# Episode 13 - GenX Speaks Series - Nicole's Story

- Podcast: GenX Adulting Podcast
- Published: 2024-12-31T11:00:00.000Z
- Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/16360764-episode-13-genx-speaks-series-nicole-s-story.mp3
- Page: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/transcripts/podcasts/genx-adulting-podcast/episodes/episode-13
- Source: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/episodes/genxadultingpodcastepisode13.html
- People: Brian Barker (host), Nicole Barker (host), Nicole (guest)
- Topics: GenX Speaks

## Summary

In this episode of the GenX Speaks series, Nicole shares her life story, reflecting on her upbringing, family dynamics, and the impact of her parents' divorce. She discusses her experiences with trauma, mental health, and the journey of finding her voice, while also emphasizing the importance of connection and understanding in navigating life's challenges.

## Key takeaways

- Nicole's upbringing was marked by her parents' tumultuous marriage and divorce.
- She experienced trauma from a young age, influencing her mental health and relationships.
- Nicole emphasizes the importance of sharing personal stories to foster connection and understanding.
- Her experiences shaped her desire to create a stable family environment for her children.
- Nicole's journey includes navigating the complexities of her relationships with her parents and step-parents.
- She reflects on the impact of her father's absence and the significance of father-daughter relationships.
- Nicole advocates for the importance of discussing the emotional weight of decisions like abortion.

## FAQ

### What is the GenX Speaks series about?

The GenX Speaks series features interviews with GenXers sharing their life stories, aiming to give a voice to a generation known for being private about their experiences.

### How did Nicole's childhood affect her adult life?

Nicole's childhood experiences, including her parents' divorce and trauma, significantly influenced her mental health, relationships, and parenting style.

### What does Nicole say about the importance of sharing personal stories?

Nicole believes that sharing personal stories can help others feel seen and heard, fostering connection and understanding among individuals.

### What are some challenges Nicole faced growing up?

Nicole faced challenges such as her parents' divorce, feelings of abandonment, and navigating complex family dynamics, which impacted her self-identity and relationships.

### What is Nicole's perspective on abortion?

Nicole shares that while she supports a woman's right to choose, she emphasizes that abortion is a serious decision that can have lasting emotional effects.


## Referenced links

- [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR7M39ntR5g)
- [Listen on Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-13-genx-speaks-series-nicoles-story/id1764838823?i=1000682225636)
- [Listen on Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/4BG4zZGT2wDC0ZF4gAOgFZ)
- [Listen on Buzzsprout](https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/16360764-episode-13-genx-speaks-series-nicole-s-story)

