Episode 18 - GenX Speaks Series: Kendall's Story

[Music] Welcome to GenX Adulting and today we have Kendall with us as our special guest. And our first question is always what year were you born? 1971. Okay. Specifically tomorrow. Oh yes. With this for a lifetime. And if this drops when we're hoping it drops, it will drop on your birthday. No really. Yeah. Oh, that's our goal. So we'll see if Ryan can work his magical editing skills. So you are GenX. Hardcore GenX. Right in there. Right in there. In the thick of it. In the thick of it. Where were you born? I was born in Oregon City, Oregon. Okay. And how long did you live there? Did you grow up there your whole life? I was there until I was 10 and then my family moved to a little town literally in the middle of Alaska. Literally, if you looked at a map and pointed your finger, you'd practically hit it. Called Delta Junction, Alaska. Okay. So why Oregon City? My family, my dad's family started farming there. My great grandfather. They all sat grandfather and my grandmother's actually family. Settled their homesteading and then farming. So they were part of the Wild West coming over for the Wild West. My great grandfather was born in 1987. 1887? I mean 1887. Yeah. My grandmother was 1914. My grandmother's family was from Wales. Okay. Came over. My grandfather's family was from Germany originally. I don't really know anything beyond like they ended up there. I don't know how. Okay. That's been lost in some of the pieces of it. And my parents, my grandparents obviously were, there was quite a bit of a difference. My grandma was 18 when they got married. My grandfather farmed. They had, I think, 70 some odd acres in Beaver Creek and my grandfather also worked for the county. There's a road in Beaver Creek named

My grandma was 18 when they got married. My grandfather farmed. They had, I think, 70 some odd acres in Beaver Creek and my grandfather also worked for the county. There's a road in Beaver Creek named after my maiden name. Really? Mm hmm. Out there. Because your grandfather was what? Like a mayor or something? No, he worked with the county, got to name the road and it's like a main thoroughfare. Sorry. Main thoroughfare from the Beaver Creek store up the hill, the Spangler kind of thing. No way. Yeah. That is so cool. So they settled in Oregon City, which is really Beaver Creek specifically. Okay. Beaver Creek. All right. So for listeners, Oregon City is part of Portland Metro, right? Correct. How far from say downtown Portland would it be? I don't track anything in mileage anymore, which is different than how I grew up to back in the day. So, but that's dependent on traffic and it could be, you know, I used to work downtown and it would take me an hour, an hour and a half some days. So it's like two in the morning on a Saturday. It's probably 20 miles or 20 minutes. Yeah, exactly. So what did they farm? Hey, mainly hay. They had, but they also had sheep. We had sheep. They had sheep cows. We had beef cattle for the longest time growing up. I didn't realize that hamburger and other steaks came in anything other than a white butcher paper. Yeah. Interesting. So we moved to Alaska and I'm like, why is this plastic? You know, privilege at the time, but probably with sustenance too. I mean, we took care of ourselves. Yeah. And probably such high quality beef and and tasted amazing and that's all you knew. And then it's like people who have raised their own vegetables and stuff, which we did not do. Or at least my family didn't.

and tasted amazing and that's all you knew. And then it's like people who have raised their own vegetables and stuff, which we did not do. Or at least my family didn't. Yeah, it's a whole different ball game experience. Yeah. So that was your dad then he he was a farmer. He grew up on a farm, grew up working a farm. Yeah. And was a farmer. He was one of nine and he was one of nine. Nine. Yeah. My grandma had eight eight births because my dad was a twin. Okay. And the boy there was four boys and five girls and the boys were at the farm and the girls were didn't but I don't I don't know that it was a my grandfather was a was a very stoic. Archie bunker type but not as verbal I guess I mean and I was four when you passed away. And so I just remember like my grandmother kind of helped raise me until I was 10 and when I say raise me, she just cared for me. My mom worked. My mom was an educator and she went to school and to get her graduate degree and everything and my dad was going all the time working selling machinery. He did a lot of things and but all working for himself mostly selling tractors building full barns very hands-on agriculture background agriculture background very much. You know, we didn't drive anywhere on I-5. You took the back roads. You took 99 to get to Salem kind of thing. Right. Thanks a lot. Yeah, right. But so my grandmother was a very very very important person in my life. And so I was with her from basically my mom says that when my mom and dad when my dad asked my mom to marry her my mom dropped out of college. She was at U of O and she moved. She came up to Oregon City and they asked permission of my my grandmother and my grandma, which is my dad's dad said, okay, you guys can get married, which I

She was at U of O and she moved. She came up to Oregon City and they asked permission of my my grandmother and my grandma, which is my dad's dad said, okay, you guys can get married, which I don't know that they really needed permission. But I guess it was respecting. Yeah. And my dad was very much a mom's boy. And so my grandma said yes, as long as you finish school because my mom of all of my grandmother's even though it's my dad's family, they didn't go on to one aunt continued her education out of all of those women. Initially another aunt like did more. I mean, they all did fine later on. They were business people and whatnot, but it just wasn't that that time in space. I think in the 60s, it wasn't a foregone conclusion. No, not at all. Oh, right. Yeah. And you know, so then your mom. So was she saying for your mom to finish college, which grandmother was saying that my dad's mom. Oh, so your dad's mom, my paternal did not want my mom to lose out on her education because she was literally almost done. She needed like maybe a year left. So when she moved up, she started at Portland State and then they got pregnant with me pretty much right after they got married in 69 and into 70 and she went to Portland State and then did some class like when she was pregnant with me. She was going to college and my grandma basically took care of me from, you know, other than my mom and dad, you know, when my mom get home. But so my grandma was my person. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, which hurts my mom's feelings sometimes to this day, right? Right. But she was my person. I think grandmas, there's many instances where the grandmother is the child's person for different reasons. So your dad is a farmer basically or works in the agriculture

Right. But she was my person. I think grandmas, there's many instances where the grandmother is the child's person for different reasons. So your dad is a farmer basically or works in the agriculture industry in some way space. Yeah, your mom is a teacher educator. You guys are in Beaver Creek and did you have siblings? My younger brother, he was born in 74. Okay. He's also Gen X. He is just turned 50, which I don't see him as 50. You see him as 17. Yeah. But yeah, so we live there eventually. So we lived in different locations within Oregon or within Beaver Creek. And then the last couple years we were there before we ended up moving to Alaska, we actually bought about I think it was 23, 25 acres of the of the farm. And then my dad, you know, contractors, but built us our house. Oh, wow. Yeah. So my dad, we had a it was an awesome house and a huge bull barn and then we had Christmas trees. So this was we had a full Christmas tree farm and that is so cool. So you spent part of your formative years growing up on a Christmas tree farm. Yeah, and I didn't have to work it was great. Yeah. Yeah. It's awesome. But do you remember people come was it a kite you're like your cell? No, no, it was full on. Yeah. And like that was a big thing out in Beaver Creek still is quite honestly. Yeah. And so they were all enmeshed in that with the people and so that was right at the end of that. They started doing the thing where they'd come in and haul with helicopters. So, you know, they cut the trees. The guys would come in cut the trees bundle them and then you pick them up with a helicopter. Really? That's a real shock when you're not expecting a helicopter out your back bedroom window. Yeah. Did they do that for all of the trees?

pick them up with a helicopter. Really? That's a real shock when you're not expecting a helicopter out your back bedroom window. Yeah. Did they do that for all of the trees? Like was it was it like hand selecting which tree? No, this was because I mean this type of Christmas tree farm you're you're growing and I'm talking like I know these things. I kind of don't but you know, you're growing like this fields ready to go and they just cut the whole thing. Yeah. And then you move to the next and so this one's ready next year and this one's ready next year and that's like when we've had fires and huge, you know, weather things in the last few years, you know, to wipe out a whole crop, but it's really wiping out the babies because you know, they haven't rooted and all the things. So yeah. So then why a helicopter? What were those special trees? They weren't special. It was just the most cost-effective way to get them up out of the thing in a large bundle and then take them to be to ship off because all of these trees were shipped off. These weren't trees to hang out. Yeah. In Oregon to go by the Christmas tree. Okay. They were going to like California or something. California, Hawaii, Mexico. There you go. That is so interesting. Yeah. Okay. So you guys are running a Christmas tree farm in Beaver Creek. That was like a side hustle. Okay. It wasn't the main thing. Right. Like it was just right. And so you were an actual farm girl. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I was. Yeah. I mean, I spent a lot of time riding around with my dad. I mean, that was actually my dad was a man of very, very, very few words, but I win like on a Saturday or something. He had stuff to do. He'd take me and a lot of times my younger brother, we'd be in the truck

man of very, very, very few words, but I win like on a Saturday or something. He had stuff to do. He'd take me and a lot of times my younger brother, we'd be in the truck with him long before seat belts and all the things. Of course. As all Gen Xers will be able to relate to. None of that going on and we'd go out and he'd be buying machinery or you know, delivering something or whatever and we'd play on the truck or in wherever we were. We'd end up playing. I learned how to pee outside because you figured it out or you weren't going to do it. Yeah. Yeah, so it was and I have really happy memories of that. Mm-hmm. I don't remember. I mean that was just those are like nostalgic memories. I guess probably yeah, whether they were or not. I've turned them into that. Right. Right. Which we do probably. Definitely. So then why Alaska? I would like to know that question. The answer to that question to my mom. My dad's passed away and but my mom and I never asked him that question. But my mom says now is just always my always my dad's dream. But it's like what in 1970 or whatever 72 75 whatever what would have said Alaska especially at that time. Yeah, I was like, you know, they were just building the pipeline. They the Alaska Highway hadn't even been I mean, it wasn't fully paid when we moved up and the whole thing. So I don't really know if it was just the sense of wide open spaces. I don't know if it was something that after Vietnam he wanted to get the heck out of Dodge. I don't know. I really don't but he had through the whole farming community. He actually knew a very large family kind of Salem Woodburned Silverton based area that had a lot of property up there to farm. And then he actually how he got he sold

whole farming community. He actually knew a very large family kind of Salem Woodburned Silverton based area that had a lot of property up there to farm. And then he actually how he got he sold machinery up there initially when we for a big international dealer franchise, I guess. And so he kind of had a hookup and then my mom was able to get a job up there and at that time Alaska you can make bank to make money. Yeah, because yeah, and it was it was I mean it was so she was making I don't know exact numbers, but I'm assuming she was making significantly more than she was working at Redland School District. Right, right, whatever. So what was what the schools you went to down in Beaver Creek? I I don't know how big those schools were but when you moved to Alaska, was it similar as far as population? Oh God, no. I don't know what the Beaver Creek school does. So the school that I went to which is Beaver Creek Elementary because we left I was in fourth grade. I was so annoyed because by moving I wasn't going to get to go to outdoor school. Do you remember that was such a big deal? Every Oregonian knows outdoor school. Oh, outdoor school is fun. I think it was a week, right? Yeah. Yeah. We would get on buses and we would have to bring our camp. Not we were in cabins, but you still bring a sleeping bag and all that and you live. You said you should it was educational. It's kind of like Friday the 13th type cabin vibe. Yeah, but not scary. And what age? It's great or sixth grade sixth grade. I think sixth grade sixth grade. So I was I was still a year away from it, but I was just you're almost there. I was almost there. I mean, that's what you you worked for. Outdoor school. Yeah, outdoor school was and every day

So I was I was still a year away from it, but I was just you're almost there. I was almost there. I mean, that's what you you worked for. Outdoor school. Yeah, outdoor school was and every day you did something nature related and learned about things and it was something like that. Yeah, because we were in Oregon. Yeah, right. I mean everything was there. So oh my gosh, you didn't get to go to a door. I didn't get to go to outdoor school. My kids did so they got to live it for me. That's good. I wasn't a week though. I only got to go for like three days. Oh, you can learn how to grow weed. I don't need to grow it. It's legal. If somebody else is growing it, you can just go walk into a dispensary for it. Yes, it's very easy now. There's no yeah, there's no there's no need to like mess with your own. It's a lot better if you probably don't definitely. So was there a culture shock though when you started school in Alaska? It the school was not the culture shock. Right. So I mean, okay. So I can get a little bit so you have to imagine, you know, we were we were very comfortable in Oregon City. I had very much the or in Beaver Creek. We have I had very much that life where you know, you went to school. Obviously, I went home after school to grandma then went home. Mom made dinner even though she was working full-time. My dad would either be there be there later because he's out doing whatever and then every Sunday you went to church, you know, went to Sunday school and then you went home and then you went to Grandma's and had, you know, lunch brunch kind of thing and she'd make fried chicken or whatever. And then all the other aunts and uncles not all of them out every time but would be out there all the cousins would be at there.

she'd make fried chicken or whatever. And then all the other aunts and uncles not all of them out every time but would be out there all the cousins would be at there. I mean, I've got I think I've got 35 immediate cousins, but my dad was going on the lower end. So I've got cousins that are retired now. I mean long retired, you know that are in there. I mean, that makes sense because he's one of nine. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. My oldest aunt, I think is almost 90. I mean, I can I always have to like pull up the birthdays and do the math. But yeah, anyway, so so they got taken from that. Yes, which was traumatic and taken as a key word. Oh, I fully would have sold I was I was taken 100% taken. My brother was about six, almost seven, I guess. And we went up there. We drove up and a half ton pickup the four of us not a dual or like backseat. All four of us in the front seat. Oh my goodness. Whatever we didn't put on a shipping container to get up there. Which that's how all of our other stuff got was in the back of the truck. And we drove from here to Alaska through on that or the Alaska Highway. You know, went through customs on that was was the whole thing. How far of a drive was that? It's 25 about hunt 2500 miles. Okay, I don't know how long it took us that time. I've got some really interesting pictures of myself. But I just remember, you know, you had this cassette thing and like every there's certain songs, old country songs that I hear that I'm just like, oh, I'm back in the truck. You know, you're right back there. Yeah, exactly. What makes me think of my dad and then when we first got there, wherever we were we were going to move, which was above this machine shop where my dad was selling machinery wasn't ready for.

What makes me think of my dad and then when we first got there, wherever we were we were going to move, which was above this machine shop where my dad was selling machinery wasn't ready for. So we moved into this like single wide trailer out on this other property that was like off of a gravel pit. And we were there in August, early August because mom's because we started school there and like mid August or whatever and it snowed. Oh my gosh. And there was no heat in which is that was that was rare. It doesn't really snow in August. But whatever happened, there was no heat in this trailer. Like we're literally off, you know, four of us are like in on the mattress on the floor with sleeping bags. I remember my parents put us in the truck and drove us to Fairbanks, which was two hours away in the nearest city. Right. Just so we got in to stay warm. Yeah, you know, it's like and we were just like so you guys were you were pulled out of this the most comfortable wholesome Norman Rockwell life. Right in my mind. Yeah, Christmas tree farm Hallmark. It sounds like a Hallmark. It does. Yeah, warm and cozy. Yeah, like it's idyllic and 10. That's what it felt like. Of course it wasn't. Yeah, I'm talking about your perspective at that age to it's snowing in mid August and we're freezing and it doesn't look like anything. I'm familiar with right because it's there's not a single single Douglas fir to be seen there all these scrawny weird-looking trees really birch trees, which I love now. That's like one of my favorite tree. Yeah. Oh, yeah, because it's too cold. Can't like really get going right? You don't think about that, but they just yeah, you should see what people think of. There's a Christmas tree. If you go cut your own, it's ridiculous.

