Episode 27 - The Millennials - Guller

[MUSIC] Welcome to GenX Adulting. Today we have Gullar with us. Welcome to the studio. Thank you guys so much. We're so happy that you're here. The first question that we ask everyone is, what year were you born? I was born January 1st, 1996. 1996. You are the youngest millennial. This is news to me. [LAUGHTER] He's the expert here on this. Yeah. You're also part of the micro generation called Zillennials. Have you ever heard of that? I did. I saw some of the other episodes. I know Nate was like, "I think I'm a Zillennial." Yeah. [LAUGHTER] You guys are Zillennials. It's like the few younger millennials and the older Gen Z's because you are that unique group that were able to have an old-fashioned childhood before technology stepped in. Even though when you guys had phones, I don't think they were anything like the phones now, right? No, definitely not. You weren't as connected as you are now, which was a blessing. You don't have to respond every text immediately because it takes like three minutes to even respond to a text. [LAUGHTER] Because you had to hit one number three times, I think, just to get to a letter that you wanted, right? Yeah. You don't get the emails, you don't get the slacks, you don't get the Instagram likes. Yeah. It was a different experience for sure. Yeah. Much quieter. Yeah. You didn't rely on validation from Instagram likes or from social media likes, especially during those formative years, which I think is awesome for you guys, that you were able to get through your years without that part of social media, the FOMO and all that stepping in. But you guys did have Facebook, right? You use that as your technology? I remember I was in, I don't know, maybe seventh grade and I was like, "Hey,

the FOMO and all that stepping in. But you guys did have Facebook, right? You use that as your technology? I remember I was in, I don't know, maybe seventh grade and I was like, "Hey, Dad, I think I could make a Facebook account." He's like, "All right, go for it." Sure. My posts were so stupid. I was looking back at it just the other day and just nonsense. But make little side groups with three, four friends and just jokes, it wouldn't make any sense to anyone that was outside of them. The fact that I even had the audacity to put that out there for the people to see, it's like scratch your head. Yeah. I think the word is cringe, most people say that they look back and they say how cringe it all is. Now, I think just boomers and older Gen X are pretty much maybe some older millennials. I don't know, maybe sharing pictures of their kids. It's definitely explained towards folks our age and above. It is. It is. But I think your age definitely still uses Instagram. Yeah, I was off for a while, but I got back on start of the year. It's one of those things where it's like you realize it's not good for you. So you take a break and then you're like, "Shit, I should probably get back on." Yeah. You want to meet people. I want to show some of the cool things I'm doing. Yeah. Especially for the music stuff. I always like to post and promote and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm back now. Now, do you Snapchat or are you done with that? I did for a while. And no, I don't Snapchat. Actually, I kind of get annoyed when I get a Snapchat notification. I should probably just delete this from my phone. Does anyone your age really use it? There's some people. My sister, she's two years younger than me and she uses it. Okay. Okay.

I should probably just delete this from my phone. Does anyone your age really use it? There's some people. My sister, she's two years younger than me and she uses it. Okay. Okay. And then what about TikTok? I never got on TikTok. I know a lot of people my age are on TikTok. I've already got enough to just scroll and get distracted by it. I didn't need one other thing. No, that's smart. It's very smart because it's the consumption. It's just the constant conception. And also, as you just alluded to, the 24-7 access people have. You between texting email. So just to have that break, you don't need to throw in another vehicle into that. So were you born in one place or did you move around a lot in your childhood? I was born in Charlotte, North Carolina. And I moved down my mom, my dad, my sister and I when I was four years old. OK. And we moved to Delray. We moved in one house. You know, we were there for probably two, three years and moved to a house about a minute and a half away. OK, so you've grown up in South Florida. I've been in Delray ever since 2000. OK, so you're a South Florida boy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For the most part. All intents and purposes. Now, how does your parents meet? So it's it's funny. So my dad, his name is Ufuk. He is originally from Turkey. OK, OK. And so he moved over. His dad was a doctor and he had studied medicine in the states briefly. They go back to Turkey. And then he says, you know what? I want to go back. I want to keep learning, become a better doctor. So they moved the family there in West Virginia for a little bit. And then they moved to a small rural town in North Carolina called Taylor'sville. And my mom is also from rural North Carolina, like Salisbury, like Rockwell. Yeah, rent a core area.

And then they moved to a small rural town in North Carolina called Taylor'sville. And my mom is also from rural North Carolina, like Salisbury, like Rockwell. Yeah, rent a core area. And then they met actually on a blind date at University of Chapel Hill. Oh, no way. Oh, wow. They didn't like each other first. And then it turns out that like the following semester, they got partnered up in a biology class. Oh, wow. The flame kind of got rekindled. Yeah, yeah. And now here I am. So it's destiny, destiny. It was definitely destiny. Mom says my dad really had to work for her, though. That's good. That's good. That's how it should be. So when your dad came over here, so he was born in Turkey. Yeah. And he moved and he was too. So he's pretty much Americanized then. Yeah. That's all he knows. Yeah. Yeah. And we've been back to Turkey a handful of times. We have some family there still. He speaks. Beginner, intermediate level Turkish. OK, I speak no Turkish. OK, so it means very little. What is it? Beer does beer does. I'm probably botching it. Well, I just did it even worse, I'm sure. So now your grandparents, your grandpa moved the family over here and then they just stayed here. Did they ever move back? The plan was to go back. But once they got here, they were like, yeah, we're just going to stay. And, you know, after they were empty nesters, they would go spend a year in Turkey, a year here, a year in Turkey, a year here. Nice. Yeah. So do you have a lot of family still there? I have family there. It's distant for me at this point. I am planning to go to Greece later this year for a friend's wedding. If you're from over there, might as well stop by Turkey. Yeah. And just kind of I haven't been back since my grandparents passed,

year for a friend's wedding. If you're from over there, might as well stop by Turkey. Yeah. And just kind of I haven't been back since my grandparents passed, unfortunately. So, yeah, it's been like they were the bridge kind of between me and my sister and Turkey. So it'll be a different experience for sure, going back. But I have family members. They speak English. Yeah. You know, they do well. So it'll be it'll be good. It'll be cool for you because were you more in your team? How old were you when your grandparents passed? Uh, I was in my early 20s when my grandma passed and a little bit younger when my grandpa passed. OK, so then now that you're in your late 20s, probably a whole new perspective. Oh, definitely. You know, if you were to go over there and have now that the frontal lobe has closed and all that good stuff. OK, so and you have a sister. I do. Sydney. And she younger? Two years younger. And are you guys close? Yes, very close. She's amazing. She's so supportive. I'm really fortunate that I can talk to her about anything. We have a great time together, too. She's here. She's here in Boca. That's cool. And were you always close? She tells it differently than I do. She's like, you know, there was a really rough state where you were mean. And I don't seem to remember it that way if you ask me. But I guess we're closer now than we have been in the past. Yeah, yeah. I think that happened with our two older kids. As there was a period where like Nathan couldn't stand Kaya. And I don't think she remembers that, but he does. And then all of a sudden, they were back in and bonded and everything. And now they're like best friends. It's just a younger sister, older brother dynamic, probably. Yeah. And as you get older, too, you realize, like, you know,

in and bonded and everything. And now they're like best friends. It's just a younger sister, older brother dynamic, probably. Yeah. And as you get older, too, you realize, like, you know, if we had differences, like you are my only sibling. So, you know, I love you and I'm really happy that we're here. That's one of the things that's a big blessing for me is that my family is all within 10 minutes of each other. Yeah, that's cool. It's huge. It's huge. So your name is that Turkish? So it's it's kind of a hybrid, actually. So the G U L it means smile, ghoul in Turkish and my mom being from rural North Carolina was kind of like, you know, let's slap an ER on the end. So it's kind of like a smiler. But the Turks don't know what it is. Americans have trouble pronouncing it. But have you I think you're the only only guler in the world, right? I think that's what you have on your Instagram. Yeah, the only guler you'll ever meet. Yeah, there is some people have it as a last name. OK, but as far as first names go, I think I've got it one. Yeah, I love that. I absolutely love that because it completely represents both of your parents backgrounds perfectly. And I love that she Americanized it so much. I don't even know where the other L came from. Yeah, that's awesome. She probably was like, oh, that looks better with another L. Let's do two. Otherwise it could be like Guler and that's a little. I don't know. It's too much. Yeah. It's like color with a G. That's a really good way to say it. No, I love that. To go back to West Virginia, do you know what town they landed in? No, I don't. I wonder if it was Morgantown because if he was in medical field, University of West Virginia, West Virginia University is there. Yeah, the good medical program.

No, I don't. I wonder if it was Morgantown because if he was in medical field, University of West Virginia, West Virginia University is there. Yeah, the good medical program. Brian Hetman family from Morgantown. So that's we always ask whenever someone says West Virginia. I'm like, do you know what part? It's a big state, too. So it's not like, you know, almost seven. Yeah, almost. Yes, 100 percent. So your elementary school years, was there anything in particular through elementary school or middle school that you focus on athletics or art or music? Yeah, I always played football growing up. And, you know, my family and I were big dolphins fans. My dad, even growing up in North Carolina, I think, I guess it was Dan Reno, but he was always a big dolphins fan. So we've been raised that way. They've seen tickets. So I always played myself. And, you know, as far as music goes, this is something I wanted to ask you. But I don't know if like when did you have music classes when you were in school, when you guys were growing up? Yes. Did you recall like having to learn to play the recorder? Oh, yes. Yes. It's timeless. It's yeah. And and to me, it felt pointless because I'm not a music person. Sure. So for a lot of kids, you sit in there and you're like, why am I learning three blind mice on this recorder? But it's for those kids. Yes. But also there are those kids in there like you who are musically inclined. And that's where I think a lot of that works. You know, so it weeds out like these kids aren't into music, but you get those few that are. So you probably enjoyed that, right? Well, I didn't really know I was into music at that point. OK. You know, you guys asked me to do a little questionnaire, you know, before I came in.

that are. So you probably enjoyed that, right? Well, I didn't really know I was into music at that point. OK. You know, you guys asked me to do a little questionnaire, you know, before I came in. One of the things I put on was getting Guitar Hero 2 when I was. I saw that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it was Christmas and it must have been when I was seven getting ready to turn and I got I got open the Xbox. I heard two I set up in the living room and I start playing, playing, playing. And I got I got pretty good, not like top, you know, too. But but I was playing on expert. I got 100 percent on a couple of songs. And my mom, she's like, man, you really picked up this game. You know, you should get some some music lessons. And I said, all right, guitar. Yeah, I want to be a rock star. Let's do it. And she goes, OK, no problem. We'll find you guitar teacher. Again, major shout out to my parents for just, you know, seeing that it was something that I was interested in and saying, hey, you know, I really want to enable you to do this. But for whatever reason, they had a hard time finding a teacher. So my sister, she's like, all right, well, we're going to start you on piano while we look for a guitar teacher for Gulliver. And in the recorder class, we had a teacher. So I went to book a Christian and we had a teacher, Miss Blankenship, and she would kind of play the notes on the piano. She was showing us like basic sheet music while we were playing along. I came home from school one day and we had this old kind of upright piano that my Turkish grandma had given us because nobody was using it. So maybe the kids will want to play. And I sat down and I'm like looking at it and Mary had a little lamb as one that everyone's like, you know, don't don't don't.

because nobody was using it. So maybe the kids will want to play. And I sat down and I'm like looking at it and Mary had a little lamb as one that everyone's like, you know, don't don't don't. My mom runs and she's like, Sydney, that's the best you've ever played. And then she looks at you and goes, Gulliver, what the hell? She's like, that's it. No guitar lessons for you. You're getting piano lessons. Yeah. So yeah, that was when I was eight. And so I've always had a focus on that. I played I was in the band. I played trumpet. OK. So that's like eight. That's what? Third grade? For that's still pretty young. No, no, not. Yeah, that is maybe a little too early for that. I didn't start trumpet until the fifth grade. OK, but the guitar hero thing that would have been like third grade. And that's still pretty early to discover that passion, which is fortunate, which is great. And you did have music classes, right? Sure. In your school. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if they still do have music classes. I don't know. They must. I don't. I mean, I think Christian or Catholic schools. Yeah. Religious schools probably. Yeah. I just want because Dylan, when he was at he was in Catholic school, he played the recorder, but I don't know if public school does. I have no idea. I don't know if they've cut that out. I think it's so important. Like Boca Middle has like their band. But if maybe you have to elect to be in band. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if it for a book. A Christian was one of those things where everyone goes into the library on the last hour of the day and they're like pick an instrument. Yes. That's cool. I want to play saxophone. I want to play trumpet. So that's awesome. That is cool. What if that's a big facilitator, actually?

like pick an instrument. Yes. That's cool. I want to play saxophone. I want to play trumpet. So that's awesome. That is cool. What if that's a big facilitator, actually? Yeah. Then you can discover what you might be interested in. Sure. A lot of kids are just like, well, let me just bang on the drums. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's cool. So then you did band what through middle school? I did it all the way up and through my first year of high school. And I was actually I was decent and there were kind of two things that led me to stop playing the trumpet and focus more on piano. And one was I had this teacher, the band teacher, and to move up from like the first level, which was the concert band to the symphonic band. You had to also be in the marching band and I was playing football. So I was like, all right. Well, there's that. So I don't know. Kids that did both and like during the games, they would run and they would change and they would put the hat on and, you know, and then they go back. So that was one thing that I was like, that seems like a lot. And then I had a teacher who was he's a fantastic trumpet player. I mean, guy was really next level. And he's like, you've got potential. You know, teachers always hype up their students. He's like, all you have to do, wake up every morning, six a.m. and do mouthpiece exercises for like two hours. And then when you get home from school, you've got to play for another two hours. And I was like, man, I think I'm just going to play the piano. Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot of commitment. It was. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what it takes, I guess, if you're going to really make it your likelihood and your passion, but 100 percent. Yeah. But in some ways, if you didn't do it on your own,

that's what it takes, I guess, if you're going to really make it your likelihood and your passion, but 100 percent. Yeah. But in some ways, if you didn't do it on your own, maybe it wasn't the passion. You had an interest, but it wasn't like, oh, I have to have this trumpet all the time. No, I wasn't. There was I mean, among the other things I was doing, too. And also like I was a pretty good student, I'd say, through the middle school years, high school, I was a good student, but I was more extracurricular oriented and less like, you know, let me do every homework assignment. Yeah. And then, you know, that kind of shifted some of my priorities and my time, too. I was going to ask you, how did how did you balance sports and music? Because both, especially at that age, did you play travel sports at all? Oh, no, just just with the school. OK. I played like Boca Christian, which honestly surprised me even had this, but we had a tackle football team. Well, the middle is like small Christian middle schools. Like they just do flag football. Yeah. Yeah. And we're out there like I mean, you can imagine a bunch of, you know, however old we are, like, you know, small white guys going out to the Everglades. Yeah. But I'm playing Pahokee and right. Right. It was Glade Central. I'll never forget one day. So I'll tell a quick story. I had a dude on our team that was our biggest player. And he was like our nose tackle. And sometimes he would play center to and his name is Grant. And they said, all right, Grant, this team is way bigger than us. So we're going to just put you at full back because we think that's the only opportunity that we have to even move the ball. Yeah. And on the very first play of the game, when they hand it to him,

So we're going to just put you at full back because we think that's the only opportunity that we have to even move the ball. Yeah. And on the very first play of the game, when they hand it to him, he runs up the middle and got hit by one of their linebackers so hard that he actually got carried off in a neck brace. No way. Oh, my God. Now he's fine now. But the rest of us are sitting there with a scratch. We're like, we're fucked. Like, yeah, did you what did you do? We lost. We lost in dramatic fashion. Yeah, I'm sure. Did everybody just kind of dive and try to say, like, I would have been so scared to go back out there. We had another coach and he was like, all right, here's the game plan. Every play on the offensive line just dive at their knees. We're like, coach, I don't think that's allowed in football. And he's like, it's our only chance. That's funny. South Florida is a an extremely good football region. So you're a little Christian school going up against some of these powerhouses just isn't it's so true. They taught me a couple of things about resilience, I guess. Yeah, for sure. So then playing for the school probably did allow you to have some. You could balance music and sports. You can have the best of both worlds. We had our practices after school and then we had games once a week. So so you stayed. So you stopped the band after freshman year, you said of high school. Yeah, of high school. And so then you were just doing football, just doing football. And so did you continue to play piano in your outside of school? Yeah. So once we did find a piano teacher for me and his name is Dave Kirk, he's amazing if he's around here, he's around here. So, you know, definitely go look for him, get some lessons.

