# Episode 24 - GenZ Women Series: Kierstin

- Podcast: GenX Adulting Podcast
- Published: 2025-03-16T21:00:00.000Z
- Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/16801196-episode-24-genz-women-series-kierstin.mp3
- Page: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/transcripts/podcasts/genx-adulting-podcast/episodes/episode-24
- Source: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/episodes/genxadultingpodcastepisode24.html
- People: Brian Barker (host), Nicole Barker (host), Kierstin (guest)
- Topics: GenZ Women

## Summary

In this episode of the GenZ Women Series, host interviews Kierstin, a Gen Z woman born in 1997, who shares her unique experiences growing up on the cusp of Gen Z and Millennials. They discuss her childhood, the impact of social media on her life, her journey through grief after losing her mother, and her evolving views on relationships and self-identity.

## Key takeaways

- Kierstin experienced a childhood with limited technology before social media became prevalent.
- She faced significant challenges during middle school due to her mother's cancer diagnosis and eventual passing.
- Kierstin's experiences shaped her understanding of relationships, leading her to recognize unhealthy patterns.
- She emphasizes the importance of therapy in processing grief and trauma.
- Kierstin's career path evolved from working at Hooters to event coordination and modeling.
- She highlights the need for women to set boundaries in relationships and recognize their worth.

## FAQ

### What was Kierstin's childhood like?

Kierstin grew up in a time when technology was not as prevalent, allowing her to experience a more traditional childhood before social media took over.

### How did Kierstin cope with her mother's passing?

Kierstin struggled with her mother's cancer diagnosis and eventual death during middle school, leading her to internalize her feelings and seek therapy later in life.

### What lessons did Kierstin learn from her relationships?

Kierstin learned the importance of recognizing unhealthy patterns in relationships and setting boundaries, realizing that she often settled for less than she deserved.


## Referenced links

- [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm7AU3ffJ7k)
- [Listen on Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-24-genz-women-series-kierstin/id1764838823?i=1000699415414)
- [Listen on Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/0yELWq0z6iPJDa4O952TDg)
- [Listen on Buzzsprout](https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/16801196-episode-24-genz-women-series-kierstin)