Can't like really get going right? You don't think about that, but they just yeah, you should see what people think of. There's a Christmas tree. If you go cut your own, it's ridiculous. Wow, I would have thought it was similar to Oregon and Washington forests. No, no, there are these really, you know, I'll show you a picture sometimes. Yeah. Well, there are parts of Alaska that have forests and stuff. Well, there's forests. It's just very different than the forest I was used to right and you know, being in Oregon, you know, we've got the huge, you know, I mean not that we had the redwoods, but you know what I mean? Yeah, and I we went to school in an area where that was like that anyways. Yeah. So yeah, so the school part was obviously I was the new kid and how big were the classes like was the class size significantly smaller than in Beaver Creek? No, actually the the elementary portion of felt kind of typical, but like the size of the elementary school I went to in Beaver Creek was probably the similar to the size that I went to up but my elementary school was also the high school. Okay, so they were like attached the elementary is kind of this end. There was the little gym where we also did the cap, which was the cafeteria to you and then this side was like the high school and the big gym, which is like the actual sport gym, right stuff like that. So what's their middle school? The middle school is in the military base. So Delta Junction was adjacent to Fort Greeley at the time, which is decommissioned now, but they do missile stuff. Things up there now. I don't know what they do, but and that's where the middle school and there was another elementary school out there for the kids that did live on post.

Things up there now. I don't know what they do, but and that's where the middle school and there was another elementary school out there for the kids that did live on post. And so I went to middle school there. Okay, so and then the high schoolers came in so they were the highest they came in to be bused in for the high school. We got bused out for okay, her middle school, but so the junior high when I was a kid. Yeah, same same same same. So the military kids you went to school with the military kids in high school junior high in high school. Yeah, but not elementary school elementary. Did you go to? I'm sorry. Did they have their own elementary school on the base? They had their own. Okay. Did you go to school with like Native Alaskans? There was a few in our town. Not many. Not many at all in that area. I mean, I had experience in Fairbanks. There was a lot of Native folks in Fairbanks and then through sports. I we went to towns where they were predominantly Native and specifically Barrow, which is called something else now that I can't pronounce and I'm sorry for that. But which was all Native pretty much. Yeah. Yeah, and he had to fly in to play. So what would you say your biggest culture shock was that you can remember at that time? It was for me. The culture shock was just the environment itself and it was just nothing like I'd lived my life and you don't expect that right and then for me, it was my it was my family. It was my grandma. It was not having that touchstone and you know, everything that I'd known up until that point was different in the sense that you know, I rode the bus to school, which I rode the bus to and from school at my grandma's, but you know, I came home to my grandma here.

I'd known up until that point was different in the sense that you know, I rode the bus to school, which I rode the bus to and from school at my grandma's, but you know, I came home to my grandma here. This is very Gen X of me. So I was would have been 10 turning 11 that year in fifth grade. We if we didn't stay after school with my so my mom worked in the same elementary school. She was a kindergarten teacher. And either we stayed with her, but she worked she worked long. She was a teacher that went to school way early and stayed way late. She didn't check in check out, you know, right as the bells ringing kind of thing. And so if we went home, you know, there was nobody home or we went home in the first year. We were home. My dad was technically there or there were people there, but not in our apartment above this machine shop, you know, it was just so you know, you offended for yourself. You had a snack and watch whatever was on TV afterwards or whatever. I don't remember having homework that first year. I remember and every my mom, I don't think really wanted to do this and she did it for my dad. And so she was miserable. I think my dad was fine. I think he was had his he had his things right and my mom became fine with school and creating her space there and did quite well that way. Ultimately, she became a principal. But yeah, that first year was just was rough was rough and like that, but I will tell you so they tried to get us out at Christmas time to come down for Christmas because that's a that's a big deal. Especially like I was in the church thing. I was in the church play every year. I was Mary the last I mean this like all these like yeah, status things when you're little took you. They took me away

in the church thing. I was in the church play every year. I was Mary the last I mean this like all these like yeah, status things when you're little took you. They took me away from all of them took me. I've actually it's funny. I've never really thought of it like that, but it did feel like that. So they tried to get us out at Christmas, which I can't even imagine what those tickets would have cost back in that time and there were very few flights in and out of Fairbanks. And so they couldn't because they were booked and so they actually flew us out for Thanksgiving, which would have been a long weekend, right? My mom couldn't take time out from school. She barely started. Right. So what means we like flew up probably Wednesday night at midnight on the midnight flight and you know, we're back by Sunday. So that Christmas at home, I can picture it and I've seen pictures of course, so it helps stamp that it was like a divorced family's Christmas where like the kids get so much stuff, right? And we joke about it now because it's like the trees in the corner, which is kind of dead because we had to buy a live one and they don't really live well up there and like there's toys and like I got a doll. I mean all this stuff just out skate. I mean it was it was right to make up for the fact that you couldn't be down and be very much a makeup situation. Well, I mean that makes sense. Yeah, so is when I picture Alaska, I've never been there. And so when I picture Alaska, I picture cold in the winter. Yeah, and I picture it's always light in the summer. Okay, so in the cold, it's dark. Okay, and in the summer, it's like and warm. So when would the winter descend on average? I mean pretty much September it starts right.

always light in the summer. Okay, so in the cold, it's dark. Okay, and in the summer, it's like and warm. So when would the winter descend on average? I mean pretty much September it starts right. Well, Alaska, I mean we do that. They do this now a little bit more in the news that I've noticed where they say like, oh you're gaining two minutes of light or you're losing two minutes light in Alaska. That is like a predominant part of the newscast or was back then. I mean I live there for a long long time. So I'm this was also the 80s or the yeah, it 82 up there. And so yeah, I mean basically you're gaining daylight until you start to lose it and that's like September and then it just gets more and more significant and by the time you hit solstice and that kind of thing. I mean technically, I mean there's pictures of it, but you know the Sun does this it doesn't do this right. Right, right. And so it feels like your day's always dusk. Okay, until it's dark. Well, you know where the Sun is right? It's down here. Yeah, well, I know I know it's here. Yeah, it's I don't I what's interesting. It didn't the darkness didn't bother me as a kid or teenager that I recall the cold did because where we lived in the interior. It was very cold. I mean it was you know, it's not as normal now or maybe as often. I don't know but you know, our winters were 20 below zero. That was standard. You know sometime in that way and and it was really super dry where we lived and so you had snow and it would drift and blow off the road. So like we didn't have chains or you know, they had no tires. Yeah, you know, it would ice up if you had a little warm snap or whatever, but we went outside recess until 20 below. Wow. Yeah, you we didn't get out of school until it was 60 below

Yeah, you know, it would ice up if you had a little warm snap or whatever, but we went outside recess until 20 below. Wow. Yeah, you we didn't get out of school until it was 60 below zero and that was only because they wouldn't run the buses because the ice fog from the exhaust would create really bad, you know, really bad issues with the with the roads. You wouldn't be able to see in fact, yeah, then some kind of nasty accidents because of that. It's it's five degrees in Fairbanks right now. Yeah, I just like it out. That is crazy. So it's cold. It's cold and it's like that for you know, from October until breakup, which is, you know, usually. April ish, give or take like usually by the time we had prom. It was clear and that would have been in April probably. So breakup would have happened, which is what we call when all the snow goes away. That's what it's called. So is seasonal depression a big thing? I'm there. I'm sure it is. We didn't have those terms. Right, right, right. Of course not. Right. And I mean, I think it is where we're from in Oregon too. I didn't have those terms because I didn't I didn't realize I grew up in gray. I had no idea. I had no idea. I was growing up in gray, right? Honestly until I moved to Ashland, I think because in Ashland we got more clear skies. Totally and it could be cold, but blue skies. I'd never had that before really and that and so I think in Alaska you probably don't realize you are half seasonal depression until you probably leave there. Well, and that's when the Sun is out, right? Even though even if it's a short way to a time a lot of times it was bright Sun like you wore sunglasses all winter, right? Because it's reflecting off the snow too, but because it's bright and clear.

short way to a time a lot of times it was bright Sun like you wore sunglasses all winter, right? Because it's reflecting off the snow too, but because it's bright and clear. Okay, short period of time. Right, right, right. So I wonder if the cold is what might cause it or like what you know, the dark. I think the dark. It's the dark. The dark comes in quick, right? Okay. Got very little time. Yeah. Yeah. So how long were you there? Were you there through high school? I went fifth grade to and I graduated high school there. So my graduating class was about 50 ish. Wow. So my entire high school was about 200 or so give or take. So did everybody date everybody? Not everybody but yes, pretty much everybody worked through everybody. You circled the drain on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. I mean you had your ones that you know, we're high school sweethearts all the way through or whatever, but the interesting is is by being there I became or I was a big fish in a very little pond, right? And so the cool thing was to be in sports and I played basketball and I played volleyball and I was a four-year varsity letterman in basketball and you know got to travel and it was a real privilege to do that because back then or I'm still you're not your nearest town is two hours away and the nearest town in our league was three hours away. So that means you got on the bus on Friday afternoon at some point sometimes JV, but usually and then always varsity get on the bus. You went to Lake St. Glen Allen because that was the nearest one you got off the bus. You'd play your games Friday. You'd stay the night at the school. They'd feed you and then get up Saturday and you'd have a full day of games and you get on the bus and they'd bring you home.

bus. You'd play your games Friday. You'd stay the night at the school. They'd feed you and then get up Saturday and you'd have a full day of games and you get on the bus and they'd bring you home. Wait, you slept at the school in the classrooms. What a trip. Whoa. Yeah, that's crazy. You know that we had a Christmas tournament in Valdez every year which was so much fun because it was multiple schools in one place. Yeah, Valdez was a five-hour bus ride. Wow. And are we talking school buses or luxury buses? Honey, honey. I don't even know if they had luxury buses. Actually, I'm sorry. The luxury buses were the tourist buses that came up all summer. Okay. Yeah, the no we it was school buses school buses school. Was there heat? Well, there was heat but I mean, you know, your those seats are hard. Those seats are hard and there's a whole yeah, and there's a whole hierarchy and all your stuff's in there and your ear. What about the parents? They're following in cars that far away. They very few parents would come. Oh and we're Gen X. They didn't come. See you Monday. Could you imagine now? Oh my God. Be like a convoy. You're saying Mary. No, but I bet I wonder if up in Alaska, you know, I'm sure there's similar helicopter parenting that's going on. And so I bet now there's a little trail of cars behind those buses and in some cases they would write you to have a couple that would travel more often than others or if it was like going up to Ileson, which is the Air Force Base just before Fairbanks people come to that one like that. Yeah, that far, you know, yeah, but and but they were at every home game every single right and more people that you know, it was like remember the scene in Dazed and Confused where

Yeah, that far, you know, yeah, but and but they were at every home game every single right and more people that you know, it was like remember the scene in Dazed and Confused where he shows up at the baseball and the old guys like hey, how's the arm or whatever and he's like that kid that guy doesn't even have a grandkid in school anymore. Right. That was what we had. You had folks that they just that's what they did. What was an event? It was an event for that town basketball volleyball and hockey. Of course, but the hockey rings were outside. My brother played hockey. It was great, but it sucked to have to be a purchase, you know, so cold. Yeah. But yeah, so we got to do all so I was traveled to I mean, we had one of our my senior year. We went to Regionals in Cordova, which was a five-hour bus ride to Valdez and a five-hour ferry ride to Cordova. Wow. So all of the schools in our league were there. We play our tournament. We didn't do great, but we played our tournament. Well, there was this we almost didn't get to go because we were having this horrific. Sorry, I'm totally this memory is like coming to me. But this is great that we had this horrific storm and we almost didn't get to go because it was 60 below zero and they didn't want the bus to go, but it's basketball. Yeah, we're going to make this happen. Right. So they do they get us down there. We play our games, whatever and then it's, you know, Sunday probably and we're supposed to be getting back on the ferry to get back and repeat the process and this storm has come through through the South and the ferry like we went down to the ferry and the ferry is like doing this at the you can't get on the ferry. Right. So we were stuck. We had to stay.

through through the South and the ferry like we went down to the ferry and the ferry is like doing this at the you can't get on the ferry. Right. So we were stuck. We had to stay. Meantime the school has school on Monday. Right. So all of these teams are stuck there. Oh, wow. So where did you all sleep? They would shuttle us between the we'd sleep in the classrooms and then they'd shuttle us like into the into the gym, but then they had to feed us and I remember they would bring us a video. You know, this is back when you had the VCR in a cart. Yes, and they bring us a video, you know, we could watch movies or whatever and of course, we didn't have our homework or anything like that. And so I think we were there maybe until Wednesday and they finally were like, okay, we got to fly home. Wow. And so they put us on an airplane, you know, one of the small ones and they flew us into Fairbanks and I mean how many airplanes because all those teams are had to have been a bunch of little airplanes. I'm sure they had multiples. Yeah, because I mean at that time it would have been at least six, six, seven, eight schools. I don't know how many. Wow, but yeah, so. So sports was your vehicle to travel. It was and just to get away from yeah, the same the same. Yeah, small town over and over. I mean, it was the same people over and over, but yeah, yeah, so then in a small town like that, I assume there's one grocery store. Yeah, and like what a couple restaurants. Yeah, we had a grocery store, which is not where so it was interesting. I think because of where we came from, we lived Alaska a little differently than people that maybe had always lived there, right? Or you know, my friends that have been born there and their families that that came

lived Alaska a little differently than people that maybe had always lived there, right? Or you know, my friends that have been born there and their families that that came there and so like the grocery store for us was where to get milk and you needed lettuce and you know, kind of the those things and then at least once a month we went to Fairbanks and you know, you'd come home with $400 which back then would have been a lot, you know, the whole back of the thing would be full. There was no Costco or anything, but it was that kind of situation. Fred Myers was basically it. Yeah, there was a Fred Mars. Mm-hmm. Yeah in Fairbanks and a Safeway. Yeah, okay and an Albert's no market back which I think was Albertson's but but we would go up there and on the way home and North Pole we would make my mom go through the drive-through McDonald's was the last fast food. We'd get McDonald's the big thing. This was more high school, but we'd get McDonald's and you know, you have your special McDonald's and then you'd get extra and then you take it home and then you take that school the next day. Oh, cool. Because you had a big mat. I mean, it's just no that makes sense. That makes sense. We did have a tasty freeze. Oh, I forgot about tasty freeze. Did you say North Pole? Mm-hmm. So North Pole Alaska what that's the town or where Santa's? Well, it's both Santa's there. It's not it's not the literal North Pole Brian. That is to melon under the thing someplace. No. No, there's a town called North Pole, Alaska and they actually have a place called like if you ever toured there, that's like a big tourist thing, right? They have Santa Claus house. Okay. And you know, you could go like have your mail stamp with the North Pole and stuff.