Yeah. So once we did find a piano teacher for me and his name is Dave Kirk, he's amazing if he's around here, he's around here. So, you know, definitely go look for him, get some lessons. But he he taught me so much about like the technique and the technical component. And then I got to a certain point. Actually, here's another story. So when I was at Boca Christian, they also had a praise band that would play on Fridays. And it was like, as you'd imagine, like praise and worship, like very, you know, it's like poppy Christian music. Yeah. And I was I was pretty good. And I was like, all right, you know, I'm going to go audition for the prison worship band. I walk in and I know how to read music. He's been kind of training me on some classical stuff. Also, my parents, they go on Billy Joel Elton John. So I'm learning that kind of music. I was going to ask you about that. Yeah. Some of the influences. So those two come to mind for sure. Sure. And my actually my first concert was Billy Joel. I know parents took me. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I remember. I remember this is the quick aside. We're up in the nosebleeds. It was where the heat used to play. And I keep asking my mom, like after every song, like, when's he going to play piano, man? Yeah. And she's like, last. And I just I was young. I couldn't understand the concept of encore. And I said, please piano, man. Please. That's so cute. But we were saying about playing piano with your teacher. Right. So Mr. Kirk, right. Yes, Mr. Kirk. And so I go to audition for the prison band and I sit down and they hand me like like a lead sheet. It's like, OK, here are the chords, A, F minor E and F sharp minor. And I'm like, I have no idea how to how to play these because I'd only learned how to read sheet music.

It's like, OK, here are the chords, A, F minor E and F sharp minor. And I'm like, I have no idea how to how to play these because I'd only learned how to read sheet music. And so then I had to go back to him and, you know, he's he's a he's a great jazz player, some of his influences or some of the great Oscar Peterson, Bill Evans, exactly. And so I'm like, oh, David, Mr. Kirk, he wanted me to call him Dave, but I never would. Yeah. Yeah. It's really called Mr. Yes. Yes. And I was like, I got it. I got to learn how to read this stuff. I don't know how to do it. And I'm sure he wanted me to keep learning jazz and classical, but he stopped everything and he tailored his approach to helping me understand how to read chords, how to improvise and things like that. So I owe him a huge, huge thanks for helping me progress that component, because when it gets to playing with a band, playing with other musicians, you have to be able to speak that language and you have to be able to, you know, listen and look and say, OK, this gives me some freedom to do other things and just stay within the box of what's previously written sheet music. So so I'm not completely grasping. You could read sheet music, which I thought was what you just said, like a like the letters. But how how when you walked in to audition, what were they presenting to you? How would you explain it's different than sheet music? Yeah, totally. So like sheet music is like, I mean, everyone knows kind of what like sheet music was like with the line. Yeah. The sheet music is the individual notes that you're supposed to play in the timing of it. All right. You got it. And then the chords are more. There's probably greater variance. Maybe you could explain that better.

notes that you're supposed to play in the timing of it. All right. You got it. And then the chords are more. There's probably greater variance. Maybe you could explain that better. I don't know the chord part of it. But yeah, no problem. So like you would look at basically it's a page of lyrics and then on the page of lyrics above the word where the chord changes, it would say like play an A chord. It just has a letter A versus opposed like all the little dots in the lines. OK, OK. So the first time I didn't know, I was like, are you playing A? So I just put one finger on the piano and like A, D. And they're like, OK, you need to go practice. OK. So when you do that, actually, so when you were playing chords, you have to play the whole A chord. Yeah. Type of thing. OK. Which is multiple notes. Yeah, typically at least two. Yeah. But it could be. Now I understand. OK, thank you for explaining that. Yeah, because I was picturing it in my head and I've seen sheet music. But then when you start talking about what they were presenting to you, I wasn't completely understanding that must have opened up your world, though, because from what I understand about chords, everyone says learn the chords. Yeah, because then you can just jump in and play. And if you say within a chord, you your sound is is within the right range. Yeah, I've opened up the whole now you're like fluid. You could probably jam. You could sit in and write. That was the start of that. Yeah. So getting getting that foundation. Yeah. Even just to play basic praise and worship music on Fridays. Yeah. That really is like you said, open my idol, open my world to OK. Wow, this is what it's like to play with other people. Yeah. You have to listen so much more. And there's a lot of merit

Yeah. That really is like you said, open my idol, open my world to OK. Wow, this is what it's like to play with other people. Yeah. You have to listen so much more. And there's a lot of merit and nuance to solo performance. But yeah, I personally have way more fun playing with other people than than just playing solo. Yeah. Did you ever get into the praise and worship band? I did. Yeah, I did. And I had a the lady who led it. There was another girl that was a Allstate singer. She was an incredible singer, had a beautiful voice. And she had just started learning piano. She was very tight with the lady who led the band. So I think she gave her like, you know, like the test answers ahead of time. Like, you know, like this. And so I came in and I had never played the chords. But as I mentioned, you guys, you know, I learned Dave helped me and I was able to make it and play. But what this lady did, the lady who led the band, she actually says, OK, we'll go. Here's what we're going to do. This girl is going to play the piano and you're going to sing. And I'm like, you got to be kidding me. She's all state singer. I never sang in my life. I'm terrified to see. Yeah. And in retrospect, and this is the first time I've really looked at it back from this lens, but now I have a lot of confidence in my singing. But that first time that I sang up and it was just a practice. But I was. Oh, of course. Shaking. I had to have been terrified. Oh, my gosh. Well, you know, Kaya, she sang in a in a what was like a kids rock band type. Yeah, she did. And she would sing. If she was excellent, phenomenal singer, really. She would get nervous sometimes and be like almost ready to throw up before she would go on. Yeah, I think before every time.

If she was excellent, phenomenal singer, really. She would get nervous sometimes and be like almost ready to throw up before she would go on. Yeah, I think before every time. But to just be randomly asked to sing like, I guess it was almost seems unfair. But it's good. She just like threw you on the spot because you had no time to be nervous. So it was just in that moment. And you had to just go for it. I was pissed, but I was pissed that I wasn't playing piano because that's really what I wanted to do. But so did you sing more than that one time? Like, were you singing and singing and then in front of the front of the crew, not the crew, I guess, to be the other kids. So she's sitting there playing piano, which is what you want to do. Yeah. But you're having to sing like just in front of a mic solo. Yeah. I think you would. I would have thought she would have wanted to also sing because she was this like celebrated singer. So she was so good. Yeah. She was way better than I was. But did you ever get a chance to play piano? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We would swap off on song. So but she still got probably 60 percent of it. Yeah. Yeah. So you did that all the way through till you graduated? At least at least through middle school. Yeah. Middle school. Yeah. I thought this was high school. No, no, no. This was middle school. This through middle school. So and then in high school, you basically after ninth grade stopped in school. But then outside of school, did you continue to do anything? So I met a friend playing football. His name is Bobby. And Bobby is still to this day one of my best friends. But he had an older he had a cousin that was on American Idol. And so we struck up our conversation initially from football after, you know, knowing

day one of my best friends. But he had an older he had a cousin that was on American Idol. And so we struck up our conversation initially from football after, you know, knowing him for a couple of months. He tells me this and like, dude, you know what that means. Right. You can sing. He's like, no. I was like, absolutely. You have to sing. I play the piano. It's perfect. We'll we'll be a band. Yeah. And so if we used to to get together and I would play and I coached him on, you know, I think this sounds good. You should do it this way. And his cousin was a big influence on both of us, actually. Cousin, you find him Apple Music, Spotify. It's John K. John K. John K. And he was on American Idol. Yeah. OK. And now he's on Spotify with his own music. Yeah. He's a professional musician. He does it. That's awesome. That's what he does. But he was a huge influence. OK. Yeah. OK. Check him out. Yeah. It's cool. It's it's popular stuff than what I normally listen to now. But his or his first album back when it was just Johnny Keyser, his name. He that album had a huge influence on us. And then like my buddy Bobby, he loved Gavin to grow. So like that was like that was our shit. And we would always I would sit there and I play the piano. And I'd be like, oh, Bobby, sing like this, sing like this, because I was still getting confidence in my own voice. And Bobby did have a great voice. So we continued to play all the way through high school, but now sometimes we still play. Do you really? Yeah. Yeah. So would you guys like get together after school or on the weekends? After school. Yeah. After school weekends all the time. We were playing music. He's always playing music. Is this Bobby that played baseball? No. Big fisherman. No, no, no.

After school. Yeah. After school weekends all the time. We were playing music. He's always playing music. Is this Bobby that played baseball? No. Big fisherman. No, no, no. OK. Different guy. Different Bobby. Yeah. OK. So many of them out there. OK. Yeah. True. So that was really your first band that. Yeah. If you don't count the many praise and worship band. Yeah. It was just me and him. It was a little duo. Would you ever perform? We would occasionally. So as we got later in high school, sometimes, you know, we'd be at restaurants or whatever and our parents together. And my dad would be like, you got to let my kid on the piano. You know, so he was they. And again, to my parents, always huge supporters of music from the very beginning. And Bobby's parents, too, they had a piano at their place and we'd go and his mom. So funny. We played all kinds of stuff, but this was back when that song Thrift Shop was popular. Yeah. And that's Malcolm or Macklemore. Yeah. This is we talk about the cringe moments like thinking about now. You get a big fur coat. I didn't. But we we came up with like our own piano, like vocal rendition. We'd like swap off the vocals like, but shit, it was 99 cents. So and his mom, she'd be like, play thrift shop. Play thrift shop. Play thrift shop. So she was blue in the face. We're like, no, no. And then that's awesome. I love that. I love that. Oh, my gosh. Well, now, if you guys were out there, you'd be TikTok stars because people would film you out and about at restaurants and probably be all over social media. So now real quick, going back to your parents, support of your music. Are either one of them musically inclined or have it in their background? No, but in the background, yes. So my my grandpa on my mom's side

parents, support of your music. Are either one of them musically inclined or have it in their background? No, but in the background, yes. So my my grandpa on my mom's side is one of four and the children, they grew up in rural North Carolina and the grandpa is one of 13 and they all played a lot of music. And the grandpa in particular said, all right, I'm going to take my boys and we're going to have a family bluegrass band. Oh, sweet. So none of them ever really got formal lessons. You know, to my knowledge, but my grandpa played the mandolin in a bluegrass band. Amazing. And my uncle Steve. Yeah, I see that when I saw that when I walked in. Yeah, Steve is actually a really good banjo player. Plays with a couple of different bands. They've got some some music online, too. That's also the name of your uncle Steve's fan. If he hears this to be like, how do you not know my band color? But you tell her tell us later we'll slide it. We'll put it in the description. OK. Yeah. And the and the connection. Now, what about your grandfather? Did is did he have any music out there that? No. So yeah. So yes. Not officially, though, like they would play like these barn weddings and things. Like I saw a clip from like the 90s where they got there were the Dun Mountain Boys was the name of the bluegrass band that they had. Yeah. And they went around to North Carolina. They played different like bluegrass festivals and things like that. But the only videos that I've seen are like home, like shaky VHS. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Those of them. What we would have been doing. Are you are you into bluegrass at all? I do like bluegrass. Yeah. I wouldn't say that that's like, you know, top of my list. But it's in your blend. The improvisational component.

Are you are you into bluegrass at all? I do like bluegrass. Yeah. I wouldn't say that that's like, you know, top of my list. But it's in your blend. The improvisational component. I love anything improvisational. And I love the harmonies, too. So I think those things really were actually going to see Billy Strings up in St. Augustine. Sure. Weeks. I was going to ask it when you brought up bluegrass. I was going to say, you know, I know you like jam music. I can see your whole all of your tapes of the dead. I've gotten super into Billy Strings. So into not just Billy himself, but the violinist. Oh, sure. Right. The banjo, the standup bass, the mandolin. There's so tight. Yeah. Yeah. He he loves. So that's why I knew you would perk up when he was talking about the bluegrass. So that's really cool. And that's St. Augustine theater is amazing, too. I went up there in end of October. I was somewhere in this goose shirt. Oh, you saw goose. Yeah. I've seen him a handful of times, probably six, seven times. But so we saw him in Miami. They played like a Wednesday. And then Friday, Saturday, they played up at that St. Augustine theater. That was my first time going up there. But it is awesome. They've really got it down. We haven't been there yet. We're looking forward to it. You guys are going to love it. We're so excited. We I think we're in the last row because the tickets sold out. But I hopefully there's not a bad seat up there. That's pretty kind of jam heavy. People love it. Yeah. Tickets to that amphitheater sell out so fast. It's not huge. Yeah. Part of what makes it so nice. Yeah. We're looking forward to it. We're trying to buy tickets and you had to buy a three day pass. Yeah. So we're going out for three days. Twist our arm. Yeah. Yeah.

Part of what makes it so nice. Yeah. We're looking forward to it. We're trying to buy tickets and you had to buy a three day pass. Yeah. So we're going out for three days. Twist our arm. Yeah. Yeah. I know we're not to. Now, what did your mom do? Was she a stay at home mom or? Yeah, my mom. So she raised me and she raised Sydney and then she worked alongside my dad for a while. She would help him with various things for the business. And what does your dad do? My dad's an entrepreneur. So he's had a number of different ventures, but all travel oriented. And so until recently, he's got one that's kind of in a different field now. But he sold cruises on the Internet, actually. OK, cool. His company was one of the first to sell cruises on the Internet. And he's actually in the Cruise Line Hall of Fame. No way. No way. That is so cool. That is so cool. That's cool. OK, so to go back to high school. So you're playing football. You're in your first unofficial band with your friend, Bobby. And then you graduate. Did you go to college from there or did you decide just to delve right into music? No, I went to FSU. OK. Yeah. So I went to FSU and went up to Tallahassee summer of 2014. Was that somewhere? Was that your first choice? No. And actually, so this is some maybe important context that I'll slide into. So I mentioned I was never the best like book student. You know, my I had one biology teacher who used to get mad at me. She said I just learned by osmosis because I would go and I would just sit there and I'd crack jokes and sometimes I'd even not off in class like, you know, whatever. I just I was sharp and I would just soak it all in. Yeah. And but I was really prominent in the extracurriculars. So I was in a club called Decca.

even not off in class like, you know, whatever. I just I was sharp and I would just soak it all in. Yeah. And but I was really prominent in the extracurriculars. So I was in a club called Decca. Yeah, actually, I was one of the presidents with me and my friend Bobby. We were so tight, him and I that instead of one of us running for president and one of us running for VP were like, let's run as co-presidents. Oh, I love that. That's awesome. And then senior year, I was Mr. Boca High. Oh, really? Yeah. Wait. OK. So wait. Now we switch. We switch schools. You went to Boca High. Just Boca Christian for middle school and then you went. And then I went to Boca High. OK, so you went from a private school into a public school for ninth grade. Then. Yeah. And it was one of the best things that could happen. So was there how was that, though, in ninth grade? How was that transition? Was it hard for you to acclimate in with the public school kids? Or was it challenging all coming from a smaller school? I don't think so. Not for me, because I had a good group of friends from Boca Christian. So some of my best friends, Zach, Austin and Pedro, all made that same switch. Our parents were like kind of united on that front. Like, yeah, there was. There was a stigma about leaving Boca Christian because they had the high school, too. And like you would kind of get like a small blacklisted or like, you know, people. They they thought about it. Oh, well, you're not going to go to the high school and you can't do this or that. So my parents were like, all right, we're going to all do it together with all of our kids. Yeah. So we made that transition together and already having kind of like a prebuilt in group of friends to make the move with. That's that's smart.

