# Episode 16 - GenX Speaks Series: Jasmin's Story

- Podcast: GenX Adulting Podcast
- Published: 2025-01-20T02:00:00.000Z
- Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/16466235-episode-16-genx-speaks-series-jasmin-s-story.mp3
- Page: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/transcripts/podcasts/genx-adulting-podcast/episodes/episode-16
- Source: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/episodes/genxadultingpodcastepisode16.html
- People: Brian Barker (host), Nicole Barker (host), Jasmin (guest)
- Topics: GenX Speaks

## Summary

In Episode 16 of the GenX Speaks Series, Jasmin shares her personal journey of growing up as a military brat, navigating cultural shifts, and redefining aging for women. She discusses her experiences with career, motherhood, and the challenges of maintaining relationships while embracing her identity and self-worth.

## Key takeaways

- Jasmin grew up in various countries due to her father's military career, which shaped her adaptability.
- She faced significant culture shock when moving from Europe to Niceville, Florida, during her senior year of high school.
- Jasmin emphasizes the importance of self-identity and self-worth, especially for women as they age.
- She discusses the challenges of balancing career ambitions with family life and the societal expectations placed on women.
- Hormone replacement therapy and self-care practices have played a crucial role in her approach to aging.
- Jasmin highlights the importance of open communication in relationships, particularly during midlife transitions.
- She advocates for women to reclaim their energy and prioritize their needs as they navigate life changes.

## FAQ

### What challenges did Jasmin face when moving to Niceville, Florida?

Jasmin experienced significant culture shock moving from a cosmopolitan life in Europe to a small town in Florida, which was a stark contrast to her previous experiences.

### How does Jasmin view aging for women?

Jasmin believes aging should be redefined positively, emphasizing self-identity, self-worth, and the importance of self-care practices like hormone replacement therapy.

### What role did Jasmin's upbringing play in her adaptability?

Growing up in various countries due to her father's military career helped Jasmin develop strong adaptability skills, allowing her to navigate different cultures and environments.

### What is Jasmin's perspective on communication in relationships?

Jasmin stresses the importance of open communication, especially during midlife transitions, to ensure both partners feel heard and valued.

### What advice does Jasmin give to women regarding their needs?

Jasmin encourages women to reclaim their energy and prioritize their needs, advocating for self-identity and self-worth as they navigate life changes.


## Referenced links

- [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY1_TSVUrFw)
- [Listen on Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-16-genx-speaks-series-jasmins-story/id1764838823?i=1000684632226)
- [Listen on Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1pJ2bjAgLyNOQizFjcZ9Vv)
- [Listen on Buzzsprout](https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/16466235-episode-16-genx-speaks-series-jasmin-s-story)