toured there, that's like a big tourist thing, right? They have Santa Claus house. Okay. And you know, you could go like have your mail stamp with the North Pole and stuff. That's cool. That's really cool. Yeah, North Pole and it's it's much more. It's like a suburb now of Fairbanks. Okay, okay. It's just a little north of Ileson, which is there for space and then just south of Fairbanks. I didn't know that I didn't know there was a North Pole. Stop me in my tracks. Yeah. I know you were like, wait, what? Santa? So, okay. So you graduate high school with your class of 50 and what decision did you make? Did you say in Alaska? Did you go to school in Fairbanks? Like what did you do? So basically I grew up so my mom backtracking a little bit. My mom grew up in Klamath Falls with three siblings and somehow or another they they grew up very poor very my grandfather worked very hard, but you know, they just didn't have a lot and somehow three of my aunts ended up going to college and graduating getting furthering their their degrees and that kind of or their their education and so my mom's expectation was you either go to school or you go to the military. There's nothing else and so I always grew up going I'm going to college. I'm going to college and so we when we lived up there every summer once school ended my mom would pack my brother and I up in the car and we would drive to Oregon and we spent the entire summer in Oregon until mom needed to go back to school and so later on like we did a school tour and we went to you about because that's where my mom went. So sure. I'd want to go there scared the crap out of me because it was huge. I mean, you have always probably bigger than Fairbanks at the

about because that's where my mom went. So sure. I'd want to go there scared the crap out of me because it was huge. I mean, you have always probably bigger than Fairbanks at the time, right and I'm like, my aunt and uncle lived in Central Point and so that's where we spent most of our summer. So I spent, you know, a lot of time, immigrant Lake, you know, we had families still in Klamath Falls, you know, camping at, you know, Lake of the Woods, all the things doing that. So we spent a lot of time in Ashland, which is where Southern Oregon University was. It's not a sock anymore. No, now it's not an organ. We all went it was Southern Oregon State College. So I toured that school and then it's like, okay, this makes and obviously was already comfortable with town. Yeah, but this felt right. Like I could live here. So that's where I went and I don't even think I applied anywhere else and I never went and saw the Oregon State. I might have made a difference that decision. Maybe who knows? So you applied to Southern Oregon University. Yep. And so and you got accepted. Obviously, I did really well. I did really well in school without trying. The unfortunate part of that is the education and I don't know if that's true. Still the education in my school at the time was probably not very great. I mean, it was pretty in Alaska, Alaska and my town specifically, right? Delta and so I didn't learn how to because I didn't have to. I didn't learn how to study. Didn't learn how to do anything more than I needed to do just to pass, but that didn't serve me. Do you think that was also because you were the big fish in a small pond and you were athletic and all that like you kind of shuffled along? Probably I also think that

Do you think that was also because you were the big fish in a small pond and you were athletic and all that like you kind of shuffled along? Probably I also think that there was it wasn't challenging at all and I don't in a lot of the I just don't think the teachers challenged anymore of anyone, right? But I mean there were there were kids in my school that were like super smart and are and did well, right? So there was also something probably in me like it's not just their fault. Right, right, right, right, right. It was like the combo. Right, right, right. Yeah, I didn't have to. So why would I? Right. Well, did you find Southern Oregon University challenging? I found school challenging not because I wasn't smart enough to be there. I didn't know how to do school. I didn't know how to because my life before that was like, okay, great. I've got a paper, right? So I wrote it the day before. Well, that only goes so far in college, even in the late 80s. Yeah, right. Yeah, and I didn't know how to you know, looking back now, I have all this different language and these different viewpoints. I think I had a lot of anxiety too and feeling like a country bumpkin from you know, whatever in this environment. And so I was real into the social piece because I could excel with that and I think you know kids that grew up. I was the kid with the report card that always said well, she's she's fantastic. We love her. She talks too much. She has to you know, what I mean? I think I probably had some undiagnosed girl version of ADHD. I still do but I didn't know how to manage that appropriately in school. So I became very social more social and spent way too much time focused on that and lost myself in the process. And I think I got I mean there was

manage that appropriately in school. So I became very social more social and spent way too much time focused on that and lost myself in the process. And I think I got I mean there was different ages and stages of that in that freshman year, especially but yeah, so I didn't do well at school. And did you ever talk to your parents your mom about that? No, we didn't. I did not have. I didn't have a really authentic relationship with my mom. I didn't have a really authentic relationship with my mom until probably the last 10 years or so. Okay, because I grew up very much. So it was the on my mom's side specifically. I was the first child the first grandchild. My mom had this my mom's a people pleaser. And there was an expectation placed on me to be and I got validation from that. So I learned that was like it was like a dopamine hit right like oh look at how Kendall she's she's so good at church or you know, oh, she's this or she's that and I didn't know how to manage that with her to like, disappoint her every if it didn't go with what she thought things should be it was disappointing. Right. And so and that was actually once it got to the point where you know, you couldn't get spanked or whatever anymore and not that I got spanked a lot, but you know, as you get older you get grounded and all that but it was like, you know, I not really that map. I am just so disappointed and that's so harsh. I'm just saying that like makes my heart go. Right. It triggers a little something. It does. Yeah. So you had this huge fear of disappointing her. And so you kept not knowing you were probably having some a little bit of a learning disability challenge social anxiety. You've come from a Alaska Beaver Creek background to Ashland

And so you kept not knowing you were probably having some a little bit of a learning disability challenge social anxiety. You've come from a Alaska Beaver Creek background to Ashland which at the time was a very hippie bohemian artsy community beautiful town one of the most magical towns in America, but feeling a little fish out of water probably had some imposter syndrome going on there. Yeah, and then not being able to talk to your family about it. Yeah. Well and back then if you remember like you talked maybe once a week you had a phone card, right? And then you start the payphone in the dorms, right? Yeah. And you know, you did your 20 minutes or whatever and it was like you're not going to get into it that way. No, you really not. And actually when I left Alaska my mom and I were very barely speaking that last summer before I came to school my mom still came down here with my brother and I lived up there and worked at the big top diner. Yeah, actually it was a it was a car hop. Oh, it was amazing. I made so much money. Like on roller skates? Not on roller skates. Okay, but you would go up to the car with the tray. That is so cool. So much fun. My best friend in high school her uncle and aunt owned it and so it was just like it was like the cool thing to do too, right? Very cool. I did that all summer and but I had a house to myself because my dad was actually gone that summer too for some reason working elsewhere instead of in Alaska and I had a great summer and that money I made didn't no one told me that the money I was making was supposed to go with me. Oh, you weren't aware that that was to go for college like towards spending money in college. Yeah, and so yeah, so we had a huge blow up and that ties

money I was making was supposed to go with me. Oh, you weren't aware that that was to go for college like towards spending money in college. Yeah, and so yeah, so we had a huge blow up and that ties back to communication, right? Oh, 100%. Yeah. And then my brother was in a pretty significant four wheeling accident right before I left like days before I left. Wow to have surgery and was in a wheelchair for a little bit and stuff. And so she was also in right and and I was getting and she put me on a plane with two suitcases and I went to through you know flew to Medford. My aunt uncle picked me up my aunt novella. Yeah, me up and she helped me move into my dorm room. I had to I think you. Brian knows for that point because we were in the same dorm but yes, I was all with my two suitcases. We went to Woolworth to get like a new comforter. Where was there a war in Medford? Oh, I didn't know that. Yes. I know right and you know to get my two spoons and two forks to have little something right, you know, whatever anyway, so my aunt uncle helped me. Okay. So your parents weren't there to set up your room and all that and I didn't expect them to be because my mom worked and that was the priority. She wouldn't have been able to take you know, I watched this whole event now go on and even the event I had with my own daughter taking her to college and it was like a parade. Oh, it's something. Yeah. Yeah, I've seen some stuff on social that's even like oh, yeah, that wasn't my experience even with Amelia, but it's still it's like oh, yeah, it was the whole thing. It was two cars. It was like my mom had to count. I mean it was a whole thing, but so yeah, it was a much different but it right there was no expectation.

yeah, it was the whole thing. It was two cars. It was like my mom had to count. I mean it was a whole thing, but so yeah, it was a much different but it right there was no expectation. I actually don't remember a lot of people having a lot of that noise though there. I mean you flew in like I don't know his parents. We flew in I had nothing because I flew in from New Jersey. Yeah, went to Medford. We went to the mall the Rogue Valley ballers. Yeah. Yeah. I think we went to like JC Penney's and bought my comforter and sheets and yeah, all that stuff. Yeah, I mean you brought your suitcase. I had my dead tapes and pretty much. Yeah, the dead that are hanging above your head right now. I think exactly. Okay, so you're so you're in the dorms. You're focusing a little more on social life. Yeah, and how'd that freshman year go? I mean it excuse me. It went okay. I didn't great get great. I didn't fail out. I didn't wasn't like on academic suspension or anything, but I was not it wasn't super successful. And but I had I developed really great friendships at the time. I mean it it's interesting though. I haven't kept very many of them, but but it was you know, it was it was the next phase of life. I was just paying for it through student loans, right? Right. It's like so I am. Yeah, so that I mean school wise. It was just not not great. And I also thought I was going to be a teacher like my mom. And what I realized I think which I wasn't mature enough to understand or voice was that wasn't what I wanted to do. Right? Like it was just kind of almost an expectation, but not that she told me that but just that well, yeah, that's what you do. That's what girls do. Right, right, which is funny because not that I would have

expectation, but not that she told me that but just that well, yeah, that's what you do. That's what girls do. Right, right, which is funny because not that I would have imagined I'm doing the line of work. I'm doing now, but it's more office related that type of thing. I used to play office as a kid. Right. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, like I had you know, I would get like back when they had carbon copy things, you know, like proceeding, you know, I had like a pretend phone and I was like, you know, back then I was playing secretary, right? Because you know, you didn't think in the 70s like who knew that you could run your own business or whatever, but and being charged. Yeah. Yeah, but although I did have that example, my aunt was that way, but um, anyway, so yeah, it's it and I should have just changed my major, right? Maybe I would have been interested in school, right? Right. Because you were what was the major geared towards education at the time. Yeah, and I mean obviously it was freshman year. Yeah, a lot of English and all that which was fine. I excelled at it, but I also didn't know to ask for help. So like like go to my my advisor and have a conversation or like I went through a couple different periods where now I can look back and I know I was greatly depressed because I literally didn't leave my room for two weeks other than to but food. Yeah, that's where you got food. We used to call it was like cafeteria. I know. Yeah, a fun dorm though. That's part of a challenge. We don't do our own party. They did you guys had a fun dorm. I was in the one down the hill that was more prim and proper, which is really funny because I wanted to be in those because they were the newer dorms. They were I mean, the arms we were in

I was in the one down the hill that was more prim and proper, which is really funny because I wanted to be in those because they were the newer dorms. They were I mean, the arms we were in were like the ones from a million a year and they're still there. I don't even think they had air condition. I don't even think they still do. I don't know if you need it per se in Oregon. Unless you're there in the summer you do. Yeah, but no our dorms. I have to tell it they were nice guys. Yeah, they were nice. They were very nice and I made sure I got in those. But we did have butt food a lobby away. We did but I think I'm glad it wasn't right around the corner. Like I had to walk up that hill to get food. So that was good. You have food back. We didn't know but food was our food. I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure somebody's like we're not walking up there. They have well, they have more dorms down that way now too. Oh my goodness. They're built like it's beautiful. I'm sure but those old ones are still there. That's amazing. But yeah, I know we even knew and I didn't really know you guys at all freshman year, but we knew of your dorm and knew that you guys it was fun there. Oh, yeah, we parted. Yeah, we had a good time. We must have really cool RAs because I mean Dan and then some other dude. I can't remember. Yeah, there was two guys, right? Yeah, that's why because the guys don't care. That's the girl RAs that are like really on it. But yeah, okay. So then did you where did you go for that summer? Did you stay in Ashland? No, so I am excuse me. I so spring term. I was in a class. Met a boy and but I went back. So my parents of course came back from to Alaska. They were in Oregon City. They were at my grandmother's house.

I so spring term. I was in a class. Met a boy and but I went back. So my parents of course came back from to Alaska. They were in Oregon City. They were at my grandmother's house. So I went back there because I didn't have a job. I wasn't working to Oregon City, Oregon. Well Beaver Creek actually were they living in Beaver Creek? No, okay. They were just there for the summer. My mom was there for the summers. Okay, I went and I got a job at JCPenney selling the fake jewelry, right and wearing pantyhose. Oh, yes, which by that point I had transitioned pretty significantly into Ashland and I was full-on Birkenstocks, you know, no make up all the things and I'm working at JCPenney's putting on pantyhose. Yeah, but I needed a job. So it was either that or working at the at a restaurant that didn't make sense. So anyways, but with because of this boyfriend who stayed there, I would basically not every weekend, but I would, you know Thursday night Friday night, whatever get in my car from work at 9 o'clock and drive to Ashland and then I'd stay the weekend there and I'd drive home and so and that if I remember correctly, I think I had that down to four and a half hours. Oh, yeah, and somewhere on there you could do a little better and I knew where every couple like to sit. There was a couple rest areas where they'd hang out right before that I when I drive that very rarely now, but I still like okay, we can watch it because that's where and because I did I got a couple tickets. Yeah, that because I had a little drive them. I had a little Ford Escort. Okay. Oh, yeah, it was great. It was a little car got milk on the license plate thing, but such a generational thing. My dad traded a tractor for it. Well, there you go. There you go.

Okay. Oh, yeah, it was great. It was a little car got milk on the license plate thing, but such a generational thing. My dad traded a tractor for it. Well, there you go. There you go. Farmgirl in her four desk or so you're smoking away smoking your cigarettes. So it's got milk. Yes. So you're working at pennies during the week going down to Ashton on the weekends and then did you continue school though for sophomore year like you picked classes. So yeah, so if I recall correctly, I think I made it a full one or two. I honestly don't remember. I've made it a full two terms after so I know I made it fall because we were on trimesters, right? So I made it. I think I made it fall term. Now is this when we moved in together? Yeah, that would have been so we found our apartment. Yeah, we met because I was dating a guy who was friends with your boyfriend and I think became roommates and they became roommates and we needed a ride from Portland to Ashland and your was it the guy was I was dating or Mike no the guy you are dating had the truck that has like back then they had like a cover can it be can it be cover and we laid in the back because you couldn't sit up. I couldn't sit up. I think that about that now if you made me lay in the back of a covered truck for four and a half hours, I would lose my mind. I wouldn't have done it but we talked the entire time the entire way had never met each other. Yeah, literally like Mike and I show up at the parking lot at the shopping center little Oregon City shopping center and like get in the I mean, I don't remember how we got there. Honestly, I think my mom probably dropped me off. Yeah, and ironically your mom was living in Oregon City. Yes at that time weirdly. That was a weird. Yes.