going to all do it together with all of our kids. Yeah. So we made that transition together and already having kind of like a prebuilt in group of friends to make the move with. That's that's smart. It was a small spot you could go in with. Yeah, that's smart. You could hang out at lunch or whatever. Right. And then I meet my friend Bobby. That was during the summer, like two days for football. Like it's a freshman year hadn't even started yet. Yeah. And I'm already meeting people that that I'm becoming really good friends with. So so you're glad that you went to such a large high school. Yeah, absolutely. I think I'm a social person and like there's benefits. You go into a small school like don't get me wrong. Oh, you want to be in the band? Oh, you want to do this? So you want to like you have a shot to do everything. Yeah. But having to compete to do the things that I wanted to do, especially like be the president of the club or be Mr. Boca high, like I had to run against other people to interviews with everyone, including the principal, like, you know, there's a lot of stuff that I did that helped prepare me, I think for later in life and give me a lot of confidence. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I and I think Boca, especially academically, what you can get from it. Yeah. At the time, you know, number 22 public school in the nation. Yeah. Yeah. With all the ACE and the AP and it still has. It still offers that. So, OK, so then you graduate Boca high. And but you were saying you were learning through osmosis. Yeah. So my first pick was to go to University of Florida. And my other FSU people like guys are going to hate hearing that. I'm sure maybe some of you guys know that maybe not. I had a lot of like my other friends that I mentioned,

And my other FSU people like guys are going to hate hearing that. I'm sure maybe some of you guys know that maybe not. I had a lot of like my other friends that I mentioned, they had older siblings that went there and I just, you know, I went up to visit and I had other people that I was friends with that were older that I went and visited and I saw the games. I saw Jamis Winston absolutely scorched them one time for UF FSU games through. I remember it was awesome. A huge huge bomb to Kelvin Benjamin. I never forget being there and being like, ah, shit, we're getting smoked. But this Jamis guy is awesome. Yeah. But then, yeah. So I ended up I didn't get in FSU was next school on my list. And so I applied to UNC, but, you know, I didn't get in there. I didn't really want to go to Miami. So FSU was now when you did you tour the schools before? Yeah, both of them. Now, when you walked onto each campus, did you feel you belong to one over the other? They're very different campuses. I didn't feel like a different sense of belonging, though. Okay. So you would have been fine with either one. I definitely knew more people at UF and that's why I wanted to go there. And, you know, I can say subjectively, maybe it would have been better or worse in the outcome of my life, but here I am. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think, um, you know, it's tough to be like, oh, it could have gone this way. It could have gone this way. But I'm happy with the fact that I went to FSU. It opened up in a weird roundabout way. A lot of other opportunities for me to learn and grow and develop myself. Yeah. That I'm grateful of. And I'm sure that I wouldn't have gotten at UF. It's probably more of a challenge. It was a huge challenge. Socially, at least. Right.

learn and grow and develop myself. Yeah. That I'm grateful of. And I'm sure that I wouldn't have gotten at UF. It's probably more of a challenge. It was a huge challenge. Socially, at least. Right. Because you're having to meet make new friends and all of that. Whereas you would have more of a comfort group, maybe at UF. Yeah, definitely. It put me it put me in position like so. I think going to college in general and like my parents again, I've mentioned how supportive they are and how amazing they are. But with that comes like a degree of like shelteredness and structure that isn't entirely your own. And then so my for some people, I guess, are ready for that. And I was not at all. So when I got to FSU and I'm like, well, you know, they're not the best. Academic school. But what are they really good at? They're really good at partying and winning football games. So I lacked for sure that like self governance. And I dove into like, you know, maybe things that in retrospect, I shouldn't have been spending all my time doing. Right. Right. But like I said, get that out of your system early and it poses challenges. I didn't know what I wanted to study. And I got some advice if I could give to any younger people out there listening is like, doesn't matter what school you're going to, but like set your intention before you go. My intention was non existent. I was like, all right, I'm going now. Like, let's see what happens. Yeah. And I think if I had had a plan, if I had and I get it so hard for kids to be like, what do you want to do with your life? I mean, shit, I'm still figuring it out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's why we're doing a podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think everyone can relate to that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, shit, I'm still figuring it out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's why we're doing a podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think everyone can relate to that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but but yeah, set an intention and I didn't have one and I studied general business and then I studied marketing. And then I studied music for a semester, like music production and commercial music. And then actually at one point I even got academically dismissed because I wasn't. Oh, wow. Yeah. No, it was a tough situation. Was that like in the early freshman or senior year? So you were really enjoying yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Did you join a front? But I think I wasn't a fraternity. Yeah. But I think what you're describing to is part of the college experience because you came out on the other side, you're doing well. And part of college is that right? Not everybody says the same. For sure. They're not on the same path, right? Some kids go into school and they're out in two years with a degree. Others go in and it's just a different path. It's just out. And that's that's, you know, when I said FSU in the end gave me different experiences that I would have never got from the University of Florida. Yeah. Like so I get academically dismissed. I go to TCC for a semester. I reapply to FSU. They have a program like TCC to FSU. Yeah. I don't get reaccepted. I'm freaking out. I'm like, all right. Shit, what do I do? Oh, my gosh, this is happening senior year. Yeah, this is actually I'm a little even after that now. And so now I move back home. OK. And I'm like, all right. Well, let me apply to FAU. I'd have FAU. I don't get in. I'm like, I'm going to go to PBS. I'm freaking out. Yeah. And then actually I was scrolling through LinkedIn.

OK. And I'm like, all right. Well, let me apply to FAU. I'd have FAU. I don't get in. I'm like, I'm going to go to PBS. I'm freaking out. Yeah. And then actually I was scrolling through LinkedIn. Why? I don't know, like talking about all these different social media platforms and never do this. And I see this article about this lady from FSU Jill, and she's pioneering an innovative new program where she's basically cold calling students who got 80 percent of their way to the degree and coming up with ways that they can still graduate from FSU. That's amazing. Wow. And I'm like, holy shit. Yeah, this is me. So I send her an email. Hey, this is my story. She was let's get on a call. And she. Talk about people that I have. I owe huge thing. I don't even know if she remembers me, but I owe Jill so much thanks because she went and she she talked to the degree posting. What do they call it? But anyways, from TCC and they found out that my degree, just posted incorrectly. And that's why FSU rejected me. And that's why FA you rejected me. And she got it fixed. She got me readmitted, hooked me up with an adviser, got me on a fully remote online program. And I really helped put all the pieces together for me. My buddy Bobby, his dad had had I was working for him actually at this time. So, you know, thank you to to their family also for giving me a job while I navigated all this. That's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing. Was that during COVID as well? Yeah, I've ended up my graduation date was December of 2021. OK. OK. And you got to you got to walk and everything up. But I had the opportunity to walk, but I didn't. Yeah. But that's amazing that that happened. I mean, that just blows my mind because I can't imagine the stress

to walk and everything up. But I had the opportunity to walk, but I didn't. Yeah. But that's amazing that that happened. I mean, that just blows my mind because I can't imagine the stress you were going through senior year having that happen. I that's insane alone. And then to reapply and to be denied, not just from FSU, but then from FAU. Yeah, that wouldn't I'm glad that you stayed on that. And you said it was just you randomly were scrolling LinkedIn. But the fact that you still were like, I'm going to email her. I'm going to see what comes of this, you know, and because to get that far and then to not be able to finish it would have just, you know, something you would have regretted in general. So, oh, and, you know, that that was one of the big things that was weighing on me. I see all my other friends. They have their degrees. Yeah. One of my friends is working for Microsoft and killing it. And I'm like, yeah, holy shit, I'm so far behind him. My dad in particular, who's very strong willed, he's business minded, successful at everything he does. I know how much it was eating at him. So part of me is like, I have to do this for myself, but also I have to do this for him. Yeah, I have to close the chapter. And he always told me, he's like, look, a degree, that's what it's for at the end of the day to prove that you can see something through. And, you know, I definitely had my share of of obstacles and hurdles to overcome in that process. But man, did it feel good when I finally got it. I bet. What was your degree in? It was interdisciplinary social sciences with the concentration in economics and geography. Nice. I love it. I love it. You sure you weren't on the football team. Yeah. So that 2021 was a big year for you

with the concentration in economics and geography. Nice. I love it. I love it. You sure you weren't on the football team. Yeah. So that 2021 was a big year for you because you were finishing that degree. You graduated December 2021. Yeah. So was there anything else going on that year that any big changes? Yeah. So 2021, just in general. So at the at the time when I moved back, I was working for my buddy, Bobby's dad's company, and I was living in a house with two of my buddies, Zach and then Bobby. And so it was during the covid era. So we're all working together from home. It kind of you guys have seen that show Workaholics. No. OK. It's basically a bunch of friends who work together. That's an office setting. But it was like it was that in our house. What were you doing? I was working for Bobby's dad's company, which was an investment bank. OK. And I was I was not family, but I was like basically an eptism hire. Yeah. And so this is the best kind. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So no, it was it was cool. It was a good opportunity. Like I said, I'm grateful for them. I don't think it was a good fit for me at the end of the day. And like my direct boss, I wasn't getting a lot of like mentorship or support or guidance from. But it was it was a job. And yeah, it paid. They paid me probably better than I should have been paid. And it allowed me to finish up everything. But yeah, I went so as I'm going through this time, this volatile transition period leaving FSU trying to figure out how I'm going to finish my degree. You know, I didn't have a lot of confidence. I had put on a bunch of weight in the process. And I was kind of really just like in a in a rut. And I know kind of from some of the other podcasts I listen to, I know you're more of

I had put on a bunch of weight in the process. And I was kind of really just like in a in a rut. And I know kind of from some of the other podcasts I listen to, I know you're more of a philosophical guy. So one one that I personally subscribe to is peaks and valleys. And in the way that it works is this, it's like life is going to be a series of ups and downs. Yeah, for sure. But what does that mean? It means when you're in a valley, you can always keep your head up because you know there's a peak coming. But when you are on a peak, when you feel like things are going well, don't be afraid to stop for a second and actually just appreciate how great it really is. And so true. That is so true. So true. And then yeah, thanks. In that moment, I was definitely in a valley. And I even had this thought on my head, though. So, you know, I knew it was going to be all right. But another one of my my best friends, a couple of my best friends, they all rallied around me to basically support me and help me out. Sal is he does amazing things with meditation and breath work. And he's actually in Peru right now teaching class. He taught a class on meditation to like 250 people down there on the beach. Like, wow, he's made his own company. What's the name of his company? Liberti. Yeah, Liberti. L I B E R T I. He comes back to Boca every now and then he does classes. He does this thing called holotrophic breath work, which if you've never done, you should try. But anyways, he helped. He was really like the voice that I could talk to about all of this. How did you get connected with him? Playing football at Boca High. OK. And he moved into Boca High junior year. And we played together and we had class together. And, you know, my core group of friends

Playing football at Boca High. OK. And he moved into Boca High junior year. And we played together and we had class together. And, you know, my core group of friends really brought him in to and my buddy Zach dated his sister. OK. Well, his sister was friends with my sister. So it's all kind of like, yes, yes, yes. It's all it's all kind of all work and active. And then my other friend Austin, another smart guy entrepreneur, had a fitness company that he started called Boca Body. And so, you know, I'm talking to Sal, getting the mental piece, you know, figured out talking to Austin and like, yo, Austin, man, I really need some help with this. So he comes up with I think I was like their second client, maybe. But he puts together a whole plan, 90 day transformation. And then there's another dude he worked with named Sean, who is just a fantastic trainer. And they work with me and, you know, got me. I was at like, you know, almost 220 pounds and I cut down, cut 45 pounds off. Wow. Wow. Got got my confidence back, got my degree. That's amazing. Everything really kind of started to fall into place. Yeah. Sorry to get up on a peak. You ended on a peak. I started to. Yeah. Yeah. So Boca Body, is it is it like CrossFit, the concept like that? No, it was more just like he had me lifting weights and not so much cardio. But the whole idea was that it's kind of holistic rates. It's not just the workout component. They also, you know, got me on a diet, on a meal plan. I would have weekly check ins with him or with Sean. And then I was working out with Sean, too. And they have this app that they still have an app and it's got all these workouts on it. So, I mean, I owe him a good body. Yes. Very similar. Actually, I think they probably work on

And they have this app that they still have an app and it's got all these workouts on it. So, I mean, I owe him a good body. Yes. Very similar. Actually, I think they probably work on that with like a rebrand, like white label it to make it their own. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. That's life changing. It sure was. Because have you continued to take the things you transformed during 2021 with you up to this day? Peaks and valleys. I still I still make I still make the Boca Body smoothie recipe a couple of times. There you go. So there you go. Now, there I think just that shift and because that's how I was back when I was in high school. You know, I was playing football. I was I wasn't like ever. I wasn't like in great shape, but I wasn't in bad shape. And I was clear minded and I was confident and I was social and I was going. And I just felt like a piece of me had been robbed by kind of the struggles and the adversity I went through going to finishing my college experience. But to see all of that kind of come through and pull through with help from Jill that I randomly found on LinkedIn and help from some of my best friends and support from my parents and my mom. I haven't talked about my mom at all yet, but she was. I can't say enough about her. She's just the most amazing person in the world. So I'm sure she's she's supported you through every step of everything. I think and actually I was going to ask you because it feels so apparent based on what you've said so far about your parents. You're in this valley. They had to have been there for you the whole time, right? My dad was pissed. We're supposed to be. That's our job. Rightfully so. But my mom was was a cheerleader for me throughout the whole thing. And I'm sure she got some

My dad was pissed. We're supposed to be. That's our job. Rightfully so. But my mom was was a cheerleader for me throughout the whole thing. And I'm sure she got some flack from my dad even at times. Like, how can you support him through this? Like he's fucking around so much. But, you know, it is what it is. And, you know, my dad and I were on great terms now. We've never been better. Yeah. My mom, same thing. You know, I try and take her out and treat her and do things just to to let her know how much I care and how appreciative I am. But if it wasn't for them and if it wasn't for my friends and it wasn't for this amazing support network that I had. I mean, who knows how things could have turned out. I mean, I'm strong willed. I'm confident. I'm determined. But, you know, to anyone that might be struggling with something. I know there's kids out there that are in the same position that I was in. Struggled in college. Don't know what they're going to do. Get help and just get it from your friends or from the people that care the most about. Yes. Did you ask for help or did they just kind of know it and kind of like a symbiotic thing? I was never like, guys, I need help. But, you know, with best friends, you talk to them and you tell them the things you're going through, the things you're struggling with. Yeah. And so, yeah, they help me. They help me resolve that and see through to the other side. So it's amazing. And as far as moms, I mean, we typically, no matter what, have our kids backs, even, you know, even if the dad is like, come on. Like that, that's our job. You know, that's that's 100 percent our job. And it's just wonderful that your parents, even because they were always so supportive of you, but even when it