## Transcript

[Music]
Welcome to Genex Adulting. Today we have
Jasmine with us and in addition to
sharing her story she's also going to
share with us her outlook on how she
views aging for women and how she's
redefining that and sharing that with
other women she knows. But before we get
into that we always ask our guests what
year were you born? 1966. 1966 so you are
Genex. I'm Genex. You are Genex. Yep. You
just made it in. I just made it in.
What's the cutoff? 64. Oh is it 64? 64
yeah. And where we were
born? I was born in Madison Wisconsin. Oh
cool we've been there. Yeah. That's a
cool town. Yeah I only lived there for
six months out of my life. Okay so you
don't remember? Yeah no my dad was in the
military. Okay. He was
stationed there. Okay.
And I've never been back. Okay. Okay.
Yeah no. Yeah okay cool. So you moved a
lot then I assume. Yeah. So where did you
go after Madison? I think we
ended up going to Germany. Wow. And then
the Netherlands and then Washington
State. Okay. Arizona. Virginia. And we
lived in the
Netherlands and Germany for a
huge chunk of my life. Like I moved back
to the United States when I was 17 a
senior in high school. So you spent most
of your all your
formative years overseas.
That's so interesting. My mom's Dutch and
so that's what my dad always
requested getting stationed in Germany or
he would go away to like remote duty
for a year like to Alaska and Thailand so
we would go live with my grandparents
and we would go to international schools.
Okay. And yeah so probably from I think
seventh grade to 11th grade. I lived in
Europe. Oh wow. So
which branch was he? He
was in the Air Force. And was he a pilot?
No. He was what honestly we don't really
know what my dad did because he was like
kind of top secret. Like you know like
when we lived in Arizona my mom said he
would go to work at night and they would
get he would go to that area. Area 51.
Yes. No way. Yes and
he would go with what
blindfolded but what he his he would say
he's just tactical and radar. That's all
we really knew what he did but no he was
not a pilot. So he went to area 51 and
would have to wear a blindfold. But and
he obviously could never tell you guys
anything. Yeah never. Or your mom
probably. No. That is fascinating. And my
mom just told us that
recently like like probably like five
years ago. Just like you know out of the
world. So where did they meet? So funny.
My mom and dad met in a
bar in Belgium. Oh wow.
Okay. And I've been to that bar actually.
That is so cool. It's
called the Queen's Club in
Belgium and my dad was the GI and my mom
was like you know a young local girl.
Right. And they you know they dance
whatever they dated
for like three months.
Okay. You know back then. Yeah. And then
they got married and and and he was
deploying coming back or back to the US.
So okay that's when they went to Madison
Wisconsin. So when they then she could
come over because they got married right.
Right. So and then so you grew up
overseas so you would have come back here
right at the end of high school. My
senior year of high school I moved back.
How was that transition? Horrible. I
can't where did you
go? Niceville, Florida.
Okay. So I lived in Europe and it was
like punk and Pat
Benatar and very trendy.
And then I moved to Niceville, Florida
where people wore t-shirts had said I
lost my husband to hunting season. Where
is Niceville? It's up in the panhandle.
It's two hours west of Tallahassee as a
matter of fact. Yeah it's
in between and actually.
It's almost Alabama. It's they call it
Lower Alabama. But the largest Air Force
in the world is Eglin Air Force Base and
it's at Niceville,
Florida. I never knew that.
So you went from this cosmopolitan
diverse life to Niceville, Florida.
So that that alone would have been a
complete nutter culture shock and then
you're starting high school. My senior
year. Which I assume it was a small high
school. I don't really remember but it
was a combination of
military kids and local kids.
So military kids are just used to
assimilating. You're used to
being the new kid. And I mean
that's why I can go anywhere. You can
drop me in a room and but
it was a big culture shock.
It was hard like my senior year because
you know you are popular in your school.
I was a cheerleader and I listen to now
you're like the newbie and the newbie
with a Pat Benatar haircut.
Right right right right. And so you were
super cool but maybe not
everyone there totally realized.
Yeah. So would you say for kids whose
parents are in the military
that moving that often is a
benefit in your later years as you become
an adult or do kids
typically yearn for that stability of
being in one place because they move so
much. I mean I personally
yearn for being a want to be
to being in one place because I moved
around so much although I had a great
childhood and I really
adapted well. I mean next thing you know
I was wearing flannel
shirts. I mean I will adapt to any
environment. But like my brother and my
sister they had a really hard time.
They're both introverts
and academically my sister struggled
because even though we were in the
military has a school
system called the Dodds school system
which is the Department of
Defense. And when we have these
military bases they have you know their
their teachers and such
and it's a whole program but
you know they have the exact same
upbringing that I had and they're very
very different and they
didn't have the best experiences like I
do. And they're they still
live in the same town. They're
very introverted. They are they younger
than you. Yeah. OK. So how old
would they have been when they
So my sister is 18 months younger than I
am and my and my brother's
three years younger than I am.
So you and your sister both started high
school and then he would
have been in middle school when
that happened. Yeah. So they have they
are they still there. Yeah.
Oh so they're nice. Yeah. Wow.
So they settled. So yeah they settled. My
my brother actually joined
the Navy and then got his
education through the GI Bill and now he
is a software engineer. He
works for a private company
that has a military contract. OK. And so
and then my sister works
on the base in child care
development. It sounds like for them
though it's perfect like they like you
said they're introverts
and they're in one spot and they're
comfortable with that. So
kind of worked out for them. Like
they needed that. Yeah. I picked up and
moved because I was like
I'm not living in a small town
moved to Miami. Why did you choose Miami.
So I had a really good
friend who was from Miami and she
I went to visit her and I was like this
is where I want to be and I
loaded up my Honda Civic. And
what year would that have been. That was
19. I think 89 or 90. OK.
And that was the Miami Vice
years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I didn't
get exposed to any of that. But but but
listen everybody you
know I was a drug dealer. Right. I mean
honestly like it wasn't it
didn't phase anybody if you knew
some everybody was affiliated. So it
wasn't a cliche. No. It
wasn't mainly coke or was it all
drugs. Actually like I dated this guy who
was like a drug smuggler. Yeah.
Marijuana. Wow. Yeah.
I mean it's funny you say that because
one of Nathan's best friends in high
school his dad used to be a
drug smuggler. Remember that. I don't
remember the name but he was a pilot and
he was bringing in weed
from like South America. I forgot about
that. He actually spent time
you know he got caught. Yeah.
I have a friend who he went to UF his
older brother got caught and back then
they were really I don't
know if they still are now but back then
they were really really harsh on that.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it
was very common for anyone in Miami to be
dealing drugs smuggling
drugs. That was just very normal.
It was very normal. I saw the city was
built. Yeah. Yeah. That's what
they say. So so I how did you
get settled there. You did you know what
you want. Well did you go to
school down there. No. So it's
interesting. Like when I was answering
your questionnaire about the you know
things so no I didn't go to
school down there. I I did not graduate
from college. OK. And I just had to like
come clean and tell my
kids that it's been my like shameful
secret for a really long time even though
I climbed the corporate
ladder and I was super successful. I had
to like tell my kids that. So the story
is no I dropped out of
college. I moved to Miami and I started
working and when I was in college I
worked three jobs. Where did you go to
college. I went to a community college up
in nice nice and then I was transferring
into U.W.F. OK. And I was
working three jobs to go to school and
then I went to visit my friend in Miami
and I was like you know I'm
blowing this taco stand. Yeah. And it's
my biggest regret but but you did fine.
Yes. I'm like I don't know if I would
have worked as hard as I did in proving
myself had I had I graduated college. But
it's still my biggest
rep. But so I moved down there. I dropped
out and I lived with my friend and got a
job and got you know two or three
jobs and just lived that Miami lifestyle.
And then I met a guy. Yeah. And we moved
to North Carolina. I mean I had a very
colorful. So wife. So you pack up. You
drop out of college. You pack up. You're
like I'm going to Miami. I'm going to
just have that adventure. You live with
your friend. When you worked down in
Miami was it related
at all to what you ended
up doing or was it just you were just
taking jobs. So I was like I worked for a
German airline because I spoke. I
speak German. Oh yeah. And that lasted
like three months. And then I got a job.
I just got a lot of
administrative jobs. OK. And then
I moved to North Carolina. And why did
you move to North Carolina. Because the
guy that I was dating got arrested for
dealing drugs. This is the guy. This is
the guy. And he wanted a fresh start. He
had his like seed
money. OK. And we moved to
North Carolina and he actually did. He
started his own business. There was like
a video. He took
video depositions. Like he
worked in the legal field. So he could
get arrested and still get a job and
everything. Yes. I mean I
don't really like did he
didn't go to jail. Like he got off. He
got off. OK. OK. And so what did you do
in North Carolina. So
I landed the job of my
first time I got went to work for this
broadband technology company as a temp in
the H.R. department. OK.
And for a woman who was like
everyone in my job my bosses in my whole
life been predominantly women who've
climbed the corporate
ladder. But she I worked for her
for three months and I was had to
interview for the job. I had I did not
know how to use a computer
but we had Max back then that
you could zip up and take home because it
was like the screen was at the top and
then they and so I taught
myself how to use the computer.
What did this have been like the early
90s. This was yeah probably like 1992 93.
Like the old word processor. Yes. Not
like a computer but you
would type it in it would print to it or
something. No like it had a little disk
because this was a Mac and it was like it
was like the bottom part
was like you put a disk in and the top of
the apple to. OK. That would. Yeah. And
but you could put it in a little thing
and portable thing and
bring it home. So I would go home. I
don't even remember how I trained myself
how to use it but I did. So you taught
yourself. Yes. And I had some
computer experience back then was
WordStar. I don't know if you remember
that but in WordPerfect and all that. And
I interviewed she had me
I did not I was not qualified but I
worked for her for three months. I
interviewed against qualified candidates
and her former assistant.
HR assistant and I got the job. Wow. And
it changed my life. Yeah. You know.
That's amazing. Yeah. Because even back
then I know now everyone
requires a college degree.
Just even work at Macy's it feels like I
need a college degree. Back then was it
as predominant as a requirement. Well
when I went to work for that
company she hired me one of the
stipulation was they had tuition
reimbursement. And so I had to commit to
her personally like that I would do it
and I was going to go back to school. But
then after working there I don't know
maybe two years I moved back to Miami. Oh
OK. OK. And did we leave the guy behind.
No we went back with him and we were he
and I were together for quite a while but
I then went to work for an HR consulting
firm and it was a firm. So this is back
in the day when there was like Ryder and
all these big companies were merging with
other companies and downsizing.
So I got this big project to work down at
Burger King headquarters and manage their
whole outplacement. I was trained people
how to interview. I would help them write
resumes. A lot of times I had imposter
syndrome. You know how did I get here
because I don't have a formal education.
How did you know you have to tell people
even though back then there was no way
for them to look it up.
You have to produce a document. So I
really don't know how and sometimes I
would I would feel like an imposter. How
did I get this job. So after that I
always had a job when I was recruited to
all the other jobs that I did. And so.
So just to go back real quick when you
were in North Carolina was your
motivation. Were you looking for another
job down in Miami. Were you wanting to
get back to Miami. What was the
motivation to. Was it the job offer.
No no because I didn't move back for a
job offer. I think what happened was
after Hurricane Andrew and the guy his
family he came down to help and his whole
family was in Miami.
And so then he stayed and then I didn't
really have anybody up in North Carolina.
So then I went back out. And then you
know I had to start over and like and
find find a job. And it's amazing that
you went down there.
And what you know you didn't go from one
job to another. And you and you still
landed with such a great place. And
that's why it's like some like sometimes
I talk about it now like I used to walk
around being so ashamed.
Like only certain people in my company
knew only people hired me and I would
just never I would never talk about
college or go down there because I didn't
want to lie. But I didn't want to talk
about it either because I was like a
shame. It wasn't even
embarrassed. I was ashamed.
Then like when I'm now like I'm just
sitting here talking to you or I talk to
my kids like I really accomplished a lot
for somebody who yes you're weird. These
kids that was when college was like
everybody went to college and you know my
dad was so disappointed in me.
And you know it was just a lot of
whatever. But did he always want you to
go to college. Oh yeah. Like he was. But
also you know he financially couldn't
help me. And so it was like a lot to work
three jobs and go to school.
And he was retiring from the military and
going. So it was just like family stuff.
But but instead look at now you probably
see it as you were this badass woman.
Yeah. But I realize you know at the time
if you think about it like what you
accomplished without that
college degree right is amazing.
I'm curious just to go back. You said the
job in North Carolina changed her life.
How so I gave me knew that experience
because it was I didn't really have a
direction to know what I was doing. I was
a good administrative assistant. Yeah.
But it was a I did HR for 20 plus years
after that position. So this woman took a
chance on me and it took it. And by the
way that was like when HR first became HR
because before it was personnel.
And it really was not about employee
relations and things like that. It was
really about managing benefits. It was
just it wasn't what it is today because
you know now that we as we start living
in a more litigious environment whatever
like you needed to protect yourself.
I learned almost everything on the job
and had amazing mentors who like took me
under their wings and most of them were
women until like the very end of my
career. But that's amazing that you were
also during that time surrounded by so
many women because during the late mid to
late 70s and 80s is when women were
really entering the workforce.
But then you're talking about late 80s
early mid 90s probably to have that many
women around you so quickly when it was
really recent that women were
establishing themselves is is amazing.
It's really very very cool. Yeah.
It's historical
really in that sense. Yeah.
I mean listen like I looked I'm right now
going to enter the workforce again. I
haven't worked in seven years and so now
it's even more competitive. I've worked
for seven years and I don't have a
college degree. So I'm currently taking
this certification that
will it's like the CPA for HR.
And I videotaped it the other day because
I'm doing during the classes. The guy
says most companies a lot of big major
companies are dropping
college degree requirements.
And the reason why is for a multitude of
reasons. But the main thing is the most
college students college grads recent
