# Episode 23 - GenZ Women Series: Grace

- Podcast: GenX Adulting Podcast
- Published: 2025-03-11T02:00:00.000Z
- Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/16767737-episode-23-genz-women-series-grace.mp3
- Page: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/transcripts/podcasts/genx-adulting-podcast/episodes/episode-23
- Source: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/episodes/genxadultingpodcastepisode23.html
- People: Grace (guest), Brian Barker (host), Nicole Barker (host)
- Topics: GenZ Women

## Summary

In Episode 23 of the GenZ Women Series, Grace shares her experiences growing up as a Zillennial, navigating the complexities of family dynamics, and her journey through motherhood. She discusses the impact of her parents' divorce on her trust in relationships, her transition to college, and the challenges of postpartum anxiety after the birth of her daughter.

## Key takeaways

- Grace identifies as a Zillennial, bridging the gap between Millennials and Gen Z.
- Her parents' divorce during her high school years significantly affected her ability to trust others.
- College was a transformative experience for Grace, allowing her to find her identity away from family expectations.
- She experienced postpartum anxiety after the birth of her daughter, highlighting the importance of support and open conversations about motherhood.
- Grace emphasizes the need for better postpartum care and awareness for new mothers.
- She found comfort in affirmations and support from friends after her miscarriage.
- Grace's husband played a crucial role in her postpartum journey, providing emotional support and understanding.

## FAQ

### What is a Zillennial?

A Zillennial is someone born on the cusp of the Millennial and Gen Z generations, typically around 1995 to 2000. Grace, born in 1997, identifies as the last of the Gen Z cohort.

### How did Grace cope with her parents' divorce?

Grace struggled with trust issues after her parents' divorce, feeling disillusioned and shutting people out. She took on a protective role for her younger siblings during this transition.

### What challenges did Grace face during her postpartum period?

Grace experienced postpartum anxiety and feelings of sadness after her daughter's birth. She sought support from her husband and a pelvic floor therapist, which helped her navigate her emotions.

### How did Grace's college experience shape her identity?

College allowed Grace to break free from family expectations and discover her true self, forming genuine friendships and finding her voice.

### What advice does Grace have for new mothers?

Grace emphasizes the importance of open conversations about postpartum experiences and the need for support systems to help navigate the challenges of motherhood.


## Referenced links

- [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spFHSPGBH7c)
- [Listen on Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-23-genz-women-series-grace/id1764838823?i=1000698678002)
- [Listen on Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/4YfqdozHcT8n0TrB8bZn6I)
- [Listen on Buzzsprout](https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/16767737-episode-23-genz-women-series-grace)