Like that, that's our job. You know, that's that's 100 percent our job. And it's just wonderful that your parents, even because they were always so supportive of you, but even when it got really maybe dark or a little, they were still 100 percent. Even if your dad was frustrated, he was so there for you. You know, and I'm sure your sister in addition to your friends. So so you have this pivotal moment and what then you take on. You head into 2022. Do you continue to work for Bobby's dad during that time? Yeah. So I did until March of 2022. So the nature of the business was kind of like, you know, we'd work on big deals for a couple of months and commission checks come through. So kind of like it was like we're working on a big deal. So I worked with it to see through the end of it. And then after that. Yeah, that's all right. And then after that, I I decided, OK, I want to make a change. You know, I'm not super inspired, you know, working in this role. I'm not being challenged the way that I'd like to be. And I know that something something has to go a little different in order for us for me to keep developing myself and growing because I'm on this path of growth and development, so I need that to continue. So I actually took about a three month break just from working, kind of like a lot of people do like a gap year or something after they graduate. Well, I never really had a chance to do that. So I I did a couple of things. I was dating a girl at the time and her family was from up north in Massachusetts. So I went up and I visited them, you know, went out to Martha's Vineyard and had a family reunion with them. Yeah, which was cool. We went on a cruise. I played a we played a lot of music. I think that May of twenty two, we played

know, went out to Martha's Vineyard and had a family reunion with them. Yeah, which was cool. We went on a cruise. I played a we played a lot of music. I think that May of twenty two, we played something like six shows, which was a lot for us. Everyone in the band is is working. So wait, we skipped ahead. So where did the band? So the band and when is the band formed? The band. So I didn't form the band. I would have met them in the end of twenty, twenty one. And this is a funny story. So the way that I met them was that I was at a company Christmas party December of twenty one. And, you know, I work with some other guys my age, Bobby, and other friends and we were it was it was like on somewhere on the beach in Delray. We had like a nice Christmas party. We're all wearing suits and we decide afterwards to go. Let's go out to the avenue. Let's go out. And we bopped around to a couple of different places and ultimately ended up at a bar called Third and Third, which I don't know if you guys are were familiar. Yeah, I think we saw you there. Yes, we did. That's right. We did. Because I remember you were in the back when we played Shakedown Street. Yeah, you're bobbing your head. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But so I had a similar experience there. I know I'm in the back and I'm, you know, we're drinking and all of a sudden I'm looking up there and I see these guys. And it was my musical. Like I have like three stories that I could tell. There's like there's the musical development story. There's the personal story which we've been on. And then there's like the career trajectory one. We've kind of left some of the music stuff out. But just to give a quick kind of catch up to speed at this point, I'm playing with a group of like 55,

the career trajectory one. We've kind of left some of the music stuff out. But just to give a quick kind of catch up to speed at this point, I'm playing with a group of like 55, six year old dudes based out of Coral Springs called the Ruminators. That is like I've heard of them. I yeah, I have. No, I have. I've heard of them. Why would I? I feel like one of my one of my friends. I feel like I've heard of them. And I looked them up. Dead music. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. One of my friends, husbands plays in that band. You know, yeah, I have to say, Jeff Rich. Oh, we're not like we're not close, close. It'll come to me as we're talking. But I looked them up because of your, you know, what? Yeah. And I saw these old guys. Some like I don't have the right band. Yeah, no, you know, you have the right band. Yeah, no, no, I know who that. So you played with them. So we there's a website out there called Bandmix. And Bandmix is basically like match.com for musicians. I'm like I'm a keyboard player seeking the band. It's like jam music. These are my influences. And then Scott is over there on the other side. And he's like, I am a band that plays most of the Grateful Dead, looking for a keyboard player. And so he called me. We had a big chat. He's actually a big fan of Goose, too. So I remember having the conversation with them that day on the phone. And I was like, all right, yeah, screw it. I'll I'll take my gear and I'll go out there and they practice in Jeff's garage, which he's got like you guys, a really nice studio here. He's got his he's got it figured out. He's got a really nice nice garage. But so I'm playing dead music with these guys. I'm a big head already at this point, which we can get back to. Yeah. Yeah. And what year with this? So is this this was like

But so I'm playing dead music with these guys. I'm a big head already at this point, which we can get back to. Yeah. Yeah. And what year with this? So is this this was like like late 2020, earlier 2021. So when you move back, I move back, I move back in 2018. So I've been back. Remember, he didn't he didn't go up for the graduation walk. He was remote at that point. I did it on. OK, so you were here. Correct. This is did you do any music in FSU? Uh, yes, yes. I so I saw I had a band up there called the Stone Keys Band, which is I put that on the list, too. Yeah, that was basically a band that combined people from different fraternities and sorority, we had a girl, too. She was in one of the sororities. And thank God we had her because she got us booked at sorority events and she would all her friends out, which is which was great. And actually, one of the guys in the band, a drummer, that his name is Angelo, he's out in Nashville doing music now. Wow. My other buddy, Sean, he was one of our guitar players. Now he's out and he wasn't awesome for a while. I think he's in Seattle now and they have a band. Wow. I'll look that up if we could plug. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anybody in balcony bridge, balcony bridge based out of Seattle. They're awesome, too. And then another friend, Josh, one of the best guitar players I played was just the touch the guy has in the ear for music is spectacular. Anyways, so yeah, I played with them. Was that your next band after you and Bobby had your little and Bobby Bobby was our singer. Yeah, so it went from you and Bobby in like those years. Yeah. And then we got up to FSU and we're like, all right, time to start a real band. So that was your first, quote unquote, real band.

and Bobby in like those years. Yeah. And then we got up to FSU and we're like, all right, time to start a real band. So that was your first, quote unquote, real band. Yes. Was the Stone Keys. Yes. OK. And then I have to also mention Mitchell, who is one of my best friends, who is co-worker, fraternity brother, roommate, now bandmates and the current co-worker. We were still very and he's a current band that we plan to. But he was the bass player to first stent in the Stone Keys band. So we had we had a nice. And that was from different fraternities and then the sorority. And so that was great because we could get people, people from all over. It wasn't like we're only playing for ourselves. That is so cool. So you did that. And then when you left, Hallie did was at the end of that. So he's for you. This band did the Stone Keys band because everyone kind of went their different ways. Yeah. OK. But I still got a logo. I have the logo. I have the website. So it's cool. Very cool. Maybe it'll make a resurgence at some point. And then what's your next band, The Ruminators? No, I threw band mix. I got connected with a group. They were calling themselves The Anonymous. And they were basically they related to church. They were praising worship band for a church that was creating a secular band to go play bars. OK, wow. And that was like my first like, oh, I'm back here in South Florida. And actually, so. There's two other moments that I'd like to share. One is actually I put it on the list of piano recital when I was. Yeah. When I was younger and I don't know, I must have been. I was in middle school, early middle school and. Dave Kirk had had me practicing and preparing Pachelbel's Canon. You know, don't know.

Yeah. When I was younger and I don't know, I must have been. I was in middle school, early middle school and. Dave Kirk had had me practicing and preparing Pachelbel's Canon. You know, don't know. So there's a piano recital, whatever for a book of Christian. And, you know, I've been practicing, but I was like. Not really practicing like I should. And long story short, the recital day comes and I get up there and, you know, it's probably 300 people, whatever. It's a lot of people. There's like the yes, it is. The auditorium. It's a lot of people. Yeah. There's a lot of people, I guess. And so I'm playing and about halfway through, I completely lose my place in the music, completely lose my place. But I didn't stop. I just I was like, I just can't stop because that's going to be the worst thing I could do. Yeah. So I finally get my get my way back and I finished a song. And it's like one of those like. Like slow, slow, awkward, like, oh, man, should we clap for him kind of thing? So and I walk off and as I'm getting off stage, just one dad, not my dad, a dad that was there runs up. He's like way to finish, son. And I'm like, what a dick. Oh, my gosh, was he doing it to be me? No, no, I think he was trying to be supportive. He was really trying to encourage me. But I was like, I was like, that's not that's not what I want to hear. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the worst thing about it was Dave Kirk had come that night. He was there and I sat down and you know, so you did great. But I know that I didn't do great. So my dad, he is saying perfect practice prevents piss poor performance. I like that was a perfect practice. Seven P's, how many P's are on? Yeah, I like that. So after that, that really struck me like, all right,

prevents piss poor performance. I like that was a perfect practice. Seven P's, how many P's are on? Yeah, I like that. So after that, that really struck me like, all right, I'm not going into anything unprepared. And even like my Bobby, just two weekends ago, we celebrated his birthday is on the 15th and we do a big brunch. We've been doing a brunch for like, you know, the past couple of years. And now I like I give a speech every year and I'll come with like, you know, charts and like exhibits and like I write my notes out my friends are like, oh, go with the pageantry always with the pageantry. But I think I got that from that. Like, even if it's something small, like a work presentation, if it doesn't matter what it is, I'm going to be prepared. I'm going to be rehearsed. Right. Right. Right. There's one piece. And then that was a pivotal moment that you took and then applied your what your dad had taught you. You kind of learned that lesson early. I had to learn it. You know, though. Yes. And you were in line. No, I was a little older. I was probably like, I don't know, whatever. Six or six. Great. Okay. So was like eleven, eleven, twelve. And you know, would have taken a moment like that for you to truly understand your dad's motto. Yeah. To be able to apply it. And then it then it's it's some came from me. And then so so now I'm back, like so fast forward a little bit. I get back from Tallahassee. I'm still here. I'm figuring all my shit out. And I'm like, man, you know, what's missing? Like, you know, for my life right now is music. You know, I haven't I haven't really played with anyone. Actually, first jam concert I ever went to aside from. And we'll get back to some shore when I saw a dead in company,

You know, I haven't I haven't really played with anyone. Actually, first jam concert I ever went to aside from. And we'll get back to some shore when I saw a dead in company, which was really my introduction to jam music, was Humphries McGee at the Fillmore in Miami. I didn't even know who they were. Yeah, they're good. They're good. Yeah, they're sweet. But during a separate I'm walking around the Fillmore and there's a there was an upright piano and I'm just like, oh, you know, let me fuck around on it a little. And this guy comes up to me. He's like, yo, I have a band and we really need a keyboard player or a keyboard player just left. Like, would you want to audition? And I'm like, all right, yeah, why not? So they're based out of Boca, too. It worked out great. So but it was like Scott Rege. I never played anything like that. That was kind of outside of my wheelhouse. But I was like, all right, yeah, whatever. Screw it. I'll go and I'll see. Wow. And I show up to this rehearsal and I absolutely bombed. Just horrible. And like everyone, they were they were good. It wasn't really my style of music, but they had horns, horn section. Like they were like a lot going on. Yeah, they were. They were they were rocking and. Afterwards, the guy, he's kind of like, oh, right. Well, like, you know, if they want you to come back, I'll call you. And I was like, I knew I was like, I tank that shit. Yeah. So then that was the other moment where I was like, you know what? I'm better than that. I need to. Step up my game. So I went and I bought myself a new keyboard. I started really practicing, really rehearsing, learning a ton of dead tunes, which you call these chords, which you should be a better musician. Yeah. I'm focusing on improvising.

I started really practicing, really rehearsing, learning a ton of dead tunes, which you call these chords, which you should be a better musician. Yeah. I'm focusing on improvising. Then I started playing with these guys, the anonymous. OK, and I found them through band mix, too. And they were good. They were really, really good. They were very much just starting out. And some of the guys were kind of there were some guys who were very talented in the band. There were some guys that were much more like entry level musicians. Right. They had kind of like gotten their anyways. We go to the rehearsals and I'd be like ready to play. And the guys like, oh, wait, like, you know, let me let me look up the chords again. And I was just I felt like it wasn't organized. So that's why I started playing with the ruminators. OK. And I started playing with the ruminators. Now now we're back up to speed. Now I'm at third and third. OK. And I love the music. But and these guys, you know, they're up there in age a little bit. So they're not like jumping around and, you know, yes, they would play out like, you know, once a quarter, once every six months. And I see these young guys my age wearing dead shirts, playing Shakedown Street. And I'm over there in the back and I'm like, I got to play with these guys. They don't have a keyboard player. They need a keyboard player. And I'll never forget to that they played comfortably numb that the guitar players doing that whole crazy solo at the end. And I'm like, these guys are shit. So I go up there and I go to the bar. I'm like, I need I had a few. And I'm like, I need like receipt paper and a pen. Yeah. I write down my name, my number. You know, I slip it in the tip jar with

I'm like, I need I had a few. And I'm like, I need like receipt paper and a pen. Yeah. I write down my name, my number. You know, I slip it in the tip jar with some money and I'm like, call me. I'm like, I'll fill the space. Like they joke now. Like you said you were going to fill the space like 30 times. And and that's funny. Long story short, they ended up giving me a call. They gave me a call and I went out, auditioned with them. And we knew right away like, yo, this is going to be a good thing. Yeah, because that was a lot of it because of your commitment from what you and you said, I need to restructure. I need to commit again. And you put the work in. And then that then when you went to try audition for that band, it was like fit right in. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Perfect. So your hard work. You can't have a dead band without a keyboardist. No, no, no. And we're not we're not totally dead band, but we do play some dead songs. Yeah. Help on the way. Franklin's Tower. Yeah. Shake down. If it was up to me, we'd play more. Yeah. Yeah. There's this not contention, but I love that. Maybe too much. Well, no, I mean, there's so many songs you could pick. Dead songs that they could just it could be a whole show of just dead. Absolutely. You do multiple nights of just 100 percent. 100 percent. Yeah. When did you first hear the dead? So it was through Channel 23. Serious XM. The Grateful Dead channel. Yeah. So so I always knew it was there because it was right below 24, 25, 26 was like classic vinyl classic. Yeah. And I never really gave it its due. And at this point, I was already you know, I like Zeppelin. I like Pink Floyd. I like the Allman Brothers, a big Allman Brothers fan. Yeah. And I felt like I'd heard a lot of this stuff.

And at this point, I was already you know, I like Zeppelin. I like Pink Floyd. I like the Allman Brothers, a big Allman Brothers fan. Yeah. And I felt like I'd heard a lot of this stuff. And I was like, all right, you know what? Everyone is always hyping up the Grateful Dead, the Grateful Dead. This could tell I'm like, all right, let me just put on 23. And so I'm listening to it. I'm like, all right. You know, some of these recordings are kind of like they're old. Like, I don't know if the quality is the best. And I'm like, you know, I give it a shot a little bit. OK, go back to the regular stuff. And a couple of weeks later, all right, let me put it back. Let me see how it is. And I was like, you know what? Actually, I started to come around to it. Man, I wish I could go see these guys. And then all of a sudden they play one dead and company comes on instead. And I'm like, well, this is different. And I'm like, I started looking it up. I'm like, holy shit. These guys are touring now. Yeah, I could actually go see this band. Yeah. So I text my buddy Zach, who's again, he's not a head either. He's not gotten into jam music. We just both like music. And I'm like, yo, dude, this show is going to be in Boulder like over Fourth of July weekend 2019. I'm like, would you be interested in going? And he goes, dude, I have an uncle to live in Boulder. We could just go stay with them. It's going to be perfect. So we fly out there. We have no idea what's even going on. O'Teal was on the plane with us. No way. Well, he lives in Boca. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't even know. Oh, my goodness. And we're sitting there in a baggage claim and we're like asking other people. They're like, yo, are you going to the Dead Show?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't even know. Oh, my goodness. And we're sitting there in a baggage claim and we're like asking other people. They're like, yo, are you going to the Dead Show? And they're like, everyone on this plane is going to the Dead Show. Like look around. Everyone's in tie dye. Yeah. Oh, that doesn't make sense. He's like, actually, that's a bass player over there. We're like, yeah. No way. These guys kid on his shoulders like, you know, it's just cool. You know, so was it at was it at Red Rocks? No, it was at Folsom Field. OK. And so we go. I didn't even know when we bought the tickets, but it was the final show of the tour. And we just got an absolute scorcher set list. And of which the only song I knew ahead of time was Scarlett Bagonia's. Yeah. And it's one of the best songs. It is one of the best songs. And then ever since, you know, I got back and I was like, dude, I can't stop thinking about it. Loser Eyes of the World, Not Fade Away, like all these just songs that are some of my favorite songs now. Yeah. And and me and Zach, we dove like, you know, head in into the music and we couldn't stop listening to it. And then that's ultimately how I got introduced to Goose also, because Goose played at this playing in the sand in 2021 or two. As like the pool party band. Yeah. Yeah. Which was but so, yeah, ever since now, I've seen Dead in Company probably six or seven times. I saw once in my dad, I really feel my dad's not ahead at all. Yeah, that's cool. I saw them at the sphere last year. How was that? Because I when I see it like on social media or whatever, it looks like I feel like I would get dizzy. I did for one second. Yeah. Yeah. And it's I don't know if they've changed the visuals like for this year,

like on social media or whatever, it looks like I feel like I would get dizzy. I did for one second. Yeah. Yeah. And it's I don't know if they've changed the visuals like for this year, but when they started out, it was like that high street like house. And then it like backs up and then like zooms you out from the earth until you like get to space. And that's when they start doing all the cool visuals and stuff. Yeah. But like in that first moment, I'm like standing up trying to dance and like I'm getting like zoomed out backwards. And I was like, well, what the hell? You lose your freedom of reference. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was like, I don't have to sit down, but I grabbed the chair. And I was like, yeah, this is strange. And then, you know, then the whole rest of it, like it was fine. Oh, yeah, maybe a little bit disorienting at times, but not like that. Right. And at the end, they zoomed you back in. And but the zooming in was fine. It was zooming out. That was. Yeah. Yeah. OK. That's that's an interesting perspective. So when you first went to the Dead and Company show, did you know anything about the culture? Did you know about the Shakedown Street parking lot scene? No. The only thing I knew was I was reading like, oh, going to my first dead show, like, what should I expect? And like I read some some cynic on the Internet. I don't even know how I found this dude's article. And he's like, I don't know why anyone would want to go see the dead. Sounds like someone tuning a guitar for three hours. Then I was like, well, yeah, I was like, all right. Well, whatever. So yeah, then I'm like, all right. Yeah, forget it. We'll just go and we'll have a good time. Yeah. And we sat in the way back. Like probably the furthest seats you could have.