## Transcript

[Music]
Welcome to GenX Adulting and today we
have Kirsten with us. Welcome.
Hello, thank you for having me.
We're so happy to have you today.
So the first question we ask everyone is
what year were you born?
I was born in 1997.
Okay, so you're a Gen Z's, a lineal.
Okay.
So do you know what's a lineal?
I do not, but I would be lying if I said
I didn't look up the age range before
this, like the years.
And I did see I was on
kind of the cusp for both.
Yes.
Yes.
So you're kind of in that micro
generation that you don't relate at all
to like kids that are like 14, 15, 16.
Those Gen Z's, they're having a
completely different childhood than you
had, but you don't totally relate to the
38, 39, 40 year old millennials.
Right.
So you're kind of, you have
a foot in each generation.
You were able to experience some of your
childhood without technology, without a
phone, definitely without social media.
And by the time that entered your world,
it was probably more high school age.
So you kind of got a little bit of that
old-fashioned childhood before social
media entered the picture.
And then you got to have that social
media phone experience when
you were a little bit older.
I always say you guys had
the best of both worlds.
I think so too.
I remember I wasn't allowed to have like
the iPhone, I think until I was maybe a
sophomore in high school,
but all the kids around me did.
So I still had that like
flip phone with the antenna.
Yeah, could not relate to anyone.
Everyone thought it
was like a walkie talkie.
Yeah.
And then I remember, yeah, my sophomore
year, I think Instagram had come out.
Right.
And it was, I mean, at the time Instagram
was not what it is now.
It was just more so like you follow only
people, you know, like that kind of vibe.
And you were private.
Oh, I was private on Instagram and I was
posting like, you know, random photos of
like the beach or like random photos of
like a grilled cheese I made.
Like nothing crazy.
And now it's so thought out that it's
yes, completely
different, completely different.
So and then you guys got to experience
Snapchat when it started.
And I think were you part of Facebook
when it first came out?
I was.
I remember I got Facebook, I think in
middle school because I was in yearbook
and the theme that
year was Facebook themed.
I had to get one because I
had no idea what Facebook was.
Right.
And same kind of situation.
It was very more relaxed.
I feel like like you could
post like 10, 15 statuses a day.
You could change your
profile picture five times a day.
Like it wasn't that thought out to where
it is now where it's kind of more, I feel
like planned in a way.
Yeah.
Post on there like it was
very freeing if anything.
It was more spontaneous.
Exactly.
Nothing was thought into how it is now.
And I don't think anyone your age now
really is on uses Facebook.
No.
I'll check it sometimes more so to see
what I guess like older
family members who still use it.
But nobody I know is posting, you know,
life updates on there.
It's all Instagram.
So it's all Instagram.
What about TikTok though?
Is your age still really using TikTok?
So I use it more so as just
kind of like a scrolling thing.
I'm not one to post to TikTok and I kind
of feel like more people
my age are kind of the same.
Okay.
I don't really see too many people
posting kind of like what they do in a
day or just pretty much anything.
I feel like it's more my generation is
just kind of like a
scroller like entertainment.
Exactly.
Like something to do before
you go to bed when you're bored.
Just scroll through but most younger
people that I see they use
it as like they're posting.
I've seen people post like a photo dump
which people do more so on Instagram.
So it's kind of I feel
like almost shifting.
Yes.
That people yeah Instagram on TikTok now.
I think the younger Gen
Z's do those photo dumps.
Yes.
Yeah.
What is this?
Yeah.
It's confusing.
I'm like this is an Instagram thing but I
feel like saying that I know I know and
then does your age still use Snapchat?
I would say a lot less.
I remember when I was in college people
would you know post the Snapchat stories
and people would it
was a lot more popular.
I guess like people would use it as more
of like a solid form of communication as
opposed to like texting or calling people
would just Snapchat.
Yeah, but more so now I feel like I'll
check it once a day.
Snapchat like three people
and then that's about it.
Okay.
So he's really posting.
Okay.
So for communication
you guys are texting.
Yes.
Now we're back on the texting which I
feel like is how it
always should have been.
It's like full circle.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Used to be like texting was weird like
you would Snapchat your friends or you
would Snapchat just anybody and that was
your form of communication.
You'd type what you had
to say on the Snapchat.
Yeah, or even you people would use
Snapchat messaging like I would
communicate with people over that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And now it's kind of odd.
Yeah.
Is that an age thing because I think when
you're younger maybe you wanted the
privacy or the perception of privacy that
your parents couldn't see it.
I guess so.
I feel like it could be an age thing but
also I feel like at the time I was
thinking it was almost like kind of
cooler to be using this
app as opposed to texting.
Right.
So I definitely gravitated more towards
that but now yeah so much now would you
say like especially with TikTok but with
scrolling in general would you say that
that has definitely
diverted you away from watching.
streaming services on TV.
No 100%.
I used to be like such a show watcher
Netflix to everything and I was actually
talking about this with
my sister the other day.
I don't watch that much TV.
My sister's a huge TV watcher.
So anytime she has a TV on I just kind of
hop on with her and watch
whatever she's watching.
Yeah, but I'm never one to turn on the TV
and throw something on and instead you're
scrolling exactly which is so bad.
Like I'm trying to divert away from that
but it's just kind of like I don't know
if it's like an attention span thing but
I like to watch the short little.
clips and then move on move on to
something different.
Yeah, I don't know.
I think it's a kind of a movement because
I know the streaming services are not
thrilled about TikTok and and even you
know, they've got used to Facebook and
Instagram but I think TikTok has
definitely affected 100 streaming
services and they they're trying to
figure it all that out.
So I didn't know because I know for us at
least we don't watch as much TV.
We're more on social media.
I watch TV outside of football season and
then March Madness
maybe the World Series.
I don't watch TV.
Yeah, and even a lot of TikTok accounts
will post I guess like popular clips.
Yes, certain shows like Grey's Anatomy.
I watched like five clips earlier today
of like a very key point in the show and
I'm like, okay, I got my TV fix like I
saw something interesting but absolutely
and even like we don't have Hulu but I'll
watch someone will put
clips up of like right now.
It's about that Ruby Frankie that woman
who abused her kids.
I the documentary about
that on TikTok on TikTok.
So now I'm just watching all the shorts
because we don't have Hulu.
I'm like, this is great and I get my fix.
I'm like then after a few days.
I'm like, I don't want
to hear about her anymore.
Exactly.
You know kind of like what
you said with like the fix.
I'll watch like a whole documentary or a
movie or TV show and like I'm not one to
like sit down and be able to just sit
through it like I like to get up and walk
around or go do something else.
But yeah, kind of like you get your like
couple minute fix on TikTok and then
you're like, do you binge watch anything?
Binge watch.
So like I said, like my sister Ashlyn,
she rewatches TV shows all the time.
Yeah, like old shows like I'm talking
like pretty little liars vampire diaries
like she'll be rewatching.
So then I'll end up sitting down and
watching them with her.
Yeah, but definitely older TV shows we
rewatch same here like Kyle put on she
even got him into vampire diaries.
We were watching it now for like a week.
Oh my sit down with us.
He's the typical guy that like walks
around and is watching as you're well,
what's going on and
then he's asking questions.
But Dylan our youngest son is really into
prison break right now.
I've seen that and now Kai has gotten
into it and now you've been watching.
I'm off of it, but I watched it for like
three or four days in a row.
That's why I ask if you binge watch
because I don't but
sometimes you get sucked in.
It's good.
You should check it out.
It's funny.
Yeah, do not check it out.
It's funny.
Anyways, okay.
So where were you born?
I was born in Boca Raton.
Okay, and in raised.
All right.
So you grew up in Boca.
Yes, and you mentioned you have a sister
and do I have a younger sister.
We live together right now.
Okay, planning on
keeping living together.
Okay, and where did your parents meet?
They actually met in
Boca in Meisner Park.
No way.
Yeah.
So my both of my
parents are from out of state.
My dad's from Michigan.
My mom's from Minnesota.
Okay, they both moved down around the
same time kind of like
later high school years.
It's funny.
My mom actually went to Boca High too.
No way.
Yeah, I had someone
show me an old yearbook.
I know somebody whose parents went there
and I found my mom's
yearbook picture, which
was super funny.
That is so cool.
But my dad was I guess like a bar regular
at this one place in Meisner.
And so is my mom's dad, my grandpa and my
grandpa was like, oh my
daughter's like living
with me for a little bit.
He lived in Meisner too.
He was like, yeah, she's like a couple
floors above us like
someone come get her downstairs.
Like so she can be social.
She's like reading a book or something.
Was this after she graduated from Boca
High or was she still in high school?
I guess so she graduated Boca High then
she kind of traveled around for college.
She went to like Florida State.
She was in Denver and then she went to
law school in Texas.
Oh, wow.
This was post law school.
Okay, and my dad went
upstairs knocked on the door.
She was very confused what this man was
doing and it just
kind of went from there.
Now, was he older than her?
Actually two years younger than her.
Oh, wow.
Okay, so he was a bartender or he was a
regular at this bar regular at this bar.
So what did he do at the time?
He's always been in for the most part his
family's like a big car
family like they owned
like a bunch of like Volkswagen
dealerships and then I
think this is a few years before
he ended up opening like a Ford
dealership and look like
Okachobi very far very random,
but he was always in the car business.
I'm pretty sure at the time he was
something with that something with cars.
Yeah, okay.
And then how do you know how long they
dated before they got married?
I think they met later
like kind of later in life.
Like I think they were in there like
early to mid 30s at this point.
Okay.
I don't think they dated
probably around two years.
I would say two to three years.
Okay.
Yeah, it was
definitely kind of like later.
So she went to school and she was she
practicing law when they met?
She was a probate in a state lawyer.
Oh, okay.
And here in Boca right in Boca the woman
she works for still runs her.
Law practice.
I think it's it's in
Meisner kind of right by Meisner.
Okay, and then so they got married and
then how soon were
you born after they got
married?
I think I was born maybe two
years after they got married.
My mom was I think 38 at the time.
Oh, okay.
So later in life.
She had Ashland when she was 41.
Okay later in life for sure.
Yeah.
Wow.
Wow.
So that that's kind of cool though
because she she did
all her things exactly.
She like lived her life to the fullest.
She got like an amazing career, which I
feel like it's like super comforting to
kind of think about.
Yeah.
I feel like there's so much pressure to
like get married have kids do all this
stuff, but then I think about my mom and
I'm like she was 38 when she had me.
Yes.
Yeah, there's no rush there.
No, no, we actually had a guest on
Jasmine that had a
similar situation where
she went to she went to school.
She had her career and I think around the
same ages as your mom did with you
guys and she it was great.
She said I did all the things.
She recommends it.
She recommends it.
Yeah, that that work whatever works for
everyone obviously, but that's you
know, it worked for her.
It worked for her and and it's
interesting to use the
word comfort because I'm sure
there there is that social pressure even
for your generation for sure.
I remember being like 1819 meanwhile all
my college roommates.
We were all talking about this and we
were all like we want to be engaged by 25
married 26 like first kid at 27 and now
I'm 27 and I'm like,
I'm nowhere near ready for that.
Yeah.
Yeah at the time.
I feel like that's what everybody kind of
wanted or thought they needed now.
What about now has that
adjusted for your friends as well?
I think now that I think about it most of
my friends are kind of same boat.
Everyone's actually I feel
like I can go two different ways.
I have friends that are ready to get
married have kids like immediately like
they I feel like still feel that pressure
that they haven't gotten to that point
in their life, but then other side I have
friends that are kind of like where
I'm at now where I'm kind
of like I'm not in a rush.
I'm not going to force anything.
It's just kind of more relaxed.
Like I definitely want to live my life a
little bit more, but
like you said earlier
like it's whatever works for you now.
Do you feel that it is more accepted
though now that you're out there and
you're away from school and you're living
the quote-unquote adult life.
Are you feeling that it
is more accepted to wait?
Oh 100% I feel like definitely now.
I feel like I'm seeing a lot more people
kind of waiting for that type of thing
as opposed to just
kind of rushing into it.
But I feel like it's definitely more
accepted and I feel kind of more like an
internal comfort with it than I did years
ago where I was like, oh my goodness.
I'm so behind you're not
carrying that anxiety exactly.
Yeah, that's wonderful because with my
generation it was just like that's what
you do exactly and I feel like people
looked at like their parents or like
what was kind of expected in earlier
years and they were
like, I've got to do that.
Yeah, and then you had a great example
with your parents, you
know, and it worked out.
So your family, your parents settled here
in Boca raising you and your sister.
And they were both working
or did your mom stay home?
So when I was born my mom was continuing
working, but then once she had my sister,
she kind of I guess
became a stay-at-home mom.
She didn't really I think in the first
few years she worked a
little bit, but it was
I guess you would say more hybrid like
she would do some work
from home, work in office.
But then once my sister I think got a
little bit older, she
just went to full time.
Yeah, yeah, and it's nice that with her
career, she could probably
do work from home a little bit
and gave her that freedom and then so
your little family is humming along and
then was there any big
life change that happened?
Yes, so when I was in middle school, I
think I was in sixth grade.
My mom got diagnosed with breast cancer
and at the time it was
just stage one super early.
My parents like there's nothing to be
concerned about, you know, we didn't
really know what cancer was.
Like nobody kind of I guess gave us the
rundown on what it was.
I don't even think I learned
about it in school at the time.
Like we were super young.
We were just basically told she was sick,
but she was going to get better.
So then she was fine, went through chemo,
went through radiation, but then by the
time I was in eighth grade,
I think it was halfway through eighth
grade, I started noticing she was like
losing her hair again
and going to more doctor's appointments,
but I think both my parents kind of kept
us in the dark on it.
And ultimately she did end up having
stage four terminal and she passed away
April of my eighth grade year.
So your entire middle school experience,
which is usually not the best experience
for most kids in general,
was your mom had cancer.
So how did that
affect those years for you?
Because they're already tough.
Oh, 100 percent.
I mean in sixth grade when she had first
been diagnosed, it definitely did take a
bit of a toll on me.
But again, I didn't really understand it,
I guess to the fullest extent.
But like you said,
middle school is always rough.
It was definitely rough for me because
I've always been kind of
more on the quiet, shy side.
So I definitely struggled with that.
And then I'm not one to at the time, like
kind of share what's going on.
So nobody really knew except a couple of
close family friends that
I had gone to school with.
So it was kind of like going through
middle school, which is being like the
kind of shy, quiet kid.
And then having that going on at home
definitely made it super tricky.
And then her passing away, I guess
towards the end of my eighth grade year,
I'm about to go to high school.
Like definitely made it hard.
Were you always shy and quiet?
Always in elementary
school, middle school.
And then I would say high school towards
the end, I became a little bit more, but
nothing not like a drastic change.
Like I was still very
to myself, very quiet.
Did you internalize things?
Oh, definitely.
Like I definitely had struggles in middle
and high school that even I feel like I
have a couple of close friends from high
school, like maybe two or three.
But they still don't even know, I guess,
like the full extent of everything going
on because I kind of would just go and
was do you think that's genetic?
Like was your mom or dad like that?
My mom was very to herself.
Okay.
And post her passing away would have
people be coming up to me and telling me,
you know, she kept everything to herself.
Like we had no idea.
Okay.
I think that kind of thing.
So I definitely got that from her.
So that makes sense.
Then it wasn't just you and your sister.
She was they were keeping it from sounds
like she was very private.
In general, exactly.
Even yeah, towards me and my sister
towards before she passed away those
months leading up, like we kind of had to
figure it out ourselves.
Almost what was happening and we didn't
find out that it was as bad as it was
until a week before she passed away.
Interesting.
So that would have been that's traumatic.
Mm-hmm.
Do you think looking back at those ages
you were and Ash Ashton would have been
elementary school, right?
I was fifth going into sixth.
So another big transition.
Another transition year.
Oh my goodness.
We're going in middle.
Okay.
So do you think looking back it would
have helped you guys if
there was more communication?
I kind of go back and forth on this
actually because I still to this day
don't really know how that went down with
them deciding not to tell me like there
was one day I came home from school.
This was probably a month before she
passed away and randomly on my dresser in
my childhood bedroom.
There's like a stack of papers and it was
her medical papers that
had the diagnosis on there.
It said stage for everything.
And I mean at the time I kind of had a
little bit of better understanding about
it and I remember
bringing her the papers.
I was like, oh these were in my room and
I asked her I was like, oh, what stage
like cancer do you have?
And she said one but the paper said four.
So that was kind of when I started to
understand like they don't want us
knowing all of this.
But now that I had read that I kind of
had a better understanding but nobody had
told me that it was terminal or like
there's really no
chance of her getting better.
So I go back and forth because at one
point it's kind of like nicer that we I
guess weren't dwelling on it
for months leading up to it.
Like we still got to
enjoy our time with her.
She was kind of in
and out of the hospital.
We go visit her there.
But then at the same time I'm like I kind
of wish I knew because aside from the not
dwelling on it part like I wish I could
have I guess like made more memories or
talk to her a little bit more.
Ask her more questions like that.
Right.
Right.
And processed it more because you
probably spent I would assume a decent
amount of your life after
she passed processing it.
And it was kind of I guess I don't want
to blame this on my dad's part.
So I feel like the way he processed it is
he thought oh I have two young girls now
like I've kind of got to get them through
this and he thought getting us through it
would be by not really talking about it.
So we never went to
like grief counseling.
We never like as it was pretty much like
after she had her celebration of life
like my dad tried to have us
like kind of move on from it.
He was problem solving.
Exactly.
And he thought that was the best way to
do it kind of belittle what had just
happened not in a bad way but just no no.
It in a sense of let's move on with life
like I think I only
took one day off of school.
She had passed when a Saturday I was back
in school on a Tuesday.
It was kind of like right back into life
because I guess that's what he thought
would have been best.
So it was almost an avoidant route.
Exactly.
Yes.
Okay.
So it with that going on and your dad