## Transcript

[Music]
Welcome to GenX Adulting and today we
have Grace with us. Welcome. Thank you.
We're so happy you're here.
Happy to be here.
Our first question is
always what year were you born?
1997.
Okay. So I'm sure, do you know that
you're a Zillennial? You're Gen Z, but
you're the last Gen Z. But
you're also a Zillennial.
Had you ever heard of that before?
Never.
So a Zillennial is you're in between the
Millennials and the Gen Zs, even though
technically officially
1997 is the last Gen Z.
But like your generation cannot relate at
all to like the 14 year olds that are Gen
Zs. You know, that's a
completely different life.
But nor can you completely relate to like
the 38 year old Millennials. They have a
completely different experience.
So you guys are kind of in the middle.
You spent a decent amount of your
childhood without social media, without
technology, without phones.
And then all that stuff showed up more in
your high school years, right?
Yep.
So were you one of the first ones to get
a phone or did you come from a background
where your parents kind of
waited a little bit on that?
We, our rule was
going into middle school.
OK.
Because you were going to start taking
the bus then. So my parents wanted us to
have a phone for the bus.
You know, the bus is late. Something
happens. You have a phone and you can
call them. But it wasn't.
I mean, it was a slide up and down phone.
Yeah.
It wasn't a smartphone.
No, I don't even think those existed at
that time. I don't know
when. No, I don't think that was.
They were all flip phones.
Yeah.
The other motor roller ones, you could
barely text on them.
I think you had to hit
the number one three times.
Yeah, exactly.
So your parents recognize the safety
aspect of it right away, which is really
commendable because I think for a lot of
parents, it was so new that like I know
we held off for a while
because we were just I don't.
You're in technology. So you were
probably more comfortable with it.
But I was more hesitant. But to recognize
the safety aspect of it, you know, your
parents were on it as far as that because
it makes such a difference.
And now we have a younger Gen Z and I
wouldn't even think twice about as soon
as we felt it was comfortable.
We handed him the phone with our older
son, who's your age.
You know, we hesitated more.
So it's kind of that evolution.
So yeah, but you kind of
got the best of both worlds.
You know, a little bit of an organic
millennial Gen X childhood and then right
into the technology and the social media.
So I always like to
say that about you guys.
So did you grow up in one town or did you
move it all through your childhood?
Yeah. So I was born in Miami and then we
moved when I was about
one and a half, I think.
And my mom still lives in the same house.
So I was raised in that house.
I moved away for college, was away at UF
for a little bit and then stayed there an
extra year past when I graduated and
moved back home with my husband.
So most of your childhood is in one town
and do you have siblings?
Yes, I am one of four. So
I'm the second in the lineup.
Okay.
Older brother and then it's me, my little
sister and then my youngest brother.
So busy family.
Yes.
Okay. So would you say you were raised in
a traditional was your
mom home or did she work?
Did your dad work? Like
what was the background there?
Yeah. So my mom raised us, all four of
us, she was a stay at
home mom all the way through.
My dad worked very long hours, busy job,
classic Monday, Friday, and then also on
weekends he would typically work and he
would take Sunday off.
But Saturdays he would work as well.
Okay. So your mom had
the load of four kids.
Yep.
That's a lot.
Yep.
And where did they meet?
They met at church in Miami, actually.
Okay.
Yeah.
And are they still married
or how long were they married?
No, they were married. I
believe it was 22 years.
Wow.
Maybe 23.
That's a long time.
And so did they divorce?
Yes, they got divorced when I was in high
school as a sophomore.
That's a rough time
for something like that.
They actually separated then and then
they didn't legally get divorced for a
couple years. But yeah, yeah, it was a
big transition at that age.
Yeah. Yeah. And so how did that affect
you and your siblings at the time or at
least speaking of your own experience?
I feel like I just had a hard time in
general with trust at that point.
I kind of shut everyone out of my life.
My friends broke up with
my boyfriend at the time.
I just kind of shut everyone off.
Didn't know who I could trust.
Didn't know who was just trying to get
information from me or if
they actually cared about me.
I just wasn't sure. So I
just wanted to protect myself.
So up until that point, were you a fairly
trusting person of your friends, of your
boyfriend, in general, of
the people in your life?
For sure. Yeah, I think I always kind of
saw the best in people until
they gave me a reason not to.
But once my parents split up, I just I
wasn't I was kind of like if these people
who are supposed to be my example of love
and what I know what love is from.
And they broke up like what's real?
How am I supposed to tell if this person
really cares about me, if they just want
to gossip about me and my family?
I just I had no idea. So in order to get
hurt, I just walled myself up.
You probably felt completely
disillusioned and like the rug had been
pulled out from under you.
And would you say your siblings, it was
kind of a everyone felt
the way in the home or.
I think we each had such
a different experience.
My oldest brother was the summer that my
parents split up was
his last summer here.
And then he moved away for college. So he
was pretty much gone.
My younger sister, I think probably felt
similar to how I felt. She
was a little bit younger.
I kind of felt like I began taking the
role of I always looked out for my
younger siblings, but I really feel like
once my parents split up, it
was a lot of stuff was on me.
Like I wanted to keep their lives, my
younger siblings lives
as normal as possible.
And my little brother was really little.
So he was in elementary school.
So he doesn't even have memories of my
parents together. Right.
So that's all he's ever known. His
childhood was completely
different than ours. Right.
So you, as you just alluded to, so you
probably felt you took on
a little bit of parental.
Read not responsibilities, but just
making sure your younger siblings were
shielded from some of it.
So more of a maternal role. Yes. Yeah.
So would you I don't know. I've read some
stuff about eldest daughters and that
they tend to take on a certain role,
whether it's to as a people pleaser or.
If they're more compliant or they just
feel an innate responsibility for all of
their siblings and for
keeping the peace in the family.
Is there any truth to that in your own
experience as the eldest daughter?
I find myself agreeing with everything
you just said. I think I was previously
before becoming a mom.
I think I was definitely a people
pleaser. Definitely felt I mean, ever
since I was little, I feel like my sister
and I are 20 months apart.
And I still feel like I was kind of
mothering her when we
were, you know, three and one.
And then especially with my little
brother, I felt that too. I do think I
don't know. I think I think partially
I've always loved kids.
I've always wanted to be a mom. That's
always been something that's
kind of my natural instinct.
But I think that there was a certain
point where I wish I was
able to kind of just be a kid.
Did you feel that you were carrying a
responsibility of people's perception of
you through most of your childhood?
Absolutely. Yeah.
So and as a result, do you feel that that
kind of identified you without you having
control over your own
identity? Does that make sense?
Yes, exactly. I think that
I was kind of in this box.
People thought they knew who I was, you
know, what my beliefs were, values, just
kind of who I was as a person.
And I feel like I didn't I was not able
to break out of that
until I went to college.
So that had to have been incredibly
frustrating, especially through middle
school and high school years, because
especially in those years, the you the
need to defend yourself when people
misunderstand you is strong.
But then in some ways, did you feel you
couldn't come out and maybe write some
wrongs or some misconceptions about you
because of maybe how it might affect your
family or or a situation in general?
Yeah, I think there was always at the
forefront of my mind, protecting my
family, who they are, reputation,
everything I didn't want.
I kind of just let my character take a
hit or let people have their conceptions
about me, misconceptions about me to
protect my family as a whole.
And to give some context, just your your
family has had a place in our in our in
our society, in our town, right?
Just people might be wondering, like,
what with the family? Right.
So so some people know your family,
people in our town would know your of
your family, not everyone.
But so that's where that comes from. So
as a result, did you feel you didn't
really have your own voice for a lot of
your formative years?
For sure. And then this divorce happened.
So you probably you found a lot of
identity through your family.
This divorce happens and you're
completely disillusioned and feeling kind
of lost for a while.
And that happened right in high school.
Yeah. So what do you have vivid memories
during those years or do you kind of do
you do you kind of disassociate?
Did you disassociate through part of it?
I do. There are some kind of black and
white memories that I have, you know,
finding out my parents were splitting up
all of those things.
Some memories with friends, some weird
things teachers would say to me, just
kind of distinct
memories that are in my brain.
But I do think I kind of just shut down
and and walled up. So I think there's a
lot of that that I don't remember.
That's blacked out. That makes sense. The
trauma response in some ways. So then how
did you view college?
Was it I need to get out of here. I need
to I need to to get out of
this space. I need a fresh start.
Or were you hesitant to leave your
family? I felt like I wanted to get I
definitely wanted to get out of town.
I wanted to get you couldn't just, you
know, drive there in an hour.
There needed to be a little bit of a road
trip involved, but I wanted to be close
enough for my siblings.
Yeah, it was something that I really I
didn't just want to leave them and feel
like I was abandoning them. Right.
Yeah. So then UF was a nice balance for
that. And so then when you got to school,
was that really your first time where you
could just be like that freshman year
arriving in the dorms?
How was that? Because that would have
been really your first
time to be you. Yep. Right.
Right. I felt like I could walk out into
the world and people wouldn't just look
at me and say, oh, that's
Grace. I know who she is.
I know her family that and be whispering
about me. Like that's how I felt. Anytime
I walked outside where we live before I
went to college and I got to meet girls
who loved me for me and
who just supported me.
And I feel like I hadn't had that. I
always felt like there was a an ulterior
motive for people having me in their life
when I was in high school.
Like everyone had an agenda. And that's
awesome, though. It's just awesome that
you were able to get to UF and kind of be
your own person,
somewhat anonymous. Right. Yep.
And go find your own people. And it was
more organic and real. I could build my
crew of who I wanted around me. Yeah.
I feel like I didn't have that
opportunity up until that point. No, you
would. You know, it's funny. I never
thought about that,
but you wouldn't have.
It was probably fairly depressing if you
think about it. So you get to college and
you get to know yourself for the first
time. And what was that like?
It was it was really freeing. I feel like
I was. I had had like these weights that
I was just carrying around and then I was
just able to go and do what I wanted to
do and not worry about it.
Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, it was an
incredible experience and to also have
people friends for the first time in my
life who I feel like really loved me as
an individual as grace and not as, you
know, a part of my family.
Or something like that. It was just a
different, totally different experience.
So you would you would stop trusting
people really through your high school
years. You get to college.
Did it take you a bit to adjust to
learning how to trust people again? Yeah,
for sure. It's funny. There's this
memory. The first night we all went out.
I was my my summer bee roommate was
that's the summer
semester at UF was a triplet.
And so she it was like an automatic group
of friends. You know, there were there
were four of us and then their roommates.
So I think there were seven or eight of
us. And I remember the first night we
went out together. We got lost. We were
trying to find a frat party and we
couldn't we couldn't find it.
We went to the on campus house and stuff.
The off campus house, just like a classic
group of freshmen girls not knowing what
they're doing. And I was telling them
things about my family and all of this
stuff. And I was like, do you guys still
want to be friends with me?
And they just looked at me like I was
crazy. They're like, Grace, we don't
care. Like, we all have stuff that
baggage, you know, everyone has baggage.
Yeah. Yeah. But you had been gotten used
to having to at least be perfect outside
of your home for the reputation and then
that chance to be able to express some of
your baggage and have them
accept you for for who you are.
That had been just such a huge moment in
your life. It was it really was it was
really special. And then were you able to
trust, you know, to have a boyfriend
again to trust men again? Like, how did
your viewpoint on having a relationship
change from your parents divorce? And how
did you find healing to trusting in
having a relationship?
Yeah, so I actually had not really
planned on dating at all. When I went to
college, I met this guy who then ghosted
me. So it was just like a classic you
hear about college boys ghosting you and
you know, using girls and all of that.
And that was my first experience with the
guy. And so I was like, that's it. Yeah,
I'm really not dating. Yeah. I'm not
interested. I'm gonna focus on school.
And then my second semester, I guess.
Yeah, my second semester. So it was
January, technically, my third semester.
Of my first year, I was at a friend's
house, my friends invited one of the
triplets invited me over to her friend's
house, said it was just gonna be a group
of girls hanging out. I really don't want
to go. And I'm a very much of a homebody.
And I walked in the door. And there was
this guy sitting on the couch. And I just
saw him and I was like,
okay, I guess I'm gonna date.
So truly love at first sight.
You can relate to that.
Yes.
So you trusted him immediately. Was there
something about him where you just knew
you could or did he need to break through
a little bit some of the show?
Yeah, so that night we kind of we all
went out together. We kind of all hung
out and then we hadn't talked to each
other. He I guess messaged me on
Facebook. I didn't
see it. And we ended up.
He walked me home a few weeks later. I
was walking home by myself. And he said
he would meet me and walk me back to my
dorm green flag. Green
flag, immediate green flag.
And we sat in the common area and
literally from midnight until six o'clock
in the morning, told each other
everything about each other because I was
so set on focusing on my school. And I
didn't really want to waste time. I'm not
a go with the flow type of girl.
I'm very much of like a type A. I have a
plan. I didn't want to waste any time.
And I thought that if he knew everything
about me, there was no chance he would
want anything to do with me. So I just
told him everything. And he said, I want
to be here. I want to be your person. I
want to help you through this. I want to
do whatever I can. And I'll be patient
and I'll wait and
whatever you need. I'll be here.
Amazing.
And I just looked at him and I was like,
did you hear everything? Are you sure?
Yeah. And I knew that night, I always say
that he was either going to be the worst
heartbreak of my entire life, or I was
going to spend the
rest of my life with him.
Right. Right. And that was it. And it's
you met your person, but you also met
someone who got you. And I wasn't going
to leave. Right. Yeah. It's huge. I
didn't. I didn't believe that.
You know, someone wouldn't just wake up
one day and decide they were done, you
know, especially after. And I'm sure a
lot of that triggered from what you saw
with your parents. Yep. So did it still
take you a bit to fully trust it or after
that night? Were you in or did you kind
of where you still have that little bit
of doubt for a while until was it? What
was the moment where you knew? OK, I
think that we at that point on, I knew I
had to give everything a
shot. I had to go to the hospital.
I had to go jump into this relationship
with him because I just knew he was too
good of a person for me to not try and
see what happened. And then I think
probably the first year and a half, I was
still do a little self sabotaging, a
little bit of, oh, well, you know, if I
screw up, then he can't hurt me. Right.
And he was just there. He was like, I'm.
Yeah, I'm not going
anywhere. You don't need to be there.
You don't need to be scared of me
leaving. And I just I don't know. I think
we did a lot of work together, a lot of
work on communication. I mean, we were
young. We were 19 and 18 or 19 and 20.
Yeah. So we were really kids. Yeah. But
we just knew we were going to.
Just work on everything together. And I
think that that was huge, just knowing I
like he just wasn't going to go anywhere.
Yeah. Just going to be there. Yeah.
And what a life changing thing, right?
Yeah. To me, to have to know you found
your person that's going to have your
back no matter what. And and isn't going
to go anywhere. And even though you were
kids, at least for you, you had already
gone through a lot of life stuff. So when
you said you weren't wasting time, you
you were probably going to be the next
person you date was for a purpose,
probably for a potential husband.
But it wasn't that you just had already
gone through it. So you're like, you knew
you knew what you were looking for and
what you wanted. And so when he showed
up, you know, it was like, OK, this is
this is a go. And I'm sure that was
incredibly healing for you to have that
experience to have your partner. And you
both were you. Right. Yeah. So what did
you study? I actually was pre-nursing
originally and then decided it wasn't for
me. I thought I was going to be very
burnt out very fast.
So I kind of reassessed, tried to figure
out what I wanted to do, ended up
changing my major to sociology and
figured out I wanted to be a speech
pathologist. So I just needed to get my
bachelor's and then I was going to do a
post-bac program and then apply to grad