college grads are not qualified.
So they have degrees so big companies
like Google Microsoft they have to put
them through a whole training
program. Anyway, number one.
Number two most organizations would not
consider moving someone within an
organization to an exempt position a
salary position if they
didn't have a college degree.
But now they're realizing that you know a
lot of people who come up who work and
don't have an education have our
exemplary employees and so they should
give in chances. So this was in my HR
certification class.
And I was like oh my
gosh you know and and and so
I want my kids to go to college because I
didn't finish but you know part of my
story is that I didn't finish college and
And you were still able to find your way
and still able to be very successful.
And that means you know anybody can like
you just write you have to be given the
opportunity to believe in yourself. Like
I really wanted to show my dad.
You know because he was very disappointed
in me and I was like I'm getting out of
this small town and I'm going to make it.
Yeah yeah.
Did he come around to you know I don't
know. No I remember one time I was I was
interviewing for this big position. It
was a newly I've always been in a lot of
startup organizations.
And he said you know what you should do
is you should call them and you should
tell them that you'll take twenty
thousand dollars less because you don't
have a college degree.
Whoa.
He just kept throwing
it back in your face.
And I was like no I won't. And a year
later because it was a pilot position for
a company that just had gone public.
I wrote him a letter and I said not only
did I get a bonus I
just doubled my salary.
Good for you.
So you know I'm he maybe him push like
doubting me and making me feel
bad really just challenged me.
Right.
I realize now that I'm just saying that
to you. So was he ever proud of me or did
he ever express that.
I don't know because he
never was a military guy.
But it was probably part of your driving
force. I'm sure you know.
OK so you're in Miami. You
get this job with Burger King.
So I was working for a consulting firm
and the job they gave me
was the job at Burger King.
OK. Yeah.
Yeah.
And so you're still in
H.R. though right. Yes.
OK. You're saying so the outplacement so
they were doing mergers and acquisitions
which led to layoffs.
Then you were helping people.
Yeah.
So like Burger King back then unlike
McDonald's did not have franchises.
They had they were a corporation and all
of the employees in all of the locations
belong to Burger King.
So they own the real
estate day or whatever.
So then in this I guess this is in the
early mid 90s that they had a huge
facility that they built
right after Hurricane Andrew.
And they decided to divest
Burger King was getting hit.
So they were selling off the the the
locations now as franchises in this whole
corporation their corporate headquarters.
Most of the people were getting laid off.
So you had someone who had worked for
Burger King for 20 years in the mail room
who was making sixty five
thousand dollars a year.
Who doesn't have a lot of qualifications.
So we we we set up a huge outplacement
center there where we work to with
executives and the entry level people to
help them get back help them get ready to
interview for jobs help them with
whatever like planning
resume writing interview skills.
And we I would conduct job fairs and have
different companies come out.
You know.
And it was hard because you're dealing
with people at one of the
worst times of their lives.
Yeah.
You know so you're kind of get to be a
little like beacon of hope for them.
Yeah.
You know.
You mentioned the imposter syndrome.
Where did that come from
in that that experience.
Because sometimes I would be I just would
stop and say how do I know this.
Why are people looking at like these like
why am I taking charge and doing this.
Sometimes like like where did this come
from because I don't have because I
didn't learn this in school.
So like like so that I would feel like
what if somebody finds
out that I'm really a fraud.
Not realizing that it was
innate and it was a gift.
Yes.
And that you didn't
need college for that.
You had it already and you were it was
coming out of you at that time but you
still were doubting yourself just because
of not having that degree.
It's what it sounds like.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that that that's it.
And like because sometimes I would say
like how how am I leading these people
and telling them
here's what we have to say.
Here's how we're going to manage this.
Like how did I get there.
And sometimes you know I would and then
when I left that job and I doubled my
salary at the next job I mean I went all
the way up to director level.
I was flying over to all of our locations
all over the world being like
the head of HR and I'm like.
You know I'm like and
I mean it's just it is.
I had a huge thing of imposter syndrome
and I was very very insecure and.
But I'm sure you no one
would have known that.
No.
And I think while I was working but once
I stopped working and became a mom.
Those are the most insecure years of my
life because my identity
you know because most of ours.
Yeah.
You know.
Yeah.
So how long did you.
So you said you were traveling the world.
You made it up to director level.
How long did you work before you.
Got married and started having children.
Oh I worked until I was 51.
So even when I had kids.
OK.
I worked for 10 years parts of part time.
OK.
And then I mean you and I were really
close then you know I was
struggling with my older son a lot.
And so I made it like the company I was
working for because we were
all coming out of that 2008.
You know.
Finan
recession.
And so as the company started to build
back and grow they
really needed me full time.
And it was in Miami.
So I was going down to Miami three days a
week and my son really needed me.
So it's only been eight years that I
haven't worked but that's when I decided
to become a stay at home mom.
Grayson was in sixth grade.
OK.
So when did you get married.
I got married in 2006.
Oh OK.
So how old would you have
been when you got married then.
I was 40.
So you were four.
So you really dedicated.
Like the first 20 let's say call it 20
years like when you or 22
years you were 18 tried college.
Packed it up on my career.
And then the rest was building that
career which you were
obviously very successful at.
And would you say that focusing on that
did it was getting married a little bit
later a result of focusing on that or was
it just more timing.
Just not meeting the right person yet.
Oh I mean I think that I hadn't met the
right person yet but I was really and I
really never wanted kids.
You know I did not
want a white picket fence.
I did not want to be like my mom.
I mean kind of like and I was like I'm
never going to be dependent on a man that
I'm going to just this is whatever.
But then when I was.
I want to say my I was like 35.
I wasn't wasn't my husband but I was in a
relationship and I and I got
pregnant had a miscarriage.
And I mean it was a blessing in disguise
but the suit it's kind of like when you
can't have something
you suddenly want it.
And it just may change my perspective.
And so then I started dating more guys
that were more husband
material instead of party material.
And then I met not drug smugglers.
Right. Right.
And then I met Alex and I met him at 37.
I was 37.
He was 35 and then we
dated until I was 40.
OK.
And then we got married and
Grayson was born the same year.
OK so you would have had
Grayson when you were like 41 or 40.
So Alex and I got engaged on September
30th 2005 and Grayson was
born September 30th 2006.
Oh that's so cool.
That is so cool.
So we had this big wedding planned and
then I got pregnant which we were trying.
Right.
And I said I cannot walk
down the aisle with my belly.
I would not.
I don't want to do that to my dad.
Little did I know that I
wasn't going to be showing.
But I was like I can't do that to my dad.
So then we had like we just had a wedding
on the beach and then we had to put our
money on the at the Addison actually.
And we had a big reception.
OK.
Like four months later.
OK.
Oh that's lovely.
Funny little story.
But but yeah so I had him
when I was 40 and then great.
I had Gavin when I was 43.
OK.
So what are the would you say the pros
for young women especially Gen Z.
I think that Gen Z young women are their
work ethic I think is strong.
I think they're very independent.
I think their outlook towards marriage is
shifted at least for a lot of where we
came from Gen X and
maybe even from millennials.
What would you say to Gen Z women as far
as the outlook of
career marriage children.
What would be the pros of focusing on
your career first before
taking that that commitment.
I mean from my perspective the pros are
like I have done it all.
So by the time you know I see a lot of
stories that a lot of my friends who got
married right out of college you don't
really know who you are like I have
traveled I have dated I have partied I
have climbed the corporate ladder and
this is like my decision.
So when I finally had kids that was like
the icing on the cake for me.
And you know I had already accomplished
everything so I didn't feel like it was
missing out on anything.
I worked because I needed to stimulate my
brain but it wasn't because you know it
was still rewarding.
But the minute that I needed to shift
gears and be a stay at home mom I put a
hundred percent 10 percent into that.
And I never felt like oh you know wish I
could have done this or
wish I could have done that.
I think though you know I was one of the
lucky ones because I got
pregnant without any help at 40.
Like I mean I tell my kids like your
miracle babies because there are a lot of
women who can't get pregnant for whatever
like a lot of different reasons.
Right.
And so you do run that risk.
I think that's that's
the biggest con for women.
Otherwise I think if that was not an
issue I would tell every woman.
I feel like having kids later choosing a
partner later when you kind of know who
you are you choose them
for different reasons.
Like I dated all these bad boys but when
it was time to get
married and have kids right.
This is who I would choose.
And he chose me for those reasons as well
because by the time I met him I had
already settled down.
Right.
You know I had already realized that and
like I was successful in my career and I
just stopped like slowing down and you
know my partying and just
was ready to get serious.
So I just think there's more and from my
opinion more pros and then cons except
unfortunately the biological clock.
Now I think that I think it's the one
thing unfortunately that young women do
need to think think about and not that
age is the sole factor of what may make
it challenging to get pregnant because
women of all ages struggle with that.
Yes.
But with the older you
get the chances increase.
You may have challenges.
So and it is frustrating right as a woman
that we have that one thing right.
That's kind of always looming
over us if you want children.
And well and here's the thing you may not
know you want children
because I never wanted children.
Right.
So until you know something happened to
me and it made me reevaluate that.
But I will say that right now
women can freeze their eggs.
True.
That's that's so like that's an option.
And I think that if I were a young woman
I would also freeze my eggs.
Even now like because the other thing
with being an older pregnancy which they
technically refer to as a geriatric
pregnancy anything
over 35 which is crazy.
I know.
But the thing is is not only are you dear
is it sometimes more challenging get
pregnant but you also open yourself up to
a lot of different issues medical issues.
So with the technology they have now I
think any like the issue is just freeze
your eggs at like 25 30.
Yeah.
And just that way you are you have them
and they're healthy eggs.
Yeah.
That's it's a great
opportunity for young women.
Is it expensive.
Do you know.
I have no idea.
Probably because everything.
It feels like you know it's kind of like
one of those things that's
been around for a while now.
Yeah.
As things are and they're not as new
technology wise whatever maybe it's not
but maybe in the future that'll just be
something normal that's covered by
insurance and it should be as
with most things with women.
You know so many things that should be
covered by insurance aren't that we need
or should be annual checkups that aren't.
So you know we can only hope but it would
be wouldn't it be amazing if women were
just offered to freeze their eggs right
in their mid 20s while they're
discovering their life.
It would be such a wonderful opportunity.
I mean it's so interesting because like
you just what just popped
into my head is sperm banks.
OK so you have you have couples and women
who are trying to get pregnant.
Yeah they have sperm banks like the
person who pays for that is the person
that's buying the egg right by the sperm.
So like there's got to be a reverse
interesting thing for women.
Yeah I agree.
But there is it.
There isn't.
Maybe we should start.
Jasmine that's our
that's our next business.
OK so you you were this incredibly
successful woman you got
married you had your children.
How was it balancing having this new
family in your life after you've been
working for so many years.
How was that adjustment.
It was really difficult.
I mean I'm not going to lie.
I thought I was going to be Martha
Stewart like the idea that I didn't have
to work because my husband and I moved to
Tampa because he was building this whole
community out there.
He's a home builder
custom home builder developer.
OK so is that what he's always done.
Yes OK.
Yes.
And the real the whole financial market
real estate market
everything crashed in 2008.
So we were there.
I just had a baby you
know and we had to come back.
So at the time I was like oh
I'm going to be a stay home mom.
I'm going to be Martha Stewart.
But after Grayson was 18
months old I had to go back to work.
But it wasn't full time.
It was just that I was.
That's the thing about being older.
You're set in your ways.
You're used to having your
own set of accomplishments.
And so I couldn't be a stay home mom full
time and I went back to work.
And fortunately my mother in law and my
father in law were there to help.
Oh that's wonderful.
So they would watch
him three days a week.
And well when he was 18 months he was
able to go to grace preschool.
Oh yeah.
Remember the moms.
Yeah.
And so yes that's what I did.
And then I worked part time for 10 years.
Well so it's wonderful
that it was part time.
Right.
So you kind of got
the best of both worlds.
Exactly.
That is that's and I think that that is
the golden you know equation is having
the best of both worlds.
You get a break from your kids because it
is a lot you know especially when
you're older and you have less patience
whatever I don't know what it's like to
be a younger mom but then you come back
and you're excited to see them and you
do this and you have your weekends then
you're excited to go to work.
But you know it was
really it was very balanced.
Yes that's the word I was
about to say it was balanced.
Yes.
And then you had touched on this a little
bit but what did make you decide to stop
working completely.
So as a combination of two things for one
three my company needed me to work
full time right.
They were going to hire me an assistant
but I was like it's just going to create
more work for me.
My husband's business was taking off.
So like I would come home from Miami and
call him and say I'm stuck in traffic.
You have to go pick the kids up.
And he's like listen I can't be in a
client meeting and you
call me and you know and I
said you know I totally understand that
but sometimes you don't know what the
traffic like right.
And then the last but not least most
important thing is my older son was
struggling and I really needed to.
He was struggling in school.
He had behavior issues and which really
were you know just
things and I needed to be
home and support him
and be there for him.
I mean you and I were friends during that
you know and I failed
him in a lot of ways.
Because I really didn't understand what
he was going through.
I was kind of raising him in a military
style because that's
how my parents raised me
like you just got to do it.
What it is.
And then something happened in school one
day and at that day
like I took him out of
school at a meeting on Monday Wednesday I
had him out of school my Friday I had
resigned from my job.
It was the best thing I ever did.
Yeah.
Big week.
Yeah.
I remember that.
Yeah.
So how was the
adjustment to stay at home mom.
It was great.
At that point it was great.
Yeah.
Okay.
You were ready for it.
My kids were older.
So I had a hard time with the part that I
couldn't control when they were little
because you know you're working you are
used to being in control and having being
task oriented.
And so like that was really difficult for
me and my personality.