saying we're just going to keep going.
We're going to you know your mom passes.
Your dad is like I'm blown away.
I'm sorry that you took
one day off of school.
I'm still processing that right now.
I was thinking the week
that she had passed away.
She passed away on a Saturday that week
leading up to the
Saturday was fcat testing.
Oh wow.
At this point we knew that she was going
to eventually pass away.
But she had told my dad she wanted us to
still go and take the fcat.
She was like my girls need
to go get their education.
Yeah.
All these things.
I went to middle school took the fcat and
then I would go home after unbelievable.
Honestly, so and she was already thinking
ahead as a mother does you know and I
know your parents definitely did what
they thought was right for you guys.
But still there's an emotional element
there that probably wasn't
dealt with or acknowledged.
And so did you feel a responsibility to
acknowledge that for your sister and give
her the space for that?
I did in a way.
I feel like if anything once everything
happened like it definitely brought
Ashlyn and I closer.
I would say more so a few years past
everything happening.
I feel like I internalized everything.
I kind of dealt with things myself in the
first like two or three
years after it happened.
I kind of just kept to myself about
everything and it was more so I guess I
was battling with myself as opposed to
what I wish I had done and kind of took
it on like that motherly
role in a way.
But I would say like definitely now I
feel like more of a like I mean, I know
my sisters 25 now, but I still feel like
that like motherly kind of instinct
towards her like right.
Help her with everything do whatever I
can for her maternal instinct exactly.
But at the time, I definitely feel like I
kind of took the route where I was just
dealing with it myself and kind of
isolated from everyone.
Did you both kind of do that?
Did you both kind of go your separate
spaces and and cope with your mom's
passing in your own way?
I feel like in a way we at the time like
again like with internalizing it we never
really properly coped.
So I don't quite know how she I guess
moved like forward from it.
Because I mean, I don't know how much she
remembers because she was I think 10 or
11 at the time, but I feel like we both
like how we were kind of almost shown to
do just to move on keep going like we
both didn't know what each other were
like thinking about it.
They weren't one to talk about it.
My dad never talked about it.
So it was all very much to ourselves.
Is she is she as shy as
you would say you are?
Are you different?
I think we're different from what I know
about her like high school experience her
middle school experience.
She was kind of had
like a big friend group.
She was kind of more out there like she
was you know, like doing
things after school like more.
So I was kind of like go to school go
home towards like later in high school.
I tried to get like more involved with
things like I was in like
leadership and I did like Decca.
So I was trying to get
myself more out there.
I was like, I'm kind of tired of being
like right by myself in a way like in
being like the quiet person.
Right.
So do you feel that with your mom's
passing it compounded your shyness and
your quietness for a while because you
were self isolating.
Definitely.
That's how you were coping my when I
probably chose to end in my eighth grade
year after it happened.
I would go days without
saying a word at school.
Like I would go to school.
I'd set lunch like I would sit with a
group of like people who were in my
class, but I would never speak.
Freshman's sophomore year to same thing.
Like I think I had a group of friends my
freshman year and I would go sit with
them at lunch and I
would not say it worked.
I would just kind of say eat my lunch.
Like I was so to myself with everything
and I didn't want it.
I was not one to share about what was
going on in my life.
So nobody really knew like
how much of a struggle it was.
Did they even know
that your mom had passed?
So one of them she's still one of my good
friends this day, but she had known she
was there the day she passed.
She came over her friend.
There was a good family friend like a
good friend from kindergarten, but she
was one of the friends.
But I feel like she also didn't really
know how to what to do because I had
always been super shy and super quiet,
but that definitely amplified.
So you were kind of functioning in your
own little bubble for like a few years.
And just just coping
and grinding through.
How long would you say
you stayed in that state?
I want to call it a bit of trauma, a
little bit of a state of trauma.
You're functioning.
You're high-functioning trauma.
Exactly.
How long would you say you
existed in that that state?
I would say honestly going probably.
I think halfway through college.
I kind of started to realize that like
dealing with this trauma and like
everything from growing up.
I started you know,
like going to therapy.
I was like therapy is not a bad thing.
Like at the time after my mom had passed,
I thought therapy was a bad thing just
because we were never
brought to a therapist.
We were never given that option.
Right.
I mean, I think I saw like the school
guidance counselor in middle school like
once when I went back the
day at like that Tuesday.
I saw a guidance counselor but I had
always kind of had this
like negative stigma about it.
I guess halfway through college by then I
had kind of forced
myself to almost do a 180.
Like I forced myself to be more social
which like it was a good and a bad thing.
I feel like I put myself out there in
good ways in bad ways.
I made like a lot of great friends but
then like it kind of started
catching up to me like that.
It was kind of an act that I was like
this okay all the time.
Yes, that makes sense.
So then I started kind of seeking some
help there which definitely really helped
me because you went from internalizing
everything and not sharing anything with
anybody and self coping to then the exact
opposite and being out
there and being probably
boisterous and loud and
partying and all that.
I mean Florida State like yes, but that's
a shock to the system.
Exactly.
Well, there's a lot of shitty people out
there too that you
weren't interacting with now.
You are.
Exactly.
Yes, big shock.
Yeah, like I would go to school go home
like I wasn't you know, like I had my
little friend group but I wasn't making
friends out of that.
I wasn't like really talking to anyone
and then all of a sudden none of my
friends really went to Florida.
None of them actually
went to Florida State.
So wow.
It was okay.
Immediate have to make new friends.
So you get through high school.
I'm just I have to go back.
I'm shocked that your middle school did
not deal help you more.
Which school did you go to?
It's on Estridge.
The guidance counselor met with you once.
It was the Tuesday after it happened.
She or she didn't even
pull me out of class.
It was my fourth grade or fourth grade
fourth period science teacher had met.
She said to me that day.
She was like, oh, Kirsten like the
guidance counselor wants
to see you during lunch.
I went and talked to the guidance
counselor during lunch.
One of my friends, the one friend from
elementary school came and sat with me
during lunch in her office.
And then I think that was the last time
that I spoke to her.
It's crazy.
It's yeah, I kind of wish
they did reach out and work.
Like I said, I was not one to reach out
or like go to the
guidance counselor myself.
And you were a child.
Yeah, I'm just I'm blown away.
I I'm I'm that you didn't have teachers
even that were aware of what's going on
because you are the child.
And it's not up to you to
tell adults what you need.
The adults need to take care
of what you needed at the time.
That day that I did come back, my
teachers did know almost all of them had
said something to me when I came in
because I did miss a lot like that week
before I would go to the F count.
Then I would go home and I
wouldn't be there for school.
I had one teacher tell me I didn't need
to make anything up.
She was like, well, that's good.
Yeah, I did have a couple of teachers and
one of my teachers was
my mom's good friend.
So she was definitely very
understanding, very comforting.
When I came back, that was good that I
walked in the class.
That day, I'm sure.
Goodness. What are you doing here?
I'm sure.
But I feel like it definitely
that's what I was wondering.
Were there female?
Were there women in your life in those
few years after your mom passed that
reached out or were
there to support you at all?
So we had the neighborhood I grew up in.
My dad still lives there.
So we have made pretty much
a lot of close connections.
I had some friends in the neighborhood
who were good friends with my mom.
So in the beginning, it was kind of like
they were reaching out a lot.
But as time moved on, I mean, they had
their own lives like that kind of thing.
I don't blame them.
You know, they would check in when they
could kind of thing.
One of them is still like
super close with Ashlyn.
I to this day really like lives behind my
dad, good friends with him, but it's kind
of like, you know, like
they have their own lives.
Yeah.
So it's not like they
could be there all the time.
But I feel like they still did make a
pretty positive impact.
That's good.
Do you have family members, aunts or
cousins or anybody that
lived close at that time?
So at the time, I would
say more so on my dad's side.
We're not super close with them.
Okay.
So there wasn't really
any support from there.
And then my mom's side,
she has four brothers.
One still lives in Minnesota.
We don't really talk too often.
And then the two other
brothers, one was divorced.
So we didn't really have, you know, like
his wife and then the other one married.
She would again, like kind of from time
to time, but not super involved, but she
definitely did make that effort.
And then what about grandparents?
So I did have my, so my mom's parents had
passed away by then.
I think my mom's dad passed away when I
was seven and my mom's mom
passed away before I was born.
Okay.
And then on my dad's side, I had my
grandma and my grandpa, but my grandma, I
think passed away two years later.
She was extremely close with my mom.
So she took it very hard.
She was very, very sweet lady, but kind
of around the time when my mom passed
away, her health started declining.
Okay.
So then it was kind of more so she
couldn't be as involved
as she probably wanted to.
Okay.
So you're an island unto yourself
basically and then there for your sister
when needed, when you were able to be.
But really you got, you were going
through high school, you're getting
through high school, but putting yourself
out there with Decca, with leadership.
Did you play sports?
I did.
I did not actually in middle school.
I had done track and then high school.
I'm just not a coordinated person.
I did try.
Yeah, but I was more so trying to just I
guess get involved with the non athletic.
Okay.
I did it.
Did doing leadership doing Decca, did it
help you with your shyness?
I think more so leadership did just
because I did meet two of my still
closest friends to this day.
Mm-hmm.
If it wasn't for doing leadership, I
don't know what the rest of my I guess
high school experience would have been.
I don't know what I would have done.
Yeah, it definitely did kind of push me
out of my limit, but I still was a guest
in leadership that like shy quiet girl.
And just to explain for listeners who
don't know what leadership
is, how would you sum it up?
I guess I would say it's more it's kind
of like a student government, but it's
not so much like everyone in there has
like a you know, like a
treasurer or vice president.
It's kind of like a class you apply an
interview for and then you kind of plan
all the events and all the fundraisers
pep rallies like all kind of the I guess
like school spirit or
yeah, you're very involved.
Yes, and it's a large group.
Yeah, there was they had like an upper
and a lower like a freshman sophomore,
probably 30 kids, junior,
senior, probably 40 maybe.
Yeah, so it isn't just like you said like
six kids that hold a government position.
It's it's an actual group that's very
involved at the school.
So yeah, I would imagine that helped it's
it but you're still internalizing your
soul in your bubble.
You graduate you choose Florida State.
You none of your friends go there.
So you get there you're
in the dorms your roommate.
You didn't know I didn't know I ended up
getting or I picked a roommate.
I did the whole Facebook meeting a
roommate thing because back
then they were doing that.
Yeah, so I was part of
like the FSU class of 2019.
And I had met this girl I met so I had a
summer and a fall
roommate both different.
My summer roommate we ended up getting
put in a three three.
So we had a third additional room.
Okay, I didn't even
know if you had those.
Yeah, it was a three three and then we
had like the two suite
mates on the other side.
Okay, but we end up getting along great
with our third roommate, which was good
because we were kind of oh my goodness.
Yeah, you and I have been
talking for months right now.
We have a third but it ended up working
out perfectly and the same
thing with my fall roommate.
We were in a tutu and it
just ended up being great.
And that's wonderful.
So good friends with them.
I would say my summer roommate the one
that I had met over Facebook her and I
are still super close.
Wow, join the same sorority.
We met like a third week.
We were like a little trio and I'm still
super close with all of them to this day.
That's great again, like super great.
Yeah, that's great.
So you joined a sorority.
I did.
So that was probably another thing to
help you that helped you
break out of that shyness.
I would assume I would say so.
I feel like I still probably going
through the sorority.
I still had my close group of friends
where I felt like I could be more I guess
out there or like more vocal and kind of
like I want to say like be more myself
and feel more comfortable.
But then when big group settings even to
this day big group settings, I feel like
a little bit more kind of a listener or
in the background than being.
Like the main, you
know, the main character.
Exactly.
I'm more like in my friend group, like we
all can have our main character moments,
but in like a big group, I feel like I
can be like a little side character,
which honestly doesn't bother me as much
as it probably used to and
kind of like okay with that now.
But in the sorority definitely feel like
I was a side character.
I did do some sort of
position holding there.
They had like a relay for life.
I was there like contact for it.
So I was still trying to put myself out
there in different ways.
I guess that I felt
like would be good for me.
Well with your leadership experience,
that would have made sense too.
Was your sorority one
that was super social?
I wouldn't say it was the most social.
It was definitely I would call it more of
like a we were definitely more into like
the kind of like
philanthropy like sisterhood aspect.
Like it wasn't like a
big sorority on campus.
Like it was definitely one of the more
kind of I want to say like low key ones
wasn't anything I guess what they call
like talk to your right.
Right.
All those like sorority rankings.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was definitely more I
guess the low key side.
So then for sophomore
year, did you move off campus?
I did.
I got an apartment with the one girl that
I had roomed with my summer semester and
then the one of the girls we
met through our sororities.
So it was like the three of us.
I lived with them my sophomore and junior
year and then our senior year we ended up
moving into a townhouse and we brought in
one of our other friends.
Okay, so then we just did that for senior
year, which was super nice.
We were worried about bringing in a
fourth because the
three of us were so close.
Yeah, it ended up working out perfect.
So when during that time, were you did
you make that decision to do the shift
and really jump out of the like pop the
bubble and jump out?
Do you mean like socially or yeah, I feel
like honestly like right when I got there
because I had kind of given myself that
pep talk leading up to going there.
I wanted to be more out there.
I did not want to just like I said, I
would go to school days
and I would not even speak.
I was kind of like I
don't want to do that.
I don't like that.
It's not make me feel good.
So I feel like going
right into freshman summer.
See, I kind of just jumped right at it
like all my like my roommate.
At the time was like, oh, like we're
going out to do this.
Like do you want to come and that's
something I would never do.
So, you know, I like
why not like I'm here.
I'm in college like I'm
seven hours away from home.
Like this is already scary enough.
Like why not add a
little more scary to it.
So I feel like right from the get go and
then definitely the first year or two, I
kind of wasn't thinking about like, you
know, like being quiet and like how I am
really putting myself out there.
And then I kind of started become a
little bit more aware and I was like,
okay, let's bring it back.
Like I know this is FSU where like so
many things are going on, but like you
don't need to go be a part of everything.
Right, right.
I mean, how courageous of you though,
because you talked yourself up.
You hype, you were your own hype woman.
I did.
And you made that conscious decision at
18 before you started college.
I'm going to change the trajectory of my
life a little bit here.
I'm going to challenge myself because
especially if you if someone shy and
they're not used to being social, being
social is a skill that they need to
practice repeatedly in order to find some
comfort level with it.
And you went right into I mean going to
college is scary for everyone, let alone
you're coming from, you know, such a
traumatic situation and then you self
protected for years.
So just to put yourself out there.
Yeah, it's so courageous.
I think back you were
so young doing that.
I know and I kind of think of it as
almost it was kind of like a
fake it till I make it almost.
Yeah, I knew what being social was like.
I know I'd seen it all my years in middle
school, high school.
I'm like, I know kind of what to do.
It's just not doesn't feel natural.
Doesn't feel comfortable, which I mean,
it definitely didn't feel comfortable.
Yeah, now I feel like to being 27.
I'm at a point where like I'm more
comfortable with it, like still in big
group settings or if I don't
know people, I'm definitely.
Still more on the back burner.
Like I kind of takes me a little bit to
kind of ease into it, like ease into the
conversation, like be a part of it.
Definitely still more of a listener, but
I definitely feel more I guess kind of
like internal like okayness and
happiness, like almost like a little bit
of a sense of confidence
in those situations now.
Right.
Like a social setting.
We're settled with it.
Yeah.
And even if I'm not like the main person,
the main character talking or even if I'm
just like a side
character, like I still feel like.
Okay with it.
Whereas like growing up, I was like, oh
my goodness, like I'm contributing
nothing to this conversation.
I'm weird or like I'm awkward.
Do you do you think it helped when you
went to FSU that you kind of went without
friends and you're
went there on your own?
Yes, I honestly I did think about it
before I told myself I was like Kirsten.
Nobody really knows you at FSU like sure
there are people from Boca high like
going there, but nobody really knows you
like because that was one thing.
I guess like going into my
senior year of high school.
I was feeling a
little bit more confident.
I had my like little group of friends
that like, you know, made me feel good,
but I was still like everybody knows me
here as like the shy girl.
I can't go into a class and start
automatically social there.
I mean, like what is this girl doing?
Right?
What happens?
So I kind of was like,
this is the time to change.
Yeah, no.
Awesome.
And especially for FSU
because it can be Boca high 2.0.
100%.
So it's such a rare opportunity you had
there where at least for you it was going
in like no one really knew you exactly.
That's that's great.
Now was there.
You said that you had a point where
you're like, okay, I need
to rain it in a little bit.
Did something happen?
Was there a moment that made you go?
Okay, this is getting a little crazy.
Yeah, because I feel like kind of how I
said like I leading up to this point.
I had still never really like sought help
like about like my mom's passing or like
growing up kind of, you know, dealing
with my struggles of being like super shy
and quiet and alone.
So I kind of again like when I went into
FSU, I'm still so happy.
You know did it went for it, but I kind
of pushed to the back burner all the
struggles that I did have.
So then I feel like I
ignored it for so long.
Like I just you know doing things with
friends going out tailgating like all
those things that like such a
big part of like FSU culture.
Yeah, it distracted me from it.
And then it got to a point where I was
doing it like so much like I was just
like either like going out like like
exhausting my social battery.
I had like none to begin with and then I
was just like draining it and I got to a
point where I became like super sad.
Again, like kind of like reverted back