## Transcript

[Music]
Welcome to GenX Adulting.
We took a little bit of a break between
Thanksgiving and
Christmas as a lot of people do.
And we were busy with all the holiday
preparation, so we're back at it.
And today is going to be the first in our
series of GenX Speaks,
where we interview different GenXers
about their life story.
We also have the Gen Z
and the Boomer Speaks?
Well, no, we have the
Gen Z women's series.
Okay.
And then we have the Boomer series.
Okay.
And GenX Speaks is called that because
typically GenX has been known to not
share much about their life.
We're stay to ourselves, you know, don't
bother others, don't get involved in
things, live our lives,
and help if needed, but we kind of mind
our business and we're not
really out there sharing.
So this gives a platform to GenXers to
actually share maybe for the first time
ever their life story.
And today I think we're going right in,
right? Right in on you.
Yes, I'm going to be the
first in the GenX Speaks series.
We're going to, I'm
going to share my life story.
All right.
And I will say that it would be helpful
to the listener if they listen to the
episode that's before this one,
which is my mom's episode.
So I would either listen to that episode
before you listen to this episode,
or I would go back and listen to that
episode when you're done with this one,
because it will give so much insight into
the background of
what I'm speaking about.
It does parallel a lot of
what I am going to speak about.
And I think it would just, the listener
would find it very interesting.
So before we jump into, say, the
chronological order of your life,
have you thought
about that episode a bit?
And has it helped drive to want to go
down this path or what are your thoughts
on that whole episode?
Well, reflecting on my mom's episode, I
have so much admiration
for her and what she shared,
especially for the boomers.
They're not.
They don't talk a lot about, they don't
go and get into the deep layers.
Yeah.
They stay very surface
because that's their generation.
That's how they were raised.
And again, mental health
wasn't really discussed for them.
Therapy wasn't a big thing, but it
doesn't come naturally to them to dig
down into the layers.
So I really commend my mom for doing that
because she went really deep.
She shared a lot of intimate things that
happened in her life.
I found it very riveting.
And so I'm very grateful
to her for sharing that.
As far as did it trigger
me to want to share my life?
I think it was kind of like, you know
what, she did it so I
should be able to do it too.
You know, if she was brave enough to
share her story, then I should also be
brave enough as well.
But it does take courage to share stuff,
especially when it's my background.
There's going to be some pretty crazy
things that y'all are about to hear.
And so it takes some
courage to put that out there.
And my motivation behind it is that I
think that there's going to be others
that will be able to
relate to some of what I share.
And as always, I hope it helps make even
if it's one person not feel so alone in
either what they went
through in their childhood
or what they're currently going through.
So everything we share is to connect
people so people feel seen, whether
you're a listener or
whether you're a guest.
Seen and heard.
And I also try to tell, especially our
daughter, we actually just were having a
conversation about sticking up for
yourself and maybe your past self.
And so for me, this is honoring my past
self and especially the
child that I that I was.
You know, I feel that she deserves for
her story to be told,
if that makes sense.
Who's your mom's or my
my child, my inner child.
Oh, you're okay.
Yeah. Yeah. The child that I was.
Yeah. You know, I think that, you know,
she deserves a voice.
Yeah. All right. So let's get into it.
So when and where were
you born and your parents?
Well, again, so a lot of my parents stuff
you will hear if you go and
listen to my mom's episode.
But I was born in 1971.
I was born in Pontiac, Michigan.
My parents met in Kansas City when my dad
was in medical school and my
mom was a flight attendant.
He's Armenian.
My mom is white as white as white.
I think she's German.
She's blonde, blue eyed
and my dad's very dark.
They got married in Michigan in Dearborn,
I believe they started their family and
their first baby died.
She only lived, I think I
thought it was 12 hours.
But if I think back to my mom's episode,
I think she said it was either 24 or 48.
I can't remember. But she was basically
born without a completed school.
I was her neural tube, I think.
Now they'd call it neural tube defect.
But other things were going on.
So she was born March 10th.
And then I was actually born exactly a
year later on March 10th.
So and I was fine.
I was healthy.
And then 11 months later,
my sister Mary Beth was born.
And she also had mental
and physical disabilities.
She was an encephalic.
She basically wasn't expected to live.
They did a surgery where they did have to
remove part of her brain.
And I don't think that anyone thought she
was going to make it.
And she did.
But her quality of life,
there's really nothing there.
I mean, it's like almost like a baby and
the mind of a baby in an
adult body at this point.
Ironically, she's healthy as a horse.
But so I would say the first baby was the
beginning of my
parents' marriage cracking.
And then I was born and there was hope.
And then Mary Beth was the nail in the
coffin of the marriage
is not going to survive.
I think at the time it was assumed that
the issue was with my mom.
And my mom did end up while they were in
this process of the
marriage kind of falling apart,
and she did have an abortion
because of the utter trauma.
Because I remember this at all happened
before she was even, I think,
24 years old or 25 years old.
So there was a lot going on.
And so when I think back to my
childhood and how it started,
I would say I started in fight or flight
probably one, one and a half,
because when they brought Mary Beth home,
the trauma would have
been in the home, right?
And then the downfall of the marriage
would have been in the home.
So even when you're little, you're still
absorbing that energy of what's going on
between your parents.
If there's a child that's needing extra
care and all that, your mom is still in.
And she's in a state of trauma and the
child is going to absorb that.
My mom was miraculous
and did the best she could.
So she didn't do anything wrong.
It's just that it's a
result of the circumstances.
So well, I chuckled just because that's
so insane in some respects.
And that we can talk
in those terms today.
But back then there was no concept of
your child's experiencing trauma because
your marriage is falling apart.
There's tension, right? Right. Just
wasn't acknowledged. No.
And the world's advanced enough to where
you can talk to it, talk about it in
those terms, but it wasn't like that.
You've come to that discovery, I guess.
And we'll kind of get
there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No.
Yeah. Especially back in
1971, 72, 73. Absolutely not.
There was none of that. Yeah. So they
ended up getting divorced.
Before the divorce, my mom had found a
place to take care of Mary Beth because
she needed 24 hour care around the clock.
And so they found a really great place.
My dad was always strong about he would
never put her in an
institution or anything.
It was a it was a safe,
good place, good quality place.
So Mary Beth went there and my mom took
me and moved back to Oregon where I'm
from, where my mom's from, I should say.
She went back to Portland where she's
from, where her side of the family is.
And we I think for those few years, from
the time I was probably two and a half to
five, maybe, I think my mom was in
complete survival mode.
I do think she had a nervous breakdown
during those years because there's parts
of those years she can't remember.
Just for those couple of years, I think
it was she was obviously traumatized.
Yeah. And thankfully, my Annie Judy and
my Uncle Doug got her through that.
Well, traumatized in a fight for survival
as a single mom. Yeah.
In a time and period where being a single
mom, I'm not saying it's easy today.
I'm definitely not saying that. Right.
But there's probably more resources.
There's more understanding. There's more
of a system around supporting that.
But when you guys are doing it, I don't
think those institutions existed.
Not like they do now. No, not at all. So
we had family and
that's who my mom relied on.
And they were wonderful. And I spent a
lot of my time with my
cousins, Wendy and Jason.
And so that was the survival period. And
then during that time when my mom and I
were kind of my mom was trying to pull
her herself together.
My dad married my
stepmom. So they got divorced.
My dad married my stepmom pretty much
right away, I believe.
Do you have memories of
feeling like you were surviving too?
Or are you really more defining probably
the experience your mom was having?
Because I don't have thoughts of
surviving as a kid. But did you was that
part of your psyche or existence?
I think I was very young that, like I
said, I think I was in fight or flight.
But I don't I can't consciously tell you
at that those at the two and a half to
five year mark, I can't consciously tell
you of anything specifically traumatic,
except there's a feeling of stress.
Like when I think I feel the stress, I
can't tell you what it is. So I just
think it was a feeling of stress.
I saw my dad sporadically during those
years. I think he came out maybe once and
then my mom, I think, would fly back to
Michigan to bring me to see him.
And she mentioned that.
Yes, she would. We would go back still
during this time when
she's trying to pull together.
She's also still having to go back to the
place of where the trauma
happened so my dad can see me.
So it's almost like she probably would
take two steps forward in her life and
then two or three steps back repeatedly
for those couple of years.
What's interesting is when you've told me
your background over the years and
different stories, it was
you would fly back by yourself.
No, no, we're not there yet. No, I know.
I don't think until she brought it up.
I don't know if that was was that part of
your memories? Was that news to you or
did you remember that?
No, I mean, I knew I kind of knew we must
have gone back because it's not like he
wouldn't have not seen me
for two years or whatever.
So I think I knew theoretically we must
have done that. I don't remember flying
with her, but she obviously was doing it.
So think about the state she must have
been in flying to Michigan, you know, and
I'm sure when we were there,
she probably saw Mary Beth.
Yeah, she mentioned she did. Right. Yeah.
So it's in his sisters and cousins or
whatever his side of the family, which
was what I found
interesting when she talked about it.
And you'd mentioned it before, but she's
it's the Armenian culture is very strong.
She was not part of it.
So she was part of it. And then you guys
left and then she'd go back into it. And
I don't know if she was.
She just wasn't part of it. Well, I think
there was there was so much trauma.
You know, think about it. There's trauma
for the whole family, right? There was
probably trauma when Mary
when the first baby was born.
That's your first one losing a child is
utterly and horribly traumatic.
So my grandparents had to go through
that. Yeah. My dad's
sisters and brother. Yeah.
His aunt, you know, everyone had to go
through that. So then I'm born. So
everyone had hope again,
not just my parents. Right.
And yes, in the Armenian culture,
especially children are you know, you get
married, you have children.
That's it's very much celebrated. It's a
it's a value. It's a wonderful value. But
and then when Mary Beth was born, you
know, I think that just was so
heartbreaking for the whole family.
Took the air out of the balloon.
Everything. And especially for them
knowing my dad had to go through that.
I think at the time, you know, it was
thought that it was probably an issue
with my mom. So I'm sure her going back,
you know, you've not you're not I don't
think they ostracized her at all.
They always were good to her and loved
her. But who knows what was going on
during that time? You know what I mean?
So she was constantly
probably reopening a wound. Yeah.
Yeah. Keep in mind, like I said, my
parents got divorced and he married my
stepmom. Yeah. So she's going back and
he's starting a new life
with someone else. Right.
And we didn't really touch on that
because, you know, she that wasn't her
story to tell. But
that was going on. Right.
Well, when he married my stepmom, my mom
had a son from her first marriage who I
think was like one when we're one and a
half or something when
my dad entered his life.
So he is he my dad is his dad. Yeah. And
they're very, you know, like I think he
might have ended up adopting him. But so
she had her son from her first marriage.
And then my dad and her had a child who
was born mentally and physically
disabled. Yeah. And Andrea. So I think
for my dad, then he knew it wasn't my
mom. Yeah. And I think for him, it
probably destroyed him. Right.
So how do you come back from something
like that? Yeah. I don't know. And I
don't think you ever come back with some
from something like that. And even though
he was older than my mom, he was like
almost five years older than my mom. He
was still young. Yeah.
He was in his late 20s, early 30s when
this was going on. So he was still a very
young man. So it warped him to it warped
my mom. It warped him. And I'm sure it
warped my stepmom. Right. Because she
probably thought she's about
to have this glorious life.
And she loved him and he's a doctor and
things are gonna be wonderful. And then
this happened. So everyone got thrown for
a loop. So that was going on. They ended
up divorcing. And I think there's very
few marriages that survived stuff like
that. But once I hit five, I was able to
fly back alone to see him. And he would
fly me back first class. And back then,
first class, you got a tray with food.
And you even got these little crystal.
See, I remember this. I remember this. I
got to go on first. They would assign a
flight attendant to me. She was like
there. She had to keep track of me. Yeah.
And they would make sure I was I think it
was always in bulkhead, which is the very
first row. And the little crystal salt
and pepper shakers. I would have them on
my tray flying out to Michigan and back.
And I took them. So my
mom had quite the collage.
And I would give them to my mom. And I
just remember that. But so I would go see
him. And I think I would stay in Michigan
for maybe three weeks. I'm not sure my
mom would know more, but at least three
weeks. And so he's divorced. So I spent
all that time with my aunts. And I would
bounce between aunts, his two sisters and
then his aunt. And I got to spend all that time with my aunt.
And I got to spend all that time with my
cousins, which I loved. So to me, it was
fun. You know, I was excited to go out
there because I got to hang out with my
cousins. And I got I had so much fun with
them. My aunt, Chris, had a pool. My
aunt, Doe, had a pool. My aunt, Diana,
belonged to a like a pool club. And they
would bring me. Thank God for them. Like
they raised me when I was there. And they
were wonderful to me. And my aunt Izzy,
my dad's aunt, my aunt Izzy would
take care of me. So I was close to all of
these cousins and all of my aunts and
uncles. And I would spend time with my
grandfather, my grandpa, Barkie. And he
ended up remarrying. And I spent time
with both of them. I didn't know that.
Yeah. And I would spend I wouldn't spend
the night with my great grandparents, my
Armenian great grandparents, which would
have been my grandma, Satinek's parents.
But I would go and spend the day with
them. Why did he remarry? Did your
grandmother pass away?
Oh, yeah, my grandma passed away when I
was. Oh, I'm going to say it wrong. I
think I was six. So you were young. I was
young. And that was a blow to the whole
family and to my dad. It was a blow. But
my grandpa did not remarry for a very
long time. Like this was I was much
older. He didn't
remarry for a very long time.
So and then also my dad was an ER doc. So
I I was also when he had me, I was at the
hospital. So all of these nurses and
administrators would take care of me. And
they were wonderful. Every day, you know,
they doted on me. Everyone was wonderful
to me. I was very fortunate during that
time to be surrounded by such good people
between family and my dad's.
The people he worked with. I was very
fortunate. And I think my dad lived in an
apartment or something. So those first
years, like five, six, that that feels
very positive back in Michigan. And then
I also would sometimes spend time
eventually at my stepmom's house.