Once the kids got older like I just
immersed myself in
running things at school being
room mom.
I did a big fundraiser at
the last school we were at.
And I did that while you know they were
in school and then I just worked out and
you know it was fulfilling.
It was fulfilling.
And it's interesting because you've had
all these different
phases you know you had
this life as a military brat quote
unquote where you got
to travel you got to live
overseas and then you did the adventurous
pack up and had to you
know something that I
think I know our daughter would have
loved to have been able to do.
Because you get to say you did that.
I mean that's like it's so
Stevie Nicks vibe you know.
And then you know it's hard sorry and had
the bad boy the bad
boy boyfriends and all
that lived the Miami life and then did
the corporate thing and
had the successful career
as a woman which is accomplishment in
itself and then as a mother and a wife.
So you really have had already at that
point lived so many lives.
So I'm probably I'm sure by the time it
was stay at home mom
time you're like I'm OK.
So lean in.
This is like is a perfect timing like
before I wasn't ready.
Right. Yeah. Right.
And so how old were you.
Would you say when you
did that when you were 51.
OK. So let me ask you this because I know
I've gone through my
own experiences when I
hit 50 51.
I want to talk menopause a little bit.
So did you did you for the women out
there listening that are
going through that or feel
like they might be starting that.
Did you go through a
perimenopause or menopause.
Did you get there some women that are
like I didn't everything was fine.
And then women who are going through it
like what are you talking about.
I feel like I'm going crazy.
What was your experience with that.
So after Gavin was born my body that was
the first thing like it I'm super vain.
So my body I did not lose my belly fat.
And you were how old.
I was 44.
OK. I wasn't sleeping at night and I was
moody and I just did
not feel like myself.
I didn't bounce back as quickly or as
well as I did after the first pregnancy.
So I happen to be talking to a friend who
said you should get a hormone test.
And she's like your hormones
are probably out of balance.
And so I found a
doctor in Fort Lauderdale.
It was a specialist.
Now you can go to your OBGYN.
But right back then that was when Gavin
was so like 12 years ago.
And I feel like it's really just recently
where anyone's even
starting talking about
menopause and giving it its due.
Yeah it's because of Covid.
There's a doctor that I've been following
and people started doing this on TikTok.
Honestly during Covid.
There's just Dr.
Marie Claire.
OK. Yeah. Is she the pause life.
Yes. I love her.
And that's how she started
like talking during Covid.
Yes. You know.
And and so she kind of from my
perspective put it on the map.
But like I did not have any friends that
were my age number one
and nobody talked about it.
So I found this doctor in
this practice in Fort Lauderdale.
Insurance did not cover it.
It was extremely expensive.
And basically they did full panel and
they did all the
stuff test hormone tests.
And they put me on testosterone.
That was what I was low on.
And I would go every
three months on blood work.
Yeah blood work.
And for like three or four years all I
took was testosterone.
So were you you were
perimenopause then during that time.
It was perimenopause.
Did that make a difference for you?
The testosterone.
One hundred percent.
And I had to give myself the shot.
It was a shot shot.
And but it made a huge difference.
It it helped me with like brain fog.
It helped my body bounce back because
it's like the male hormones.
Right.
Right.
Right.
And I didn't have as many mood swings and
I was having great workouts.
I'm not going to lie.
Yeah.
And I was on the same dose for many many
many years like probably seven years.
Did you have any of the
any of the side effects?
I am.
The only side effects I
really had was like like hair.
OK.
But I was like I don't
really care about it.
Like it's worth it.
It's worth it.
Yeah.
And then as I got a little older, my
cortisol levels started going off again
and they redid it and then I
started I just so I've added.
So now like I'm on progesterone and then
I am just about two years ago, they added
estrogen. So over the
past 12 years, it's evolved.
But the dosage it had changed my life.
I mean, I really never had hot flashes.
I had one or two in the beginning and
then it never happened again.
And I think that that whole home and
replacement therapy is why I'm able to
still stay motivated to work out.
And I think it helps you your body stay
healthy and youthful.
I agree 100 percent.
I I know that after I had Dylan, I had
Dylan at 39 and then turned 40.
And I know Perry menopause hit.
I want to say by 42 and I
had a lot of the same symptoms.
I all of a sudden I was a runner and all
of a sudden after 10 minutes, my body was
just not letting me run and I couldn't
lose the weight like I did with my other
two kids. And I just attributed.
Oh, I'm older.
Da da da.
The brain fog, all of that.
And I wish at the time I had known to go
get my hormones checked because I could
have started so much sooner.
But I did start hormone replacement
therapy just within
this last year because I
full blown hit menopause, I think.
And it has been life changing.
First of all, the
progesterone helps you sleep.
Well, and listen.
I did not sleep well when I was going
through perimenopause.
So I took Xanax every single night.
I had a prescription and just recently I
lost someone very close to me to a drug
overdose.
And one of the things that he was
addicted to and abusing was Xanax.
So this was in May.
I'm sorry.
No, that's OK. Thank you.
I'm sorry. So I went to my doctor and I
was like, I don't
want to, you know, she's
like, you're not addicted because you've
been on the same dose for five years.
You know, whatever I go,
I want to get off of it.
What can I do?
And she didn't really
have a solution for me.
So I was telling my OBGYN about it and
she's like, I'm going to give you 200
milligrams of progesterone.
I was taking 100.
Yeah. And she goes and just wean off.
And I mean, I've been using 200
milligrams of
progesterone to sleep at night.
I've been killing my brain
cells for five years taking Xanax.
But you didn't know. I didn't know.
So I have both.
I have a prescription for
200 that another OB gave me.
And then my current my
regular OB gave me 100.
But I and depending on what's going on in
my life, I'll either take two of those,
the 200, or if if I'm really tired, I'm
like, I only need the 100.
But I take something, some form of
progesterone to any women listening in
out there, if you are perimenopause,
menopause and you can't sleep, get some
progesterone, I'm
telling you it is it is.
And I'm post menopause, by the way.
So it is a game changer and
you're not waking up groggy.
It's healthy.
You know, like I just take it regardless
because my thing really was falling
asleep was hard. And if I woke up in the
middle, I couldn't go back to sleep.
Yeah. And so I literally get seven hours
of sleep every night and I wake up.
You know, no, it's a game.
He knows because sometimes like I'll feel
it starting and I'm like, I can't talk
anymore. I wonder if
there's a male equivalent.
I'd love to sleep for seven hours.
Find out because my yeah, I think that's
a whole other subject about men's
hormones. Men don't
really talk about this.
But my husband, you know, you know, he
I'm like, I don't
know why you meant don't
talk about this because you're he's going
through hormones, too.
And the functional
medicine doctors are managing it.
Yeah. So it's just now
starting to be talked about.
But the men go through this as well.
They do. They do.
I think their testosterone, I think your
testosterone starts dropping.
They don't like to talk about it.
Ego bruising. We can't even go there.
You can't handle it.
Yeah.
I'm not trying to get
across the line here anything.
But this is what I think is so
interesting that men,
my husband included,
can't talk about like the
testosterone or whatever.
But men all over the
world are getting Viagra.
Yeah.
Whatever. So at what point like, like
when do they connect?
Yeah. Yeah. No, they just want the pill.
Just fix it. We don't want to talk about
where women are like,
no, I want to get to
the root of this problem. I want to I
want to help myself.
So I think this whole discussion about
menopause stems a lot from Dr.
Marie Claire. And you're right.
I forgot during covid.
She was all over TikTok social media just
talking about, hey, are you having these
symptoms? This is what it is.
You know, and you're
and you're not crazy.
And these are all the things that
menopause affects and women.
And the list, she put up like 25 things
that, you know, and I think it validated
women. Well, and also she was going
through it herself as an OBGYN.
So it really had a lot of validity to it.
Yeah. And it really
like and now like there's
a lot of celebrities and actresses who
have come out with
products and have really
kind of started talking about it.
Yeah. Yeah. It's the Genex.
The Genex celebrity women are starting to
go through menopause or perimenopause.
Maybe the older
millennials, women to celebrities.
And they're talking about it and they're
the but they're the first ones.
It was always just this taboo subject
that, you know, women
just have to get through
it. I mean, I never
even knew it as a subject.
I didn't know what was happening to me.
And I had a friend whose mom I was
talking to her mom and
she said, you know, this and
this. And then but she didn't say you
should get a saliva test to do a hormone
test. She just said to me,
I have some books for you.
And then I was talking to a friend who
was my age who recommended it.
So that woman who who was telling me
about it, they just
tough tough through it.
Right. They don't even
do saliva test anymore,
by the way, for hormone testing.
There's a whole like they do blood work
and and I don't like it's advanced a lot.
And now I go to my OBGYN for it.
And now I pay ten dollars for the
progesterat thirty
dollars for the progester.
And then I do compounding
pharmacy for the other creams.
I mean, I used to pay twelve hundred
dollars every quarter to go visit.
And then I'd have to buy all of the like
the testosterone and
give it to myself and
all of the other things.
So it was really expensive.
It was worth. Yeah.
Every dime because it
just made you feel better.
Absolutely. And are you
still taking everything?
Because I saw I think it was on TIC talk.
A few doctors talking about how women
should continue hormone replacement
therapy into their 60s, into their 70s,
because it helps with our organs.
It helps with our bones.
It helps as we age.
I that's interesting. I
hadn't heard that yet.
I remember them saying to me at some
point you have to stop
because you won't need
them. And I was like,
well, why wouldn't I need them?
Yeah. And I don't
think I'll ever stop unless
somebody like maybe because I'm afraid of
what will happen when I start weaning
off them. I will tell you like like I'm
going out of town for the weekend
and I just don't bring my vitamins and
all my stuff for a weekend.
I don't notice a difference if I don't
take everything for two days
and then I just bounce right back on on
it when I get you know, whatever.
But if I go away for
a week, I'll take it.
Right. Right.
But no, I mean, unless somebody tells me
I'm doing something damaging to my body,
I don't know when I will stop.
Same. I mean, I can't imagine it will.
It would be a very long time because when
I even notice I do the patch
and if I miss it, if I'm a little late on
switching, I will feel a hot flash coming
on by like day two, I'm like, oh, shoot,
I didn't switch my patch.
So it's that it's that fast.
But I think I'm in the middle of what
that's going to say.
You're in perimenopause.
I'm postmenopausal. Exactly.
Exactly. So what supplements
do you take, though, daily?
So I take a lot of supplements.
Well, so when I was
going to the hormone doctor,
there are two supplements that they gave
me that are called Pregnaglone
and seven Keto DHEA.
Like you can buy these at Whole Foods.
They are they are supplements, but they
are supplements that support your hormone
system. I've been
taking those for 12 years.
Wow.
So I take those and then I take my
it's a testosterone biased bio estrogen
testosterone cream and
then I do progesterone.
And then my supplements that I take are I
take digestive enzymes, probiotic
omegas, calcium and D and K.
And then I don't take a multivitamin
because I do a smoothie every morning.
And that protein powder has
a lot of that stuff in there.
And then in the evenings I take zinc, a
magnesium blend and the progesterone.
OK, yeah, I do the magnesium as well.
You do that for sleep.
Yeah, I do the magnesium.
This is I do the magnesium
for just calming, you know,
whatever. So I do a combination of all
this because literally the minute my head
hits the pillow, if I didn't, my mind is
just going going and I bought this.
I buy this brand.
So when Grayson was
I give supplements to my
kids for that are support ADHD.
I don't know if you've heard of Dr.
Amen. He has this huge brain institute.
They open one in Miami.
So he has these supplements and one of
them is called Calm My Brain.
And it's magnesium.
Ashwunga root.
I'm going to miss Ashwunga.
And then it has something
called L-theanine in it.
So it is a combination of those.
And they're all to help
me sleep and they all work.
So you take that.
That's your your is it a
powder or it's a capsule.
OK, so I take that
the zinc and I take the.
Progesterone. And why do
you take the zinc at night?
I knew you're going to ask me that.
I take the zinc at night because it gives
me not gets me nauseous.
OK, an empty stomach.
And the reason why I take zinc is because
they say it makes your Botox.
Oh, that's a great segue.
Yeah.
So you have an
outlook on aging for women.
Yeah.
Would you like to
share with us what that is?
Explain what it is.
I mean, I feel like
I'm going to age and
fight my way through it.
And what does that mean?
When it means different
things to different people.
I use Botox, but I don't freeze my face.
Like, you know, I find a balance.
I work out, I eat healthy.
But I do use Botox.
And I recently started
putting lip filler in my lip.
Not like nobody would know.
Right. But it's just to
because it's lost a lot of volume.
And then I think that
happens to all women.
Yeah, it happens to men.
And there's a whole science behind like
why that happens because the facial
and everything are starting to relax.
You're losing fat. So, you know, so
I try to be as natural as possible, but I
do use I've been using Botox since I was
45, you know, and I started
off where I just did it here.
And I did that for like two years.
And then the next two years I did this.
So over the years, I increased it and I
increased how frequently I go.
And I will probably, you
know, do it till I'm 80.
Like the hormones. Yes.
Yes. Yeah.
And I do like the micro needling.
I haven't done anything invasive.
I will never go under anesthesia unless,
you know, now that I'm a mom,
I don't want to take that risk.
But all of those things I do to just try
to stay youthful looking.
And as a result, feel youthful.
Right. And I'm very vain.
Like I always think I mentioned that
earlier, like the whole thing.
Like I just I feel like when you feel
like you look good and everybody feels
differently, everybody's
I look good is different.
Yes.
As I don't wear a lot of makeup where
when I was younger, I
wore a lot of makeup.
I mean, I had all the styles, whatever.
I'm very comfortable
being in sweats and no makeup.
But I also know that I need a little like
lift, whatever, because,
you know, just to help me feel youthful.
And that's not.
And there's a lot of this there's a lot
of women my age that are on social media.
Like where they're why why is why is
society forcing us to be youthful?
I don't think anybody's forcing me.
I choose that for myself.
And I think it's great that
you want to like I dye my hair.
And I have there's a very
popular woman on Instagram.
And her whole thing is
that she's younger than I am.
But she went completely gray.
And I think that's amazing.
It's just not for me.
Right. And so I think
that I think there's
a should go both ways, like if you you
want to do a little Botox,
you want to color your roots. It's great.
If you don't, that's great, too.
I think that what you're touching on also
is about women supporting women.
Yeah. And sometimes it's that internal
misogyny that we do to each other where
we, you know, we we judge each other for
it. I almost sometimes I
wonder, is this a Gen X thing?
Because I do feel like I don't know if
this was your experience,
but I feel like our generation was raised
to compete with each other immediately.
One hundred percent.
As soon as you walked in a
bar, you were in competition.
Like you didn't if you saw a girl and she
was skinnier, had a prettier dress.
Your first thought
wasn't, oh, that's so cute.
It was OK, I have to