Well, whatever. So yeah, then I'm like, all right. Yeah, forget it. We'll just go and we'll have a good time. Yeah. And we sat in the way back. Like probably the furthest seats you could have. I was blocked by a field goal post. Oh, my God. I remember just listening to the music and just being like, oh, my God, this is crazy. Yeah. And actually, you know, I wanted to ask you guys, you know, how did you get I mean, you have what is this, 150 to 100 tapes here? Yeah, it probably about 100 to 200. Wow. Yeah. So how did you get introduced? For me, you go first. Funny thing is, actually, I was when I first heard the dead, I didn't like them. I was like, turn this off. I don't like this. And then slowly got into it. It was in high school. I saw my first dead show in 1986 at Giant Stadium. And, you know, you go to your first show and if you're into it, you're into it in your hook. So I rolled into Giant Stadium as a 15 year old kid. And we pull into the parking lot and there's like big boats. People towed their boats and they're partying in their boats. People are pushing people around in dumpsters and partying and just the shakedown scene. And then it was with dead in the Dylan. So Bob Dylan played with Grateful Dead. Dylan in the summer. Yeah, Dylan in the dead. And then, you know, it just kind of happens. Sure. You know, it just kind of because, you know, when I was in high school, I was I played sports, I was in the three sports and then. But then you discover the Grateful Dead and it's this. It just it's life changing. How many shows would you say that you've been to? We've been over 100, I would say. Yeah, about well, you know, just the dead in Garcia, probably around 75 to 80. And you start tagging on like like we've

say that you've been to? We've been over 100, I would say. Yeah, about well, you know, just the dead in Garcia, probably around 75 to 80. And you start tagging on like like we've I took Nathan to see further. Sure. Down in what's the little place by Bayfront? He was a young kid, actually. So they've seen Bayfront. We've seen like Bobby Bobby's. We're the wall grows. Yeah. And Bobby on his own. And then we've been the rat dog. That's where Jeff, the keyboard player. Yeah, you know, I was going to ask you about him. Are you? I'm a huge fan. I think he's amazing. Yeah, yeah. Like the way that he plays, because like I think a lot of musicians, they they get accustomed to the way that they like to play. And sometimes your ear starts to think like, oh, he's going to go here next because that's like how my ears been trained based off my own style, my own influences. His playing in particular never ceases to break that routine for me because the creativity and the way he approaches it, you just oh, he's going to go here. But he goes there instead. I would have never seen it coming. So I think my first impression of him was like, oh, this guy is good. But like, you know, whatever, there's better keyboard players out there. But as I listen and especially over the last, I mean, that was 2019 and now we're in 2025. So it's like six years of them continuing to play together. And this guy's chops are just off the rails. And that's on the piano. Not even to mention once he gets on the B3. Yeah, that's crazy. I think the first time I saw him was with rat dog. And it might have been here in Meisner Park. And I was like, this guy's pretty good. And then we saw him with further. And then then you see him with dead in

saw him was with rat dog. And it might have been here in Meisner Park. And I was like, this guy's pretty good. And then we saw him with further. And then then you see him with dead in company and then just watching him on YouTube and other things. Honestly, I don't know of anyone. I don't know if there's a better keyboardist right now that I can think of from an improv perspective of kind of like you're saying, I think he could play with anybody. I'm sure he could play with anyone. Yeah. Yeah. He's there's another guy in the scene, too, that I think has also been a really big influence. And that's Marco Benavento from J. Rad. A hundred percent. He's phenomenal, too. Yeah. J. Rad's awesome. He's incredible. And some of the things that he does on the keys makes me feel like he's got four arms or something. I don't know. Have you listened to? Well, my first show was at the Otsun Stadium in Oregon. Oh, great. From Oregon. Yeah. So my experience at the same time frame and everything, my experience with it was life change. I think with the dead, when everyone first hears it, it's more like white. And it's that reaction of I don't understand this. And then it helps to go see them live. And then obviously once Jerry died, that became almost impossible. But then, you know, with further and with debt and company, it offers that experience for younger generations. So I am so grateful for that because you can listen to it and listen to it and listen to it. But until you have a live experience, that's what really solidifies understanding all of it, the culture of it. Because there's a culture, too. And it's a culture that once you're a deadhead, it becomes a part of your life. And it's it never leaves you. It's like in your blood.

it, the culture of it. Because there's a culture, too. And it's a culture that once you're a deadhead, it becomes a part of your life. And it's it never leaves you. It's like in your blood. And it's hard to explain. And there's a saying for deadheads. We are everywhere and we are everywhere of all ages. And I know Brian and I, when we go to different because we'll go see cover bands, too. And I love seeing people your age there. I love it. Like it's it's it gives me such hope. I love it. It doesn't work as well for me, though. I love that debt and company is going for you guys. But for me, they're just a cover band because we got to see Jerry live. How you guys feel about it? I don't want to sound like a dick, right? Because that kind of can come across as Dickie. But it's like the Allman Brothers without Greg Allman. Sure. They're no longer the Allman Brothers. The Grateful Dead without Jerry's no longer the dead. So it's it's hard. But I like debt and company. I enjoy it because it was it was pretty so many. I don't know. It's so many. It's so many members. Yeah. Yeah. But it's it's so many members still with Billy and Mickey and Bobby there. You still have so many members of the dead. It isn't I don't view them as a cover band at all. I know Brian does. We differ in that. So I still think it still is going strong, though, the whole culture of it. But, you know, we've passed on the dead to our kids. Nathan is a big dead head. That's how I knew. Yeah. So Nate and I have even gone to see a couple of like unlimited devotion. Yeah. Yeah. Uncle Mike's one time and we went. But what you were saying about them being a cover band, you know, for me, I think the perception is a little different just because I was never.

Yeah. Yeah. Uncle Mike's one time and we went. But what you were saying about them being a cover band, you know, for me, I think the perception is a little different just because I was never. Of course. I never would have had the opportunity. So I'm grateful that the music is out there being played at such a high level by such talented musicians and just the nature of that style of music. Being so improvisational. I mean, there's they played what, 250 nights a year for 50 years or something like that. Yeah. And no. There's a T-shirt that tells you all about it. Yeah. No two recordings are the same. So even though, yes, it's it's different nowadays, it would have been different anyways. Yes. So you're right. Just that's how I view it. And so then if it's J-Rad, if it's dead in company, if it's Crazy Fingers, Depot or the Biscuit or Unlimited Devote, like, I'm just happy to be able to be like you said, a part of the scene and hear and hear this music that takes you on such a journey. It's the magic. Yeah. It's the music never stopping. Yes. And that's what I love about it is the music is not stopping. And that to me is more important than who's playing it. Because when we're all there together, dancing, the energy is the same. I'm one of those that are dancing. And the energy is the same for me as when I was at a show. So I can tell you that when I am at one of those, whatever it was, dead in company or anything. And when, when I'm hearing the music, it's the same energy. It's the same vibe. It's the same magic. So you are experiencing what we experience. It's just that we were fortunate to experience with Jerry. Yes. So, but you're still having that same experience. I can tell you that because I, I have the same experience and I've seen you,

It's just that we were fortunate to experience with Jerry. Yes. So, but you're still having that same experience. I can tell you that because I, I have the same experience and I've seen you, you're dancing too. Yeah. I think the difference of thing I'm pondering it because I think what I, it's an interesting thing. If, if I think of maybe three bands, I really, really like would be the dead, the almond brothers and Billy strings. Sure. And obviously can't have the dead or the almond brothers anymore. What I really like about Billy strings is I'm sitting there. I'm like, okay, when they end the song, I'm like, all right, what's next? And it's more like, what's next? Yeah. I want to see where this goes. That's, I don't have that same vibe when like dead in company, you do to a point, but I don't know. It's just different. And I don't mean to shit on them. It's an amazing thing. They're still going. I think people shit on mirror unnecessarily, unfairly. Yeah. Phenomenal guitarist. Yeah. Phenomenal vocalist. Yes. He can go, you know, but the, but Bobby's older. Mickey and Billy are older. So it's, it's just different. But for you guys, it's Nathan loves it. You know, I think that's one of the things that makes it great to have the options though, because like they get critiqued all the time for the tempo. Yes. I think. Yes. Totally. There's merit to it. You know, they don't, they still get there and they have these amazing jams, but if you want more beat, you can see Jared. Yes. Yes. They're pushing the tent the whole time. And actually to what you said, like when Denko wraps up songs, you're not like, what's next? But I do get that when I see J-rad and they'll do these ambient transitions, you know, much like the dead used to do. Yeah.

Denko wraps up songs, you're not like, what's next? But I do get that when I see J-rad and they'll do these ambient transitions, you know, much like the dead used to do. Yeah. And you're, I'm like, Oh, they're going to start terrapin or maybe they don't, maybe they go somewhere else completely different. Yeah. And, and I love having that. Yeah. That's one of the things that keeps it so interesting. And that's why the shows never get old because they keep you on your toes. It's my favorite part, but I'm like that even at Crazy Fingers. Same. I'm like, and I listen. They're awesome though. They are awesome. But I'm one of those even when I first started where I listen at the end of the song to hear what they're going into. Because they do tell you. And so I can usually name it even before he does. And I'm always telling Nathan when I'm with them for Crazy Fingers and he'll be like, how did you know that? But I focus so much on that. I think that's one of the best parts is what are they going into next? I love that. I think you just touched on a good point. So they're playing with the tempo and I think it's cool. And I think Bob Weir reserves the ultimate right to revisit this music because it's his piece of pivotal piece of it all. But I'm not into that tempo play. And that's it. It just is what it is. That's something I don't mean to sound like a dick. I'm not shitting on them. I think it's awesome that Weir is still alive, still doing this. He's playing with the music. He's revisiting it. I'd rather listen to Billy Strings. Yeah, there's an authenticity to about that music to Billy because it's being created now and it is new. That feeling that you got watching Jerry do his thing. He just, yep, you're nailing it.

Yeah, there's an authenticity to about that music to Billy because it's being created now and it is new. That feeling that you got watching Jerry do his thing. He just, yep, you're nailing it. That nostalgic kind of feeling. You're tapping into that by watching Billy do it for the first time. Yes, you just nailed it. I think that Billy gives him the feeling he used to have going to see the dead. The original dead. Massive compliment to Billy and his musicianship and what he's doing. He's I find him completely amazing. I get goosebumps thinking about it because it's just so good. It's so agreeable, right? It just fits. I haven't seen him yet, but he's on my list. He'll be in St. Augustine. What is it? April 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, 3rd, 4th, and 5th, but then he's back. He's going to Tampa April 9th. We're still on the fence to make a road trip over. Maybe I have a good buddy who's a fellow musician also that lives out there in Tampa. So funny story. We went up to we flew up to Penn State University last summer to see Billy for August 2nd and August 3rd, and we're hanging out on the PSU campus at the Starbucks. It's raining, so we hopped in to get and there's Billy. No way. Yeah. So I see Billy and I start yelling to her. I go full blown fucking fanboy mode. I have no cool about me, right? And I'm like, call her. She's like, I'm like, just hurry. And then we see him and he's the nicest, kindest, so humble, so such good energy guy. You know, you just meet someone that's just like this guy's energy is on this right. Definitely. But I'm in full blown fanboy mode. I'm still embarrassed by it. Oh, you were fine. You were fine, but no, he's what you would have hoped he would be. No, that's what he's into here. So the word live Billy strings, the way

I'm still embarrassed by it. Oh, you were fine. You were fine, but no, he's what you would have hoped he would be. No, that's what he's into here. So the word live Billy strings, the way he is is how he was at that show. So I do see the difference. Yeah. As are you, but I'm a little kid again. You are, but we've never seen J-rad. Oh, if they come around. Oh, we're going. Yeah. I really want to see them, but they did come down to Meisner years ago, but I don't think they've been here since like when you guys were in high school. I think they were Meisner. You know what I do actually. I don't know. You've heard of nodes.net, right? Yeah, of course. Okay. So I have a nugs.net subscription. Yes. So I, I, okay. So I watch all these guys. I've seen goose watch Billy J-rad. There's some really good bands actually out there. Yeah, definitely. Even so there's some local bands that we kind of run in similar scene as like they, so there's one band local called Guavatron. It's really cool. I don't know if you guys ever seen Guavatron. For a while we were doing this thing. It's like a, like a local like jam night at a warehouse called the arts warehouse in West Palm beach. And so, you know, some of our guys went up and I was fortunate to sit in and play with the kids and then there's another band that's from South Florida called Tand and Tand had, there's another band that was there. They're not, they kind of evolved into 10 kind of called the heavy pets. I don't know. They're another like local to South Florida. Yeah, the heavy pets in particular had a keyword player. His name is Jim worst. He still plays around here and he is a monster in the keys. Really one of the most tasteful kind of lead lines that you can hear around town. I see them in a

His name is Jim worst. He still plays around here and he is a monster in the keys. Really one of the most tasteful kind of lead lines that you can hear around town. I see them in a couple of different places. But yeah, those are some bands that kind of grew out of down here and I've really spread their wings and done well from. And they're jam bands. They're jam bands and you can find Tand, you can find Guavatron on nugs. Okay. Okay. Now we'll have to check those out. Check them out for sure. Real quick as a keyboardist, have you listened to the different eras of the dead with the different keyboardists? So when you said 86 was your first show, I was thinking, okay, these are Brent years. Brent. Yeah, definitely. So you have opinion. Have you listened to Pig Pen Jears and Donna and I like the Donna stuff. I know she divides opinion, but especially the beat it on down the line with Donna. Yeah. Harmonies are just like that's if I'm driving around and I just like I love it. Yeah. And Keith, you know, we'll have to do some nights. So what we've done is I can plug my cassette player into this. Sure. And we will sit in here. We'll have some drinks and just chill and listen to some bootleg. Oh, it'd be amazing. And then they talk about the show. Yeah, I would love to do that. Yeah, for sure. Get some good conversation on that. Yeah, I could do a whole episode on that. But what's your opinion on have you listened to Keith and Pig Pen and Brent? Sure. I like I like the key stuff because it's simple and he doesn't like. Brent is another lead player. Yeah, he can be which I really like that sometimes I'm in the mood for it though. Sometimes I'm not. I think the Keith stuff is digestible always. And I really like the Hornsby stuff when

Yeah, he can be which I really like that sometimes I'm in the mood for it though. Sometimes I'm not. I think the Keith stuff is digestible always. And I really like the Hornsby stuff when he would say because he was just incredible. Yeah, incredible. Of course. I had a special show actually shortly after Brent died. They you know, people are like, are they going to or is it over? And it's like, it's not over. And so their first show after that summer was in Philadelphia. It's at the Philly spectrum. I got tickets and went down. And it was Bruce with Vince Wellness. Oh, really? Wow. Unbelievable to have both of them playing at the same time. I don't know if it was the first show or not. I think it was, but they hear both of them and they open the second set with a scarlet fire. And the whole place was moving. It was almost like, oh, shit. It was we're going to handle this. Yeah, I saw them both right after Brent died, but I can't remember what venue I it was on the West Coast. I don't know if it was odds in or if it was Cal Expo or Shoreline or Oakland, but I also saw both of them together because they had big shoes to fill. So they brought two of them in to kind of help with the transition. So a loud personality for the musical. I'm sure he was, you know, as an individual, too. But from a musical perspective, he definitely has a big footprint. It was a huge loss for us heads during that time. That was our keyboardist and it was like a huge transition. So it was terrible. It was. But each of them and then Pigpen has his own pig. Yeah, I've heard the pig stuff. Okay. Yeah. I really love when he does like his really good vocalist, too. Yes. You know, as good as he is as a keyboard player and an organist, maybe he doesn't get the credit. Maybe he does.