I would spend a few nights there with my
stepbrother and Andrea.
And
that those memories aren't as good. Yeah,
you know, and so I think if I think back
to that, I think what happened is, let's
say, as anyone, there may be some
insecurities or resentments or whatever
about a first marriage, a first life,
right? And the children that result from
that, maybe there's some insecurities. I
don't necessarily think my dad helped
calm that down. You know, I don't think
he didn't necessarily make everything
okay all the time. Right? I don't think
yeah, right. I don't think so. And I have
I think he had a lot of moving parts in
his life. And I don't think he wanted
those moving parts to intersect.
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
And so when you don't want that to
happen, sometimes you play
people against each other.
Yeah. And so if somebody's feeling like
you, I don't know, I don't know if there
was manipulation going on
or not. But I didn't think
do you think it was a playing people
against each other or more? I have these
worlds I don't want to intersect. So I'm
just gonna leave out some details.
Just kind of, I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know, because I, I never felt
totally welcome. And, um, and I know
things were, you know, said to me, I
think he had a lot going on. My dad, you
know, I think my dad had some ladies. You
know, I had thinking a few different
ladies and he didn't necessarily want.
Um, he didn't want those ladies to
communicate with each other about that.
If he's got various ladies that he
doesn't want to communicating. And
meanwhile, his wife is taking care of the
stepdaughter, his ex wife, I think at the
time, whatever that is. There's some
resentment, I think.
Yes. You know, oh, absolutely. That's
what I mean. I think who knows. I don't
know what was being said to her. Yeah. I
don't know what was being said to my
stepbrother. And I know
what was being said to me.
And it wasn't always
nice about them. So I,
Well, plus they had their own issues from
divorce, not having a relationship with
the original real father. Right. Right.
Right. Right. So there's, that's already.
So I'm walking into, you know, sometimes
it felt like a pressure cooker. And then
I also, you know, when I was born, my dad
did, he did make an effort as far as
making me feel like I was the main girl
in his life. Just like you do with Kaya.
Like his daughter has, you know, love me,
love me, love me when he would send me
cards or we would talk on the phone.
And so when you feel that way and you
probably, you know, who knows when I was
younger, I probably came
off as, I don't know, maybe.
Your daddy's girl.
Daddy's girl. Right. Because I, special.
Because I didn't know any different. So
maybe that came off wrong. When I, when
I'm walking into that
home, if that makes sense, you know, you
leave and you come back and when you come
back, you're special. Right. I'm your
special. Right. Jealousy would absolutely
happen. Right. Right. Just a natural
thing. I think that's what happened. And
I don't think my dad would have been the
best at managing that. So, and maybe at
times, making it worse. So that was going
on. I didn't spend, when I was really
young, I didn't spend as ton of time
there. That was more as I got a little
older. But, so while that's,
that was going on in Michigan. My mom
decided to move to Northern California.
She needed a change and she had friends
down there. So we moved to Northern
California. So, to like the Sunnyvale
area. And that was when she really went
back to work, which is when women, the
mid seventies, women were really starting
to enter the workforce. And it's where
institutionalized daycare started really
becoming prominent. Like it wasn't just
some lady down the street.
That's our generation. Yeah. Yeah. So. We
are the generation where daycare became
institutionalized and we're the first
ones to go through it. Right. So I was
one, I was one, one of those kids. Right.
Yeah. And so I would go to preschool and
then from there go to aftercare. They
call it now. Then I don't know what they
called it. And then I would go to
kindergarten and I'd go to the daycare
section. It was all in the same building.
But I was one of the last ones to always
get picked up. And it's
not at fault to my mom's. It was just her
hours, but it sucked. It was the worst
because I would, were you again? So this
would have been preschool through
kindergarten. Okay. So four or five or
three, four or five is probably like
five, six. Yeah. Like four, five, six. I
think we, we, we were starting with, we
were down there. So, um, I remember
standing holding onto the cyclone fence,
watching the parking lot. It's like a
puppy dog. I know. Waiting for her yellow
pacer. Um, probably only
Gen X knows what that is.
Um, to come into the parking lot. And I
can still remember the sounds of when
you're the, one of the last kids getting
picked up. Cause you go from noise of
children playing. And then all of a
sudden the noise is it's quiet. It's
like, it's quieter. It's like, it's
quieter. And it's like you and like two
other kids. And then the people that work
there start to pack everything up and put
everything away. It's an eerie feeling.
You know, it's funny. I'm
picturing some Hollywood movie.
Where that's just happened. I can picture
it. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Yeah. No, it goes
from your plane. All of a sudden all your
friends got picked up and you're like,
Oh, where's my mom? So, um, that, that
was not enjoyable at all. And again, no
fault to my mom. It's just was how it was
like she was a single mom. My dad was in
Michigan. We were in California. It's
just how it was. I think, I think though,
to your point, how it was, that's
probably the essence of
this episode in some ways in terms of
other people relating, because I
guarantee you there's other people who
went through that and really haven't
touched on it or talked about it or
acknowledged it. Maybe. Yeah. Because
I'll tell you, it's one of them. It was
one of the motivators to why I stayed
home and I didn't go to work. Yeah. Yeah.
I have a lot of reasons for why I stayed
home and didn't go to work and I raised
my kids. And a lot of it is healing my
own trauma. Well, not wanting your kids
to go through the problem.
Same experience. 100%. Yeah. That sounded
selfish, but no, I didn't want them to go
through the same thing. So anyways, uh,
so then, then she met this guy, she did
date off and on. We had some, some crazy
times. Oh yeah. She talks about it in the
other episode, but one of the guys tried
to burn our house down and threw rocks
through our window. It was fun. So
anyways, she ended up meeting, um, this
guy who Rob, who became my first stepdad.
They were living together and
my dad said that he didn't want me in a
house where she's living with a guy.
Right. So she married him. So that's such
a classic part of that. So they got
married down in the courthouse, I think
in Sunnyvale. I was in the wedding. Well,
it was at the courthouse. It was just
like me, I think. He was really nice. My
memories of him are he was really nice.
He drove a Volkswagen bus. He had kind of
like this salt and pepper
afro, his hair and a beard. Um,
he, he was just like this nice guy. Thank
God. California white socks with stripes.
I don't know about that, but so late
seventies, Northern California Bay area
vibe. Yeah. There was only like one thing
I remember that was inappropriate, but I
don't think it was meant that way. But
nowadays it would be a hundred percent
viewed wrong is I think I was in first or
second grade and I would
shower with him. Yeah. That's right.
That's not appropriate. And it wasn't
regularly, but randomly I would take
showers with him. Nothing happened. You
know, nothing happened, but it's not
appropriate. And I don't know if that's
that Northern California vibe or if it
wasn't appropriate and just didn't go
further past that. I don't know. Right.
But that was, that's one thing I look
back on. That's one of those things
you're like, okay, that's not normal. But I think it was appropriate.
But nothing happened other than that. And
it was not regularly. So I would say out
of that whole time, oh my gosh, one Gen X
thing people could relate to is there was
a, um, I might've already talked about
this in another episode, but there was
like a baseball diamond. That was, I
don't know how far of a walk. It felt
like a long time. Cause I was in like
first grade, but I would walk to it and I
would talk to the lady that worked the
vending, like where you sold candy for
it was probably not just like for
baseball games. It was probably like a
rec park center. Yeah. That probably was
open all the time. And, um, she said, if
I picked up litter, she'd give me free
candy. I think I was six or seven. Like I
was six or seven because we weren't there
when I was eight and I would spend time
picking up litter and hand it in and I'd
get free candy. And then I'd walk home
and I, it was, I would go near, I would
go along a relatively busy road. Cause I
remember walking down the neighborhood
road and then getting on a busy road.
Like the sidewalk along a busy road.
That's so Gen X that would not happen
now. I think, isn't that when kids
started showing up on milk cartons? Cause
they were missing. Not yet. I think
that's more like 1980 that
started or, but, um, yeah.
Like, but I mean, there was a re back
then that's how it was. Yeah. Yeah. I
remember going into my neighbor's house
and talking to her just the night
neighbor, the lady, and
she'd give me cookies.
That's hilarious. And I would just hang
out with her and come back. You know, we,
we interacted with neighbors like that
when I was a kid. Yeah. It's just, I
don't know. It
definitely doesn't happen now.
We would never have let our six or seven
year old go into the neighbor's adult.
What the hell's going on over there?
You know, but the things that we were
allowed to do because there was no fear
built in because people didn't know yet
it was going on.
People didn't know anyways.
Well, the milk cartons hadn't come out
yet to tell everybody. Yeah. To let
everybody know, Hey, this is going on.
So, um, no, I think back to those times.
I'm like, wow, there's some risky
behavior there, but it wasn't just me. I
know other Gen Xers had
the similar experiences.
I remember being in like those big water
pipes collecting tadpoles and just on my
own, you know, just you're on your own
and then just showing
back, back up at home.
I think that's a universal thing. You
know, you see the memes. We all talk
about how we knew we had to go home
because the streetlights are coming on.
Yeah. That's not nothing too crazy. Yeah.
It's nothing too crazy.
So, um, while that was going on where
she's married to my first stepdad, we're
living in Northern California, doing the
Northern California life. I would still
go back every other Christmas and then
every summer to Michigan.
And at this point, I was still spending
time with my aunts and my cousins and
sometimes with my stepmom, with my great
grandparents and all that. But then my
dad also was dating somebody.
And she was wonderful. I have wonderful
memories with her. But what I didn't
totally realize was that he also was
still, I think, involved with my stepmom.
And so, and I'm young.
I'm like seven. Yeah. And,
And I think still trying to get with your
mom when he would see her, right?
I believe maybe. Yeah. But he didn't, he
didn't really see her that much during
that time because she was
married. So, yeah, I know.
But I still think they did see each other
a ton. But when they did, yes, I'm sure.
Yes. So, um, I have memories of spending
time with his girlfriend and then we
would leave and he, on the way to going
to my stepmom's house, he would say, you
can't talk about what we just, where
would you, we just
were and who we were with.
Yeah. And so that's where I learned about
like flying and stuff. Like, yeah, that I
didn't totally
understand that until then.
How old were you again?
I think I want to say I was seven, six
and seven when that was going on. Well,
that was the beginning of that. Then, you
know, I, as I got older, I, I got really
good at it. But, um,
one time I messed up.
Oh, really?
Did.
I don't know if you've told me that.
I don't know if I have. We were at a
restaurant with my, with my stepmom, I
believe, or maybe with the girlfriend. We
were with one of them. I can't remember
now who it was. And I said something
about what we had done with not
necessarily literally with the other
person, but we happen to be there.
Yeah. And whoever the woman was, it was
either the girlfriend or my stepmom got
mad. And, um, and then he pulled me out
of the restaurant and
like laid into me for,
I think I do remember
you telling me about that.
For spilling the beans.
I think so. Yeah.
Yeah. Which it was not intentional.
It was just a kid, you know, so I
remember that. So that was, that was a
bit traumatic and
just, you know, learning.
Was that your, the first time you think
he ever say disciplined you or like,
got upset with me.
That was the first time he got upset with
me that I can remember. Yeah. And it was
more probably out of total frustration
because he knew he now had a whole
situation deal with. So
like he never punished me.
Yeah.
But, um, so then, I mean, I
got good at it after that.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like I shut my mouth and, uh, it's crazy.
It's crazy, right?
So that's going on.
And then, um, after living in Sunnyvale,
Northern California for a couple of
years, my mom wanted to
move back up to Portland.
Needed to change.
Needed to change.
And so we moved up back up.
My stepdad came up with us
and we moved to lower Oregon.
I was in third grade
starting another school.
There's a pattern of
moving and starting schools.
It's the starts and, um,
they ended up getting divorced.
And, but that's the beginning of my latch
key life because my mom was working, he
was working and then they got divorced.
But, um, I would, I
wasn't going to daycare.
I was going home.
What are you, what'd you say?
This is third grade.
So eight, eight, nine. Yeah.
And, um, I liked that
because I did not like daycare.
Oh, I loved having my key.
Yeah.
I would, I guess I think I would get off
the bus and I'd let
myself into the house.
And that's when I remember picking up the
house, um, you know, doing the dishes,
setting up the coffee for the next day.
You know, if a plant needed water,
nothing, nothing, not heavy cleaning, but
just, you know, picking things up.
If I had any homework, which back then, I
don't even remember us having homework in
third grade, but doing it.
And then I would go out and I would play
with my friends until my mom came home.
And so that was my, the beginning of my
latch key kid experience.
And that was very,
very normal, very normal.
I had heard of the term latch key, but I
never connected the dots.
It was, you had a key
because no one was home.
Right.
So you could open the
door and let yourself.
Yeah.
And I think, I think I kept mine in my
backpack, but you could
wear it around your neck too.
Yeah.
And I remember the rule was I always
called my dad when I walked
in the door, I locked the door.
So I call him at work,
let him know I'm home.
I call my mom.
So they knew it, you know, they were, I
was in touch with both my parents.
Yeah.
Um, but I was, I had freedom.
Like I could go out in the neighborhood
and play with, you know, no one home.
And, um, and then, uh, so they got
divorced and, um, so I finished out my
third grade year there.
And then we moved to Beaverton to another
house, to another school.
And that would have been fourth grade and
it was just her and I.
And that then, so then I was kind of
bouncing between Michigan and Oregon.
Same life going on in Michigan.
It's very consistent bouncing between the
aunts, the cousins, whoever
my dad was seeing, my stepmom.
Um, and then it was just my mom and I, we
were back to just the two of us again.
And that was, you know, we were the two
of us and she got married.
Now we're back to the two of us.
And, um, I remember in sixth grade, I
had, uh, one of my most
favorite teachers, Mr.
Hausmann, he was so great because he let
you play music in the classroom.
So I would bring my 45s and I wasn't like
the DJ of the class, I would say, but I
think I'm the one that always brought the
most records and we would play them.
And, um, he was great.
And him and my mom
actually went on a couple of days.
She was a wild one.
Wait, my, my, our teacher was Mr.
Spice, our fifth grade teacher, Mr.
Spice would let us bring in records.
Yeah, it's cool.
Yeah.
I think there should be music in every
classroom, even if it's just chill music.
Just, you know, that's my buddy and I
were into ACDC at the time.
So we'd bring the ACDC in
and play big balls, right?
And just to get things
stirred up as immature kids.