like would not leave my room
just kind of all hit me at once.
So then I did end up like I did reach out
to a few of my like good friends.
I had made there and I was
like, I'm not doing well.
This is this is not
good for me kind of things.
So then I did start going to FSU's like I
guess like the little therapy office they
have there through the school,
it was nice because that's another thing.
I'm like I would think
therapy so expensive.
And then my friends were like we're one
of my good friends this day.
She actually reached out to FSU's I guess
like therapy office.
I don't know what I would call it, but
she reached out to them for me and then
they reached out to me.
Wow.
And then I started seeing a woman there.
Did you know she was doing that that she
was reaching out to them?
I kind of had a feeling she never
explicitly said it until I
got a call and they were like,
oh so and so reached out to us and it
wasn't like I didn't
take it in a bad way.
I reached out to her after I was like,
thank you because like I don't know if I
would have found kind of the
strength to do that myself.
That's a friend.
Oh no.
So one of my like greatest friends.
Yeah, that's a real friend.
And so then you started therapy and I
started therapy probably I think I did it
for about a year and a half.
What grades was this at FSU?
This was end of my sophomore year and
then I think I did it until about midway
through senior year.
So for listeners, especially young women
that may be in those college years
struggling, you're a testament that it's
okay to go to the
therapy office on campus.
It's so okay because I
was kind of scared too.
I didn't know if I was going to be seeing
kind of like a grad student or like
someone similar to my age.
I didn't know who was going to be seeing
because I'd never gone to therapy before.
And was it an adult therapist?
It was an adult therapist and she was
super understanding.
I felt comfortable.
I mean the first session I was
definitely very uncomfortable.
I don't think I told her I
guess to the extent of anything.
I just kept it very surface level.
I was like, I don't want this woman
knowing my business.
Yeah, I'm a little nervous.
Like I don't feel comfortable telling her
and then probably
like my second or third.
Like slowly opening
up more and then I did.
Yeah, about a year and a half.
I think I saw her and then and he was
towards my end of my senior year.
I kind of just stopped because I was
like, I'm gonna be leaving soon.
Like I'm kind of feeling
like I'm at a good place.
Like if anything I can
pick this up back and both.
It had to have been life-changing.
Oh my no, it's not changing.
That year and a half had to have been you
and probably unpacked.
No, a lot.
How much stuff?
It had to have been so liberating.
It was because I mean, I had never been
able at least like I would vent,
to Ashland or I would sometimes vent to
friends, but the friends never really
knew what I was struggling with and I
have a lot of them recently who have
told me who have dealt
with like similar things.
They were like, I never understood like
how impactful it was when you were going
through it and now I understand what you
were going through and it's there.
Some of them have
apologized for like, I'm sorry.
I wasn't there for you more.
Like I just didn't
understand which is like valid.
I mean, I know a lot of
people don't get it at that age.
No, no and and also.
What advice would you give to friends or
family of someone who's lost a parent?
How they can approach that person because
I know a lot of people are uncomfortable
with that and don't know what to say.
Don't know what to do and maybe you were
so into yourself for those first few for
a lot of years after but even now if
somebody learned your mom passed like how
can people what should people do?
What can people say if they are at a loss
on how to connect or be there for that
person?
I feel like it's still so tricky because
I feel like at the
time when my mom passed
if someone asked, you
know, what can I do for you?
I'm like the type of
person like no, it's fine.
Like it's okay.
Like I don't need anything.
I feel like people shouldn't I guess
believe like the
surface level of like what
they're saying.
I'm trying to think I feel like obviously
saying, you know, like I'm here for you.
No matter what but then again, like if
they're like me, I'm
not going to reach out
to someone.
I'm going to be like, okay, I can take
care of this myself.
I guess even more so I wish I had people
that kind of would
bring me to like do things
like invite me to kind of not be by
myself all the time like
invite me like the movies
the beach like kind of like I don't not
in a distracting way,
but just kind of someone
to bring me out of like my little, you
know, like depression
room that kind of thing to
me to just do that little extra effort to
be inclusive exactly
and to plan something
and be like, come on.
We're doing this.
Would you like to come and would like
acts of service kind of
like even if it's something
as small as I made you some brownies.
Yeah, you know, or I maybe
it could be a random thing.
I saw this candle, you know, make you
feel like I guess less
isolated and less alone
whether you get acts of
service and worth of affirmation.
I feel like definitely feel nice.
Yeah, just to keep that connection
exactly to not let that person
completely disassociate and isolate but
just to keep that
connection to the humanity.
Exactly.
You know, like you knowing other people
are thinking about you
and then trying to bring
you in out.
Maybe is yeah, just those little things
and for some people
that's probably easier than
figuring out what to say because figuring
out what to say,
especially if it happens when
you're young, you're
surrounded by young peers.
They're not going to know what to say.
No, nobody knows.
So no one knows but even just those small
just something small
like that's that's great
advice.
Honestly, that's really great advice.
It's huge because I had a friend whose
mom passed away when we were younger.
No one dealt with it and it was I it
still kind of haunts me
to this day because nobody
reached out like appropriately or as much
as we could have no
one knew what that person
was going through.
Yeah, it's hard because yeah, nobody
around that age
really has to deal with it.
So it's like very valid that you know, my
friends and my peers
didn't know but I guess
yeah, if I was to give any advice to
people that age that
have like a friend or family
member going through that type of thing,
just you know, let them
know you're there make
them feel included, not so isolated.
And if you do see them isolating,
definitely do something.
Invite them out to do something coffee,
lunch, like that kind of thing.
Go to Whole Foods and buy a
couple snacks and bring it over.
You know, just something to keep them so
they know they belong still so they don't
completely disappear.
Yeah, I do have a question.
Prior to you talking to the counselors at
FSU, your one friend
who made the call, right?
How how into it were you able to get with
some of those friends
that were close to you?
It almost sounds like the counselor was
the first person you
really went kind of deep with.
I have a couple friends, the two girls
that I had lived with
most of college, they knew
that I would struggle with it.
Like I would have some like days or some
nights where it really affected me.
But they again, like had never
experienced something
like that themselves.
So they didn't really
know how to deal with it.
It was kind of more so.
They would be there for when I would be
like very upset or very
sad over it and just like
super overwhelmed with it.
And then I don't want to say it would go
away or they would they
didn't like just, you know,
like brush over it.
Like they were definitely there for me
like in a very big way.
But it was never something where I feel
like they knew the full
extent until when I was
finally able to like talk to a therapist
and I was able to open
up about it more like they
didn't know, I guess, how
like alone in a way I felt.
And how you were carrying it with you
every day and it never went away.
Right.
That's probably what people also don't
know is that it becomes
your new normal and a part
of your personality.
And and until you had that moment where
you went to therapy and
really talked about it,
it was that extra baggage you were always
carrying up with you.
So did unburdening some of that with your
therapist also help
you open up to the people
around you about the loss of your mom?
Like honestly, I feel like kind of being
able to open up about
it in like a professional
setting with someone who, you know, knows
the right questions to
ask and knows how to make
you feel comfortable.
Like I feel like I wouldn't be able to
share all of this now if
I had never kind of deep
dive with them because now I feel very
comfortable talking about it.
I'm if anything, I'm a
little more open, I guess.
Like now I don't feel kind of odd sharing
it with people or feel
like it's like a weird
thing to share.
Like if people ask me like,
oh, like what is your mom do?
Like I don't feel uncomfortable
expressing what happened.
I was just thinking that how remarkable
it must be or how
remarkable it is that you're
actually sharing this with us when it
wasn't that long ago, right?
What five, six, seven years maybe.
Yeah, six years ago.
I was like kind of a
little weird about sharing it.
But now I feel like I feel like if
anything, this is what my
mom would want me to do.
She's like she was
like the most comforting.
The sweetest person ever.
And I know she would.
She would want this for me to feel like
okay with it and not internalizing.
Yeah, like making it drive me nuts.
100% speaking as a mother 100% but also
it's a way for you to
honor her because you
probably talk about your mom
more now than you ever have.
Yes, because it's okay, right?
And it's more definitely I guess like in
a positive light than
it used to be because
it would be like I'd have to feel like
I'd pride out of myself
and it would be always
be something that would
just make me feel sad.
But now it's something that makes me feel
kind of more like light like it's kind of
it's nice to talk about her because I
feel like it's like the
memory is still there.
Do you ever get signs from her?
I sometimes feel like I do like if I like
think about something
for a little bit and
I'll like look for a sign like you know
sometimes I know this is
like such a common sign.
I feel like people use but like a
butterfly like one of my
dad's my dad's college roommate's
wife.
She was really there for us when my mom
had passed but we
didn't really know her before
it was kind of more so my dad was like
this is your aunt like
yeah gonna be there for
you and she would come down often and she
was here the other week
and we were all laying
by the pool and we were talking about my
mom and then all the
sudden the butterfly flew
by.
So like little things like that or I just
kind of like if
something works out for me
or like if something good happens to me.
I honestly am like thanks mom like I kind
of like think it's like her doing.
Yeah.
Oh well I believe in it 100% that they're
there and when you
think about them or talk
to them they're there.
I 100% believe that I'm a big butterfly
believer the Cardinals numbers Angel
numbers like there's
a lot of things but I I hear
he's he's more of a skeptic.
No, I believe I believe at 100% so what
did you study at FSU?
So I kind of went into college.
I love still love fashion but I kind of
realized I guess more
post-grad it was like more of
a passion than a career.
So I did product development and
merchandising kind of went
to like FSU's little fashion
school which still
like I did learn a lot.
It still was very fun because it was not
so much just I guess fashion-based.
It was also very business-based.
So I it's almost like a business degree.
I would say yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
And so then you graduate and
did you move back down to Boca?
I did as soon as I moved down.
My dad had sold our childhood home.
So I moved into an apartment with him.
Yeah, he it was funny.
He has his little group of friends and
they're all divorced now.
So they had like an open house.
So it was all of them living together.
We called it like the frat house.
So he lived in this
frat house for a few years.
Then he moved back into the neighborhood.
We lived in but just downsized homes.
Wait wait wait.
So he owned a big home with a bunch of
other I assume your dad's
Genex.
Actually, he's a baby boomer.
How old is he?
He was born in 1961.
So he was like right on the cusp I think
but yeah, no, he's a boomer.
Yeah.
So so these boomer guys and maybe older
Genexers, I don't know are all
living together in this house and they're
all divorced all divorced.
It was his best friend
whose son I grew up with.
He had gotten divorced and my dad was
like my dad just kind of once
I graduated school and Ashlyn went up.
He's like I want out of the house.
Right.
I want to sell it.
His friend was like come live with us.
Like come live with me.
Oh my gosh.
And they were just like it was just them
too like mostly but they
would have other like of their friends
come and stay with them.
Like it was a decent sized house.
So that was there for like a year and
then he was like, okay, like
this is so you didn't live with them.
So you got your own place.
I got an apartment relatively close.
But then he moved back into the
neighborhood we grew up in but
just downsized.
Do you know why he went
back to that neighborhood?
I think it's almost a source of comfort.
They my parents actually got
married in that neighborhood.
There's like a little park.
They got married there.
I mean growing up.
We had all of our birthdays.
My mom's service was in that same part.
Okay.
And then like I said earlier like some of
the neighbors that were
really like great family friends.
They're still in there.
So I think it was kind of
like a source of comfort.
Yeah.
Which Ashlyn and I were super excited
about him moving back there
because at the same time we do feel sad
that you know, we don't live
with him and he's by himself and we want
because we can't be there
as much as we would love to all the time.
Right.
So it's kind of nice to know he has a
sense of community where he is.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So what was your first job out of school?
So I worked as an event coordinator at
this one jewelry store was
Kendra Scott.
Yeah.
So I was an event coordinator there for I
think about almost two
years.
I think I quit a
little while after COVID.
Did you enjoy that?
I did it was I guess I mean, I don't want
to call it like a big girl
job.
It still really wasn't at that point.
It was just kind of like I graduated and
I need to like get a job
right now.
Yeah, but I met some like great girls
working through there.
Obviously, I liked fashion.
So I love jewelry.
I love the discount.
Yeah, but it was nice for a little bit
and it was fun because I was
working on like the event side.
They do a lot of like give back events
and like just special events
in the community.
So I got to like meet a lot of like
important like fun people got
to do a lot of you know, kind of like
self-fulfilling things that
I knew were like good like
giving back to the community.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it was more so I guess just kind of
like a good feeling type of
job that kind of goes in line with
leadership and then what you
did in your sorority and then
now now you applied it here.
So it was probably good for was it good
for networking as well.
It was I definitely met a lot of people.
People who you know, had their own
charities have their own I guess
like galas start a lot of startup
businesses, which was good.
So definitely did meet a lot of people
through the community, which
I do think about, you know from time to
time the fun special things
they would do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then where did you go from there?
So then I kind of quit almost on a whim.
So the one thing I hated about that job
was I had like a very very
awful manager and it kind of just I
reached my wits end and I was
kind of.
I was like, I'm ready to stand up for
myself and I'm ready for
quit.
So I sent in my two weeks had no idea
what I wanted to do for a
little while and then I had a friend who
I was kind of like I
still no idea what I wanted to do.
I was like, I don't know if I
want to go like a nine to five
row.
I don't know if I want to,
you know, go get a master's.
I had no idea what I wanted and she was
like, oh, like if you
want to come work with me
at Hooters, it's good money.
Like it's the easiest job ever and I was
like, okay, like why not?
Yeah, started there.
I think I was there about two
and a half maybe three years.
It was one of those jobs where I was
like, oh, I'll be here for
four months and then right.
So how would you describe to someone what
it's like to work at
Hooters because I mean
there's a lot of assumptions.
Oh for sure.
Yeah.
What's the reality?
So I would say definitely like the
assumptions that there are
weird people that come in there like
there are weird people.
Yeah, but I would say more so
the store I worked at being in
Boca.
It was more on the nicer side.
Like I did deal with a lot of families.
Okay, as opposed to like the one random
guy who could come in
by himself type of thing.
Yeah, which I mean is definitely very
different than I expected.
I expected to be there for four months
have to put up with a
lot of random things
and like just suck it up.
Yeah, and then I went there and there was
actually like normal
families or normal people
that would come in which I found
like extremely shocking, right?
But we were I guess like a franchise
store and I guess when
you compare franchise to corporate,
corporate is very different.
Oh, and you know in what way it's like
the uniforms like we
had just our normal white orange shorts
tights like they were
like it gave to wear like crop tops like
they had a different
type of shorts that were like they look
like a diaper shorts.
Oh my goodness.
And I guess they would just get in
general very different
clientele as opposed like my manager was
very much so gearing
towards like families or like college
students like he did not
care for the old men who would
come in by themselves like on
a random Tuesday, right?
Right, right wanted.
He was very good about making sure we
were all comfortable
and he wanted to kind of gear the
clientele towards nicer people.
That's wonderful.
Yeah, it's definitely different than I
thought it would be.
We've done some how many
birthday parties have we done a few
we've Nathan had one there
when he was in eighth grade and
Dylan I think had a couple
you you were part of the one of
those parties server.
You are server.
Yeah, it's fun.
Yeah, so I've always but I
never thought of it that it's an
because it's in Boca because of the way
your manager ran it.
We felt comfortable going there.
Yeah, it was a family place.
Yeah, it was a family place.
And so I never once because I would have
some friends be like
or family be like Hooters and
I'm like, it's not like that.
That's what that's exactly what I would
tell people when I would
tell them I work there.
They give me a look.
I'm like, no, I swear like
it's not what you're thinking.
It's not it's not as I guess everyone
assumes where it's kind
of like, oh like a trashy year
like weird kind of place to go
or work at or very
sexual exactly that you like.
I mean, yeah, there would be
people that would come in and
I could immediately tell off the bat.
I'm like these people are going to be a
problem like they're
going to say some weird things, but it
was more so my mindset
whenever I would go into work
was kind of I'm in a costume.
I'm playing a character
like I'm here to make my money.
I'm here to leave like I never mixed.
I guess my personal life and working
there like I kind of
would just show up clock out go home.
Yeah, that's great.
Never got caught up in that.
Did you ever run into where men made
passes at you or like
inappropriate
inappropriately touched you?
No one's ever touched me.
I know there were girls
that would have someone try to
inappropriately touch them, but then like
a manager would get involved
like immediately we would
call the police if needed.
There was a couple times.
I think while I was there
with the police had to be called
just if someone was like rowdy or if
someone was being like
way like crossing lines being
weird, but I would have like
the men that would say kind
of something inappropriate and
I would just kind of like
brush it off, but I would kind of
say something back in a way
that would just shut it down
immediately.
So they knew that I wasn't
gonna yeah, entertain it.
I guess yeah, yeah, yeah,
because I mean everyone has their
ways of making money there.
Some people will entertain it and you
know, they'd probably
make more money.
I'm kind of like I'm not entertaining
this like I don't even
care if you tip me $0.
Right, right, right.
I'm not gonna partake in this kind of
banter back and forth.
Like I don't know you like that.
Yeah, you know what amazes me is the men
that think they have a
chance.
Oh, yeah.
No, that's the thing a lot of
men that go in there because
there's regulars
there like there's a lot.
Yeah, two sides them either.
They're actually very nice
people and like I tell they're
not creeps like it's just a