I don't remember how we got there. Honestly, I think my mom probably dropped me off. Yeah, and ironically your mom was living in Oregon City. Yes at that time weirdly. That was a weird. Yes. But anyways, yeah, we talked and literally I don't know if we really decided that at that moment, but I think it was like, okay cool. You want a roommate? Yeah. Yeah, like it was one of those moments in life where you look for a fact this friend is going to be your friend like you're this is going to be a best friend. It was like this is a person. This is gonna be one of my people and so from the start of leaving Portland till we got to Ashland by the time we got to Ashland, I knew okay. This is gonna be one of my best friends and then yeah, we decided to live together and that was a fun year. We had apartment and we had a crappy couch that we paid for which I don't know why because we got it from these guys and they had thrown up on it. Yeah, and I'm across the street in that house. Right. Where did you guys live? How do you describe it? It's past big owls, right? Yeah past big owls. It was like there was a outside of Ashland. Yeah, there was a market up there and then you turned and you started up the hill. So it was on it was the house you guys got kicked out of no that house, but it was that same road that but it just was at the bottom of it, but it was just an apartment complex. Somebody at some point lived across the street from us like Grant and remember they had that house. Carl Carl they eventually lived across the street from us, but wait was big out wasn't big owls down by the campus. Are you thinking of the breadboard? No, well, there was two big owls at one point, but they closed the one by the campus. There was one on the other end of town.

big owls down by the campus. Are you thinking of the breadboard? No, well, there was two big owls at one point, but they closed the one by the campus. There was one on the other end of town. Okay. Yeah, so we live there and we sat on that couch and talked pretty much that whole year. I mean, you know on that gross disgusting like I would burn it now couch. I mean, it was so I have well, I've sent you that one picture. Yeah, look at that now and I'm just like I know I mean, I'm sure I slept on that couch at point. Oh for sure. For sure. I think the guys didn't even want to take money and I think I insisted and they're like you guys are weird. Yeah, so okay, but so okay, so we live together sophomore year. Yeah, you were definitely in school the first semester for sure. The first I might have dropped out maybe in the middle of of winter or just stop going. Let's be clear, right? But I was working so I think at that point, I don't think I was working at Big Owls. But you but I was working but I had a couple jobs. I did. I know you were not going to school though. I don't know honestly because I lived so the problem, you know, I look back on things now, but I lived a very I just wouldn't have talked about it. It wouldn't I wouldn't I don't think I would have lied about it to you or whatever, but I just don't think I talked about it. So I wasn't need to know basis. Yeah, and I wasn't like my parents didn't know at the time. No, I remember that can even once I realized I remember your parents didn't yeah, and and it's a little fuzzy even now and then it's okay. Yeah, because okay, so so because I think they thought you were still going to school that at least that semester, right? Yeah, I was it's it's so hard for me to realize that that

Yeah, because okay, so so because I think they thought you were still going to school that at least that semester, right? Yeah, I was it's it's so hard for me to realize that that lived a lot of my life lying in a way not in a way lying or lying by omission, right? Because I was so terrified of disappointing them or other people that instead of just being who I was and being like okay, this is who I am. I didn't you know what I mean? Like and that ate me up in different ways, right? Right because and it wasn't like I created big elaborate things and it was like I was manufacturing. It was just that by not telling the whole thing or by skirting that you know, then I didn't have to disappoint anybody. Did you did you ever have an event where that kind of led you to that or is that just something evolved and one day you realize that now that you're an adult that I wasn't always honest or that I the realization of all that you mean more I guess by a shitty question, but the question I'm trying to ask is do you have an idea of why you got to the point where you thought you might be letting down your mom was there something that happened where she was like, oh Kendall, you shouldn't be doing that. I mean that was a culmination of expectations. Yeah from from from times before I could even remember probably there was just condition stuff condition stuff. I think that's that's a great way to put it and then and then you know, there's comments made in high school or whatever you're disappointing and my mom had a real thing about you know in our little tiny town. There's a status thing like my mom never drink a beer in that town when we go have pizza. My mom loves a beer with pizza. Yeah, but she wouldn't do it in that town because you'd

There's a status thing like my mom never drink a beer in that town when we go have pizza. My mom loves a beer with pizza. Yeah, but she wouldn't do it in that town because you'd get a reputation that you know, oh, did you see an a beer a single beer? Yeah, and you had to you know, she would never go buy a beer because you had to go to the liquor store and to do it there and you know, just she was very she was very conditioned on appearances and she conditioned that into me. My brother was exactly the opposite. He didn't give enough and did what he wanted and said, you know, he's the young guy. Yeah. Yeah, and I resented the hell out of that. Sure. Yeah resented the hell out of it because I always felt like I was towing the line or lying about it and he was just like, you know, and so whatever you wanted. So he rebelled and you were compliant. Yeah, and your way of feeling acceptance and love from your mom was by conforming to what you thought she wanted at all times and then probably as you realize you're not that person and that you're learning about yourself. You were too scared to talk to her about who you are. Yeah, I didn't know how to reconcile the pieces of me like, you know, when you go away so far away from your parents and all that and you go to such a unique school, you know, in a unique experience and like, you know, I had never even heard of the Grateful Dead before I showed up there. And then, you know, slowly not everyone gets into it, right? But you know, I did and it's you know, it's a it's a culture along with the music and and it's a spiritual thing and all those and and that whole thing was very foreign to me, but I really took to it and it was really a part of me and I didn't know how to

with the music and and it's a spiritual thing and all those and and that whole thing was very foreign to me, but I really took to it and it was really a part of me and I didn't know how to share that with people as a part of me without it because it was so foreign to my vanilla white family and far, you know, all I mean, it was just it was almost almost comical when I would show I mean the first time I went back to Alaska to visit the one time and I went back. I think I had braids in my hair like with like cloth woven into him, you know, I remember and I mean, they thought I was a freak. Yeah, and I mean, I was not even close to what was an actual. Yeah, what the real experience was. I mean, and I wasn't so and I never was hardcore, but anyways, it was just it was just it never dawned on me to figure out how to authentically have those conversations, right? You were just going going going. Yeah, and so you're not going to school. You're working. Are you still being you're still being social? Cuz you were we you were still hanging out with all of us and making new friends and hanging out. Did you because you weren't going to school was did you ramp up the partying during that time? So I think so. I mean, I kind of ramped up the partying even in the dorms because at some point I ended up with my own room because my original roommate moved out or went back home and I get the time come in to my parents or my mom, you know, hey, I keep my own room. It'll do better for school. And what that meant was another friend who did not go to school and worked usually the, you know, Friday Saturdays or whatever, then we started partying like different days and then she crashed in my room because out of space she didn't have to go home. And so just and those

the, you know, Friday Saturdays or whatever, then we started partying like different days and then she crashed in my room because out of space she didn't have to go home. And so just and those things become like real like oh, are we doing Tuesday? Are we doing you know what I mean? It's like yeah, it creeps up on you and for me personally alcohol eased a lot of the anxiety, right? The social stuff where I felt like I mean, I still feel like this that like people won't remember my name. They won't remember who I am. I'm not identifiable enough that people would know who I am. I have that problem at work and I know and what's interesting and I'm proven wrong often and I still feel that way. That's so interesting. And I've been in my company for 10 years. I still feel that way. You feel that way or that's the reality. I feel that way. Interesting. And you felt that way in school or in Ashland? Yeah, oh, 100%. Oh, 100%. I guarantee you if you ask anybody from those days, you remember Kendall, they'd be like, yeah, I remember Kendall. Guaranteed, no doubt. You know, there's people that I think would remember me, you know, there's a core group, of course, like the Guam House folks. Yeah, but there's like some peripheral of those that, you know, I have memories of and the interesting thing is though as I don't like retain names and those kind of things and I don't know. I haven't done a good job of that. I mean, I think it's just my brain takes in weird information and then it can't store all the things and but then I can remember if somebody else talks about it. Yeah, but that could be part of that ADHD. Yeah, you know, which again could have been one of the reasons why school was so frustrating at that time and like now as

Yeah, but that could be part of that ADHD. Yeah, you know, which again could have been one of the reasons why school was so frustrating at that time and like now as an older adult and certainly menopausal and all the things which I've been in for a while because of surgeries and stuff, but like my immediate recall is awful. And so it always makes you nervous like on a call or something for work, you know, and it's like, okay, I got to make these scribble in my handwriting is atrocious. So let's even worse, but but then it's like an hour or two hours later. All of a sudden, I'm going to do that thing, right? Like I'll get off a call and know I need to do something and then it doesn't come to me for two hours. Right, right. It stresses me out and it's something I'm going to try to kind of look into a little bit more because I had to figure out some better coping skills on it. Yeah, it makes me nervous. The older I get I you know, it makes me nervous. I'm going to lose that two hours. Right, right, right, right. Come for it. So that yeah, or the middle of the night, which I, you know, also have that where you're like, okay, well, I'm going to get on the computer because I won't go back to sleep if I don't right. Right. So so anyway, sorry. No, no, no. Did you find that you since you were using alcohol with social anxiety? Did it become an issue? It it might have you know, I was never like drinking to go to work or any it was never that I was very much of a social drinker and still am like I don't sit and have a glass of wine at home. I don't have a you know, cocktail at home or anything. That's just not my my vibe. I would say it was an issue because the longer I stayed in action. So so we live together sophomore year essentially and then

cocktail at home or anything. That's just not my my vibe. I would say it was an issue because the longer I stayed in action. So so we live together sophomore year essentially and then following that I kind of I mean, I moved so many times. Well, we lived in that big house together the next year. Yeah, but only for a period of time only for a period of time and you weren't in school then you were working. I was working the rest of us. There was a bunch of us that live there then we got kicked out. Yeah. I think you had that you in winter. So I think had a real sweet place on the corner on the corner right up from the library. So I had this little hallowroom in the back which I love you know, I love yes. Love my little cozy spot little cozy cave bed on the floor kind of thing but um, yeah, but that was a great house still is a great house. Yeah, it's an actual family home now, but um, but before that before we ended up, I mean, I just bounced around I think I lived at Winters's mom's house for a little bit. I you know, there was some till we got settled. So your life and Ashton at that point most of your friends that you had made when you arrived are still going to school and your life is kind of pivoting to spending more time with people who work work or don't go to school and then partying with them because I because you kind of drifted a little bit in our group group at that time because the what and that was that was me right because I was self-conscious about the fact that I mean that I wasn't didn't have that commonality anymore, right? Not that we all sat around and talked about school. I'm right, but just that piece of it and then I also what what I've done for a very long time and I don't know if it was like prior to high

Not that we all sat around and talked about school. I'm right, but just that piece of it and then I also what what I've done for a very long time and I don't know if it was like prior to high school, but I know in high school, it started. I was very much one of the person's the worst like okay, I've got my people my friends or whatever, but I'm going to take care of you, right? I'm going to make sure you're okay. You're everybody needed me and I didn't I mean I got things in return, but I didn't get a lot of it in return. And so that was always at the detriment of my emotional well-being, but I had no idea. Right no idea about that. And so in that transferred into college, right? And so like a freshman dorms, I think there was a gal that I was like that with you know, early on and then I was like that with you. It was not to to my detriment, but it was just like I was very involved in your life. And I mean which was our life right in the sense of like all of our people. So that was easy. Yes, but then as I got other people than I changed the focus right and that was the pivot because when Tristan became your interest in dating at that point really became a focus and and it wasn't because they were like, you know to the college kids or anything like that. It was just it was a different experience. We didn't have the same, you know, you guys were studying. You were yeah, yeah, yeah, so we said you it's not more than others, but no, and so it was easy just to kind of pivot from that but then still bounce in and out, right? And yeah, I mean there was a divide there a little bit which I regret greatly and have but I think you were going through your own processing too because you were kind of living this covert life still where

divide there a little bit which I regret greatly and have but I think you were going through your own processing too because you were kind of living this covert life still where your folks thought you were going to college. Yeah, I think by that time like by the time like we moved up to that one house that we got kicked out of I don't think I was fibbing on the college college thing at that point. I think they knew I was only working out. I hope so. I honestly don't remember. Yeah, yeah, that's kind of like right at this point. The blur the edges of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but you know, I was living to you know, it was a big old gal. Yeah, I keep talking about big owls shout out to big owls. I was a big gal gal. You know, we pulled our tips. We'd go, you know, get in the car and go to Dead shows in California and go drive around and I mean, you know, live in a different kind of bohemian lifestyle at the time. Yeah, I mean you were having a great time. It was a great life having a great time. It was a lot of fun. It was not a lot of substance, right? So what made you make a change? So honestly circumstances because Winters decided she was going to go to school and she was going to go to California to do it. So Winters was going to go to school in California. Yeah, she was going to go to school in California and I was going to go with her because it was like basically the band was breaking up, right? Yeah. And so I was going to do that like put in the notice at work all those, you know, we had a big going away party out at Kurt's. We burnt our big owls shirts. I've got really cool pictures of that actually. Mason was there and literally, I think I had a panic attack not physically, but just like realize I can't move to California.

I've got really cool pictures of that actually. Mason was there and literally, I think I had a panic attack not physically, but just like realize I can't move to California. No, no, I can't do that. And at that point my mom and dad had actually moved back down from Alaska had repurchased the house that my dad had built us before we moved up to Alaska. That is really cool. Yeah, but he was able to get that house. What it was weird though because like literally, I mean there'd been we'll say eight ten years in between that time. Yeah, everything was exactly the same. Wow. The wallpaper my mom had used in the seven or the 80, you know, anyway, yeah, very weird. But yeah, and so my dad was there but my mom had moved back to Alaska. So she'd been there for they'd been there a year. Yeah, and my mom realized that she couldn't give up her retirement prospects from Alaska. And so she went back up to Alaska. My dad was still in the house and my brother was there because he had he was a junior when she moved down, which right. A whole nother thing. Yeah, he had just when he graduated in 92, he moved out the same day and moved in with his girlfriend. So my dad's in this house and they're trying to sell it. And so at that point, it was like, okay, I could move back up there and live, you know, up there until they sell this house. But for whatever reason, I didn't do that right away and I don't know why because I actually ended up living with a friend for like a I stayed at Big Isles for like a couple months and then stayed in town. I don't really know why that kind of feels like a lost period. Honestly, when I think back on it, I don't remember much of it. Yeah. Um, but anyway, so I moved that's that's how I got from Ashland then back up to the

that kind of feels like a lost period. Honestly, when I think back on it, I don't remember much of it. Yeah. Um, but anyway, so I moved that's that's how I got from Ashland then back up to the Oregon City, Beaver Creek area. Okay, and then I've never left until recently. I'd never left kind of that core area. I lived in other Milwaukee and Gladstone that kind of thing, but I've been in that same little what year would you say that was around like 93 93? I think 90 when did you graduate 93? Yeah, so I was up there in 93. 93. Yeah, because I wasn't like when you guys graduated, you know, I had to come down. I'd come down to visit and you come up sometimes. Yeah, and stuff. So yeah, that was 93. So then you started working. Started working at Emporium Emporium. I forgot about Emporium. Yeah, that's right. You work at Emporium. Shrapnel Emporium did not have to wear pantyhose to that job. That's right. Yeah, I was in the bonus. I was in the junior section. Well, hello, but then I eventually became part of the office. Oh boy. I know. Moving up and moving up. But yeah, I did that and lived with lived in the house that they were trying to sell. And then I think I live there maybe six five months like that like maybe fall to February ish and they sold the house. And so because it was a middle school, my mom couldn't come down pack up the stuff and you know, take it up. So they basically came down packed up the stuff moved it into apartment in Gladstone and I lived in the apartment rent free with all the stuff with my mom stuff. My mom decorated it. Okay. I love Barbara. Yeah, she decorated. I mean it was fully her house and I just lived in the spare bedroom. Oh, that's so fun and free. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So then you hummed