But that's where I get
introduced to the Beatles.
There were two kids
who loved the Beatles.
We'd have to trade back and forth and
they'd bring in the Beatles.
No, it's, it's great.
I think, yeah, I think it's, I mean,
well, you and I are huge music people,
but, and then she met, um, this guy named
Greg and, um, dated him for a while and
she ended up marrying him.
That was my second stepdad.
And I want to say they got married when I
was in eighth grade because my dad, oh,
I've left a part out.
So in between that sixth and eighth grade
year timeframe for me, middle school,
middle school, so fun.
This happened during middle school.
It's a great time of every child's life.
Um, is my dad actually had a surrogate.
Yeah.
And, um, she had my sister and that's
when he actually lived
in Northern Michigan.
He had the coolest house.
Oh my gosh.
Um, right on the
water and it was amazing.
And, um, he, it was just him and Anna
and, um, there was a nanny and he, I
think he, I think he was the happiest
when he was up North.
Like, I think if he could have lived the
rest of his life up North, that's where
he would have stayed.
He was truly the most at
peace and just, he had a boat.
Yeah.
And, um, looking at the map behind you,
but I think he was on
Lake Michigan, right?
No.
Burt Lake, Burt Lake,
Burt Lake, Burt Lake.
And he just, he had a cool
community of friends up there.
He worked for a great hospital up there.
I see, you know, get away
probably from, he loved it.
He loved it.
He would still go down to see his dad and
my grandpa and see family, but he loved
up North, you know, he
just, I remember that.
And I was really young.
It's beautiful.
Oh my gosh.
Up North is amazing.
So I would say that was probably one of
his happiest times of his life.
If I, just from my perspective as his
daughter in that, that time.
So, um, and Anna was there.
And, um, so he had, so I
had my sister and then,
What's the, uh, what's the
age difference between you guys?
Trying to remember.
So I think when she was born,
um, maybe I was in sixth grade.
So I don't know what
that's like 11, 12 or something.
Sounds about right.
Cause I feel like when I met her and
Alexis, they were pretty little kids.
Oh yeah.
We just got out of college and they were
pretty, pretty cool.
So I think she was, yeah.
And she, she's sweetest baby.
So, um, so that happened.
And then my mom's dating this new guy.
So I knew sister, new guy.
Um, and then it all came to a culmination
for me in eighth grade when
my dad remarried my
stepmom and my mom married Greg.
So I believe there was
two weddings that year.
That's awesome.
And I was a bolt.
Yeah.
Um, now you could look at
that one of two ways, right?
It's like, that's kind of messed up and
unique, or it's like, I got to go to two
weddings to be the
flower girl in two weddings.
I wasn't in the wedding.
Well, my mom married Greg in our house.
It was, it was fine.
It was like a family party.
It was fine.
I think a justice of the
peace came to the house.
It was weird.
I mean, come on, but it was fine.
And he had a, uh, two
children who were close to my age.
And then, um, my dad and my
stepmom remarried in Vegas.
And I can't remember if the chapel was in
the hotel we were staying at
or if we went to a chapel.
So you actually went to it.
Oh yeah.
I was there.
Um, so it w so I can't remember though.
If the chapel was in the hotel or if we
went to a chapel, I don't remember.
So then they remarried.
Um, and then they had
my, my other sister.
So then, then life
just kind of hummed along.
And so then when I would visit Michigan,
I would visit their home.
So what now, when I would go back to
Michigan, I would go,
they had a beautiful
home and I would spend time there.
And, um, and again, I think that
especially during those middle school
years, you know, there was just, I had
been in fight and flight for so long.
And, um, I had gone through a lot of
trauma, a lot of change, and I had such a
severe abandonment complex because of not
having my dad in my life.
Cause it was so sporadic, you know, not
just your dad, but it gets compounded
going to Northern California and having
husband number two, and then moving back
and having husband number three, I think.
Right.
Right.
You get to know these people and it's
like, Oh, it's my dad, my stepdad.
You're, you're my new dad.
Right.
Now he's gone.
Well then, Oh, you're the new dad.
Right.
Now he's gone.
Right.
So it's a little, so
there's a lot of, yeah.
Yeah.
No, and I think my, my mom
was trying to create a family.
Yeah.
That was her ultimate goal.
Right.
Um, but my dad and I were very close and
yet we weren't right.
So he was never, I think I can only think
of three instances where I was with both
my parents together and my child.
What was our wedding?
I'm talking about my
childhood, maybe two in my childhood.
Like he came to one softball practice
when he was in town and I remember
being a ditter with them.
And I remember how weird it was for me to
say I was with my mom and dad,
because that never came out of my mouth.
I never said I was with my mom and dad.
I think those two times
I was able to say that.
And I remember loving
being able to say that.
And I remember being just so fascinated
by families where the parents were
married and they had this great life and
everyone, you know, most of the kids I
knew his parents were still married.
Divorce was just starting.
It's like, um, well, we're, we are the
beginning of that generation.
Right.
It was just starting this journey.
Right.
So most kids, I was like, my mom, you
know, was one of the few single moms
when I was in elementary school.
Like she was not invited to chaperone
dances or, you know, she wasn't really in
cause she was a single mom and all that.
So that stigma, but like, I never felt,
um, like I belonged to something.
Like I didn't totally belong with my
friends cause all their, they came from
normal families and their parents were
married and they all seemed healthy and
okay.
And I remember kind of observing them
growing up thinking, well, like you're
all fine, like you don't have any worries
where I was constantly in a state of
worry and anxiety, and I could never
understand how my peers were just okay
with life and humming along when every
day for me, it was a utter struggle
for survival felt like so.
And then I didn't totally feel like I
belonged in my Armenian family
because I'm half Armenian and I'm, I was
never with them enough right as I would
start to feel, um, like,
okay, I'm getting the groove.
I'd have to go back to Oregon summer's
over like the three weeks you're here.
It was over.
So it would be wonderful.
And then I'd have to go back to Oregon.
And then I never felt I belonged in my
dad's family, you know, with my stepmom
and their children, because I was from
his first marriage and his first life.
And that wasn't totally welcomed.
And there was, there was some kind of
resentment and some jealousy and for
whatever reason, you know, so I never
felt like it belonged there.
And then with my mom, of course I always
belonged with my mom, but then when
there was a man, especially my second
stepdad, he didn't totally, he had a
weird relationship with me.
He didn't, he was kind of jealous of me
and he liked it
better when I was visiting
my dad, cause they could do their thing.
And then when I would come back, they'd
have to get more on a regular schedule.
So when she was married to him, I didn't
totally feel like I
belonged in that family.
Do you, you've been saying all this as a
young kid or the, from the perspective
or of a young kid, which you were, it's,
it's a little, it's nutty.
I don't know what the right word is.
It's not nutty, but do you can, as an
adult, can you rationalize it now where
all these moving parts kind of makes
sense for the people?
It wasn't like, Oh, we don't want Nicole
with us or this or that, but
the, what made me think of this is if
you're the stepdad
and your mom, they have
a relationship, you're just in the way in
terms of where this guy's mentality is.
Whereas your mom, you're you
and your mom, you're tight.
She's you're hers, but for him, your
competition right elsewhere, your
competition, but you can rationalize it
now, but it made no sense.
Then I would assume.
I never felt accepted.
I never felt accepted and I never had a
sense of self because I didn't
know where I came from really.
So like when I was with my peers, I would
kind of identify with them.
Like that's how I would find my sense of
self because I didn't
have any idea who I was.
So I would kind of adjust
myself to my surroundings.
So when I was in Michigan with my
cousins, you know, I
would adjust to that life.
And then when I was with my stepmom and
my dad and their family, I was, I would
be on the defensive, I would be on high
alert, but I would adjust.
I had different personalities depending
on which world I was in.
I had many different worlds and none of
them I felt accepted in.
And this isn't to say, oh, everybody
should feel sorry for me.
I'm just stating, I'm just
saying this is how I felt.
And I'm not saying everyone was horrible,
but I'm saying this is how I felt.
Do you know what's interesting is I think
people can relate to that.
Like I can, and I have a
quote unquote normal, right?
My parents were together and had a big
family, but I think as kids
we're all exposed to weird things.
Um, I had my aunts in Jersey city and you
know, they're crazy aunts and it was
uncomfortable and
weird, but it was still okay.
I had my family in West
Virginia who I loved to death.
It's just different though.
Right there in West Virginia.
I was in New Jersey.
So it's, it's interesting.
It's, but it's, I always had a home base.
Because you mean to a
home base type of thing.
Yeah.
You weren't resented.
You were always accepted.
Yeah.
And celebrated.
Yeah.
So I don't remember ever feeling
celebrated in my entire childhood.
Yeah.
Ever.
That's interesting.
Um, now I'm not saying that that effort
wasn't put in my mom.
I mean, we celebrated my birth.
I don't mean like literally like we
celebrate my birthday and I got
wonderful gifts for Christmas.
And, um, just nothing was settled.
I was a priority.
So I was a priority and my family in
Oregon loved me and my family in Michigan
loved me, but underneath the surface, I
did not feel like I belonged anywhere.
So in a way I felt like I was
always kind of treading water.
And then I had this huge abandonment
issue with from my dad and then men in
general.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I resolved that
through having a boyfriend.
So, but I did skip over one thing.
One thing with, um, my second stepdad is
he wasn't appropriate.
He didn't touch me or anything, but he, I
remember he would kiss me on the lips,
right from the start.
And how old were you?
Uh, sixth grade.
And I remember, yeah.
And that was weird.
I eventually like when I was young enough
to, it was happening, happened before I
was old enough to stop it.
But then as I got a
little, then I stopped it.
Like I didn't go on long, but all of a
sudden I was like, uh,
yeah.
And then, um, you know, he would just, I
would catch him looking at me.
Yeah.
You've mentioned, yeah, he would look at
me, he would layer at me.
And then when he, he would have a, he had
a friend over once and he was like
flirting with me.
That's when I was in,
um, I was 15, I think then.
So I was in high school, but so he was,
there was something off about him with
that.
I mean, I can't, nothing happened, but he
also wasn't necessarily a
hundred percent of a safe space.
If I can say that.
Um, you know, like when I'd be laying
outside in the sun, like he was watching
me stuff like that.
So just inappropriate shit.
Eventually they got divorced.
Um, but what happened was
is I was boy crazy, right?
I was boy crazy from easily six grades.
I had a boyfriend then I was that girl
who was making out
with boys in sixth grade.
Um, one boy, one thing is boy crazy as I
was, I was very monogamous because I was
trying to fill that void of not having to
dad around with a consistent
relationship with
some sort of male figure.
So whether it was my sixth grade
boyfriend or my
seventh grade boyfriend or my
eighth grade boyfriend.
Um, did you have any friends who were in
the same boat as you that, you
know, that were boy crazy?
Yeah.
Like, yes, there was another girl that
was also, and when I say making out,
I'm talking about kissing, but, uh, she
was also down for that too.
And then, yeah, there were girls like
dating and middle school, um, but they
weren't obsessed like I was.
I mean, I think there was like maybe one
or two, but most girls were fine.
And that always perplexed me because I
wasn't like I was, I was trying to fill
that void or there was always that void
and I was always trying to fill it.
So, um, when I got into high school, I
actually, um, ended up dating the
nicest guy ever, thank God.
He was, he came from a normal family.
He, he had siblings,
he had great parents.
He, he was awesome.
He took me to my first
Grateful Dead concert.
He introduced me to a
lot of really great music.
A lot of our
relationship was about music.
Um, so I'm very grateful because high
school was so tumultuous because things
weren't going good with my second stepdad
and my mom and him and I weren't totally
getting along.
So my home life there was bad.
And then when I would go back to
Michigan, there was always, you know, my
stepbrother and I butted heads and that
was a nightmare at that house.
So I had no safe space at all.
And so my boyfriend became my safe space
and he was awesome, but I don't
think I was good for him.
Like we loved each other in
height for high school love.
We loved each other very much.
But he, you know, he
was dealing with damage.
He was, he was probably stable with a
stable family and he's got this
crazy wild damage goods.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Too young to deal with it.
Quite frankly.
Absolutely.
And he did it pro.
Yeah.
He, he did.
I looked back.
I've, you know, I've reflected obviously
as you unpack your trauma, it's
kind of like AA, like how those people
that are alcoholics have to go apologize
and like kind of go step by step.
When you unpack your trauma, you actually
have to go step by step.
Yeah.
You have to unpack your
childhood trauma to heal from it and
you have to go step by step.
Well, it's an interesting thing.
You're bringing up and it
came up with your mom, right?
She's probably too old to go there.
Maybe is right.
We talked about that.
You go see a therapist or
talk to someone and unpack it.
Right.
He never really did, but
you certainly have, I think.
And it may be, it's
probably a lifelong process, right?
Well, I mean, I think
that at this point I'm 53.
And I really feel like I re I probably
didn't resolve all of my trauma until.
Like four years ago, you know, maybe.
Yeah.
I mean, and I'm talking about all of it.
Yeah.
Like I resolved and we'll get to that.
I resolved a lot, but
where I am like really okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you have to remember from age one to
18 and probably through college,
I was in fight or flight.
So your body's in fight or flight.
Your mind is in fight or flight.
I had a lot of
different coping mechanisms.
One of them was dating,
like finding a boyfriend.
And then the other one
was of course drinking.
Once I did that, once I
started that, that was fun.
I didn't drink until
summer before sophomore year.
Um, and then of course, you know,
dabbling in smoking
pot, you know, and, um, and
then, uh, having an eating disorder,
which we're going to
go more in depth in a,
another episode, but I
didn't eat any disorder.
And I also, I cut, I did cut and I had,
uh, I definitely had some episodes
where I wanted to kill myself.
Like I really did want to kill myself and
I thought about how I was going to do it.
And I think at one point I even wrote a
letter, you know, yeah.
Yeah.
I just wanted it.
You're in so much pain
that you just want to release.
You don't understand that you're making a
permanent decision
for a temporary problem.
But when you have always felt that way
your whole life, it
doesn't feel temporary.
So, um, that's kind of
how I got through it.
I survived through high
school and then this pork guy.
Yeah.
Now he didn't know all
of that was going on.
It's not like I projected all of it on
him, but probably
didn't know it was all going.
You did, but you didn't.
I didn't.
I was just the way it was.
Chaos.
I was chaos and we had a great friendship
and a great
relationship and a lot of fun.
But when I was spiraling, it was, I'm
sure a nightmare for him.
And I feel, I feel horrible about that.
Um, I mean, I was a kid and I was
damaged, but I wish I
could go back and fix that,
but you can't.
So, I mean, he's great.
He's, I think he's still probably a
wonderful guy and he's has
a great life and, and thank
God, and that's wonderful.
And I actually, um, I will say when