school. So that's what I did.
Wow. And UF is not easy. No. How hard was
it to change your major at UF?
It was I had to make a decision because
it was going to be the semester I either
applied to nursing school or changed my
major. There was not really a lot of
time. Right. So I kind of had to sit down
and really think like, OK. And like I
said, I'm a planner. So I wasn't just
going to change my major with no idea of
what the next steps were going to be.
The physical act of changing it wasn't
hard. It was more for me not knowing. OK,
so I'm not just going to graduate and get
a job as a nurse. Like, what's going to
happen next? Right. Right.
And so did you guys graduate at the same
time together? I graduated a year early
and he was an engineering major. So his
program's five years. So he
graduated after me, actually.
So did you stay up there? Yeah. While he
was up there. Oh, and then did you
continue with education? You said with
for the speech pathologist, did you
continue on at UF focusing on that? Yeah.
I got my my bachelor's degree and then
you just need a bachelor's to apply for
the post back. And OK, fully online. So I
did all those classes. It's the
prerequisites to get into grad school.
You just don't have to earn another
bachelor's degree, like with the general
education. And that would have been your
fifth year then you were doing that
online. And then you went to graduate
school. Did you do that up at UF?
No, that was down here. OK, so then you
both moved down here. Yeah. So did
anything. Did you just graduate, moved
down here? Did anything happen?
Yeah. So he proposed the weekend that I
graduated. Wow. It was just a casual
weekend. OK, so he saw a year left.
Right. Yeah. And so the weekend you
graduated, did you know?
No, I had thought I made a joke because
his friend was that best friend is a
photographer. So he was going to take
graduation pictures for me. And I made a
joke, had no idea he was planning on
proposing. But I said, it would be so
funny if you proposed when I'm all
dressed up and we already have a
photographer. Right. And he's like,
Grace, why would you say that? You just
ruined my plan. So then he had to work
really hard to make me think he wasn't
proposing that weekend. And he did. I
fully believed he changed his whole plan.
So I had no idea going in. And so you're
completely surprised, completely
surprised. And your family was there,
right? So it was your weekend graduation
weekend. Yeah. So that's perfect. Yeah.
It was really fun to have them there. Is
he also from the same area? No, he was
actually born in Arizona and then moved
to Vermont and then moved to Tampa. So
OK. And then went to UF. So was his
family, his family wouldn't have been
there that weekend, right? So it wasn't
his graduation weekend. So
it was just your family. Yes.
So how have the families blended? I would
say it's been interesting. It always is.
Yeah. Were they OK with him moving down
where you're where you're from? I think
so. I think that there was some pushback
initially when we got engaged because I
was the one with the full time job and he
was the one who was still in school,
which is not traditional.
And we are both very level headed people.
And that was something that we had to
explain to a lot of people close to us.
It wasn't just we're getting married
because it's what you know, we just feel
like this is going to be a good move.
We've really thought about this and we
want to spend the rest of our lives
together. So and I think that since
they've come around, but initially there
was. Now it's understandable. So because
I was going to ask you because we got
married at 23. So and we
were the first of anyone we met.
We were the first of anyone we knew, I
think. And we got married in Vegas. Oh,
wow. Yeah. And after driving around the
country for two and a half months to talk
about people going, what is happening? I
think my bridesmaids were
in tie dye. So I love that.
But so we understand a little bit about
what you're talking about. But for your
generation, would you say that getting
married right out of college or quote
unquote young is unusual? For sure.
I think that there's been a big push to
kind of like, what's the rush, which I
totally understand some of my close
friends have been in long term
relationships and they're not married yet
and they want to get married.
But they're not, you know, they're both
doing their individual things and, you
know, whatever the reasoning is, I don't
think there's necessarily a right plan or
a wrong plan in terms of age. I think you
mentioned earlier a little bit about
having that kind of life experience.
I think that that plays a big role. And
also just knowing I think a lot of people
think if you have problems in a marriage,
have a baby and that'll fix it. Or if you
have problems when you're dating, just
get married and everything will be OK.
And something I tell people is things are
just going to get exacerbated when you
get married. You are, you have to have
each other's backs 100 percent. So if
you're disagreeing, if these are small
fights or big fights that you've had all
through your relationship,
you're not just going to disappear. And
that was something we were very
intentional on. We knew we needed to
improve our
communication before we got engaged.
I have a question there. How did you get
to that point at such a young age?
Because there's some wisdom to what
you're saying and you're still pretty
young. Where did you
where did that come from?
I think for me, seeing what my parents
went through. And I think for him, his
parents were still married, still
together, had been together.
I think we also learned from previous
relationships what worked and what didn't
work. We both that first night, we sat
down and we went through what was good
about these relationships, what was not
so good, what could use
improvement, what we were missing.
And I just I think the biggest thing was
just trusting each other and not hiding
anything from each other. Because I think
that's something you see too, is people
think if they really knew this about me,
they wouldn't love me.
Or they're gonna leave me or they're
gonna, you know, be unfaithful or
whatever it is. And I think it's just to
have someone who you tell everything to
before you get to that point, where
you're locked in in a
marriage is really important.
Yeah. And did he also share with you as
much as you shared with him before you
got married and share his baggage and his
what his past issues or whatever he'd
gone through? Was he open with you?
Mm hmm. I think that first night, we told
each other, everybody we had ever dated
and things like that. But in terms of
family things or some more personal
things, I think that came out more in our
relationship. Not so much that first
night, I was like, Yeah,
question on that, though. So you were
entering it from a position of not having
a lot of trust towards people, right? And
in some ways, you and in the color are
similar in that. And I would probably at
least from all outside and viewing I've
the perception, I was pretty stable, I,
my parents were together, they, you know,
and it sounds like he was, were you guys
almost opposites attracting in a sense?
Was he kind of a stable force? And, or
was there some kind of a
relationship between him and his family? Was there some extra not going into his
world? But you know, was there some was
he able to share and relate or just more
just understand, I guess?
I think more understanding. Okay. And he
was kind of just like a sturdy, steady,
level headed, yeah, place that I could
always come back to still to this day,
he's he will always be he's very
predictable. He'll always just be like
strong and steady. And that's what I
needed. I don't think I could have had
somebody with as much as I could have had.
I think that would be really hard for me.
Although we could relate potentially, I
don't know, long term, that that would be
somebody that I could be with. So he's
almost already healed. And he's helping,
he helped you kind of heal. Yeah, 100%.
Yeah, we have a long comment.
Yeah, because that's anyone who's
listened to our past episodes, our
earlier episodes, I go into this. And
that's very similar to Brian nice
marriage. And we've been married almost
31 years and together 33. So it's it's it
works. As long as I would say as long as
whether it's the manner of the woman
that's coming from the stable background,
as long as they truly are stable, and
they truly are, they
understand you get you accept you.
Then I think it works. It's it's if
people, I think sometimes people try to
come across as the strong and stable, and
maybe haven't totally healed themselves
or acknowledge that they do have some
deep rooted issues. And then later on the
relationship those come out. And that's
kind of a jump scare and can derail
things not always. So but I think if that
person is fairly self aware, and they
truly are coming from a very stable
place, then they can
100% be that they're not.
100% be that the person for someone who's
coming from a background of maybe
abandonment issues or instability trust
issues. So yeah, you know, I don't know
if you'd agree on that.
I agree. And I think too, it's, I think
there's some, I don't know, save your
complex a little bit that sometimes men
specifically can have. And so I think you
have to be on the lookout for that too.
Just knowing that somebody might say
like, Oh, yeah, you know, I'm so sorry,
but and kind of treat you like you're
less than and then they're gonna have
that power, you know, imbalance. And you
have to be kind of on
the lookout for that too.
You were so right. And I think when men
do that, it's tied to their ego. And
they're they're feeding their ego by
quote unquote, saving this girl, this
woman. And I think a lot of times they
don't want her to heal, right? Because
they feel better that they have someone
they're taking care of. And then when she
heals, and starts to live her authentic
life and her full
life, they're threatened.
And that controls gone to the control is
gone. You're right. So it's it's that
fine line of trusting again, we go smart
girl. Very smart. Yeah, but it's a fine
line of being able to trust a man who
seems stable. But really, you know, don't
just assume make sure those intentions
are pure. Yeah,
that's, that's a tough one.
I got one other question. Did your
husband call your dad and ask for
permission? Yes, you did. Okay, he did.
We are both very like he, you know, walks
on the outside on the sidewalk. Yeah. In
terms of that was something that I had,
my mom told me with every guy that I had
broken up with her had broken up with me
to make a list on my phone, things that I
liked about the relationship and things
that were missing. And that once I got to
a certain point in my life, I wouldn't
want to just date just because I thought
they were attractive, I wanted them to
have these qualities. And one that I, you
know, had had in previous relationships
that I was really important to me in a
marriage was that chivalry like that,
that type of old, you know, old manners.
Yeah, yeah, no, it's important. I think
it's a strong basis for a relationship,
honestly. And I think it's up to
especially the moms in the relationship,
but the dads need to model it.
I think it's very important the fathers
model it. But the mothers need to also
show that they need to back that up and
show reinforce how women should be
respected. So it's a joint effort on the
parents part. But I think it's so
important 100%. And it was great advice
your mom gave you about making that list.
How old were you when she said, I was in
high school, I was I had just broken up
with my boyfriend. So I was 17. Yeah,
that's, that's really
great advice. So did you
get, did you have some girlfriends that
didn't support you when you decided to
get married, or they gave you pushback?
I don't in terms of my friends know, they
were probably the only ones who I didn't
get pushback from, because I think our
friends just saw, he was my best friend,
and I was his best friend, and they just
saw the love and saw how much he
supported me. And I think especially, you
know, my best friend, I've been best
friends with since high
school, who we went to UF together
too, she really saw the whole
relationship. And she was like, you know,
you finally found someone who can be
there for you. And like, you're always
taking care of other people. And now I
have someone who can take care of you. So
yeah, they were fully supported.
Mainly family that was a little like,
what are you doing? You know, I know for
me, my mom so badly had wanted me to
travel and have this young 20s life. But
because of my back, my
childhood, that's the last
thing I wanted. I just wanted stability
and to start a family. So but as hard as
parents, we have these dreams, you know,
and but then it's understanding this,
this is their life and
letting them go forward. So
how old were you then
when, when you got engaged?
I was 21. Okay, I got engaged in May on
May 6. And we got married a few months
later, September 1. Yes, it was that was
the other thing. It wasn't just that we
were engaged at 21 and 22. Yeah, it was
that we were then getting
married, you know, a few months later.
Yeah. But you knew you knew. Okay, so
where did you get married? Now in your
hometown in my hometown in the church I
grew up in. Oh, wonderful.
And was it a big wedding?
It was probably like 115 120 people.
That's decent. And his family came over
from Tampa soon. Yeah. Okay. And so you
guys settled in your town and use I think
you had said you were working but he was
still going to
school. Was that down here?
That was up in Gainesville. So we got
married down here. And then we went back
up to Gainesville. We
were there for about a year.
And what were you doing up there?
I was a preschool teacher. I was working
with babies. Okay, wonderful. And then he
finished his education, graduated, and
you guys moved down to where you are now.
He actually didn't graduate. So we moved
in the fall, he had one more class and
was kind of he was unable to he had to
take the class in person and we had
already moved down here. And so there was
a whole kind of hold up there. Okay. And
then COVID happened. And the requirement
for it to be in person got removed.
So I actually signed him up without him
knowing and didn't tell him until after
syllabus week. So he
didn't have the option. No way.
And he did the class every day. He was
like, I can't believe signing up this
class. He did it and he graduated and he
I said, you have one more. Yes, like you
can do this. You know, man, that's
awesome. You did that.
Because he would have regretted it.
He would have like you knew, and you had
his back there. So and I guess the timing
is perfect with COVID that
he could do that online. So
Oh, gonna be the only opportunity.
Really? Yeah, 100%. So when
you guys move back down here,
question though, before we get out of
Gainesville, when you left your hometown
went to Gainesville, you start a new
life, right? Did you reinvent yourself in
any way? It's as part of that. And you
probably got new
friends and you could go out
anonymously. But did you do anything big
that reinvented yourself
or you know what I'm saying?
I don't know about big. I never really
went out down here. I never like went to
parties. I was never really invited to
parties. People were always scared. I was
gonna snitch. Yeah. So I didn't do any of
that in high school. And so going out in
Gainesville was the first time I really
went out. Yeah, that would be I think
like the biggest jump,
I would say. Yeah. Okay. So when you were
in high school, would you have gone out
and partied if you had been included? I
wouldn't have gone crazy. I think I would
have probably just physically gone to a
party and just to more hang out with
friends and be social not to, of course,
you know, right, get drunk and but then
you've but you feel, or factually, that
you weren't included because
of that risk people felt. So
which is so unfair. It's so unfair. But
that's not what happened to my brother.
My brother did not have that experience
at all. People weren't,
you know, they wanted him.
I could be the life of the party. Yeah.
Yeah. So do you think that is
misogynistic? What happened there is
because you were a girl.
I think because I was a girl and because
people just thought I was this. I mean, I
literally I remember someone saying
you're just stuck up goody two shoes. You
know, you're just gonna get everybody in
trouble. Like people
thought I was sending.
I don't know. I don't know what they
thought I was doing. Right. I had people
blocking me on social media because they
thought that I was snitching on them. I
don't care to do that. Also, I had all
this stuff going on with my family.
Right. You guys and you're not what I'm
concerned about. Right, right, right. But
so the misconception there is completely
assumed. And you know how high school can
be a middle school and high school can be
where once something's out there. Oh,
yeah. It's hard to. And you that brings
me back to what we talked about earlier.
You probably didn't feel like you had the
freedom to defend yourself or defend your
reputation. So things just had to be out
there. Right. And then everyone could
just assume but you really there was
there was no defense for you.
Did your sister go through the same
situation? Would you say
her experience was so different because
she was an athlete. Okay, so she had her
lifestyle. Everything was just totally
different than mine. Okay. And then what
about your little brother?
He, I don't know. He I feel like had a
lot more physical freedom. Like our
parents restrict her with us. Yeah, that
makes sense. Last one. That's typical.
Dylan came in after
midnight last night. Yeah.
You know, the common park in the
neighborhood here. And we wouldn't let
our other two go there. Probably until
they were in high school. No seventh
grade. I remember seven. He's been down
there since he was like nine. Yeah.
Rolling around town fishing last night
till midnight. So that's understandable
that your younger brother that's a
completely different situation. But wow.
So then you get to
school and not only do you
are you having this experience of people
knowing you and for you you feel and
you're trusting them and these real
relationships, these real friendships,
but you're actually able to go out and be
social and kind of quote unquote party a
little bit. Not that you went crazy, but
just to have that normal experience.
Yeah, just to be out. Wow.
Most good. Now, it's just a what a
wonderful time college must have been for
you and for totally different reasons
that other than other people may say.
What a life changing moment for you.
Yeah, you know, I can't even imagine.
Pivotal. Yeah. I could totally relate to
that in that I moved 3000 miles away and
was a totally different person. That's
why I kind of semi reinvented myself not
reinvented, but took on things I would
want to do as opposed to what I was sort
of prescribed to do.
And the small little town I was in. But
the question I have is, did your your