Okay. Yeah. I really love when he does like his really good vocalist, too. Yes. You know, as good as he is as a keyboard player and an organist, maybe he doesn't get the credit. Maybe he does. You guys are more, you know, you were there, not there. Yeah. Yeah. More of the part of the community at the time. Right. And I love when he does like on Good Loving. He's like, turn on your love light. That kind of stuff. Yeah. And like, you just don't get that. And I heard Bobby like try and do it. Yeah. No. And it's like, you're not going to get now. They call them pig rants. Pig rants. I've never heard that. So one of the best pig rants is from Princeton, Dylan Jim, Princeton, New Jersey, like 1971. Oh, sure. And it's like a half an hour rant. It's a Good Loving. It's crazy. It's because he was, you know, he's sharing his tortured soul. And if Bobby can't replicate that, that's coming from like his demons. Yeah. I'd like to hear that. I'd like to hear that one for sure. You'll have to send that to him. All right. So bringing us back. That was our discussion. I do have more questions. I'm sorry. About the Den? No, no, no. One question. I'll throw it out there. You don't have to answer now, but I am curious because I think I love the keyboard. I love Brent. I love Keith. I love Greg Allman, Elton John, right? Billy Joel and Cimente. I think that's how you say it. Cimente. Cimente. So my question is, how do you make the leap from playing recitals in sixth grade on a classical piano to getting into rock, being a rock musician, playing keyboards and organs and stuff like that? I've always, I would ask these guys the same question. Yeah, I know. Sure. The truth of the matter is that I never wanted to play classical. Really?

and stuff like that? I've always, I would ask these guys the same question. Yeah, I know. Sure. The truth of the matter is that I never wanted to play classical. Really? It was just like kind of the necessary evil to kind of, you know, cut your teeth and, and get the technique down. And so I remember Billy Joel song scenes from an Italian restaurant, you know, long, beautiful song. Piano solo. And my parents, again, bless them. When I was trying to learn that part, I mean, two weeks straight, every day I come home from school, I take my phone out, I put it next to me. I hit record. Oh, fuck. Stop. Restart rerecord. And just for hours every day to get that, that lick. And it was like I knew that I wanted to play more along that style of music. And then to your question about like, okay, then how do you get because that's not it's rock, but it's not the same type of rock that I just, you know, I liked Pink Floyd. I like the Allman Brothers, you know, and it I never paid that much attention even to the keys in rock music, which maybe sounds kind of crazy. I was always because part of me still had that guitar hero kid inside of me. And I was just dialed into the guitar, even though I was, you know, playing my own. And I was playing more like, you know, popular stuff, whatever, like in for the band, like the Stone Keys band, you know, we play a variety of stuff, played mayor tunes or whatnot, you know, like things that sorority girls and people in college wanted to hear. So yeah, we weren't like, even though we could jam, we weren't like a jam band by any means. Um, I think that exposure to the dead and then like then more to the Allman Brothers too, starting to listen like, all right, and Little Feet, my, my

like a jam band by any means. Um, I think that exposure to the dead and then like then more to the Allman Brothers too, starting to listen like, all right, and Little Feet, my, my buddy's dad, Bobby's dad turned me on to Little Feet. He's like, he used to tell me, you gotta play a Dixie Chicken. You can't wait. I love that song. I saw them open for the dead. Really? Yes. Yeah. I bet that was an incredible show. Remember when that was, it was 80. It was, it was either 87 or 88. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I saw Little Feet play at this little theater in Fort Lauderdale, the Parker, and it must've been like, you know, two years ago. And I was stunned. I, in these guys are older now, they get up on stage and I'm looking at them like, you know, how's it going to be? And I sat there, I was fortunate because I was in the back right next to the soundboard and everyone else was sitting, but I was in the very last row. So I stood the whole time and I'm telling you, it's been a long time since I've seen a show where I literally was like the whole time. Yeah. I couldn't believe it. And they're amazing. They're a player. I know I made the joke about Marco earlier having forearms. This guy probably had eight arms. Yeah. The things that he was doing. Yeah. So they're awesome. They're awesome. But that type of exposure thing, thing like, all right, well, you know, I want to play music that and, you know, I always kind of like to improvise, but it was that exposure to the extended jams that you get from the dad, the dad in particular too. And just hearing that and being like, I want to try and do that. And then the ruminators, when I played with them, we, I mean, we were for all intents and purposes, a garage band that would play out periodically.

being like, I want to try and do that. And then the ruminators, when I played with them, we, I mean, we were for all intents and purposes, a garage band that would play out periodically. I think I probably played like two, maybe three gigs with them. One of them was a wedding, one story, but we would play and they were so good and so intentional about saying like, all right, we're in this song. It's solo time and each person in the band, they pass it around. Here you go. But it wasn't like, all right, take a little solo and go. It was like, however much time you need to build and execute your idea. Here's cool. Here's the floor. That is awesome. Because we weren't playing for other people, you know, we were just playing for ourselves mostly. And like I said, they had a good setup. We could record everything. And then I would go back and I would listen and I was like, Oh, wow, that was a cool idea that I did. Or I would have not done that this time. And then now at this point, I had, I got myself a Yamaha, it's called a CP 88 keyboard. It's nice. Weighted keys feels like a real grand piano. And it had other sounds on it too, like the electric keyboard stuff that like Stevie Wonder would play. And then it's got the claves and then it had an organ tone. And so I'd start to experiment. I'm like, all right, well, my organ tone is not right. Well, I need to get an expression pedal so I can toggle the Hammond on and off or the Leslie on and off. So I'm, I'm experimenting with these different sounds. And thank God, you know, I'd say they had the patience to let me do that, but it's not even about patience because that's just the style of music. And that's where they came from. So they would have been doing that even if I was there or not. Yeah. And I think

but it's not even about patience because that's just the style of music. And that's where they came from. So they would have been doing that even if I was there or not. Yeah. And I think that they really liked having me as like the young gun. So for sure. Yeah. Yeah. There's a question. I really loved playing with them. They have a new guy that's playing keys with them now because it's just too much for me to keep up with the multiple bands. But I mean, I love those guys and they're all super, super talented. Rich is like 70 and he's out there still ripping it. Yeah. So, you know, I think that that, but that to answer your question, them giving me the floor to do that. And now I go play with 59 shop and it's much more, they don't give you that much of a window. We don't give each other quite that much of a window. Yeah. So I have to be a little bit more concise and sometimes louder because we also play a little more upbeat and like the other dynamically, your meetings are way down. Yeah. And then build up to our all in together. So it's different. Yeah. The amount of time that we have, but that, that was where I got the inspiration for it. Quick side note. Check out, I think it's 1990 or 91 Buffalo show. Jerry and Brent go back and forth. Oh, I'd love to see. It's really cool. It's on YouTube. Look up like Grateful Dead Buffalo. And I think it's 90, 1990 or something. Okay. My favorite is watching them look at each other. I need the pig pen 71. Yeah. How do you know when you're doing that? Individual each member. And I've always wondered this even with the dead. So if everyone's doing their thing, how does the band know when that person is done and it's time to move on to the next transition? I, because it's always so seamless and I'm like, how did they

dead. So if everyone's doing their thing, how does the band know when that person is done and it's time to move on to the next transition? I, because it's always so seamless and I'm like, how did they all know? Yeah. I think most of the time it's like a series of orchestrated, like, okay. Okay. So with, with the ruminators, I was telling you guys, we played this wedding and the bride really wanted in memory of Elizabeth Reed. That was what she wanted. And then, you know, hold the mic a little bit closer. Yeah. Do you ever play it before? No. So we, we put some time in on that one to, to make sure that we got, we got it dialed in. And then another one that they wanted was, um, Judy blue eyes, like, yeah, yeah. Like the, yeah. Yes. That one took a lot of time to dial in. And actually I didn't do as much on that one. They had some extra practices dialing the harmonies for that one. I don't really sing for that. Um, but, but anyways, in Elizabeth Reed, there's like the, and like, there's a series of like cues musically that tell you like, Oh, this solo is over where it's about to start. And then that'll help us, you know, they're like, there's, there's one part distinctly where the guitar solo, like I'm like, Oh, that was his closing lick. I'm up now. Okay. So sometimes that's baked in. Um, and then even with 59 shop, like we, we rehearsed these things. So you like, we'll tell each other in advance, like this is going to, like, we're going to make this transition, be ready for it. And then, you know, we're all kind of looking around, listening. And sometimes you get, you know, three out of five people that are on it. But as long as you've got bass drums and like one other rhythm instrument, normally like everyone else would be like, Oh,

sometimes you get, you know, three out of five people that are on it. But as long as you've got bass drums and like one other rhythm instrument, normally like everyone else would be like, Oh, shit. Yeah. That was the cue. Like we're there. I mean, we're pretty tight. Like we definitely put the practice in to rehearse, but yeah, especially with jam bands, a lot of it seems, um, just kind of like it's being done on a whim or on the fly, but the hours that these people put in and they just know, yeah. And the chemistry and the chemistry, or they do the signal, like I'm done, you know, and on this, on the stage of like, uh, like goose, for example, these guys have talkback mics. So they'll have their vocal mic. They'll have another mic over here and they come over and they're like, we're going to the B part and we can't hear that, but they can all hear that in their own ears. So there's all of them have that. I like, I know Billy strings has that. He has a mic behind them. That's a talkback mic. I think that when we saw bass sector, like last month, he was talking to his crew in one of those. He kept picking up a mic and I'm like, how come we can't hear him? It's very high technology. Yeah. So yeah, that was okay. So you're, you're, we're, you're playing with the ruminators and you're still working for Bobby's dad. Yeah. And then how long did you continue on those paths? Um, so the ruminators, I, even, even while I was still playing with 59 shop, I kept playing with them for some time. Um, and then just a co like a combination of, of life. And you know, I did. So I took this time off and I was, uh, you know, my little gap year. Oh, that's right. You're taking the time off. That's right. Right. So, so I had done that and I was playing

did. So I took this time off and I was, uh, you know, my little gap year. Oh, that's right. You're taking the time off. That's right. Right. So, so I had done that and I was playing music. I traveled, actually did a couple of weeks in Europe with some of my buddies from college. Um, and then when I got back, I had it all set. So I got back from Europe on July 29th or 30th. And I started at my new job, which was in tech sales. I really wanted to get into tech with a company called Citrix, their global company where they're based on for a lot of your and it, aren't you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No Citrix. Okay. Yeah. So I started with them August 1st. So I like had it all planned out. Yeah. And then August 12th, you know, I met a girl and you know, we, we really hit it off, ended up dating for like two and a half years almost. Wow. But all of these things I'm moving. I was with my parents when I first got back from Europe and like all these things were going on at the same time. Yeah. So I was like, all right, something's gotta gotta give. Um, and unfortunately it was the ruminators at that point. And then I, even still after that, I got together and I played with the wedding for them, which was not until like December of 22. So like the timelines, um, they just all, a lot of things kind of converged at once. And that's why I stopped playing with them and focused more, which is 59 shop. So 59 shop was your next band after the ruminators. That was the one that I met at third and third where they call me. Okay. And I had the audition and those are the guys that I've been playing with sense. And then they're all, they're all so talented. Um, and I, I got a special shout out. Steve, our drummer, Steve is an amazing drummer. He's an incredible bass player.

been playing with sense. And then they're all, they're all so talented. Um, and I, I got a special shout out. Steve, our drummer, Steve is an amazing drummer. He's an incredible bass player. He's a great songwriter. Um, and he plays bass in more bands than he plays drums in actually. 59 shop is the only band that he plays drums in. Um, and so there's, we have like another band offshoot that is a wedding band. We just played our first wedding. Um, it was at the start of, of a March, March 1st. And, uh, we're learning like earth, wind and fire. Yeah. Yeah. Journey. Yes. Like, so have you guys known it was getting married? Okay. It's a wedding band. What's the name of the wedding band? Yeah. That band is called the pleasures. The pleasures call for a good time. I love it. That's great. And so is that the same song? No, so it's, it's Steve, our drummer is playing the bass and then it's a couple. So Steve teaches at school of rock. Oh yeah. Okay. He teaches every instrument. So like, if anyone's listening to this, it is a kid that needs lessons. Go see Steve at school of rock. Okay. Um, I wish sometimes that I could be like 12 lessons from Steve. Yes. He just loves it. He's one of those guys. He's just, yeah, he, he bleeds it through and through. Um, but so yeah, so the wedding band and then there's another band that Steve and I play in it's, this is really Steve and his other friend or our mutual friend Garrett's brainchild. And it's called Ras W R a S S E, which is the type of fish like a fish. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Okay. And that is a tropical punk band, which is very interesting. Very interesting. Okay. You should check them out too. That's called Rasband Steve and Garrett just released a song called nowhere to go, which is

which is very interesting. Very interesting. Okay. You should check them out too. That's called Rasband Steve and Garrett just released a song called nowhere to go, which is actually about, um, like the government and how they're trying to get rid of Florida's like natural wildlife and things like that. So it's, it's kind of like a punk rebel song, but also very well written and orchestrated. And these guys are just they're wizards. So yeah, all their stuff up on like Apple music, Spotify. Yeah. So check that out. Okay. And we'll link everything in the description. Yeah. We'll link everything. Yeah, for sure. So that's so cool. So wait, you're in three bands right now. Some of them, I just show up and play, uh, which is, is good, but 59 shop is the main one. That's the baby. And you know, we were talking before we got started, you know, maybe it seems like we took a little bit of hiatus from playing, playing gigs. Um, and we did actually played New Year's Eve and then we didn't play until, uh, start of March for actually Bobby, a different Bobby, which I gotta talk about him. And I will get to him in a minute because he's another amazing, uh, beautiful human too, uh, and great musician, but it was his birthday. So we played a banana boat up here in Boynton. And then we've got another show coming up on the 19th of April at Guanabanas and Jupiter, uh, which is pretty cool venue if you guys haven't been. Um, but we've been focusing more on writing original music and this is of the bands. Well, I guess rass is originals, but I'm not involved in the writing process. That's Garrett does most of the work. Um, but with 59 shop, that's where we've been really collaborating and trying to come up with something because the one thing that makes the

process. That's Garrett does most of the work. Um, but with 59 shop, that's where we've been really collaborating and trying to come up with something because the one thing that makes the band special and unique is that every person comes from a very different musical background, except like maybe me and Bobby, Bobby's ahead also. So him and I kind of have to see the guitarist with the dead shirt on in some of those videos. Yeah. Okay. That would be him. And then you see our other guitar player. Yeah. His name is, uh, well, we call him slick Rick. I think we'll call him, we'll go by slick Rick and he's just one of the best guitar players I've ever had the pleasure of playing with, but he comes from more of a hat, like a heavier or like a metal background. Okay. And sometimes you can hear that come through in the playing. But then you've got Steve who's kind of this jack of all trades, Swiss army knife musically. And then my friend Mitchell, who's one of my best friends and he's a really good bass player, but he really is a base head. So yeah, him and I used to go to electronic shows and stuff together too. So we have that in common as well. And that's another thing Nate and I share. Okay. Do you want to go? I was going to say, do you all participate in songwriting? So the songwriting process, it is dynamic, I think is probably the best way to say it. Um, you will at times have all five of us just kind of stumble on a groove and be like, whoa, that has to be something. And then, you know, maybe we'll do it on lyrics or something like that. But what we found is it works best with like two or three, or even one person. When you have all five, it's like too many cooks in the kitchen type situation. So when we came back at the start of the

best with like two or three, or even one person. When you have all five, it's like too many cooks in the kitchen type situation. So when we came back at the start of the year, like everyone makes resolutions in their own lives, made resolutions as a band. All right. Like what is our goal? Let's really commit to getting back to songwriting. And one of the ways that we did that was we said, if one person has an idea for a song, they're allowed to come in and rather than it be like this whole super collaborative thing, be like, Hey, this is my idea. You do this, you do that, you do this. Obviously each musician is talented. And like, I mean, if I tell Steve, like, Hey, I can't tell him, I want you to do exactly what I want on the drums. I'd be like, Hey, I want a disco beat and he'll take his liberty with that. Right. Yeah. Um, so, but really more like one person or two people are kind of like the musical director on the song. And I think most of it is coming from Bobby. Um, and then a portion of it comes from me. And then Steve is a big influence too. And then Rick being the lead guitar player, you know, he, he has his own influence on the music as well. And he comes up with cool different like lines and things like that that we wouldn't have thought of otherwise. And then sometimes we'll tell him, we're like, Rick, this part go. Yeah. And that's how we're. Okay. That makes sense. Sorry. Go ahead. You were gonna ask. Well, no, what's interesting is when Kaya was in a band, I used to go there and film and record for them. And it was very much the same type of process you're describing where they had a guy, his name's Jamie. Jamie's a phenomenal local musician down here as well. And he was their musical director. And he'd be like, Nick,