Facebook first came around, I did
reach out to him and I did apologize.
I do remember that.
Yeah.
And, um, he, I think it took him a while
to respond because he's probably like, oh
my God, run, but he was very gracious.
He was very gracious.
So I'm, you know, so then, um, uh, then
in college, um, I
dated one kid briefly and
then I had my college boyfriend.
Even on my senior trip to Mazatlan, when
my friends were like hooking up with
different guys or meeting different guys,
I met one guy and I was with him that for
that week, like it was
very much about one person.
I was never one of these that could like,
Mike, my count, my body count is so low
because I was never one that
could like just get with guys.
I couldn't, I just couldn't do it.
I had to know them or whatever.
And even this guy in Mazatlan, like we
got to know each other
and he kept, he wrote
me letters afterwards and called me and
thought we were going
to have a relationship.
So I'm very much into that
monogamy from the very start.
And then I had my college boyfriend who
was one of your very good friends at the
time.
Um, and we were in
the, this is how we met.
We were in the same friend group and it
allowed you and I to become very good
friends.
We were that platonic good friend that we
became good friends, but I was with him
all through college.
Right.
So that feeling of abandonment and that
trying to fill that
void, um, it you one way
or another, when someone has an absentee
father, especially, that's why you should
never underestimate the value of a father
in a child's life, especially a girl's
life.
It's monumental.
It, it, it truly shapes who they become
and how stable they
are in life and, um, what
it teaches them self-respect and value.
I never felt valued.
I think, I think the dad father child
relationship, I think it's, I'll say it's
more important than the mother father or
mother child, but no, it's just me seeing
that as a dad.
I, I, I just don't, you
have to take it seriously.
It is such a monumental thing.
And because you have a biological
connection to your mother because your
mother delivered you, or if you're, you
know, either way you were in your mother.
Your mother's
boy, your mother's mother.
So the father, you it's critical.
It's so critical.
So critically.
You cannot abandon your kids.
No, you have to take an interest.
You cannot, you've got to be there.
It's so, it's so important.
Yeah.
It's, it's so it's, I just, uh, as
speaking as someone who didn't have that,
it's so vital, it helps form who you are.
And without it, you are just, you have to
figure it out for yourself.
And eventually I did.
Right.
So I continued with my coping mechanisms
through college and, um, and then, you
and I ended up together and you were the
first man in my life who saw me for truly
who I was and accepted me completely.
No matter what I did and no matter what
happened, like you love, it didn't
affect how much you love me and it didn't
affect you, you'd never let, you
never left, you never left.
Yeah.
You never, you never wanted to leave me.
I like wild, crazy, bro.
I know.
Damage goods, right?
No.
Yeah.
Damage goods.
But you know, when you, when you come
from the space that I
came from, you almost
self-sabotage things because you always
know something bad's
going to happen because
nothing ever good does that last things
are temporary that are good.
So I actually, you know, I think I've
said this before, but I
spent a good beginning
of my marriage, just like testing you in
a lot of ways of, I know you're going to
leave, so I'm, I might as well ruin this.
Like I might as well, like push, push,
push the boundaries a little bit just to
kind of see, are you
really going to stay?
Are you going to go?
You really get, there was a lot of that
abandonment shit in the beginning.
And then I remember having, you remember
that working our way through that.
Like what the fuck is going on?
That type of thing, right?
Why are you, you know, yeah.
Like, why am I acting like this?
And I remember when, when we were trying
to decide what we
were going to do after we
got married, if we were going to stay in
Portland or what we were going to do.
And I remember you saying to me, cause I
still was struggling
with stuff with my dad.
That was always such an issue.
And you said, let's move to Michigan so
you can resolve this.
Cause I said, I don't want
to project this onto our kids.
Whatever is going on with me, I don't
want to project this onto our kids.
And you said, let's move to Michigan so
you can resolve this once and for all.
And we were 23 and you were, as a 23 year
old young man, you
thought of that for me.
I mean, it was just, I look back on that
and I'm like, my God, that was
such love coming from you,
you know, just the wisdom.
No, but it's also just so giving an
unselfish and thoughtful and just, you
know, you love me enough to
do that, to move to Michigan.
I don't know anybody in Michigan.
And then we did.
And that was a very tumultuous year.
That was a crazy year.
And, um, that's when I found out also
that I had another sister, um, that I
didn't know about from my, one of my
dad's relationships in
high school and she's
amazing and, um, but it was, it was
another thing that was like, wow.
Okay.
Another change.
I don't remember it
being completely tumultuous.
At least probably not for me, right?
No, I think it was great for you.
Maybe.
No, I mean, I think we partied a lot.
We did party a lot.
No, it wasn't, I'm not saying negative,
but there were some tumultuous times.
Cause I was like living in the same place
as my dad for really the first time ever.
You know, and also he has a family and
how to fit in there and we're
married and all that.
It was, it was crazy.
Yeah, it was crazy, but it lasted a year.
Yeah.
And then, and then we were out of there.
So, and I would say that, um, I don't
know if anything was officially resolved,
but I could, I was okay after that, as
far as like putting it to rest.
I was like, okay, this is done.
I think that year allowed you to make
sense of certain things that you
hadn't made sense of yet.
And, and if it didn't fully resolve it,
at least it kind of moved it further
down a little bit, progressed a little
bit further in terms of understanding.
Yeah.
Yeah, probably.
Yeah.
I think it did help
with some understanding.
Put some things into compartmentalize
certain aspects and okay, this is how it
is and not really even about me as much
as it's just this crazy fucked up
situation I was part of.
Right.
Wasn't necessarily
personal, but it was at times.
Um, one thing I should backtrack to, one
thing I should backtrack to is, um, you
and I had been friends in
college for most of college.
Um, and so I think that by the time we
got together, I think you were definitely
safe, a safe place for me.
Cause we had had so many long talks and
that was such a foundation of our, of
relationship and you knew me pretty,
really pretty well, I
would say from that.
So it's not like we
were going in blind at all.
Like we had known each other for so long.
I think we were the only vegetarians.
So whenever I brought food to parties,
you would always eat my food.
And we would just have
these really long talks.
I mean, I know in our friend group, there
was definitely suspicion that like we had
cheated or something, um, my boyfriend,
but we absolutely had
not, there was never
any crossover of anything.
And we actually, after graduating from
college, drove around the country for
two and a half months and I think, I know
for me, that was when I knew I, that I
wanted to marry you because if you can be
in a car with someone for two and a half
months, you could definitely probably
make a life together.
But, um, I think that foundation helped.
And I think I've talked about this before
that, um, for a successful marriage
having that foundation of friendship,
because so much goes on in marriage.
You always can come
back to that friendship.
So we had that time to, to
create that, that foundation.
And I think that that helped when we
lived in Michigan for that year.
And that also helped as I was figuring
out my shit,
basically, you know, so there
was that level of respect.
Well, I think in that, in the spirit of
that, if you're really friends with
someone, you have mutual respect and a
foundation to fall back on.
Whereas if you're in this, uh, for lack
of a better word, transactional
relationship, that's semi transactional
short-term, you get into it for whatever
reasons, whereas, but if you're a friend
that evolves into something more than
friends, it's obviously more, there's
more substance there.
100%.
And like you said, there's a level of
respect that we just, even though,
even though we go at it, we do, we, we
are in a constant state of debating.
It's never boring over 30 years and it
has never been boring, but in our kids,
I know we drive them crazy sometimes,
but, um, even though there's that,
there's still, we'll never go to a
certain level with each other.
Came up the other day, whether we're
playing Uno or something, um, with,
with the kids and they were like, well,
you guys are fighting.
We're like, we're not fighting.
We're just talking.
We're just talking, you
know, but it's just how we are.
So, so we got married.
But it was way off base.
It was way off base.
It was way off base.
Yeah.
I don't even know where that came from.
There wasn't even banter.
No.
Just like, what the
hell are you talking about?
So maybe they're damaged.
I don't, hopefully not.
We worked so hard to give them this great
childhood, but, um, so we had that year
and then we moved back and then I will be
the first to say that my heart healed.
When I became a mother, when I had
Nathan, uh, I shifted my whole
personality shifted.
My heart shifted.
My brain shifted.
It's like, um, it was
like a bomb over my soul.
Yeah.
And, um, it was, it was amazing.
It was so healing and I felt so fortunate
to have him and be a mother.
And it was just such a gift.
And I just, I, for the first time in my
life, I felt real joy and purpose.
And I belonged to some, I belonged.
I was a mother and I was your wife and we
were a family and I belonged to something
truly, you know, having our first kid, we
were, went from being a couple to being a
unit.
Yes.
Now we're this, you
know, family as people do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The family unit.
But it just gave me such
that, uh, it stabilized me.
It grounded me.
I, I don't know.
It shifted completely because I hadn't, I
no more doubt because it was all about
being a mother.
It was about him.
Yeah.
And I found a strength
that I didn't know existed.
And, um, it also through over the years
of being a mother helped me understand
what I deserved when I was growing up and
what I was not given, especially by my
dad, um, watching you and
Kaya, you be a father to her.
It's been joyous to me and
I'm, I, I'm so grateful for it.
You're an amazing dad and you guys have
such an incredible relationship.
She's so much, she's such a strong woman
and so much of that has to do with you as
her being her dad.
But it, it also, I've been able to see
how it helped me understand why I was so
broken.
It makes sense.
Like I, then I gave, I was able to give
myself grace because it was like, why
did I, why did I do those things?
Why was I acting like that?
Why was I spiraling?
Why was I, why was
everything always so crazy?
Oh, well that's why, you know, that's why
that child was the way she was, you know,
and I finally wasn't understood.
I'm like, oh, that wasn't normal.
It's an interesting concept because I
think you subconsciously do that as, or
not you, but in general, we all
subconsciously do
that as we're doing this
parenting thing, but for you to see this
alternatives approach
to a father-daughter
relationship.
Yeah.
I never thought of it in those terms.
That's, it makes a lot more sense.
Kind of put some pieces
of the puzzle together.
Yeah.
It, it helped me understand myself and
why I was the way I was.
Cause for so many
years, I just felt crazy.
And I thought I am crazy.
That's it.
I'm just, it's all my fault.
I had guilt because I thought I'm a bad
person or I'm crazy or something's wrong
with me and not even realizing, no, this,
this really is because of everything you
experienced growing up and it's not
normal and that here's this normal way
things should be.
And so it really
helped me and it helped me.
It has helped me watching her grow up
with a father and also you with the boys.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And us as a family, you know what we,
cause I so badly wanted to be, we talked
before we got married, as I've said in
other episodes, it's
important to do that.
I wanted to be home because of all this,
because of everything I'd gone through.
I had lived in a state of instability and
chaos my whole life.
So, you know how a lot of women are like,
I want to go get a job and I want to have
a career and I want to do that.
I want to travel and I
want to do all these things.
I was like, no, no, no, no, no.
I did all the things.
I've been doing all the
things since I was one years old.
I want stability.
I want to stay at home.
I want to cook.
I want to clean.
I want to bake cookies.
I want to change diapers
because I never had that stability.
I flipped.
So I never had the itch
because I never was in one.
I never felt like I was grounded.
So I wanted to be home.
Thankfully you wanted your wife home
because your mom was home.
So you wanted to try to
replicate how you grew up.
So it worked for two
totally different reasons.
Well, you know, you know, what's funny
is, um, I don't, I'm
not, I don't want to make
it sound like you overcompensated, but
you got to do some things that were say
pseudo iconic concepts, like in the fall,
going and picking pumpkins with the kids.
Yes.
At a pumpkin patch, picking apples.
We lived in Jersey at the time.
Yeah.
Picking apples.
I think you even went
picking strawberries.
Yeah.
Right.
So those, oh my gosh, no, no, no.
Mark type of thing.
Talk about overcomp.
I was, I was class mom.
I was team mom.
I'm still team mom
for our last first son.
Um, I was the girl scout leader.
Yeah.
I went on all the field trips.
I have a snack drawer I've had in my
house since the kids
were little that every kid
who walks in this house can
open and eat whatever they want.
And we have a mini
fridge filled with drinks.
Don't ask the rule in this house is you
don't ask, you just help yourself.
Because our house has been an open door
policy for the last like 25 years.
All the kids are welcome here.
I, I jumped in and I, I
like cannonballed into this.
I'm like, whatever I can do to be the
mom, the wife, I'm doing it.
And I have loved every minute of it.
You know, it's interesting.
The reason I gave the disclaimer of the
overcompensating is because the kids,
it's worked out in that you have done all
those things and, but they still, they
don't feel that overbearingness of like,
Oh, my mom, this, or my mom, that, right.
We're friends with them at this point.
Yeah.
I mean, it's an interesting balance.
I think that has been
struck in that sense.
I mean, and thank
God, because it is weird.
Well, I think some of that has to do with
how I communicate with them.
I've always tried, we have an open
communication in our house.
Like we talk about everything, but I try
to not, um, make them talk unless it's
something that I feel that,
look, we need to talk about this.
I try to give them some space.
Like I try to wait until they come to me.
Cause I know they're going
to cause I go in on them.
What's going on?
They shut down.
They shut down.
And then you, I'm like, just let it, let
it complain to you about me.
And then open up.
Yeah, probably.
But, um, so maybe that, and I have tried
to some keep a balance of not being
involved in their personal life, unless
we're needed, but being a presence of
support at all times, if need, like
we're, we're on call tap
us in whenever you need
us, we're here.
And I never, one of my kids
to come home to an empty house.
And I, if I wanted them to know, I just
wanted that 1950s traditional lifestyle.
And it's not cause I'm an anti-feminist.
I'm not.
It's my own personal thing.
I needed that.
And thank God you wanted that too.
And you worked your ass
off to give that to us.
We started out with nothing.
We lived in a box.
That's the size of this very small room
we're in was our entire house.
Um, we,
including the bathroom, the shower,
everything, the kitchen, everything.
We started with nothing.
And at one point you were biking to work.
That's how important it was
to both of us that I was home.
And we've built this life together, but
we have had made sacrifices.
That we could have gone an easier path.
Yes.
Getting a little more familiar or family
support type of thing.
Right.
But we didn't, we went a different route.
I could have gone to work.
Yeah.
Um, and I, and I know I don't know, but