friend group probably completely shifted
that right? Are your best buddies right
now more from your college years or your
hometown squad? Yeah, so your buddies.
I'm trying to be hip.
No.
Mark. Yeah.
So I have a best friend from freshman
year in high school who we've stayed all
the way through friends. Besides that, I
have two friends, a guy friend that I've
been friends with
since high school as well.
Who we stay in touch. He lives out of the
States. We don't physically see each
other a lot, but still good friends and
hell, you know, he met my baby and
everything like, and then another friend
from high school who we don't
really talk super regularly.
But I feel like I've met my besides my
close, close friend from high school, my
best friend. I feel like I've met my
girls like my my girls as more in my 20s.
You're tried.
And it's I've always, always longed for
that. I feel like I never had it. There
were a lot of a girl I thought was my
best friend who was definitely not so
that happens. Yeah. And that was hard
losing a friend, losing somebody who
you've had in your life.
Since you're four and not having them is
it feels like worse than a breakup. It's
so hard. Yeah. So finding those women and
having these women who've just been
around me and been supporting me through
so much has been life changing.
Were those the same women you met in
college? Are these college friends?
College friends, the triplets. Yes. And
then I think even post college, I'm one
of the girls I talked to every single
day, we actually went to high school
together, we had overlapping friends, but
we weren't super close. But we both
became moms within two months of each
other. So we literally
voice memo every day.
20. I love voice memo. And when you
become a mom, voice memo is so vital
because you really can't get on the
phone. Nope, you can't know, even at my
age with with my kids the age they are.
But then voice memo voice memo. So nice.
You'll hear the dogs barking in the
background. Our toddlers will be
screaming at the same time. I can't hear
what you're saying. Because my kids
screaming and hers is screaming in the
background. But it's just, we just
understand each other. And
we're just in it together.
And then you have the inflection and the
voice memo. Whereas in text, you can't
get that right. So it's so just to go
back a little bit to the friend that you
knew since you were four. Did that end
around the same time as your parents
getting divorced? Or was it later?
The nail in the coffin was her not coming
to my wedding. Okay, so it was officially
I feel like through high school, she
wasn't as good of a friend. I knew I
would do things for her that it just
wasn't reciprocated. Yeah, but I think I
have a really hard time. Like I said
earlier, I give people the benefit of the
doubt. And I really don't like losing
people. And I felt like I had lost a lot
of people. And I
thought she was someone that
would maybe turn around. And then I
could, you know, I just didn't want to
let her go. That was maybe really sad.
And we also were living close to each
other went to the same school, it would
have been kind of a lot we were, you
know, yeah, attached to everyone
associated as two of us as best friends.
Right, right, right. So if I had cut that
friendship off, then I think it would
have been just kind of another change
that I couldn't really handle.
No, that makes sense. And I think, as
women, as we have friends, a lot of times
when we have a friend like that, someone
we that has been so invested in our life,
it does take a while to let them go
because you know, once you do, you can't
go back. And, but then you do reach a
point in your life where your time is so
valuable. And your priorities change. And
you realize this isn't serving me in any
way. And in so many ways, it's
hurting me. I need to let this go. And
it's sad. And there's, you mourn. But in
hindsight, it's the healthy decision,
which I don't know if you've gotten to
that point yet, where you can settle with
it and feel this was this is the healthy
decision for where I'm at in my life.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have. There are times
though, like recently, I just like, man,
it stinks. It stinks to lose someone that
you knew for that long.
Yeah, we grew up with.
And you never know what's gonna happen in
life. But you have to keep moving
forward. You know, so okay, so you guys
then settle in the home?
I got another question. He does.
Sorry. Well, you're looking at you're
looking at me. We've lost over something.
Okay. The triplets.
I've never met triplets.
But where are they from? Are they like,
how did that happen?
But they all went to UF together,
apparently. Did you guys live in a quad?
And there were three of
them and it was you were like,
so they decided they wanted to live
separately their first year, they all
made the joint decision. They also had an
older sister who was one year above. So
they automatically they could have very
well just lived together and gotten a
condo and you know, been just them, but
they really wanted to kind of, you know,
fan out a little bit.
So they each got roommates we met on, you
know, the Facebook roommate page. I don't
know if people do that anymore. But I
don't I don't think
so. I don't I don't know.
Actually, my brother didn't for college.
They I think they just I don't know what
they do now. It's something with it's got
to be something social media based. But I
don't think it's because none of them are
on Facebook. I think anymore.
It's like, oh, it's even a jump scare for
me. I'm the age demographic, but it gets
it's like a dumpster fire, honestly. But
I think they must do something. I don't
know my brother because he's in college.
He said that they send out like a little
survey the apartment's well, so I think
they kind of do that and the apartment
will match you. So there's no talking to
people unless unless you know the person
and your friends with them and you sign
at least together. But
well, it's almost gone full circle.
Because when we we operated, we operated
we didn't want in one of the episodes. I
think I mentioned I wrote my potential
roommate a letter. And I was telling our
daughter Kai and her friends that in the
episode and they were blown away.
Like, what do you mean? Right? What did
you write? I think it was multi pages.
Wow. And then she wrote me back the shit
out of somebody. And then we got on a
landline and talked on the phone. They
were blown away. So but that was it. And
then I think it went through the whole
Facebook thing where
they get to talk, talk, talk and know
everything about each other. Now it
sounds like it's kind of back to not
knowing really. So that's really
interesting. Just sidetracked that that
has gone back. So anyways.
Yeah, so the triplets. So they actually
went to the high school that my husband
went to. Oh, they knew him. So that's why
he was there that night that we met.
So you could get some tea on them too.
Yeah, they bet him for you. Triple
vetted. Yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. And
they're and do they live near you now? Or
are they back in their hometown?
They're back where they're from. They
moved after college, and then they all
recently moved back to their hometown to
be all together. But they're are they
part of the voice memo group to
have a group chat. Yeah, talking to one
of them the other day. Yeah, well, we'll
voice memo each other and or call.
Because it's I try, I set a rule for
myself for once a week, I send one of my
friends a text just, hey, I'm thinking
about you, what's going on, give me your
update. And typically, they know I'm a
big voice memo girl. So they'll voice
memo back and then I'll voice memo them,
kind of fill them in on me, because I
just feel like life gets away from you so
fast. And there are so many people where
you're like, Oh, I haven't
talked to them in months. But that one
one a week is very doable.
So that's kind of something I
that's amazing. I commend you for that
because you are so right. Because it
truly stay connected with people. It's
knowing that day to day or that week to
week stuff that's going on in their
lives. Then when the big things happen,
you were kind of there as it was all
building up. But the fact that you find
you take the time, you make the time to
reach out to your friends like that is
amazing. Because everyone I will tell you
this, no matter what
age you are, everyone,
is quote unquote, busy. No one is not
busy. Right. So when people say they're
busy, and I catch myself, because I will
start to and I'm like, don't say that
because everyone's busy. And everyone has
priorities. So to take that time to make
that time for your friends, even if it's
that one text a week, is awesome, that
you're doing that, you know, and that
they obviously are
reciprocating. Well, you know,
one way, Jen brought that up. previous,
our guests brought that up how she and
she's our age, she's, she's been the
initiator. So she has these relationships
that are 3040 years going, partly because
she took the initiative. So I think
you're on to some now you're definitely
wise beyond your years in so many ways.
But okay, so you guys, then settle into
when you settled here, were you both
working then once he finished the class,
I guess it's COVID, right?
So so he was working. And then his job,
they kind of shut it down during COVID.
So COVID, and then I was done with my
post back program, and I had some time
before grad school. So it was the only
time COVID was the only time it was just
us two, I remember looking at him and
thinking, when are we we're never going
to get this in our lives ever again,
where it's just us two in our apartment
together. We don't have
school, we don't have work.
Like, we had so much fun together. I bet.
It's funny to hear people not funny. But
some people say, you know, I couldn't
handle my roommate anymore after COVID. I
had to get out of there or whatever.
Yeah. But I just remember we would just
laugh together. We learned new random
things together. We played so many card
games. Yeah, just, I don't know. I just
remember being like a kid
with no responsibilities.
Yeah, I think that there are people that
look back on the COVID time and loved it.
I mean, and taking away all the sadness.
So I need I need to put that out there.
But I know for us, like all of our kids
were here. And we played games, we did,
we did a lot of fun family time. We had
to celebrate our oldest son's birthday
here. And so we set up each room of our
house was a different themed bar.
Love that.
And we did a bar crawl in our house. So
fun. And then I had all his frat brothers
zoom in at the end. And he talked to
them. Yeah, yeah. But we were home. Yeah,
you know, but so when I look back, it
isn't all bad because we did it's that
quality time. So I think COVID did offer
people some of that. And horrible,
horrible time too. But there was, you
have to be realistic. There was that time
where people had more quality time
together. So so it's probably cool for
you guys, because you're
married, you're newlyweds.
And you get this special time together.
So it's very cool. So then did you guys
go back to work? Once COVID, well,
Florida COVID is totally different
experience. The rest of the world. Let's
be real. But um, so it
started in March, it was over.
Yeah. But did you when did you guys start
picking back up and working?
And when did that time end?
I think he went back to work in April or
May. So it was probably a few weeks there
where it was just, yeah, you know,
hanging, just hanging. And then were you
both working? Did you
eventually were you both were working?
No, I was not working. I guess was
babysitting here and there. But I had
that just a few months before starting
grad school. So I was kind of just
And was that online?
Relaxing. No, it was in person. Actually,
with COVID, the first semester was
online. Okay. And then the next semester,
I believe we were in
person for for our our clinic.
And then how long was that?
That was two full
years. Yeah, two full years.
So and that was to get your speech
pathologist, a master's. Yes. And that so
he's working and you were going to
school. So you were gone
during the days. And then you guys,
I was, I had a lot of lectures online. So
I had, like, I remember on Mondays, I
think we had six hours straight of
lectures. Yeah, a lot of computer time,
which was something I wasn't really used
to, compared to, you know, undergrad
being fully in person. Yeah.
And then he was
working. So he worked nights.
So you guys were opposite a little bit.
Yeah. And then once you got your degree,
did you start working?
I did. Yeah, I started working. It took a
little bit of time to get my license. The
state of Florida takes a little bit to
process it. And then I started working in
a skilled nursing facility.
Okay. Oh, so you weren't working with
children. I just assumed
you're working with children.
I switched a few months later, I switched
to kids, but I was in a snaf initially.
So you're working with elderly patients.
Yep. Were they like, did they have
Alzheimer's dementia? Or what was why did
they need the speech therapy?
So a lot of them, it was actually falls,
like they had been discharged from the
hospital, they weren't ready to go home.
They needed physical therapy. A lot of
times, you know, I walk in, I say, Hi,
I'm grace. I'm a speech pathologist. And
they say, I talk fine, I can eat fine.
And I say, I know, you know, I just got
to ask you a few questions. And then a
lot of times people don't realize we also
work on memory strategies
and cognition as a whole.
And once they realize I'm the fun one who
brings them food, they usually open up a
little bit more. And yeah, so that a lot
of them had had falls like orthopedic
injuries and had also had maybe some
memory problems from, you know,
medication that they had
been on or car accident.
They had language disorders like aphasia.
Or if they had a stroke, would you work
with patients with a stroke? And so would
you bring them goodies from you would
bring them in, like special treats.
So to assess their swallowing, we have
different, you know, food items. And one
of them is like, graham crackers and
applesauce. And I would always make a
joke. It's like a pie when you do the
graham crackers in the applesauce.
So that's sometimes a little bit better.
I mean, they get the same food pretty
regularly. If you're familiar with kind
of hospital esque food, sometimes
applesauce and graham crackers is very
exciting. So right, right, right. Jello
or pudding or whatever.
It's pretty good to me.
You're gonna try it out.
I never would have thought about a speech
pathologist in a skilled nursing center.
Me neither. I was thinking that it's
you're a speech pathologist with memory
strategies. It's a fascinating concept.
How did what's the approach there? What
is what do you say
trying to rehabilitate?
Yeah, so there's no way you can actually
improve. You can't make someone's memory
better, right? If the brain is altered in
that way, but you can teach them
strategies to incorporate into their
daily routine. So I had a patient who
their goal was to go back to work after
they got discharged and in order to go
back to but his memory was, you know,
impacted. So I taught some strategies
where when you're on
the phone, he worked in
business. So he's on the phone, can take
notes instead of just thinking, Oh, I'm
gonna remember they're saying I'm just
taking notes, having a calendar where you
write everything down, setting timers on
your phone for medication, things like
that, where you and I might think about
them day to day. But even now, I mean, I
have to, I can't remember dates for
appointments and stuff. I don't put it in
right when I'm standing in front of that
desk. I will not remember
when I walk out to my car.
Yeah.
The relationship back to speech, the
speech aspect of it? Or are we thinking
of speech in the wrong terms?
So there's a common misconception, I
would say people don't realize how much
speech pathologists do. So it's speech
language pathology. So language. And
there's also cognition under that. So the
way that our brain is working, and then
there's also swallowing under that. So
those are things that people don't when
you say speech pathologist, people think,
Oh, I'm in a school working
kids, working with kids on their
R's and L's. But you can be in hospitals,
and skilled nursing facilities, home
health, all sorts of different.
I guess that's really true at an academic
or clinical level. Speech is highly
complex, and then incorporates right
cognition and vision
and hearing and speaking.
Yeah, so that language aspect is really
what is more related to the cognition, I
would say like those are
kind of closer together.
Are there preventative things people can
do to proactively ward
off cognitive decline?
Yeah, so I know you
actually had an audiologist on.
Room on the couch.
Do a duel. Yeah. So that hearing loss is
actually a really, really, really big
contributor in terms of cognitive
decline. So people are feel like the
Now I'm blanking on my words, the
negative association kind of with hearing
aids, I think is improving a little bit
more people are realizing it's more
embarrassing for me to say what what what
or to miss what people are saying that it
is for someone to see oh,
they've got a hearing aid.
Yes.
So if you are unsure about your hearing,
getting your hearing tested, physical
activity is huge. Walking, talking to
people just doing things that really
exercise your brain. Yeah.
Those day to day activities, those
routines are huge with elderly, somebody
who you know, if they have friends who
want to walk or they have bingo or they
have an activity that they're doing.
Being social, probably the older you get,
the more you're surrounded by people
helps prevent cognitive
decline, I would think.
Yeah, you know, you're exercising that
brain. You're not just, you know, sitting
on your couch and watching TV all day,
you're doing things that are
pushing your brain to work.
And to and to pay attention to the social
nuances to the social expectations when
you're out and about it kind of challenge
it keeps your brain challenging, keeping
those things fresh. That makes sense.
We got a guy who handles hearing loss.
Yeah, yeah, we do watch that episode. But
so then how long were you in the skilled
nursing center before you switched over
to working with children?
Just a few months. I was only there for a
few months. And then I switched to a
private practice for pediatrics.
And what were you
doing with children there?
Um, lots of kids who had autism, or some
other genetic diseases, sometimes just
that's where a lot of times you focus on
the speech. So the pronunciation of the
words, the articulation, also kids who
may have a little bit of
a delay in their language.
And so when you're talking about a kid
who's, you know, not following directions
in school, a teacher might think this kid
is just being stubborn. They're not
listening. Really, they
probably have a language delay.
And they're not understanding the fact
that you're saying, put the toys away,