compete with her now.
Whereas my daughter, Kaya, who, you know,
their generation, although I mean,
there's still that subtle
competitiveness, but they'll
look at a girl and be like,
oh, my God, look at her dress.
Cute. Or they'll be so
supportive of each other.
The girlhood is strong.
It is. I watched your podcast with her
and her saying that.
And it's kind of like if you're a
stay-at-home mom or working on, you know,
that whole stigma. And at the end of the
day, we're all doing our job.
We're all doing it in different ways.
But we are we also are the generation
where we're trying to break the glass
ceiling, becoming
competitive in the workforce.
I think that that is the Gen X thing.
When I go to the gym, I'm going to find I
always compete with somebody.
I just do that.
And my younger friends like look like I'm
like, did you see I went faster than her?
I did better. So it
is a competitive thing.
I think it's how we were raised.
You know, 100 percent society.
I think the society we grew up in, the
magazines, the commercials, the TV shows,
there was no girlhood. It was all women.
You're competing with
other women for a man.
Usually that's the era of the supermodel.
Yeah, yeah. Or a job.
Or a job. Or a job.
Women were like
backstabbing women all the time.
That's why it's really interesting that I
always had women who mentored me.
Yeah. And I never had that experience.
But I've heard so many stories of women
saying that other
women had it out for them.
And I'm like, I honestly
never had that experience.
Yeah.
But but yes, I think that and I think I
find myself internally judging also.
I'm guilty of it as well because like I'm
here saying I just do it subtly.
But who cares if it's subtly or if you
freeze freeze your face or you don't.
Right. All of those are good answers.
Those are all good choices.
I think it's subjective.
You made a good point.
You said how you feel good about yourself
is different for each person.
So I don't do I'm sure anyone looking at
me knows I don't do anything to my face.
I'm 53. I have wrinkles.
But I take my legs very seriously.
I do have spider veins.
And you can bet I'm at the dermatologist
getting those things taken care of
because that is what bothers me.
So I think it's
different for every woman.
You know, I'm not as right now as
concerned about this.
My face. I'm fine with my face.
Right. But my legs
because I was a runner.
So that's where I
identified a lot of my fitness.
And so to see my legs
age is what distresses me.
So it's very unique to each each woman.
And I think as women,
we have got to start supporting each
other in that and not judging each other.
But our generation, it's a struggle.
It is. It's a real struggle for us.
I mean, it really is.
And I was at lunch today with some girls
and we were talking about parenting thing
and they were asking advice and two of
myself and another mom had a different
perspective. And at one point I was like,
why are we trying to convince each other
that ours is the right way? You you you
parent your way and I'll parent my way
because there's
there's no one size fits all.
And like going back to the spider veins,
I have them all over my
legs and they don't bother me.
And then also like the
neck, like a lot of people.
And I'm like, I don't
even look at my neck.
I could care less.
Yeah. So it's true.
I dye my hair.
You know, I get my grades right.
Mine show up right above my forehead.
Like it's as soon as
there's no hiding them.
Yeah. And I have dark hair just like you.
But it's different for all women.
And I think that and parenting and being
a mother, like it gets very judgy among.
And I don't know if that's
changed with the generations.
I don't know if millennial women are as
judgy as Gen X women moms were with each
other. And I don't know if
the older Gen Z women moms are.
I'm not sure if that's shifted.
You know, I have a
lot of younger friends.
And I sometimes like have you ever just
been around a group of young moms with
kids and you listen to them because they
have a lot of young moms that work out at
my gym. And what I've noticed that I
think is a little bit different.
It is still the same level of
competitiveness, but it
also it's a bokeh thing.
They're all trying to outdo each other
with parties, with
bar mitzvahs, with sweet
sixteens. You know, this
girl has like there is a mom.
They had seven year old boys asking when
they thought they should.
The kids should start to pick the one
sport they were going to do.
Oh, my goodness. And doing the big I
mean, so I think I
don't think we did that.
No, I mean, we were a little more
organic, but this is
like, are you kidding?
I don't know about you, but my birthday
party was a cake, some balloons and my
friends came to my house.
When I was growing
up. Yeah, yeah, it was.
So when we when we were moms, we had the
bigger birthday parties.
Like I remember that was new.
That wasn't like our
Gen X birthday party.
But I didn't feel we competed with each
other with the party.
It was just like the norm.
And I think also we have boys.
So yeah, less competitive.
So like everybody just
did the Sky Zone party.
Everybody just did the
monkey Joes or whatever.
I forgot about monkey Joe.
Yeah. But even with Kaya,
we would do the big parties.
But I never felt I was trying to outdo
the other moms party.
But I guess maybe with the younger mom.
I mean, that's what I'm noticing.
And like even when I was still at St.
Paul, the new moms that came in.
There were a lot of
younger families who had money.
Yeah. And so they would try to outdo each
other donation wise.
And, you know, things like that to the
school, which we all were just like us
older moms. Yeah.
Wow. Like even even the families that did
and could just didn't do that.
Yeah. It was it's like a so I think it's
like a different level of competition.
But they also live in
a world of Instagram.
Like we didn't have that.
We had Pinterest. We started, you know.
Yeah. So you start
seeing all these baby showers.
Like, excuse me, the
reveal like the gender reveals.
Yes. So there's
things that we didn't have.
But like they're getting all of this
stuff from social media.
And then it's made for social media.
You just nailed it.
So the millennials are the MySpace and
then Instagram, Facebook generation.
So when it comes to having their families
that FOMO or that
competition online on social media
exists with them.
And that's probably what's driving a lot
of competing with each other on sports,
parties, family,
family competition stuff.
But with Gen X, we were
when we were parenting,
typically, we weren't
comparing our lives on social media.
Exactly. Yeah.
So I just don't think
that competitiveness,
even though Gen X women tend to compete
with other Gen X women,
I guess when it came to raise in our
families that I don't know that is it
that motivation wasn't really there where
they a lot of what I think
the millennials have is online.
So it's really that image, that persona
of your family that you need to put out
there. Right. And I
think like I think our kids
Facebook started becoming
popular when we had kids.
But the stuff that we
put out was kind of raw.
It wasn't like put together
for Instagram or this and that.
So even though we shared, it was just
like like you were
sharing your family photos,
you know, not this fabricated photo ops.
And listen, I'm guilty of it, too.
I do this whole martini and caviar and
chip night because I saw it on social.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I was like, oh, I want to do that.
Yeah. But no, but you're not competing.
No, no. It's a little different.
You're sharing something.
I think for us, it was more I guess
wholesome and it wasn't performative.
Right. Exactly. It was it was organic.
It was organic. So the pressure.
Could you imagine being a mom and then
having you already have so much on your
plate and then also having that pressure
of OK, now we need to
and I'll need to look
this way for our Instagram. Right.
Right. I mean, I don't
even go on Facebook anymore
because I just got like to the point that
I would look at other people's lives and
think we need to go on more
vacation. Yeah, we need this.
And what I liked about Instagram, it's
changed a lot when it was like random,
inspirational stuff
that you share with people.
And and I really was like a form of
expression and you didn't really care how
many followers you had. Yes.
That's how it started. That's how I
remember it's starting.
Yeah, exactly. And I'm the same.
I'll check in on
Facebook once in a while.
And then I'm like, I like I peek in and
I'm like, I don't want to because same.
I'll see all these like
perfect lives that I'm thinking.
No, this doesn't make me feel good.
Like if I don't feel good looking at this
and I don't wear and
that's where TikTok comes in.
Is that a happy place?
It is. It's authentic.
It's authentic. It is.
I love it. Like, like I literally I don't
know what I'm doing
with my life when it's
gone. I don't really.
I don't think it's going.
I think we're going to be fine.
I think there'll be a little blip, but I
think we're going to be fine.
I think it's become a huge
I think TikTok has become
a huge help for mental health, for a lot
of people, especially for Gen Z's.
They have that support because they're
out there in their 20s
figuring out themselves, figuring out
their careers, figuring out where they're
going to live, and it can be very lonely
and especially they are the social media
generation. So if you have Instagram
where everything is perfect,
everything is performative,
that's a really good point.
You feel like you're failing
no matter what you try to do.
And then I think when TikTok showed up,
it was like, no,
you're just you're normal.
Like look like my
life's falling apart, too.
And it's totally OK.
And I think I have a feeling it really
helped with people's mental health.
Yeah, you know, I was looking at I love
reading the comments and in TikTok.
I mean, it's just
especially opposing view.
Like that's how you learn.
But today when I was
looking at the CEO of TikTok's
his message, there were so many elderly
people in the comment section
saying how TikTok
connects them to the world.
So when you think about the younger
generation, because
it's all really, really
blew up during covid when people were
disconnected from one another.
And it started off with a lot of lip
syncing and things like that.
And then it just evolved
into a lot of different things.
But today when I was reading the
comments, it was
elderly people connecting with
elderly. So you should go look Google.
I mean, go on TikTok and do his his
announcement. He made a speech and then
look at the comments.
And it was surprising.
It was elderly people.
I will because I saw his video.
I just didn't read the comments. TikTok
comments are top tier.
Oh, yeah. There are some
witty people out there.
I'll be crying, laughing.
And he's like, what are you laughing at?
I'm like the comments.
You know what I've noticed?
There's there seem to be at a higher
intellectual level than say Facebook.
And there seems to be more respect, more
discourse that's respectful, as opposed
to Facebook gets kind of nasty at times.
I mean, I don't even look at that
anymore, but I remember that.
And one of the things and this is going
to be a very
controversial thing that I say,
but I have to say it and I may have
already mentioned it to you
when the unfortunate.
Event happened where the CEO was
killed. Yeah, that was a horrible United.
Yeah. But when I went to I
wanted to just read the comments.
I mean, they were the most clever.
I know all the comments.
And I just thought, you know, it was
interesting to see people's perspective,
but just the way that they they did it.
And again, it's I'm not supporting the
what happened at all.
But it was just very interesting to me.
Yeah. Yeah. The way that they worded
their strongly worded feelings, but they
did it in a very clever and witty way.
Right. Like trying to
determine insurance terminology.
Right. Yes.
That was pretty good.
It was good. It was good.
Well, hopefully, TikTok
stays around for all of us.
So you were talking about that you're
turning back to work and the steps you're
taking towards that.
Yeah, I'm hoping to. Yes.
So what was the motivation there?
So last sorry, last year
in December, I had a
midlife crisis, midlife awakening.
You know, I think that a lot of times you
think you're in your 50s.
I mean, I'm going to be 59 on Sunday.
So thank you that you're like
going to be retiring and and
last year, I Grayson's driving, Gavin's
biking, Alex is working.
And I was home putting up the Christmas
tree by myself, not this year,
but the year before.
And I just got so resentful to everyone
in my family for
moving on with their lives
and realized I needed a purpose.
And the first thing I did was I turned
to my husband, who's
super busy and whatever.
And he was not he didn't
have the tools to be supportive.
I was telling that he's I'm like, I'm
going to give you the
benefit of the doubt.
Like he's not in most men. Sorry.
I mean, he's not evolved.
So he did not know what to do with what I
was bringing to him.
Yeah. And because like
to him and to outsiders,
like I have this perfect
life in this perfect home.
And I was like, I
don't have any any purpose.
Right. And so he's
like, I want you to come
run my company, like you or whatever you
come run my company.
And
I kept saying no.
I mean, for years I said no.
I was like, I just
don't want to work for you.
I don't think it's healthy.
And then I started going to therapy and I
started doing Reiki healing.
I just started doing all this stuff
because I wasn't feeling good.
And I was like, why don't I feel good?
I have no reason to not
feel fulfilled or feel good.
You know, it's great.
I would cry because Grayson was he hadn't
even gone to college yet.
And I would just felt like because we
were so connected because I took time off
to be with him, raise him
and and now he was flying.
And, you know, that's where I wanted.
But I was lonely.
And I just went through this whole thing
and and took a huge
strain on my marriage.
Like like at one point I was like, I
don't be married to you anymore.
Like I'm not fulfilled.
I want to you know, you don't do this.
We don't do that. And
like we told our kids
we're getting divorced because he's like,
I can't make you happy.
And I said, well, that's your attitude.
OK, you can't you're right.
You can't make me happy.
But I'm not going to spend
the rest of my life like this.
So I mean, then I realized
it was a knee jerk, whatever.
But in the moment I was like, that's it.
Right. Whatever.
And unfortunately, my
children went and told their friends.
So now people are texting me and, you
know, whatever was a huge.
So it was a really big
everything kind of blew up.
Yeah. I did go work for my husband.
And it did not go well, not for you know,
he's like he's the boss, not me.
I'm not used to that.
And also it's his business.
And I was coming in and telling you how
he should run things
because that's what I do.
And it really just even though I'm good
at what I do and he's
good at what he does,
it's not healthy. And so I left about
right around Thanksgiving.
Of this past year.
And then I was like, you
know what I'm going to do?
I'm going to get us because I
don't have a college degree.
I haven't worked in seven years.
So I'm going to take the certification.
It's the hardest thing
I've ever done in my life.
I mean, and it was a bad timing.
So I decided to do that and
I hired a career coach and
I'm taking the exam on February 15th.
Why am I want to go back to work?
I want to have a purpose.
Yeah. And it's not about I don't even
want to be in charge of anything.
You know, I don't even care if I take it.
I want to actually do
want to take like an
entry level position so I
can go to work and leave.
And I'm like, if I like
it, I will rise to the top.
I mean, that's just the way, you know,
but I don't necessarily having not worked
for seven years don't want to jump right
back in and be responsible.
You know, because I do
also like my flexibility.
Yeah. And, you know, so are
you looking in the same in HR?
So right now I'm not actively looking
because I'm just getting myself prepped.
I want to in what a luxury for me to say
I want to get Grayson off to college
and then I'm going to get a job because I
don't want to take time off or be
distracted and the career
coach is like kind of helping.
Like, what do I want to do?
Yeah, everybody keeps saying you should
start your own business.
You should. I don't want
that much responsibility.
Right. I want to go to work, do my job.
Get a paycheck and go home.
It's really for a fulfillment.
And I feel really fortunate that that's
why I'm going out to work.
So that's, you know, I did this little
video on TikTok that was like, I thought
at this age I would be like planning my
retirement and but I'm not ready to wind
down. I really don't
feel 60. I don't feel tired.
I don't feel a retirement age like that.
I don't want to work.
And I would met with our we met with our
financial planner and I was like, I plan
on we're talking about Social Security.
