Episode 14 - GenZ Series: Abdel

[Music] Welcome to GenX Adulting and today we have Abdel with us. And I'm trying to figure out what generation you're representing. What year were you born? I think I've been trying to figure that out as well. I'm 97 and I think that's great at the cutoff. Okay, so yeah, you are the last Gen Z, but you're part of a micro generation called Zillennials. So Zillennials are a small group that's in between Gen Z and Millennial, even though you're officially a Gen Z. But you guys had a very unique experience of having a good part of your childhood without technology, without a phone, without social media. And then the second part of your childhood, I'm guessing probably early high school. The floodgates just opened. Snapchat, phones, MySpace I think, or Facebook. MySpace was a little before my time. Right, that's more Millennial. Facebook I didn't have. Facebook, and you guys used Facebook. And that was like, that's where everyone knew what was going on. Right, that was like, so you guys had both experiences. Sure. You had that traditional childhood of no technology. And then you have experienced technology before you became an adult. Right. And then there's other just unique experiences to this little micro generation that you guys can all relate to each other. So even to kids and their adults in their early 20s, you guys probably don't totally relate to a lot of what they've gone through. But then people in their mid 30s, you guys aren't totally like there yet. So you're just that kind of in between kind of in limbo, kind of in limbo. You're the Zillennials. So but you are Gen Z, but you're literally the last ones. Well, that's good that there's some kind of term for that. I did have that thought before where it's like, what makes that cut off?

So but you are Gen Z, but you're literally the last ones. Well, that's good that there's some kind of term for that. I did have that thought before where it's like, what makes that cut off? You know, like, yeah, can it be relative to because I am technically born in 97. But I feel like, like you said, I share some experiences from before. And, you know, yeah, I think I think there's things you can probably relate to a 22 year old with. But there's probably some things you can relate to a 32 year old. Exactly. So you are you kind of have the best of both worlds, I think, for the Gen Z generation. I think you guys got, like I said, the best of both worlds. Whereas somebody who's 12, 13, 14. Why do you say that they got the best of both worlds? Because they had the privilege. I think it's a privilege. There's a Gen Xer. We had no technology zero. Millennials had my space. Landlines. I mean, you know what I mean. But Millennials had my space. So they had some technology. Right. And I mean, we had computers, we had Atari and all that. But I'm talking about social media. Yeah. Cell phones. I think that's a privilege to grow up without that because you're not as a child because you didn't have an iPad in your face at five or two or two. And you didn't you went through got through middle school without anything you ever did getting posted somewhere. No doubt. You didn't know if somebody had to sleep over and didn't invite you when you were 12. There was no FOMO. There was no FOMO that was created immediately. Now, maybe when you got to school on Monday and heard you had some FOMO, but it already happened. So it's whatever. Whereas somebody who's 12, 13, 14, 15, their entire childhood. Is that a new concept then that FOMO is a

Monday and heard you had some FOMO, but it already happened. So it's whatever. Whereas somebody who's 12, 13, 14, 15, their entire childhood. Is that a new concept then that FOMO is a new concept because of social media? Or I guess it's existed before, but now it's really amplified out there. Yeah. It's a FOMO is a huge, huge concept and experience, especially for young Gen Z and for Gen Alpha. They only know FOMO instantly. Like they know immediately if they were left out of something. They know. In fact, with Snapchat, you share your location. Typically, kids do so they can go on and see where all of their friends are. So let's say most of your friends are at someone's house and you're not there. You just see all the little cartoons in one location. You see all the little people. And then you know you weren't invited. And that sucks. Right. So that affects us as a child growing and your brain's growing, your confidence is growing. I thought it was just the parents overreacting and feeding into something more so than what you're describing is the little cartoons in the Snapchat. You're not there. And it's like this shit is real. Yeah. They're but mojis, right? That sounds right. I think they're but mojis. So so when you're growing and you're building yourself a seam and middle schools, I think is the worst time of child's life. And then so those kids on top of just the normal crap that you go through as a twelve thirteen fourteen year old. Now you have technology shoving in your face. Well, guess what? You missed out on right away. So for the millennials, they had the privilege of going through their toddler years, their elementary years, their middle school years without that. And even as like the technology boom, so

So for the millennials, they had the privilege of going through their toddler years, their elementary years, their middle school years without that. And even as like the technology boom, so to speak, kind of happened, I remember growing up, we only had one TV and it was in the living room. We only had one computer and it was designated to be wherever it was. And I never had a TV in my room growing up. I didn't have my first phone until like eighth grade. So looking back, I think that did kind of help me just kind of come into my own. But you can't really escape it once it's all kind of out there. You know, you do get inundated once it's out. You can't put it back in the can. Right. You know, it's funny now that you say that when Nathan was growing up and even Kaya, we had the one TV in the living room. They didn't have TVs in their rooms. We had the one computer, like you're saying, was designated. And it was in like a public community spot in the house. Right. And then but now with Dylan, it's like he's got an Xbox in his room. He's got a big TV. He's got a phone, everything. So to your point, I guess that is somewhat of a privilege that you didn't have that noise. Right. Yes. That noise. So they didn't hit them until you're saying like eighth grade, you got your phone. And I feel like Nathan, I remember mentioning to me, I think he feels like Snapchat really became more part of his life, maybe as a sophomore. In high school. In high school. Yeah. So that's where that little micro generation, I think you guys kind of had the best of both worlds because then by the time technology was the social media, I should say, was really in your life. It's when you were old enough to probably process a lot of it. There was a lot of personal personal

the time technology was the social media, I should say, was really in your life. It's when you were old enough to probably process a lot of it. There was a lot of personal personal development that had already gone on up until that point. Yeah. You know, it was beneficial in the sense that it didn't really kind of adversely affect me. Now, don't get me wrong. Like there'll be times where you're just aimlessly on your phone and you kind of got to snap out of it. Like what am I doing here? Yeah. And there's just that false sense of a dopamine rush every time you get a notification on anything. Totally. It's true. And it's there's that chronically online concept, you know, where you realize, OK, I need to get out into some real life to get perspective because what I'm thinking right now, only people that are on TikTok right now are talking about this, but no one else is. So I need to get some balance. Right. Yeah. So I think I think that it's great for your generation. So you're born in 1997. Where were you born? I was born in New Jersey. So where? Jersey, a small town called Neptune. Yeah. To near Bradley Beach. Didn't live there much, but I was born there because my mom was doing her pediatric residency up at Jersey Shore Medical Center. OK. And that just kind of so happened to be, you know, where where I was born and spent a lot of time with my dad during those like first few months and year while she was at the hospital for various parts of the day. And that's kind of how I learned how to speak Spanish because that's all I spoke with him. So are so what is your dad? He's Dominican. And is your mom Dominican? She is. My mom moved to New York when she was an adolescent, went to high school, college up in New York as well.

So are so what is your dad? He's Dominican. And is your mom Dominican? She is. My mom moved to New York when she was an adolescent, went to high school, college up in New York as well. And she went back to the Dominican for medical school. And that's how they ended up meeting. So she met your dad in the Dominican. Correct. And then he came over with her back after I was born shortly after. So you so after you were born in Jersey is when he moved officially. Correct. OK. So did they get married here or got married in the Dominican? OK. Funny enough, exactly a year before I was born. So their anniversary is my birthday. Oh, my gosh. That's so funny. That is so cool. Yeah. OK. So then how long would you say you guys were in Jersey? Say about two and a half years. We spent some time in New York City as well with my grandma for about a year or so. And story just goes that my dad just got tired of the cold. Like listen, we got to we got to get the hell out of here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We eventually did settle down here in Florida. But just to kind of touch on just the dynamic real quick, too. It's like it's something that I do want to ask my parents, like why I've only ever spoken Spanish with my dad in English with my mom. And they both speak both languages well beyond well, I would say. But that's just always kind of been the case. And therefore, I never really remembered learning. I just always had it kind of in my back pocket. I mean, when you say you don't remember learning, you mean Spanish or English both. So it just did you think they did that on purpose so that you would be comfortable with both languages and they made a conscious decision? You only speak Spanish to him. I'll only speak English and then he will be bilingual.

purpose so that you would be comfortable with both languages and they made a conscious decision? You only speak Spanish to him. I'll only speak English and then he will be bilingual. It's a good idea. Hindsight. Yeah. I don't know if that's the intentionality that was behind it. I think probably looking back at the time, my dad was, you know, recently had moved over to this country. So he was more comfortable speaking Spanish at that time, especially. Yeah. There were moments where where I would be in preschool and they would pull my parents aside and like, hey, you got to start speaking English to this kid. Oh, because you were mainly speaking Spanish, right. Spending more time with your dad, especially those early years. So that makes sense. So then, well, did he know any English? Yeah, he he sells himself short, frankly. He's he's gotten much better, you know, 25 plus years later. Yeah. But, you know, with her growing up in New York as well, you know, her English was further developed. Right. His was right. Right. Right. And to this day, I'll go back home and, you know, all three of us will be in the kitchen and I'm just having a bilingual conversation in real time. No way. Yeah. So what a trip. So she still mainly speaks English to you. I would say 100 percent of the time. And he's speaking Spanish. 100 percent of the time. So your brain is just constantly translating. Just moving. And I wouldn't even say translating. I think it's just to the point where it's so innate. But yeah. And and getting those reps as I grew up helped too, because I as I eventually went to high school and college, I wasn't really speaking that much Spanish. Yeah. Just in my personal life. Right. And then I kind of got into the career that I'm into now.

eventually went to high school and college, I wasn't really speaking that much Spanish. Yeah. Just in my personal life. Right. And then I kind of got into the career that I'm into now. I did have to pull out that Spanish. Right. Right. Right. And there was not that there was a learning curve, but, you know, you do get a little rusty. Yeah. So the grandma in New York, was that your mom's mom? Yes. So they came over from the Dominican. Mm hmm. Were they first generation? Yes. So my grandma, my mom and my grandma came over when my mom was 12 to New York. And OK. Kind of settled there. And she went to Stony Brook out in Long Island. OK. It just kind of made sense to further her education in the Dominican. Medical school wise, just cheaper. She had a place to live. And it just kind of made the most sense. So did your grandma speak Spanish only in the home to your mom? Do you know? Yes. Yes. Did your grandma ever learn English? I mean, she can get by. OK. But that was the manage to everyone. Well, there's there's a large Dominican population. Very unity up in Long Island. Right. Long Island, Manhattan. Yeah. Yeah. You don't need to speak English, probably. Sure. You can make the argument. You need to speak English in South Florida anymore, too. But yeah. But in your mom's line of work, she needed English. Absolutely. And even in her current her current patient population, and she's a pediatrician, but a lot of those patients are from Spanish speaking countries as well. But of course, like growing up and going through schooling. You know, I've had this conversation with her. It's like, how was it like, you know, coming to a new country at 12, 13? Yeah. Kind of like in that. Talk about middle school years. Exactly. Geez. It must have been

conversation with her. It's like, how was it like, you know, coming to a new country at 12, 13? Yeah. Kind of like in that. Talk about middle school years. Exactly. Geez. It must have been difficult. And I'm sure it was. Yeah. But she was always someone who was very. She still is kind of headstrong and she knows, you know, what she wants to accomplish. So she kind of always kept her head on her swivel and she made it work. That's awesome. Have you ever talked to her about that? Like the challenges of coming over here like that? Yeah. And she was always more reserved from what she told me during those those years. But yeah, it was that first year she told me was really tough because she didn't know anything. Yeah. And middle school is hard for girls in general. Sure. And then when you're a new girl walking in. Yeah. I'm sure. Yeah. No, I'm sure there's some trauma there. Yeah. Yeah. That she that she's buried, you know, as a lot of girls do. So, yeah, props to her on that one. Yeah. No, she's sure she's one of my heroes, frankly. Like she's always kind of not really led me in one direction or another. Just really encouraged me to think for myself. Yeah. I would love to have a more in-depth conversation of how that was. Like, yeah. Yeah. Not really knowing anything and not really being able to relate to anything. I'm sure there were, you know, classmates or contemporaries that were kind of also in her same spot, especially in New York City at the time. Melting about it. Yeah. Sure. OK, so you guys did you move down to South Florida right away? Yeah. So Palm Beach County, West West Boyton area. And then you have a sister, right? I have a younger sister, five years younger than I. So she was born here. Yes.

South Florida right away? Yeah. So Palm Beach County, West West Boyton area. And then you have a sister, right? I have a younger sister, five years younger than I. So she was born here. Yes. And did she have the same experience of bilingual being brought up bilingual? You know, we kind of give her shit for this, too, where it's like she's not as she's probably listen to this eventually, but I'm sure she's coddled. Yeah, I would say she's a girl. I would say she's fluent. But I think there's something to be said about, you know, really hammering that second language simultaneously at such a young age. Yeah. And even, you know, when I was one, two, three, I would take summer trips to the Dominican Republic to see my grandparents. And it wouldn't be like a week trip. Like, I would be there from June to August. Wow. So your whole summer. Correct. And by the time I got back home, it was like, OK, like, yeah, relearn English. Yeah, I feel yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So she speaks Spanish very well. Same deal like Spanish with my dad, English with my mom. And it's honestly something that she kind of took some pride in as as she kind of got older and kind of honed it in. So, yeah, we're we're all bilingual. Our dogs are. Are they really? Oh, that's true. Sit on command. English, Spanish. Oh, that's that's so cool. OK, so did your sister not spend any of the summers in the Dominican like you did? Not as frequently. We made a few trips when she was younger. But once my grandma started spending less time over there and more time in Florida and New York, as she frankly had more grandkids. Yeah, I think that's what kind of curbed some of those longer trips. Yeah. But my dad's side of the family is still out there as well. So we make it a point to

she frankly had more grandkids. Yeah, I think that's what kind of curbed some of those longer trips. Yeah. But my dad's side of the family is still out there as well. So we make it a point to go as frequently as we can. But yeah, I'd say it's been a while since we had a full summer out there. OK, so probably around the time I was 10 or 11. OK, so so you pretty much your elementary years. All that was down here then, right? Yeah, I preschool or pre-K. OK. All your memories are down here. Did you play any sports? Yeah, so I've always loved sports like baseball, basketball. I wanted to sign up for water polo one time. I saw like a flyer for it. So I've always been interested in everything that the whole little league, shebang, and it's funny, my mom and other family members that would come see me play this was like very young, like six or seven. All the kids, you know, little league, they're aimlessly playing with their gum or like the grass and and I'm just like locked into the game. Yeah, trying whatever to win that game. And it's just some wrecking. So they would always sound like, hey, like you don't have a contract. Like it's not that serious. And I'm like, well, it kind of is to me. Right. So, yeah, that that passion was always there. And I was always kind of forward thinking in a way where. Frankly, around like early teens, I was like, OK, I'm not going to be a major baseball player. Not only is it really difficult, but I was pretty cognizant of like where I was at with my own skill set. Well, did you play travel? Did they have travel back then? They do. Like now it's crazy. Yeah, I'm sure now it's just way more amplified. But there was some more organized leagues where, you know, things would be taken a bit more seriously. Yeah.