grab a marker and come sit down. They're
not processing that they're getting stuck
on the put the toy away.
They're putting the toy away. They're
standing on the corner of the rug and
everyone else is sitting down and the
teacher's like, that kid's not listening.
Interesting.
So that's something you would see a lot.
How, how do you help a child like that?
That they can only hear that first step.
So breaking it down to those one step
directions. So put the toy away, you let
them put the toy
away, then get the marker.
Okay, then come to the table. So it's
three separate things
instead of a multi step direction.
So if a teacher has a child like that in
their classroom, then it's is it you
communicating with the teacher? This is
how you need to give the student
direction. So the teacher needs to
acclimate for that student.
Ideally, yes. So we we it depends on how
the school does services. But if it's if
the child is receiving services in a
school, they'll get pulled from the
class. Usually, sometimes
it can be in a group setting.
So there are other students more of like
a social group, not as much of a one on
one. I was in a preschool where two days
a week, so we would
do one on one services.
And then you go back to the teacher and
you tell them what, you know, you found
that worked and give them strategies. And
I found it's very, very important to a
lot of times, you know, teachers, their
job is very, very hard.
They're managing 20 something kids.
They can't really have, you know, an
individual set of directions for each and
every kid. So establishing a good
relationship with that teacher from the
start from that first session is really
important. Expressing that you understand
how hard their job is expressing that
you're there to make their life easier
and not give them more to do.
And also also asking them if there's
anything that you can do to make their
life easier. They're
usually more receptive.
And do you stay in the classroom and
observe the child and even help kind of
get that going a little bit?
For the first evaluation, typically, if
it's in the school, if the evaluation to
the school, you would observe them in the
in the room, you talk to the teacher, you
talk to the parent, you talk to any other
kind of teacher or person that the child
interacts with to get information and
then you directly will
observe the kid in the classroom.
And is that like, is that a maturity
thing? And maybe this is a synonymous
term, but developmental thing. I don't,
you know, I don't know what the line is
there. But what is happening?
The root cause. Is there a common root
cause for a language delay?
It's hard to say. It depends. Every kid
is different. But so sometimes it could
be autism. It could be that there's
something else going on neurologically.
It could also just be that that child
just needs a little bit more support.
It might just be a little bit of a of a
they just need a little bit more. They
need someone to pay a little bit more
attention to them to kind of help them
and give them the support that they need.
Because they're there gets us to a
certain point where if a child's not
receiving services, they're falling more
and more and more behind.
As a compounding effect, I would think
what what each group
are you talking about?
In my head, I'm thinking about kind of
early elementary school and preschool,
because that's who I was with when I was
going to those preschools.
And then but also, I mean, it could be in
high school, middle school, there can be
there are lots of things. A big thing we
would work on with middle school and high
school is a lot of those
kids will have undiagnosed ADHD.
And so they have a really hard time talk
about cognition, managing their tasks.
It's too stressful for them. They can't,
they're not turning in their homework
assignments. They're,
you know, missing class.
They're not, they can't, they're showing
up late to school, their laundry is not
done. There are things, the day to day
tasks that are too much.
And those sim, similar to memory, where
you give those kids
strategies on what to do.
And then also refer for them to get
evaluated to possibly get a diagnosis, if
that's something the
parents are looking for.
That's, that's something we would kind of
see in those later years that, you know,
something's not necessarily wrong with
the child. They just need some extra
support so that they
don't fall for the behind.
Yeah, no, that's amazing.
Do you find that, um, Pete, that like,
let's say with high schoolers or young
adults that have ADD or ADHD, uh, that
the tasks build up and then they get to a
point where they're so overwhelmed, they
just are paralyzed and can't
move forward with anything.
Um, and so they're kind of
existing in a state of chaos.
And so what, if somebody were to come,
like, what would be the solution? I guess
what you said it is, um, start with just
one thing at a time, like teaching them,
how do you teach them how
to take on regular tasks?
I think building up that confidence is
huge. Um, especially boys, I think, I
mean, with girls too, but I think with
boys, there's less of a
desire to ask for help.
Um, and so I think just starting with
small things that, you know, that they
can do, you know, making a phone call and
something, something really simple.
Making a calling their dad, calling their
mom and asking them a question, right?
And you're like, okay, that's not
something they're struggling with, but
that's something that's going to build
their confidence a little bit more.
I physically in grad school would write
everything down and I had a paper
planner. I don't know if kids are doing
that these days, maybe
Google calendar or something.
I don't know if they're doing anything. I
really don't know. I don't know. I don't
know. I don't, I know that our youngest
son does not use a planner and then he
was given planners in middle school.
I don't know if any of his friends used
it, which I like you, I use a planner and
I write it every single day.
Yeah. Um, but I don't even know if our
older two who are closer to your age use
planners. Um, our daughter might, but,
um, so I don't, I don't know if that's a
personality thing or a generational
thing, but I don't know
how people survive without.
I couldn't, we have my husband and I have
an app on our phone called time tree that
we put in doctor's appointments, work
schedule, everything, because it's too
much there. You can't
hold it all in the brain.
And those are things that are adding to
your mental load when you don't need to
be. So those are the strategies that you
need to implement so that when you need
your memory for things, it's not like
this is adding on top of it.
This is something you don't need to worry
about. That's on your phone. That's good.
It's so true because there is so much
going on in life. So you have all those
day to day to do so unpack them onto your
planner, right? Take
them out of your brain.
Put them, because once I do that, it
leaves my brain and then I open up space
for things I need to be worrying about in
that or thinking about
in that present moment.
So you're right. Whereas somebody has
ADD, um, it's just teaching them, take
your task, unpack it somewhere so that
you now have open space to focus on.
The immediate thing you need to work on.
Right. And so, yeah, if that was not
caught in elementary school, middle
school, high school, you have young
adults that are out there in the world
trying to function and maybe feeling like
they're failing at life.
When really they just were never taught
the skills they need to organize. We're
all dealing with these tasks every day.
So it's just maybe they weren't taught
those skills on how to cope with that.
Right. That's something that just sitting
down and, you know, okay, let's take out
your folder. Have you have we opened your
folder yet today? Let's take it out and
let's look at everything.
And so I think that's part of it too, is
showing that those daily tasks aren't
scary. They're not something to be scared
of. They're very tangible. You can handle
them. And that's part of
that confidence building.
Now, do you think that your generation,
the Gen Z, I would say generation, the
early 20s, mid 20s, do you think they
have more anxiety than other generations?
Or do you think they just feel more
comfortable expressing it?
Or do you think some of it is this, where
they were not taught how to manage the
basic load of life. And now that they're
in life, they're completely overwhelmed
and have anxiety about things even making
a doctor's appointment.
I think it's probably a little bit of
everything, which I know is not super
helpful. But I think to something about
that Gen Z and younger generations is the
technology is so it's taking up so much
of the day to day, so much of the brain.
You're also looking at what everyone
else's life is. And you're like, wow,
they're doing so much. What's the point?
And even turning in my homework
assignment, because I'm never gonna get
that mansion at that YouTube browser,
whatever, you know what I mean?
So I think there is part of that. Also,
because we have so much technology and
everything is at our fingertips, there's
almost this. It's absent, like using that
technology to our benefit, you know,
using those apps, using that Google
Calendar, setting those
alarms, all of those things.
It's almost like it's so accessible that
it's not being used in
the most beneficial way.
Yeah, no, I didn't I didn't even think
about that. But you're right. Technology.
That's probably one of the things that's
different than other
generations that are older.
There's so many tools nowadays to
accomplish what you're talking about. But
then I leverage properly or correctly or
to the best of their ability.
And the overload and the FOMO and the
comparison and and all of it constant
mental stimulation.
It's overwhelming. Yeah,
I find myself overstimulated. I mean, the
amount of times that I don't even listen
to the radio in the car, if I'm in the
car, if I get a car ride by myself, that
my baby or my husband
or dog, the radio's off.
That's like, that is you time, girl. That
is you time. Oh, my gosh.
So funny you say that, because Nathan and
I, if we're in the car, I don't turn on
the music. The first thing he does, he's
like, I, how do you do that? I'm like,
dude, it's quiet. It's quiet. I mowed the
lawn this morning. And normally, I had my
headphones in my pocket.
And I was like, I'm just going to listen
to the birds and the lawnmower and just,
you know, I want to turn it off.
It's from the break of stimulation. Yeah,
it's giving and that is probably
something that is going to be a whole I
could see be a whole new thing to kind of
swing the pendulum back a little bit
because this Gen Z and especially younger
Gen Z is all technology and
scrolling and their brain.
So tips to unplug, I bet are going to be
a new thing where you need to have this
much time. And these are the ways you
need in order to balance your brain back
out. So to get it not so overstimulated.
So I have a question on the kids who are
working with, they make it mislabeled or
misunderstood as maybe not being smart or
immature, but maybe they are overwhelmed.
Right. Did you find, though, that some of
them are kind of quiet geniuses?
Was there an element of that?
There is, I think, because a lot of times
if there if I mean, kids know what even
my daughter, who's a year and a half, she
knows if, you know, they listen to
everything, they pick up on things.
If teachers are constantly in the
classroom, oh, that kid just doesn't
listen. Johnny just doesn't listen. You
know, whoever doesn't
listen. They just, oh, so dumb.
Things like that, like these kids, their
confidence is plummeted. And these are
four or five, six year olds, even even a
middle school or high schooler.
Yeah. You know, so having someone who
finally will sit there and say, hey, what
are you experiencing?
What are you feeling?
Someone who's a little bit older, you
know, or just telling like one of my
phrases that I would tell my little
preschool kids was I can do hard things
because they would just shut down at the
I mean, taking a cap off a marker, even
though they could physically do it.
It would be too overwhelming because
they're used to being five steps behind
compared to their peers.
Yeah, just encouraging those kids and
being kind of that person who will speak
up for them, saying positive things in
front of them to their teacher, to their
parents saying, you know, they are
listening. Kids are listening.
Yeah, I don't think they're tuning out
the world. There's maybe just more going
on. And that might be the misconception.
It's not like they're ignoring you or
didn't hear you. They're just processing
it differently. And you're tapping into
that. It's a cool thing.
And validating them and seeing them and
helping them feel under someone gets
them, even if you're still also figuring
out where they're at, you at least are
taking that moment to be like, OK, I know
things you're thinking differently.
And and I want to hear what you're going
through. And let's help. I'm here to help
you. Just that probably
makes such a difference.
Yeah. How long are you still doing that?
Or how long did you work with the kids?
So I worked all the way up until the time
I left for when I was going to get birth.
Oh, OK. Yeah. OK. So
you so you got pregnant.
So I found out I was. Let's go back.
We're on tangents. Yeah. So did did you
guys want to start a family early?
I that was part of the concern everybody
had, I think, was that I was just going
to get pregnant and, you know, I was
going to be so young and never have my
own career and all of that stuff.
But I knew I didn't want to get pregnant
right away. I wanted to
have time with just us.
So we had said probably around five years
we would maybe would either be
there or I would be pregnant.
So I got pregnant. Right around right
after graduation from grad school and
then about a month later, I had a
miscarriage, which was devastating.
Yeah. We didn't necessarily
plan to get pregnant that time.
There was no planning at all, but it was
more of like a we'll see what happens.
And yeah, I was fully I mean, you know,
once you find out you're pregnant, your
whole future, all you're imagining is
life with that baby.
Yes. So having that gone was just crazy.
Yeah. Yeah. How how would you.
I'm sure there's many women that can
relate to this, unfortunately.
But how would you describe to someone
that experiences a woman?
Because I think people are scared to ask
and I think people are
scared to talk about it.
And I think it's an important thing. I
think people should feel comfortable
talking to women who've gone through this
and not be scared to
bring it to want to know.
Yeah, I think my generation has I feel
like it was very taboo.
Maybe I don't know
about your generation. Yes.
For that for sure. Yes. Yeah. I assumed
your generation, but
I wasn't 100 percent.
But one and four women have had a
miscarriage. So that is very common.
And I actually one of a girl I went to
high school in college with had posted
about her miscarriage on Instagram.
And because of her sharing, I felt
comfortable to reach out to
her when I went through it.
And it made me feel less alone.
There were multiple women who had texted
me that they, you know, a year later, six
months later, that they had had a
miscarriage and they wanted to talk to me
because they I had shared about it on
social media because I wanted to kind of.
Just let other women know that they were
not alone. It feels very isolating.
It feels just
devastating, very frustrating.
It feels like it's your fault. It feels
like your body to me, it
felt like my body failed me.
Like I was supposed to carry a baby.
And I also do have some anxiety.
And I felt so calm the whole pregnancy,
though it was short.
I felt like everything was under control.
I felt like God, just this baby was
supposed to be there.
So everything had to be fine.
So it didn't make sense.
I felt anxious when I felt like I was
when I have known it was coming.
Right. Instead of being so calm.
So that just felt like.
It just felt misleading, kind of like,
why would I even why was I getting why
would I get pregnant?
Why would I go through this if I wasn't
going to have this baby?
That makes sense.
Totally not fair. It just.
I don't know. It was just crazy.
And it's a shock.
It's not like to your point,
there isn't a warning, right?
You just have it. It's not
like you know it's coming.
Right. So you're humming
along and then it happens.
And so it's such a shocking
loss because you're so in it.
And then you have to adjust to that loss
and change the
trajectory of your life again
while still mourning the loss of a child.
I think that's something that some people
don't fully grasp is women who've had
miscarriages have lost a child.
Yeah. And so they are
dealing with child loss.
And that will never leave
them for the rest of their life.
And I think that that deserves to be
honored more personally.
And I hope your generation does change
the narrative on that for generations
coming up behind you.
You know, and that women feel comfortable
sharing, talking, supporting, supporting.
And it'll help the men in their life too
and help boys and men
understand what women go through.
Because well, the men
go through the loss too.
Is that what you were about to say?
No, no, I'm curious. Why don't you girls
talk about it or women talk about it?
Why is it so taboo?
I'm as far as a
miscarriage for our generation Gen X.
It just it was one of
those things that it's sad.
It's like some people don't feel
comfortable talking about
death or when someone dies.
And it's something that the woman doesn't
in Gen X women didn't openly share.
And so you just didn't
talk kind of like menophiles.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, it's just our theme.
Yeah. The women before us didn't talk
about our mothers, our grandmothers.
We probably didn't even know how many
miscarriages the women in our family had.
They didn't tell you.
They just moved right along.
They just moved right along.
And you know, you come to find out, oh
no, and so and so had four miscarriages.
My mom had a couple I think before she
had me right between my sister and me.
I think what she said, two or three.
Two, I think. But you just found that out
in the last few years, right?
As an adult, it's not like you grew up in
your home knowing what
your mom was going through.
No. Right. Yeah.
So that's our generation.
And we're trying to change the narrative
on menopause right now.
And I'm hoping that your generation will
also change the narrative on
women who have miscarriages,
because I think women deserve to have
that space to grieve and
mourn and be respected.
And I think people should feel
comfortable talking about it.
Yeah. You know, people
also say really weird things.
Do you just when you were saying it's
losing a child, I had
someone say, oh, one of my friends,
you know, she gave birth and her baby
passed away a week later.
And I just think that
that's harder than a miscarriage.
And like there's a scale. Right.
But I think for some
people, they just don't.