Okay. I love Barbara. Yeah, she decorated. I mean it was fully her house and I just lived in the spare bedroom. Oh, that's so fun and free. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So then you hummed along and met some friends. Yeah, and and then actually met my well dated a friend of my brothers, which you know, wasn't really anything. And then ended up meeting my now ex-husband. Right. And so that would have been. If we were together when you graduated or not, I don't think so. No, but shortly after so by 94 ish probably and there and how did you meet him? I met him at that other ex-boyfriend's house. They were all friends from high school and I was still friends with with the guy. I mean, I wasn't anything serious, right? And we were hanging out and he came over one night and that was it quite honestly. So from the time you met till when like how much time span was there between the time you met and when you got married? Almost four years. Okay. Yeah, because if we met around maybe we'll say maybe we met like fall of 93. We got married December of 97. Okay, but we were off off and on and you know, but we we partied. That's what we did together. So would you say that we've done some episodes about you know, before you get married talk about your expectations in a relationship expectations in a marriage what you how you see roles Brian. I got married young at 23, but even then we kind of touched on that. Yeah, would you say that you guys kind of had those conversations in preparation for getting married? Absolutely not. We we I mean I look back on it now and it's just it's I feel like I didn't even have those conversations with you. Like what do you see you're you know, how do you think you'll be married like before Brian or anything right?

it now and it's just it's I feel like I didn't even have those conversations with you. Like what do you see you're you know, how do you think you'll be married like before Brian or anything right? It's just like it didn't dawn on me to have a conversation about it, right? It was like that was the next step. Right and I was conditioned for the next step. Right. But what I yeah, we didn't we didn't have a lot of conversations deep meaningful. You know history conversations or it was all it was unfortunately just very surface and and then it was focused on drinking a lot like, you know weekend drinking that kind of thing. But you know, we had a core group of friends that were kind of all was like multiple couples that like we're all friends and then there was these extraneous guys that they all went to high school with it was very guy centric. To those guys and there was the three girls and yeah, it was very I mean, I would tell you was fun at the time because it was but there was again not any substance. Right. So then do you do you think you married him because you thought okay, I'm supposed to get married now. And so and this is somebody I've been with off and on for four years and and I fought for it and you fought for him. Right. Yeah, like that's the other thing is, you know, I read a lot as a as a young person and then I mean continually until the last few years actually and you know, it was all trivial stuff and it read educational like right self-help or anything but it was you know, every relationship was this like push pull and then everything worked out in the end. Right. And I also think that I thought I'd fix him. Right, right. So, you know, he won't talk about his story, but right, you know, he had he had

everything worked out in the end. Right. And I also think that I thought I'd fix him. Right, right. So, you know, he won't talk about his story, but right, you know, he had he had rough growing up and all that and I really thought that it would be kind of like I mean what I was modeled my mom wore the pants. Right. My dad did a lot of hard labor work and always was hustling and stuff. He didn't you know farming and all that like one year you make great money the next year you tomorrow you've lost it right and my mom was stability. And so I really thought that was what marriage was and and not to wear the pants like to be the boss boss, but just to be the control one. Yeah, and the and some of the control as far as like this is how we're going to raise kids. This is how but we didn't have those conversations. So you were mirror marrying your parents marriage, but with not communicating about any of that with each other because I don't think mom or my mom or and I don't think my mom and dad communicated about any of that. Right. So probably in your mind, you probably didn't even think there to be communication because it worked with your parents. So it must just happen. So if we get married because you we got married things will just happen. Yeah, it's 100% communication doesn't really have anything to do with it. It's just it just happens naturally. Yeah, not realizing, you know, either if you're really going to have this authentic United Front, you have to have communication or you just figure out how to function and be in that marriage and accept certain things. Right. Yeah, and I really yeah, I really thought that okay, once we do this, this will settle down or once we do that, that'll settle

and be in that marriage and accept certain things. Right. Yeah, and I really yeah, I really thought that okay, once we do this, this will settle down or once we do that, that'll settle down and and the reality is of that was it's it it would and wouldn't write it would ebb and flow and and then it, you know, eventually didn't but and it did that push pull. Yeah, that you that you thought that's normal. Yeah, and and I was talking about this with somebody else recently and basically she's like, you know, that's a dopamine fix, right? She's like you were trained and that's that validation thing even for a child, right? It's validation. It's like a dopamine fix and you know, I smoked for years. I there's other things right like I didn't do anything too crazy, but you know, there's some you know, alcohol could be a dopamine fix. Yes, because you know, I am a fun drunk. Yes, you are. I'm here to say she's a great time and tell him and tell him just that until I'm done and it's not that I'm angry, but I'm just yeah, I'm going to bed now. Yes. Um, but yeah, it's um, because it's it's the happy things, right? It's the pleasure piece of it and that's definitely and that's why when I left Ashland the decision to leave Ashland to go to to either California the other was like I knew enough at that moment that I had to leave Ashland. I could not stay there. Yeah, because had I stayed I would have probably become an alcoholic because I could go to the bar by myself in Ashland because it was that bubble. I mean, I don't know that you can do that now. I don't know. Yeah, but it's you know, I could go out there. It was it was relatively safe at the time. You know, we wandered the streets just totally safe. Lee, you know in the middle of the night.

Yeah, but it's you know, I could go out there. It was it was relatively safe at the time. You know, we wandered the streets just totally safe. Lee, you know in the middle of the night. And I knew enough at that time that I needed to get out and Ashland had started to change a little bit too. Yeah, right before you guys kind of graduated. It got a little we had to get out too, though. Yeah, I got a little out of it. Yeah. That's I think that's that's a really good way to put it. I also think it got a little rougher around the edges in some ways or maybe it just the veil comes off the Ashland lighting brightens. Yeah. I mean, I think that a lot of Californians were moving in and they were changing the culture of it. I personally think that we got the best years of action and then it changed and I think for any magical fairy tale college town because they're scattered all throughout America. I think it serves a purpose, but I think it's important for the people that go to college there to leave because or it's such your growth. I think it serves a purpose for those kids going in and it's a precious time. Yeah. Yeah, but then I think you need to leave or else it can take a really bad turn. I'm curious. Did you get pressured off from your parents? I'm guessing not but did you have any pressure to get married? No, or did they try to talk you out of it or or they knew she won the whole thing. So they did not try to talk me out of it. I always. I always thought that they didn't really approve. I don't think they ever did, but they didn't say it, but there was like a judgment level that I always kind of felt from the get from the jump, which was which was real hard for me and but it didn't stop me.

didn't say it, but there was like a judgment level that I always kind of felt from the get from the jump, which was which was real hard for me and but it didn't stop me. I think I just thought dug in deeper. I I probably did and it's not because they you know, it was just a vibe you got and in a way, maybe you were rebelling a little bit. I think yeah, I mean kind of yelling or just I know my own side. It's fine. You know, yeah. Yeah, I but no they never said outright. Yeah, and my dad would never have probably said any of it. My dad and I didn't have we didn't we didn't chat like that. You know, if you rode in the truck with him, you know, he picked me up from Ashland to drive me up and I think you know, we spoke very peripherally and then we listened to country music. So right, but we were together and and I I think I've told you this separately, but you know, my family was not a demonstrative family, right and and a lot of families aren't but we grew up. We didn't say I love you even with my grandma who's like wasn't the most important. We didn't say I love you, but there was no doubt that that wasn't the case, right, but it just so to talk about emotional things or something was just foreign. So we form or to ask for guidance, right? It just sounds like there was you didn't grow up with communication and things were just very surface. Yeah. So when it came to that point in your life, it probably would have been natural for them to go along with whatever you were doing without having a conversation and I think my mom's stance was if she thought it it would dig in deeper and it would create a rift and then that would create more problems. Right. And so which I see your point. Yeah, yeah, being a parent myself.

stance was if she thought it it would dig in deeper and it would create a rift and then that would create more problems. Right. And so which I see your point. Yeah, yeah, being a parent myself. I totally can understand and relate to that knowing me like she knew me at that time. I think she certainly had a reason to think it right. It's all it's kind of fascinating because they think there's two things if you tie it back to our whole podcast concept, but that's that lack of communication is quintessential Gen X stuff with your mom and dad and lack of communication. And then in some ways you almost married a similar person that your mom did. Yep. And it's interesting with different baggage totally great way to put it. Yeah, but but very similar in that way and and trying to get to the meat of anything later on once I realized there was something else missing, you know, or needing more than it was like that whole concept of like wait a minute. What do you mean you need XYZ because that's not what you needed, you know, a week ago or whatever. Right, right. And then it was almost like yeah, so it it and then I didn't even really have the right words to articulate articulate it anyway. And then at some point, you don't trust somebody. So you're not going to and you just it it creates a whole bunch of noise. So how would you sum up your marriage? Um, there's a lot of sarcastic things. I'd like to say you can say whatever you want because we can always edit stuff out if necessary. I'm sarcastic about mine too. I mean you can go as deep into this as you want, but to give an idea of what you went through for people who maybe have gone through similar things. I um, this this would be a surprise for a lot of people that

you want, but to give an idea of what you went through for people who maybe have gone through similar things. I um, this this would be a surprise for a lot of people that know me now even but I would tell you I was emotionally abused through a lot of it. If not most of it. There would be great. Years of of positive, you know fine and fine. Now I wouldn't accept the fine then I wouldn't accept now. But it was fine. I got to a fantastic children out of it who are amazing and loves of my life. But I didn't yeah, I didn't serve myself out of it at all. And I spent too many years not realizing that and or disassociated from the whole thing. It's it which is this is a journey that I'm starting. I think this kind of leads back to the pod to you, right, but I'm calling this the year of me and my intentions, right? I don't do like New Year's resolutions and all that kind of stuff. But for the first time in my life, I wrote down things this year and I just put them on the fridge and it's not like a checklist like do them all but it's like these are the things that I would like to get out of it. And it's everything from you know, I want to start eating better. I want to start, you know, moving my body. It's it's not even about losing weight, you know, all the things to like, okay, I need to unpack some stuff. It isn't just the marriage, but it's the stuff before that too, which all cumulates into everything and up until this point, I've had all these other focuses and rightfully so in my opinion, I wouldn't change the last 10 years of my life. I wouldn't change for the thing because I had to focus on make sure they were okay and I did and they are and they've they've done their own work and they are amazing children and they will become

I wouldn't change for the thing because I had to focus on make sure they were okay and I did and they are and they've they've done their own work and they are amazing children and they will become even more amazing adults. I mean, they're adults now both of them, but my baby boy is an adult, but it's this is about it's time to reflect on me and I have the energy now to do it. Right. I don't you know, I'm the only thing that's different in my energy now is I'm kind of I'm what I call and this isn't my term. I've heard this elsewhere, but the same with generation. So I've got a mom, you know, that I'm very involved with. She's totally independent. She's you know, in a great community and all the things, but I'm very involved with her life and she with mine. And we have the most authentic relationship we've ever had, but she lived through the last 10 years with me. Right. Can I pull this forward? Yeah. Um, she so when my marriage dissolved finally or when I dissolved my marriage finally, my mom actually ended up she had retired from teaching and in sisters organ and moved over to Oregon City into her own place and everything. And she effectively helped me. She was a co-parent to me. She really helped with kids just, you know, faring people about picking up kids from school, whatever. So I could work and so she's so so that's a real good source, but I do have a lot of you know, I'm focused on her a lot too, but I have time to be focused on me. So this is the first time you feel like you've had time for yourself. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Sorry. I'd cut you off. But yeah, you're reclaiming your energy. Yes. What's interesting is I knew I deserved it all along, but for the first time I believe it. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah.

Sorry. I'd cut you off. But yeah, you're reclaiming your energy. Yes. What's interesting is I knew I deserved it all along, but for the first time I believe it. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. And I have the energy. Thankfully, I have the financial ability to do so, you know, which is I mean backing up to be honest, the reason one of the reasons I was able to finally one of the many reasons there was lots of reasons that finally needed to end but is I was finally in a financial position to leave and not need any support to do so. And so I could figure out what my exit was and make it all happen. So would you say that's a huge catalyst in this for women who are in an abusive marriage? The financial part is probably one of the main reasons they are stuck. Absolutely. And even if it's not abusive, even if they're just unhappy, right? Right, right, right. Even if it's just not the right fit and they live with a man who just doesn't communicate but there's nothing like they're not, you know, that yeah, it's absolutely it's unfortunate because I thought years prior to that, I mean, I've been planning to leave for years off and on, you know, we go through these lulls or whatever and the thing that always threw me was I didn't think I could do it. Ironically, looking back, I could have. And had I been open to what was going on or not even all of it, but just more so, my parents would have helped me in a heartbeat. Other people would have helped me in a heartbeat had they needed to. You know, could have should have would have. Well, I think there's a lot of women that are in situations like that and don't share with, is it shame? Is that the reason? 100% it's shame, which is I don't know why it's right because it doesn't

are in situations like that and don't share with, is it shame? Is that the reason? 100% it's shame, which is I don't know why it's right because it doesn't make sense now because these when you're in that situation, you're the victim. But the victim feels shame for being in that situation and has a problem asking for help because of that. Would you say that's an accurate statement? Yeah, and and there's this belief that I can do it myself and so or that I've got myself into this so I can fix it stubbornness in a way. Maybe I don't know. I maybe that's not the word, but it's determination. Yeah, like like something and that's why those lulz and that, you know, the the peaks in the valleys, right? Like when it when it piqued or like, okay, cool. We made it to this. Yay, we made it here. And then we'd have a good period of time. And there was there was unfortunately, he was very good at recognizing when he almost gone too far. And then he'd, you know, come back, right? And you back in. Yeah, and I and I would just I mean, and it wasn't like I don't mean it's like, oh, how's the sun you got wine and roses and da da da. No, it was just those subtle things that like I thought were okay, cool. We're in this partnership now, right? Like I look at some of the folks, you know, I have I have some really good group that works with me and they're all let's see, they're all in their 30s. So Millennials, Millennials. Yeah, and I you know, I hear I don't get in their big details, but the way they talk about their partners and and you know, the their family life and everything and I'm just like, holy crap. Wow, that is what partnership looks like. Yeah, that's what's like when you come home from work, somebody asked you how your day was and not just

and I'm just like, holy crap. Wow, that is what partnership looks like. Yeah, that's what's like when you come home from work, somebody asked you how your day was and not just that they asked you but they listen and they actually give a give a crap, right? Like I mean, I have other friends who you know, sure that but their partner knows who they work with and what they do and what that means and like, no, you don't need to know all the Harry details of what I do, but right you need to know I'm important at work and I'm validated at work and that should mean something because it's supported you for. Yes, in part, so right. Do you remember when you talked about how you didn't feel in general that you have an impact on people? They won't remember you. So do you think that came into play in your marriage where it was very easy for you to believe anything negative he told you about yourself? Well, that's really interesting. Wow. Probably I mean certainly negative conversations and you know, yes, not just about me, but my family and you know, how things should be or shouldn't be or whatever. But yeah, I mean probably so and also he was a person that everybody knew especially in our little town, right? Because he'd grown up there and never left. And you know, he was the guy when you went to the bar, everybody knew his name and he was the big personality and he was the fun guy and and it's like, oh, you're married to him and it's like, huh and you know, I'm not out every weekend like he is and all the things. So once we got married, we actually got pregnant right away. And so that really changed and and from his perspective, I think I wasn't focused on him anymore. My focus was the kids. Yeah, and that was probably beyond just other things.