They do. Like now it's crazy. Yeah, I'm sure now it's just way more amplified. But there was some more organized leagues where, you know, things would be taken a bit more seriously. Yeah. But I think even when I was growing up there, there wasn't as big of an emphasis on just playing one sport the entirety of the year. Yeah. So you kind of did have your fingerprints on different activities. And yeah, and I honestly loved it. I don't know when that shift happened, because when we were growing up, you played seasonally, you played basketball, you played basketball season, you played for girls, softball during softball season. You went through that growing up in New Jersey where sports were seasonally. Right. Yeah. It's it's also a phenomenon, I think, here in Florida in anywhere north of probably North Carolina. You play three sports because you have seasons. You play, you know, football or soccer in the fall. Basketball or swimming or wrestling in the winter. And then baseball or softball or other sports track and field, maybe in the in the spring and in Florida, it's year round. People start to specialize at a young age. And if you want to have fun and compete, you're forced into specializing because travel baseball players will play in little league baseball and they just start dominating. Exactly. And if you play rec lacrosse, the travel lacrosse kids play rec and they dominate. So it's not as much fun. Right. So it's that seasonality takes a lot of fun out of it, I think. But you're saying that you did experience some seasonality with your sports growing up. Absolutely. Down here in Florida. Right. And I think like there's also a point to be made. And you guys can probably speak on this with having a son who currently plays

with your sports growing up. Absolutely. Down here in Florida. Right. And I think like there's also a point to be made. And you guys can probably speak on this with having a son who currently plays lacrosse. It's like there seems to be a hyper fixation like on the parents side of like getting that scholarship. Oh, yeah. Getting to point A or point B. And whereas the kid might not even love the sport. And I saw a lot of that myself. And again, to bring it back to like my parents, there was never like a force feeding of like, this is what you got to do to do this. I like to get here. Just if you love it, great. Go have fun. And, you know, the chips may fall wherever they may. Yeah. But I think now more than ever, there's this heightened pressure that's put on these kids. 100 percent. Whereas like the parents are almost trying to live through them. Yes. The parents live vicariously through the kids. And it's totally unhealthy. Right. Yeah. Puts a lot of pressure on the kids and it takes away a lot of the fun. Right. And then like if the kid is talented enough to, you know, get a scholarship or, you know, become a professional player, you might get to the point where he starts to hate the game before, you know, he even has a chance to make a career for himself because his entire life, this is all he's known. And, you know, it kind of gets associated with, you know, negative experiences as well. Yes. You are so right. We have been involved with travel heavily with Dylan and have seen everything you're talking about. And one thing I've always found so interesting is because having Dylan in travel, it's so expensive. It's so expensive. Not just the travel, but just your registration fees, your gear. Every you've spent thousands, tens of

interesting is because having Dylan in travel, it's so expensive. It's so expensive. Not just the travel, but just your registration fees, your gear. Every you've spent thousands, tens of thousands of dollars. And it almost is like you probably are spending more than what the scholarship should be. You know what I mean? Like if you're going for the scholarship and you're not even going to break even, I think, by the time you get there. So it's interesting you brought that up because Dylan was and is still heavily involved in lacrosse. But he did hit a point about a year ago where he would he came to us and said, I love lacrosse, but I don't want to play it in college. Sure. I am definitely not. Don't want to do one. And that's OK. And yeah, and I was so grateful that he felt comfortable coming to us because we had been involved in this small, intense community. And that that's not normal to say to your parents in this community. Right. And it was right around the time where it was starting to be discussed that your kids should be sent to prep school if they really want to get into a D1 program. And we knew right away we're not sending our kid anywhere as a high school or I'm keeping him as long as I can. There's no way we're sending him 2000 miles away. Yeah, we had him for a reason. Yeah, exactly. So and nothing against people who do that, but that's not didn't work for our family. And that's when he said, look, he said, I want to be in a frat like Nathan. And I if I play, maybe I'll play club, you know, for a college he goes, I want to have a girlfriend. I want to have fun. I don't want lacrosse to be everything I do in college. Right. I was so grateful he said that because then we could honor where his head was out with lacrosse and

girlfriend. I want to have fun. I don't want lacrosse to be everything I do in college. Right. I was so grateful he said that because then we could honor where his head was out with lacrosse and adjust and say, OK, you don't have to play travel to the same level you've been playing. We can back off. And it changed his whole perspective. Absolutely. And all of those things can exist simultaneously. Right. Where he can still have that love for the game, but still have a healthy balance to continue growing as an individual and not having that be the end all be all. Yeah, yes. Sun up to sundown. Yes. And there are kids he has played with and still plays with that are hyper focus. Sure. They know what they want. They've known what they wanted, probably since they were 10. Right. And they're going for it. And wonderful. God bless them. That's driven by those kids, though. Absolutely. Not by their I mean, their parents are definitely there, but it has. It reaches a point. And Brian, you always tell me it'll get to a point where it has to come from the kid. It's just obvious. Parents can only be involved so much, you know. I mean, as parents, we can facilitate driving kids to practice, encouraging them to go when they don't want to go giving them a good diet, buying all the right equipment. But if it's not coming from them, it's not happening. And it's something parents don't realize. Yeah, it is just not going to happen if it's not self motivated. It's going to stop. And Nathan and Kai have both had friends in high school who had played the sport. And then when they got to senior year, they're like, I don't want to play in college. And their parents were shocked. Yeah. You know, it's because you have all you've put all your dreams into this one thing.

they're like, I don't want to play in college. And their parents were shocked. Yeah. You know, it's because you have all you've put all your dreams into this one thing. Right. And then your kids like, I don't want to, you know. And so it's a whole adjustment. So and similar to the parents, there there were some coaches in rec as well who are very just kind of rigid and thinking. And this is how you do things. And this is how you're going to succeed. And I remember vividly, I'm like nine, 10 years old. Like you're telling me what you think I need to become the next Alex Rodriguez. It's like, I don't even want to be Alex Rodriguez. Right. I want to be making the decisions. Right. Right. Right. And that's something that I've, you know, almost thought about a lot. Like, how did I have that foresight at such a young age where it's like most kids, you know, they they want to be on the court, not to say that I didn't. I just I knew that, you know, it just wasn't in the cards for me. When did that shift happen for you? Were you where you came to that full realization? OK, I don't I don't want to play professionally, but I still want to be involved in this sport. So early, like before high school, even. Oh, wow. Do you do was there an event that got you there because baseball is in your blood. Right. It's a huge thing in the Dominican Republic. Right. But also in your family. You had an uncle who played professional baseball. Sure. How did you come to that realization at such a young age? It's kind of a pretty mature decision to land that that early. I think, you know, having the perspective of of having someone close in the game and kind of having access to certain areas and being around a clubhouse and, you know, taking in games, you start to see the

of of having someone close in the game and kind of having access to certain areas and being around a clubhouse and, you know, taking in games, you start to see the other machinations that are behind the scenes of the game. And over time, you start realizing, OK, like, who's this guy? He's got a quarter zip on. He's part of the team, but he's not a player. But he seems semi important. Like, maybe it's kind of cool what he's doing. Let me look into that. Right. And that kind of just very interesting started a dovetail of me just researching, you know, what opportunities that I can kind of infiltrate. Like, and it's such a never growing game where, you know, there's more technology involved now than there was when I was kind of having these first thoughts. But yeah, I think being in that environment and kind of having access to things that otherwise I wouldn't have definitely very grateful for. But it did allow me to kind of see things from a different side where like, you know, if you watch a game on TV, you're not going to see, you know, what goes into the preparation of a game or the decision making of personnel and stuff like that. So I always knew it existed. But to kind of see that firsthand really motivated me to see, you know, what I needed to do to get there myself. Sorry. Did you have anyone in your ear kind of saying, hey, there's more to baseball than just playing the game. There is the operational side or the recruiting side or the scouting side. Was anyone there pointing that out or you just being around it? You're like, this is this other stuff interests me. I'd say more so the latter. I mean, a lot of it was self discovery. Like, of course, like my dad and I would have conversations about it.

You're like, this is this other stuff interests me. I'd say more so the latter. I mean, a lot of it was self discovery. Like, of course, like my dad and I would have conversations about it. You know, you could be a trainer, you could be a team doctor. Like there are other things. And especially with them being in the medical field, I started to think maybe that's how I would kind of be involved. But again, like they never really kind of made it known that that's what they wanted me to do. It was always like, you know, you figure it out. I vividly remember like my first semester at FSU, I called my mom and I was like, hey, mom, like this med school things is not for me and it's not going to happen. She was like, hey, that's that's awesome. I'm glad you told me now versus, you know, junior year. Yeah, yeah. Kind of like in too deep and now you're going to waste some time just to kind of get, you know, the degree you want. Right, right. But she was like, yeah, you know, I knew that to be sure. I just wanted you to kind of come to that realization yourself. She knew. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's such a testament to the relationship you have with your parents and with your mom that you could make that phone call and be completely honest with her. And you knew that she would be receptive to whatever you were going to tell her. No doubt. So that, I mean, kudos to your parents for creating that relationship with you, because especially they're two very successful positions and you do have this family connection to professional baseball. So in other families that could have just created so much pressure to do one or the other. And they instead took the route of we're going to let him figure out his own dreams. I mean, that's that's really amazing

created so much pressure to do one or the other. And they instead took the route of we're going to let him figure out his own dreams. I mean, that's that's really amazing because you're talking about people who are very successful, very driven, but then to be able to pull that back and allow you to find your own path. That's that's great parenting. No, it's something I'm definitely very grateful for. And like you said, there was always like an openness to communicate. I never really felt that I needed to like go behind their back with anything like as a kid. Yeah. You know, just having that relationship with them like, hey, like this is what I'm up to. Hey, I'm going to go here. Hey, I'm going to do this. And even in high school, frankly, I was more concerned with the score of the Miami Heat basketball game than what was going on Friday night. And that's just kind of who I am personally. Right. Never really a. And going out kind of guy in high school. You know, I I say that to say that, you know, my parents were always receptive of that and they always kind of allowed me again to just make my own path. Find your way. Correct. So the exposure you received from having the privilege of having family in the professional baseball world. So that exposure combined with the acceptance by your parents to find your own way led you to figure out kind of what you want to do. But did you know so you went to OK, what made you choose FSU before I go further with that discussion? I always knew I wanted to stay in Florida again, just kind of having in-depth conversations with my mom about it at the time. I was like, you know, you could go out of state, but like the end of the day, you're going to get your undergraduate degree and pay way more. And then.

mom about it at the time. I was like, you know, you could go out of state, but like the end of the day, you're going to get your undergraduate degree and pay way more. And then. Yeah, kind of in the same spot as everyone else. So I knew I wanted to stay in Florida. Florida State was the perfect distance away. It was not too far, but, you know, wasn't like in my backyard anyway at the same time. And I made a few visits. I visited Florida and I visited Florida State. And again, this is only my personal experience, but I did feel a little more just rigidity up in Gainesville just with everyone being so tunnel visioned. I want to graduate as quick as I can. I want to get in. I want to get out. I want to do this and that like and just very being hyper focused on one thing, which if that's your thing, great. I was looking for a more eclectic experience where I could make friendships and make relationships and connect and kind of build my portfolio out. And I just felt more at home in Tallahassee. Frankly, there was a very familial aspect with just the whole tour. And, you know, it just felt right. And frankly, Florida State wasn't on my radar at all. I vividly remember I wrote an essay for UCF and it was a great essay. And I copy and pasted the exact same essay. And the only things I changed were the three letters UCF and FSU verbatim. And I just submitted it. I was like, you know, I'll just apply. Like, I'm probably not going to go here, but let me just do my due diligence. Yeah. And yeah, I'd say about I think around May is when you had to decide like where you were going, if I remember correctly. It was probably less than two weeks out. I was like, OK, we're going to Tallahassee. So had you visited UCF, you have FSU?

where you were going, if I remember correctly. It was probably less than two weeks out. I was like, OK, we're going to Tallahassee. So had you visited UCF, you have FSU? Had you kind of done the traditional Florida campus tour? Yes. And was there something you felt when you stepped when you saw the campus of Florida State that was different? You explained about Gainesville. But was there something that immediate because I know a lot of kids feel I mean, I know I did with my college. But when you get to that campus, you're like, this is where I belong. Yeah, you just know. Like, did you have that feeling when you got to FSU or were you still kind of debating between maybe UCF, UF or FSU? I'd say by the time I left, I knew now, aesthetically speaking, the campus is beautiful. So that always helps. Yeah. But I think, again, just kind of sitting through their whole presentation and even having conversations with other kids at the time who were thinking about it. And again, it was a very personalized experience where it's like, what are you interested in? OK, like, let's get you here, here, here and here. And this is what we have to offer. Right. It just felt more homey. Yeah. Yeah. If that's even you know. Yeah, it is definitely. Well, when we we Nathan was young, we did some family trip. Software. He's a sophomore in high school is when we went up there. Yeah, we got there and I wanted him to check out UF and you know, all three. And we left FSU and he's like, I don't even want to go to UF. OK, just fell in love. Right. This is the place. It was instant. Yeah. So when you went first one to FSU, you mentioned medical. So is that what you started out with as far as what you declared? I have a question on top of that, though. OK.