They can't. You can't grasp.
It's so strange being pregnant.
It's like growing
this human in your body.
Yet you have no control.
I mean, you can eat the right things and
take your vitamins and, you know,
exercise safely and do certain things.
But ultimately, you have no
power over what's happening.
Yes. 100 percent.
And that's a strange, strange feeling.
It makes you so vulnerable because you
already love your baby.
Right. And so one thing about children is
when you become a parent or you get
pregnant, it starts right then.
You wear your heart on your sleeve and
then your your heart leaves.
Yeah. And you have to
pray to God every day.
They're OK. Like mine
are in Colorado right now.
But as soon as you get
pregnant, that vulnerability hits.
And I don't know if for men it hits as
soon as when the baby's handed to them.
That's always for my husband. Yeah.
And then they get more of what we've been
going through for the last nine months.
Yeah. It's like that feeling of you love
that baby, you know, and you you become a
mother the minute you become pregnant.
You know, and so when you lose the child,
it's a mother that's lost a child.
And I think that's the
narrative isn't quite connected.
It's I'm going to get shit
on for this, but it's it's.
I say that. But it's
easier for men because.
We're not carrying the child.
Our body's not going
through those changes.
Yeah. And to your point, you don't have
your child as a at least
for me and I get them out.
Take the lumps, whatever.
But once the doctor and nurse hands the
baby to you, it's like, oh,
now it's really, really real.
And what? Sure. We've, you know, you go
to the the ultra sound,
ultra sounds, you see the pictures, you
hear the heartbeat and
that stuff's amazing.
But it's different for men.
It is still the same because I mean, I
was thinking about the second I found out
I was pregnant, what I was eating.
I stopped drinking coffee.
I didn't run because I was nervous,
nervous about falling.
You know, my husband, when we so had the
miscarriage and then I
ended up getting pregnant again.
Was it soon after?
A lot sooner than I was
thinking it was going to be.
I remember my sister-in-law saying it
really helps to be pregnant by the due
date of the first baby.
And I remember when she said that to me,
I was I was just like, there's no way
that's going to happen.
I'm not going to be ready to have a baby
and be pregnant in six months.
There's just no way.
And I was like, it
feels wrong to get pregnant
before that baby was supposed to be here.
It feels like I'm trying to replace them.
It's just so and these are the things
where it's just so helpful to talk to
somebody else because you sound a little
crazy or you sound a little
dramatic or whatever it is.
People are like, what's the big deal?
You know, just get
pregnant, like just get pregnant.
Yeah. Yeah.
There's also a fear of
having another miscarriage.
I remember someone said to me, oh, I know
someone who had six miscarriages in a row
and then they had their baby.
And it's like, that's
supposed to make me feel right.
Right. Right now.
But I can have it.
I love your statement around
people say the weirdest thing.
Right. That's so true.
Yes. Coming from a place where they don't
know what to say and they're trying to
say something on the topic because they
think that that's going to help.
Yeah. But the thing about loss and the
thing about trauma is it's OK to just say
what you're going through really sucks.
It's really hard.
And I don't know what it's like, but I
just want you to know I'm here to support
you when I'm thinking about you.
You don't have to, you
know, reinvent the wheel there.
Like sometimes just knowing that you can
cry with me, you can laugh.
We can talk about stupid stuff.
We can forget and just, you
know, gossip if you want to.
Like whatever it is. Right. Right.
People want to fix things.
Yeah, I'm a fixer. So
that happened to her.
I'd say I'd come up with all kinds of
wild, crazy stuff to try to help.
Yeah. Try to help and try
to ward off more emotional.
Not tragedy, but just to try
to ward off more emotions more.
They want to make it better.
So but a lot. But so many
times that's not what we need.
How old were you when when that happened?
Let's see. I got to
do a little math here.
I was 26, I think maybe.
I mean, you're still young either way,
but either way, that's.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting
the fear of having another one.
So I would say when a
woman has a miscarriage,
it's very courageous
to get pregnant again,
because you're putting yourself back in
that hyper vulnerable place.
But this time, you know the risks. Yeah.
You don't know the risks the first time.
The first time you're just
like, this is pure bliss.
I'm growing a baby.
I mean, not necessarily you may be
nauseous and going
through all the things,
but you're still thinking about how
special it is to carry this life.
And then, yeah.
And then I knew I said to my husband,
I don't want to declare we're trying
again, because that feels very
like there's just a
lot of pressure on me.
I'm going to be really
stressed out and anxious.
And I don't want this to
feel like a chore of like,
we need to get pregnant right now.
You know, I just wanted it to kind of be
not whatever happens happens,
but just less.
Pressure, black and white. Yeah.
And also because people
then be what you would feel.
People are kind of wondering, like, did
you get pregnant this, you know,
maybe the people close to you.
So where you kept it private.
Yeah. So and so how long was it between
the time of the miscarriage
and you got pregnant?
Um, a few months.
I think I like my
hormones kind of settled down.
I and then I found out I
was pregnant, I think in no
early December.
So I had the miscarriage in September.
Oh, wow. So so how did you feel when you
found out you were pregnant?
Because I'm sure everyone
would think it's immediate.
Hundred percent celebration. Wonderful.
But were you was it a little mixed
because you had just had the miscarriage?
Yeah, I was so anxious.
I was really stressed.
And that's when I had reached
out to that girl who had shared
about her miscarriage from my high school
because she had a son.
And so I said, hey, just
wondering, how did you?
Because it was still really early.
I didn't want to tell
anybody who I was pregnant, really.
Like, how did you handle
being pregnant after a loss?
You know, I'm kind of trying
to mentally prepare for that.
And she said, I know this
sounds really, you know, funky,
but I wrote some affirmations on my
mirror and I would say them every morning
and they just really helped me.
And so that's what I did.
I wrote, she sent me some
that she said, and mine were
my body is doing everything right today.
I'm pregnant. You're
the best mom to your baby.
I think there was one more, but that just
helped me that today.
I'm pregnant, helped me so much because I
would just worry, OK,
what if I lose this baby tomorrow?
You know, what if I
go through this again?
It helped you stay in the present.
And then how long was it was
it till the second semester
that you finally eased your anxiety or
did you ever lose your anxiety?
The day of the birth.
I remember I always would think like, OK,
once we get to the point of viability,
I'll feel better once I get to the third
trimester, I'll feel better once I get
to the delivery room, I'll feel better.
I swear it was like the devil
was trying to pull on my heart
and just take my joy away because I would
go on Facebook and I would see
gave birth to a stillborn baby at 37
weeks when nothing was wrong.
The whole pregnancy
like video after video.
And I hadn't looked at that up.
I hadn't. It wasn't, you know, it was
just so I deactivated my social media
because I was like, this
is not doing me any good.
Yeah. And my OB was so relaxed, so
professional, but also so relaxed.
I remember the first appointment I was
like, I had some salad dressing
that had whey protein in it and I googled
it and you can't have whey.
Is my baby going to be OK?
And she looked at me and grabbed my hand
and said, you have to stop googling.
Yeah, you're going to
drive yourself insane.
You can have the salad dressing.
Yeah. You know, don't drink alcohol.
Yes. And don't eat raw fish.
But besides and manage your caffeine.
But besides that, like,
yeah, it's OK. It's OK.
So were you able to find
the joy in the pregnancy
by with all these little
tools that were given to you?
I think once she started moving,
I remember doing the kick counseling
down, drinking something cold,
laying down and counting and panicking.
And my husband would be like, she does
her dance routine every night at 3 a.m.
She's sleeping right now.
You know, he would just when we talk
about him being level
headed and grounded,
like he would just
bring me back down. Yeah.
And but helping her, it
helps a lot to have her move.
And I could feel her kick like, OK.
I also once we knew she
was a girl and once we knew
you're naming her the name I
had been set on since I was 13.
I would talk to her every
morning on my drive to work.
And that just helped me
just stay in the present.
Yeah. And just be kind of ground myself.
And how was your birth?
Was it pretty uneventful or were there
any major emergencies?
No, it was she came on her due date.
My water broke at first watch.
No way. Yeah, we were at practice.
Um, I went to the bathroom and I was
like, hey, I think my water broke.
And my husband said, well, the food just
got here and we're going to have to eat.
So just sit down.
Each of us, I like your husband.
He's my kind of guy.
You would say, oh, my gosh, so funny.
I was like, OK, I think we need boxes.
Can we get this to go?
He's my guy.
He would have boxed it all up and brought
it to the hospital at night.
But it was it was everything went OK.
Yeah, everything was good.
I she came relatively quickly.
How big was she?
715. Oh, yeah.
How long was she?
21 and a half.
She's long.
And so that moment when they handed.
We were you laughing at that?
Not I don't know if I've ever
heard how long was the baby.
It's always way.
Yeah. Oh, I know the way and the length.
Yeah, I don't know.
Oh, that's you don't forget that.
No, no, no, no, maybe
you didn't push the baby.
How was it that moment
when they handed her to you?
The best feeling in the world, just her
going on my chest, just feeling like.
Finally, like I could just
take a breath like she was there.
And yeah, it was just wild.
And then seeing my
husband's reaction where he
he just looked at her and
he was like, this is it.
Like, this is what I'm made to do.
Just be this little girl's dad.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's how would you describe to someone
what it's like to become a mother?
It's a love like no other you.
I have had a problem sticking up for
myself my whole life,
but I have never once had an issue
sticking up for my daughter
or setting boundaries
to benefit her. Yeah.
It's just the most incredible blessing.
Yeah, there's like I just
can't even put it to words
until you understand it,
until you go through it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Did you find becoming a mother also
healing to some extent?
Yeah, I think there was a lot of chaos
growing up in my house
for holidays, for
birthdays, things like that.
And being the one that sets the tone of
the house, being the one that
it's up to me, you know,
people can have their opinions.
And like I said, I had no
problem setting up the boundaries
when it came to my daughter, because my
daughter was Christmas
wasn't going to be chaos.
It wasn't going to be
schlepping around everybody's house.
You know, it was going to be calm and it
was going to be us and our P.J.
And we were going to
do what we wanted to do.
And nobody else.
You could tell me they
didn't want me to do that.
But I didn't care. Yeah.
It gives you an inner strength.
Yeah. That you didn't know you had.
Mm hmm. And then it's
unlocked like a superpower.
Yeah, truly.
Because you also you don't care what
other people think or say,
because you're going to do what's right
for your kids and for your family.
And you have a supportive partner in
that, too, that's not saying, well,
we should, you know, so
he supported you in that.
So that's wonderful.
So you have your little family.
So you stopped working then.
Was that always the plan?
Had you and your husband discussed that
before even getting married?
How you envisioned raising children and
what your roles would be?
When I was deciding what I wanted to do
after I decided I wasn't going to be a
nurse, I knew I wanted to find a
profession where I could work,
not just part time or full time.
I knew I wanted there to be some more
flexibility because I wanted options.
And I knew I always wanted to be a stay
at home mom when my kids were little.
Like before elementary school, I was
typically what I would say growing up.
And I had been not that
there's anything wrong with it.
I think every family gets
to make their own decision.
And that's the freedom
about having your own family.
But I had been the nanny who was there
full time, you know, from six to seven
p.m. with the baby, two weeks old.
And I just knew that I wanted to be the
one home with my baby all day.
Mm hmm. So my husband was he grew up in a
house where his mom was working full time
and his dad was home when he was in
elementary school on.
Oh, so he had had a different experience
than I did where my mom was full time.
And sorry, my mom was a full time stay at
home mom and my dad was working.
Yeah, you guys had the opposite. Right.
Look, but you both had a parent home.
OK. Mm hmm.
So I knew I wanted to stay
at home and he fully supported
that. I think he also
I've always worked with kids.
I've always been around kids.
He'd seen me around kids.
And he just he said that was one of the
things that he loved about me was he knew
I was going to be a great mom one day.
Yeah. So was it everything
you thought staying home?
Yeah, I think that initially it's tough.
You're going through so much.
My husband works nights.
So there are nights, you know, where I'm
just by myself with this newborn
and you don't really know what you're
doing, even though I've worked with kids
my whole life, you don't know what it's
like until it's your own baby that you're
holding. Yeah.
And yeah, I think that
there was definitely a fog.
You know, there's that postpartum fog.
And my husband was just so
supportive and so just there.
However, I needed him to be.
He was able to take off work
for I think it was seven weeks.
Oh, that's wonderful.
Yeah, he had saved.
It was like four years of PTO and
vacation time and everything.
Wow. I'm to be able to.
That's amazing. That's wonderful.
Did you experience any
postpartum depression?
I I definitely had
postpartum anxiety, I would say.
And I think I had they call it kind of
like the blues now when it's just like
maybe not diagnosed
depression, but you just feel down.
I think there were I
remember my two week appointment
postpartum or sorry,
week appointment postpartum.
I she's like, how are you doing?
And I said, I'm just sad all the time.
She's like, that's normal.
Those are the hormones.
And I remember thinking
this cannot be normal.
Yeah. Yeah.
And then it didn't really get better.
I remember six months.
People kept telling me, my mom kept
telling me six months postpartum.
Like your body starts feeling better.
You feel more like yourself.
So I was kind of looking to six months
postpartum as this light at the end of
the tunnel. Yeah.
Not that it wasn't beautiful and amazing
and everything, right?
As a individual person. Yes.
And then I got to six months postpartum
and I still felt like I was disconnected
from my own body and I'm like, all right,
what's happening here?
And I had pelvic floor therapy and my
pelvic floor therapist,
I walked into her office for my
appointment and she could
tell something was wrong.
And she's like, honey, what's wrong?
And I said, oh, nothing. I'm OK.
And she's like, sit down.
I'm going to close the door and you're
going to tell me what's going on here.
And I just broke down.
And she was, you know, she didn't say
anything that was crazy.
You know, I don't even
remember what she said.
I just remember she was so
supportive and she told me
I wasn't alone and that what I was
feeling wasn't normal.
Like I needed to talk to my doctor.
I needed to get lab work done just to
make sure everything was OK.
And everything was
officially lab wise. But
but yeah, just having someone who didn't
just dismiss me and say,
this is it like, you know, a
million people have babies.
This is just how it is.
Because I think that that I think that in
the generations older than mine,
there wasn't that like you're just you
have the baby and you
take care of the baby
and nobody really
cares about mom anymore.
Yeah, there's no attention to mom.
And I think my
generation, my friends have made it
a priority to talk to me as a person and
not just like, I can't
wait to see the baby.
I can't wait to see the baby. But how are
you? I want to see you.
Yeah. Yeah. I think your
generation is changing that.
You're seeing each other.
I think your
generation's girlhood is strong.
So strong. So strong. And
I hadn't I haven't talked to any one of
your generation who's a mom until you.
So it just makes my heart so
happy that in motherhood, too,
you guys are supporting each other.
In a completely unique way than my
generation did, because you're right.
It was it's all about
the baby and in general.
I mean, of course, like my mom, you know,
or or Brian was supportive of me,
but that your friends are seeing you and
what are you going through?
And I think you guys
are going to demand space
for postpartum care,
along with, you know, other things,
because you are right.
That is it still is
not given its due at all.
And and it's one of the hardest things
for moms to not be seen
and being told they're feeling normal
when you know innately this isn't normal.
Yeah, something's wrong.
Something has not right. Yeah. Yeah.
And then just to have someone say, you're
right, it's not normal.
And it's OK that it's not normal, but
it's not normal. Right.
So let's get you some help.
That takes a weight off because then it's
like, this is normal.
This is how it is.
Like, this isn't fun. Right.
Doesn't get better.
What happened? Yeah. Yeah.
So what what happened?
How did you end up
dealing with it or resolving it?
So I think it was so
that was around six months.
And then it was probably about seven
months postpartum where I just felt this
this shift.
And I just started feeling I think a big
part of it was I was breastfeeding
and when she started eating
solids and it wasn't just me,
you know, responsible for
keeping this child alive.
I nourishing her. Yeah. Yeah.
There was food. Other
people could feed her.
I could take a nap and my husband could
feed her, things like that.
And I think that that helped a lot.
And then also I became
more physically active.
I felt like I physically
could move my body more.
That was a big thing. My
pelvic floor therapist.
I remember saying like my joints, my my
hips, every my knees,
everything hurts still like.
And she said, honey, your body is not