good spot for them and their
friends to get together and
then there's the regulars where
they walk in the door and
I'm like, oh my goodness.
Like what a great start to my shift.
Like this is gonna go bad.
Yeah, and they genuinely think that you
know, we like that that
we want to be their friends
that this is normal and I'm like
as soon as I clock out if I
saw you in public like I don't
know you yeah, yeah, they would think
that you know, this is
the place where all their friends work
and all these things
and I'm like, I can't imagine.
Why they would like how their
brain works to think they have
life. They have all the audacity.
Exactly.
They do.
They're the same men that hit on girls
that are 20 years younger
than them at the gym.
Oh, yeah, and it's just like why do you
think you have a chance
with this girl?
No, honestly, I would have again like
older men where like
I was like very nice.
Like I would like try and be
very bubbly and I guess like
some men would take it as a
way of like me like oh my god,
she's being so nice.
Yeah, like she wants
to go on a date with me.
She wants me exactly.
They would think that and then
they would get to that point.
They were like, what
are you doing after this?
I would love to see her
drink and I'm like, where are you
getting this like me being
interested from but they would
take just kindness for oh
my god, she wants to marry me
right now.
Yeah, yeah, I honestly
sometimes I think about if women only
had half the delusion as
middle-aged men, we could be even
10 times more successful in life.
We really need to be more
delusional like these guys because
it's mind-blowing that they
truly think that this girl is
going to want me or I have a chance and I
will never understand
it.
And delusional in what way?
What do you mean?
What I just said that they
think they look at a beautiful
young girl and think I have a
chance with her and when zero
but are you saying that you can go in
there and like Cougar
mode to a young guy?
No, no, I'm saying if that was no, no,
I'm saying if we had
delusional if we were as half as
delusional as middle-aged
men when they're looking at younger
women, we could you know,
do every dream we have just to be like
half the empowerment
of delusional.
Yes, like that confidence.
They have.
Yes, that confidence.
Yes, if we had that delusional, yes,
throw a couple beers in
maybe a couple cocktails and it's on
right now round a Buffalo
shrimp like they're ready.
Buffalo shrimp at a Foster's.
Oh my gosh.
It really blows my mind and
I'm sure you saw your fair share
of that.
Oh, yeah.
No, I mean, like I said, I
kind of tried to I mean, I was a
nice person while I worked there.
So a lot of people mistook it to them
when some older men or
even men my age would do it
too, which I found also very
strange.
Yes, I would have to you
know, divert that immediately.
Like I would I would I had
a boyfriend the entire time.
I worked there even if I
didn't I would write everybody.
I had of course.
I was a constant relationship
for those three years like no
matter what.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now, did you ever encounter
while working there women who
would get really
jealous or snippy with you?
Yes, so I would make sure if
I was ever serving a couple,
I would always try
and focus on the woman.
It's like the last thing I
want is this woman thinking I'm
trying to steal her man, right?
Which is always a time where I'm like
this man is you know,
like I don't want this man, but they
would always it's almost
they would sometimes have that self of
like delusion almost
to like yes, we're in this
restaurant and the waitress is
going to flirt with my man and
like she's going to steal him
or something like that.
Like there were always I think I
encountered it a few times,
but once I started focusing on
the woman, I never really had
a problem, but other girls I
would work with like the women
would be so rude like so
caddy like so snippy because they
would ask like their
boyfriend or their husband a question.
It's like we're like just
forget about our outfits.
Like we're servers.
Yeah, yeah, yeah what we're
doing here, but a lot of women.
Would take it like very wrongly just and
it's there they walked
into the restaurant themselves.
No one like no one is ready to go.
Well, they're there.
They have their own delusion
because they think everyone
wants their man.
And it's like no one
wants your man except you.
I'm like you can keep your man like your
guys are great together.
Like I'm just clocked
into work right now.
Like that's all I'm trying to do.
I'm just trying to serve you your food.
Like let's not make it tricky.
Yeah, exactly.
Did you ever get hit on by women?
I feel like there were a couple instances
where like some women
would come in and they were
like always like super like fun
like chatty like loud women and they were
just like like anyone
who walked by like if I would drop food
off, they'd be like,
oh my god, like you are gorgeous.
Like well, like he was more like
uplifting because I know
they're not trying to be weird or right
creepy like they would
do it in the water.
Maybe it's hard to know.
It's so hard to know if I mean then
there's the women that
obviously like women, but then there's
ones you don't know.
Right.
Yeah, like it's almost the
women who like liked women would
go about it in like such a
more almost respectful way.
Yeah, like the men like
just for example, what was it?
There's this one line that
I would get so many times.
It was like such an
inappropriate line, but I would get it
from like 15 year olds.
They were like, oh, can I get a chicken
breast like hold the
chicken.
God, they would do lines
like that and it would come from
high school or so.
I would look at them and I would be like,
where's your mother?
Where did you learn that
out of the repertoire guys?
Yeah, insane, but you mean
middle-aged men would say this
as well.
I feel like I did hear it
from like one or two middle-aged
men. I just would kind of
look at them and walk away.
It's like it's the
delusion we were talking about.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Do you have one?
Do you have any story that's really bad?
I'm trying to think so there is one.
I guess I can tell this story.
There was one regular he's
been since banned, but I guess
he was kind of one of those
that would get like banned and
unbanned all the time, but
he would come in every Friday
night and he would be coming.
I think he had been going
in since that store open.
So early 2000s every Friday night.
It's been there that long.
I think it was it was in one location.
I think for 10 years and
then move to where it is now for
10 years.
Yeah, same GM.
So he had been coming in for I
guess like 20 plus years every
Friday night.
He was definitely like very
like socially awkward, but like
my manager would use that as an excuse
for him to be able to
still be coming in but like
he would walk in the door and
we would all like run until the hostess
do not do not citizens
like not do not do not and there was a
point where he would
park. So when we would have
to come into work, we'd have to
park in a certain location.
Yeah, just so it's like safer
than like having to part like
in front of the restaurant
and seeing people seeing what
cars we drive.
He would park where we were parking.
No, and when we would all walk to our
cars, he would be sitting
that's predatory behavior.
Awful and mind manager be
like, oh, he's not a threat.
He's not a threat, but we
would hear all these stories about
things. He would do things.
He would say and once you
started kind of like I almost
want to say like again, like
how I said I was like a very
nice person like I could
definitely tell he was a little
odd like probably had some
like problems like something
like that.
So at first I was like kind
of like very surface level.
I was like I would just kind of smile
take his order leave
but then other girls started kind of
getting a little more
like I want to say snippy
but like kind of like like stop
accepting like like more
profession like just kept it dry
kept it like a dry almost
with a kind of like a sense of
like being like kind of
like back off in a way.
Yeah, you can't like setting some
boundaries exactly and
like he would take it the wrong way.
So then he would say like, oh, I don't
want to sit with that
girl. So then it became
like a smaller amount of girls.
He would oh my god.
Oh my gosh, and I think it
finally got to a point where
he like did something like inappropriate.
I think in like the bathroom
or something and then my manager
is like, okay, like you're
done, but it was like more so
a sense like he would get
banned and unbanned and banned
and unbanned like constantly and that
happened with like a
lot of regulars there.
They would get banned for
like a month and then they and
then they were allowed back.
And then yeah, how is that
even a thing to get banned from
a restaurant or a barn?
You've got to try I feel
like and I'm like some effort in
yeah, I'm like obviously your
band like they would be like
shocked.
Well, would would he get
banned from saying things?
It was just I think they did
more of a banning thing with
like you can't come in but
it would be more so like like
there was one guy who got banned a few
months before I quit
and then the last month I was there.
He started coming in.
So I think it's more so like
they kind of forget or stop
carrying that your band scenario.
But why were they banned like
are they is it because they're
saying inappropriate things or they
touching there was never
that I encountered any
touching while I was there.
It was more so saying
inappropriate things.
Okay, like there's the one
guy that I just mentioned that
would get banned and then
like a month before I came or a
month before I quit.
He was like back.
He said something like an
argument with one of the girls
like the girls said something.
He said something like smart
back like clever, but like a
creep.
Yeah, exactly.
Probably he's a creep and
they know like very very the fact
that he was parking where you guys Park.
So weird that's crazy.
Point where like we we would tell like
hey, yeah, he's parking
where we're parking like we
see him sitting in his car.
There was one time where like a girl
dropped her keys in the
parking lot and he got
out of his car to help her.
But luckily like we had really good
kitchen staff and they
all like ran the guy
like they ran at him.
They're like, what are you doing?
Like so then after that, you
know, they started, you know,
watching us walk to our cars
and he like wasn't allowed to
park there.
I think like the week he got banned.
I saw his car there.
That's crazy.
So were the men that worked at Hooters
naturally protective
of you guys?
I think so.
They were like, I mean, I
feel like any restaurant like the
kitchen staff is always going to be like
a little flirty like
especially working at Hooters.
But when it came down to it,
if there was any problem going
on in a restaurant, like the managers
were like pretty good
at it too.
But like the kitchen staff was always
like running from the
kitchen. Like they were they were out
there to protect us.
That's awesome.
Very nice.
That's awesome.
Are you still friends with
anybody that you worked with
there?
I am.
I mean, I like I said how I
kind of like would go to work
clock in the clock out kind of thing.
Like I never had like a like a group
there like a friendship
group. But like I was
always like very nice.
Like I would have good
conversation with all the girls
I work there.
Like I don't have like I never had any
problems with anyone.
So like if I like see them
like out about or like I see them
posting on Instagram,
I'm always like commenting.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I definitely like it's like a
very good group of girls that
work there, which I
was scared walking in.
I'm like, oh my god,
like working on a Hooters.
These girls are going to
mean or they're going to be like
they're they're just
going to be miserable.
But no, everyone was so nice and
supportive of each other.
That's great to hear.
I was I was shocked,
but they're all so kind.
Yeah, because you'd
wonder does it get catty?
Does it get competitive?
But the fact that you
support each other, that's awesome.
At least yeah, like my experience like
personally like everyone
there was like so kind
to me, which was so nice.
Well, I think about
you know, the shy girl.
Would you ever have thought
she'd be working at Hooters?
No way. That's why I feel like from like
what I was like growing
up to now.
It's definitely like a 180
like yeah, the Hooters thing.
That was very out of left field for me.
Yeah, I feel like I still had
that like little itch to like
do things that were like very
very out of my comfort zone.
Yeah.
Okay, so you worked at
Hooters for three and a half years.
I think about I think about
three, maybe a little longer.
Okay.
Did you ever were you ever
in one of their calendars?
It was I was in their calendar twice.
Wow.
I think the first year the first year I
was there in the second year.
Okay.
Did you ever have anyone
ask you for an autograph?
Yeah, so we would have
calendar signing events.
Oh, wow.
People would come bring their calendars
and we would sign them
and there was I think both years we had
to like I think it was
like FAU Homecoming or something like we
would go walk on the
field with sashes.
It was interesting.
It was very interesting.
Like we had a sash that
would say like Calendar Girl, but
we would have signing events
like at the store like Calendar
Girl signing.
They would give us like
Sharpies that said like Hooters
Calendar Girl and we would walk around
and sign our pictures.
So what was the average age of
the people the men that would
bring their calendars?
It was it was normally older men.
Really?
Yeah, I was hoping you
weren't going to say I was hoping it
was like 13 year olds.
I mean there was like the people like
there was like times
when like a father would be there with
his son and you'd be
like I'm going to buy my son a calendar
and like we would sign
it for the son like his son was too
scared to ask for one.
Like the dad would be like
the one to be like give us a
calendar.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, but um, yeah, I would
say for the signing events like
mostly older, but then you
know, we have to sell them like
especially for in them.
They're like you have to sell.
Yeah, so like we would have
to go up to every customer like
women men like everyone and be like, oh
do you want a calendar
which like I would always feel weird
doing something like if
I was sitting in a restaurant,
I wouldn't want someone coming
up to me to sell me a
calendar like right by one in one.
I would ask kind of thing, right?
But um, yeah, I would
say for the signing events.
It was sadly like older man.
And yeah, that's I was hoping you were
going to say 15 year
old.
Yeah, I wish and then you
guys got to go to like you said
FAU homecoming events and so were you
kind of like a little
celebrity in Boca with you?
Did you feel that way
as a Hooters girl or no?
No, I feel like I I mean
sometimes I'll think about it.
I'm like, yeah, like that is
like I guess what you would
call like a face your restaurant.
But I feel like it was at the time.
I was working there.
Like I didn't feel anything
like crazy like the calendar
thing like I was just in
like the Florida like they had
like a Florida pullout thing.
So I was just on that.
So it wasn't like
international or anything.
So it was like kind of like
on a smaller scale, but I never
felt like anything
crazy was coming from now.
Did anything lead from that?
Did it lead to any
additional modeling gigs or so I'm the
job.
I'm at now.
I do is it's like I would call it.
I guess like event staff and modeling.
So it's like bartending brand
ambassador modeling serving.
They found me I think through
Hooters in a way like I think
they had found a couple girls
that like it was again social
media.
They like reached out to me
through they had probably seen
that I had worked there and
they reached out to me and then
I started working that job
and that's still the job.
I'm currently working.
So I would say that job
definitely came from it.
So you left Hooters to go do
this job full-time because I
probably about two years.
I did both jobs, but it was kind of
getting to the point
where I was working like six days a week.
Like okay, I was working way
too much and then I think in
December I decided to stick with the one
event job as opposed
to Hooters just because I
feel like more can kind of come
of it.
It's like nice that it's something
different all the time.
So what do you do?
Like how do you describe what this is?
So I guess again, like I
would call it I guess event staff.
Like if you're having an event like a
gala, we do a lot of
like charity events.
I'm doing one this
weekend like a big one in Miami.
We work hard rock Formula One Beach Club.
So like a lot of cool
events, but then again, like it's
always something different.
Like I bartended like a kid's birthday
party in Jupiter and
like the parents like love it.
I've done modeling for different
restaurants in Boca for
their like Instagram and Fort Lauderdale.
I'm trying to think like brand
ambassadors like I've worked
a lot of trade shows.
I worked over the weekend some Fort
Lauderdale has some like
Supercar Saturday.
Like I was like trade
show model for that.
So it's always always
something to see you're traveling.
It's pretty much anywhere from I would
say Jupiter, but now
I guess Stewart.
So I was in Stewart for
like a an event twice.
I think two weeks ago.
It's anywhere technically
from Stewart to Miami, but they
do do across the US and
International now to like back
in November.
I was unable to go just because of
timing, but I was offered
to go to Qatar or Formula One.
Wow, I had to pass on it, which I still
am so sad about but a
few months before I got to go to Texas
for like one of their
endurance races at Circuit
of America like the big track
they have there in Austin.
Like we have girls that are
getting flown out by some one
of the girls for stagecoach and like
Coachella like I'm already
booked for Formula One in May like it's
it's like fun things
which like is exciting.
It's no it's so cool.
I mean and the fact that you
could end up traveling doing
this even further
internationally or domestically.
I mean the opportunities.
It's it's amazing and
the people that you meet.
I'm sure it's a wide
variety of people, right?
It's definitely a wide variety.
I've never had really a
bad experience with anyone.
I've met like client wise and kind of the
same thoughts that I had
going into Hooters.
I was like, oh my goodness.
Like all these girls are models.
All these girls are gorgeous like I'm
going to feel like an
outcaster.
I'm going to feel like
they're not going to be nice girls.
But when I had my interview to start
there the company is run
by like a woman and her
mother and they said straight up to
They're like we do not
hire like mean girls.
We do not hire girls that we think would
cause issues like anything
like that.
Of course, I was like, okay, like I feel
like everybody says that
but everyone I work with is like the
sweetest I get along with
everyone.
That's amazing again, like a big
comforting thing after my
first few shifts.
I was like, wow, okay, like this this
could work out women
supporting women exactly.
And it's funny.
We have like men to like little like
barbacks or like men
bartenders male models like
and everyone supportive everyone
is so nice, which is like so great.
Have you met any celebrities?
Are you allowed to tell us?
I mean, I've definitely worked some
events in Miami that are
like like Art Basel.
So I've definitely seen a lot down there.
And then when I worked Formula One my
first year, it was actually
a brand trip whose tables I
had so I saw a lot of tik-tokers
and Instagrammers, which is super cool.
Cause I was like I had been with the
company for like two months.
So I didn't expect to be like in charge
of a whole brand table.
And yeah, yeah huge thing and there was
like every I noticed
or recognize everybody else.
Like oh my goodness,
like a little nervous here.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm out of my league.
Yeah.
Have you found that your social media
presence has grown since
taking this position?
I think honestly once I
started Hooters because my manager
back at Hooters was very into
the social media like for his
for the Hooters page.
So like he would have
us doing a lot of videos.
So I started getting like a following.
I want to see a following
like it's not that many but like
I can write followers from
that and then this job as well.
I did gain like some following from
people just because you
know, they'll post on their
social media and then like part
of the thing is like we post
when we work because I mean we
work in such cool places like
it's like oh my god, how can
I not post about this?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So then definitely from that I
feel like you gain a sense of
a following I guess.
Yeah.
Yeah for sure.
So again, you're using what
you learned in leadership to
what you learned in your
sorority to what you learned with
the event sales Kendra
Scott, the event planning and even
Hooters like dealing with
people talking you're still using
even a degree.
Well and and it's
tying in with your degree.
It's all tied in
together to to this job circle.
It's full circle and it all