I said, I'm going to work until I'm 70
because if you don't, you turn to mush.
Yeah, you know, maybe
I'll work part time.
Right. Right.
I think well, I think Gen X has
completely changed the idea of 60.
Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure.
I think 60 is like 40 to us, you know.
And I think so many Gen Xers plan on
working like you,
whether they a lot of them,
I think, have to the way, you know,
everything's gone with the world.
But but even if they
didn't have to, they want to.
But I think we I think in
general, we view getting older.
We're pioneering that
we're changing that.
Just if you look at how we all live, we
still live like I feel young and we're
getting older, but I still feel young.
Yeah. I mean, I think we
have to make changes healthwise.
I agree. Yeah.
I think that's a big thing is we can't
drink like we used to.
And we need to exercise and we need to
take our supplements and eat better.
We have to.
You know, if we're going to head into
this next phase and tackle it.
But I just think we are completely
pioneering, quote unquote, old age
for the younger generations.
I have to agree.
I mean, I went back to my hometown for my
40th High School reunion.
Actually, not my hometown, nice field,
Florida, where I graduated.
And they are a very simple
people, you know, very humble.
They they don't I mean, if you have a
coach handbag, you are really, you know,
they just don't care
about any of that stuff.
But the other thing is all of my friends
from high school, not one of them uses
Botox or any of that stuff.
But they're hiking, they're running,
they're exercising, they're boating.
They're very, very active.
Yes. But and so like I look at them and
I'm like, if I lived here,
I would still do Botox because it's an
it's a personal thing.
Yeah. But they and they
all moved away and came back
and they're living this
really healthy, active lifestyle.
And they're all connected with each other
again because it was such a small town.
Everybody moved away.
Now they're all back and they're sailing
and boating because it's on the water.
And they're yeah.
And like my mom at my age, I mean, you
know, they were sitting on the right.
I mean, literally. Yeah.
So she still lives there as well.
Yes. That's cool.
So she's yeah, my dad passed away.
But she you know, but she lives in the
house and but she sits on the couch
to watch his TV all day.
And I think with the boomer generation
and probably with the silent generation,
I think mentally in their heads, they
thought, OK, so now I'm this age.
So this is what I'll do.
And now I sit and now I watch TV or they
in their minds, they thought once you hit
a certain age that you're supposed to
slow down and wait till you die.
Yeah. Yeah.
I observed that with my grandmother, my
grandmother all of a sudden just sat and
waited and my mom lives with
us, which keeps her active.
Yeah. So she's lived with us.
Now for seven, seven years, I think,
six years, but seven wonderful years.
Yeah. But that that keeps her active.
But probably if she didn't live with us,
honestly, because she
did retire at 17, she's 77.
Wow. She's really.
Yeah. Yeah.
She turned 77 in October.
I think she would definitely live a more
sedentary life if she
wasn't living with us for sure.
And she'd be the first to
tell you she's grateful.
Well, she did.
When she wasn't living
with us, she would chill.
Yeah. And her most activity was when she
had the kids for the weekend.
Well, she was still working because she
moved in with us when she retired.
So I think she would just be chilling
where here she's with Dylan was younger.
So she helped. She still helps.
You know, she ran an errand for me today.
So even something simple
like that, as you get older,
like it's good to go and
do those things and be out.
And she has like a
mahjong group and all that.
But even her generation, though, they
kind of think, OK,
well, I'm this age now.
So this is what I'm going to do.
But I don't think Genex doesn't have an
age that they're that they see the finish
line coming up, it's just redefining.
We're always redefining.
I think we are. And I think like if you
think about our generation,
us, I didn't really start eating
healthy and taking care
of myself until I had kids.
Yeah. So I was 40.
And I told them, I mean, I mean, I can
still remember going to Taco Bell.
Yeah. And I was an adult.
Yes. You know, I'll still go.
Yeah. So when when I had kids, that's
when I realized because I was older,
like I want to be healthy and
live to see my kids grow old.
And I don't want to, you know.
And so I think that's the middle root.
But a lot of people our age are on the
health bandwagon, eating well, eating
healthy, exercising and not for necessary
to look good, to feel good.
Yeah. And like you said, our kids are
eventually going to
hopefully get married,
have children and we want
to be active grandparents.
We want to be out there running along
with them and and doing things with them.
And if we're going to do that, we have to
acknowledge that we need to make some
health changes. We're
just not going to make it.
And so it's slowing down on the partying.
But oh, my gosh, we're the generation of
baby oil laying out in the sun and
smoking cigarettes and eating like crap.
Like we've we've come to that that
wellness life midlife.
Exactly. Exactly.
Whereas the millennials and the Gen Z's
Gen Z's, especially,
that's all they really
know. They're very big into
wellness, Gen Z, especially.
But and I see with the millennials.
So and Gen X, we finally found it.
Yeah. You know, you
know, my kids were never
allowed to have fast food or anything.
And so now what do
you think they're doing?
Yeah. And so I was like, maybe I should.
But like it just went against everything,
you know, that I believed in.
So now I'm like, you guys, when you're
out, because now I'm all about the GMOs
and the pesticides and so
like now we're not doing gluten.
And Alex is on the special diet now.
But I was like, you never going to get an
unhealthy meal in this house again.
I'm not buying snacks anymore.
If you guys want to buy it outside the
house, because I realize that maybe I
should there should have been a balance,
but it would have gone against what I
decided to do for my health.
Yeah, it was at 40. So it was life.
Yeah. And up until then, I ate and drank
and did whatever I want.
Now I do it on a Friday or Saturday.
Yes. Yes. No, it's same.
We've reincorporated it in.
But we we had to make some big changes.
It's funny you say that on the Friday
and Saturday, because that's the thing in
the corporate world.
It's like I stopped
drinking during the week.
Yeah. I save it for Friday or Saturday.
That's I hear that all the time.
Yeah, it's kind of wild.
If that gives you another reason to look
out for the week, but then you don't have
to worry about waking up, you know, or
like being like having it.
Because now that my kids are older,
we don't have to get up at six or seven
o'clock in the morning and the weekend.
So sometimes like sleeping
until seven is really good for me.
But I'll stay in bed till nine sometimes.
Yeah. Or I'll have a third drink knowing
that I don't have to get up.
But nothing really beyond that.
I mean, nothing like
our nights out, you know.
No, we used to have some fun nights.
We'd be out till two in the morning.
Yeah. When we our girls
nights out were so much fun.
They were. I could never do it now.
Now I'm more like, can we meet at five?
Because I'm going to
probably leave by nine.
So my girlfriends are
all younger than me.
Right. I just met them all.
So my birthday is on Sunday.
And my two friends just turned 50.
All three of them just turned 50.
OK. So they're 10 years younger than me,
nine years younger than me.
And so they're like, I want to do
something for your birthday.
Your last year of your 50s.
And I'm like, let's get
it. Let's go to Miami.
Yeah. They're like,
let's go to Palm Beach.
And I'm like, oh, my God.
So we're going to Naples and we got a
reservation for dinner at eight.
And my friend calls me the other day.
Now, I'm great to remember she's nine
years younger than me.
Would you mind if we
change the reservation to six?
I can't eat that late. Yeah.
I was like, we're on vacation like the
didn't have reservations.
I guess. But if you want to call and you
can get a reservation
somewhere earlier in
the in the hotel. Yeah.
But it's just so crazy.
It's crazy how things change.
Listen, if I eat too
late, it affects my sleep.
Like I prefer to eat earlier.
And OK, when did it become where even if
you only have two glasses of wine,
you're just as hungover as
if you had to go through that.
Yeah. Yeah.
I I can usually not drink wine anymore.
Now I only know what I can drink.
But right. Yeah. Or anything like you
would have one or two drinks.
I used to be able to have one or two
drinks and not even know I drink at all.
But now I have one or two
drinks and I am hungover.
Oh, you are. Oh, yeah.
If I drink Tito's with anything, I could
have three drinks and work out the next
morning. Seriously. That's pretty good.
But if I have a glass of
wine, I'm done for the next day.
Red or white, either one.
I don't even drink red anymore because
the minute I take a sip
of red, I have a headache.
Yeah. So it's generally wine.
But like like today, I went to lunch and
I had a glass of wine
just because we were
I was like, it's early to have vodka.
So we all had a glass of
wine and I had a headache.
All. Yeah. Yeah.
I don't react as well to wine, but
alcohol in general, I
it's almost like I might as
well have a few drinks, because even if I
have one, yeah, I feel the same the next.
Oh, you do. I do.
Don't you? 100 percent. Yeah.
I'm impressed that you're
lucky you don't have that.
I'm the same as you, though.
If I have red wine, one glass, I'm
completely just wrecked the next day.
Yeah. There's something
in the talent or whatever.
Yeah. Yeah.
So where do you see
yourself five years from now?
So you're going to be 59 on Sunday.
Yeah. So that means you'd be 64.
Well, 64.
So honestly, I see myself
being happily married
because we did work through that.
We're not getting which is wonderful.
Yeah. And what can I touch on that?
But I think I don't think
that's talked about enough.
I think that when women hit 50 ish their
midlife, they've been married.
They've worked. They raise their kids.
I think when we're raising our kids, our
tolerance is much higher for things.
I think we're in that nurturing state.
We want to create a family.
We want things to be perfect and
wonderful for everyone.
So we ignore certain things.
Then when I think our children are pretty
much raised and we've been married for a
while, I think that
that tolerance goes down.
And that also may have to do with
menopause to where we
just it might give us
that that might be a pro of menopause is
it gives us that permission to say,
what, no, I'm not
dealing with that anymore.
I'm tired of it. I've done it for so
long, so many years.
And it's time for me now.
I'm going to reclaim some of my energy.
I'm going to reclaim some of my time and
make myself a priority.
And I think a lot of times when women do
that, the marriage gets affected because
the husband or partner has been kind of
used to her humming
along things have just
been fine. And to men, I
think they truly think, oh,
everything is fine because if it wasn't,
I would know not knowing women's
tolerance is so high that we could be
sick and no one would know.
Right.
And I think there are divorces, a lot of
divorces during this time because a lot
of women say I'm not going to
put up with your shit anymore.
Yeah. And there has to be an adjustment
for the marriage to continue.
Right. I mean, right now they say that
it's called gray divorce.
Right. And it's women
and men in their 50s
and in the 50s rage.
And a lot of it has to do with like
because most women, most couples are very
raised their kids and
empty nesters. Right.
Like, but I think what you're saying is
true. Like you're also very distracted
because you're busy raising your family
that you don't even
realize and you do it, you do it.
You don't even realize that, you know,
all of a sudden
there's something that you
need. So I could see that.
And I think also you sometimes you get to
the other side and like, who are you?
Because
like in my marriage, for example,
one of the things that I that was
difficult for me was like by quitting my
job and staying home, I used to say I
just put myself back to the 1950s,
meaning, you know, my husband is now
working and he's the breadwinner and I'm
home and, you know, what's for dinner and
it's very traditional, which which I.
Plan my whole life not to be like that,
you know, I want to be like that.
Right. And
I
lost my train of thought.
So you ended up you
ended up in a situation
that you had worked your
whole life not to end up in.
And then you ended up there.
Yes.
In that traditional role.
Yeah, because we all know that whether a
woman works or is at home,
most of the domestic
responsibilities fall on her.
Yes. So even when I worked,
you know, I did everything.
And but like I think for me, when I
started realizing this to your point,
the men think that
everything is going smoothly.
And my husband just really did not know
to handle what I was saying.
Right. And in everything he kept saying
was what I'm not doing anything right.
I'm not doing anything right.
And I'm like, oh, I'm just trying to say
that now that, you know, the kids so that
I need more time, I
need more companionship.
I go everywhere by myself
because you work all the time.
Now, the flip side is that is that I have
everything that I want.
But I was like, what I go,
money can't buy you love.
Like you can have security.
You have this big, beautiful house.
But where are the memories?
Where's the home?
And he's like, well,
somebody's got to pay for all this.
And I'm like, but we
didn't ask for all this.
And it just goes back and forth.
And so finally, it's like a
matter of the chicken or the egg.
Right. And so and the balance and the
balance because it was fine because you
were busy raising kids.
And so you guys had your roles.
Yes. And then the kids were left.
And you're like, wait, I I
still want a relationship.
Yeah. And we kind of put it to the side
without realizing it.
It's almost like we need
to get to know each other.
What do you think the
switch is there, though?
Because I'm hearing you talk about Alex
and I can relate to his side of it.
And you brought up the concept of he
wasn't equipped to deal
with some of the stuff
you were bringing. I've
been in that situation.
Yeah. She's brought me things.
And it's like I thought I was doing OK.
But so I do think we're slower to evolve.
I feel like I've gone through some
evolutionary things,
maybe with like maybe
the menopause or we're getting into
different phases or whatever it is.
But what do you think is happening for
you guys that's flipping the switch,
whether it's either an enlightenment on
your part or your needs have evolved or
something's happening
right where we were here.
Now all of a sudden we're here.
Well, you're here, but we're still here.
I think that women finally make
themselves the first priority.
Yeah, I think that's exactly right.
I think that your family
and your husband come first.
Like that's just the nurturing aspect of
you're busy taking
care of everybody else.
That you and you are taking care of like
like your home is this and that.
But it's like the emotional nobody who's
who's checking on me to make sure I'm OK.
Who's who's checking on me to see if I
have a gift under the tree?
Who's checking? And by the way, part of
it is my fault because I just took care
of everything. And so now, yes, I'm
starting to realize
that I have more time.
My job is starting with in terms of the
parenting is giving me more time.
And now I'm like, well, wait a minute.
What about me? Yeah.
And so true.
And then and so I don't
think it's anybody's fault.
You know, I think it's just the evolution
of a family and marriage.
But I think that the partner has to make
an effort to try to understand.
And I'm going to be honest
with you, my husband did not.
And he buried himself in work.
And.
I mean, we went to
mediation and I was like, I'm out.
And I said, and I am going to.
Have the next 20 years of my life are
going to be joyous
and I'm going to have a
partner or I'm going to be alone by
myself instead of lonely in a marriage.
And he was like, fine, fine.
And then the very end, I mean, he has
never and and then I
went looked at a town
home, I was getting ready to buy it, I
was going to renovate it.
And he he finally had
some sort of epiphany.
And this is real.
It's happening type of thing.
Yeah. And he was it started off with
like, he's not a man of words.
He's more of actions.
But he was like, I really appreciate you
coming to work for me.
You did a great job.
And then he'd say, I really.
So he started just
like saying things to me.
And I was like, you know, those are
little things that really mean a lot.
Like take just acknowledge, appreciate,
ask me to go to lunch one
day and follow through on it.