I, I'm sure there's been judgment
through the years from different people
that have entered our lives, um, or
have been in our lives that I haven't
worked, but it's been both of our value.
It's not been me
saying, I don't want to work.
It's our value for how we
wanted to raise our children.
And it's a partnership.
And I've said in the past, you had the
privilege of going and pursuing
your career and knowing that everything
on the home front was taken care of.
And I never worried
about are my kids okay?
Is there going to be
dinner when I come home?
Is my house going to be clean?
Am I going to have clean underwear?
Yeah.
It was done.
So it allowed you the freedom in your
mind to focus completely on your work.
Yeah.
Um, and I had the privilege, you gave me
the privilege of being
able to be home and
create that, that life.
So we worked as a wonderful partnership.
And, and as a result,
um, you know, I say.
There are no report cards or, um, sal,
uh, salary raises or
promotions when you're a parent.
I think the way you know that your reward
or that you did an okay job is if
your adult children want to hang out with
you still, and they want to hang out.
And they're successful.
Well, and they're successful.
I'm talking about our relationship.
Yeah.
They're not in the basement.
No, looking to come up for dinner.
No, they're well-adjusted.
They're working there,
contributing to society.
Our children volunteer all that stuff.
But, um, our relationship with them, they
want to still hang out with us.
So I feel like, okay, I have a question.
Yeah.
Um, your college degree,
it's childhood education.
So it's officially humanities, but it's
an emphasis on early childhood education.
What, what took you down that path?
Well, in college, so when I went to
college, I just wanted
to get out of Portland
and I needed a change.
Um, I didn't ever have an idea completely
when I went to college, what I want to do
with my life, because I was coming from
such chaos, I just needed to get out.
Um, and then through the first couple of
years at school, I, I thought about
psychology for a long time
because of where I came from.
I thought about psychology for a long
time, but I've always loved children.
And I've always liked when I was in high
school, I, um, worked
at a daycare, ironically.
And I love, I love kids.
And so eventually I just
thought, you know what?
This would be a career I would enjoy.
And I thought this would also be a good
schedule when I become a mother.
I, if I'm a teacher, I would be on there.
I was already thinking, I was already
thinking about when I became a mother,
that this would be something I could do.
And when they're off, I'm off.
But I enjoyed, um, I've always loved
children and I've always been
able to connect with children.
Yeah.
So, um, but then I
just wanted to be home.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, I did actually also think the
psychology thing I thought about, um,
wanting to be a therapist or a school
counselor in a high school to help kids.
Cause I knew there were kids probably
like me that suffered
for different reasons.
So I would have really enjoyed that, but
I just was so hyper focused on.
Wanting to be home with my family.
I mean, the reason I ask is I think that
your background there has allowed
you to, to probably be a better mom or a
better communicator with the kids.
Maybe.
Yeah.
Kind of curiosity on that.
Yeah.
I could be, I mean, I
never got certified.
So like I have a one year certifiable.
I didn't go my fifth year.
So if I went my fifth year, I would have
been, I would have been able to teach,
but it could be, and it could just be,
um, natural affinity.
I guess, you know, just wanting, I just
always wanted, I know from the way I grew
up every day felt like it either felt
like the end of times or it was always
ups or downs every day
was so important to me.
And at times I didn't feel that, um,
anyone around me understood that
I'm holding on for dear life here.
So with our kids, I've always wanted to
honor every day for them.
And yeah, this may be minuscule in the
whole scheme of life, but for right now
in this moment, this means everything.
And I'm going to honor that for you.
And so I'm not going to diminish it and
I'm not going to undermine it.
I belittle it because right now this,
this feels like everything.
So I think that came from me never that
never being honored for me.
So it's one of the reasons I try to, um,
when they come to me, when they were
eight, 15, 22, whatever the hell it is.
Sure.
I'm 53.
I know everything's going to be fine, but
that's not how you feel right now.
And you need someone to
say, I understand you.
I get you.
And, and I'm, I hear you.
And I honor what you're saying.
I think I've grown into that.
Yes.
You're much better, much better now than
even a year ago or two years ago.
But yeah, you've
always been good at that.
Whereas I'm more like, come on.
Yeah.
It's not that big a deal.
Let's roll.
Yeah.
Well, and I think some of that's from the
way you were raised.
Probably.
You know, I think, you know, I think you
were probably raised that way where,
you know, it was, uh, you know, you were
raised by the men around you were either
silent generation or Gen X and it's very
much like, can't get over it.
What are you doing?
You know, you be a man,
just get over it to in Vietnam.
That's in.
No, get back in the game, buddy.
Gen X men were not
listened to about their emotions.
No one checked in.
We've talked about that.
Yeah.
No one checked in with, with Gen X boys
about how they were
feeling about anything.
Any, and I'm talking about
how we check in with our kids.
None of that was done.
So, and the reason I'm like that with the
kids is because of my own experience.
I have, I have thought that to myself
before, like, how did I create such a
traditional family life when I had zero
example of that growing up?
Like I had no blueprint, but I think I
just had this dream as a kid of what I
wanted, and so I just create, tried to
create that, like this is what I wish I
had, so I'm just going to create that.
Yeah.
And that's what I, what I, and then
thankfully you had the blueprint.
So just about looking to take credit, but
as we would navigate this, I had
something that, you know, Oh, 100%.
Whenever I grew up
doing, we did as a family.
100%.
Now you came from a
strong family background.
You also gave me permission to not give a
shit about what others think.
Truly.
You know, I was kind of raised like to
always look at the other, where the
other person is coming from to a fault
and you were like, fuck them.
And you really gave me,
no, but you, it elaborated.
No, no, no, but it
liberated me when it mattered.
It liberated me.
Now, a lot of that I acquired it once I
became a mother, became to my kids.
Like I had no hesitation.
Jersey and your take
that West coast out of you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Also, it was more just like, it's okay.
You don't have to always be caring about
everyone else's feelings.
Like you don't need to be a jerk, but
it's okay to reclaim your own energy.
Cause, cause I was also
from the way I was raised.
I was also a people
pleaser and walked on eggshells.
So I was always hyper aware of how
everyone else in the room was feeling.
Cause I didn't want to do
anything to upset them more.
So when you grow up like that, you, you
helped me let a lot of that go where
it could be like, I
reclaim my own energy back.
I reclaim my own space.
And I didn't have to worry
about everyone else in the room.
It was very liberating.
It was very, very, that allowed me to
have, uh, that brought me a lot of peace.
So, you know, raising our kids was very
healing, but I still, here's the,
here's one sad thing is, um, when I was,
what I had been in 2003, I would have
like, um, 32 31.
So my, my dad and I, um, for a couple of
years before that, maybe a year and a
half before that had started to really
for the first time where I remember he
was thrilled with Nathan was born and
then thrilled when Kaya was born.
And I remember I visited
him on a layover in Arizona.
He was there for some medical thing.
And when he was walking me back to the
taxi to take me back to the airport,
he apologized to me.
Oh, really?
He appall, he said, I'm sorry for
everything that you were put through with
your, your mom and I's
divorce and everything.
I don't know why he, I
don't know where that came from.
It was so random.
Um, and the interesting thing about him
as chaotic as he was, he's very, um,
what's the right word and intuitive,
intuitive and touch with things.
He was a doctor.
He had great bedside manners.
He, he could, uh, empathize or relate.
And I think he was aware.
I think he was starting to get to the
point in his life
where he was reflective.
You and I've talked about this when we
hit 50, we started getting that way.
So he was heading into his sixties and I
think he was reflecting and he also
probably seen me as a mom and a wife.
And so he was very proud of you.
Yeah.
Um, but he, he apologized.
I mean, a lot to me.
And then after that, he started, he
visited us, became more regular.
Well, he only came
what, uh, three times total.
I think he visited us in New Jersey and
on his own, he visited us in New Jersey.
And that was a big deal for him to come
and see me on his own.
Yeah.
He came out for the kids' birthdays.
And as a result, him and I, we were just
starting to have our own
relationship for the first time since I
was probably like two, cause where it was
really, he was making the effort for me.
Yeah.
Cause up until then,
everything was on his terms.
Yeah.
My whole childhood, our
relationship was on his terms.
It was never on my terms as it should be.
Yeah.
Should be on the child's terms.
Right.
Um, this was from, he was trying to have
a relationship with
me where I had spent my
whole life trying to have
a relationship with him.
And then I moved on and then he came
around and was trying to
have a relationship with
me and with the kids and everything.
And, um, and things were
really starting to take a turn.
It was, it was, it was
really glorious for me.
And I was, I was so happy to have this,
this new found a chance with him.
And it was starting to really heal a lot
that was left that was still hurting.
Um, and then he got, uh,
he died in a car accident.
He had come to see Kaya for her birthday
and a month later, a little more than a
month later, he died in a car accident.
And I would say that was very traumatic.
Um, my stepbrother was calling the house,
but we didn't hear the phone.
We're sleeping through it.
It's when you had landlines and, um, the
local police came and
knocked on our door.
Yeah.
Like two, three in the morning.
Yeah.
And, uh, and then you called for me cause
I was like, I knew something was wrong.
I can't call.
Yeah.
The cops, like, um, you
need to call Michigan.
Someone in Michigan is trying to reach
you and they've been calling.
They can't.
So call them.
And then you did.
Yeah.
And, um, you call your Brian, you talk to
Brian and then you were the one that had
to tell me.
Yeah.
I still remember it.
Yeah.
And so, um, when that
happened, it wasn't just losing my dad.
It was losing, um, the potential of what
could have been, and it was losing the
hope and the dream of us finally.
Excuse me.
Of us finally having that relationship
that I had been trying to have my entire
life and it's like I had gotten a glimpse
of it and then it was just ripped away
from me and I don't mean to sound selfish
cause my God, he lost his life.
So, I mean, there's so many levels of
tragedy in this, but I'm speaking from
my own perspective, the, I think one of
the reasons it was just so utterly
is that I would have been on a perpetual
wheel of losing my dad my whole life.
Cause I would get a chance of exposure to
him and then either
have to leave Michigan
or he would have another life experience
that would take him further away from me.
Like he was always like just drifting
further and further away from me.
So my life was always losing him.
And then, and then there was this chance
where he was going to actually be able
to be in my life.
And then I lost him permanently.
So it was devastating on so many levels,
not just losing my dad.
It was losing my
dream, you know, all of it.
And that's when I started drinking, you
know, that's when I started drinking.
Alcohol was never a huge, huge part.
Like I partied in high school and
college, but it was
never a big part of my life,
my daily life.
And that's when I remember I made a drink
that night and I think I made a
drink every night after
that for like 20 years.
Yeah.
Major coping, major coping.
Um, that's how devastating it was, you
know, and then I, one
day I just, I w I made
the decision.
I'm like enough.
Like it says enough.
Like this is, this is,
it's an, it's too much.
And you're, you know, we've talked about
how alcohol is going to, would affect us
living into old age,
healthy and all that.
But for me, it was like stop.
And it wasn't like I was
getting drunk every night.
No, no, I was going to, no, I wasn't, I
wasn't a drunk alcoholic.
I just was having that drink.
I was a coping alcohol.
I was a, I was a very
high functioning alcoholic.
I would have a drink, at
least a drink every night.
And then on the weekends we would have a
few more and we've talked about alcohol
in another episode.
That's a whole episode, but that's where
it started, you know?
And so it was just
that little bit of coping.
And then I just was like done.
And so, and that's crazy.
You know, you think about it.
So it's almost like half of my life
dealing with my father.
Well, the real shame of it too is like
you were saying, he was, I remember him
coming out and how happy he was to be
there and how stress free it was.
Yeah.
Right.
And, but I also remember the lead up to
it where he'd be like, you know, Nicole,
I'm thinking of coming out
on this such and such date.
Does this work for you?
Yeah.
And then, well, can you
come out this weekend?
It's, you know, that kind of thing, which
is normal, but you never had that.
Never, never had that normal.
See, it might've been his, his secretary.
Yes.
You know, calls them secretaries, admins,
whatever you want to call them.
Um, and his world was a secretary.
Yeah.
She's working it out.
Yeah.
And this was him actually
calling and figuring it out.
It was almost like he was finally
intentionally trying
to have a relationship
with me.
I know he, I'm going to be clear.
My dad was a wonderful man and, um,
really a pillar of
society in so many ways and
made such an, I'm not going to say who he
is, but made such an impression on.
Tens of thousands of people.
I'll just say that.
Um, and he did love his children so much.
And he did love me.
He loved all his children.
And I know he loved me.
I it's, it's just, um, he just wasn't
good at being an active father.
If that makes sense.
If that, I don't, you know what I mean?
He wasn't good at being that active dad,
but he did love his children.
And, um, and I think if you go back to
the root of what
everything went on with him
and my mom with the children and then him
with my stepmom and having another child,
you know, I think
again, something broke there.
It was just like probably
always a little bit of heartbreak.
He was carrying with him,
you know, so no one's perfect.
Um, the reality is I think everybody's
dealing with something.
Oh yeah.
That's why we started this podcast.
Everyone has something to share.
And it doesn't mean that it's as heavy as
what I'm talking about.
I mean, there's people that have had
amazing lives and they're just as
interesting as what I just talked about.
Honestly, everyone's
story is interesting.
You know, everyone's stories, it's not,
it doesn't all have to be dysfunctional
crazy like mine there.
I love to hear about everybody's life.
I'm fascinated by what everyone's story.
Well, what you're describing as
dysfunctional and chaos, honestly is it's
not that dysfunctional
and it's not that chaotic.
It's your life.
Yeah.
A lot of people who have crazy
dysfunctional, you know, you
functioned, you made it through, right?
I made it through.
It was functional dysfunction or
dysfunctional
functionality, whatever it is.
Right.
Yeah.
And I, and I should, and I have to give a
lot of credit to my mom because even
through all that, you know, her and I
maintain a really good relationship and
open communication and she, she tried the
best she could in all situations.
You know, she, she was dealt a shitty
hand and then had to
figure out how to raise
me and keep her mental,
her mental health together.
So, you know, it's easy once you become a
mother and a wife and you're, get older
to look back and understand things, but
when you're in it, it's so hard to, to
really understand what's going on.
So, you know,
I think it's one of those things, you
know, you know, going back to apologizing
to your high school boyfriend for being