ties into your evolution with
being shy to now be more outgoing.
It's really amazing.
No, it's because yeah, like high school
middle school me like
if I told them what I had
been doing like now like or just
in the past year or two,
they'd be like, oh my god, like
yeah, what do you mean?
Like how does that happen?
She'd be very proud of you.
So and very excited, you know, knowing
it's all going to be
okay.
Exactly.
You know, so so do you get a
lot of like DM like at Hooters?
You were dealing with men face to face.
Do you get a lot of inappropriate DMS?
I do from time to time.
I would not recently.
I feel like since like but Hooters like a
lot of them had stopped
but I would get DMS like there was one
time where a man like
photoshopped himself like on
an Instagram photo of mine with
me like very very weird.
I have a scroll to show you a screenshot
later, but it was just
like I opened it.
I was like, what is this like?
So on like you would send odd things but
I like I never answer
them.
Like I don't think I if I don't know you
like I'm not answering.
Yeah, even people I know because again
like kind of doing that
like evolution, I guess from like how I
was in like high school
middle school and even like
the first few years of college to
now like I'll have people kind of like
almost like circle back
and they'll send me a message.
I'm like we never spoke like years ago.
Why do you feel the
confidence to send me this message now?
Like we're like I know what's going on.
Yeah, like that kind of thing.
Some people have all the audacity and
they don't think you're
going to catch on.
It's like I know what you're doing
exactly like now that I
you know, I'm not super shy and like
yeah, it's not coming
from a place.
It's a great you're not super shy.
So are you more confident than now?
Yes, I would say so like like I don't
think high school me
would have had the
confidence to do like the job.
I'm doing now.
I don't think I have the
confidence to like come on here
and share all these things about me and
even just like confidence
about like I guess like just even as
something as simple as
like how I dress like in middle school.
I would go and like a sweatpants and a
big teacher every day
like would not put effort into like my
hair my makeup which
like you don't like necessarily need to
do but like it makes
you know, like it makes me feel like
pretty sometimes and now
it's like I feel the
confidence to kind of like look at my
best and put my best foot out there.
Yeah, you don't mind.
So now you don't mind
being seen or as maybe before.
Yes. Yeah, I feel like
that's a good way to put it.
You're not making yourself small anymore.
No longer invisible.
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, more
comfortable kind of I guess.
Yeah being seen.
Yeah, you're not dimming your light.
So in all of this journey that you've
been on have you had
any relationships dated anyone?
Yes, so I did I would say it
have two one definitely more
serious than the other relationships.
But um both were just like
big big learning lessons.
I would say what did you why
what did you learn from them?
So one of them I knew from
high school, but we again, I was
very quiet very invisible like
we did not interact but I knew
of him in high school and we
dated pretty much immediately
after I got back from FSU.
We had met jumped right into it.
We dated I think almost
two years broke up very like
abruptly like it was not my
doing it was his doing got
together like two months later.
Did like it hit the family.
It was like disastrous.
I was not okay for a while and then flash
forward three years.
I got back together with him.
I was like, oh he's changed.
Yeah, this is gonna be great was not
great in what you know,
sense whatsoever.
So it's kind of I guess like a learning
in that relationship
kind of like they
really really don't change.
No, no, it's it's never it
never works going back again.
It doesn't and a lot of times they they
can sense when you're
starting to move on also and that's when
they suddenly appear
it's like a superpower.
They have I don't know what
it is and they put their best
face forward and then then the veil is
lifted in and they're
the same person.
No, that's what I think too
is kind of like like you said
like a veil is lifted
like in the beginning.
They have this mask on like
to get you back to that point.
You're kind of like really
deep in it and then they're like,
oop.
Yeah, just kidding.
What was the main issue would you say?
I would say almost I don't want to say I
would say communication
was a big one, but I feel
like also what he didn't want a
relationship almost at certain points.
Like I felt like I was kind
of a like a bother almost like
it was like kind of like he wanted to
live his life and if
it was ever something like
to do with me that like didn't
work for him.
It was like the end of the
world like all my fault like that
kind of thing.
He was he never prioritized
you know more of a convenience.
Yes, I would say more convenience.
Usually guys like that are narcissists.
Yeah, like I feel like he
was definitely like narcissist
and then I would say he had that like I
guess avoidant attachment
style which made me
have a very anxious one.
Yep, and it was kind of like
I thought like I was not so I
was like is my the
problem like am I the reason?
For all of this and it wasn't
until being removed from the
relationship probably a couple months
like probably back in
like November December.
I finally kind of saw the
light and I was like like I had
been out of the relationship
for like maybe three or four
months at this point like
thinking like oh, I'm like such
an issue like I like
made him break with me.
Yeah, he were probably ghastly.
Oh, yeah, and then I kind of
like looked back to it and I
was like wait a minute.
I was just asking for the
bare minimum and it was kind of
again, this is like embarrassing on my
end when he was breaking
up with me.
I was kind of making it like
you don't even have like he
lived kind of like an hour away.
I was like, oh you don't even have to
like come up and see
me if you're busy like I'll ask for less
like that's embarrassing
on my part.
I think about that now and I cringe.
I'm like, you're so what are you doing?
Like right right disgusting,
but it was kind of like I just
thought there was like
no world without that man.
Yeah, so I was like willing
to literally settle for below
below bare minimum.
Yeah, but I think women have to go
through those relationships
to learn what they will and will not
tolerate and you have
to learn that before you get married.
Oh for sure because so many
women don't and then they marry
that guy and then you
bring children into that.
It's a whole thing.
It's a whole issue.
So it's good.
I always tell Hi, I'm my
daughter that these are stepping
stones leading you to who
you're supposed to be with and you
need to learn from each one
right because it's leading you in
the right direction and I think
recognizing when you're being
gaslit for women is huge.
Yeah, huge definitely in the moments.
I had no idea that I was being gaslit.
I was kind of like it was
almost like I thought that's how
a relationship was supposed to be.
I thought it was normal.
I thought it would be a
phase, but then I'm like we're on
a like combined like of all the times
we've like been together
and like broke it up like
combined like four years of being
together at this point.
I feel like yeah, and I'm
like nothing nothing has changed
but still in me.
I'm like he could be better.
He like once we figure this
out or once, you know, and they
know it's settled and they
know they're not going to change
and they know that you'll do
anything to keep you they know
I like they play it.
Is that the pattern this I'm
asking more for you that that
the avoidant leads to anxiety
which leads to maybe doubling
down your effort to
have them not be avoidant.
Is that the sort of the cycle?
So the avoidant typically
triggers an anxious attachment
or if you're anxious or if
you're prone to maybe being
having anxious attachment, they will
definitely trigger it
even stronger.
Okay, but then what happens
is with the anxious attachment,
they're trying harder with the person
which then makes the
avoidant more avoidant.
Yes.
So the more the anxious
attachment person tries the more
avoidant person pulls away.
So it's this horrible cycle and the
anxious attachment person
is just keeps trying and trying and
trying and giving away
more and more and more of themselves.
Well, and what's cool for
you what made me ask and think
about it is we have this
whole dialogue going on with some
of our previous guests and listeners
where women are kind
of learning that as Gen X
later and now they're walking
away and they're done.
It's good.
You've got it now at your age.
You'd avoid it.
You know, your generation there.
They're 10 million times
further along than we were.
Yeah, first of all, a lot of this
information wasn't available
to us.
The internet wasn't available to us.
So it was a lot easier to gaslight us
because we were like,
I don't know, you know,
but it you guys are on it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The secret's out and and
guys are being held accountable,
but and correct me if I'm wrong.
I are the guys in your
generation more prone to want a
situation ship than a relationship.
I feel like in my experience,
I would say yes because I feel
like a lot of people my age,
it's just more convenient for
them than to because I feel like it's
more so like kind of
how we talked about earlier
like in the past like people
around my age, like it's time
to like get married have kids
like settle down like now.
I feel like a lot more
people are pushing that off.
So they're kind of looking for more of
those no strings attached
like super casual and I feel
like a lot of people like I
think it's just more more common.
Is that a is that a male and
female thing like a girls your
age is also saying I
really want to be attached.
I'd rather keep it kind of casual or is
that you think that's
more the guys I would say
honestly more guys because I feel
like with me.
I'm kind of like how I said
earlier, like I'm not in a rush.
Like I'm kind of more of like if it
happens it happens, but
like I'm not gonna like
actively seek it if it finds me then
it finds me kind of thing.
But I feel like a lot of
guys are out there like with my
experiences like that.
I hear from my friends because like I
have friends that are
like actively trying
to find their husband.
They're like out there looking and
they'll like find a guy
and then they'll be let on
for months and then turns out he
doesn't want anything
serious type of thing.
Yeah, like a lot of the
girlfriends that I have.
I feel like if they're dating they're
dating for a purpose.
If they're not dating there like how I
said if it finds them
it finds them if it doesn't you know,
they're fine with it.
So what advice like what I try to
understand is how for the
women in your generation.
Why are they putting up
with that for so long?
Like why are they not?
Do they not have their demand say and I
say demand that sounds
aggressive.
Do they not have their
standards set yet and they're in the
process of figuring it out and with each
time the guy doesn't
follow through then they then they raise
their standards more
because I feel like a lot of times
they're giving guys too
much leeway instead of being like now.
This is a red flag or this
isn't this crosses it or this
is not I deserve more.
I want more right.
You you're not going to
meet me like even by the
second day.
They're like no, I feel like
these guys are getting so many
chances and why do you why do you think
that is so I definitely
gave that one ex-boyfriend
like multiple chances after like
you should not have gotten them like I'm
talking like chances
after like being unfaithful like being
disrespectful like the
whole nine yards and I'm
trying to like put myself back in
that headspace of like why I did that.
Yeah, think about it a lot.
I'll be sitting and I'm like Kirsten.
I cannot believe you put up with this.
I cannot believe you excuse
this because it got to the point
where it would almost like I don't know
if I was just so deep
in it and I was like, this is what I
meant to be doing like
I meant to like marry this
person like I would put up with
so much and then I would
almost let him again like back to
the gas lighting.
Yeah, my fault.
Yeah, like it would be my fault.
He did this like it would be my fault.
He cheated.
It would be my fault.
Like it was almost like my fault.
I caught him like in a
yeah, yeah, and so then it just
again like I was at such a
low point with all this stuff
that like I would just like take it.
I'm like, yeah, like I
guess it was my fault.
Yeah, I guess like this is
on me like I had such a low.
I don't want to say self-esteem because
it wasn't self-esteem.
It was just like a low or just
like a bad perspective on love
and a bad perspective on how a
relationship should be and
it got to the point where
like Ashlyn or like some of my
friends would be like Kirsten.
This isn't normal and then
I would kind of be like, all
right. Well, I'm not going to tell my
sister or my friends
anything he does because
they're just going to tell me
Kirsten. This isn't normal
right in my head like because
I still held this guy on such
like a high standard and like
a pedestal. So I didn't want my friends
or my family to hate
him. Yeah, they spoke negatively.
I'm like, no, but like I
would again like shift blame on me
when I really shouldn't have I'm like,
oh, well, no, like I
did this like I got upset.
He was out until four in
the morning and they're like,
that's a valid like what do you mean?
Yes. Yes.
Yes, that kind of thing.
Yeah, and trust me women my
age did that too and I've done
that. So that's the thing
women do you get so far into it
and it's almost like an
addiction to the potential right
you're waiting for that.
I've been in it so long.
I can't give up now like I can almost see
he's going to change
I'm in too deep.
Yeah, I'm in too deep
and it's going to happen.
But I almost wonder if situations
situationship culture
did not exist for us.
So either you were dating or
you weren't yeah, and dating
wasn't as big of a the word dating.
Didn't hold as much weight
as I feel like for the younger
generations when they say they're dating.
It's like almost like
engaged like they view it like hold
on.
Yeah, we can't say we're dating yet.
Whereas we would just be like, okay,
we're dating now after
like a couple weeks and then
if you break up you break up
but there wasn't a situation
ship like if you're with someone
you're with you're with them
and I almost wonder if I think
this is a situation ship
culture has hurt the women in your
generation definitely and it's allowed
these men to kind of
get whatever they want.
It blows me away.
No, he's like I'm in
the wrong generation.
No, blows me away.
No, but it's definitely
true because there are so many
situation, situationships
like situations that I've like
seen or like been a part of
where it's like, it's like I
think they like that like
no strings attached thing.
Yes, and like you said they get away with
it with no consequences
because they were
never officially dating.
So it's like I can do whatever I want.
There's no label, no labels like that.
I think they get like a sense
of comfort and like power from
yes, the word labels that wasn't a thing.
It was just we never even
thought about it like that and
we were just like oh, it's at my
boyfriend my girlfriend where
I think the younger Gen Z put
such weight on this label and
it's like but I think and some young
women might get mad at
me, but I think it's it's on
the women to change it because
yeah, because the guys will
keep taking advantage of it.
I agree and it's almost like
and and and young women may
not date for a while until women stop.
It's a it's a it won't
change exactly if that makes sense
kind of like I said how I like I think
back about how I acted
in that relationship.
I'm like, oh my god, like it
like what like stand up here
soon. Like what are you doing?
So now I feel like I'm at that point
where I'm like, that's
not something I would accept again.
And so that kind of I guess
would break the cycle with me
that kind of behavior
because now I'm like no matter how
deep I am in a relationship now.
I'm like, I'm not going to accept the
disrespect that I used
to. Yes, I feel like if you
know, which like sucks that you
have to go through it
to get to that point.
Yeah, you know, it made me like a
stronger person in that
time. 100% and again,
you learned it young.
I mean, there are women that
hold on for 10-15 years and
they give away their baby
ears and I and I know people have
also written in about me
saying that but I'm sorry if you
have children you have to
be conscious during your baby
years of who you're with.
Yeah, like what you have to
like, you know, I don't want
to say put up with but in a way put up
with like what you're
willing to have your kid
go through with you as well.
Yeah. Yeah.
So that's a great way to think about it.
I hadn't thought about it that way.
Whatever you're signing up for if you
have children, you're
in it together.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's and and and
young women do need to think about
what kind of father is this
person going to be and I know
it sounds like uncomfortable and
everything especially when
dating is such a heavy
label, but as dating for purpose,
you hit a point where and
like you said it could be any
time. It doesn't mean like
next year, but still also valuing
your time and energy and who you're
giving it to and not
everyone should have not everyone
deserves access to you.
Right and it's kind of like
if you're in the position like
man or woman where you don't want a
relationship and maybe
you want like a situation
ship or just like whatever like
it's kind of important to be open.
Yes, both sides about that.
Like if you're both in
agreement, like this is a situation
ship beautiful.
It's great lovely, but like if someone's
not on the same page
and that's like, yes dangerous territory
and it's up to young
women to voice what they want.
Yeah and not it's you know,
it's say I'm I'm not comfortable
with the situation ship.
So if that's what this is,
let's not I can't do this, you
know, and so but it's it's hard and
that's why I feel like
too like with women having
to vocalize like they're not
okay with the situation ship.
I feel like women will start,
you know, seeing a guy and it
will be months down the road
and they're just waiting for
the like let's be exclusive
or like let's be boyfriend and
girlfriend.
They're just waiting and then
it gets the point where it's
like a year later and they're like, oh, I
never wanted something
serious.
So what's the time then?
It sounds like there needs
to be a time frame like women
need to be like, okay by two months or
three months thinking
two to three months like but they need to
do that for themselves.
And after two to three months, it's
almost like saying, okay,
I want to label exactly like
no label no mean like I'm out.
Yes.
Oh, I like that.
No label.
No me.
There you go.
I like that.
No, but it's true.
I think there should be a movement.
Yeah, let's announce it now.
Well, the movement starts right here
right now two to three
months girls and then you need no label.
No me.
That's it.
That's it.
Where were you?
I don't even know
what I was going to say.
I don't know if I should even tell the
whole situation ship
is fascinating to me.
That's a new generational thing.
I think I don't know.
It's been going on at
least for 10 years now.
Yeah, I would say right.
Yeah, I feel like college.
I would hear about it more.
I don't know about high school.
Yeah, I don't know towards the
beginning of my college years
where the first heard situation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean for us we miss that you miss it.
I wouldn't have been
a good one with that.
There's no way I would
have been like a month.
No label.
No me.
Well, here's here's the
thought I had was one of the things
you talked about is how your
generation communicates more
openly with one another as
compared to say our generation
and so I mean is that even
a is that a thing or is that
something you're starting to
learn now where you kind of
do have to you're saying two
to three months, but do you
communicate that I don't
know if you do it right off the
rip, right?
It's like maybe it's like two
three weeks in or how do you
know there's some mechanism.
There's an event that
happens where you maybe start to
communicate.
It's probably awkward to
bring it up right off the
door.
I think like on the dating app.
It's not like by by the 90th day.
We're having this, you know, you're on
board on your calendar.
I expire at 90 days.
Yeah.
There you go.
It expiration date.
Pink.
I know I'm like the dating apps now.
They have like most of them have like a
section that says like
looking for short-term looking for
long-term looking for like
life partners.
So I mean, I guess they made it like a
but again like who's
going to put like looking
for short-term dating app?
Like I feel like that's just like
automatically like everyone's
going to be like, oh, he's
all the guys are going to say
whatever they think the
girls want to hear exactly.
So it's like because I agree.
I haven't been put in that
position in a while where it's
like it's time to have the conversation.
Yeah, so I don't really know.
Like in my head.