pregnant right away. And so that really changed and and from his perspective, I think I wasn't focused on him anymore. My focus was the kids. Yeah, and that was probably beyond just other things. I think that was the death knoll for that, but maybe an invisible in a way. Yes. I mean, I had that already right. I had that that feeling but yeah, that was probably part of it. Right. Yeah. So what was the catalyst in getting out? Like you said it was probably your job, right? That you could actually financially get yourself out. I got a really good job that was with a company. I had no idea about that. I'm still with and have been there a company that supported growth in me and I mean my boss my boss created my job description that I got hired from and had no idea really what he needed and I came into it and I've written every job description since right and as I've promoted up right lead a team now and blah blah blah. But which is amazing. I didn't take a moment for that. That is amazing. I'm I'm proud of myself. Yes, it's very impactful. It's huge. It's very huge and I actually believe it. Right. This is the first I mean, I've always felt validated at work and important in my roles, but they were a little bit more administrative or you know, that type of thing and this is the first time and and certainly, you know, a company that supports that growth. You know creates loyalty. Absolutely. Absolutely. It sounds like we've been touching on the financial aspect, but it feels like you you have the you have the confidence. Yeah to leave based on some of the wins you got in your professional life and building up your self-esteem your confidence level. I think you got this. Yeah, I think all of that there was there was some stuff

of the wins you got in your professional life and building up your self-esteem your confidence level. I think you got this. Yeah, I think all of that there was there was some stuff that happened before that. I actually had had surgery and gotten really quite ill in almost died. Do you mind? Are you comfortable sharing what surgery? Yeah, so I had of 14 years ago. I think I had a full hysterectomy. So everything and so I've been on estrogen since then and I also had bladder sling surgery at the same time at the same time. What was it called? Bladder sling surgery. So it's like once women have babies, you get you know, the female bits the female bits and things. Yes. What why did you have the hysterectomy? Because I had endometriosis and so I was I was what I didn't know at the time was I was like completely overdosing also on ibuprofen and everything so like and it was because of that you build up a tolerant. I mean, it's like anything the tolerance and so then I was like Hans I would if I took ibuprofen because I had a headache because I get rebound headaches because I'm taking so much of it. I take five of the highest one. Right. And so it was like so that you know, there's a lot of things going on inside your body for that but they mean to end the material. So this was why I had the the thing that hysterectomy and unfortunately, I went home with a catheter and that weekend I developed sepsis basically and they took me to the hospital and an ambulance and I was an ICU for I think three days two days for sure maybe three then they transfer me into Portland at Portland Proff in off of 84 because my liver had started and my kidneys were shutting down and so I was in the dialysis unit, but I did not thankfully they rebounded

Portland at Portland Proff in off of 84 because my liver had started and my kidneys were shutting down and so I was in the dialysis unit, but I did not thankfully they rebounded I didn't need to let dialysis but they I was on some really crazy antibiotics, which is why I know I'm deaf in one ear. Interesting. Yeah, and so I was in that hospital for another five days I think went home and then I was my aunt says I was like I was an episode of house that old show which I never watched but I had I was home like two days and they ended up taking me back to the hospital and I basically had a little mini stroke. I had a little mini heart attack and I mean my body just like blew up inside. I mean in some weird way. So I was back in the ICU in Oregon City, I think for four days and then was on a bunch of stuff came home but recovered from that thankfully, but literally almost died twice, right? Which sounds very dramatic, but it's true and I do have to say I appreciate my husband because had he not so the first when they prescribed me the pain medicine, they overprescribed it and so he was following the regiment because I was kind of out of it. Yeah, and he actually like I was sleeping and he woke me. He tried to wake me up to give me the pain medicine and he couldn't wake me up. Okay, and so that was like if he had not tried I'd be gone because of the pain medicine and OD on the medicine. No because of the sepsis. Because the sepsis has already started, but which we didn't know, right? Which you could tell if you looked at the because I was on a catheter, you can tell when she saw that but so if he hadn't tried so the when I say the overprescribing the pain medicine he had he had elected because and actually this was smart of him.

a catheter, you can tell when she saw that but so if he hadn't tried so the when I say the overprescribing the pain medicine he had he had elected because and actually this was smart of him. He was like, okay, I'm going to dose this differently, but I'm going to prescribe it like you know, they just were giving me too much at one time and anyway, so he did save my life. So I will definitely trip that was during the opioid epidemic really. Yeah, the doctors were overprescribing. Yeah, 100% and yeah, my doctor might have might have contributed to some things. I don't know now and you know, who knows but but after something like that happens, you really start to go wait a minute. I'm here for something right like I'm not here to just sit in my room after I get home and feed the kids. And not like you know, my home our home life at that point was very much we came home, you know, my ex would be in the living room, you know, playing. I mean that was his domain and we weren't really invited to hang out and if you did you had to listen to him on the game in you know, that gets real old listening to Call of Duty and all that and and so the kids and I went to our rooms and we had a pretty small house and you know, that was it. And so that was the existence and the kids and I were real close still are but that's no way to live your life. You know, it's just it's it's just not an existence, but I was so disassociated for a long time that that was my existence. Right, you know, but so that was the wake-up call I think and I went to therapy for a while after that because I'm like this doesn't like there's got to be more to this right in my therapist was real good about leading me to a point and it was I stopped therapy because we got to the point where it

because I'm like this doesn't like there's got to be more to this right in my therapist was real good about leading me to a point and it was I stopped therapy because we got to the point where it was pretty obvious that I I really had a path. I had it. I had a decision tree. You're at a crossroads, right? Yeah, and I wasn't ready to make the crossroads yet and what made the crossroads and I was I was temporarily working in another company because I've been laid off it at a long time job. I was working for another company out in Beaverton. Yeah, quite the drive. But that's when I got the job where I met now and then it was like, okay, I'm being paid what I'm worth. I'm being told I'm worth it, you know, and I hadn't really even started moving up yet. But those things just start to add up and then you're like, okay, I can make this next plan, right? And then things were escalating at home too. And that was real apparent. Sorry, there's a bug. Yeah, things were escalating at home and it was real clear that they had never been physical and you know, I don't know for sure that they would have become but it just it didn't look good for either of us, you know, and the tools I had before to de-escalate things weren't working anymore. And the effect this was having on the kids, you know, the shame that I have is that it took me so long to think about that in the way that it made me do something because all along they were being affected the same way. They had their own issues with him that I was always like playing middle ground, right, to keep them protected, you know, from the verbal or whatever that worked ish, you know, the more we talk, the more kids and I talk about it now, right, you know, like, okay, that that wasn't doing

know, from the verbal or whatever that worked ish, you know, the more we talk, the more kids and I talk about it now, right, you know, like, okay, that that wasn't doing enough, but I thought I was helping at the time. But yeah, so that financial piece was a really big catalyst for me to say, okay, I can figure this out. I can afford an apartment if I need to, I can do which I ended up being able to well, I walked away with nothing from because we had a house and I sold him the house for a dollar. The house was in my name and did you do that because you just needed to be done. I needed to not be entangled with him in any way. I didn't want him to fight me on any way that I wanted to handle the kid situation, which didn't work out the way I wanted it in the end as far as how I thought that was going to go, but it was what I knew would get him there or what I thought would get him there, I should say, because he did always kind of have this. I mean, he threatened that he would fight me for the kids, you know, and I couldn't I couldn't I couldn't afford that, right, could not afford that. And so to me, the money didn't didn't matter because I could at least support us by myself without needing like, you know, parental help or something, although it could have been there if I needed it, but I the money wasn't worth it. I think that's so telling that of what you had been put through and what that part of your life was like that a house that you purchased you for us for you guys, but you purchased that you were willing to sell that to him for a dollar. I mean, I think that just says it. Yeah, right there. That's how desperately you needed to be away. I paid for my sanity, right with that, which is fine. Right. Yeah, and and he didn't, you know, I

think that just says it. Yeah, right there. That's how desperately you needed to be away. I paid for my sanity, right with that, which is fine. Right. Yeah, and and he didn't, you know, I didn't take any support from the help for the kids. He was in school at the time to become to do better, which was great and he did great. He's living his life. Then he lives it the way he wants, right, which is fine. But I didn't I didn't want to be beholden to him in any way because then there would have been a sense of control that he could have had, right? There would have always been this, you know, out here. And so, anyway, so yeah, so we did, you know, I was able to buy my little place, ironically, where your mom lived back in the day, and it was a great oasis for us. So let me ask you this. You buy a three-bed a beautiful three-bedroom two-bath. Yeah. A beautiful room for your daughter, for your son, and you have your own room. What did it feel like to have this space that was completely safe and calm and peaceful and yours? What was that an adjustment? It was because I would catch myself thinking, oh, I got to go in the room and watch the TV. And it's like, no, I don't. I can sit on my couch and watch TV. Yeah, as much, you know, like I watch TV in my room now, like, you know, in the morning I watch the news because I'm a Gen X. I like to have my morning news and when I'm getting ready and then, you know, every once in a while in the evening, like when I'm going to bed, I'm like, okay, I'm going to finish this program before I go to sleep. But, you know, before that's the only place I ever watched television except for Friday nights because he was gone every Friday night. And so that was the kids and I is like, safe night. Right.

But, you know, before that's the only place I ever watched television except for Friday nights because he was gone every Friday night. And so that was the kids and I is like, safe night. Right. That was our fun night. We had fast food Fridays. I mean, anyways, it's just kind of crazy. But, yeah, it was, it was like I exhaled after being underwater for years. And the hard part was just dealing with the aftershocks of all the other stuff. Right. So once you're away from the daily part of it, then you settle into like what in the hell I've just put myself and my children through for all these years and now you're dealing with guilt on top of shame. And that's what I went to therapy for a while on that and actually did some work called EMDR because the right I think might did the initials right because I was having I wasn't having full-blown panic attacks, but it's like if I would just think about certain things, it was like I was having a physical reaction to it. Right. And so she really helped kind of get me past that and then I still use that tool even now like my safe place I used to help me go to sleep if I'm anxious or my brain won't shut up. Right. And then just, you know, giving me more language and then it pivoted from my the thing with that therapy for me is I really only worked that immediate trauma of like getting out of it. Right. Yeah. And then I was so then I pivoted to the kids because both of them were in different ways in their own chaos and I was needing to help manage them and get them their therapy, which you know, you can only leave work early and so many times and so the focus became them rightfully. So in my opinion and I was okay. I was I was managing. I was maintaining. I wasn't just associating.

you know, you can only leave work early and so many times and so the focus became them rightfully. So in my opinion and I was okay. I was I was managing. I was maintaining. I wasn't just associating. I was present, you know, all of that. And so we got through, you know, living, you know that and you know got my son had some real issues at the end of high school. We got him through that and then you know, he kind of blossomed in his own way and he's done more work on himself later and is you know, really present and going to change how he has relationships in the future and all that which I'm so thankful for and then my daughter, you know, went through some pretty significant things in high school. Of course, she was a covid kid as far as high school. So yeah, there was that there was some other in Oregon in Oregon to where it was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because some come to find out like it wasn't like that everywhere. I'm Florida had no idea. Yeah, I would have come earlier. Did you know her question around you're sitting there in your own place and safe and you described what it was like for you. Did the kids have a similar type of experience? Did you guys ever talk about that? Were they relieved as well? Yes, after so when we initially that first year we were split up the idea would be because I'd seen this pattern by my by some other family members and it worked really well was that okay, we'll do a week on week off, right? And we were less than a mile away from each other and I drove by that house every single day, which is crazy until May 7th of last year. Who's counting? Yeah, it's counting now. That's just like a retrigger. Retrigger. Retrigger. And I mean, it became less of a thing later on. But yeah, it was just like I

May 7th of last year. Who's counting? Yeah, it's counting now. That's just like a retrigger. Retrigger. Retrigger. And I mean, it became less of a thing later on. But yeah, it was just like I just went by there a while back because I went to visit old friends in my neighborhood and I'm like, I don't have to do that. Yeah. Anyways, but yeah, they did once once we got that first year we did that week on week off which ended up failing miserably once they were permanently in my home. I think and once my son kind of got through some of his stuff they did. I mean my place was a safe place. I was a safe. I was always a safe place. Yeah, and I think we got closer because the conversations got way more real because when we were when I when I was still my ex and it we were all in the home. We weren't talking about it at that level like and granted the kids were younger all the things but we didn't you know, I was just playing interference all the time, but we didn't talk about what just happened. It was like this. We didn't talk about the fact that you know, he came home at 2 o'clock in the morning and punched a hole in the door and we're fighting and screaming and my son's comforting my daughter, you know, I mean we did talk about it but not you know, and so those things we actually talked about. Yeah, those are the things that they come to you with it. Yeah. Yeah, they still do. I find it very interesting when we get together for any length of time and not just if they're both there because my son lives in another state now, but but even individually very often things come up and and they just need to talk about it and I don't want to talk about it anymore. Like because it breaks my heart, but they need to talk about it.

often things come up and and they just need to talk about it and I don't want to talk about it anymore. Like because it breaks my heart, but they need to talk about it. They're unpacking it. Yeah, and and that's okay and I'll talk about it as long as you need to talk about it and you're their safe person to unpack it with and you understand. Yes, and that's the thing. We all understand the same thing. You guys trauma bonded. Yeah. So they don't have to explain certain things to you because you get it. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, and you don't do that with your friends right now that you know, and so anyways, but yeah, so so yeah, I think it was their safe place and certainly, you know, all of us and I learned a lot from them. Honestly, they've they started pushing on me to especially my daughter to be more authentic. I mean, I will tell you that I didn't start to feel like a person my own authentic person until I left that and then it was like and I would part of that is then I started to talk about things that were happening that I didn't share. I had I have friends to this day that had no idea the level of it and they saw the fights. They saw the drunken things that might happen, but they had no idea the level of it and I might even say that some of them might think that I'm exaggerating. Right, but I think that happens. Yeah, because typically when the woman is in that situation, part of her peacekeeping is downplaying what's going on. Absolutely and keeping it the dirty little secret. Yeah. So if if they were there, they think they saw what they saw what they saw, but they didn't see what was going on. So they're only seeing their perception. Yeah, not reality. Yeah, and that's hard for me sometimes though.