going to go back to how it was
pre baby, sorry, until six months after
you're done breastfeeding,
like your joint, she
physically explained the anatomy
and what happens to your joints when you
carry a baby and give birth.
And to me, that was just so
relieving because it wasn't like
something was wrong with me.
My body was doing what it
was supposed to be doing.
It was different than
what it was before I had her.
But and before I got pregnant, but it
wasn't like I was not.
My body wasn't doing something right
because I think that that
I had that kind of from that
miscarriage, what was like,
is my body not doing something right?
Am I failing somehow?
My body's not going back to what it was.
What's wrong with my hips? You know.
And again, not talked about. Right.
No, nobody. People, it's like
you go and you can have a baby
and you can get an epidural
or you can have a C-section
or you could not have an epidural and you
can do a home birth.
And your doctor is going to be there.
And then you'll spend a
couple of days and you'll go home.
Yeah. And that's and you could
breastfeed or not breastfeed.
And that's it. That's that's what it's
like to have a baby.
Yeah. Yeah. And there's so much more.
There's so much more
that happens after that.
There should be like
10 more chapters. Right.
OK, so we had the baby.
Now there's 10 more chapters
still that are not discussed.
And everything you
just said, it's this all.
It's almost like it should
be another profession made.
Just postpartum care.
This is what. But we're going to talk to
you about it before
you even have the baby.
When you get pregnant, you know, this is
also what could possibly happen,
what you should could expect for the
first six months after postpartum.
And you're so right.
Women are just sent home.
And I'm shocked, though, that doctors
aren't doing it like the
Obies are not doing that.
No, they're not talking
about menopause either.
No, they walk in after you have the baby.
I don't know. I think to your point,
talking about it before you have the baby
is huge, because I don't think
I got more than an hour and a half asleep
for the 48 hours I was in the hospital.
Yeah, I have no idea what
people are saying to me.
They're bringing in folders
and booklets and it's high.
I'm so and so from that,
I don't know who you are.
I don't know what you just said.
You think I'm going to read this hundred
page book about what it's like
to bring a baby home.
Yeah. When I'm to have to keep this
child's alive and take care of this.
Like I'm not reading this.
No, no, it should absolutely
be something that is in tandem
with your OB appointments.
You know, even if it's just three
appointments, three separate appointments
just to talk about this, because that
might also help with
some of the postpartum
depression, because so much of
that could be second guessing
every single thing that's happening.
Yeah. Where if somebody
was like, no, it is normal.
And yes, you're going to feel like crap.
And let's look further into this.
Like that alone is comforting.
Instead of just being
like, oh, yeah, I know.
Yeah. Yeah.
Brushing it off. Brushing it off.
It's like, I don't know how this doesn't
exist because there's so much.
There's a body of
information and data about women.
Yeah. I was just about to say that if it
was if it was you're going through it,
if it was men going
through it, I don't believe that.
It's well, that's because you're a man.
It's 100 percent true.
It is. But I think I think this
generation, this
generation is going to listen.
I'm trying to fix menopause.
No, but this generation is going to be.
And I don't know about
the millennial women if they
if they're communicating as openly as the
Gen Z women about this stuff.
I don't know. But I think the Gen Z women
are going to be trailblazers of this,
you know, and you already are
doing it amongst each other.
Yeah. You know, so and you're going to
raise children that will do it.
So you're going to be
pivotal in this shift.
If you think about it, you're coming on
to our podcast and talking about it
very openly and very
comfortably and very intelligently.
That's, I guess, where it starts.
Yeah. If people listen in and in and feel
not alone and they feel they feel seen.
Yeah. So it's OK. Right.
All this is OK.
This is a biological
event that happens for women.
It's and it's happened for centuries.
Right. But but that's the point, though.
But it may not be OK.
It may not be all wonderful.
It may not be.
No, what I mean by it's a no 100 percent.
What I mean talking about it is OK.
Because everything is natural.
And somebody's probably gone through it
in some variation of some variation.
It's not you. It's not you failing.
Yeah. Yeah. But I think that young boys
and I should start to learn about all
this stuff, too. And I think
young men, you know, I think
it's a partnership, right?
So the men need to be equipped.
It's not all under women.
No, it's no, no, because,
you know, your husband wouldn't have had
all the answers either.
It's not like he learned anything either.
No. Right. You know, he
doesn't even have sisters.
I'm right. The first
girl he ever lived with.
I taught him a lot about living with
women and what that entails.
So and he's very, you know, probably does
everything he can to be aware
of understanding. But even someone like
him was probably ill-equipped to help you
really, because other than just being
there and being supportive.
I have a question. All right.
So one of the things we've talked about
has come up a lot in our conversations
with folks is, you know,
something before you communicate it,
or at least in our generation and the
generations before us as women,
you're experiencing something, you're
thinking about it before you really
communicate it. Or do
you find that at your age,
are you in your situation, are you more
communicative earlier?
Or do you sit on things and think about
it and then present it?
He's meaning like as a
woman with your partner.
Is my generation of like, let's say
something's bothering us.
We sit on it for a little bit.
Yeah, no, I bring it right up. Yeah.
Do you think your other women, your age
and your generation bring it up to
or do you think it's
still person by person?
I think it's person by person.
Like I'm just a type A person where I'm
not just going to be able to sit on
something and not bring it up, because
also I'm I want to find a solution to it.
If this is something that's impacting
both of us, if I'm
going to be salty all day,
why would I not bring
it up now? You know?
And I think it's also just part of like
being truthful with I can't fake it
with most people, but I
cannot fake it with my husband.
It sounds like you're in an authentic
relationship with your husband.
So that really gives
you the space to do it.
Yeah, that's an important part is he's
made it very, very like welcoming to
bring up any concerns. Yeah.
Well, you probably
have a friendship base.
100 percent. Yeah. And that's pivotal.
How long? You may have
said earlier, I apologize.
But how long were you
together before you did get married?
So how long did you
establish your friendship?
We were dating for two and a half years
before we got engaged.
And then I would say it was just shy of
three years when we got married.
So yeah. So you had a strong
base, which is so important.
So as you're still staying home, I
actually just a few weeks ago,
accepted a position working twice a month
at a hospital with adults.
Awesome. Yeah. Awesome. Very exciting.
But up until then now you were so she's a
year and a half, a year and a half.
Yeah. During that
time when you were home,
did you encounter any
not judgment from peers,
but any vibes about you being a stay at
home mom and not working?
Yeah, I think so, especially because I
had a master's degree.
I had only worked for I found out the day
before I started working
at the pediatric clinic
that I was pregnant again.
So I had not even worked for a full year
before I gave birth.
And I think people were kind of like,
well, what's the point?
In getting a degree, if
you're just going to stay at home.
But I think, too, I think there are a lot
of millennial women.
I don't know. I don't
want to speak for anybody.
But from what I've observed, a lot of
millennial women think,
you know, you have the freedom to go back
to work and also to
kind of prove yourself
like we don't just
have babies and stay home.
We can get married when we're
35 and have baby then or not
and then go back to work or not.
And I think there was
that push because I think
I don't know. I think I think there's
always been judgment
against stay at home.
Moms, I think there's actually my brother
just sent me a video of
Andrew Schultz being
interviewed and someone asked him,
are there any professions you feel like
don't get enough credit?
And he said stay at home moms because his
wife just had a baby.
And I think that that's something that
men don't realize either
until their partner, their person they
love goes through it.
My husband didn't know about
breastfeeding, having a baby,
stay at home moms until I
went through it. Yeah. Yeah.
No one knows. No, you do.
You do as a husband. No, I can say
I'm sure that you're
the home manager, right?
She's the home manager. Yeah.
Gets the kids out to
school, gets the food.
You know, I don't want
to everything, everything.
But everything, everything.
The chauffeur, the taxi
driver, the everything.
Yeah. But like to your
point, your husband didn't know
and you probably didn't fully
understand until their partner
is playing is in that
role, living that role.
So did you have friends
that kind of you felt some judgment from
or was it just more women in general?
Um, I think women.
I think my mom was a stay at home mom and
she really drilled in my sister
and myself to get a degree
that you can always have a job.
You don't need to because she went
through divorce and she hadn't worked.
So there was a lot of pressure to come.
You know, how do you come out of that?
Yeah. So I think for us, when we were in
high school and in college
and when she knew I was going to get
married young, a big thing was get a job
or get a degree where
you can always have a job.
You always have that job security and a
job that pays where you can live.
Right. Right. Right. Right.
And yeah, so I think that
that was a little bit of it.
I think we had some family members who
were going back to work
and went back to work full time.
So I think there was a
little bit of that, too. Yeah.
I think to.
Just something that I've accepted,
because I even have a doctor tell me
I went in for an allergy appointment and
she was like, I just don't understand
why you won't just stop breastfeeding so
that you can get on the medication
to help you feel better.
And I'm like, well, it's my eyes itching
and my nose running.
It's not like I'm, you
know, you can't breathe.
Yeah. Yeah. Defilitating. Yeah.
I've also had allergies my whole life, so
this isn't anything new. Right.
And I was so bothered by the
fact that she said that to me
while my daughter is in the
room, by the way. Yeah. So.
And I went home and I was talking about
it with my husband and I said, you know,
her priorities are just
different than mine. Yeah.
She probably went back to work, you know,
quickly after having a baby,
because that was what she wanted to do.
And she has the freedom
to make that decision.
But what I want to do is stay home.
And so she's not going to
get my perception. Right.
There's also no point in that.
And I don't need her to because she can
tell me whatever she wants.
And then I choose whether or not I'm
going to listen to it.
And I think that that with
that judgment, it's like I know
I'm doing what's right for our family.
I'm doing what I want
to do every single day.
I am grateful that I'm able to stay home,
that we have that
ability to. Yeah. I think that
I think women are our worst
enemies when it comes to this,
the stay at home mom
versus working mom thing.
And I look for I look forward to the day
when it doesn't exist.
This wedge. And I think you just said it.
It's different for every family.
And each woman has a different need.
And some women need to go back to work.
That's what they need to feel fulfilled.
And some women need to stay home because
they want to be home with their children.
And there has to be
mutual respect among women.
We need to stop
judging each other for that.
We have to support each other.
Because why do you care? Right.
Why do you care if one woman
stays home and one woman works
unless for the working woman is the woman
who stays home making you feel.
Do you have some guilt?
But that's not the
stay at home mom's fault.
That's something you
need to resolve in yourself.
And as the stay at home mom, do you have
guilt for not working?
And that's not the working mom's fault.
That's something you need to
resolve it within yourself.
But unfortunately, this wedge has been
going on really since women
started going back to work, going to work
in a in a career based way in the 70s.
And in society, of course,
fed to women, you can do it all.
And then now everyone's burned out. Yeah.
So but we've been kind of
this infighting has got to stop.
I would say it's one thing
that we still have not overcome.
I agree. As women.
And again, I hope your
generation takes care of that too.
Add it to the list on your plan on it.
To do list. It's a do list.
So from your
generation's perspective as a mother
and looking at the world.
I do. How do you feel
about raising your daughter?
Do you have higher anxiety?
Do you think is your generation maybe as
parents have higher anxiety
with the way you see the
world and being able to want to be
protective and keep
things safe for your children,
but also wanting to give them the freedom
to chase their dreams?
How do you feel about that?
Yeah, I think my husband, I
fully thought I was having a boy.
And when we found out
I was having a girl,
he was in denial for a solid two days.
Just when my guy.
Yeah, you guys probably
have a lot to talk about.
Have them pick you up or talk.
But but yeah, he was just
also he has all brothers.
So there was just a lot of unknown.
Yeah. And also he's very
protective, very protective of me,
even more protective of our daughters.
And I think there were
things that I just knew as a woman
that I didn't want for her.
We don't talk about her body as a
physical appearance.
We tell her she's strong.
She can do it. Things like that.
We don't talk about, oh, you look at your
belly, your belly's big.
This shirt's too small.
Like I have shifted.
And the way we talk
about food, we don't talk.
Oh, you're eating so much.
That's something that we've told our
family members and some of them
who are a little bit older have had a
hard time adjusting.
And we say this is
something that you're going to do
when you're around her.
And that has been because I grew up.
I had a very unhealthy
relationship with food, I would say.
And I just don't want that for her.
And I know that I don't want her scared
to eat or scared to,
you know, tell me she's
hungry, even if she just had lunch
because she's going through a growth
spurt and needs more food.
Right. Right. Right.
So, yeah, there are things that I have
taken from my childhood
that I just, you know, want to change.
You're adjusting.
Yeah, I think that we'll Gen
X grow up in the diet culture.
Yeah. Our moms were always on a diet.
And then we were supposed
to be on a diet and thin.
And that was really, you
know, that's happiness.
That's what we were.
That's all you need.
Fed, quote unquote, fed.
You just need to be thin
and everything will be good.
So I think, again, that's
something you guys are changing.
I think that's remarkable, though.
I think what you just said is remarkable.
And people should listen to that and
rewind and listen again.
Yeah. Thank you.
Using different language
in support of your child's
self perception and in how
they feel and view the world.
Man, I'm blown away.
It's so empowering.
Yeah, it's so empowering.
And I love that.
You know, you're strong like all of that.
So I and do you find that
in you like you have what?
A couple of mom friends, right?
Yeah, they do.
They do this around the same.
They have the same outlook.
I would say I have some like my triplet
friends who their cousin
that they're really
close with is the same way.
They visited me and met my daughter
and they said the same things like, you
know, when I when they would say
you're so you're so strong, you're so
smart, you're so kind
instead of just like, oh, look at you,
you're so pretty, you know,
things like that. That's just people
might roll their eyes
and say we're being too soft or whatever.
But these are things that
if you grew up with this
and I grew up with people always
commenting on how skinny I was.
And then, you know, even if I ate like,
oh, wow, you can really eat a lot.
And you still say that
you still stay that thin
and that you just as a little girl,
you're just taking all of this stuff in.
And then when you gain
weight, when you go to college
and you think something's
wrong with you, I wasn't eating
because I thought, what am I like?
I'm supposed to be this thin girl.
It fed into that box that you grew up
with as you were thin
and could eat whatever you
want and were you were thin.
So then when your body started become
more of a woman's body
and it adjusted naturally.
Yeah, because you were also it you were
having to leave that identity
that you had grown up with your formative
years, not understanding.
This is all normal.
Yeah, this is all healthy.
Right. This is what's supposed to happen.
No, I mean, even raising my daughter,
I've had to I had to watch myself
because I would catch myself saying and I
know I said way more about like probably
I what I try to do is
take the healthy, be healthy.
This is healthier to eat.
This is healthier to do
at being active is healthy.
So because I had an eating disorder, so I
tried to be careful about thin
or eating or you shouldn't eat that.
It was more this is a
healthier thing to eat.
Yeah. But even me as a Genex mom
are not was was not at
the level that you're at.
I mean, that is
amazing what you're doing.
They're advancing it.
You're way advancing that.
And it's just so, so commendable.
But then I'm sure there are times you
still say you look pretty or that.
Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure.
It's OK to be pretty.
She's not dressed in
all gray all the time.
Right. It's not that we never do that.
And I think, too,
my husband sees how important it is for
him to say these things to her.
And yeah, I think that
that's I mean, that's huge.
She is going to see him.
And, you know, I mean,
she loves him so much.
I am just chop.
And not really, I'm not chop
over, but she loves me, too.
But she loves her dad and this thing like
her whole world lights up.
And for for him to say these things to
her about her being strong
and about her being brave
and about her being beautiful.
And all of those things, that's huge.
To have the man, the most important man
in her life saying these things,
because it also teaches her what she
should expect from a partner.
Because a girl mirrors a lot of that if