type of process you're describing where they had a guy, his name's Jamie. Jamie's a phenomenal local musician down here as well. And he was their musical director. And he'd be like, Nick, that guitar riff, you do that Adam on the drums. You do this. I think it was Emily, you, your rhythm, you do this. And, and they kind of collaborated like that. It was cool. What you're describing kind of delegating a little bit. Yeah. Like offers a little bit of control, maybe in the chaos of songwriting. Yeah. You know, it can be chaotic. Yeah. Where I struggle the most is writing lyrics too. So sometimes I'll be like, Hey, you'll Bobby, I need words for this. Yeah. Like this one is just not like, I don't know. A songwriting has always been, or the lyric writing has always been hard for me, but more and more music minded. Maybe that comes from the jam side of things. Jam bands with the exception of the dead, I'd say, are pretty notorious for having like shitty lyrics, I think. Well, not everybody had Robert Hunter. Yeah. Robert Hunter and, and, um, not just Hunter. Yeah. John Perry Barlow. So that, that makes a huge difference. And they, and they also covered a lot of Bob Dylan. Yeah. One of the best lyricists ever. Why are youngest sons named after him? By the way, my question, um, was 15, 59 shop. I was checking out your videos. Looks like you guys have a cool place to play. Oh, the shop, um, and I was going to ask if you, what's your, what you're doing in terms of lyrics, but is that where you guys hang out and yeah, man. So the shop is like, I love the guys. I love the band. I would be lying if I didn't say that the shop itself wasn't like one of the coolest. Really cool. Yeah. Yeah. I want to go. Where's the located? It's

like, I love the guys. I love the band. I would be lying if I didn't say that the shop itself wasn't like one of the coolest. Really cool. Yeah. Yeah. I want to go. Where's the located? It's important by the train tracks off. And basically they got it before I even, you know, was a part of the band. So they had it and, um, for all intents and purposes, it's like a big, like, you know, air conditioned storage unit, but this complex at the end, like some people run like small little businesses, like auto detailing things out of them. So they're nice. It's not like you're in like a little, you know, small, like right storage container or anything like that. But we've got couches, you know, we've got the whole thing laid out. We got a really nice, we recently upgraded all of our gear so that it's more like this. We can record everything that we play like the ruminators had. So we listened to it back. Some of our recordings that you'll see online are from that in the back. There's like a little patio, you know, it's, it's, it's a really, really cool spot. And aside from being where we'll go and we'll practice, uh, sometimes more constructively than others, like last night, you know, being a group of musicians, we all have other musical friends. So I want to say there's probably like 10, 12 people over there just drinking beers and just like, you know, I'm a big communal jam. Like, you know, people swap around on instruments and like, you know, keys, keys are my main thing, but I can play a little bit of guitar and I wouldn't play it at a show. Um, but, and I could place enough bass to, to get by too. So we'll swap around and we just, it's, it's how often are you going there and doing that? What'd you say? Practice it like practice or write every

I could place enough bass to, to get by too. So we'll swap around and we just, it's, it's how often are you going there and doing that? What'd you say? Practice it like practice or write every Wednesday. That's been like our day for probably, you know, performing. It sounds like you'll perform, but then you guys take breaks too. For a while we weren't really taking breaks. It's just been a little slower now. I mean, everyone in the band has their job too. So it's like very much, this is the musical outlet that, you know, we all, we all need. Yes. It's excellent that you have that 100%. Like for us, I think when we go see live music for us, that's our outlet, but you have such a passion for music. It's, it's, I was just going to ask you, like, how do you balance that passion for music and then working your tech job, which I assume you enjoy that as well. I love it. So yeah, no, you know, I feel in general, just very blessed and so grateful for, for all the opportunities that I've had and for the struggles too. But for now that I have the chance to have a group of musical friends and a band that we all care about each other, we all respect each other, you know, and, and we're all, we're all just kind. We really love each other. We're friends too. It's not like, that's like with other bands where it's like, all right, we're in, we're out, you know, and that's, you want to have fun. Of course. We're all, we're all entertainers, we're performers. Yeah. And then on the flip side, in my professional life, I'm working at, it's a, it's a tech startup and they know they're doing, we're, we collectively are doing super well, but the company has raised over $300 million now. Wow. We're partnering with the heat with the Panthers, with Chicago

startup and they know they're doing, we're, we collectively are doing super well, but the company has raised over $300 million now. Wow. We're partnering with the heat with the Panthers, with Chicago Bulls. And I was in sales for a while for about a year and a half. And then I got promoted to being manager. So I have a team now and nice. I love, I love that because every day it's not about me anymore. Like it was when I was a rep, I'm just working to get other people on the team better and help them, you know, achieve their goals. And what do you guys do? What is the idea? So the idea is like a one-stop shop, all in one platform small business needs for the back office. So main product is we have automated bookkeeping and accounting. And then we also have our corporate card, which is, I'll plug finally real quick. Yeah. It's software as a service. Yes. We're a SaaS company. But so like the finally card. Oh, you actually have a card. Yeah. But yeah, it's so we lend money to small businesses to help them grow. And then there's some nifty software on the back. Yeah, cool. Yeah. Yeah. So software in the back that helps to like help the manager expenses, pay less in taxes to save a lot of time. So that's where we're partnering with the heat with Panthers. And then there's other products coming down the pipeline to payroll, global hiring. So it's like really one-stop shop. It's not like we're relying on one product. So the company's called finally. Yeah. Finally, one place. Okay. I like that. Are you allowed to say where you're hosted? Are you an AWS Azure or GCP? Well, we do the work through QuickBooks. The work is actually done through QuickBooks. So it's just an API integration because into our platform where

hosted? Are you an AWS Azure or GCP? Well, we do the work through QuickBooks. The work is actually done through QuickBooks. So it's just an API integration because into our platform where they're actually hosting our data. I don't know. Yeah. Actually, I do know it's on Amazon service. Yeah. So AWS. Okay. Yeah. Because I had a prospect one time. I'm not going to work with you guys unless my data is being held domestically. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So finally, I like that. Yeah. That's the name of finally. Okay. That is a great name. So how long have you been with finally? I've been with finally since June of 2023. Okay. So almost two years. Yeah. I guess going on two years now. So did you go from Citrix to finally? So the Citrix story is kind of an interesting one too. So I started there August 1st, 2022. September 30th, they announced that they were being delisted from the public market and had been acquired by a private equity firm. And I was just started as CR in sales development, booking meetings for the closers. And I knew that I didn't want to do that very long. So I want to actually sell. I don't want to get a point, but that was the, that was what you had to do to get in. It was like the entry level. Yeah. And so everyone was kind of freaking out like, Oh my God, we got acquired. Where are we all going to get laid off? Nobody knows. There's so much uncertainty. So some people started leaving that were territory managers. And actually at one point we had like, you know, team meeting where they were like, all right, all the SDRs, like you guys go like polish your resumes because like it's not looking good. And people were freaking out freaking out. And I, me being driven, like, you know, when I think,

like polish your resumes because like it's not looking good. And people were freaking out freaking out. And I, me being driven, like, you know, when I think, okay, this is something I want to do. I came up with a little plan I called operation stay on the ship. And I was like, all right, this is how I'm going to figure out a way to not get laid off. And I networked my ass off. I found, I sought out mentors from people that probably had no business even talking to me. Like one of the VPs, I was like, Hey, like, Lindsay, can you help me? And, and a guy named Lee too. And another one of my bosses there, he saw that I was working hard and they put me into a closing role. And I had no experience. I didn't even know what a net scaler was. And, and I worked and I was the first person in the office and the last one leave. And I ended up not getting laid off. Everyone, 34 other people on the team, including the director got all laid off. They did move me to a different product though, which was, So did you move from like Citrix to Netskiller then? No, to Sharefile. Sharefile. Sharefile is like DocuSign meets Dropbox. It's like, File collaboration and sharing an electronic signature, mostly for like CPA firms and attorneys. But I mean, I think that shows your hard work and determination. And in some ways that positive intention, delusion, whatever talking to people you think, who might even talk to this person, but you went to them as a mentor, just like, why not? I think it shows that it pays off. I had nothing to lose. You had nothing to lose. Yeah. And I had one mentor named Mike and Mike spent a lot of time with me. And here's a funny story about Mike on every sales call that we're on. It didn't matter who the prospect was. He would

Yeah. And I had one mentor named Mike and Mike spent a lot of time with me. And here's a funny story about Mike on every sales call that we're on. It didn't matter who the prospect was. He would always talk about barbecue and it'd take 10 minutes at the start of the call talking about barbecue. Wait, what are you doing this weekend? They're like, I don't know. Well, I'm going to cook up a whole mess of barbecue and I'd be like slacking him. I'm like, yo, Mike, can we get to the pitch, man? And afterwards, one time he goes, Hey, I'm like, why do you always talk about barbecue? And he says, because everyone loves barbecue. Yeah. He's teaching me, slow it down, you know, make the connection. Anyways. So, okay, wait, have you, do you watch the office? Yes. So do you know what you just referenced? Is that Chili's episode? Everyone loves Chili's. Where Michael talks to the guy from Lackawanna school district about everything other than why they're there. And then it works it in at the end and he gets the deal. And Jan is going crazy. Like what are you doing? And they're just talking about ribs and singing baby back ribs. And that's, that's it. And I also love Chili's too, by the way. I wish there was one in focus still. The reality is no one at work wants to talk about work, especially with a salesperson. So I teach you too. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's who we were selling to. The last thing I want to talk about is it. Yeah. You know, I'll talk music, barbecue. I don't know about Chili's. No, no, but they were in and Chili's and they were doing, he was doing everything except selling. Yes. And it worked. You know, the interesting thing about Citrix, I and you, we know various casualties from that whole. Yeah. I believe it. Citrix transit. It's still going on.

selling. Yes. And it worked. You know, the interesting thing about Citrix, I and you, we know various casualties from that whole. Yeah. I believe it. Citrix transit. It's still going on. It still is going on. They're very defunct right now. Yes. Yeah. And so anyways, I get moved over to this other product, ShareFile. And I was fighting my ass off. All right. I want to be in a closing role, closing role. And I finally get there. Okay. Well, you're moving to ShareFile. Okay, great. What is my territory going to be? Like, ah, well, you're going to be a renewals sales rep. And I was like, renewals, I was crushed. I was like, oh, revenue retention. Like, God, that's the worst. But the benefit was it was a brand new team that never existed at ShareFile. No numbers. No, no numbers. And I got it. I got to be a part of basically founding this team, almost like a startup because ShareFile was a startup within the broader cloud software group. And then so I was within a startup team within a startup org within a very old, mature company. So it was really a unique opportunity to kind of cut my teeth and help build some of those systems and processes. And now I actually applied for a role as a closing role, which they told me, basically, you're qualified. You think you would do great. We'd love to have you. You'd be an amazing culture fit. But you just got here five months ago. So get in line. Yeah. And like, one thing I learned about myself is and then, you know, even through, you know, some of the struggles I mentioned before is that the thing that gives me anxiety is not feeling like I am in control of my situation, that feeling of being in limbo. And that whole situation was just drenched in that feeling. And so I was all

the thing that gives me anxiety is not feeling like I am in control of my situation, that feeling of being in limbo. And that whole situation was just drenched in that feeling. And so I was all right. Well, you know, at the meantime, I was applying to other places like, all right, you know, let me see what's going on. Yeah. And that was where I encountered finally, the CEO messaged me on LinkedIn and I set up a call while I was driving home from Citrix that day. And at the time, they had just moved to in Boker just right here. There's that new El Camino they put in. Yeah. That big black building right there is with offices. Oh, okay. And when I first got there, you know, I met the CEO, he's working on a card table. There were monitors all over the ground. And he's like, you know, do you want to be a part of building something? And I said, absolutely, I do. And then I met one of the other co-founders, his name is Edwin. He's a great guy, mentor to me, boss, but and a friend as well, couldn't ask for a better person to work for. And I met him, I said, Did you write the script? He goes, I wrote the script. And I said, Okay, I'll see you guys. And since then, just the opportunity to work directly with the co-founders using some of the things that I learned from the share file experience, building out teams, helping coach other people train them. I mean, even before I got moved into a management position, I was already, you know, helping mentor and coach and teach and like, and there's another gentleman, Albert, too, who is one of the, he was the original salesperson. He's been selling for 28 years. He reminds me that, you know, from time to time, he's also just an amazing dude, so humble, does everything to help other people, but learning from them,

He's been selling for 28 years. He reminds me that, you know, from time to time, he's also just an amazing dude, so humble, does everything to help other people, but learning from them, and then taking the opportunity that they've given me just to help others. And oh, and what I was going to say about Mike before I got derailed on the barbecue thing was what he always told me was, I was like, Mike, what you know, what should I do to pay you back? And he goes, just pay it forward. Just pay it forward. And so, you know, as I'm helping these, these younger reps who are getting hired, like, well, thank you so much. Pay it for it. Pay it for it. It's such an excellent way for the older generations, they pass down to you. And now you're passing down to Gen Z, the younger generation. And it's so encouraging because so many times I hear from Gen Z's and younger millennials, how disgruntled they are with boomers or with older Gen X and that boomers especially come across as selfish and self-centered disconnected from what the younger generations, their outlook on life. So to hear that, at least in your company, there's this beautiful connection across the generations. It's amazing. That's awesome. And it's fortunate too that we're, you know, we've had the success that we've had so far. Of course, it's a startup, like, something could go wrong tomorrow. Yeah. Like, so, you know, that's the other thing. Like, I'm always, I never take it for granted. And every day is a blessing that I have. But we're always, we're hiring right now where a lot of places are not. So especially like entry level sales, like we need people and the leadership and the management, they invest so much in giving us opportunity to grow and learn. Our, our CRO

places are not. So especially like entry level sales, like we need people and the leadership and the management, they invest so much in giving us opportunity to grow and learn. Our, our CRO is kind of like a LinkedIn famous guy. And he's got, you know, over a hundred thousand followers. Really? Yeah. His name is KD. KD. He's a heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy. He goes by KD. And, um, how, why is he such a big personality? Because, well, he's scaled a couple, it's like four or five businesses to over a hundred million in revenue now in a year from where they weren't doing that before. He has a track record. Yeah. But he's, he, he has this personality too. He always wears this black hat and it's like that, like it's just, that's him. And he's, he's kind of like a sales teaching leadership, like guru. And we were fortunate, very fortunate to get him. And he's invested in our leadership team. And he took, he took us through like a six week AI course and he's got me in another one now. And you know, that's great that I'm learning are things that I would have never got. And I'm reflecting on my previous companies never even had a chance to. Yeah. So what are you learning in, in AI at a sales role? Yeah. So there were a lot of different applications. Most of it was like, how do you use AI as a seller, like researching prospects and things like that. But because we had, you know, 10 or 11 people in this probably, you know, 40 person class, all of us were in leadership. So we were asking more questions like, all right, well, like, how could this be used for leadership applications? And one of the things that, you know, I got an idea from for this was let's create an AI call scoring. Basically one of the hardest things for any

could this be used for leadership applications? And one of the things that, you know, I got an idea from for this was let's create an AI call scoring. Basically one of the hardest things for any sales manager to do, you know, I've got five guys on my team right now. Each call is anywhere from, you know, 20 minutes to an hour, sometimes even longer. And I'm supposed to listen to these calls and prepare feedback. And how do I know where to coach? How do I know where to train? How do I do these things? So I basically you copy and paste the call transcripts. AI goes through and there's a lot of stuff on the back end that you had to write out and define. Okay, this is like what a good bucket question looks like. This is what it looks like to get agreement to actually, you're kind of writing the prompt or the script to drive the AI engine to help score. Exactly. All the call went exactly. It's cool. Yeah. So very cool. It started with just our team and then it got rolled out to other organizations, the card team within the company and actually, yeah, it's so cool. Yeah. She was, we can't say the company name. I don't even remember the name, but she was doing prompt writing. What mind bending stuff it was that she was doing. It was really cool. I'm still connected with the company. I just haven't had time to do it, but writing for AI, it's been, it was, it was very interesting. I will say that. Like scoring the AI model thing. Was that the right question? Yeah. And then creating prompts and all that stuff. So with this company, do they, how do they view work life balance? I'm assuming it must be pretty good because you have time to put towards your music. We definitely work hard, I will say. We work hard. And, but you know, one of the principles