they think they saw what they saw what they saw, but they didn't see what was going on. So they're only seeing their perception. Yeah, not reality. Yeah, and that's hard for me sometimes though. Because I need some of them to yeah, right. I need them to acknowledge it. And not downplay it themselves and believe you. Yeah, and believe that this happened to you. Yeah. Are they common friends who are referring to or just yeah. Okay. Yeah, and that probably is the aggravating that might be aggravating a little bit. Although they're not. I mean, I would tell you they're not his friends now. They're not, you know what I mean, but by association, there's some real tight circles. Yeah, right. And welcome. Spoken to someone who's own Kendall since she was 18. So he's feeling a little protective. I mean seriously though, if I know who cares if your life, it's your reality. It is and I mean I keep speaking it. I don't shut up about it or whatever and I don't need to talk about it all the time to them. I don't mean it like that. It just be nice, right? It's been nice if they acknowledge it. Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah. So I think though sometimes when people are bystanders to an abusive relationship, one of the reasons I think it's easier to think it wasn't as bad as it was because then they have to accept that they may have some guilt because maybe and even if they're blameless really, absolutely, but they may then feel oh, I should have done something or I should have seen it or I should have stepped in or why didn't I see what was going on in front of me. So even if that's not true, they may be feeling sometimes people feel that way so that they're like I'm going to pretend it wasn't as bad as it was because it relinquishes me of any responsibility.

they may be feeling sometimes people feel that way so that they're like I'm going to pretend it wasn't as bad as it was because it relinquishes me of any responsibility. You know what I mean? Yeah, and I don't know if that's the case, but nobody else has any responsibility. Of course, of course, like, you know, my mom to this now my mom's just like it kills her, right? Because I hid things real well. I mean, she knew she knew peripherally things weren't great. She had no idea. She does now because my kids talk about it in front of her and it and it kills her. But you know, I think it's an you know, my mom. Is a more authentic person now, I think than she ever was too. Maybe that's age for her. I don't know. You know, your children, my children. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, they certainly have a more authentic relationship. They don't hide things from her. It's interesting. You're using the term authentic and I found as our kids have gotten older. It's authentic. We have very authentic relationships. It's an amazing thing. Right. Part of that is them holding us accountable as they've gotten older. And it's do you find that your kids are doing that with you? 100% 100% Amelia calls me on my shit all the time. Yeah, yeah, which I hate and I love all this. Yeah, same thing. She went through some pretty significant stuff kind of in the high school era and we had to do some family counseling. Thankfully for it too. And I mean, it's because I was really interesting during some of that time. I really reverted to like how I was brought up. It's like, what do you mean? It's not that bad. You know, what's not that bad. That's not your right. And that was the thing I had. She had her reality, her memories of it, you know, whether

It's like, what do you mean? It's not that bad. You know, what's not that bad. That's not your right. And that was the thing I had. She had her reality, her memories of it, you know, whether they happen or not and they in her mind, they did and I would I would be like that's not that didn't happen. That's yeah. No, yeah happen. And like now I'm just like I'm sorry. Like that's the worst thing, you know, I mean I did that to my brother for years about us coming down here in the summertime for Alaska because he would he for years would give my mom a wrath about it. Like, you know, I didn't get to stay and play baseball and blah blah blah and I'm just like, what are you talking about? We were with our family. We got to go camping. We got to Disneyland. We did it. Well, his reality was he wanted to stay home and play baseball with his friends. Yeah, you know, and that that was his experience and I told him that this last summer. I'm like, you know, look, I'm I'm never going to give you crap about that again. I'm sorry. I did because that's what you wanted. I get it. You know, so funny because we were not brought up to really pay attention to other people's realities. It was like it's just the reality we all share. It is what it is. We all were there at the same thing. Right. Everybody experienced it differently. Yeah, you didn't really acknowledge that it was just this collective thing that absolutely can all agree on. I think we were all just power powering through, you know, we didn't have guidance really. We didn't have anyone checking in with us emotionally or physically in a lot of ways too. So we were all just kind of pioneering things. We we have been pioneering our life since we were children

We didn't have anyone checking in with us emotionally or physically in a lot of ways too. So we were all just kind of pioneering things. We we have been pioneering our life since we were children and we're still pioneering. We're pioneering. I've talked about this old age, the second half of our life quote unquote old age. But we're I feel like Gen X is a is a big pioneering generation because we've had to be we've had to but as a result, yeah, you're right Brian. Like we didn't we all just kind of were in the shared experience and we just kind of did it. No one was really talking to each other because we're the sandwich generation as you call it is, you know, my mom is that from the silent generation. She doesn't really share a whole lot. But then we have kids that are zillennials, millennials and they share everything just just Gen Z and zillennials. We don't have any millennial. But yeah, they share everything sometimes you're like, oh goodness of everything, huh? All right. Thanks. I mean, okay. Yeah, that's okay. That's something and then I have to learn like to unpack what they're really, you know, especially what what does that mean exactly because you know, there's a lot of new things and and you know, especially in Oregon, you know, there's a lot of different experiences than than saying, you know, other parts of the country or whatever. And so yeah, and but you know, I'm learning every day. Yeah, and I'm open-minded to it. Because that's what they need me to be and I'm not going to risk alienating them because I can't get over it. Right, right. Yeah, like it's it's a different version of suck up. That's a learned skill for us though. It's 100%. Yes. They force us to rise to the occasion. Yeah, I feel like she's

Right, right. Yeah, like it's it's a different version of suck up. That's a learned skill for us though. It's 100%. Yes. They force us to rise to the occasion. Yeah, I feel like she's probably more of a natural with this. Yeah, where she's always been the the empathetic one. What do you call yourself an empath? Right? Oh, I wouldn't say officially but I have empathetic tendencies. Yeah, I'm I have empathetic tendencies but far much more lagging. Yeah. Well, it's just more of a matter of fact, right? Like, okay, and I mean, I grew up very much, you know, get up, get over it. Like, what's the problem? Move on, move on. Right, right. That's right. Move on. Like, why are you yelling in this? You know, this one, right? His neck hurts. It's like, dude, come on. Right. Shake it a little bit. You'll be fine. Right. No, but I think but then when there's things that aren't with in childhood, we act out our decisions are the result of not of those things not being dealt with. And so it really tumbleweeds into the next phase of your life. If it happened in elementary school, it's going to come through through junior high, high school, college, marriage, being a parent, not resolving the root of the problem is going to present itself at some point. And I think for many Gen Xers, we end up have ended up resolving things midlife. Yeah, because we've just been powering through and all of a sudden it's like, okay, we need to resolve what's what happened. Whatever it was that happened to us. Yeah, because we all have our own experience even though we have a shared experience. I feel like once we hit kind of our 50, we we finally said, okay, we need to deal with this because this even and it feels like it sounds crazy to unpack your

have a shared experience. I feel like once we hit kind of our 50, we we finally said, okay, we need to deal with this because this even and it feels like it sounds crazy to unpack your childhood trauma at 50, but it's really the first chance we've had. Yeah, well, it's like I've said like I need to unpack this for me now. I don't need to unpack that like if you go back to childhood with my mom, my mom and I are fine and it would only make her feel bad and she doesn't she doesn't need to go there and it's okay. That's fine. That's not what I need. What I need is for me because I've got another, you know, not 50 years, but another 35 whatever, right? Maybe 50. Maybe 50. But you know, and then also for me like at some point, maybe there's a person in my life. I just want to make sure that I'm the best version of me and have an authentic or real, you know, connected relationship or whatever that might look like, you know, in the future. I'm not looking for it tomorrow, but I want to be prepared for it in case it comes, you know, in case I find, you know, meet somebody and so, you know, which I'm hopeful at some point to do. I don't think I'm ready for that now and I haven't been, I haven't dated or anything in 10 years. So I'm I'm you've been working on yourself. I've been well working on myself and working on and focusing on my kids. Yeah, your kids. Yeah, which is which is an uncommon, right? But now it's like, you know, I'd love my two cats, but I don't want to be the cat lady. Right, right, right. You know, well, you said it yourself 2025 is your year. Yeah, you know, it's time to start focusing on a lot of pieces of of who I am and what I've been made up, how I've become who I am. Yeah. And you know, and seeing where that leads you.

Yeah, you know, it's time to start focusing on a lot of pieces of of who I am and what I've been made up, how I've become who I am. Yeah. And you know, and seeing where that leads you. Yeah, and makes and I'm excited for it though. Yeah, I'm excited to do that work. I know it's gonna be hard and you know, we'll be very but I but I'm excited to try. I'm hopeful. I have. Yeah, I'm hopeful and I I just I'm anxious to see what would I get through to it just to just settle some of the noise, you know, some of the the stuff that floats around in the back of my brain when I'm sitting there in my house listening to, you know, whatever. This is a unique thing for our generation though, right? Because I don't think your mom and my mom probably your mom. They're not unpacking things. No, no, no. Unpacking is like it's the whole new thing. Yeah, no, but but then the kids behind us or the people behind us. They've been more coddled maybe or taken care of maybe closely more closely parented than we were or something. You mean you mean the generation like Millennials and Gen Z. Yeah, I mean Gen Z definitely because Gen Z is we raised Gen Z Gen X or are raising Gen I should say are Gen Z, you know, it goes it's a vast age range. So I'm just curious why we have so many issues and I mean I get it in terms of the we were feral. We weren't watched our parents didn't guide us through things, right? There was no talking but it feels like that's a unique phenomenon for this this generational stuff in a sense. I feel like because silent generation and and boomers like they probably had similar as far as they were they were just seen and not heard powering through, you know, silent generation just keep going going don't say anything.

they probably had similar as far as they were they were just seen and not heard powering through, you know, silent generation just keep going going don't say anything. I sometimes I wonder if with Gen X what's unique about us and why we are a pivotal generation is we were also feral and out there and not checked in with it just kind of like boomers kind of like silent generation, but we also were empathetic and compassionate and thoughtful and loving in outward way. So and kind in an outward way as much as Gen X doesn't want to get involved and control other people and let them live their life. They're always I feel the first to be there to help or if somebody needs something. So we were I feel like we were very aware of of people around us, but we still didn't give a shit what anyone thought. So it's a weird thing. Whereas I think maybe with boomers and silent generation. I don't think there was that that connection of what of what other people might be going through. They were just having their own unique experience. But we we kind of had a chip on our shoulder, but at the same time would stop everything to help you. So it's I don't know if that makes sense. It does and it what's what's interesting to me is it is somewhat universal because I'm from New Jersey or from Oregon. She's from Alaska for the most pretty formative years. We all have the same kind of thing. Yeah, absolutely. Just shared experience. Yeah, from a generational perspective. No matter what part of the country. Yeah, yeah. We're all kind of have this rough tough exterior and we were had to be self-sufficient from a very young age and and never really had a chance to process a lot of what the trauma we went through. But that didn't stop that didn't make us selfish.

were had to be self-sufficient from a very young age and and never really had a chance to process a lot of what the trauma we went through. But that didn't stop that didn't make us selfish. Yeah, we aren't a selfish generation and I don't know if Millennials will agree on that, but we really are not a selfish generation. You know, we're Gen X has been pivotal in society and so much of it has come from love and kindness, you know, and so I just but we also don't give a fuck. Well, what's interesting like I'm just listening to your, you know, your story and it's amazing. And now you've hit this phase where you're like, I'm going to work on myself and you've got this whole body of knowledge and experience to really do it, right? There's tools now at your disposal. Exactly. So I didn't experience the scars, the battle wounds. At no point did those tools, although there, at no point did I think to look into them earlier, right? Than when I the couple times I did there because things happened, right? Not a cumulative of whatever it was things happened that happened significantly to me not to just the whole experience. And so yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting the shift. And I also feel that I am allowed to now and I didn't feel maybe allowed to before. Yeah, like I because it would have been selfish to do so. Is that right? Yeah, your kids age thing that I don't know if it was the kids thing. I just think it was my focus should be elsewhere than on me. Right. Although others might disagree with that, but yeah, you just you just really nailed it. We're not a self-centered generation. Yeah, you know, so I think so you're like what you're talking about like that's not your first thing is to think of yourself.

We're not a self-centered generation. Yeah, you know, so I think so you're like what you're talking about like that's not your first thing is to think of yourself. No, it's like get all this done. Then if you need to worry about yourself, you can figure it out, right? Which is where we're at and this is what we've seen so far on some of the posts we put out there and feedback. We've got interaction. It's a women really identify with this women your age. Yeah, really identify with that. They're done. They've had enough or reclaiming their energy or they're ready to focus on themselves. I mean and that's a universal thing for your age group. And that's like I mean that can be what I'm doing that can be like it. I mean, you know in a successful marriage. It's the same thing. There's a there's a there's a change in energy or where in the focus needs to be and so it's it's important to acknowledge that and I think that's why you know a lot of women have real problems when their kids go to college, right? Yeah, because that's been their focus even if they're professionals. That's been their focus other than that professional and so trying to find where they fall is you know, you get a lot of identity from that and I certainly did and but but it's you know, what you do best is your create humans to put them to the next yes to the next spot and then they do successful and it's like great. You've done your job. Well, yeah, but it's being allowed to reflect back on yourself then and say okay, cool. I've done this. I've done it. Well, you know as well as I could we're all good. So now I need to to find who I am again and what that means and I don't think I ever found that you know, a lot of maybe people have that before they