I'm like if I'm dating someone for like
two like two to three
months, like we said, I feel
like I would at least bring up
like an exclusivity thing.
Yes, because I know
when you first started.
You're dating people like
you're going to you know, like
date around.
It's not like you go on a date with like
the first person you
match with on hinge and
you're like, this is my man.
Right.
This is my husband.
I'm not even going to give anyone a
second look like, you
know, it's like normal for you to you
know, go on a couple
first dates and send me to seconds.
I'll meet the thirds, but I feel like if
I'm like seeing someone
consecutively for like two to three
months and I feel like I'm
at that point where I'm
like, I am only seeing this man.
Like I've filtered through
the rest like this is this is my
then I would kind of bring up at least
exclusivity hoping it
would lead to a conversation
about maybe, you know, putting
a label on it like that kind of thing.
And I would assume if it was that guy and
he had that potential
that you see him that way.
He would want to say
I want you exclusive.
Like I don't want you.
Yeah, I don't want you out there.
So I mean, I would I would
love it if men actually had this
conversation before the women
had to have this conversation.
It feels like our back in
our day was 30 days, right?
By a couple weeks or so, you're kind of
exclusive or so, but
by 30 by day 30, it was like yeah,
starting to pick up.
Yeah, do you feel like you
guys like in since it was like a
smaller time frame that I'm
saying now you would see each
other more often in those 30
days like or it was just kind
of like no, you know, we had we had we
had less access because
we didn't have
technology or social media.
So we might see each other
maybe before after school maybe
in passing and then on the
weekends would go on dates like
actual date, right go get
food, you know, or go to a movie
or go to a party.
Right.
Like that was very common usually in a
field somewhere, but
I feel like it almost feels
like it but it could be me but
I feel like we maybe jumped
into it as in our generation kind
of got into it a little bit.
If you found a person you
like and they liked you you had
that great attraction and
infatuation type of thing and
you went into it, you know,
what I think it is, you know,
it's on and everybody else is kind of
doing the same thing.
What it is.
There was no there might be
something better out there.
So I'm going to put this
person here, but I want to keep open
for other options and I think that's
social media and I think
that's technology
because you like that person.
There was not a
hesitation online shopping.
There was no shopping apps and it was
like I like this guy.
I'm going to date him and if it doesn't
work out, we'll break
up in three months and then
maybe I'll date somebody else.
But there was I was not I had
no access other than the guys
in my high school.
I had no other access options.
You think about it keeping up with the
Jones's was for your
parents, but now with social
media and the prescriptive,
you know, Instagram posts and people
traveling all over the
world and you feel
like you're missing out.
We didn't have that.
There was no there was no comparison.
Now.
Yeah, I think social media definitely.
Yeah, ruined the like classic dating and
like that, you know,
meeting someone out like now it's like
you send them an Instagram
DM.
You mean him on hinge.
I think more people meet
people on online dating than like in
real life now probably will go out to
like a bar and they're
like scared to yeah, like I'm just going
to go swipe on hinge
later.
Like I'm not going to go talk
to someone and that serves men
more than women because men have access
to look at women online
and kind of like pick and choose.
Yeah, it's like a variety
almost like I don't want to say
degrading because I've
definitely been on like the dating
apps before but I feel like in some
senses like I feel like
a little odd being on them because I'm
like all these people
are looking at me right now
like not in a sense where I'm
like, oh, I don't want to be seen but I'm
like all these people
are looking at me judging
like whether they're like I want
to match with this girl.
Oh, no, like I don't like
no, it's it's the anxious.
It's giving people access to to women.
It's giving men access to
women and they haven't earned it.
Men should earn acts.
Everyone should your friends
to everyone should earn access
but men certainly
should earn access to women.
But these dating apps and
social media have given access
to women freely to men.
I think that's part of it.
It's a little scary because
I was it I think like a month
ago.
I had downloaded hinge.
I think I had it for maybe 48 hours.
I was like I this is this is too much
like I don't like this
and I talked to a lot of
women have the same thing.
They're like, yep downloaded it for two
hours and I was like
nope, like no doing this.
I don't think it really serves women.
It's more of a man.
It serves more more.
It's more for men.
Exactly.
You know, it's
unfortunate but I do feel a turn.
I feel like more and more of your
generation once old-school
organic meetups.
I would hope so.
I mean, that's what I want
to do like yeah organic like I
don't want to because I did when I
downloaded hinge for
those like 48 hours.
I think I went on two dates
from there and first of all,
like I struggle with my
height being six foot like I never
like I want to feel small
and these both of these men had
said they were 6 4 I get there.
I'm I level with them.
So they didn't lie about an inch.
They let about four inches.
Whoa, that's so common like I
could say I've heard everyone
always tells me they're like
if they say, you know, they're
six foot there 511.
Yeah, I'm like 6 4 like it could be 6 2.
They could be 6 3 but 6
6 even I level with me.
I was like what like
they got I didn't work.
You asked without heels right?
Yeah, I'm like I wore my like zero
platform shoes, but like
I just and then like those
two dates like I immediately
like got like different
vibes in person than I did online
and I was kind of like a little tricky.
It's like multiple personalities exactly.
I was like online.
You seem so nice so bubbly and now I'm
here and you're giving
me the same vibe as like an FSU frat boy
like immaturity level
like this isn't what I was
thinking it was going to be.
Yeah, yeah, and I almost
wonder if girls your age are going
to start looking more
for men in the early 30s.
You know, I think I was heading there.
I think I'm heading in that direction.
Yeah, because I like seeing or I was
speaking with Ashlyn
and her boyfriend and her and her
boyfriend have been together
three years like they make me
believe in love like they are
like the perfect couple like
and when I was dating my ex
she was dating her boyfriend Josh and
like I would in my head
compare like I would see Ashlyn say
something to Josh and
then I would say something to my
boyfriend and he would like
freak out at me, but then
Ashlyn's boyfriend was like
I'm like like yeah, like so well.
I'm like like I would always
like compare it but then I see
like how great their relationship is.
I'm like, I know
there's something out there.
Then like I see how happy they are.
Yeah, but they had the
conversation with me a few days
ago. They were like Kirsten
like I think you need to look
for like like early to mid 30s.
Yeah, you might be right.
I think I think by then a lot
of men have have evolved have
matured and are ready for a
relationship, you know, and not
everybody I know I'm
generalizing but I think in general
a lot of women do better with a man
that's a few years older
just because everything kind of meets.
Yes, you know at that when
you meet your person, I always
tell my daughter you're not
supposed to feel confused.
And if you feel
confused, it's not right, right?
You're not you don't
have any of those feelings.
It should fit like a puzzle piece, right?
And it should not be hard and
you should have no doubt that
he's so down and he's so into you.
Yes, that's it.
I see a lot of that online
girls will be like, oh you don't
want to come on too strong
and you it's almost like they're
saying that girls should
almost I don't want to fake who
they are but put on
like a persona like that.
They aren't who they really
are just to get past like the
first few dates and then
show who you are like I'm like,
I want to be authentic
right from the start.
100% like you don't want to say that
because you're going
to seem crazy.
I'm like you could say that and not be
crazy if that's like
the right person for you that like
understands and embraces
that.
Yeah, that's that means
that's not the right person.
You're trying to figure you're gracing
them with your presence.
That should be the attitude.
It shouldn't be I need
to adjust myself for him.
He's lucky.
I'm here.
I'm giving him access to me.
I'm going to be my authentic self.
And if that doesn't work,
he's not the right one for me.
I'm not trying to be
the right one for him.
Right and that mindset
needs to change is that with the
slight less aggression.
How you describe that.
Yeah, so I'm coming from a mama bear.
Yeah, but that that's the
shift that young women need to
make is if he does if I am
not if I'm too much for him or
if this isn't working for him.
He's not working.
This isn't right for me
exactly because it's way is wasting
your time.
And you don't want to put on a fake
persona your whole life
of being something you're
not only live once exactly.
You need to be who you are.
Yeah, you don't want to tone yourself
down just because you're
too much for me.
Also, if you change yourself, what if
that is your guy, but
you're not being yourself.
You made me miss him exactly.
So then you think you're being away.
You think you're supposed to
be and then off your guy goes
and he was your guy, but
you weren't yourself, right?
You were acting like someone else.
So you have to you have to believe in
yourself enough to be
yourself and then whoever
is your person is lucky.
They found you and you're
lucky that you found them, but
it's real because
marriage and life is hard enough.
You don't you have to be
real right from the start.
So I hope I hope I hope that that
authenticity really takes
over in the dating world.
I hope that there's a swinging of the
pendulum the other way
because you guys don't even get that
first impression, right?
And it's seen them on social media.
You see their photos
that you already know.
There's no like I don't know anything
about this person like
you you do your research.
Yeah, it's kind of hard not to sometimes.
Yeah, there's really.
Yeah, there's really no like I want to
call them blind dates,
but I would almost
call them blind dates now.
Like if I went on a date with someone
like I know their name.
I know what they look like.
So it's not really blind, but I don't
know anything about them.
Like yeah, I don't think people
experience that these days.
Like yeah, no, not knowing
anything and you almost wonder
would they be comfortable with that?
Just with that weird them out like
because then you have a safety
issue.
It's hard out there.
No, there's like two different extremes.
It's like you want to like
kind of go on a date with someone
you don't know just because
you know, you don't want to make
any presumptions.
You don't want to go into it like having
already like thoughts
like you want to go in a clean
slate and you also don't want
to go on a date with
like a serial killer.
Yes.
You don't know what you're walking into.
Yes.
No, it's tough.
It's almost like you need your girls just
to go to the restaurant
at the same time.
No, actually.
And if it's that type of situation just
because now I think there's
guys that don't have social media because
they are sick of it,
but then the girls are like, oh my god,
he doesn't have social
media.
I can't go out with him.
He's like, no, it's a tough
situation for young men too.
I was thinking you have
to use mentioned earlier.
Girls are going to drive the
change and I think you know, you
drive the demands, but the guys have to
grow the fuck up to at
the same time.
Absolutely.
There's this meeting in the middle.
I think men have young men have gotten a
little spoiled here.
I think they've gotten a little extra
access that isn't necessarily
deserved.
They've gotten away with too much.
It's time to rain it in girls.
I do think it'll come back
because you can't inauthentic
living is hard.
It's it's too time-consuming and ain't
draining and it's just
exhausting.
So who doesn't want to be around real
people and say they're
real be yourself.
They're match.
Yeah, you want to be able to be yourself
now since your mom's
past since she passed did your
relationship with your father
strengthen during those years?
Is he someone that you could talk to
about like relationships
with guys or any of this stuff?
So once my mom passed so I guess I should
preface with growing
up like my mom was to stay
at home mom and my dad worked.
He had like a car
dealership out in Okeechobee.
So it was kind of like we would wake up.
He'd be gone.
Sometimes he'd be home for dinner.
We were not very close
growing up like or yeah, the car
dealership was not physical car
dealership was very far.
So he was you know gone a lot.
You know, we see him on weekends family
vacations, whatever,
but we were always very
much closer with our mom.
We did everything with our mom.
Obviously we like loved our dad, but we
didn't have like the
best relationship with him.
And so we kind of felt like
once our mom died, it was kind
of like he was like, oh my god, like I
have two daughters now
like by myself like both going into
critical times in their
life and like I said earlier how we
never, you know, got to
like talk about it with a
professional or even with him like
he brushed it under the rug a lot, which
like I think he kind
of regrets doing now more so
but in his mind, he was kind
of like I have to like in his mind be
like the best dad, but
like in his mind being the
best dad was kind of being like
a yes, sir, like not yes, sir.
Like a yes, yes daughters.
I guess like whatever you want kind of
which like we definitely
took advantage of which like
I mean, I appreciate like he
was trying to give us everything in the
world, but emotionally
he lacked like a lot on that.
Like this is acts of love.
Exactly.
Was giving you guys whatever you wanted.
And so like we, you know, grew up with
that like mindset like
oh like like we were very
fortunate with what he would give
us, but like we would always tell him
like like emotionally
like we did not have a good
relationship with him like at
all like we were it was
like Ashland against him.
And so we that like also
like added to like a lot of like
issues growing up and like
kind of like I don't want to say
trauma, but it was like
traumatizing at certain points.
Like they were just no one
got along and so it was like a
very hostile household like
he had his own demons because
he's same way like he didn't
deal with my mom's passing like
he did not take it well at all.
And it just I think I did not
have a good relationship with
him until I got out of college and we
both live separately.
He lived in those little frat house.
I lived in my apartment.
Now we have like a super good
relationship like I do what
I can for him like he's getting older.
He has like his health problems.
I take him as doctors
appointments like Ashland.
I are like very good with him now.
Like yes, he has his moments
where we're kind of like okay,
like you need alone time for
a little bit like we're going
to leave by growing up did
not have a good relationship.
And I guess like now like
circling back to what you said,
like do you feel like comfortable like
talking to him about
like relationships or anything like not
so much like we again,
I don't have to say this in
like a nice way because again,
love love my dad, but like
sometimes I feel like that like
father-daughter relationship
is not there and sometimes I
feel like we're more like like family
members like not that
specific relationship like sometimes I
feel like if anything
I'll parent him like that kind of thing.
So it's it's a little tricky.
Yeah, definitely improved
like drastically though.
Did you guys ever have a
moment post you going to therapy
and everything where you
did discuss your mom's passing
or that time have you had that moment?
No, like there's a lot like I
mean we'll talk about our mom
like we have like a Memorial tree for her
in our old neighborhood
like every like Mother's Day or birthday
or like your anniversary
of her passing like we'll go bring
flowers like you know,
we're able to talk about her in a way
where like nobody gets
like upset or emotional but
like I still have not been able
to have conversations with
him about like, you know,
like why did we not tell Ash
and I what we're going on or
like why did we not like seek
help like that kind of thing
like if anything I feel like
we just got super isolated with
him like there was a time
where like yes, we had like other
women in our life that would like, you
know step in but again
they have their own lives, right?
So just be the three of us
and like it was like if we get
pretty intense from time to
time but now I feel like even
I said something the
other day like growing up.
I were talking about this earlier.
I had a fear in me instilled
by him about like the highway
like I did not drive the
highway until a week ago.
Really?
I drove on it.
I learned this earlier.
Yeah, I drove on the highway.
I think once when I had a driving
instructor and then the other
time was on accident like
the road on Palmetto was closed
in the only way was to get
on the highway almost cried.
But then I started driving on
it a week ago, but this fear
was instilled with me from
him and Ashley made a comment
the other day because before I just
decided, you know what?
Like I'm just going to do it.
I was going to go see a behavioral
therapist to try and
like talk me out of this irrational fear.
I was having that was like
specializing in fears that were
like instilled in you by your parents.
So Ashley made a
comment to him the other day.
She was like, oh, Kirsten's
going to go see a behavioral
therapist to like unlearn that fear that
you know, like instilled
her from she was like 10 and
I think that kind of like made
him like think a little bit about like
the repercussions of
like, I mean, I know like
that's not like a big thing, but
no, no, it is I guess it is
just kind of like as the concept
of like how things that were
we dealt with as kids still
affect us to this day.
Yeah, even Ashland said she
was like it looked like a light
went on his head like oh my
god, like my daughter's having
to go to therapy because I instilled this
silly feel like fear
in her.
Yeah, but I feel like if
anything like thinking about it, I'm
assuming he kind of started
to think about it a little
more like how everything that we
went through as kids were
still dealing with right from his
actions. Does he know
you went to therapy at FSU?
He does.
Yes.
Okay.
So you guys still have a
lot to unpack with him.
Yeah, and it's like
I don't know if we'll I mean, I hope
we'll get to that point
where we can but I feel
like it's like very tricky.
What's what do you think?
So I'll do you back from just saying
hitting it head-on be
like a dad make it back make
a you guys all cry together
or something, you know, it
breaks the ice type of thing.
Is there anything
holding you back from that?
I don't know.
I feel like because I still
don't really know like where
his head was at with
everything because there was like a
lot of like there was
a lot of moving parts.
I feel like that we still
don't know the full extent of but
we would hear bits and pieces from like
family members about
how he was dealing with it.
And then obviously what we
would see was not good coping
from him which like was
not good not fun for Ashlyn.
I go through and I feel like
bringing that up like it's a
little scary because I don't want to
relive that like those
moments, but then also it's
like again, like we have such
a better relationship now and
I feel like as I've grown up.
I become more like
empathetic and like more kind of like
seeing other people side.
So like at the time, I'm
like, oh my god, like my dad is
dealing with this so awful
like he's an awful person like
blah blah blah, but now I'm
like, oh my goodness, like my
dad literally went from you
know, like he was not like a
stay-at-home dad.
Like he was a worker like he
worked hard to all of a sudden
being in charge of like two
girls like right at crucial
ages having no idea what to do, right?
So like I empathize with him with that
now because I'm it's
tricky.
It's hard.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It may get to the point where you find
closure on your own.
That's what I think like we're at a
really good place now.
I'm kind of like I almost
like part of me is like I don't
want to un-dig it and he
seems like kind of like he seems
he's better now.
He's good now.
Yeah, I don't know if I want
to hash all that out again, but
I feel like there will be a day at some
some point in my life
where we do talk about it.
It's just I've never found
the time to bring it up and I
feel like if I have in a
slight way, it's always kind of
once again like
brushed under the rug, right?
I think two things come to
mind and I'm not looking to rock
the apple cart here for you
guys, but number one, you're
the child.
So I think you're as a parent.