Yeah. So when you went first one to FSU, you mentioned medical. So is that what you started out with as far as what you declared? I have a question on top of that, though. OK. Did you have pressure to go medical or is that so that's my added variable there? I wouldn't say I had pressure. I would just say it's all I knew. Yeah. It's just what made sense at the time to just follow in those footsteps. Like I still wanted to kind of add that sports wrinkle to it. But in my mind, I was like, OK, I'll just do the med school thing. I'll become a physician and then I'll be a team doctor or something. Right. Right. Right. But yeah, I was premed bio the whole shebang. And, you know, obviously rushing a fraternity and trying to do bio and chem and all the sorts of. Oh, my God. I can't imagine it was tough. No, no, no, no. So you after that first semester is when you knew, though, this isn't what I want to do. Yeah. That's when you told your mom. Right. I made the decision to, you know, kind of finish what I started for that semester. Frankly, a little bit of pettiness in me, you know, those bigger like bio chem classes where the professor kind of gets up there the first day and he's like, all right, after week one, like half of you guys won't be here. And after the second week, like another half a quarter, you guys won't be here. Right. So I was like, I'll show you. Right. Right. Right. I'm going to finish this class. Right. Right. But, you know, with all the other stuff going on, just my social life and then, you know, rushing and pledging and kind of just took up so much time. Yeah. Where else? OK, I mean, it's biology and chemistry. Like I'm not in too deep yet. We're like having these credits aren't going to really adversely affect me

of just took up so much time. Yeah. Where else? OK, I mean, it's biology and chemistry. Like I'm not in too deep yet. We're like having these credits aren't going to really adversely affect me if I want to go somewhere else. But I knew that, you know, I wasn't going to start the spring semester on that same track. Did you know what you wanted to do, what you were pivoting to? Or were you kind of like, I need to figure this out now? Yeah, it was kind of the latter. I mean, I I knew end game where I wanted to be. But like, you know, from a scholastic perspective, it was like, OK, like what major makes sense for me? You know, where can I get the most out of my experience here? Like, where can I be networked with the best? And I ended up just kind of going to sports management route. And I did get good exposure to a fair amount of like the sports programs that were, you know, at FSU at the time. You know, our basketball program was great at the time. Same with soccer and, you know, kind of had my hands in a few different things there. But yeah, it was it was a good transition to make at that time because going in, I had a decent amount of credits from high school. I did the ACE program. And, you know, there was a point where it's like, OK, like I could expedite this process. But again, I I wanted to be in college for four years. Yeah, I don't want to just blink and be, you know, 20 year old professional. Like that just wasn't me. Right. Right. Nathan did the same thing to us. He had enough credits to be done in two years. Sounds like you're in the same boat, but he went a full four years. I think it's important, though, right, at that full college experience. Absolutely. I mean, even on the back end, like my last semester at FSU,

he went a full four years. I think it's important, though, right, at that full college experience. Absolutely. I mean, even on the back end, like my last semester at FSU, I was taking like two classes. It was the only two classes I need. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so much more time to not only like spend time with people that I knew I wasn't going to be around for much longer, but also just start to prepare what that exit looked like and, you know, entering the workforce look like and have that portfolio ready. Yeah. Yeah. So you ended up doing declaring for sports medicine. Did you minor? No, just just the sports medicine. Who is it? Sports medicine or sports management? Management. Sorry. Sorry. We got medicine out. Yeah. Medicine out the window. Medicine out the window. I've got a question on that. Sports management. When you called your mom, were you nervous at all? Yeah. Hell yeah. For sure. And I mean, at the end of the day, I knew that, you know, she would take it well, right? She'd be fine. But yeah, as with any call that, you know, is kind of nerve wracking. Right. Which it off, putting it off. And it's like, all right, it's time to. It sounds like she knew and made it fine. Yes. And it's cool that she knew she knew you well enough. And she knew me well enough. She knew that that's where I was at before. Yeah, I even knew, frankly, that's a mother. But exactly. But like she again wanted me to come to that own conclusion. Of course. And again, that's that's what a mother does. A good mother. A good mother. Yeah. So did you have exposure to the FSU baseball team? My last semester, I did a little bit with them. We're on the just kind of game plan side. OK. Had some few internships with our booster program as well.

to the FSU baseball team? My last semester, I did a little bit with them. We're on the just kind of game plan side. OK. Had some few internships with our booster program as well. Just to kind of be in the environment with with this industry. It's just get in your get your foot in the door any way you can. Right. Right. Right. Whether that's selling tickets, whether that's, you know, marketing, whether that's doing something that not necessarily may be involved with the actual play on the field. But, hell, it may get you an ear shot of a conversation with someone who is in that space. Right. And that was my mindset. It was like, I'm going to be involved in any way that I can and kind of continue building out that portfolio for myself. Yeah. You know, and obviously be persistent and tenacious to a to an extent where you're not like being too overt, but you're still showing that you are passionate about this. And, you know, that I never saw it as like a fun summer camp or like I always saw it as a career. Right. So it's just not like I'm going to have fun. I'm going to be around players. It's going to be a little kumbaya. And then, you know, I'll move on the next year. It's like, you know, this is kind of what I want to sustain my life with. You know, so Florida State gave you a place where you could pursue that dream and kind of gave you that foundation to bounce off of professionally. But I think it also gave you a great experience socially, too, because you ended up choosing a frat. Right. That's right. Yeah. Which frat did you choose? Kappa Sig. And it was a huge group. I remember like the first week it was 90 plus of us. Wow. And we ended up finishing with with 49, I want to say. Wow. So there would be times where, you know,

Kappa Sig. And it was a huge group. I remember like the first week it was 90 plus of us. Wow. And we ended up finishing with with 49, I want to say. Wow. So there would be times where, you know, we'd lose a dozen kids and we didn't know who six of them were. Oh, that's wild. It was. And I know you can't tell us why. Yeah, no, that's all secret stuff. Sure. But yeah, so you guys made it. Yeah. Your group made it. We made the cut. And I mean, that that's where I made, you know, friends that I still talk to to this day, like right. Nathan included. And we still have our group chat with like 15, 20 people. And it's not like a idol group chat. Like, I'm sure when we're done recording this, I'll look at my phone and there'll be 200 notifications. Like it's a constant cycle of just communication, which is amazing. How old is that? Nathan told us that what's it like five or six years old or is it even older? Yeah, it's definitely pre-COVID. OK, so it might be just right when we all graduated. Yeah. Yeah, I think Ben was talking about that too. Yeah, yeah. That I think I I'm I'm amazed at the group you guys have and how close you all are, how supportive you all are of each other. Yeah. I think it's priceless. What came out of that frat? Absolutely. Honestly. And like we would all hang out with one another and not like live in the same building, per se, like they would come over our apartment as if it was just like one of our other roommates before we moved into the house that final year, which was an experience that I would always do again. Yes. Well, we OK, we have to tell this about the pause. Abdell and our son Nathan shared a really large room in the frat house their senior year. And we spent hours cleaning it. Right. We were scrubbing and

to tell this about the pause. Abdell and our son Nathan shared a really large room in the frat house their senior year. And we spent hours cleaning it. Right. We were scrubbing and because you had a common area. And then you and Nathan each had a bedroom or like a fake wall wall, then put up cleaning is a relative turn. I mean, when I was there, I was cleaning. Yeah. But if you've watched the movie Animal House, it truly is not a stretch. Right. I mean, that place was old living. Yeah. You know. Yeah. So but I mean, I remember scrubbing that refrigerator. And so I was exhausted. I went back to the hotel. But Brian stayed and our daughter Kaya stayed and our son Nathan. And obviously you were there and other frat brothers. And who moved the couch? I wasn't even there. Oh, you weren't there. I got a FaceTime from Nate like I was right. You weren't there when we were right. So some of the couch you moved the couch to clean. Well, the couch, you had the couch. So I moved the couch to clean. But there was a a blanket the same color as a possum and furry. So when I moved the couch and pulled the blanket up, that little possum started moving. Oh, my God. There was a possum living there in the frat house behind a couch. And no one knows how long that possum was going to bring up to. It sounds like he was rather comfortable there. Oh, 100. As if he had made it home for some time. Yeah. And then whoever the frat brothers that were living in that room before probably didn't know he was living there. Or he came in over the summer or something. Yeah, I don't know. The logic makes sense. Yeah. And then I think one of your frat brothers from Georgia came in and grabbed it by the tail and just comfortable. And a crate for it.

Yeah, I don't know. The logic makes sense. Yeah. And then I think one of your frat brothers from Georgia came in and grabbed it by the tail and just comfortable. And a crate for it. Just like it's a cat. And I'll take care of this. And yeah, right. Experience. Yeah. We're all freaking out. Somebody think I had jumped up. She jumped on Nathan's bed. And then the kids from Georgia rolled down. Yeah. Picked the thing up like it was like a little lizard. Yeah, totally. No big deal. So that that was I was really happy that Nathan waited till senior year to live in the house. But it was skeaved out by the how dirty it was. Well, I left there feeling, OK, everything seems good. And then to find out there was a possum living there. Well, even towards the end of that year in semester, I remember when we were all graduating, my parents and family were in town. Was that their first time seeing your frat house? From a distance. I don't think they made it past the stairs quite frankly. Yeah. Because again, it was this was May. So like the semester was wrapping up. It was arguably more cluttered than what it was when we moved in. Yeah, true. So, yeah, I was like, oh, this is this the house from the exterior. You know, you want to see the foyer. Great. Or the alumni room. Right. Right. Was always nice. Exactly. You go in. You make the hard left. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So kind of the facade, if you will. Yeah. No, all jokes aside, it was it was such a great experience. Like I remember one of our first, you know, nights as pledges were all sitting there and you know, you're all kind of getting nervous. Like what's going to happen? Like, do this, blah, blah. Yeah. All right. Everyone get out your phone and download LinkedIn.

were all sitting there and you know, you're all kind of getting nervous. Like what's going to happen? Like, do this, blah, blah. Yeah. All right. Everyone get out your phone and download LinkedIn. It's like, what the hell is LinkedIn? Downloading it and looking back, like, yeah, I was building a connection. Yeah. And the baseball industry since like 2015. It's brilliant. So like things like that that I wouldn't have thought of otherwise. Right. Right. No, that's that's so interesting that even in because, I mean, we went to quite a few parties at Capistek. That was a fun frat house, I will say. Great location. The location is amazing. It was on sorority row. Great location. But you would think looking at it like there's not, you know, it's like, it's crazy. But the fact that you're saying right from the start, they were giving you direction. Right. So with the direction was there, the support was there looking out for one another and like, you know, propping one another up and, you know, yeah, realizing that this was just a pit stop for, you know, our greater journey of life. Yeah. Setting ourselves up in the best way possible. And you guys continue to do that for each other. Absolutely. And I think that's a testament to, you know, people, a lot of people look down on Greek life on frats, but I think they're missing it. They're missing the point is it does create a brotherhood. No doubt. And you need that, especially through your twenties. I call the twenties like the second childhood because your twenties can be just as confusing as the adolescent years at times, because you guys are entering into adulthood, but you're still shaking off college years and some childhood. And there's expectations placed like, you know, you should get a job and

because you guys are entering into adulthood, but you're still shaking off college years and some childhood. And there's expectations placed like, you know, you should get a job and you should start your life, but you still are trying to figure out who you are. No doubt. And the frat, the brotherhood of from your frat gives you that support system as you're going through those trials and tribulations of your twenties. There's structure to there. Right. There are so many, you know, acquaintances that I met throughout college where, you know, they go to class and then it's just like, OK, yeah. It's like, well, man, I don't want to sit in my dorm room for the rest of the day and then just kind of marinate there and just days go by and months go by. And yeah, it definitely kind of gave me something to look forward to each day. Yeah. Whereas like, you know, looking back at high school, I probably keep up with maybe one or two people. And I kind of had that mindset even going into college, like, all right, like clean slate, like, you know, no one knows who I am here. I don't know who anyone else is here. And I love that. Yeah. And now it's time to kind of, you know, make new connections. And I didn't think that they would be so long lasting, but I knew relatively quickly that they would be once they started kind of manifesting. So I have a question on that's an interesting dynamic because I did the same where I grew up. The person I was in high school and a kid got to college. I reinvented myself became probably the person I wanted to be. Sure. Was there you kind of touch on that. How different was it for you, say, when you when you left Boynton to go to Tallahassee? Mm hmm. How much did that change for you? What changed it?