You know, think little things.
And, you know, I was like, of course, I'm
going to give him a chance because he's
my husband. I love him 20 years.
But basically I would say
I will be I will move on.
Right. And I am not
hesitant on that because
now I know like going back to school and
like I have a lot of life left in me.
A lot of potential. Yeah.
Yeah. So I think that's a thing.
They've actually been coming out with
studies that they're
finding women are fine
without men, that that men benefit more
from marriage than women do and that men
get more out of marriage and become
healthier, become happier, more settled.
And women actually end up suffering more
and their health is more affected from
marriage and they're finding more and
more women are
willing to walk away from a
twenty thirty forty year marriage and are
completely happy and
fine living that way.
So I think that it's
like you were saying,
you were either going to live on your own
and be happy or maybe find a companion.
But you knew no matter
what, you'll be fine.
Right. And it's that feeling of, look,
I'm going to be fine.
And listen, when I say that, I'm not
going to like the past
year when we were going
through, it was it was I did a lot.
I had like it was hard.
Right. Yeah. And it was really hard.
And it was also very difficult to deal
with what I perceived
as rejection because he
you know, what can I do?
You know, I'm sorry that you feel like he
was just like, you
know, I don't know what
your problem is like.
No, but I'm I'm I'm not doing anything
wrong and I'm not changing.
So and I can't make you happy.
And then I was like, one day I looked at
him and I was like,
I'm never going to chase
you again. I'm never going to be in this
role with you ever again.
Right. And I walked up
and I mean, honestly,
like we didn't talk for
like we lived in the same home.
We did not talk for three months.
Wow. Except for interacting.
We're not fighters.
We don't yell and scream at each other.
So we were just disengaged because I was
like, I'm taking my energy back.
Yes. And, you know,
and I had to like choose
myself. Like that's what I kind of felt
like it was like, you're not choosing to
meet me in the middle.
So I really have to leave.
Like I can't do this
because I'm letting myself down.
And I was going through this therapy
where it was like,
what would what would the
little girl in me think?
And I was like, you know, yes.
Whatever. So like I think so.
But I I think it's unfortunate that I had
to take it as far as I did.
But I think that it was the best thing
that I did for myself to know that I will
be OK. Yeah.
And I choose to be with you.
Yes. And but I know I'll be OK.
Yeah. And I don't know about you.
And I don't mean that in a whatever way.
But like you have to do the work.
You have to meet in the middle.
You have to appreciate
you're losing your whole family.
Right.
Do you think if you if you look back,
do you were you ever at that point, say
10, 15 years ago and
the timing is right now?
Or do you think this is
a news was a new thing?
I do think that there were issues,
mainly issues that were
never resolved, not major issues.
But but what would happen is I'm just so
dedicated to my like
I let a lot of things
slide. Yeah. So over.
So finally, when I'm like there were
times I just stop bringing things up that
bothered me because I would get, you
know, poo poo to whatever.
But then now, like, OK, now there's
nowhere to turn out.
That is this is how I'm feeling.
And I'm not criticizing you per se.
But this is what I think as well.
And this has been a common denominator.
But I would never have ever considered
divorcing when my kids were young.
Like I would always put my family first.
Yeah. And
but I have a lot of friends who have
parents who were divorced that said
that a lot of their parents, like the day
they went to college, that's when their
parents got divorced and
they were like, we lived it.
We knew they were unhappy.
And so they're like, if you're unhappy,
don't because I was like, I'm going to
wait for Grayson to graduate.
Right. I don't want to ruin, you know, I
mean, this is very recent.
Yeah. And my friend
was like, don't do that.
And so then I pushed forward and I was
like, I went to mediation and I did
whatever. And again, it
wasn't I wasn't angry.
I wasn't mad. I was just done.
Yeah. I was just like, I just
don't want to live like this.
You know, he didn't he
didn't do anything wrong.
Yeah. And I didn't do anything wrong.
No, but I think you really nailed it.
I think women
look past so many things when they're
when you're in the in
the thick of raising
kids, I think and you try, right?
You have conversations like I could you
bring me flowers once a while?
Could you still take me
on a date once a while?
You know, could you be
more romantic once a while?
But then life's going so hard that that's
not the hill you're going to die in at
that moment because your kids have so
many things going on as a couple.
You're raising children,
you have a life together.
So you kind of just let those quote
unquote little dreams or whatever,
you know, kind of die for a while.
But then I think when
the children get older
and you actually have time to focus on
yourself and you said you said it right
there, you reclaimed your energy, that's
exactly how I felt as well.
I would say around the age of 51, I felt
I've given, you know, I had I got married
to twenty three, I had my
first child at twenty six.
So I feel like my adulthood has been a
care taking care of everybody.
And I just thought, OK, and that's that
kind of was with that mid awakening,
as you call it, of OK,
I face more mortality.
Life is finite.
How do I want to spend
the second half of my life?
And I'm going to
reclaim some of my energy.
I'm going to put myself first for the
first time ever, maybe, you know,
because my childhood was messed up. Yeah.
And I remember like we we had some
conversations and some arguments.
And I took a while to get my point across
because things had been humming along so
nicely for 30, almost 30 years.
So I think he was like,
wait, what what do you mean?
You know, and but then all those things I
had let kind of die off.
I was like, no, like
these are important to me.
And like when you said the child and you,
I always tell my kids when they're trying
to make a big decision, I say, well,
what would you in 10 years want to look
back and see you did?
So think of yourself 10 years from now
and you need to be happy with this
decision now that you're going to look
back on it and be proud of yourself
for whatever you decided. And I kind of
thought that to myself.
I'm like, OK, so 10 years
from now, how will I look?
How I feel about what I'm doing right
now, my decision making.
And that really gave me
that courage to go for it.
And in a way, it's like you're sticking
up for yourself for the first time.
You know, and I think like going back to
like what we were saying, like they don't
like my it did catch him off guard.
So and I think his defense mechanism was,
you know, I'm doing everything right.
So I can't make you happy.
You know, it was like in and he was the
first one to say, why don't we just have
an amicable divorce? And I was like, wow,
that's your that's your go to.
And then and but also
coming to the other side of it.
Now I can see his perspective, you know,
and when I was telling him, I was like,
these are the things that I
appreciate about our life.
And I was telling him, I said, don't want
you to take everything negatively.
But you also can't be so sensitive.
And like, because I would talk about
something that happened 10 years ago.
Yeah, it was still in there because he
never let me whatever.
And I was like, so instead of arguing
with me about it or
gas, he didn't he didn't
argue, he would say,
what are you talking like?
And like, this is how I feel.
Yeah. So it's like
it's like it's good cry.
I need to get it out and
then I'm going to move on.
But by you keep saying, what?
I go now you're pissing me off.
And it has nothing to do with you per se.
I'm telling you how I feel.
You can choose to do
with this whatever you want.
Yeah. But I'm no longer for there was.
So what happened with the cat of cattle's
review is like I would get nothing
because he was tired of work, but then I
would hear him on the
phone and I was like,
you you talking on the phone?
All why does everybody
else get the best of you?
Oh, my God, I've heard
I've had that said to me.
Right. It's true.
I'm like, so don't ever
fucking talk about sorry.
No, no, don't talk to anybody in front of
me on the phone ever again.
I go because I have to listen to you be
so nice and so compassionate
with other people, but you
can't be that way with your wife.
I'm not going to that's
not going to work for me.
Yeah. Did
did he go from you guys having beef to
going right to the nice conversation?
Because I've done that. No, no. Right.
What do you mean?
Where we're where we've we're having a
heated conversation
where I'm probably not
getting something to be honest with you
and then I hop right into a work call.
Oh, very nice.
Yes.
I miss him.
So did I. Yeah, I miss him.
No, we'll have tension and I'll be not
happy with something.
And then he has to go be on a call.
And he sounds like all great.
And I'm beyond.
I'm just like, are you serious right now?
But I understand it's his work.
But still, you know, I
have I have canceled.
Like we'll have work dinners with clients
and if I'm not in a good
place with you, I'm not a fake.
I cannot be fake.
So I will tell him I know it's last
minute, but I'm not going.
But is that new since
you've hit 10 years ago?
Yeah, that's new.
And I think that's
that reclaiming energy.
I think it's that we're honoring all
those little things in
ourself that we neglected.
Yeah. We're finally honoring.
And we're like, we're going to honor this
and you can choose to or not.
But we're honoring.
And it could affect this relationship
might be affected if
you choose to gaslight me
or belittle what I'm
saying, but this matters.
And I don't even need
you to validate it anymore.
I can validate it for myself.
But if you dismiss it, we're
going to have some problems.
I think that's it.
Something's got to happen here, though,
because that's a whole paradigm shift.
I feel for Alex because I get it.
I really, you know, I sympathize.
We're not alone.
When you look at some of the commentary
on some of our social media stuff,
especially Facebook.
Men are at a loss for
this in many ways, right?
And we just we probably
don't evolve as quickly, right?
We don't mature as
quickly when we're kids.
Probably don't mature as
quickly as adults either.
You guys enter this phase.
You're reclaiming your energy.
You're you know, you're
thinking about stuff 10 years ago.
And we're just like, everything's cool.
We're yeah, we got a nice house with nice
lifestyle, you know,
but something changes.
You guys make a change.
It's not I find it fascinating.
Listening to what you're
talking about totally relatable.
And I guarantee you people
listening are relating to this.
And I just wonder what the solution is
because you could save a marriage if you
come to the realization of I need to
figure this out type of thing.
Well, I wonder, I don't I don't know if
men feel this in general, but I
I feel like I know you you've kind of
expressed this before that, you know,
you're married, you've married me and
you're you're faithful and you're here
and you you provide for the family.
So that is I think to men
that's showing their love.
That is their love language.
That's their love language where women
need more than like we need that,
obviously, but we need more than that.
But then I think men might feel well, now
you're just being spoiled or now you're
being high maintenance or
I can see where they like.
I'll hear my I will hear Alex banter
with, you know,
different people that he works
with and joke around and then I'm like, I
remember saying him, I want that, Alex.
Yeah. And I go.
But I think what happened
is, is that what I think,
whether it's on purpose or not, that I am
wife and mom, you know.
And so like sometimes he'll say things to
me and I'm looking at him like, I'm not
stupid, you know, and he's like, why are
you getting so sensitive?
I go, because sometimes you talk to me as
though all I am is a wife and a mom.
Yeah, I worked for this many years.
I am. But by the way, because I haven't
been out in the world,
maybe I am not as
interesting or whatever.
But and so
it like to have this conversation with
him yesterday because you were saying,
where do you see yourself in five years?
Yeah, I was telling him, I
said, oh, my God, in six months,
my life is going to be so different.
Yeah. And he says, oh, really?
Because Grayson's going to college.
I said, no, because I'm going to be
working and I'm going to be interacting
with a group of all new people, I'm going
to be accomplishing things.
And people are going to respect me and I
am going to be successful.
And he just looked at
me like I had four heads.
I love that you were
just manifesting that.
Yeah, you're just manifesting.
I am. I love that.
Yeah, I am.
I mean, that's, you know,
and so I think I think that.
But that probably took him back.
He's like, whoa, not realizing this is
the woman that you fell in love with.
I don't know how he's going to handle it,
honestly, because for 20 years, like
actually, even though I worked for this,
like I was the stay at
home, I was whatever.
But I told him, I said, I lost myself and
it is not a bad thing towards you
because I'm asking you to join me.
Right. And but that that includes
like, I feel like respecting me outside
of a mother and a wife role as a woman.
Yes. You know, and
I also need your respect and look at him
as more than just a provider.
And that may be the disconnect, right, is
that we all get so wrapped up in raising
our kids and and all the things that go
on with that, that
somewhere along the line,
you lose that that initial man woman.
The connection, the connection and and
not seeing each other as
father as the father or the mother or the
husband or the wife, but just as
a guy and a girl, you know, and and I
think that's why it's so important,
if possible, for couples to
try to do things together.
But it's hard when you're in
the middle of raising kids.
It's hard to find
that you fall into roles.
Yeah. And you do fall into roles.
And also it's not authentic.
Right. Right.
So like just recently, since we've
decided to give our marriage, you know,
we went on a walk, we go walk the dogs
two nights a week and
we just talk about stuff
besides the kids. Now, we don't not
forcing ourselves to do it.
We just are kind of getting to know each
other a little like dating it.
And it a little bit it's a little weird
in a way, because I'm not
used to him being attentive.
Right. And whatever.
So it's kind of like we've been in this
one role and not that it's good or bad.
Like so now he's like, oh,
you know, that looks great.
Or would you cook?
Because like I never and I'm like, I'm
not used to him giving me compliments or
recognizing. So it's
almost kind of like weird.
You're being seen.
Yes. That's exactly.
I mean, that's exactly insane.
Yeah. And I think that's what it is, is
that we start to feel invisible.
Yeah. And then when when things do change
and our husband does do something where
you feel seen, you're like, you also
trust it. Yeah.
You're like, well, I think Alex has got
me by six months, maybe nine months.
But like the other day, I realized like I
was looking at some
of the texts and a lot
of times my texts and my interactions
with Alex are, can you transfer this?
Right. Can you pay?
I went to Puffer this.
So then I was like, you know what?
He didn't say this to me, but I was like,
I want to stop
looking at him as the money
guy. Right. Yeah.
So because those are the roles that we
cried, I go when I go, you're out
building million dollar homes.
But when you walk in the front door,
you're Alex and dad.
Yes. But it does go back like we are
reclaiming our energy, but we also have
to give the husbands time to
kind of catch up with that.
You know, and I think that that it took
it was a bumpy road.
But I think Alex got
there and in his own way.
Yeah. Like, you know, what you what I
felt like is important
to do was just to step
like they say when you're in the middle,
you focus on yourself.
Yeah. And if you do, you attract what you
what needs to come to you.
And it's such a cliche
because you're reading this stuff.
But like if you really practice it and
you just say, like, I
just want to take care
of myself, I'm not
nobody's done anything wrong.
Nobody has gone outside the marriage.
Nobody's done anything wrong.
So let's just so when I
did it just gave him time.
And if I would have chased him or made
him go to therapy or
do all this stuff, it
would just be pushing him away.
So on his own, he just
was able to get there.
Yeah. And, you know, my kids are just you
could just see everybody's attention in
the home is just like it
just happened organically.
And and I think my kids
learned a very valuable lesson.
Gavin is like, you know, observes a lot.