crazy, end of the day, you're a good
person, not like, you know, and there's,
you're not out there hurting anybody.
No, no.
No, no, no, no, no.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
No, no, no, no.
So it's just surviving,
figuring shit out, right?
It's all part of, it's all in our heads
and our hearts or whatever, our souls,
whatever, but it's,
it's, we're all navigating.
We're all getting through this.
We are.
We're all dealing with different inputs
and just meandering our way through.
Yeah, it's true.
I just feel bad.
I projected.
I mean, and I'm not, I don't mean to say
we had a lot of good times.
We really did, but the
bad times were like so bad.
And it was because of me, you know, he
didn't do anything wrong.
He really was a great
guy and he still is.
Um, and even my college boyfriend, I
should say was a really great guy too.
Like we loved each other very much for
that time in our life.
And we had a lot of fun
and he is a good person.
You know, luckily the young men that
entered my world during these times
were good people.
I'm very fortunate.
Cause, um, it could have been really bad
because I was incredibly vulnerable.
So the young men that were in my life,
the young, my high school
boyfriend, my college boyfriend, you
know, at least I had good people with me.
Cause it really could
have been so much worse.
And then, you know, to have you as a
husband, you know, you know, I, I, I
feel you saved me, you saved me.
And I remember always telling you, um,
even if we get
divorced or hate each other,
I will never speak badly of
you because you did save me.
You did even.
I mean, and I'm not saying
that's why we got married.
We got married because you were my other
puzzle piece and we fit together
perfectly and we are each other's person.
And there was no
hesitation in that at all.
We were just each other's person, but he,
you just never hesitated once.
Saved you.
It would not have lasted.
So to your point, there's more of a
puzzle piece coming together as opposed
to some savior type of complex.
You were my missing piece.
You were my missing piece that, you know,
um, but thankfully you had the
fortitude to know how to handle me.
I always say Brian got a degree in
psychology just to be married to me.
Yeah.
So, you know, but, and we've kind of had
to grow up together.
Cause we got married so young.
You know, and a lot goes on.
We know from having two kids in their
twenties, you grow up a lot in your
twenties, so the fact that you and I got
married and started having children
and had to grow up together, kids having
kids, and there's so many pros to that,
but it's also challenging.
You know, so I would say I am the most,
oh, no, I know what I wanted to ask you.
Um, I don't mean to
interrupt, but it's fine.
In, you did not have
religion as growing up.
Right.
And maybe touch on that in terms of when
you did get confirmed Catholic.
Um, what happened there?
What explained that I know some of the
background, but you know, so religion.
It's interesting because I am actually
very spiritual and very religious.
You aren't and we work,
we still work together.
So for people in those situations, um, my
mom, we went to church a couple times.
I think it was called
Beaverton four square.
I think it's, it was just
a general Christian church.
Um, we only went a couple times.
I remember going to Sunday school, but
what I remember from that is I loved it.
I always felt so good when we left and I
always believed in God.
I always believed in God.
I didn't believe in God.
I was raised to believe in
God by your mom or my dad.
Okay.
And my dad, I was, I was
baptized Armenian apostolic.
My family, my Armenian
family goes to church.
Okay.
My dad, I never went to
church when I was there visiting.
Yeah.
Um, well, I've been to Armenian churches
for weddings, but not for a service,
but my Armenian family is religious.
My dad believed in God.
My mom raised me to believe in God.
So I always had that.
It's not like anyone was atheist or
agnostic or anything.
Um, but I never really had a religion
except when I was baptized.
And then when you and I got married in
Vegas, they shut down
the pool area of the
golden nugget hotel in
Vegas for our wedding.
So it was completely non-denominational.
And, um, so there was no religion there.
And even when we first had Nathan
baptized, it was by a non-denominational
woman in my mom's apartment.
Remember that?
I forgot about that.
Yeah.
Your parents were there.
I'm sure they were like, what the hell?
Yeah.
Um, so I didn't have like
consistent religion, right?
But I wanted him baptized.
Talk about weird.
Yeah.
It was so weird.
Um, then we moved to New Jersey and we
put them in Catholic school and I chose
that, um, well, Nathan was in preschool
and then I wanted Catholic school.
Cause I liked the smaller classrooms and
the smaller
environment than public school.
And I wanted uniforms.
And you wanted uniforms.
You went, you grew up in
the town that we moved to.
You went to public school
there, but you wanted uniforms.
And I wanted a small
classroom and a small community.
So we put him in Catholic
school and you're Catholic.
You were raised Catholic,
but you weren't confirmed.
You were baptized.
You took communion, but
you were now confirmed.
Yeah.
Um, and you don't go to church.
And so between the two of us, if your
child is in Catholic school, you need at
least one parent that goes to church and
participates in those things.
It's just not going to work.
So it was on me to be that parent.
So I spent a year going to classes every
Sunday, um, for a year.
And then I was baptized Catholic and
received my confirmation on Easter
service all at once.
It was a long service.
It was like an hour
and a half or something.
Two hours.
Sure.
Yeah.
Um, so then I became Catholic and it was
for, it started out for the kids because
they were in Catholic school and at least
one of their parents should be an active
Catholic that, because
that needed to happen.
Mandatory or.
Yeah.
Somebody needed to be Catholic and
somebody needed to be
going to church and they were
going through all their sacraments.
And if one of us wasn't didn't have all
of them, it wasn't going to fly.
Um, so.
Well, I think you
could just pay more, right?
No, no, you had to show, no, you had to
show like a parent had to be Catholic.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, um, at that time they've changed a
lot of things since, since the pandemic
things have changed, but, um, through
Catholicism and through our children
attending Catholic school, all of them
going to Catholic school until high
Um, I, my, uh, relationship with God has
strengthened significantly and my faith
has become such an integral part of my
life and of my journey.
And, um, I, you know, my, Kaya and I try
to go to church every Sunday and I pray
every day and you pray every day.
Yeah.
I pray for you.
That's a good thing.
Keep going.
Well, what's funny is that even though
you don't go to church, um, you act more
like a Catholic man than some Catholic
men do, you know, you've, you've
stayed, we've been married for over
almost over 30 years and you've never
cheated.
I think that's the rub for me though.
You've never cheated on me.
No.
Um, you're a family man.
You never stopped at the bars.
You don't spend every Saturday golfing.
Um, you are completely and utterly
devoted to your family.
And so, you know, and, and you've paid
Catholic school tuition for, oh my
gosh, I even know how many years, um, at
least 20 years and you, and we tied
every Sunday money comes out of your,
your, our bank account every Sunday for
the church.
So when does that finally get the stop?
I don't know.
But so monetarily, you
also have been very Catholic.
So, you know, even though you don't go to
church with us, um, you, your actions
are, they are very Catholic.
You've been a good Catholic husband and
father by default, whether you want
to be or not.
So that's where that came from.
And, um, and it's helped
me a lot, get through a lot.
I will say that helped
me get through a lot too.
Talking to God, talking to God.
I just talked to God.
That's how it is.
You just talked to God.
I, um, there's something, if one of the
kids is going through something, I, I
talked to God about it
and ask him to help them.
And, um, yeah, that helps a lot.
It helps with my anxiety.
A lot of times at night, a lot, I don't
know, a lot of, I'm sure people can
relate to this when you go to lay your
head on the pillow, sometimes all your
anxieties hit you, your brain.
And if I can't sleep, I'll just say, God,
just please take my anxieties
from me and it's, and it works.
All of a sudden I go to sleep.
I swear it works.
I give them over to God and he takes them
and then I can sleep.
Yeah.
So that has been huge in my life.
There's one other thing I forgot to touch
on and I just want to share because it
might, um, help some women out there.
But, um, with my college boyfriend, when
I was 22, I popped up
pregnant accidentally.
It was a complete accident.
I had been on birth
control since I was 16.
For some reason, I went off of it briefly
and I can't tell you why.
Cause I don't remember.
And I popped up pregnant.
I, um, I did get an abortion.
I got an abortion.
I think I was only four
weeks along, maybe five.
I hadn't even hit six weeks yet.
And, um, the reason I'm sharing this is
because I want other women out there
that it's okay if you've had to make that
decision in your life, but also it's
not a decision made lightly and it's
something that you carry with you for
the rest of your life.
And I personally feel in today's society,
um, for younger women, they've been kind
of sold this, Oh, just get an abortion.
It's no big deal or
have multiple abortions.
What's the big deal?
And that's just, I feel that's so unfair
to do to young women because it is
emotionally damaging.
It's mentally damaging.
And, um, it's something you never escape
for whatever reason.
Um, I don't regret my decision, but it's
something I carry with me.
And so I just think that young women need
to understand that yes, it's important to
have that freedom and that choice, but it
should not be taken lightly.
And it should be, I believe abortion
should be safe and rare, but if you've
had one and you still carry that with
you, that's very normal.
It's, it's a very normal reaction.
And if you're going to have one, just be
prepared that it's not something you just
like go on with the rest of your life.
Like it didn't happen.
It's, it's definitely something that's
serious and, and you need to think about
it that way.
So I just, I wanted to share that because
I mean, you know, it's something
that I've, I've struggled with.
And, um, I just think society is just so
flippant, flippant about it now.
And so I think it deserves to be taken a
little more seriously, you know, and, and
women, young women should know that it's
completely fine to, to have one.
It really is for whatever personal
reason, but, um, it's,
it's not like you're going
to be totally fine mentally afterwards.
You just aren't.
And so you need to be prepared for that.
You know, it's funny.
We, when we drove around the country, we
made that bumper sticker and we were
selling in little shops, right?
Yeah.
Life is ideal choice is real.
That was related to abortion.
Like obviously.
Long ways though.
Yeah.
Choosing life is ideal.
That would be the ideal situation.
If everybody could have the baby that if
they popped up pregnant, but choice is
the reality that you have to go, you
know, women deserve that choice.
And I am a Catholic and I know that that
goes against, um, the teachings, but
I'm very pro woman and
I think you can be both.
And so you became Catholic later on.
Yes.
Yes.
But I don't know if it
would have mattered or not.
Well, no, because I'm still pro choice.
Yeah.
But I don't like the idea of it.
This is my own personal opinion.
I don't think it should be
treated as birth control.
And I also don't think it
should be taken lightly.
Yeah.
And, um, I think at the end of the day,
it's, it is what it is.
And if it happens, it happens.
Yeah.
Right.
And you will be okay, but I just think
that I think sometimes, uh, young women
are kind of led to this feeling of it's
like taking an Advil or it's like
changing your tampon.
It is certainly not.
You know, it's, it's an interesting
concept around a larger concept of how
much the world has shifted, even just in
our 30 years of marriage.
And that's one big area is it used to be,
Oh God, I, you know, an
abortion was semi rare and it was to your
point, it was, um, it was hard.
Yeah.
Now that's this pendulum is
so to your point, flipping.
It was a trip.
It wasn't something that
you shouted from the rooftops.
And now there's literally
now it's like they're proud.
People are proud to
shout it from the rooftops.
It's not something to be proud of.
That's where I'm coming from.
It's not something you need
to be ashamed of, but it is not
something you should be proud of.
And that's why I'm saying
it belongs somewhere else.
It's not pride and it's not shame that
you got to put it somewhere else.
Because, um, that's
what I'm talking about.
Shout your abortion from the rooftops.
That is that's wrong.
And it's wrong to lead young women to
think that that's normal behavior.
Because then when they're suffering
mentally from what happened, they, what
happened, um, then, then they, they might
feel like, Oh, well, I'm not supposed to
feel this way because it's no big deal.
Everyone else is doing it.
And it's like, it does affect cause yeah,
cause I'm not saying that actually it's
all, it's all stays with you.
It's nothing as a woman that ever leaves
you until the day you die.
And, um, so that's
what I would like to see.
It's just a little more reverence treated
again towards this situation.
And that's why I'm sharing this is
because this is what I've gone through.
And, um, I just, I just, for any young
women out there to know you completely
have the right to do that, but just
really take it seriously.
It's not, it's not like it's, it's, it
can be a life changing thing.
Even having a baby's life changing, but
so is having an abortion.
So that was, that was the one thing that
I forgot to touch on.
I have one other one
that you haven't touched on.
Um, and it's, it was in
the life changing arena.
You, well, we, you and I both have had
friends die while we were
still kids and teenagers.
Um, I don't know your friend's name.
I don't necessarily think you share it,
but you had a friend who flipped over in
a car or half roading or something.
It was like a month after, um, after
graduation from high school and him and
some other friends were, um, in a car and
the car flipped and he died.
Him and another boy died too.
Too died.
Wow.
And, um, he had shocking one.
And I think, I think when
something like that happens.
Up until the point that point, you kind
of feel, um, invincible because you're
young and you never face your mortality.
I mean, unless those moments were like me
where I was thinking about killing
myself, but even then you
actually, it's different.
It's hard to explain, but, um, when a
peer dies, you realize you're not
invincible and you can die.
It's that's, that's
definitely life altering.
Do you still think about that?
Does that come into your psyche time?
Like my Roman, like a Roman empire.
There was also another boy I knew in high
school, remember on Tik TOK when
they're saying men think about the Roman
empire, at least once a day.
Yeah.
Um, and then there was another friend who
jumped at head first into
the Wilson river hit his head.
Not intentionally.
Well, no, he dove intentionally, but he
didn't mean to hit his head.
He went home, went to
sleep and never woke up again.
That's why I always tell the kids, you
got to make sure you know how deep
everything is before
and never jump head first.
Yeah.
So, but I think, um, those were for me in
high school, the only two that I can
remember, I don't
think I'm missing anyone.
And then in college, I don't think we
lost anybody in college afterwards.
We know of some people, but, um, so yeah,
that thankfully as weird as it sounds
with the way my childhood went, that
wasn't as prominent.
You experienced more of that than me.
Yeah.
You had suicides and murder and all that.
Yeah.
All that.
So, um, that wasn't as prominent for me.
Yeah.
So now where I'm at is
I've been, I've been good.
I've been, I've been doing really well
and I'm, you know, things have been
really good for a long time for me.
I feel completely healed.
I feel whole.
I feel at peace.
I feel content.
Um, but I've unpacked my trauma.
Yeah.
I have literally impact
everything that I've gone through.
I've unpacked it.
I faced it and I
processed it and I found closure.
What do you, what do you think are some
of those, the catalysts that
allowed you to unpack it?
Was it, you know, probably
the me, of course, right.
But then family, kids, you're finding God
in the food, stopping drinking,