Sure. Was there you kind of touch on that. How different was it for you, say, when you when you left Boynton to go to Tallahassee? Mm hmm. How much did that change for you? What changed it? Did you go from being like the athletic kid to now I'm in the frat and I'm focusing on something else? What was the shift there? Yeah, I think growing up in high school was again, very just. I was almost an old soul in the sense where like I knew high school was this little four year facade and like I wasn't going to get too high. I wasn't going to get too low. Whereas with college again, like you said, I really kind of grew within myself, knew what I wanted to do, knew who I was as a person, not to say that I didn't in high school, but you know, you're you're 16, 17, your mind's on other things. So I think it was a great opportunity for me to just be out there and like rediscover myself and, you know, not going home every day and like figuring stuff out for myself, whether it was just what I was eating or like how I was going to stay in shape or, you know, paying bills, like all those things that kind of, you know, help you grow an intuitive adult. Yeah. And again, that's why I say Tallahassee was the perfect distance. I would come home for Thanksgiving, Christmas and, you know, not the most scenic drive, but but you make it happen. Yeah. But again, it wasn't like I didn't really feel the pressure really that I would have to be home every weekend, if I was at F.A.U. or something, which wouldn't have been the case just knowing who my parents are, but knowing who I am too as an empathetic person, I would probably have felt the need to kind of, you know, be around more and maybe substitute some of that, you know, social

but knowing who I am too as an empathetic person, I would probably have felt the need to kind of, you know, be around more and maybe substitute some of that, you know, social life that I did have in Tallahassee. So it was the perfect blend. Yeah. Because you have that strong family, which you're naturally gravitating to. Right. But now you're up, you know, 400 miles away of room to breathe. Absolutely. Well, if we were in the Northeast, you would have been four or five states away. Exactly. You know, the thing about Florida, it's so big that you can go to school in Florida and still be far away from you. And it doesn't feel like Florida, especially North Florida. Yeah. That's like Georgia. Yeah. Tallahassee feels way more like Georgia. Exactly. Last question on the frat front. Do you feel like looking back that your experience, the brotherhood that was created at Kappa Sig, do you think that that was similar to other frats? Like, do you feel that or do you think that was very unique to Kappa Sig or do you know people from other frats that also still have that close connection? Yeah, I think it's unique to just our group. OK. And I think that transcends Kappa Sig or frat X, Y or Z. Right. I know some friends who, you know, they still have close friends with their frat and kind of still keep in touch. If I had a guess, not to this extent, though. And I think that's just more of a testament to the group that we have. And we kind of I don't want to call it luck because we're all our own persons and we all kind of like grew together. But I think it's very unique in that sense, where even going back after we graduated now, obviously, I wasn't going to be familiar with everyone that was there at the time as

But I think it's very unique in that sense, where even going back after we graduated now, obviously, I wasn't going to be familiar with everyone that was there at the time as you kind of get removed from everything. But there was just such a unique camaraderie between that group. It's tough to describe, really, but it's something that I always cherish. And I think that, of course, it can get replicated with the right people. But I think that's what it ultimately comes down to. Everyone just kind of being on the same page and looking out for one another. And as with anything, it's it's all starts with people. Right. Yeah. Good people, good results. It's amazing that you guys all found each other there. It really is. Yeah. So have you gone back into the house since you graduated? I think once. And this would have been years ago now, maybe like 2021 or 2022. It just felt different, right? Where it's like everyone looks younger now, especially now. I feel like even when I was in high school, I feel like the senior football players were like big, strong guys. And yeah. And now I look around, they all look kind of like kids. I don't know. Right. So just kind of being in that environment. Obviously, we're not going out to the same bars that we went out as students. You know, yeah. Going to more, you know, upscale. Yeah. With working toilets. I didn't like tequila until I graduated college. I couldn't even sniff it. And then I was like, wait a second. This good tequila is actually good. Yeah. Yeah. You know, not three dollar. Well, yes. Yes. Yes. Oh, that's so funny. It is funny. OK, so you graduated. And then what was your first step out of school? Yes. So just looking for internships anywhere I could find them, I was able to get an internship

It is funny. OK, so you graduated. And then what was your first step out of school? Yes. So just looking for internships anywhere I could find them, I was able to get an internship with the complex up in West Palm Beach in a more stadium operations capacity. And I was painting walls. I was power washing sidewalks like nothing involved with what I'm doing now. But I knew that I had to start somewhere and I had to kind of get my foot in the door somewhere. And you know, at the time, like you go through ebbs and flows and it's a little discouraging when everyone's so motivated to get out of college and, you know, I got this going on. I got this sale and this and that I'm making this much. I'm like, oh, shit, I'm not making that much. Yeah. You know, I always kind of had the mindset that, you know, that stuff would take care of itself as you continue to have that upward mobility. So that was kind of my first experience in the game, if you want to say. But Covid through wrench and all that. That was a crazy time. You guys all know. And how did how did Covid affect that time in your life? What how did it change the trajectory of your life at that point? Yeah. So for starters, baseball just was on pause. Right. So, you know, I had a few things lined up after spring training of that year. And that's kind of when everything went sideways. And, you know, it was one of those where it's like, we'll be in touch, but there's nothing we can do kind of thing. And I kind of had to go back to the drawing board where, you know, I'm twenty two fresh out of college, like I don't want to be just sitting at home doing nothing. Like I know this is a very unique time right now in the world, but like I'm still very motivated to to

twenty two fresh out of college, like I don't want to be just sitting at home doing nothing. Like I know this is a very unique time right now in the world, but like I'm still very motivated to to learn stuff to, you know, get out there. So I ended up pivoting to the mortgage industry, funny enough. And for the time being, it was great. I mean, interest rates were on the ground. Everyone was refinancing. And, you know, I always knew it was a stopgap, though, where it's like I would look around and some people on my team had had been there for X amount of years. And that's great if that's your thing. It just wasn't mine. But again, for the time being, like it was an asset that, you know, people really cared about their homes, their biggest asset. So it was fulfilling in that sense where I really felt like I was helping people out by helping them save some money and in turn kind of making some money for myself. Yeah. But again, at the end of the day, it was I always try to stay involved as much as I could with baseball, just keeping up with what was going on and, you know, seeing the new initiatives and the new technologies being incorporated. And yeah, around 20 end of 2021, I decided to just kind of take a leap and dedicate all my time to the job cycle of of 2022. And and that was a little interesting in a sense, because there was about a eight week period where I had left the mortgage job, but I hadn't landed the baseball job yet. I'm just like, and make the right decision. What's going on here? But ultimately, like I came to the conclusion that if this was really what I wanted to do, and it always was that, you know, I had to just take that bet on myself and take that leap. So you went for your dream. Exactly. And I mean, it's a perfect time

really what I wanted to do, and it always was that, you know, I had to just take that bet on myself and take that leap. So you went for your dream. Exactly. And I mean, it's a perfect time if you took people in their 20s, especially if you, especially if you aren't married or have children. Sure. Go for it. Because it's really only affecting you. Right. So you can if it fails, you just have to take care of yourself without you don't have a family that's depending on you. So if you're going to take those risks, that's the perfect time to do it. And, you know, kudos to you for continuing to chase that dream. I have a question on that. How did you do that? So it's COVID we're in lockdown. You want to still pursue the baseball avenue baseball shut down. How did you where did you go? What did you do? How did you stay in touch with the technology that was going to be there on the other side? Because a lot of people might sit idle, and that doesn't lay in your next gig. So during that downtime, you continue to develop yourself in that sense or learn and progress. How did you do that in that outside of the game, I guess, in a sense? Sure. And even like to this day, I'm someone who can't be sedentary for too long. Like when the offseason comes around, I still have to find some stuff to do if it's planning for next year or if it's, you know, kind of recapping what what happened the year prior. To go back to your example, during COVID, it was just using all the publicly information that was available, just reading articles and reading up on projections and statistics and, you know, kind of building out my own thought processes. I think that's what was important for me to kind of land the next gig and the gig after that was leaving no doubt in

and statistics and, you know, kind of building out my own thought processes. I think that's what was important for me to kind of land the next gig and the gig after that was leaving no doubt in someone's mind of how I thought about certain parts of the game. And honestly, like separating the fandom aspect of it and thinking at things objectively. Now, don't get me wrong, when it's Florida State football or Miami Heat basketball, I'm still that lunatic like anyone else just, you know, cheering and screaming. But with baseball, that was a really good time for me to kind of push that all to the side, like realize, hey, like, if this is what your career is going to be, let's look at it through that lens. And obviously, like, you know, you can still appreciate talent and, you know, appreciate a good player, a good team, a good story. But again, just putting that to the side of like, okay, we're going to build now, and we're going to really try and think objectively and try and get to that goal of, you know, winning a World Series, for example. Now, did you was that self discovery to go that path for years for yourself, or just talking to uncle who's in the game and other contacts you met, or is just your in your own head in a sense, I would definitely pick his brain on things just kind of how to navigate that world. From his perspective as a player, like, you know, how would you want someone who's giving you information to kind of approach that, especially at the Major League level, where these guys are very in tune with what they need to get ready to compete. So it's almost kind of like, here are the necessary resources, you go ahead and get ready the way you need to. There is obviously some player development still involved at that level,

it's almost kind of like, here are the necessary resources, you go ahead and get ready the way you need to. There is obviously some player development still involved at that level, especially with a younger group. But yeah, I definitely picked his brain on like, what areas should I infiltrate? What areas do you think are kind of more on the cutting edge side of things? That way, you know, when, if and when I did get an opportunity to interview anywhere, you know, those things would come out. Yeah. And did you get an opportunity? You must have gotten an opportunity to interview somewhere. Yeah. So yeah, that eight week period, were you setting up interviews? Were you applying? Like, what, what, what did that look like? So I interviewed with a few teams that year, that would have been the winter of 2021 into 2022. And I remember I interviewed with the Tampa Bay Rays back in like October, November. And I didn't hear back to like the new year. So I thought that was just not a thing. Like, you know, it's not gonna happen. Whatever. Go back to the drawing board. And I just randomly got an email or call to kind of set up like a secondary interview. And yeah, I was fortunate enough to land an internship with them. And you know, I still have good relationships with those people over there, too. What were you doing in the internship? So that was my first kind of baseball operations side of things internship. So setting up cameras, like doing all the video stuff. And that was out of the complex. So I was working with a very young player population, which I love, you know, and that's kind of still my, my love today is just kind of helping those minor league guys who are trying to get to that, you know, next level. So that first year was really just kind

know, and that's kind of still my, my love today is just kind of helping those minor league guys who are trying to get to that, you know, next level. So that first year was really just kind of inundating myself with, you know, proprietary information, information that you can't just Google, and it really allowed you to kind of see things through a different lens. And, you know, a lot of it was learning on the fly, too, because at the end of the day, I did want to do my job to the best of my ability. But I definitely took advantage of just kind of the resources that were at hand to to kind of learn new things on, you know, the game plan side or on the coding side, even just things that I weren't exposed to at all before. And that was with the Tampa Bay Rays, right? Correct. Yep. And how long were you with them? So I was just with them for for a season. And it's funny enough, like, again, I keep in touch with my boss at the time. And I always kind of am grateful for him for even taking a chance on me when I didn't really have much experience before that. But it was always one of those where, you know, all the feedback was positive, you're doing great, keep doing what you're doing. You know, and I'm building confidence along the year as well. So my mindset was, okay, I'm in a pretty good spot here. You know, the season kind of comes and goes and you start putting some feelers out what's available, what may not be available. And there was a full time role that kind of got presented to me. And it's more of an administrative kind of role. And I I knew it's not exactly what I wanted to do. But hell, I had I gotten it, I would have taken it. Yeah. And I think that kind of showed through the interview process hindsight, but just kind of

it's not exactly what I wanted to do. But hell, I had I gotten it, I would have taken it. Yeah. And I think that kind of showed through the interview process hindsight, but just kind of one of those were there's a finite amount of teams, there's a finite amount of roles, right? And just kind of didn't work out. And, you know, they went another direction. And, and I was tough, frankly, just kind of knowing that I did such a good job and still didn't get that result that I wanted at the time. Yeah. Yeah. And that was there was some reflection there of what I could have done differently. And, you know, it's it's tough when they say, no, like, you did everything the right the right way, right? Right. Kind of didn't bounce in your favor. You kind of have the rug pulled out from under you. Exactly. Wait, why? So it's frustrating. Yeah, like, yeah, you're telling me I shouldn't have done anything differently than, like, right. How am I going to improve? Right. So, yeah, from there, it was just back to the drawing board, just putting my name back out there again. And did you stay in Tampa or did you come back home during when they didn't read, like, hire you? I guess, right. I was back home. So that was the winter of 2022 from like November through through the end of that year. Okay. And I remember one of our friends, Ali, we had a birthday trip planned to San Diego. You know, I'm obviously trying to be present in that moment and enjoy every moment there. But in the back of my mind, I'm like, shit, like, I need to get back to this quick and like, right, get a job, essentially. Yeah. So, yeah, that was just, again, just putting feelers out there and making it known that, hey, I'm very open to kind of running the same internship back, if you will.