So, you know, he he knew everything that
was going on just by observing.
Yeah. But now you guys are actually it's
a living authentically.
Yes. Yeah. And it
makes such a difference.
It's just the very beginning.
Like, it's just but but but I do feel
really hopeful about it.
And I feel like when you're going through
a midlife crisis,
awakening your marriage,
I think it's pretty normal. Yeah.
Right. And you have you got to figure out
how you want to get through.
And if somebody hasn't done like stepped
out of the marriage
or whatever, I do think
that it can be salvaged.
I agree. I mean, I do have my cheating is
that's the deal breaker for me.
But I think that if you're if you're
talking about just what we're talking
about here, I definitely think it's worth
putting in the work
and finding each other
again, because usually what you'll find
is you're unstoppable then.
Yeah. Like if you come out of that and
you're like, you're
stronger, you're good.
Yeah. You're good for the second half.
And it's almost like a new relationship.
It is. It is.
You know, and it's fun.
And, you know, one
thing that comes to mind
when you were talking about your text, it
almost becomes transactional.
Because if I look at our
text, we'll have that same.
Yeah. Have you done this?
Have you done that? And
it gets very transactional.
So we're stuck in those
roles when you're raising kids.
Somehow, again, you
guys, I think, change first.
Yeah. I had to guess.
Always. Yeah. Then we have
to we have to just catch up.
Well, because listen, our roles are
directly tied into our children.
So as our children mature
and grow, our role changes.
Whereas your role hasn't changed.
You know, it's it may have you may have
switched jobs or whatever, but your role
kind of stays the same.
So that's why I told
Alex, my job's ended.
Yeah. Hasn't really ended.
But the but the I'm still
always going to be a parent.
But that part of taking care of your kids
and I go, but your role hasn't changed.
And it hasn't it didn't
change when we had the kids.
You know, and I used in the beginning,
like, you know, when
you're like, oh, my God,
like, how am I going to do this? Like.
And it's it's not like,
oh, I do more or whatever.
It's not about that.
It's just that I think it's just like
honoring when the other person's growth
or lack of growing with
you, like, you know, and just.
But I think that when you gaslight, I
think when you don't try to understand,
you don't try to meet in the middle or
try to talk about it.
That's where you set
someone on fire, so to speak.
I'm glad that he reacted that
way because it did me a favor.
And now it kind of comes full circle.
Absolutely. And it's and
it's real and it's authentic.
Where he's coming from
is not forced by you.
Right. And you feel seen.
I do think you hit it, though.
Your roles have changed
because the kids have gotten older.
You don't have to be as attentive,
although you're you're still attentive.
But our roles are still
going on the same path.
We're out there
working and doing providing.
On Sunday.
You know, like, yeah, same thing.
And like you said, their love language
many times is providing.
But how's the lawn look?
Yeah, which which is enough when we're in
the thick of raising children.
It's when it's when we focus on ourselves
again, we realize we want more from them.
Right. Yeah, we want to be seen.
And it's really more emotional.
Yes. Yeah. It's not
like I want you to buy
me more handbags or
take me on more vacations.
You're starting to realize, hey, I'd like
to have a conversation with you or let's
go to the movies and they're
like, well, I'm busy working.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I realize they come in
on the other side of it.
Yes, they have to
have time to transition.
It's not going to be on our timeline.
I'm going to get killed
by anybody watching this.
Any man there, like, dude, you folded.
I'm going to get this rated.
So I so probably part of where you see
yourself in five years is
your marriage is even stronger.
Yeah. Yeah.
I feel like where I see myself in five
years, as I think we're just being a
productive, fulfilled
woman, whatever that looks like.
You know, I think that the key is knowing
that you're still alive, that you still
can accomplish things that I mean, I
don't know if you
watch the Martha Stewart
documentary. I'm going to.
Well, this is like your chapters don't
end, you know, at 50.
There's a whole world out there.
And I don't really know specifically even
what kind of job I'm
going to end up doing.
But I know it's going to
be something, you know.
And I'm open to anything.
And and I I'm sure you
guys feel the same way.
Like I.
Feel like I'm 40.
Yeah, I feel like I'm 35, 40.
I still have.
You know, as that's for life, I still,
you know, and so I don't know.
I think this is just this
is who we're going to be.
This is like you said,
redefining what aging looks like.
Yeah. And I and I
think hopefully the younger
generations will see because Gen X is
also notorious for not giving a shit when
anyone thinks and I do think the younger
generations sometimes
care too much to a fault.
If you let go of some of what are caring
about what everyone thinks,
it does give you some
freedom and some liberation.
And I think that also that characteristic
of our generation really helps us as we
pioneer through and redefine because we
don't care like we don't care. We're
going to wear what we want.
We're going to wear
our hair the way we want.
We're going to whatever we need to do to
make ourselves feel good for.
We don't care about like
social standards or expectations.
You know, at least Gen X women, I think
generally are, you know, I wore my ugs
the other day and you know, I'm sure that
there's some 75 year
old woman that thought
I'm too old to wear them. I don't care.
Right. Like I honestly did
not come into that till later.
Like and I think it's because I grew up
moving around my whole life.
So I was always a chameleon assimilating
to whatever my environment was.
And I really remember discovering who I
was when I had kids.
Because when I had kids is when I started
not giving a shit about what people
thought, because now I'm like
focused on raising this life.
But but I do I did when I was younger.
I don't think I fell into that because I
always had to reinvent myself.
I didn't have to do that.
My brother, my sister didn't do that.
But that's what made me thrive was put
myself in
environments and rise to whatever
like, you know, where I
wanted to be fit in, you know.
And so I really didn't know
who I was until I had kids.
That makes sense. So
even through working.
Well, working, I mean, I that was my my
one solid thing that I had.
But I did, like I said, have
a lot of imposter syndrome.
But I also lived a little bit of a double
life, too, because I was in corporate
America Monday through Friday.
And then I was like partying on South
Beach on the weekends
because I was living
different lifestyles and whatever. So the
good and bad is I'm very adaptable.
But it does take took me a long time to
find my true authentic self.
And it's and when you became a mother,
that imposter syndrome gone.
Yeah, because you were you were.
You're in survival mode.
Yeah. Well, yeah. And you I think when
typically when you have children,
whatever I know for myself, whatever
issues you have kind of heal.
Yeah. As soon as they hand you that baby,
because your purpose is clear, your
purpose changes and now you're.
Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's just kind of it
settles some things, I think.
So so when do you get this certificate?
And you said next month.
February 15th, I'm taking the exam and
I was talking to a friend of mine who's a
retired teacher and I was telling her,
like, it's so difficult.
I can't do the flashcards.
I'm having a hard time memorizing.
I'm taking online classes.
And she was saying when she had kids who
had ADHD in her classrooms, that they
would like bounce on balls.
They would do other activities.
So to keep them
distracted, but allow them.
So I've been working on some projects for
college stuff that I'm making.
And I aced all three of the tests.
So I just found this thing where I can
I'm listening and I'm watching,
but I'm doing something with my hands.
So it helps me.
Wow. Okay.
Retain the information more.
So after each module,
there's like a study exam.
I mean, I'm not a study exam, like a
exam, a little thing
quiz on what you just
learned, and I was getting 60s because I
was seeing they're reading textbook.
And the last three I took, I got.
It's hard to go back.
What did you get on the last three?
All three of them got 88.
That's an angel number, by the way.
Oh, that's wonderful.
So it was just finding
that little distraction.
You know, I was still in front of the
screen, but I was doing my cricket.
And so, yeah, February 15th.
And then that'll be the
first step in that journey.
What is the certificate?
It's called.
So it's Jim Shurm, which is the greater.
Wait, it's Shurm.
So it's Society for
Human Resources Management.
And it's a national affiliation.
And you take this exam and it just kind
of like a CPA exam or real estate exam.
It covers everything
relevant and current in HR.
And if when I take that and people see
that I have that, they'll know that even
though I don't work in some years, I'm up
to date with everything kind of going on.
And and also that it will not like
substitute like it might.
I have 25 years experience.
The fact that I that this certificate is
much more valuable than I'd
agree that I got 25 years ago. Yeah.
You know, yeah, absolutely.
You're going to go back in.
It's I wonder if by the time you get back
in the DEI stuff will have run its course
because that's been a thing right for the
last five to seven years.
And listen, by the way,
I have zero experience.
I have zero experience in the area that I
didn't do well in with this because,
you know, I really is for the major
corporation, you know.
And I did work for a really big
corporation, but I was not in corporate
headquarters. It was the headquarters
were in Ohio, in Cincinnati.
So everything trickled down to me.
I wasn't part of the
process of getting that.
So I really don't have
very limited exposure.
I have zero exposure to that.
Yeah, that'll be if it's still
even going on, that'll be new.
I don't know if it will.
Well, I don't know if they're going to be
able to phase it out that quickly.
And I think that a lot of the bigger
companies will probably still keep some.
Some some of it.
Because right now, what
I've learning in this H.R.
stuff is that a lot of things
are really directed to global,
you know, global
industries, global business.
And I think that they have to keep some
sort of part of that going.
The D.I. for multicultural multicultural.
I think maybe some of the other stuff
might kind of, you know, but really,
if you are a big corporation, you do have
to be you have to be able to do business
in different countries and
show that you are equitable.
And and so.
But when you're working for a smaller
organization that's just like in Boca,
that's not going to
be something relevant.
That makes sense as relevant.
That makes sense.
So the certificate, does it
how does it kind of fulfill that that you
didn't go to college?
Is it kind of like coming full circle
with all this experience you've had,
all this life experience,
all this work experience?
What is the represent and
then you are having your midlife
awakening and
everything you've gone through?
This certificate probably represents way
more than anything you could have gotten
back when you were
twenty two. Yes, it does.
It's like it's my college degree.
Yeah. You know what I mean?
And it was it's the one thing that I've
walked through life.
Being ashamed of.
And that was like the root of a lot of my
insecurities because I would feel like I
wasn't good enough, even though I would
present, you know, whatever.
It was a whole internal thing.
And honestly, like when I
said it out loud, it freed me.
When I told my son, I was like, I told
him this whole speech
because he was like,
I need to know where you went to college
and what you graduated.
And I was like, oh, he
goes, OK, so where is that?
That was his response.
And then I said, well, it's a nice little
Florida and then Pensacola, Florida.
He's like, then by the way, Alex doesn't
have a college degree either.
Alex went straight to
working with his dad.
So he calls us back.
He goes, my chances
of getting into FSU or
just got higher because
I'll be first generation.
Oh, wow.
So I just like, you know, I really
appreciate you looking at it that way.
Like you free me.
Yes. Yeah.
That's precious. Yeah.
I love that.
So I'm just thinking of some of the I
work with at least four
or five guys that I can
think of extremely,
extremely bright and capable.
None of them have degrees or certificates
of like computing stuff.
And these guys are geniuses.
They program, they
automate, they do a ton of stuff.
So it's interesting that, you know, even
like Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates,
none of these guys finished college.
What your industry that you're in kind of
is the, you know, exception probably.
It's an exception.
It's also like that, like a lot because
these people you don't fit in
like when they talk about the academic
environment, you know,
there's this whole thing where the A
students are working for the C students
and B students because when you're
creative and you're
especially when it comes to
information, technology, computer,
science, like this is
most of us can't even
understand it, you know, so it's led the
way to a lot of these companies
looking at revamping their job
descriptions, Google and such to.
And that's your industry that has led
like spearhead the last few people I've
don't look at college
degree or certification.
That is so quite frankly, if
someone has a certification,
I question it because there may be aren't
we need people that are hackers kind of
figure stuff out, create to your point,
create make stuff in your industry.
By the time you have a
certification is already obsolete.
Right. Very true.
The technology changes very fast.
Yeah. You touched on that earlier in the
podcast that there is a shift and that
companies aren't always
looking for the college degree anymore.
So there is a which I think is is a
positive thing
because a lot of these kids
are coming out of school, hundreds of
thousands of dollars in debt for what?
So if there is a shift, I think it
actually helps a lot of kids get ahead.
Or have a chance or a
chance without crippling debt.
Yeah. Like right now
with social media, right?
Who are you hiring to do
your social media management?
You're hiring a young kid who doesn't
have a college degree.
They understand this.
They know the nuances
and they're in high demand.
Have you ever looked to
see how much they charge?
I mean, it's pretty like you buy a
package and you get like
this package of X amount
of this X amount of that
and it's like three grand.
Yeah. You know, so and by the way, you
can't teach that in the class.
No teach classes of that.
So so they there was a little niche right
there just to show you.
And every single
organization relies on social media.
Yeah. One hundred percent.
One hundred percent. It's actually Kaya
does that at her job in her
in her she's marketing and she
does that as part of the job.
Yeah. No, it's it's vital.
So all right.
So we're going to see you in
five years in your new career.
Yeah.
And you and Alex will
be doing your walks.
Yes. Yes.
And who knows where the boys will be.
I know.
But we'd love to have you
back on and do a follow up.
Oh my gosh. Thank you.
I first of all, I admire you guys.
I wanted to say that I've been watching
all your podcasts even before.
Like it just like popped up.
I remember I texted you and you did.
And I just think it's a really gen.
This is like our generation, like talking
about the things that you're talking
about that are real, that people aren't
talking about marriage, menopause,
all these things. So I was beyond
flattered that you invited me.
And I really enjoyed it.
And I really admire you guys.
I'm really glad you came.
I thought this was great.
Thank you.
You're part of our midlife awakening.
Yeah.
But that's all that
we're trying to share.
Right.
We know a good walking loop to that.
We do. Yeah.
We walked by here last night.
OK. Yeah.
Yeah. We we have what we walk really
close to your house.
A nice four mile loop you can do here.
Yeah. Yeah.
So yeah.
If anyone's caught on,
we also are neighbors.
We live in similar close neighborhoods.
Yeah. Yeah. We are.
But again, thank you for coming on.
We really have and for sharing so
authentically your story.
And your outlook and your
your hope for your future.
Thank you for sharing that with our
listeners and with us.
Because I know there's a lot of people
that can relate to a
lot of what you said.
So thank you.
I hope so. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
And we'll see everybody next time.
We welcome any questions, comments.
And thank you so much for listening.
Bye.