I'd say this as a parent if
my kids ever wanted to know
anything for me, go ahead and ask.
Yeah, and I think you hold
on to that right as the child
to ask him whatever you want.
Mm-hmm.
Again, I'm not looking out the
you know, rock the apple cart
here, but then at the same
time, I wonder too though how
you experienced it when you
were younger and people didn't
necessarily ask you.
I wonder if you went there
and got past the first surface,
you know, rejection, right?
You got into it a little bit
if he would open up and now
the floodgates are open and
you guys are all kind of talking
through just just food for thought.
I don't know.
I've never I just like
thought about it that way because
yeah, like how we mentioned
earlier how like nobody would
really like asked me.
I'm like, I don't know if
many people would ask like have
asked him.
I guess like he was yeah,
kind of the frontier of that
movement of like we're just
brushing this under the rug.
Like this is that like yeah, whatever.
So maybe that is like a good perspective.
I would have done it.
I would have totally
brushed it under the rug.
I probably haven't even
considered my dad died fairly
abruptly very short-term
illness that was quick 90 days
right 120 days.
Nice, you know, she
got to bury that shit.
He's an avoidant.
But what's interesting is what you were
expressing is empathy
for your dad earlier that
you found that empathy now that
you can you're older and all
that maybe maybe a bridge to
it whenever if you ever feel the need
would be coming from
a place of empathy.
And you know, I can't imagine
how it was for you pretty much
what you just said coming
from the space and this time that
how to have been just and then
that could be an opener right
to see you know, send the
olive branch the olive branch.
But as far as for what you
need again, I think you could
probably find a lot of that within
yourself as your maturing
growing and reflecting.
Exactly, you know, and
that's the most important thing is
because some so many things
because I've had my own things
with my with my dad and
before he passed and even with my
mom who lives with us some
things you get to a point where
you're like, what am I looking for and
can they can what they
say or what they do resolve
it or do I need to resolve it
with them myself?
And then when I realized I need to
resolve this with them
myself because it really doesn't matter
what they say or do,
you know, there's really
nothing they can say or do right
because it's like certain things that
you'll like be looking
for like, what do I need like joining
answers from them or
myself? It's like it's so
like at least for me, it's so far
in the past.
I'm like I already like
done with like it's forgotten.
They're not forgotten, but
like it's like not affecting me.
Well, you feel you feel a lot
on your own through the therapy
and through that.
So you kind of took control
of your own healing journey.
So, you know, I have a
feeling with you guys.
It's going to naturally present itself.
It could be five, ten years
from now, but by that point, you
know, whenever it does, I feel like
you're going to be so
okay with what however the
conversation goes because you
have will have resolved so much within
yourself that you're
coming from a place
that has so much healing.
Right.
If that makes sense.
No, yeah, because I know more healing.
There was a point where it
was just like when things were
not that great.
It was just all like anger
towards him and I feel like I
don't really feel like sure
like if I think about it long
enough, like I'll probably get upset
about something, but
like just that a quick thought.
It's just more so like yeah, that all
sucks that Ashley and
I had to go through all this
like post my mom passing away
and like having to deal with
like how my dad like handled
things and it's not like we
didn't have anyone to kind of
like protect us or stand up for us.
Like that was my mom
and now we don't have her.
So it's kind of like how I'm
on the front line here like
against my dad like me being like 13.
Yeah, and it was yeah bad for a while
then I moved away and
then when I came back again
had a rocky moments, but like I
would say within the past
actually like probably two
years like it's been like the
best it's been probably in my
entire life on this earth.
Yeah, cool.
And so much of that could be
coming from your own healing
journey.
You know, because did you
find you were a people pleaser?
During these years.
Oh, yeah before your mom
passed or did it really kick in
after I would say even before my mom
passed because I feel
like in a way my mom was
kind of a people pleaser too.
She did not like I mean again,
like I was so young like it's
sad, but like my memories of
her like are kind of diminishing
right, but I know she was
like very well liked by people
like she's sweetheart.
I feel like she could be a
people pleaser when I think back
to like certain things like I'm
definitely like I am my mom
like I am exactly like her
like carbon copy like looks
attitude everything.
But I feel like she was a
people pleaser and I kind of
took that in myself and
then honestly though after she
passed I feel like I took it
on even more because I kind
of I was sensing I feel like that
approval like I would
get that approval from my mom and then
things were not great
with my dad.
So I wasn't getting that like approval
like, you know, good
job Kirsten from him.
So it was like I was getting
it wherever I could get it.
Like I was wanting people to like me.
I was wanting to seem like,
you know, a good person which
like I was but like I was you know,
wanted to have validation.
Yeah, I wanted the validation that like I
was you were missing
that parental approval.
Yeah, you were getting it
from outside sources by now has
have you adjusted that are
you as much of a people pleaser
anymore?
I would say not so much anymore.
Cuz I feel like I used to be like an
extreme like it was like
bad.
Yes, like I still do like
approval from people now, but
I feel like I'm much more
confident in setting boundaries
like if there's something I
don't want to do I'm gonna say
no, like I'm not doing that
excellent and not so much as I
want to be feel like this
person like likes me or I want
to feel like a good person and I feel
like also like on top
of that.
I would kind of overextend
myself like I would back when
I was working my two jobs like I would
always say yes to like
oh, can you pick up the shift?
Can you do this?
Can you do that?
And I would like spread
myself so thin that I was like, oh
my god, like I feel like I'm about to
have a mental breakdown.
Yeah, and so I was like,
okay, like going into this year.
I was like, I need to do more
things that are like going to
be good for me.
So that started with setting boundaries
and kind of focusing
more on what's good
for me and not so much.
What's that person gonna like or what's
gonna make that person
approve me like yeah, no, so
yeah, but setting boundaries
is self-care.
Mm-hmm.
You were reclaiming your energy.
Exactly.
So it can happen at any age.
There you go.
Any age.
Any age.
This is your year reclaiming
your energy because you were
giving it all away.
All away.
And you were depleted.
Exactly.
Yeah.
What's driving that for you though?
I mean, it's awesome.
What's driving?
Is there a big change or?
I honestly, I feel like
quitting Hooters was like big for me
because that was taking a lot of my time
and I mean every year
like when it's a new year,
everyone comes up with resolutions
and they never do them.
Yeah, and I was kind of like, okay, like
I want to actually kind of
focus in like I want to grow this
year because I feel
like the past few years.
I've just been going through the motions.
I've been going to work doing all this.
I was like, I've made a big
change in my life before kind
of like that big shift of
you know, not being so like shy
client reserved like who I am now.
I was like I can make more changes.
I can do some other big
change big shift for the better.
So I was like, okay, like boundaries
doing more things for
myself like I'm planning on doing like
hopefully a big career
I'm trying to either go back
to school or jump into like the
corporate 9 to 5 like I'm
waiting to hear back from school,
but if I don't get in I'm
just not going to let that kill
my spirit and I'm
just going to keep going.
Yeah, so so what what
where did you apply?
Do you want to share where you are?
So I'm hopefully going back
to school to do diagnostic
sonography.
So like ultrasound.
Oh cool.
I want to do vascular ultrasound.
So like heart.
I don't want to do
like babies and all that.
I wanted to something
different but the only thing is the
programs I applied to
they're very very very selective.
It's like they accept 10 people a year.
Wow.
And so I knew going into that that
there's a chance I don't
get in and if I don't it's
not the end of the world.
Right.
I'll just find something new.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Trust it in the path.
Exactly.
Because I feel like the job I do work now
is something I could
do on the weekends if I
wanted to but I want more structure
because I feel like more
structure will lead to kind of
like a happier balanced life than me
working like a Monday
Friday Saturday Sunday like very random
and then I think it's
like a Tuesday like yeah, I
kind of want that structure some
predictability.
Yes.
So when will you find out how she find
out in two two to three
weeks?
It was the but again like I'm
I mean it's not going to be the
end of the world.
No and if for some reason if
hope I'm not even want to put
this out there, but if it
doesn't go the way you want to I
don't think it means you should not
continue chasing that exactly
you know, so myself because
it is kind of like a little
unfortunate.
They only do like one
admission cycle a year.
Yeah, like if anything next
year if I'm like haven't found
something I truly want to do
then that's that but I've kind
of also like started separating I guess
work from passions or
like things I enjoy so I'm like if I end
up working in something
that I'm not super passionate
about like I have my passions
that I like on the side that aren't work.
So they don't feel like
work if that makes sense.
Yeah, it doesn't.
It's really interesting you
said that because I know that
for a lot of Gen Z's I think
they start out wanting to do
what they love and it's
a requirement and both.
I'm only going to do this if
I love it or if I'm passionate
about it and then sometimes it's better
and it's more balanced
if work is work and your
passions are separate from that.
Exactly.
No, I'm a lot of times work if you're
successful at work, it
gives you the funds to go
more after your passions.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah to not have them tied together.
I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend chasing
your passions for work
because to that point you it's hard to
separate like I love
to garden.
I wouldn't want a job that's
related to gardening or else
I wouldn't do it at home.
It kind of changes it.
Yeah, like you can love what
you do but loving what you do
and having your dreams and passions
that's a little more
balanced if that makes sense.
I see people that go into a
career in their passion and
years later, they're like,
I'm not even passionate about
this anymore.
I hate it.
It's just I wake up in the morning.
I dread it.
So I'm kind of like being learning from
like seeing it around
that, you know, kind of
keep keep it separate.
So that's why I'm like if I
don't get into this program
and I do ultimately have to find a job,
that's not necessarily
like my cup of tea or what
I'd see myself in then I'm like,
okay with it.
If it's you know, yeah, is it both?
Yeah, interesting the plan
and the path and everything that
there's so much so much of
this is faith, you know, and what
what it's supposed to be for you.
So before I ask my final question, I
always check with him
because I don't look at him and he's like
I had another question.
I'm curious what got you over
the hump to get on the highway
and drive.
Oh, okay.
So I it was one of my goals this year
like New Year's resolutions.
I was like because for my one
job driving from like anywhere
from Stewart to Miami true back roads.
It could be a two-hour back road drive,
but a 50-minute highway
drive and I had to go
to Stewart for a job.
This was probably two weeks ago and I
took my back roads there
two hours and then the next
morning I had to be in Palm Beach
at 7 a.m. for a golf tournament.
So I was like I want to get home early
just so I can get some sleep
because I'm gonna have to you know, wake
up early to take my back
roads and I was got in my car.
I went typed in the address
to home and it said two hours
no highway and then this time it said
like it was like 45 or 50
highway.
I was like, oh my goodness.
So I called my sister Ashlyn.
I was like Ashlyn like I think I'm gonna
do it and she's been
like my biggest supporter with this.
She's like Pearson.
Yes, like she was like the perfect time.
It's like 10 o'clock on
like a Wednesday night.
Like nobody's gonna be out
like just get on the road.
Yeah, so she talks me through
the merge as soon as I get on
and I'm like in a safe lane.
She's like, okay, like I'm
gonna hang up now like listen to
music like she's like put on some
powerful songs like something
and get you in like a good like yeah,
like you're gonna take
it on and doing it.
So I did that and then I took it the next
morning to Palm Beach.
Nice awesome.
And now I'm I haven't done
like a rush hour thing yet, but
I'm working in Miami on Saturday and I'm
trying to hype myself
up to maybe yeah try
that or Ashlyn will drive.
I do have one other question too.
That's amazing.
You should be so proud of yourself.
No, it's also huge stuff for me huge.
Actually, I have two questions.
One is just and I'll ask them both one.
What do you have another New Year's
resolution that you have
in mind and then the second
question is I think when Ashlyn
was on with the with you know,
I am Vanessa.
She had mentioned that there was a period
where you guys weren't
as close you weren't enemies or anything
right, but you weren't
as close but now you're like super close.
Yes, so I'm curious more about that.
If you're willing to yeah, so I think
starting with the Ashlyn
one the time when we were not super
closed was the first I
think few years after my mom had died
kind of how I said earlier
that I kind of just instead of
immediately jumping in and
being closer with Ashlyn taking on that
like kind of role of
I don't want to say like the motherly
role, but like kind of
like looking after her more like I was
just so by myself like
then that like there was Ashlyn like we
were all kind of like
in our own little I want to say bubbles.
So we weren't super close
like and it was also like our age
like the age we were at like
I was going to high school.
She was middle school.
I was just kind of like in my
own thing and then there was
Ashlyn and then like I said earlier
Ashlyn was like very
much more social had a lot more friends.
So like she was
always kind of doing that.
So we weren't super closed.
I think it was like
obviously we would kind of like band
together when like we needed
to like, you know, like against
like my dad or like when we like were
kind of like that was
your common bond.
Exactly.
Like that was the common
bond like we both like supported
ourselves like each other
through that type of thing, but
I don't think we got super close until I
want to say probably
I was in maybe my senior
year of college because then she
had started freshman year.
So we were at the same school.
I don't same situation at Boca High.
I was a senior when she was
a freshman, but I don't think
we were very close.
It was funny because you're
talking about this the other day
we're trying to like I feel
like a lot of my childhood like
I blocked out.
So Ashlyn brought that up.
She was like, you know, like
we weren't that close like in
our like my high school years.
I was like, what do you mean?
Like it's in my head Ashlyn.
I have been like best friends forever.
Like yeah, like how we are
now and then she kind of started
talking about it.
I was like, oh my god, you're right.
Like we really were not that close like
Intel probably I was
like a senior in college and
you were a freshman and you
had gone through therapy too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then I mean
immediately after Ashlyn
was done with FSU we moved in together
and we've been living
with each other ever
since and it's awesome.
You probably were just separable
disassociated a lot.
Oh for sure.
During those years where she wasn't she
was younger and it's
sad.
It's like I'll think about it.
I'm like, oh my god, like it's me sad to
think that I was not
like there for her
like you were surviving.
Yeah, you were you
were trying to get a girl.
You were treading water.
Yeah, you were in fight or flight.
You were a drama.
Yeah, I mean you did it and you made it
and you were in leadership
even during that crazy time who would
have thought so yeah,
I mean no the fact that you
did life during that time.
That's all you needed to do right on it
that that young girl
just needed to do life and get to then
FSU and then look at
everything you did for you and
that's the main thing and it's
still all worked out beautifully because
you guys do have this
beautiful friendship in
addition to your sisterhood.
So it's cool.
And what was your other question?
Do you have another New
Year's resolution or is I mean,
she's named a lot already.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of goals already
moves this year big.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So my last question is always where do
you see yourself in five years?
I hope.
I hope that I'm in like deep
enough into some sort of career
whatever I end up in whether it's being
you know, like a medical
whether it's working a nine-to-five
somewhere like I hope I'm
like in a career that again like nothing
doesn't have to be a
passion but something that I at least
feel like happy about and
not like miserable at I
guess like I want to be at a good
point career wise where I'm you know,
like able to enjoy life
like I can still you know, like travel
and do all these things
and not feel like I'm
suffocating living like a paycheck to
paycheck type of job.
Let's see five years.
I would be 32.
I if I am not married and
I don't have kids by 32,
I won't feel super discouraged.
So I'm not super concerned about that.
I would hope to at least
own an apartment or a house.
I would love a house, but
I don't know about this.
Yeah, this area is crazy.
Area like I I've always said I've never
moved from Boca just
because I love it here so much.
So like I probably have to weigh some
options when it comes to
if I was able to buy a house.
Yeah, moving a little expensive here.
So crazy.
Yeah, but but you
don't know where you'll be.
I don't know where I'll be.
So, you know, I think
those are great goals.
Those are wonderful goals.
So yeah, and I have no doubt
you're going to accomplish them
because you really look back at
everything you've accomplished
under such stressful
circumstances and what would have
really stopped a lot of
people in their tracks you fought
through and and did what you
needed to do and you have such
self-awareness and you just have have you
searched for healing
for yourself and that's an amazing thing
at your age to already
have accomplished that and to
not have buried it or fallen
into destructive coping
mechanisms for years and years and
years.
So you just should be so proud of
yourself to be a 27 and
you have accomplished what
you have just for yourself even
and your mom would be
beyond proud of you.
I'm going to say that I'm going to say
that for her because
it's amazing what you've done.
Honestly, so and I again, I have no doubt
you're going to accomplish
what you set your mind to not just this
year, but your five-year
goal for sure.
So and I'm sure you would agree with you.
Yeah, I totally you're doing awesome.
Really happy for you proud of you.
I agree your your mom
would feel the same way.
100% and and I know
your dad is proud of you.
Yeah, you know, he's a boomer.
So he may not say it.
He's worse than me.
Yeah, they're worse than these guys like
they're not known for
much of sharing anything.
So anything you get from
him is probably a big deal.
But thank you so much for honoring us
with your story and sharing
everything and I know we have listeners
that some of what you
said will resonate with them and I have
no doubt you will have
especially some young women hope who
maybe are in a dark place
especially during those college years.
There's a lot of and your
20s your 20s are not easy.
People don't realize it's
not supposed to be easy.
No one has it figured out.
No, no, it's not.
It's not supposed to be easy.
It's a roller coaster and there's things
that are supposed to
happen to your during your 20s to help
you really figure out
your life.
So and you're doing it beautifully.
Thank you guys.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Our pleasure our pleasure and we can't
wait to have you back in
the future and see where you're at.
Yes, love to come back and check in.
Definitely.
There you go.
So thank you to our listeners as well as
always if you have any
comments or questions, please leave them.
We love to read everything and again,
thank you Kirsten for being
our guest today and
we'll see you next time.
Bye.