get a job, essentially. Yeah. So, yeah, that was just, again, just putting feelers out there and making it known that, hey, I'm very open to kind of running the same internship back, if you will. But I don't want it to come off as, you know, this kid's just kind of going through the motions. Right. Like, again, I see this as a career for myself, not as just like a fun summer to do a video internship every year and just kind of hop from team to team. So, you know, I made that known throughout the interview processes with certain teams and the Brewers were very receptive of that. I remember vividly they told me, hey, like, we're going to give you all the resources you need. It's just about you, you know, taking advantage of them. So, yeah, that following year, 2023, I was in North Carolina with one of our minor league affiliates. And you were working with a minor league affiliate of the Brewers? Correct. Okay. So they hired you on to work with the minor league affiliate. Right. Okay. Similar role that I had in Tampa. It just was with a minor league team that traveled essentially. So there was a higher level of player. And then for me, personally, it was the day to day stuff was second nature at that point. I knew exactly what I needed to get the job done. Then it became about how am I going to use my time efficiently to start working on things on the side, start building out a portfolio for myself, start separating myself so that when, you know, the season came to an end that go around, there was no doubt in the decision makers minds that, hey, not only is this kid a good fit and we like the job he's done, but if we let him walk and he goes to another team, will this come back to bite us in the ass? And that's kind of

minds that, hey, not only is this kid a good fit and we like the job he's done, but if we let him walk and he goes to another team, will this come back to bite us in the ass? And that's kind of like the way I saw it. A question on that. Just on the business side of the baseball. So, and I'm rewinding a bit to your with Tampa and you're under contract season comes to an end. Is that is the contract structured timing wise starts at the season start and ends when the season ends for a say, a certain group of folks on the team. And then there's probably the year round, right? Is that sort of how baseball structured words you've got the seasonal contracts and then more of the, the continuous group of folks. Right. So, so the internships are definitely seasonal where it's like you go in, say January one or through spring training through the season and that'll probably run until November one. And then you're, you're a free agent, if you will, you're back at it. Full-time rules are kind of similar structure. It's just, it's just a contract. It's just like a year contract, two year deal, whatever the case may be. Now, obviously there's more security there where like you may have a one year contract, but you're already talking about years to come with, with your bosses. So you know, you're in a good spot that that can still get a little interesting or like, okay, like what's this contract negotiation going to look like for the next year? But, but a lot of it is, is year by year. Have you seen so far where because baseball, all sports, right? You've got the ownership and then they hire the operations guy, maybe someone above the GM, right? To help manage their portfolio of investments. But then you've got the GM and the operations guys. As you get

ownership and then they hire the operations guy, maybe someone above the GM, right? To help manage their portfolio of investments. But then you've got the GM and the operations guys. As you get into this, as they change, do you, just the whole thing below them change as well? Is it kind of vertically integrated like that? Or do you think in, is there level within the organization that stays consistent? So just for some context, this, this past year, we had three new assistant general managers. So there was a lot of like internal movement and that does kind of trickle down like throughout the entire department. And baseball is such a small network of people where, you know, a move on one team could affect another team. Because if you get hired for a higher up role, you're going to bring a few guys with you. And that's going to open some spots somewhere else. And again, that was just from my perspective, like leaving no doubt in, in their mind that if, you know, just the way the ball didn't bounce in my direction with Tampa, if somehow circumstance went in my favor, this next go around, then there would be kind of no, no doubt in their mind that this guy is perfect for this role, if you will. So there's definitely upward mobility there. And that's, that's something that I enjoy about just kind of being dependent on. Yeah, so I forget a couple of pages for this I read recently about though. Knee story. So, so that's a really technical, diagnose our management management and it's meets our Aj systems. So your, yeah, just the payroll, right? No one's going to match the Yankees or Dodgers payroll. Sure. But then there's also that trickle down within the org of the operational side, they'll have bigger teams. So the payroll

within the org of the operational side, they'll have bigger teams. So the payroll is not just the players, but it's the whole organizational structure of the staff. It's the infrastructure, it's the investments on technology, it's the investments on the biomechanics side. You know, we got this pitching machine this past year and it was our first time getting it and come to find out the Yankees have like seven of these things. Oh, no kidding. And they're like, they're expensive machines to the point where like you don't buy them outright, you lease them for a few years and it's a pretty penny. So just examples like that of they have more built out because they do have more resources. I can only speak to my experience, but it's pretty damn fulfilling when you win at a disadvantage. If you will, a little guy, correct? Yeah. The little guy doing big things. Yeah. Does every team feel like the little guy compared to the Yankees and the Dodgers? I think there's something to be said about that. Like again, that's it's not even close, just the amount of resources that they have just monetarily speaking. Yeah. Now again, if in my the way I see it, if you invest in good people and good scouts and good coaches, you're gonna get the best out of your players. Yeah. And the way Major League Baseball is structured, there is some competitive balance there where, you know, say if you lose a free agent to, you know, a team, you're gonna get compensated with an extra draft pick. Yeah. So there are ways to kind of supplement that. But yeah, winning is addicting at that level, frankly, just like a random game in June. It's euphoric, really. Right, right. No, that makes sense. So then at the end of your time with the minor league Carolina

addicting at that level, frankly, just like a random game in June. It's euphoric, really. Right, right. No, that makes sense. So then at the end of your time with the minor league Carolina Mudcats, Carolina Mudcats, you had set yourself up hoping to be retained by them. Sure. Right. So what happened? So that was that was an interesting winter because I was essentially talking to the Brewers three different ways, like for three different perspective roles and three different departments. So I wanted to make sure that I wasn't necessarily getting anything out with the conversation I may have with you and then go to someone else and talk about another role. Now I knew at the end of the day, back channel conversations were being had. But that was kind of an interesting piece to navigate. And I remember the first role that essentially gave me a call, hey, we're gonna go to another direction. Frankly speaking, it was kind of the lowest leverage of the three roles that I was kind of gunning for. Yeah. So in my mind, I was like, well, if I didn't get that surely it's because something else was in the works. Right. So I had a feeling I was in a good spot. But then again, I had a feeling I wasn't in a good spot the year before, too. So until you get that clarity, it's it's tough. Yeah, there's there's an unknown there. So yeah, it kind of went through the interview process there. And the role that I ended up getting I didn't even know existed until the morning that it was offered to me. Oh, interesting. So I remember I was watching a movie. It was towards the end of the night. I was sipping on a glass of wine just talking to my mom. Then I get a phone call from like one of our directors and he's like, hey, are you gonna be free to hop on a call

sipping on a glass of wine just talking to my mom. Then I get a phone call from like one of our directors and he's like, hey, are you gonna be free to hop on a call tomorrow? Me and one of our AGM's and you know, the ball starting to roll down the hill. He used like a cryptic term like that where I was like, what the hell does this mean? Like surely can't be bad. Right. Like we're in a good spot. Right. So yeah, next day I hop on the call and they offered me to be full time, just kind of like a tech assistant with the major league group who was part of the traveling party. And it was frankly something I just I couldn't say no to like I I always kind of had my sights set on, you know, long term goals, medium term goals. But this gave me a perspective to be in a clubhouse and be around coaches and be around players at the highest level and provide them with information. So yeah, it was it was surreal. I didn't really expect to kind of be a part of the major league group so soon. Like with that being my first full time role, really. Right. Because how old were you when that was 26? I would have been 26. That's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing. And again, it's just something that I didn't expect. It was one of those where, you know, we had some some movement from one team to another. Some higher ups went elsewhere. They took some other people with them. Some people went elsewhere and it kind of opened up a void. Now, granted, like I do acknowledge that circumstance was involved. But at the same time, I do acknowledge that I put myself in that position to where it was a no brainer for them to even look elsewhere. So it was it was a whirlwind, really. So what do you do? Like, what's your job? He doesn't know. It's one of those jobs

position to where it was a no brainer for them to even look elsewhere. So it was it was a whirlwind, really. So what do you do? Like, what's your job? He doesn't know. It's one of those jobs where it's hard to explain. So I can explain it. It might take a little bit. Or can sum it up for. Yeah. Yeah. So so I work a lot with the technology that's involved that our major league team. So I'll be in the replay room during the game. So if there's like a close play and, you know, the umpire says one thing, we think it's the other thing. We'll make the phone call down to the dugout. Like, hey, we should go ahead and challenge. OK. I'm talking more on the collaborative side of things, a lot of like game plan preparation. So it's kind of using the information from upstairs that gets crunched and just kind of projecting what our best match ups would be, how we should attack a certain pitcher, hitter, vice versa, and then kind of presenting that information to the coaches and players. Now, again, at the big league level, a lot of these guys are, you know, they know exactly what they need, like I was saying earlier. So you just kind of like, here are the facts. You do with it what you will. There are times where it's like, hey, we shouldn't do this. And then the first thing they do that and then hit a home run or down one nothing. You're just like, what? And at the end of the day, like you learn that once the game starts, you really have no control. It's up to the players to execute. And it's all about the players at the end of the day. If there were no players, I would be at a job. No one would have a job. Right. Right. So, yeah, a little bit of everything. I like to say that about 80 percent of my day to day, I know what I'm going to get

players, I would be at a job. No one would have a job. Right. Right. So, yeah, a little bit of everything. I like to say that about 80 percent of my day to day, I know what I'm going to get myself into. And then there's kind of an unknown there as well that that I love because it does break up some of the monotony. I might be in the batting cage one day. I might be in the bullpen with pitchers the other day. So are you are you helping with like player development with I think it was either you told me one time when we were talking or Nathan did that you're using like technology to look at help a pitcher see that their arm is dropped too low or it's up to you high or it's right. And then you help them adjust that. Right. Right. That kind of part of what you're doing. Absolutely. So I'd say even the inverse of that is what I do even more, which is look at the opposition and notice those differences. OK, interesting. Present that to our hitters and be like, hey, you know, so and so, like you said, their their arm slot might be higher on a fastball versus a curveball. Their leg might kick out this way versus that way. They may show their grips from second base tells if you will. Crazy. That are very much legal if you're relaying it without technology. So if it's something that you see beforehand, you know, you can present that as much as you want, as long as it's not being relayed in real time, if you will. That's fascinating. And there's even biomechanical data there, too, where it's just a skeletal breakdown of a pitcher and just any subtle differences is picked up on and, you know, kind of relayed to players as well. There's obviously a fine line that you don't want to just kind of inundate players with

of a pitcher and just any subtle differences is picked up on and, you know, kind of relayed to players as well. There's obviously a fine line that you don't want to just kind of inundate players with information, especially we have we have a very young group that's just kind of breaking out in Major League Baseball. So it's just, you know, present the information. Let's not inundate them with it. But there's a lot that goes into it. And that's an interesting thing you mentioned that the coaches and players probably already know what they want to do for the game. Right. You guys bring their data to them. How is that say communicated and received? It's like, here's your report and and they can do with it as they wish. Or how's that kind of transpire? Yeah. So so there's reports and like, again, with a young group, a lot of players will just look at reports on their phone, which I find fascinating. I don't know how I would just look at something so complex just on a phone screen. But we do a lot of visuals to like we'll have certain proprietary angles of pitchers from behind home plate so they can kind of see what that looks like from the batter's box. And that'll be running in the cage throughout the day, as well as just, again, what their tendencies are, what to look for simulator. Right. And that goes back to our pitching machine. Glad you brought that up. Like, it's fascinating. So it's a pitching machine and there's a projector on the ground and it projects a visual of the pitcher like firing the baseball. Wow. And the release point will change left, right, up, down, depending on where, you know, well, the pitcher you're facing that day is who it is, right? Correct. Yeah, that's a little easy. So let's say you're in the

left, right, up, down, depending on where, you know, well, the pitcher you're facing that day is who it is, right? Correct. Yeah, that's a little easy. So let's say you're in the bullpen and we see you on Friday. It's like, all right, Brian Barker's back warming up. And it's Sunday. We can even bring that data from the at bat that you had against them on Friday. And you can essentially relive your at bat before you go out and see him again on Sunday. Yeah, that is amazing. You might have answered a question I have. I love baseball. I've always been my favorite sport. But it's when you watch the broadcast now, maybe you're answering this. Those guys know what the what the pitcher just threw instantly. They know they either threw a change up, a curve, a slider, fastball, two seam, three seam type. How are they using this technology you're talking about? Are these guys just geniuses talking about the broadcasters and broadcasters? I think there's been such a movement in just data and recognizing pitches specifically what they look like when they move. What that profile looks like. So I think once you get once you sit through a baseball game or two, they're very distinct shapes. With a smart baseball person. Sure. For sure. And that goes without saying, I mean, I don't blame anyone who's doesn't really know much about baseball and make them sit through a three hour game. Like I would get bored if I didn't know what was going on. Like I'll call a spade a spade. But yeah, there's so much nuance and intricacies with it because the end of the day, it's a hitter has split second to react and make a decision. Yeah. And it's such a reactionary action because the pitcher controls what he wants to throw and where he wants to throw it.

a hitter has split second to react and make a decision. Yeah. And it's such a reactionary action because the pitcher controls what he wants to throw and where he wants to throw it. And just kind of maximizing that time for the hitter where it's like if we can kind of pick up on something before that pitch is even fired and get you in a better position, even your own movements, right? If we can kind of best sequence you to go from your back half to your front half and like really be fluid with how you swing a baseball bat. It's another advantage. And how far so so much of the game has changed from being your average country kid in the U.S. trying to go into the big leagues. There's a whole system now and much of it does start offshore. And so how far does the technology go down to see into the Dominican where you are, where you're scouting kids, not just scouting, right? They're building there's whole complexes. Yeah. And it's like they're growing kids, developing kids and then bringing them how far down into the into that process does all this technology go? So, again, not not to bring up the Yankees again, but they're at it. They've got everything down there. You know, we're we're slowly but surely trying to build more of an infrastructure. We we just redid our entire complex this past winter. It's a beautiful facility. And like you said, yeah, guys are down in the Dominican. And each team has one. And it's, you know, more than just developing them as baseball players, but as as people to what to look for. You know, when they do get stateside, how to handle your finances, how to handle the things like that to where, you know, they aren't completely shell shocked when they do. Are they being taught English?

to handle your finances, how to handle the things like that to where, you know, they aren't completely shell shocked when they do. Are they being taught English? Yes. And again, there's only so much you can do to kind of simulate that. Yeah. Once you go from, you know, all knowing a small town and in the D.R. all your life. Yeah. You know, now you're in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Yeah. Yeah. What the hell is going on? Right. So kind of just keeping them in tune with who they are, but also instilling value careers where it's like, listen, you know, this is a great step that you've made to get signed and be in this position. But, you know, we think your journey is just beginning. So you can just continue to hone in on that work and on that dedication, then, you know, because it's not going to come instantaneously. It's not going to come automatically. Some guys think that they can just kind of go through the motions and year over year, they'll just write, I'm a year older. I'll be in double A now and I'll be in it doesn't work like that, especially this day and age where, yeah, frankly, one of our best players is he hasn't turned 21 yet. Right. So, you know, there's there's outliers. And it's also recognizing that as a player, you can have a career in baseball that goes beyond playing like, yeah, it's coaching if it's being in the front office and, you know, if it's being involved with technology. So kind of getting them up to speed with all the resources that we do have because the numbers speak for themselves. I mean, it's really tough to get signed as an international free agent at 16 and make it to the big leagues. The numbers aren't in your favor. You know what that that flow through rate is. Is it like five percent? I'd say it's less.