they if they weren't giving it at all.
They're looking for
that. Yeah, their partner.
But if they see their father,
if their father treats
them with the utmost respect,
then that's what they're
going to expect from a partner.
And then whoever they date is going to
have to rise to the occasion
or else he's not an option. Right.
So it's and it starts this young, you
know, and the communication
and the talking,
everything you guys are doing.
Have you seen a shift in him
now that he has a daughter?
Oh, yeah. There's a guy. Yeah.
I think so. I think that now it's like he
says he even said he's like,
I couldn't even imagine having
a boy now that I have a girl.
I just want another daughter, you know.
Oh, wow. Which is so funny, because he
was like, we're having three boys,
just like where I
came from, set on being.
And now he's so girl, dad.
Yeah. Girl, well, girl dads.
I mean, that whole concept
has been so just celebrated.
I love that. It's so cool.
It's the coolest.
What has been celebrated?
Because girl dad wasn't a celebrated
thing with me growing up.
Everyone, you're supposed to have a boy,
not just my family, but in general,
like sons. Yeah. You know, and then and
then there's girls, you know.
But now it's like I think the millennials
are the ones that that really started
the girl dad phenomenon. I think so, too.
Yeah. And and brought that into society.
And then you guys, it's
just you're running with it.
So it's so exciting.
So so then now you're going to start
working two times a month.
That's such a nice way to ease a little
bit of your profession
back into your family life. Yeah. Yeah.
It's very doable. It's very manageable.
My husband's going to be
the one who's there with her.
So that was huge for me. Yeah.
And I actually interviewed
four months after she was born.
I interviewed for a
position that was part time.
That was twice a week.
Got the job on the
spot at the same hospital.
And it was just a different floor.
And I was so sick to my stomach.
The whole elevator ride down.
And I knew it just wasn't the time.
And I remember when you were talking
about feeling guilty that, oh,
you should go back to work.
I felt that pressure from some outside
voices and, you know,
oh, just go interview.
Just go see what happens. See what
happens. You'll know. You'll know.
You know, just go back. It's not that
much. It's not that much.
And I just could not do it.
And I I talked to the director.
She was very understanding, supportive.
She she said you will never
regret this time home with her.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I knew it just wasn't the time.
And then, you know, here we are almost a
year and a half later and
a year and change later.
And I knew I know
that this is more for me.
Yes. Twice to three times a month is
very, very manageable.
It's still hard. I still cried.
Yeah, I'm sure.
Day. And I'm sure
there'll be days where I cry.
But I think something that my therapist
has said to me, too, is that,
you know, she this relationship and kind
of a healthy attachment
that we have to each other is great.
But me being away from her
will give her some autonomy
and that that's helped me a lot because
she was like one day
she'll probably go to elementary school
and be gone from you full time.
And is that going to be the first time
where she's away from you all day long?
That's going to be a big jump for her.
That's going to be a big adjustment.
Right. And she's right.
She's like, this is a good baby step.
It's also giving her
uninterrupted time with her dad.
Yeah. That is so, so special.
Yeah. Well, and it's true.
It's it's it's incorporating
a little bit of that balance.
And that's what preschool does, too.
Preschool is that first
step where I'll never forget
taking our oldest son to
preschool for the first time.
I think I cried that whole day. Yeah.
But it's two and a half
hours, you know, and it's that.
But then you you adjust and then you're
like, yeah, you're going to preschool.
I want that two and a half hours.
I don't care if you're sick.
Yeah, I don't even go.
But it is. It's those first.
I remember when they handed our oldest
son to us, I looked at my mom and said,
I don't know how I'm going
to send him to kindergarten.
I'm never going to
send him to kindergarten.
But then once kindergarten came, we kind
of grow with our children, you know.
So when they get to that phase, you're
like, OK, you know,
it's it's for it's hard
the first days, but
then you're like, OK, OK.
But to your point, you can
only raise your children once.
I tell people that you can't
go back and redo any of it.
It's a one time shot.
So you can always go back to work.
You can. And maybe you won't have the
same title or maybe you'll be starting
an entry level again or you won't be
making as much money.
But you saw the potential
to work back up to that.
You can never, ever, ever go back again
to raise your children.
So it's it's what's
comfortable for you as a person.
And then the people around
you need to respect that.
And there's no judgment.
Whatever anyone feels works for them.
But you said it in your gut.
You knew what worked
for you and your family.
Yeah. And you knew that first thing
didn't because that wasn't the path.
And then the path was presented to you a
year and a half later about.
And that's the right that felt right.
Yeah. So it's trusting that.
And as as her mother, you trusted that as
as a wife, you trust that.
And as you as a woman, you trusted that.
And then the right the
right thing presented itself.
So, you know, just the fact
that you already have that
that wisdom and that
trust in yourself is amazing.
Thank you. Honestly.
Were you going to say something?
I forget what it was.
No, I think the concept for me is that I
always tell younger parents, it's
everything you go through
gets you ready for the next step.
So you get pregnant.
You've got nine to 10 months, 40 weeks to
figure out what's going to happen.
Then it's different.
And then you have more time to get ready
for when they go to preschool.
Everything just is
constantly preparing you for the next.
Yeah. Like I'm sure you can never imagine
taking her to college.
Oh, my gosh. I cry.
What were we watching the other day?
We were watching a movie and I think
someone I think they asked for.
Oh, it was a wedding.
It was a wedding scene.
The dad was walking the daughter down the
aisle and I'm balling my eyes out.
Everything hits
differently when you're a parent.
Oh, yes. Everything.
I'm like, everything.
Oh, my gosh. Everything in life.
Yeah, everything. And
then like, I can't watch.
I no longer could watch
anything where children die.
Oh, no.
Or my tolerance for all of
that every year went down.
You know, I used to not be scared to fly.
Now I'm scared to fly.
All those things, because your whole
perspective changes, you know.
And when a children's missing or you
automatically feel what
that mother's feeling,
you know, it's your whole
perspective absolutely changes.
So but the fact that you have been able
to to already prioritize
your family so strongly
with your family so young,
it's only going to pay off
dividends as the years go on,
because you guys are going to have
outside forces that you
aren't even expecting.
Yeah. And so you guys are already
building this strength together.
And that's that's I'm sure your husband
is just such an amazing,
supportive partner and all of that.
Or also wouldn't be working. No, he.
You know, yeah, they talk about mom got,
you know, trust your mom.
Yeah, that's something I
always tell my friends.
Even, you know, your mom might tell you
she did something different way or she.
And if you are there were so many the
first day in the
hospital, I had something.
My mom was telling me something.
And but I was doubting myself because the
nurses were like, oh,
this is just your first baby, you know.
Yeah. But you just you just trust that
and you lean into it.
But I think dads have it's
not really discussed as much
because I think maybe dads would get made
fun of if they brought it up.
But I think dads have
kind of like a dad got to.
And I think that something for me is I've
always told my husband,
like, if you feel a certain way about
something and I feel
something differently,
like I want you to feel comfortable, not
just because I'm the mom,
I get the final say when it comes to X,
Y, Z, her sleep or whatever it is,
her schedule, her routine.
I want you to feel comfortable talking to
me about it and and us
having a conversation
because we're partners
in this. Yeah, it's true.
I'm laughing because you're spot on.
We do that. I think even
as recently in the last week
when a decision, something
happened, I'm like, you're crazy.
We need to get him home or this or that.
And it's my dad got, you know, kicks in.
Yeah. Yeah. You have to honor it.
And that's and learning
how to parent together
is the whole skill that
is also not talked about.
Just because you love someone or are
friends with them and
choose to marry them
does not mean that parenting together is
just going to come naturally.
Right. And there has to be that
communication and that give and take.
And you're right.
The father needs to have the freedom
to give his opinion on
everything that's going on as well.
Now, a lot of guys will
they don't want to be bothered.
You know, they're like, no, no, whatever
you decide, at least in my generation,
whatever you decide is fine.
But the freedom still needs to be there
where they don't feel
they don't have a voice
because I have witnessed that.
Yeah. And it it doesn't work.
Eventually, things
are falling apart. Yeah.
So and there is a dad.
I will say for him, he's
he definitely right away
taught me because I had that
mom strength and everything.
But he he even amped it
up more of no, screw that.
We're going to do this. We're going to
we're going to challenge this.
He's really good about no, no.
You know, even when I would
be like, well, I don't know.
He's like, no, that's weird.
We're not. This is not happening. Right.
And he'd set a scroll. Yeah.
I mean, but just having that
extra person that has your back,
that's like we're going to chat, we're
going to confront this.
And that person's like, that's right.
We are. And here we go.
And that's part of the
strength of the family. Yeah.
You know, so now you did
mention you have a therapist. I do.
Yeah. She has been it's
been kind of a journey.
I thought after the
miscarriage, I should see a therapist.
But it's hard to find somebody who takes
insurance, accepts new clients.
Yes. You know what the copay is calling,
scheduling if I was working full time.
So my availability was limited.
Everyone could only see
a therapist after five.
You know, yeah. So it never it just
didn't make it a priority.
And then my it was Thanksgiving.
It was our first
Thanksgiving with the baby.
My husband was working.
I had put her to bed and I
was sobbing for two hours.
And I didn't really know why.
And holidays I mentioned were always kind
of hard in my family growing up.
And I that was the moment I realized I
had the stuff that I
still needed to work on
that I didn't want to
pass to my daughter.
I don't want to be
crying on holidays. Yeah.
I wanted to make good
memories on holidays.
And I was like, all right, tomorrow
morning, I'm looking up therapists.
And I had two who are
not the best fit for me.
Now I have my current one who that's the
other thing is it can feel really
discouraging when you finally get the
time, you finally find an appointment,
you go to the appointment and then you're
like, this person isn't great for me.
Yeah. So if anybody's going through that,
I encourage you to to try again.
I had to go. You know, my third one was
finally the right fit.
And she has been so incredible.
And I just couldn't.
I've been seeing her now
for about a year and a month.
And one of her things that she says is
if it's not good for my daughter, then
it's not good for Grace.
And if it's good for my
daughter, then it is good for Grace.
Yeah. And because as a
mom, you put your kids first.
Yeah. And so having that as
just kind of something that I run my
decisions through helps me so much.
Honoring yourself as much
as you honor your daughter.
Yeah. Which is so hard to do as a mom.
So hard. But the fact that you are
starting to learn how to do
it at this age is amazing.
It's amazing. It's just it makes it easy
when it's on my daughter.
If it's going to negatively impact my
daughter, then I'm not doing that.
Yeah. You know, yeah. That makes it easy.
Why would I treat myself that way?
If I wouldn't if I wouldn't let her be
exposed to that, why would I let my.
Well, your whole world shifts.
You start to see the world through the
lens of how it does impact
your your kids and your family.
And that's how you
start to navigate things.
And things become
clear. Yeah. Much clearer.
But then also loving
yourself enough as much.
Right. I mean, yeah.
Putting holding yourself
like, you know, with that value.
Yeah. Yeah. That's wonderful.
That's a good therapist.
I'm like getting a tattoo on my arm.
I tell my friends to with mom who are
moms and they all say, oh, my gosh, you
know, thank you so much.
Because that just it just helps.
It helps simplify things
that feel really complicated.
Yeah. Yeah. That's that's wonderful.
That's such a great message. And gosh, I
I'm so hopeful and and just filled with
joy about the women in your generation.
I really think you guys are just going to
continue to positively change things for
the women coming up
behind you and for each other.
And it just and and as Gen Xers are going
to try to change things
from out of pause ahead of you.
Yeah. Thank you.
That's what we're working on.
Now, before I ask what your five year
goal is, I'm going to check
to see if he has any questions,
because I always cut it short. And he's
like, I had a question.
The only question I have is I can't
remember something
that comes up a lot is.
A lot of folks, especially your age, they
they feel very disenfranchised with the
corporate world and and feel somewhat
trapped that they have to
choose this corporate path.
But you had mentioned and I and your
mom's advice to you was very good.
I can't remember what it was, but it was,
you know, find something you can do that
allows you to afford,
afford where you live,
but also go back to work
or something like that.
What was that advice? Because I think it
was it was pretty good advice.
Yeah, she said to get a degree where you
can get a job where
you have job security.
It's not going to be a job that's going
to get taken away, especially now with
with tech and everything.
And then also to get a job where you can
have a livable wage just with your
bachelor's degree, which,
funny enough, I didn't because I then had
to go to grad school.
But, you know, I went straight in. Yeah.
Yeah. But yeah, that was it.
OK, yeah, no, I think
so for our listeners.
I think it's more of a you don't have to
go the corporate path.
You can get a degree where you have that
flexibility because if you picked up and
moved to Washington, D.C.,
you could probably get a job.
You can move to North Dakota and get a
job within your field.
So I think that's the the advice.
I don't you don't need to be
stuck in the corporate trap.
Find something that offers flexibility
and is something you can do anywhere.
Yeah. Yeah. No,
that's that's great advice.
So where do you see
yourself in five years?
I hope I have.
I hope I'm done having babies.
I hope you've had it. I don't know how
many it is, but I hope we've, you know,
completed our family with with kids.
Never say never. You know
what we went through. Yeah.
They're called bonus babies.
Bonus babies.
And I see myself.
I don't know, just completely in love
with my husband and enjoying.
I don't there's no,
you know, like big goal.
It's really just to have
a steady, happy family.
That's a big goal.
That's a wonderful goal.
And it's really, really all that matters.
It really is. And so I
think that's a wonderful goal.
It's perfect.
And I'm just I have to go back to that.
I'm just so happy that you found your
friend tribe, your woman friend tribe,
because it's vital and and it becomes
it's just those certain people as you go
through life and then you gather another
one and another one.
But it's not huge.
Right. It's a quality thing.
And I always tell people, if you can
count on your hand, true friends.
You're rich. Yeah.
But to find those women that are
supportive, that you can talk to and that
are also leading authentic lives where
you can be real with them.
It's gold. So I'm after everything,
especially you went
through in high school.
I'm just so happy that
you found your people.
Thank you. Me too.
I couldn't do it without them.
I really couldn't. Yeah.
Yeah. So and I for our listeners, full
disclosure, we've known Grace and she I
think we met you were 14.
Ninth grade, right.
Yeah. Yeah. And she was just a precious
treasure then and the sweetest.
And it's it's overwhelmingly moving for
me to see where you are now in your life.
I'm going to put you.
But I could not be happier for you.
I honestly couldn't.
I you are just have grown into such a
wonderful young woman,
young mother, young wife.
But the wisdom you carry within you that
you have gotten from yourself is along
with the people that have supported you
is I'm just thrilled
that you you have that.
And I just think that you have so much so
many good things ahead of you in life and
you are just so far ahead.
You just don't even know.
There's things that you already have
discovered and know that have taken women
in my generation till
they're my age to learn.
So I'm just happy.
Just so happy for you about that.
But I could not be happier for you.
And I if I can be so
bold, I'm so proud of you.
I agree. I agree.
I'm very happy for you.
I'm super proud of you.
I think you're just a
remarkable person and keep going.
Thank you. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
So sweet. And we're so excited to see
where everything leads.
And maybe in five years you'll come back
or three years or whenever you want and
we can hear where you're at.
Husband. Yeah.
I think those two need to talk.
Yeah.
Well, hey, you guys go unpackaged things.
Yeah.
Unpackaged.
Oh, my gosh, Brian.
But again, thank you for coming on and
sharing your story because I know that
there are a lot of especially young women
out there that can probably relate to a
lot of what you talked about.
You know, a lot.
And so it always helps because then they
feel seen and not alone
and that there's hope.
It's a great episode for people your age,
even her age and our age, because, yeah,
you don't need to hit a certain point or
age to have some wisdom and introspective
thought and awareness.
You can always reinvent yourself.
Yeah. You know, so even if you're you are
age, you can still take a lot of the
advice you had to share.
So thank you.
Thank you.
And for honoring us with your
life story where it is so far.
Thank you. It's cool.
And thank you to our listeners.
We welcome all questions and comments,
even those crazy bad ones.
Sometimes you guys like to share with us.
But thank you for listening
and we will see you next time.
Bye.