you know, stopping the coping.
Are those all the puzzle or.
Yeah.
Because like I stopped having an eating
disorder, I guess after college, even
though once you have an eating disorder,
you always are kind of aware of how you
eat, but I never went back to that.
Yeah.
So as I let go of the unhealthy coping
mechanisms and also becoming a mother.
And also when you become a mother, you
have to get your shit together.
Like nothing helps you focus
away from yourself more than
becoming a parent.
Yeah.
And then, you know, then there's only so
much time for your shit.
Yeah.
So that helped a lot.
Um, I didn't have as much
time to devote to my issues.
Yeah.
Uh, so it's been, you wouldn't advise
someone to go having kids to solve
your issues, careful there.
Cause people do that.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
It didn't solve it.
Yeah.
It didn't solve it.
I see.
That's why it's taken me so long too, is
that you get busy raising children and
you put yourself on the back burner.
Yeah.
Um, but letting go of the coping
mechanisms, making a conscious decision
to, we made a shift when we turned 50 to
live a healthier life.
And cause we want to
be around for our kids.
Like we're finally
growing up or something.
I think that's Gen X though.
I swear, I think Gen X, I think when
we're 50, it's more like we're 30.
Like we're finally adults or something.
It took us a long time to become, but we
were 30 when we were 10 too.
Like, I think we're just perpetually 30.
And then all of a sudden our
maturity is caught up with it.
I don't know.
Cause we've always had
to be so self-reliant.
It's almost like we finally,
I finally gave myself grace.
I finally wasn't so hard on myself.
And I finally took the time to honor that
child and say, I'm going to have a voice
for you because you didn't
have one for all those years.
So I'm now going to go back and look at
all those experiences
because you deserve that.
You know, so that helps.
So, you know, we've got a 20 something
year old daughter and son and a 14.
And for the older two, especially not the
14, not at all, but they'd
only want to talk to us, the, no, but
they'd need to do his
friends or whatever.
But our older two's friends will seek
advice, especially the girls from you.
Right.
Or you'll give unsolicited advice.
Yes.
Do you have any say nuggets for someone
Kai is age, you know, the girls, if you
look, we had the podcast with the girls,
you know, it's a good conversation.
In general.
Yeah.
Yeah.
In general.
Um, from everything I've learned in life,
uh, number one, do not chase men.
I a hundred percent believe that if he
wanted, if he wanted to, he would.
I'm a big believer in that.
I don't think you should chase men.
I think if a man is
interested in you, you will know.
And if it's right, there
should be no confusion.
If you're feeling
confused, it's not right.
And I think that you should live your
life and a man should add to it.
To already what's going on, um, to, to
your already good life,
a man should add to it.
You should not need him to fulfill
anything for you except
adding to an already good
life. Um, you should do your thing.
Yeah.
So, and also I think that be careful who
you give your energy to sexually.
Um, when you are intimate with someone,
you're accepting their energy and
you're giving your energy and that lasts
inside of your soul.
And so really, um, not
everyone should have access to you.
They should earn it.
And not everyone deserves access to you.
Even family, it should be earned and
especially men or,
you know, if you're, um,
if you're gay, another woman, uh, whoever
you're giving access to of your body,
take that seriously.
Cause you're accepting their energy.
Make sure it's someone you want to accept
their energy and not
everyone deserves access to you.
Like respect yourself enough and honor
yourself enough to know that, um, who you
deserve that time and energy to make sure
they deserve that time and energy.
So I think the, you answered that safe
from a woman to woman.
Yeah.
It's probably this very similar answer to
men, you know, right?
It's, it feels like it can go.
It's a two way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you have any additional advice for say
a young man, your, you know,
your son or his
friends, my son or his friends?
Well, of course that's going to be how I
know how I've raised my sons.
Is that, um, they should make enough
money that if their wife wants to stay
home and raise their kids, they can
provide that, but if their wife wants to
work, they should support her in that.
So I'm a big believer in that that you
should try to make as much money as
possible so that your
wife has that choice.
Um, your wife or you as a couple?
Well, you as a couple.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
I mean, you as a
couple clarifying for you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sorry.
But I mean, I think knowing my older son,
I think he, you know, he also
would have those same values.
So, but I think, um, I don't want them to
be deadbeats where they, you know, yeah.
I think they should be the, the, the man.
I'm very much a believer in that.
You should want to be the man and be able
to provide for your family.
But if your wife wants to work, then you
should a hundred percent
support her that that as well.
And, um, and, and that men deserve
respect to just, I do
believe that, um, when you take a girl
out, you should pay.
I do believe that.
And then I believe once you're dating,
then it's shared finances.
Like she might get coffee
this time and he gets that.
But when you're courting a girl, I
believe in courting.
I think you should open the door for her.
I think you should walk on the outside as
part of the sidewalk.
Silvery should be alive.
I'm a big believer in that.
And, um, if you're going to break up with
a girl, I think it
should be face to face.
You know, it's weird though is I don't
feel like this was a thing when we were
younger, but maybe it was, but now you
hear all these stories of girls just.
Going getting with guys just so they'll
keep buying them dinner type of thing.
I don't feel like that was a whole trend
when we were younger, right?
There wasn't the social media.
I don't know.
Teaching girls at a game at as much.
I don't know.
No, I'm sure social media has a whole.
Yeah.
I mean, that's that, that's
also the thing is be wary.
Obviously if you're interested in a girl,
but make sure that her intentions, you
know, you're feeling the same good
intentions from her and she's not just
using you for free meals, but I think
guys, but don't assume
she is right off the bat.
I keep seeing stuff
on social media about.
First of all, men pain, uh, wanting to
split the check the first date and
they asked the girl out.
Yeah.
That's crazy to me.
It's insane.
Yeah.
Um, or, you know, feeling like making
sure they're not
going to be used, but then
flip side, I do see young men that are
like, no, I, I, I will take her out.
I will pay.
And I want my wife, if she wants to be
home, I should be able to provide dating
of this day and age.
No, I think social media.
Um, I can't even imagine honestly.
So, and I know we're going to have our
older son on and we're going to
talk about some of that, but no, I think
that a man, I think young men should be
chivalrous, um, but also, um, wary and,
and conscious of not getting used.
And that's a, that's a tricky one, you
know, and, um, and like I said, you know,
uh, want to support your wife, but as far
as, as any, I can't think like for boy,
like that's how I raised my boys.
I'm raising my voice.
So if you're asking advice, however, I'm
raising my boys, it would be my
advice, you know, but
more, and then for the girls.
Yeah.
That's, yeah.
That's pretty much, I
wish I would have had.
I wish, I think if I had my dad in my
life, I would have respected myself more
and my energy and my space.
Um, I knew nothing of boundaries.
I don't think our generation did or self
care, but I would have at least
had someone in my corner, a man.
I would add a man in my corner.
So, um, I think that's so important.
We've talked about that, but that's an
interesting question.
And what sense?
Just what advice I would give to young
people out there, you know?
Oh, oh, wait, I thought of one.
We've reached the point
where we're older now.
We are older.
You know, I thought about
something else too, though.
Don't be scared to get
married and have children.
I think that so many, I think there's a
lot of overthinking going on.
If you think you've
met your person, do it.
And it's okay.
If you are financially struggling for
awhile, that's, that's how we grew up.
That's what you do in the start and you
work together and you figure it
out, um, but there's a lot to be said for
when you have children, it actually
makes you be better version of yourself.
You rise to the occasion.
I don't totally disagree with you, but
my, the only thing I would say is don't
rush in the marriage, make sure you're
friends with the person.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That would be no, no, no ultimatums.
We've talked about that.
No, no, no, no, no.
Don't do the ultimatum game.
You don't have to rush in, but to your
point, you don't have to go on the,
the 10 year courtship either.
100%.
So that's what I mean.
I mean, if you've met your person and all
that, I don't mean hurry up and go out
and get, but if you think this is your
person, go for it, take a chance, take a
chance because you know, it's time, it's
time relationships are supposed to
evolve and keep growing even ours at 30
years, it's always evolving and growing.
You finally came around.
You don't want to become stagnant.
So, um, yeah, that I
guess that's my story.
And now here I am doing a
podcast as a old person.
I'm the old person.
It's funny.
We, we used to be the young parents.
Now we're the older
now or the older parents.
Yeah.
So, but I'm happy to say I actually can
say I'm proud of myself.
And that's really hard for me to say,
cause I've been the hardest
on myself my whole life.
Um, I'm proud for what I, I got through
and I'm proud of the, the family
we've created and, um, and also that I've
been able to devote time to myself
truly for the first time in my life over
these last few years and challenged
myself and, um, honored myself.
You know, so that's taking the time for
me, which is something
that does not come naturally.
All right.
Last question.
Yeah.
Just made me think of it.
Um, do you have anything you want to
accomplish in these?
I don't think we're in
the golden years yet.
No, not yet.
Like, I don't think you,
you, you want to run a marathon.
I don't think your body would let you,
but is there something like that where,
you know, you've written one book, would
you like to write another book or give
any, you know, big milestone types of
things that are one
type of thing or whatever.
Um, I would love for, I
would love to have more guests.
Like I want to continue to grow this
podcast and have more and more guests
on because I am so fascinated by people.
I'm way more interested
in people than celebrities.
I'm way more interested in authenticity
than illusion and persona.
So I would just like to get to know as
many people as I can
and hear their stories.
That's, that's something
I'd like to accomplish.
Um, I've, I've thought
about writing another book.
Yeah.
And then physically, I really, really
want to, um, finally really focus on
weight training in 2025
because I go back and forth with it.
And I, I know as a woman and
not to get muscles like me.
Yeah.
And it was a woman in menopause and we're
going to do a menopause episode,
but, um, that that's so
important for my health.
Yeah.
And so I really want to focus on that,
but I have to be honest, my greatest
is the kids and our 30 year marriage.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's my legacy.
No matter what happens in the, for the
rest of my life, my legacy is our
marriage and our three kids.
And I will, there will never be anything
in my life I'm more proud of than that.
So in my mind, I'm like, you know,
everything else is
like icing on the cake.
All right.
Last question.
Since you brought up the, I
was thinking longer term, our
daughter wants to run a marathon.
Yeah.
You know, those types of things, um, for
2025, you have any resolutions coming up?
This will be released
before the year or right around.
Um, really, really,
um, growing the podcast.
Okay.
2025 is really focusing on the podcast,
growing the podcast, mainly because I
want to talk to as many people as
possible and reach as
many people as possible.
So I'd say 2025 will be, um,
a big focus on the podcast.
So that, and, um, and weight training.
And what you got me a
weighted vest for Christmas.
I'm excited to use that.
And I think the interesting thing about
this podcast is we're not necessarily
seeking commercial success.
Right.
It's the kind of the furthest thing from
our minds in that sense.
It's that connection to
people's different stories.
And, and, and, and, cause I think that it
will also reach others and it
could affect their lives positively.
Yeah.
And maybe help people feel, um, seen and
understood and not alone.
Yeah.
So that's it.
But I also am so interested
in hearing people's stories.
Yeah.
So that's the main thing.
And I just have to say for anyone
watching, I am wearing a miss peaches.
Hoodie.
And I don't know if anyone knows who miss
peaches is, but she
is Dave Portnoy's dog.
I didn't know a lot about Dave Portnoy
before miss peaches.
I knew he would, I know he, I knew he
owned barstool sports and I knew,
knew he did the, um, pizza reviews
because he's done a
couple in the town we live in.
And he helps small
businesses by doing these reviews.
And so I've always admired that about him
and I, and he's a Gen Xer.
And I really, I love how he is so cut and
dry and just says it how it is.
I love that.
It's a Boston guy.
Yeah.
Um, but then he adopted miss peaches and
she is the most precious angel on earth.
She's a pit bull and
she's joy and sweetness.
Another dog now too.
And then after miss peaches, well, he
adopted Pete, the beagle who has worked.
He seems to be the most
perfect brother for her.
They play all day.
And for a beagle, he
beagles typically are runners.
He doesn't seem to be a runner.
Miss peaches is the one who has tried to
escape and in all his houses, he's had to
reinforce all his fencing.
So she doesn't get it go anywhere, but,
um, he's big into
animal rescue, which you
and I are kind of a shtick in a sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, you and I are big.
All of our dogs are rescues through our
lives and we've had more.
We've, we've had seven dogs total and
we've always rescue
is our favorite breed.
And he, all the money from everything
miss peaches, if you
go to barstool sports,
all, anything you buy from miss peaches
or Pete, the beagle, every dollar goes
towards, um, rescues around the country.
He's raised over a million dollars just
from people buying hoodies.
And so, um, I love miss peaches.
You should check around on social media,
but I'm just putting the plug out there
because it helps
animals, uh, animal rescues.
So does he donate to, does he
like pick a place of random?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like there was one by us up in West Palm.
He gave $25,000 to the big dog rescue.
No, a different one.
Okay.
He gave $25,000 to them, but she's gotten
the key to the city of Miami.
Like she is an angel.
She's she's perfect.
She's amazing.
And, um, I think I encourage everyone to
go check out miss peaches on social
media, and then if you
want the hoodies are so cute.
The thing about Dave or Fortnoy, it would
be, I'm sure he doesn't have this huge
overhead if you give to United Way, 20%
of your donations go into people
that it's intended for, right?
If you buy the sweatshirt, it probably
covers the cost and you get a sweatshirt
out of it, but then I'm sure his overhead
is not nearly as bureaucratic or
administrative.
So yeah, probably your, your dollar goes
further and reaching a, yeah.
Wherever it's intended for sure.
No, it says every dollar.
So I just, I had to say that just because
it's for such a good cause.
So, and I love my miss peaches hoodie.
I got it for Christmas.
She's a, she's a precious little baby.
All right.
You got anything else?
Are we done?
No, so that was it.
So that's my life story.
I have to, animal rescue also is such a
big part of my life.
So I had to also bring that into this
episode, but thank you for listening
to my story and, um, I hope it, uh, I
hope it was
entertaining and maybe it also,
people could relate to some
of the stuff I talked about.
So thank you so much for listening.
I appreciate it.
And that's our first Gen X speaks episode
and we will definitely be having more.
And thank you.
The next time we talk to
our listeners will be 2025.
So we will see you next year.
Take care.
Bye.