as an international free agent at 16 and make it to the big leagues. The numbers aren't in your favor. You know what that that flow through rate is. Is it like five percent? I'd say it's less. Yeah. OK. Close to three. Yeah. And the reason for that is there's just the sheer. So each team has a minor league roster of about 180 players. So sheer volume alone. And, you know, teams kind of do tend to group players into certain buckets, higher priority guys, organizational filler guys, depth guys. So if you have a hitter who you value and he's nineteen twenty and double A, you know, you need to round out a staff of other players to kind of go through that season. Now, mind you, that entire team may not make the big leagues because that's just kind of the way the cookie crumbles really. Right. But that doesn't mean that you can't sustain a life for yourself with a career after baseball. Right. So it's kind of also instilling that in them, too, where, you know, this is where you're at now and this is your passion and this is your life now. But there's life beyond baseball. You're investing in them as people. No doubt. So do you think that's unique to the Brewers or are all the teams major league teams investing in them and their people the same way? I'd say it would behoove each team to do that. You guys certainly are. We definitely do. And I mean, at the end of the day, it's like you're almost investing in an investment because it is a business at the end of the day. Yeah. You are paying these guys. You know, results do matter. Production does matter. But at the end of the day, like there is definitely some value that that we take joy in and just kind of building these guys up as people as well. It's hard being away from your family

But at the end of the day, like there is definitely some value that that we take joy in and just kind of building these guys up as people as well. It's hard being away from your family and, you know, going completely for culture and country and especially if you're young. And I assume that they probably bond together, too, without a doubt, you know, to support each other. And do they assimilate pretty well, though, into American culture from what you've seen? Yes and no. I mean, there's we sometimes have to rely on our nutrition departments a lot just to kind of point them in certain directions because a lot of these minor league cities and towns, you know, by the time the games are over, the only thing that's open is like Wendy's. So it's like, how do you kind of maintain these guys in that regimen? But, you know, I think with it being and even just this newer generation, I feel like kind of is more like I've seen players who don't speak English and players who don't speak Spanish somehow communicate fantastically and they make it work and they're the best of their friends. So that's always awesome to see. Now, obviously, you're going to have like, you know, your English guys on one side, your Spanish, like that's kind of how the way it goes. But, you know, we try our best to kind of make them comfortable in that environment. But again, like it's it's a grind and players aren't dumb. They know, like once the summer rolls around, the draft comes around and more players get added and the roster crunch, you know, gets squeezed in a little bit. So they start to press and they start to get stressed a little bit and just kind of keeping them cognizant of hey, keep keep doing what you're doing. Let's let's not worry too much about the

So they start to press and they start to get stressed a little bit and just kind of keeping them cognizant of hey, keep keep doing what you're doing. Let's let's not worry too much about the stats you see on M-I-L-B dot com because those aren't the stats that we're using to make decisions at the end of the day. Do you have like a therapist or psychologist on staff to kind of deal with the mental health aspect of it or are they kind of assigned a mom? You know what I mean? Sure. Yeah. To help them with some of that stuff. So we have our own psychology department built out like mental performance. I think we have three minor league psychologists on staff and we have one in the big leagues as well. So, yeah, they definitely have, you know, a platform to kind of vent, if you will, just talk about life. And, you know, I don't know what goes on in those conversations, but just kind of from. But it's there. It's the resources and, you know, being familiar with some of those people on staff. I know they do a good job. So at the end of the day, it's it's it's kind of a over not almost overwhelming, but, you know, it's so new for them. So it's kind of just, you know, make them aware that, hey, this is just one step in your journey. And like you may and baseball's a sport of failure. Right. 100 percent. Yeah. You can't get frustrated after, you know, a strikeout or two strikeouts or a week of bad play. It's just always going to ebb and flow. Yeah. Do you find that even that for some that maybe their baseball career ends, do they stay here or do a lot of them go back home? Some of them like will have flights arranged for them like to go back to their respective countries and they just won't show up to the flight. They want to. And that. Yeah. So, yeah,

Some of them like will have flights arranged for them like to go back to their respective countries and they just won't show up to the flight. They want to. And that. Yeah. So, yeah, it's just kind of an unspoken thing that, you know, they have family somewhere and they're fine. Yeah. But yeah, that part's a little it's a little tough because it's like, you know, where is this guy? You want to make sure he's OK. Right. But then at the end of the day, you you kind of come to the conclusion that he probably did what's best for him and for his family. You want to say so I'd say that's that's a pretty big hit rate in minor league baseball where guys get released and they just don't go back home. Yeah. Interesting. What do you what's your perspective on American young men, boys and young men and their potential to still make it in the MLB? Do you think it's still a viable dream? How it was maybe when Gen Xers and Boomers were growing up and, you know, like Brian played baseball and if he wanted to play in college, he could he could have kept pursuing that. Sure. But I feel like now. The maybe the American young men and boys, it's not quite the same playing field, if I could. Does that make sense? Well, you're spot on. And it's it's just because baseball's it's an international game now. Right. Of course. Back when I was a kid, probably even maybe it became more international as you were growing up, but it was just an American sport. Right. Right. Right. Great players from Japan that are, you know, all over the place. It's international. That ties into my question. Yeah. 100 percent. Yeah. So what what's your perspective on that? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, no doubt. I think the love of the game is still there. I think there's something to be said

Yeah. 100 percent. Yeah. So what what's your perspective on that? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, no doubt. I think the love of the game is still there. I think there's something to be said about just kind of playing different sports and just being athletic in different ways. I think five, 10 years ago, if you threw 90 miles per hour in high school, you were getting signed. No questions about it. Now, everyone's throwing ninety five plus. There's just been more of an accelerated timeline. Yeah. But I think has has put an unfair kind of view on uncertain players, like unfair expectations is a better way of putting it to where it's like if you're 15, 16, like you don't have to be that developed as a player. Like you are still very much green. But I think there is a certain pressure that you have to hit a certain benchmark because, you know, you're seeing this kid on TICTOK throw ninety nine miles per hour. So if I don't do that, then I'm kind of shit out of luck. I think it all comes down to structure at the end of the day. Like if you truly have a passion for the game and you're truly talented, there will be an eye or two on you. Like you'll you're not going to get lost in the shuffle if you're that good. Now, I do think there's something also to be said about, you know, having realistic expectations for yourself, too. Like I'm not saying that everyone should be an eight year old like me and realize they're not going to be in Major League Baseball, but like find things that you love, like find other avenues to fulfill yourself. And that's with baseball. Great. If that's something else, even better, I think it's equally as important to find out what you don't want to do. And I kind of went through that process. Even in the workforce where it's like I

If that's something else, even better, I think it's equally as important to find out what you don't want to do. And I kind of went through that process. Even in the workforce where it's like I thought I wanted to be a scout, I thought I wanted to travel and do this, that. And I came to the conclusion where it's like, well, I kind of pride myself on having conversations and like building relationships like I don't want to be on the road by myself nine months out of the year like that. I didn't know that until I saw what that life was like. Exactly. So I think it's just getting out there advocating for yourself as well. Yeah. I think nowadays a lot of like younger kids especially just want everything so instantaneously. And they think that, you know, if they just kind of check a box, things will just fall on their lap. Like you got to go get it at the end of the day. Are you seeing that with the younger Gen Z's? Because they start at see Dylan's 14 and it goes as 2012 is the youngest. That'd be 12. So you're looking at ages what, 12 to 17. Are you seeing that the work ethic isn't quite as strong as it has been? So I've interviewed a few intern candidates now. They would be a little older than than the age group you just mentioned. But even with them and just having conversations with them, it almost felt like, you know, this was a given for them. Like I'm going to go through the interview process. I'm going to get a role because I graduated school and this is how it is. And it's like that would be great if that was the reality. But but it's not like it's a very highly competitive environment and you do have to separate yourself and and even just have a conversation. Having conversations like about what they want to do. And there seems to be a

competitive environment and you do have to separate yourself and and even just have a conversation. Having conversations like about what they want to do. And there seems to be a lack of substance almost. And again, each person's different. Each conversation is different. But just speaking more generally, I feel like there's some lost perspective because there's a thought that if I do this, then this is just automatically going to happen. And that's how the way that's how the way the progression should be. It's like, well, each road is very different. And you might catch luck here and you might not see, you know, another conversation for like months. And that's fine. And that's just you have to be persistent the way I see it. Yeah. Was that something you kind of learned? Like so when you got into this, did you think, OK, this I'm interested. I've got a sports management degree from a good university. I should be able to land any gig. And then it wasn't until see the the raise experience of shit. This is really isn't I got to separate myself. Or did you kind of know that going in? I had an idea that it was going to be an uphill battle and I wasn't going to be able to just coast uphill, if you will, like I had to put the work in. I also never really wanted to pull the you know, I have a family member who plays a baseball card either now, you know, organically, if that comes up in conversation, then great. And you get to know me, then great. But same thing with the Spanish. I was never the type to be like, hi, my name is Abdel and I speak Spanish like a great kid. I mean, everyone speaks Spanish here. Right. Right. So, yeah, I knew that again, there's only 30 teams. There's only so many spots. Yeah.

name is Abdel and I speak Spanish like a great kid. I mean, everyone speaks Spanish here. Right. Right. So, yeah, I knew that again, there's only 30 teams. There's only so many spots. Yeah. It's just the way I saw it was continuing to kind of push the envelope and, you know, best best I can show people that this is something I'm really passionate about and really dedicated about. And that's only going to help them in the long run because I'm just trying to be part of that bigger collective. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it took, say, obviously, Covid, the re-wrenching of things, but two years before I even kind of got in. And I mean, I still, you know, I'm very far away from where I want to be. But, you know, as long as I continue to see that upward mobility and right now I do, that's kind of all I can ask for. And speaking then about the younger Gen Z's, what you're seeing is they don't necessarily see the reality of of the uphill. Sure. And I'm wondering if is that a societal thing? Is that from parents, you know, creating entitlement or is that social media and having that instant gratification from? Yeah, I'm wondering, you know, because I have seen other people say that the some of the younger Gen Z's they're hiring are just not cutting it. Yeah. They're having they're struggling with the grind. Right. Whatever career they're choosing, they're struggling with the grind. So I'm I'm wondering, like, where's that shift? Yeah. What did that is it? Is it for I mean, it's obvious some of it is the way you're raised. But I'm wondering how much individual. I think what I'm listening, you know, obviously I'm part of this conversation, but you're you're laying out some huge nuggets for any kid or even parents

But I'm wondering how much individual. I think what I'm listening, you know, obviously I'm part of this conversation, but you're you're laying out some huge nuggets for any kid or even parents advising their kids on just a career progression and how to land a gig, how to continue to improve yourself to to separate yourself. Those are all the things that are critical. Right. I mean, I'm I'm excited for you because you're you're just doing it and you're still young. So those opportunities haven't just landed yet. You haven't had enough time to go chase them all. But it's exciting because I think you could be a GM someday and whether you want to go there or not, or some equivalent, because I think you're doing all the right things. You're working your ass off. You're working while people are sleeping. You're paying attention. You're you're student of the game. The technology. Those are all the things that as parents, you know, you have to part on your kids to you can't be lazy. Nothing's hand it to you in the world. To the earlier point around baseball, not baseball is not just an international game. The world's an international game. Sure. If you get into tech, you're competing with people in India and offshore. If you get anything you do, it's the world's just bigger. Right. That we're no longer confined to our borders. So it's. Yeah, I mean. And I think to like once you do land the gig, just kind of realize, OK, now is when it starts. Yeah, it's not like, all right, complacency should set in now that I got this. And we're all by. Yeah, it's like now the work really begins. Yeah. And that's a mindset that I've always tried to kind of keep close where it's like, OK, I'm in a great position. I'm not going to sit here and say that

work really begins. Yeah. And that's a mindset that I've always tried to kind of keep close where it's like, OK, I'm in a great position. I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm not. But the end of the day, you know, I do want to continue growing and learning new things and eventually becoming a decision maker with leverage. And and that takes time and that takes experience. And that takes openness to to be wrong on things and to fall on your face and to realize what works and what doesn't. And I think, again, just to go back to that instant gratification point, like there would be times where, you know, some prospective candidates would reach out saying, hey, like I applied to this and the third and I haven't heard back yet. You know, what should I do? So when did you apply? Oh, you know, three days ago. Like, man, like it's a process. And you have to understand that. And there are going to be ups and downs. And trust me, like I understand the waiting game sucks, like not being in the know of anything sucks. I'm someone who's very intentional with with how I feel and what I say. And, you know, I don't really like ever being in limbo with anything. So I get that. But at the end of the day, you know, you have to trust your work and your grind and, you know, everything else will take care of itself. Put yourself in that position is my mind. I think you're also touching on humility. Humility is so important. And that may be a missing piece, too, with some of the younger generation. So humility, I think, is and self-awareness. Right. Those are those are two huge things in my short experience. Just being with the Major League Club, it feels like everyone who is a part of it, that wasn't their main prerogative to get to the big leagues.

are two huge things in my short experience. Just being with the Major League Club, it feels like everyone who is a part of it, that wasn't their main prerogative to get to the big leagues. It was they're good people. They know what they're doing. They know how to work with players. And that's just kind of how it all played out. Yeah, it wasn't that like, oh, I'm hell bent on on getting to the big leagues. And I feel like if that's the case and you eventually do get there, then there's going to be this kind of false sense of of almost being let down. I mean, don't get me wrong, like, you know, it's it's awesome being a part of a team and like day in, day out going through the grind. But I feel like there's also like this misconception of everything being so glamorous. No, like we're putting in work like hours after hours. Like these players aren't showing up 30 minutes before the game. Smelling nice, looking good, rolling out out of bed, like 7 p.m. game. They're getting to work by like noon. Right. Right. What we see on TV is like the final production. Correct. Well, it's funny because it's you're touching on you never want to meet your hero. Sure. Because they'll always disappoint you. But now you're in the big leagues. It's doesn't sound like you're totally disappointed, though. Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. And it doesn't feel like work, frankly, which I think is that's amazing. The best part of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's wonderful. I recognize that it is my career. But at the end of the day, I I look forward to it every day. And it doesn't feel like a burden to get up and go to work. That's wonderful. It's funny out. My grandma will always give me a call and be like, oh, like, where are you guys at? What city are you guys in?

burden to get up and go to work. That's wonderful. It's funny out. My grandma will always give me a call and be like, oh, like, where are you guys at? What city are you guys in? Oh, you know, we're traveling to this place or that place. And typical grandma kind of feeling bad. Oh, poor thing. You're always on the road. It's like grandma, you know, the bus is pulling up right to the plane on the tarmac. I'm sipping on some red wine. Like, yeah, your grandson is doing. Yeah, you're fine. You know, with with that being said, the so if a game starts at 705 on Eastern Standard Time, sure. The players are out there by, say, noon, right? Or one ish. What when does your day start? When does your day end? Because you're behind the scenes getting these guys ready. Right. For what they're about to do. And then analyzing what they just did so they can prove upon the next one. Right. Sure. So do you sleep? The sometimes the way the way we kind of go about it, our manager likes to say twelve to three is player development. And then four to seven is when tonight, where it's just you're hyper focused on the game at hand. Twelve to three as a player, you get all your treatment done. You take care of what you need to do early work if you have it. For me, you know, 7 p.m. game, I'm I'm probably there 1030 or 11 a.m. if we're at home. If we're on the road, I always take the first bus to the fields, probably closer to one depending on what the day looks like. But it's always an ever constant thing because you're always kind of looking ahead to the next series. You can't just show up to the next series and not have anything prepared. So yeah, by the time we're flying out of a city, we have all of our documentation ready for for the next series ahead.