Well, you know as well as I could we're all good. So now I need to to find who I am again and what that means and I don't think I ever found that you know, a lot of maybe people have that before they get married or in those pivotal 20s, you know, you kind of start to build that and even if it went off course you can come back to some of it and like I said, I didn't feel like I was an authentic human and I mean, you know, I was a piece of that marriage to right like right he had his pieces and there was they were damaging but I'm sure there was a piece of me that was you know, part of that puzzle to arm, you know, I know there was a piece of me that was part of that puzzle. So, you know, my kids saw that too. Right does that mean you know, right? Well, but I think that and we've talked about this before the Gen Z women especially are taking that time in their 20s to figure out who they are to authentically know themselves and and then if you know, then they will have that as they go into their relationships if they choose to go into a relationship or marriage or if they choose to have children they have that sense of who they are and I think that's amazing. Well, my I mean watching my daughter, she's almost 21. Her boundaries that she's she's created and she I mean, I am so proud of her for what she will and will not put up with. Yeah, whether it's relationships or friendships even and you know, it's messy because she's 21 and they're all 21 and it's college and whatever but but the stuff that is like no like I'm you know, and not just because she and you know, the dad she had or or the mom she had it was just I think she'd have that anyway. Yeah, so she is because she's got the core strength to say no, I'm worth more and you

and you know, the dad she had or or the mom she had it was just I think she'd have that anyway. Yeah, so she is because she's got the core strength to say no, I'm worth more and you know, yeah, but the healing she's done through therapy and through being able to talk to you authentically and you've given her the space to unpack that has a lot to do with that. I mean, so you made a really good point about going through the you know, the finding the time for yourself and reclaiming your energy and focusing on whatever unpacking trauma that it it doesn't it can happen in a healthy marriage to I think sometimes when people think women are talking about, you know, I'm going to reclaim my energy and I'm going to you know, have time for myself and I'm going to do this thing and that that they're saying they're going to leave their husbands or that they're going or that means you're going to get divorced that divorce and reclaiming your energy are parallel or it's inevitable or that the husband's done something wrong to create this whole thing. It's like right now that yes, kind of isn't about the husband correct. Honestly, I don't know where the partner or the partner somebody else. I mean, it's about this, you know, that person and in how we have managed all of it like it's not even about necessarily how somebody else is like, oh well, I'm not going to cook for you every night or what you know, it is it no it doesn't mean that there's a that the relationship is broken that there is something wrong in the relationship. Now, it doesn't mean that some things should maybe evolve in the relationship and I 100% think that the woman in this situation should talk to her partner, her husband, whatever about what she's going through and he may need

in the relationship and I 100% think that the woman in this situation should talk to her partner, her husband, whatever about what she's going through and he may need to evolve and change along with her for her needs. But just because a woman is reclaiming her energy does not mean that she is getting divorced or that she's leaving her partner. And I think just devil's advocate on that too. I think in that case like in a healthy relationship, right and they need something different from their partner that they've need needed for 20 years, right? Like the right thing is to give them a little give the partner a little space to catch up, right? Because like when I was ready to get divorced or when I finally pulled the trigger and it was like there was a moment but let's be honest. I've been planning that for years, right? Like I was already there by the time it finally happened, you know that person I've read this before too, they're like by the time the person leaves, they're six months ahead of the person that you just told them you're leaving, right? And so now that person is trying to catch up on the train, right? Yeah, same thing if you need something different from a relationship and you just you can't say okay, I mean some of the things are easy, but like if it's a bigger like evolving thing like, you know, you need to give, you know communicate it and then give some space to like create new habits or whatever that might be and I don't know what you don't have an example. I think it's a I think it's a huge thing. I took that from a couple episodes ago where we evolve slightly slower. I think yeah, I think we mature slower when we're younger. Yeah, and then you guys get to this point. Maybe it's hormonal. Maybe it's the kids are

episodes ago where we evolve slightly slower. I think yeah, I think we mature slower when we're younger. Yeah, and then you guys get to this point. Maybe it's hormonal. Maybe it's the kids are leaving your shifting, right? You've got not a void, but you have this opening this opportunity because the kids have left and that's been probably your primary focus. Now you start thinking and you start thinking about this next phase. Meanwhile as men, we're just doing the same thing. You do need some time to catch up and communicate and listen and it's not the easiest thing. Well now and also sometimes women will let things go things they've been asking for from their partner and we've talked about this in past episodes because of what's going on in life raising kids and stuff. So she has communicated it to baby to her partner and she's at the point now where it's like you have to listen so many times you've been communicating it for so many years. It's what's different now, but something is different because you guys have hit that point to your point. I knew X amount of time ago. I wanted to divorce and I was there now. I just had to get line up the ducks in a sense. But you've say it for years and years and years, right? And then finally you really mean it. It's like whoa, the game just changed. I'm I'm still over here. Yeah, okay. But how now from a male perspective, how do you justify not listening for all those years to that request? I'm going to plead the fifth on this one. See that's a whole nother thing. It's like yes, you just expose yourself. Women maybe have been saying it for years and years and years and it's not the woman's responsibility that you need time to catch up on that. No, I do go back to the you get you get put into these roles and

it for years and years and years and it's not the woman's responsibility that you need time to catch up on that. No, I do go back to the you get you get put into these roles and oftentimes the man's role kind of keeps going along the same path and because you're so focused on kids and raising those kids if you have kids that you now have this opportunity. You have this extra time. Other you can do other things and you start to do those things and you get thoughts in your head and you start to act on them and it's just changes. It's changing for you at a different pace. I think that it is changing for guys. Okay, so the flip of that would be like you hear about, you know, midlife crisis is which for a long time were were men's midlife crisis is right. Yeah, and or when they retire and like men don't know what to do with themselves, right because historical gender roles right there in an office job or whatever and then it's like now they're you know, so it's it's something similar. It's just that now we're also doing it. I don't think we I don't think women as often or as vocally or or as identified were doing it 20 years ago. They were right and now we're just talking about it because we as the genic. I mean, I've asked my mom about menopause and she says well, I didn't really have that right and BS. She didn't. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure she didn't. I didn't live at home with her. So I didn't know no no no experience it but they didn't they didn't talk about it. But no, but genics is also changing narrative on that. Absolutely. I mean, you know, all of this is like it's it's involving for men and women. You know differently for our generation than it did previously, you know, I'm sure your dad, you know, when he I'm assuming

it's it's involving for men and women. You know differently for our generation than it did previously, you know, I'm sure your dad, you know, when he I'm assuming he retired. Yeah, and you know, that would have been transition for your mom to have him home all the time and you know, all of those kind of things. It's just but they wouldn't have had the community. I think you hit it though. I think you hit it. Our parents didn't really do it. Your mom really probably didn't do a huge shift. I don't my mom really didn't either but you guys are and it's a generational thing and you're changing the game. I think for men because as if I look out, I never expect my mom claiming her space and I'm packaging shit. That's not even a reality. I'm packaging. Right packaging pack to whatever it is. That's just not a reality. So the game has changed. Yeah, and we'll catch up, but I don't think that we're quite there. Well, you guys aren't haven't identified it yet. Are you guys having? It is. Yeah, I mean catching up is probably at your probably about five years behind and and I mean and that's on Gen X women because we are an incredibly loving group, but we also don't take shit. And so you're what you're dealing with is that all of our love for all these years was given to our families, our children and our husbands partners, but now we're in the I don't I'm not going to take shit face and that's I think a lot of that is like because I know so many Gen X women and they're all badasses in love and in sticking out for themselves. Right now now, but but we gave they gave over the of themselves in those years just as as passionately as as they're passionately trying to reclaim their energy now. So I think what you've what you touched on earlier, we're

over the of themselves in those years just as as passionately as as they're passionately trying to reclaim their energy now. So I think what you've what you touched on earlier, we're talking about like the Gen Z women is that they're doing it first. Yes, instead of ending with it or or getting middle, right? They're like, heck no, I'm going to start here and then figure out the rest of it on top of that, right? What whatever that means like, I mean the idea that my kids have a marriage and not because of how bad it was, but just in general, like how I was or like my parents was it there's absolutely no reason. No, no, and and I think that they will go through their lives speaking at least to Gen Z women authentically knowing themselves and honoring themselves through all their phases. Hopefully, I mean as a mother, it's always hard. You always but I still think they're going to approach motherhood differently. Yeah, it's gonna be really interesting to see that actually. Yeah, and I would even say with my son who's 26, you know, watching him and the what he's done the work he's done after a relationship and and what he needed to do for that to like make sure he has the appropriate boundaries now for future whereas I you know, if he hadn't done that quite honestly, he might still be in a not healthy relationship because it you know, it was mirroring some things not not from abusive standpoint, but just mirroring some like okay. Well, I'm just going to settle for this. This is what I get. You know, this is my lot whatever. I don't think that's the case anymore. I feel like he's he's transitioning, you know, as I've as we've he and I have talked, you know on some things coming up, you know going forward. It's like, okay.

I feel like he's he's transitioning, you know, as I've as we've he and I have talked, you know on some things coming up, you know going forward. It's like, okay. All right. Oh, thank God. But you know, yeah. Yeah, it's so encouraging it is and I do think I I don't think Millennials got enough credit. I think Millennials started this. I think that in general Millennials started the shift. I really do. Yeah, they're married to their marriages. Yeah, you said yourself. Oh my god watching you man. You have Millennials you work with them. Yeah, and listening to them. They're just kind of a natural partners. Yeah, it's like, you know, expectation that just because a kid's sick that means that the mom has to be off or whatever. That's like that's not the expectation. You know, we have a more flexible workforce now, which also helps. I think some of this but the expectations of like I think about my boss who again was a great supporter still is he he's not that much older than me, but he was much more of like well if your but pre covid, you know, butts in the chair, you know, seven to seven that means you did a good work day, right? If you leave at 3 30 to go to an appointment, it's like how's your half day? Yeah, you know, he used to joke like that. Yeah, just to make me insane. He's even he's come around now. Yeah, you know through code and so it's like that flexibility from a workforce men are getting it too. Not just women and the expectation is that the men I mean, I told my boss one time. I'm like, yeah, it'd be nice if I had a wife. Yes. Yeah, you know, because it's like a good point. Who do I have to take a kid to an appointment? I don't have a wife because his wife stayed home. Yeah, you know, yeah, great. I'm they could structure it.

it's like a good point. Who do I have to take a kid to an appointment? I don't have a wife because his wife stayed home. Yeah, you know, yeah, great. I'm they could structure it. I don't and I'm not not going that way, but it's like, you know, yeah, I don't have that. So that's me right and you know, and he was fine, but it's just yeah, but with the Millennials, I think that that shared responsibility. It's starting with them. Yeah, I think they definitely have cracked cracked the shell and then I think Gen X raising Gen Z the way we have they're just going to run with it. But you know, what's interesting is when you when you manage people and you manage different people or different generations of people you get to guys same like me at Gen X. It's you get you know, you get into these career development kind of conversations and we're not as say dynamic as a Millennial who really does have a plan. Yeah, they want to map it and they want to go towards it. And they want you to participate in it and it is actually cool because again, it's holding you they hold you more accountable and I think it's somewhat interchangeable to say accountability and authenticity are very similar. You know, in sometimes I get annoyed that I have to be like oh, yeah, they pushed me like that. It's like they like, you know, I've worked I've I've again, I've managed some people that are Gen X and it was just like okay. It was more. I wasn't really managing it was like, okay, they just kind of worked and you know told them what to do and then these others like okay. Well, and here's my plan and this is it and I'm just like, the Millennials have to participate in this. Okay, I'm going to think about it and it but it's pushed me to be a better.

others like okay. Well, and here's my plan and this is it and I'm just like, the Millennials have to participate in this. Okay, I'm going to think about it and it but it's pushed me to be a better. I mean, this is pivoted into employee stuff, but yeah, it's pushed me to become like oh, that's what it is to be a leader not just a boss or a you know supervisor or something and and I welcomed it like eventually once I got over myself and yeah, okay and then got some tools around it. I think that's touching into what's allowed you to be a stronger person. It's not just a better manager. Yeah, you become a better person. Yeah, that's a point. That's actually really good point. I mean honestly, you know, this this company I work for I you know, they're great and I honestly it's been the solve self self or you know over a lot of things because it's allowed me to do this last 10 years. I mean, I've been there 10 years to get through this and have such a stable not just a stable employment, but just also then grow in the company which has given me another, you know, I spent a lot of time overly focused on work because it gave me a lot of validation that way and I wasn't getting it elsewhere. And so I've learned to balance that and that's another thing that I think Gen X is trying to figure out that balance now later in life, right because we didn't under we didn't have that tool because the expectations when we were all working for Boomers. Yeah, kind of like I was talking about the Millennials have helped us they well and but do you I mean those initial millennials would be like, oh god, they want an Xbox in the break room and it's like, what are you talking about? What do you mean? You're not in a you know, there's some really funny.

millennials would be like, oh god, they want an Xbox in the break room and it's like, what are you talking about? What do you mean? You're not in a you know, there's some really funny. Yeah, I'm not on tik-tok, but there's some really funny reels that I watch on Instagram. They're probably tick-tock where it's like different generations responding to business things. Yeah, and it's like, oh, yeah, that's so true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's interesting the Millennials. They want a better work-life balance. Yeah, and as a Gen X or I'm like, well, what the hell is that? You know, I've I still have the the Raspberry but not the Raspberry. What the hell is that the Blackberry buds? Yeah, the Blackberry in my hip for years. Yeah, I still get like a buzz and guys my age can relate to that. Yeah, but the Millennials they wanted more balance work-life balance and they get you thinking well, why shouldn't we have more work-life balance? Right now, I think they changed the landscape of companies and then as a result, I mean they definitely did. Yeah, and then as a result, it's automatically what Gen Z kind of is looking for and they're looking for work and then when they don't find it, they're like, what? No, I yeah, this isn't what I'm looking for. So I think the Millennials have definitely created that work-life balance expectation for the Gen Z is 100%. So yeah, which they got a wrath of crap for for a long time. Yeah, I actually and I will probably I you know, apologies to them all because at some point I probably said that, you know, 10 years ago or something was part of that, but you're right. I mean, I think they really started it and it's forced us to kind of look back and be like, okay, what the hell am I working so hard for?

something was part of that, but you're right. I mean, I think they really started it and it's forced us to kind of look back and be like, okay, what the hell am I working so hard for? Yeah, I mean, I want to work hard. I want to be a good employee. I want to do all the things but you know, the truth is if I'm not there tomorrow, they were somebody's going to miss me. Yeah, but it's going to they're going to keep going. You know, what I found is that since covid and the best thing about it is I work from home now. Yeah, and instead of that being in your chair from 7 to 7. Yeah, I may probably check email every day at 637 in the morning. Yeah, then I'm away for a little while and then I come back and then I'll work throughout the weekend, but it's not really working. It's just checking in and keeping tabs on things. Yeah, but it's I don't know. I feel like I have a more of a balance balance in that. Yeah, well, I'm on I'm on vacation and you know, I was doing work emails before I came in here and you know, I took a call like what are you doing? And like I'm just checking in I you know, if I did this then I don't have to worry about it. Yeah makes going back easier. Thanks going back easier and it's not like I'm sitting around waiting for anything and yeah, sitting at the island, you know, what yeah well shout out to the Millennials for helping Gen X and work life balance. I'll take it. I'll take it for sure. Listen Kendall. We can't thank you enough for sharing your story with us. Yes, you know being so vulnerable with us and with our listeners. I know there's going to be some people that can relate to a lot of the things that we talked about and probably feel very seen from some of it. So I hope so. Yeah, I mean it's yeah, it's

listeners. I know there's going to be some people that can relate to a lot of the things that we talked about and probably feel very seen from some of it. So I hope so. Yeah, I mean it's yeah, it's I know I'm not the only one, you know, you know certainly feel like that at the moment, but yeah, it's this has been cool and just you know happy to have been here happy to be a part of it. So we're absolutely thrilled because we do have quite a journey we've had with Kendall. We've known her since we were teenagers, which is crazy. You're going to ask her five-year plan? No, because I think 2025 is her this is her year and that's her that's her plan and I just feel like that's your immediate plan. Yeah, and I know Kendall's going to come and see us again. So we're going to reflect on how did that go? Yes, you know, yeah, I'm really happy for you. I think you're doing awesome. I think the self-awareness or revelation the authenticity the whole thing. It's awesome. Congratulations. You good timing. I mean, it's like I'm not a victim now just now on and that's the thing that's unfortunately depending on who might see it. There's other people out there who might think I'm playing a victim. It's like no, not you're so not your no, this was my experience and all of this is now going to take me to the next experience. So yeah, 100% this is in a way. I'm not saying this is closure, but I think this is a great foundation to bounce off of as you tackle your year of you because your truth deserves to be said. Yeah, and no, you're not a victim. You're a Queen, you're a lawyer and you're an inspiration probably to a lot of people that are going to hear this and may even motivate some women to take some steps to get themselves out of a situation.

you're an inspiration probably to a lot of people that are going to hear this and may even motivate some women to take some steps to get themselves out of a situation. So just sharing your story for that alone is courageous. And something too is very inspiring. So thank you here. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We love having you. So next time you visit we will have Kendall on again and see how where she's at in her life, you know, oh absolutely. And again, thank you to everyone for listening. We welcome all comments questions and we will see you again next time. Bye. Bye.