You can't just show up to the next series and not have anything prepared. So yeah, by the time we're flying out of a city, we have all of our documentation ready for for the next series ahead. I sleep in the offseason. I try to. But frankly, like after a big win or even after a big loss, like you're you're so ready to get back at it the next day. Yeah. I try and just give myself the night to like Salk in a bad loss. And then the next day is like, all right, here we go. We've got a new game. And that's what I love about baseball is just the sheer number of games where you don't really have the opportunity to just like bask in a loss for a week. Like, no, you have you have a game the next day. You have to shift immediately. Right. So are your days averaging eight, 10 hour days? Say 10. 10's a good number. Depends. I mean, baseball's one of the one sport that doesn't have a clock. Yeah. We have a pitch clock now, which kind of does accelerate things. But, you know, you may have a two and a half hour game. You may have a four hour game. Right. Game may go into extra innings. You might have a night game getaway and you're flying to another city on the East Coast that same night and then you turn around and you have a mat and a game. So I think being aware of the schedule is huge. Just kind of not looking too far ahead, but knowing kind of what the next two weeks are going to look like. So you're probably what? Just trying to get at least five hours a night if you can. My mom would not like that, but try and get at least six to six. I don't want to expose you, but I'm already doing the math and then, you know, every year not much. I mean, on flights, I'll I'll sleep a good amount. So you probably sleep when you can. Yes. That's pretty much where

already doing the math and then, you know, every year not much. I mean, on flights, I'll I'll sleep a good amount. So you probably sleep when you can. Yes. That's pretty much where you're in like survival mode. Right. I'm sure you try to eat decently to keep yourself healthy and level head. That part's awesome. Just kind of being in proximity to like our our chefs and our nutrition staff. Right. You know, not only eating well, but like healthy as well. Right. Right. Right. Whereas, you know, Tallahassee, it's just so what's oh, yeah. What's next on the menu here? Nothing compares to Tallahassee. So as far as travel, because I noticed you said you realized you didn't want to be one in the position where you were traveling nine months out of the year. But it feels like you do. Sure. So are you in my mind? I feel like you travel except for when you come home Thanksgiving through New Year's. Yeah, that's right. But by travel, I meant more so traveling alone like as a scout. Whereas I would kind of be my own mission man. OK. OK. Traveling with the team is different. We're like, you're kind of part of it. And that camaraderie is there. But also like, you know, you can see your work being directly affected almost by a result of the game. I'm not saying that I'm directly affecting wins and losses, but you're part of the team. You're part of the team. OK, yeah. So your life is travel. We're on the move a lot. Yeah. And this two months upcoming will be the kind of the most time I'll ever have. Just, you know, being in one place for one location. Are you going to be in Milwaukee or in Arizona? So I'll go out to Arizona later this month and I'll be out there until. Is that their spring training? Yeah, it is. OK. So I'll be out there until

Are you going to be in Milwaukee or in Arizona? So I'll go out to Arizona later this month and I'll be out there until. Is that their spring training? Yeah, it is. OK. So I'll be out there until the beginning of the season. This offseason, they kind of gave me some leeway to go home as much as you want to this and that. But I did kind of want to be present in a way to up in Milwaukee, where she got to get to work with some groups that I wouldn't get to work with during the season because everything, you know, starts moving 100 miles per hour once games start going. But yeah, once once the season's going, we're on we're on the bird a lot. You're on the right. So Milwaukee. But when I picture Milwaukee at this point, I think it's probably a pretty cool town, like there's some cool areas. Have you had a chance to even explore Milwaukee very much? Not up until these past few months when the season ended. OK. So during the season, it's just stadium apartment apartment stadium. Right. And, you know, there's are so very few off days. So the off days that you do have, that's kind of when I get to sleep. Yeah. Yeah. So now that, you know, we weren't playing games and I was up there for the better part of October and November, I I did kind of get to explore a lot. And it's a great city. I mean, the people are very nice. A lot of Chicago kind of like filters up. So there's a lot of influence there. The lake is beautiful. Summers are beautiful. Seventy. I mean, I would say I'm kind of spoiled in the sense that, you know, during the season, I'm eating very specific things. When I come home, my my grandma wants to feed me all the time. Right. Right. So I wouldn't say it's as up to par with what I know. Right. But it does kind of force me to kind of

When I come home, my my grandma wants to feed me all the time. Right. Right. So I wouldn't say it's as up to par with what I know. Right. But it does kind of force me to kind of make food for myself and get out there. That was kind of a point that I made this past year was like, all right, I I need to start like cooking for myself. Right. Just let me shadow you, grandma or mom. Like, let me just be in the kitchen and see what goes on. Because it's easy to just come home tired and you just order something good. That right. Is she making like traditional Dominican dishes? Oh, yeah. How what does that compare to? Because we're pretty spoiled down here. Sure. With, you know, Cuban food or even Mexican food or Argentinian food and Brazilian food. I'm not aware of a ton of Dominican restaurants. You had to point us to one. But are there that we're missing out on? There's a few that I know there's one up in West Palm. There's another one down in the Coral Springs area. I would say from at least like, you know, when family makes a meal, it's more so the preparation and like the herbs and the spices and the seasoning more so than the actual meal itself. Like I could go to a Dominican restaurant and order the same meal that my grandma would make. And I'll tell you right now, it's not going to taste this good. Made with love. Exactly. And that's what she says. I mean, there are there are meals that my mom admits to this day that she can't make as good as my grandma does. Grandma's love is in there. It's an ingredient. Correct. It's all definitely. So do you even have your place furnished in Milwaukee? And or is it just really a landing pad to sleep when you can and exist? But your life is really it's a work in progress.

It's all definitely. So do you even have your place furnished in Milwaukee? And or is it just really a landing pad to sleep when you can and exist? But your life is really it's a work in progress. I'd say now it's it's very much more homey than what it was when I first moved in. Funny enough, I got my keys the same day that we were headed out on a road trip. So it was like, got my keys, dropped my bags off and we're gone. And then we're coming back from that same road trip. And some people are like, man, I can't wait to get back home and sleep in my own bed. And I'm just like, no, it's Ritz Carlton sounds much nicer than the air mattress. I got waiting back for me. But my sister graduated from college this past May. So I was like, hey, I'll I'll fly you out. But like, come help me furnish this place. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're slowly but surely putting it together. You got a woman's touch that exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But it's you know, I try and kind of make it as comfortable for myself because the day I do want a comfortable place to come back home to. Yeah. But there was also a fine line of like, all right, I don't want to be paying an arm and a leg each month for rent for a place that's going to be sitting idle half the time as well. Right. So that was a good little balancing act. But we're making it work. So out of all the travel you've done, is there a city that really stands out? That you have fallen in love with? I love San Diego. I see a lot of parallels with South Florida with like the the environment and just kind of the people. And frankly, that's something I need to be better about this go round of just kind of exploring the cities that, you know, we go to. Frankly, this past year, I was very just kind of hyper focused on on the task at hand.

about this go round of just kind of exploring the cities that, you know, we go to. Frankly, this past year, I was very just kind of hyper focused on on the task at hand. And now that I think that, you know, I've built some relationships and I have some familiarity. I'm not going to be as on edge as I say that I was this past year. Chicago is beautiful. I like Boston a lot as well. There's some exciting ones that we didn't get to go to this year that will go to next year, like I haven't never been to Toronto. I'm excited to go there. I enjoyed Dallas. So what about what about gone otherwise? Yeah, what about stadiums? You know, Fenway is obviously iconic. Fenway was awesome just because like all the history there. You get the tour of the Green Monster, you get to sign it. And the same path that goes from the clubhouse to the dugout is the same tunnel that's been there for like 100 plus years. Amazing. The floor is always wet. It's a little like soggy. But like you think about just the names and people that have walked through there. That was definitely surreal. Wrigley as well. I'm not going to speak too highly of Wrigley on the Cubs because they're one of our rivals, but just the historical. Stadium is cool. Exactly. Exactly. And then San Francisco Stadium was beautiful. Just being right on the Bay and like really tough to hit there because everything the wind is just swirling all over the place. But that was a newer facility. Mm hmm. Right. In baseball terms. Yeah. Yeah. Relative to the Fenways of the world. We went to a game of candlestick years and 30 years ago, I guess. Nineteen ninety three. Kind of sanitary innocence. Yeah. But if you candlestick the old stadium. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. That was cool. It was cool. Yeah. San

and 30 years ago, I guess. Nineteen ninety three. Kind of sanitary innocence. Yeah. But if you candlestick the old stadium. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. That was cool. It was cool. Yeah. San Francisco was an interesting one. I remember one of the coaches and I, we took a scooter to the Golden Gate Bridge and it was really nice. And then we decided to take one of those. I'm not sure if you guys are familiar, but they're called the Waymos. They're essentially like self driving Ubers. Yeah. Yeah. So they crash every now and then. Yeah. They they don't give a shit about anyone else on the road. Like if they're trying to make a right turn, they're in the middle lane. They're just they're going. So we're in one of those headed over to to dinner and we're stopped. At a red light. And it just so happened to be that, you know, was a block that was kind of popping off for lack of a better term. There was a lot of interesting individuals in San Francisco. Right. So you couple that with, you know, a car that's got no driver. They start peeking in the window like, what the hell is going on? I'm looking at my buddy like getting surrounded. Let's have this light turn green and let's get the San Francisco experience. Absolutely. But the travel aspect is awesome. Just like I've always loved even just traveling nationally, like throughout the country. Like I've always just known kind of the East Coast. Yeah. So just to go to different places has been awesome. Now it's a great opportunity. So where do you see yourself in five years? What's your five year goal? Yeah, I think with what I'm doing now and just kind of having the perspective that I have now being down in the clubhouse, being with players and coaches, I eventually do want to transition

Yeah, I think with what I'm doing now and just kind of having the perspective that I have now being down in the clubhouse, being with players and coaches, I eventually do want to transition upstairs to the front office and kind of have more of a decision maker type role where I can kind of continue to be that liaison and, you know, relate to the nerds that are crunching the numbers and then also relate to the players who are, you know, executing what we want them to do, so to speak. I still have an affinity for the minor leagues. I think eventually get to a point where where I can kind of lead that operation and be a farm director in some and some sorts. It's funny because my Carolina team in twenty three, all kind of moved up together the following year to like the next level. So speaking of FOMO, there was a little bit of FOMO there for me because it was like, man, I want to be a part of this group. Those are my guys. Like I'm seeing them get better. So I try and keep up with our minor league system as much as I can and and just kind of, you know, provide my perspective because, frankly, not many people get to kind of be with a group of players day in and day out. And now, like as an evaluator, you can know who a player is, what they're good at, what they're not. But having that added perspective of what makes them tick, what they need to get to compete, you know, what, you know, they really what really grinds their gears, I think, is equally as valuable. So just kind of trying to present that. And ultimately, along the way, if we get a World Series ring, that would be awesome. Definitely. The the minor leagues, too, though, for a team like the Brewers is huge. Absolutely. That's how you guys build your team without any

a World Series ring, that would be awesome. Definitely. The the minor leagues, too, though, for a team like the Brewers is huge. Absolutely. That's how you guys build your team without any good guys like the Yankees come in and pluck your best players and share with these huge contracts. You Brewers are not out on the free market market in a big way, right? Right. A lot of it's developed a lot of our a lot of our resources that we wouldn't use to sign free agents. We would invest, you know, into our scouts and to our player personnel departments into finding those players on the amateur circuit so that once, you know, we sign them and they're a part of our organization, then there is an advantage there. We definitely pride ourselves on, you know, continuing that pipeline internally because that's only going to create more value, not only for the player, but but for us, if we can then go to the Yankees and be like, hey, like, look at these shiny prospects, you know, kind of come to a deal. If you work with the minors, are you is it as much travel? No, so most minor league. So there's there's different leagues within minor league baseball that are much more close to one another. So we're talking like one or two hours on a bus versus like, you know, cross country. Now, if it was like a more of a coordinator type role where you would get to travel to each minor league affiliate, then that would definitely be baked in. But as far as like day to day, no, there's nothing really compares to what you're doing right now. You got to game in Baltimore, then you got to game in Oakland. Yeah, you got to game in Dallas and you go to Miami. So yeah, but it's the travel different to where in the majors, you might be at the Ritz minors, you're

then you got to game in Oakland. Yeah, you got to game in Dallas and you go to Miami. So yeah, but it's the travel different to where in the majors, you might be at the Ritz minors, you're at the Howard Johnson's or something. No doubt. And and it's funny because the more I've kind of was around players and I don't want to out anyone and call anyone a diva, but, you know, as with anything, humans adapt, right? And they get used to their environment and they know what they like and they know what they don't like. And we'd be at like a relatively nice hotel. We're staying at hotel acts. I'm like, man, I thought this place was nice. Yeah, perspective, perspective. But I'm always the type of person to where it's like, you can put me in a gold penthouse and I'll think it's awesome. The first and second day. And then by day three, it's just my house. Right. Right. Nothing. That's how hotels are. Right. Yeah. So I mean, you're at a great age to be doing all this travel and the wear and tear on your body when you're young, you can handle that a lot easier, I can say, than for somebody our age. But there are people that have been doing this for 10, 20, 30, 40 years. Have families married, have families. Have you observed for the people that have been in it, how how they adapt to the wear and tear of the travel to being involved with their families with all the traveling? Have you have you been an audience to any of that yet or been exposed to that? Yeah, a little bit. It's definitely a sacrifice. Right. Like I'll I'll see coaches who they might find like a five, 10 minute window while they're on the field, like during batting practice to like sneak in a call to their wife or to their kids. Right. I think it's equally as important that,

10 minute window while they're on the field, like during batting practice to like sneak in a call to their wife or to their kids. Right. I think it's equally as important that, you know, the significant other and the family is aware of what that life kind of brings. Doesn't make it any easier by any means. Right. Right. Right. But I think you just got to pick and choose your spots and really enjoy the time that that you do have. Now, it's good that there is an off season and it's kind of built in that way so that, you know, they can kind of go back home and spend those those few months with their family. Again, I'm in a position where, you know, I don't really have anything kind of anchoring me with your age. Yeah. Right. So it's great. Yeah. I felt that it was important for me to like stay up in Milwaukee and continue doing what I'm doing. But yeah, I think it's just valuing the present and, you know, obviously it starts with loving what you do. Right. Knowing that there's an ultimate goal to this. Right. Now, from what I also saw, like once summer kind of rolled around, you know, people with like younger kids, like they would kind of bring them around and they would be a part of the team. So they kind of travel their spouse would travel. Right. There would be family trips that were designated and like, right. The plane would be like packed with kids. OK. That's like in the middle of the season. Yeah. Like June, July. Cool. It's cool until you get the sniffles from. Yeah. Oh, it's like 40 kids. That's so true. But so their home base could really be anywhere because their spouse is traveling so much. We have coaches from Texas. We have coaches from Wisconsin, coaches from Florida, California. And then that's where

could really be anywhere because their spouse is traveling so much. We have coaches from Texas. We have coaches from Wisconsin, coaches from Florida, California. And then that's where they'll spend their off season. That's where they go home. Right. OK. I see. I see. Yeah. And as far as I guess the lack of sleep and stuff as they get older, they just adjust all that, right? Yeah. That's that's something I I would like to improve on personally. But yeah, I think it's just something you have to manage. Part of it. Like especially during the season, you have to pick and choose your spots. I mean, I grew up outside of New York, so I know of four families, two associated with the Yankees and two at the Giants. Coaches for the Giants. Those guys didn't sleep during the season. They would be at the facility till whenever. Right. They'd come home. They'd be gone before school started. Right. So it was work your ass off. Right. And I know it is exactly. And that's kind of what our manager tells us to. He's yeah, he essentially likens our roles to those of like offensive linemen. Like no one talks about the offensive linemen until something goes wrong. So you go up to the line of scrimmage every play and you create holes for your star running back. And the star running back in this case is just our players. Right. You put them in the best position and, you know, he's straight up with us about it. And I agree, too. It's like you'll never get any of the credit. And that's fine. And that's just the way it is. And I don't want any of the credit. You're behind the scenes. Exactly. And I love it that way. Yeah. Yeah. And then on the offseason, that's when you really have to take advantage of that downtime. Absolutely. And that's something I've kind of

And I love it that way. Yeah. Yeah. And then on the offseason, that's when you really have to take advantage of that downtime. Absolutely. And that's something I've kind of learned, you know, these past few weeks and months where it's like, OK, like I know you're anxious to kind of get back at it and, you know, start thinking about twenty, twenty five and, you know, how we want to attack the year, but also acknowledging it's programmed to have this downtime because this downtime is so valuable. Balance. Right. Relative to what the season brings. Right. I don't know if that would be my advice, though. And I don't think you're taking that advice for yourself. And I say that because you're young. Well, now is your chance to burn it. And and it'll help you in the long term. I'm not saying don't. Right. Yeah. But and I don't think if I said don't, you would listen to me by any stretch of the imagination. And I don't think you are because your mind is constantly going. Right. From what I'm hearing. I think now is the time to do it because then if you get into more of that operational front office thing, maybe you don't have to travel as much. You may not like that, though. That may not be your calling. You know, this is where you figure it out. Right. And I think I would want to be able to be in this role and travel now versus 15, 20 years from now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, I do end up getting a more kind of homebody role where I can kind of have more of a structure. And that's great because that I would assume at that point in my life. And that's something that I would need. Right. Right. And again, I'm not saying to just like lay low the entire off season and not do anything. I'm still very much at work.

And that's something that I would need. Right. Right. And again, I'm not saying to just like lay low the entire off season and not do anything. I'm still very much at work. But, you know, there are times where it's like, you know, 3 p.m. on a Friday. It's like, OK, let me go lay out on the hammock for 20. Yeah. Like, yeah, I deserve that. You don't want to burn out. Right. Yeah. And you want to have that balance. So. OK, so I have to say one of my first impressions of you, which you're going to probably think I thought was bad, but it was it was at our youngest son's communion party, which he would have been, I think, seven. So that was seven years ago. So you would have been what, 19 or were you a freshman, maybe in college? Probably like second or third semester in college. Yeah. And Nathan, our older son, brought you home. Well, you know, you were down here at home. He came over for the party. Yes. And we had a great party. It was so much fun. Yeah. And we all drank a lot. And it was it was a blast. Let's not leave out that this was like you guys had recently moved into this. We had just moved in. Yes. We had just moved in. And and as college kids do, you guys enjoy yourself. And not only did we indulge, we started kind of mixing, which I think was what led to my downfall. Yes, we started. And I think you're going there. I think you blacked out at a child's communion party. Sure did. Drinking gin. The beer was fine. The tequila was once we turned to gin. That's when things started. Yeah. South. Yeah. You're like, holy crap. This is your first impression. I had already known a doll for years. I think so because I don't because you had gone up for those dad, Kapisig, dad, golf weekends and stuff.

This is your first impression. I had already known a doll for years. I think so because I don't because you had gone up for those dad, Kapisig, dad, golf weekends and stuff. Yeah. So I spent some time like at the older house and I had been. Briefly, right. I think this was my first like hang out all day. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'd seen you like, oh, it's good to see you. Let's get to the impression part here. So and then, you know, you you ended up, you know, getting sick in the bath. Right. And I'll defend myself a little bit here. I saw it coming. I felt it coming. I was I was there on time. And again, like we talked about, I love it. I just didn't execute. Right. I the task was right there at hand. And for some reason, the physics just didn't work out. It didn't work out. But and it was in the guest bathroom. And I had just bought new rugs because we had just moved in. Right. And so then we did it. Nathan came and got me. And so we we did a cleanup and everything. But the reason one of the I already liked that. But one of the things that really sensed it for me was before I even came out the next morning out of our room, it was early. I went into the bathroom and he had woken up on the target, I think. Sure did. And bought me brand new rugs. Yeah. Yeah. And that would have been before I even came out of my bedroom. It was solved. It was it was solved because we threw with the way I was blacked out drunk. And I said an alarm. You said an alarm. Yeah, you said an alarm. I mean, I think I mean, otherwise I wouldn't have woken up at six in the morning. Well, you never know. Sometimes when you're drunk, you wake up at like four in the morning. Because your body. But the integrity of that, you know, I

woken up at six in the morning. Well, you never know. Sometimes when you're drunk, you wake up at like four in the morning. Because your body. But the integrity of that, you know, I was so touched because I was not. I was impressed. It was unnecessary. You know that. And it was unexpected, but I would never have expected you to do that. But it was just so it was so touching that you just thought of that. And it just showed how much you respected us as a family, respected me, that you understood. Obviously, you you've been raised along a sister and you're close with your mom. You understand how women might feel about things. They decorate their house with, you know, and that you took the time to solve that so quickly. Just meant so much to me. And that was my first real impression of him. And it was so positive. And I think, too, like it wasn't even like you said, I didn't necessarily feel indebted to do that. No, I hope not. The respect that I had for you guys and just the friendship that I valued with Nate and, you know, yeah. The funniest part for me was coming back like subsequent times afterwards. And the runs are there. My decorations were still there. Oh, I was right. I wasn't moving those. I was like, those you could have picked orange and you picked a great color. You picked blue. But you could have been like, they're there because that it meant so much to me that Abdell's rugs are staying. Nathan wouldn't have even done that. Let's be real. So I hope he would have done it, though, if he did that at someone else's house. But no, it meant a lot. So that's that's my friend. And you've been a wonderful friend to our son and a wonderful person always to have in our home and a wonderful friend to our daughter.

But no, it meant a lot. So that's that's my friend. And you've been a wonderful friend to our son and a wonderful person always to have in our home and a wonderful friend to our daughter. I think you were always your family. Yeah, your family. But Nathan started bringing Kaya to music festivals when she was 15 before it was even legal. She had to get a fake ID saying she was 16. And I think you and all the guys were there and always helped keep an eye out for her. She quickly became just one of us. Yeah. And I never felt I felt she's protected. Like if Nathan wasn't around, one of you would watch out for her. And you've always been so good to Dylan. So, yeah, 100 percent part of the family. So it's been a joy to, you know, watch and experience and hear about your success as you've chased your dream and all these accomplishments, because Nathan keeps us up to date on what's going on. I appreciate that. It's been a joy to watch. And you deserve all the good things that come from it, because obviously you've worked so hard as well. No doubt. And, you know, I'm not down here often, but, you know, when I do, I always try and get down here at least once, because, yeah, you guys are family and it feels that way. And 100 percent. It's been cool. Like I was telling you guys earlier, this is the first time I've like been in this room in the house. Yeah. Now it's like a whole set up. It's yeah. Yeah. No. I would feel honored being on the pot. Now, we love having you. We love having hearing your whole story and up. And also it's now it's recorded for you. Sure. Something to look back on. Right. Because we would love to have you again, like in a year or two years and see where you're at. You breathe kind of a nice way to to keep track of how far

Sure. Something to look back on. Right. Because we would love to have you again, like in a year or two years and see where you're at. You breathe kind of a nice way to to keep track of how far you've come and right back. And, you know, and maybe if you have children down the line, you can show them this, too. You know, it's kind of cool. Yeah, I'm always thinking like that. I know. I was thinking the same thing. It'll be cool to come back in a next year, a couple of years, five years, whatever it is. And yeah. And even where you're at, see like how you thought about things. Yeah. Back then. I think about things now. Yeah. Oh, it's perspective is ever changing, right? Yeah. As your life changes, your perspective changes. And then there's things that always stay the same. But yeah, no. And to see, wow, I really come so far. I didn't think I came as far as I did. But looking back, I have. Yeah. And that's not as perspective, too, that I try and be better at. We're just like it's OK to kind of take a step back and acknowledge the accomplishments so far. Now, don't get me wrong. Like I'm still still seeing myself in the very beginning stages of like just life in general. But I think it's also good to just take some time to realize your accomplishments along the way to 100 percent. I mean, you're only twenty seven and that's very young, even though, you know, it's you've got you've gotten so far since you graduated from Florida State, but you still have so much ahead of you. But you really are so far for your age. Right. So you should be very I know your parents are proud of you and your sister and your grandma, but you definitely should be proud of yourself because you especially going through covid. I think that you guys graduated from FSU

parents are proud of you and your sister and your grandma, but you definitely should be proud of yourself because you especially going through covid. I think that you guys graduated from FSU or from all the kids that graduated from college in like a year later, we're on lockdown. Talk about throwing a wrench into starting out your life. Absolutely. And it can it can affect mental health. It can affect so many things. And so for all of you to persevere the way you did and then to continue on and find success. I mean, that was to come right out of school and have that be your first experience with real life. It was tough. Sucks. It was like a built in rut almost. One hundred percent. I mean, it was shocking for those of us who've lived twice as long as you guys. So to come out and be like, I'm ready to start my life. And then for the society to say, no, you can't yet take a back seat. I mean, the frustration that would come from that alone. So I commend you for, you know, weathering that and still continuing on with your goals and your dreams. And it's been it's I can't wait to see where you're at in five years. Thank you. I'm excited for you. I'm excited, too. And I always just kind of try and obviously acknowledge and enjoy the present and just continue to have an eye on on what's to come. And it's exciting to kind of look ahead a little bit and to kind of keep growing and keep learning. So yeah, I'm glad that you guys are always kind of a constant to come back to. We always will be 100 percent. And you have this wonderful family, your family to ground you to. I think that's so important. Absolutely. So and we can't thank you enough for coming on and sharing your story. Oh, the pleasure is mine. This has been awesome. It's sometimes it's asking a lot of

I think that's so important. Absolutely. So and we can't thank you enough for coming on and sharing your story. Oh, the pleasure is mine. This has been awesome. It's sometimes it's asking a lot of people to tell us about your life. So we appreciate you taking the time to do that. You guys letting me to do that, because I mean, frankly, obviously, you know what experiences you go through and you have that. But to have like a platform to kind of speak on it and then as you speak on it, almost start to realize, wow, like that was kind of cool. Yeah. Otherwise, I wouldn't have thought about it as it's happening. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. It's very cool. So thank you to our listeners. I hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll visit with Adele again in the near future and we can all together hear where he's at at that point in his life. So we'll see you next time. Thank you. All right. Bye.