assuming it must be pretty good because you have time to put towards your music. We definitely work hard, I will say. We work hard. And, but you know, one of the principles of KD is, you know, work and life are so intertwined. They both need to be going well. If you'd really be happy. Like if you're not doing well outside of work, that'll affect your performance at work. And if conversely, if you're not doing well in work, that's going to affect your life outside. So they definitely care about us. They, again, they're constantly teaching us. They take us to, there's a guy named Patrick Bette David, who did an event, a big conference up in West Palm called the vault in September. They took our entire company to go. It took us all off the phones for a couple of days. And you know, they want us to grow. They want us to develop. And I think that professional foundation and the confidence that, you know, you get from being successful in a role will help everything else in life. No, that's great that they, that they recognize that because, and I don't know if that's typical of startups. I feel like I've heard it is startups in general. I've worked for startups and you work your ass off. Yeah. We definitely work hard, but it's worth it. And to, it's fun to feel like you're being a part of building something that is, that is, you know, bigger than you could do individually. And yeah, like my dad is an entrepreneur. So I have entrepreneurship aspirations. And I'm sure I, you know, I will, you know, I've had these sparks lately that I used to not get just from some of the things that I've been learning. Right. And so I know my day is coming, you know, when exactly, I don't know, but just the foundation and what they do to help us get there and build

some of the things that I've been learning. Right. And so I know my day is coming, you know, when exactly, I don't know, but just the foundation and what they do to help us get there and build confidence to say, all right. And also we're selling to small business owners. So I'm on the phone with them. I'd learn what they do well, what they do wrong. And, you know, sometimes you're talking to small business owner and you're like, man, I could definitely do what you're doing right now. Yeah. You know, so well, what's, what's interesting about your product, because I did look it up and it's, it is hosted right. Software as a service. If you have the right idea, you're learning enough that if you have the right idea, you could find the right people to develop it. Sure. Find the other people to run it and you go sell it. And it's really that simple. And that's how the world is today. It's pretty, it's pretty wild at school. That's why I'm fortunate to have background in sales and that I very much can thank my dad for, um, sales guru himself. And one of the best speakers that I've ever had a pleasure, uh, you know, even here's your talk and learn from to the preparation. I told you that's serious. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it sounds like you have such a great balance between your music and your work going right now. I do have to ask you, because you are a younger millennial, um, what is the dating scene like for your age, like with dating apps or being out there? What is, how do you view it? Do you view it, um, as challenging because there's dating apps and social media or he's a musician. So he might, might get a different aspect of like, what is your view at your age of being out there? Um, so I, I had been in a relationship for

apps and social media or he's a musician. So he might, might get a different aspect of like, what is your view at your age of being out there? Um, so I, I had been in a relationship for like two and a half years. So I was like not actively in it before that relationship. I was on the dating apps and I only ended up going out with people that I met in person. So I matched with people on dating apps. I would have conversations and they never seem to go anywhere. Um, since, you know, I've been single again, I've gone out on a couple dates from some of the apps. I pretty much only use hinge. Um, but like, I dunno, I've heard good and bad things about some of the other ones, but I dunno, I have a feeling that when I meet the person that is ultimately going to be the person for the rest of my life, like I'll have met them in an actual, like a normal organic way. Not to say anything, like one of my best friends, Zach and his wife, they have a baby, they have another one on the way they met on hinge, they met on Tender. And then, I know, like, I know there's a lot of success stories out there, so I'm not going to knock it. And honestly, like who knows, who knows maybe that I end up with, it will be met on a dating app. I don't know. Yeah. But, um, do you feel when you're out there, um, that women are approach approachable or do you feel that technology has kind of stunted some of the communication between, um, between men and women your age? Um, you know, I'm like a pretty outgoing person, so I feel like I don't often like meet a stranger. You know, it's just like have the confidence to go and actually approach someone. Yeah. And I think people appreciate the old school approach anyways. Um, and there's so many different ways, and I like

confidence to go and actually approach someone. Yeah. And I think people appreciate the old school approach anyways. Um, and there's so many different ways, and I like I'd be on Instagram, we can continue the conversation there. So if we like each other, like, yeah, you know, it doesn't have to be so like, Hey, you know, the scholar, like, what are you doing next Thursday? Right. Right. I don't know. I'm still figuring out my own, my own approach and my own style and being a musician, it doesn't hurt. Definitely. It gives you a good way to meet people. Of the guys in the band, at least two of them have met their girlfriends through music. Yeah. So, would you say advice to younger guys is to just go for it with the old school way and that they might be pleasantly surprised that girls like to just be approached more traditionally as opposed to, you know, just through a DM? I've had success and I've also experienced failure. So I don't know that there's one right way to do it, but, um, I'd say you're limiting yourself if you're only going to stick to one method. So utilize everything that's out there. If you see someone and you think you'd like to go talk to them, you should do it. Yeah. And what would be some advice to younger people that are just getting out of college as far as career, as far as, um, trying to figure out what the twenties aren't easy. I always say that twenties have lots of peaks and valleys and, um, it can be very discouraging and you can feel like you're out in the world and is this it is this life. And I don't know if I even want to do this. What would be some advice you would give? So going back to the philosophical side of things, another thing that I always would say is just be a sponge and make that your

even want to do this. What would be some advice you would give? So going back to the philosophical side of things, another thing that I always would say is just be a sponge and make that your mentality. It doesn't matter what you're doing. Good companies, bad companies, products you love products. You can't stand. There's something there that you can use and then you'll learn from that's going to help you later in your career. Um, even, even opportunities when I was working for companies where I knew I didn't have a future there, there were still things that I was learning. Um, and so that would be my mindset. I mean, first we have to do something like, but you don't have to love what you're doing out of the gate. I mean, I jumped, I jumped around and I think everyone should. I think that is one thing that's different about the job market nowadays is that you're most people don't work for the same company on ecology. We're for them for 30 years, 40 years. Yeah. That's it. Like don't be afraid to take a leap. Don't be afraid to, to, you know, make a change. Not everything is so permanent. Um, it should even in relationships too. Like if, if it's not, if you don't have that feeling, like, all right, I wake up every morning and I just want to run through a brick wall for this company or for that person. Like, I mean, you guys have been together. How long have you been together? 31 years, well together 33 years, married almost 31 years. 31 or 33 wonderful years. Yes. And so you guys must feel that, you know, every day. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would say, you know, on the career front in terms of that, you have to reinvent yourself. Like, you know, I'm 53 years old or 54, right? 53. The world's changed a lot. Yeah. And you've

would say, you know, on the career front in terms of that, you have to reinvent yourself. Like, you know, I'm 53 years old or 54, right? 53. The world's changed a lot. Yeah. And you've got to continue to reinvent yourself. I agree with you. You're spot on via sponge. Pay attention. Keep your eye on the ball. Work hard, play hard, and you don't have to like what you're doing all the time. Right. Now, if you can get there, then that's great. But if you can't, then things like music or hobbies can kind of help you get through when it's, when you're in the, when you're in the peak. Yeah. I think it comes down to storytelling too. You know, every person has their own experiences and they're always going to be good. Like, you know, even earlier, what I talked about with what happened, you know, through, through college, you know, I didn't know how to tell that story. In my career, you know, I had struggles. I worked for a company and knew it wasn't going to be great. I worked for a company. I watched all my friends get laid off. I got, I applied for a promotion and I didn't get it. All these things though, like it's not what bad happened or what could have happened or should have happened. It's what are the lessons I learned? Yeah. What are the things that I did that helped me get through that experience? And as long as you can articulate that, maybe this is just a salesman in me, but that would be my advice. Every job is, every person meet, every experience you have is another, another chapter in that story. And then you just have to be able to put it together. And if you can, you'll be marketable to anyone. Yeah, I totally agree with you. It's a great point. It's good. You're learning that at such a young age too, because

be able to put it together. And if you can, you'll be marketable to anyone. Yeah, I totally agree with you. It's a great point. It's good. You're learning that at such a young age too, because in the corporate world, we call that your talking points, right? What are the talking points for a good situation or a bad situation? But if you can explain the how and the why and the what from each step along the way, it's a great, that's great advice. Yeah, definitely. And I think that, understanding that you can reinvent yourself, even like you said, if you've worked somewhere for a year, it's okay to go to another job. Cause you are right. From our generation, people looked more at longevity. How long have you been at? So you felt like you had to stay there to prove your resume. But I think it's the opposite for your generations. It's been a while though. Like when I, I got into my professional world around the dot right before the dot com, live through the bus and I changed jobs three, four, five times each time a double my salary. Yeah. So you got to just keep doing it. And, and, and your age is when you should do it. It needs to be strategic. I think it needs to be fairly calculated. You don't want to be just like, Oh, this sucks. I'm moving now. This sucks. Three months later, I'm moving. I want to try to be able to tell the story. Why did it suck? Or you almost never want to say it sucked. It's more of, this is just a better fit. Sure. And this was a better fit and a better opportunity, more responsibilities, that kind of thing. You should try and move to when you have some type of positive momentum. Yeah. Also like I had a mentor when I was a share file, even though that was a relatively short stint, I don't know, maybe

You should try and move to when you have some type of positive momentum. Yeah. Also like I had a mentor when I was a share file, even though that was a relatively short stint, I don't know, maybe five, six months. Um, but when I was, when I told him, Hey, yo, I'm going to go work at this startup called finally, he gave me this analogy of like, whenever you're at a company, you're like pulling the drawstring on a, on a bow back. And the second you decide to make a move, if especially if you move to another company, you're releasing all that energy. You've got to start from the beginning. If you're applying within, say you're at a big company that has different organizations and you launch that, well, you might not, it might not go all the way back because your name is still known. Your brand is still known and you still have further to pull back. So there's just another thing to consider too. It's like, don't be afraid to make the jump, but make sure you do it when you've got it pulled back already in some capacity because otherwise you're not going to be able to go as far. It's a great analogy. And is a great analogy. One thing I would say too is, and you've learned it early on is I would avoid the VC, the venture capitalists, because they're all about buying a company like a Citrix, completely liquidating it, layering it with debt, and then they're going to sell it to someone else at some point. And all along the way, there's a bunch of casualties. Well, and you know, one of the things that we thought was going to be the case was that they were going to cut too far and then maybe rehire. But with the Citrix, it was like they cut and then they cut, cut too far and don't rehire. And they cut and like, they still, and, you know,

they were going to cut too far and then maybe rehire. But with the Citrix, it was like they cut and then they cut, cut too far and don't rehire. And they cut and like, they still, and, you know, share file just got acquired by another. Yeah. And it was already being built out to sell. And like a lot of my friends that did end up making the move to share file too, some of them, a handful of them are still there, but most of them got laid off also. So it's just kind of just tough. I mean, yeah, it's tough situation out there. So look for companies too that really believe in their people. Look for, for if you're looking at a CEO or a founder, look for one who's not talking about exit strategy from the beginning. You know, look for somebody who's interested in building and growing and actually has more of a long-term view that requires good people. Yeah, that makes sense. Now, do you have any other questions before I ask? Just one, maybe. It's going back to the music. What we're, what we're saying some of your strongest as you got into, like, you know, we've talked Billy Joel or yeah. All my brothers. Yeah. But then it definitely started with them, Billy Joel and Elton John. And then I also went through like a huge Beatles kick when I was in middle school. And one of the things about the Beatles in particular that I find good for anyone who's is that their songwriting is very particular and they have a lot of interesting chord progressions. It's not like a country tune or a pop tune that you might hear on the radio. That's like, you know, everyone sees those things on Instagram. We're on these four chords and you can play it. Yeah, it is not that. That's not that the Beatles. It's complex, right? It's complex. And, and the

everyone sees those things on Instagram. We're on these four chords and you can play it. Yeah, it is not that. That's not that the Beatles. It's complex, right? It's complex. And, and the progressions, if you, you'd have to be really adept to just sit down and listen and try and pick it out. Like a lot of times you'll go and you'll look up at the, oh, these are the chords. And then oddly enough, another place that you find that is Christmas music. I used to always get excited for the holidays because I'm like, all right, new, new shit I get to learn. And those songs aren't easy either. Like they take in that Christmas music is really, especially the older stuff is very jazz oriented. And so just find things that kind of challenge you. My dad and my mom both love Journey. I saw Journey three times while with Filipino guy, Arnelle Panita, which was again, back to the like, Oh, well, you know, you didn't see it with Steve Perry. It wasn't, it wasn't Jerry for me. It was the experience. Yeah. I'm blessed. I'm blessed that I'm there and I'm able to relate to it. And absolutely. That's good. That's good piano music too. Yes. Faithfully. Yes. Well, they have a wonderful pianist. He's amazing. Yeah. His name is escape. John Carr. John, something car, something car, but no, I'll never forget as a Gen Xer. I don't remember what album it's on, but when open arms first played on the radio, that's when we would have heard it. Sure. It, it, it was paralyzed. You just were like, what did I just listen to? It was that and we were young and we were still, I was just like taken away. And when those first notes, you're, you're just like, you stop what you're doing. It's a beautiful song. And, and slick in the band, uh, slick. Rick has put together a

taken away. And when those first notes, you're, you're just like, you stop what you're doing. It's a beautiful song. And, and slick in the band, uh, slick. Rick has put together a beautiful guitar arrangement of open arms. Oh, really? Yeah. No, he's done the same with Vienna also, which is a tune that I'll play gigs from time to time. But oh my gosh, I forgot about Vienna. Yeah. He's, he's so, he's so talented. To listen to some journey. That's the Billy Joel. Uh, oh, Vienna. Oh, Vienna is. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. But, but all of these, it's like, they all contribute. Yeah. And, you know, as a musician, when you're drawing upon your influences, you want to have a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And it's like a chef, you know, I want to grab some of these little, these little, these little time, right? Like you, you go to different places and certain songs and certain moods call for different things. Now I have like the knot, let's say it was only a piano. All right. Well, I know I want a little bit of this, a little bit of that, but now I have, you know, I got two keyboards. I just bought a scent. I can draw from my organ and I can make the organ sound one way or another way. I can go to the clap and I get that funky kind of, you know, superstition, like type five, Billy Preston, then I can go to my keys. I can go to my electric piano. I can do scent pads. I can do strings. That's cool. And so it's like, not only do I have the musical ideas, like fundamentally just looking at the notes, but now there's so much you can do with tone. I mean, like, look at guitar players. They've got pedal boards that it's essentially the same thing, just with totally in with a wedding band. We do the earth, wind and fire stuff. We play like,

like, look at guitar players. They've got pedal boards that it's essentially the same thing, just with totally in with a wedding band. We do the earth, wind and fire stuff. We play like, yo, do a little dance. I forget who that one is. Not earth, wind and fire, but I'm playing horns. Is that cool in the game? Yeah. Cool in the game. Yeah. I'm playing horns. I'm doing horn section. That's cool. On my, my one on the other one, I'm doing other stuff. So you're like a true conductor with all your different, I'm trying. Yeah. Steve was, Steve was the musical director band though. He put in more work than anyone else. He just told me what songs to play and where to show up. That's cool. That's very cool. Yeah. Well, the last thing I'll say, who's the band we just saw at the black hat, the Jerry Garcia experience. So I think that's what they were. Garcia experience. The Garcia experience. Melvin Seals playing with them now. No, that would be cool. Melvin has played with them now that you say that, but not here. We saw them here. It was phenomenal. Really? Black box. No, I've heard about it though. It's a great venue. I was, I was getting a routine, you know, 20, just turned 29, like health checkup. Yeah. And this guy came in, uh, in the waiting room was wearing a dead hat and I struck up a conversation with them and he was telling me that he saw them there and that I needed to go. Yeah. We went to both nights and they're amazing and they come around, they spend their winter down here. So they, they're always here in the winter, but, I didn't feel like that was a cover band experience. They were, he was impressed. I was super impressed. He was impressed. So he even stayed after and talked to them afterwards. Yeah. Yeah. Talk to the guitars. That one's a good

experience. They were, he was impressed. I was super impressed. He was impressed. So he even stayed after and talked to them afterwards. Yeah. Yeah. Talk to the guitars. That one's a good one. Yeah, definitely. Any, anything that's coming up on the radar, I'm gonna go. So here's some shows that I'm going to go see. There's a jam band called dogs in a pile. Yep. I haven't, I haven't really dug into their stuff yet, but they're coming to revolution live in April and then Daniel Donato. Oh, he's amazing. I've seen some of his stuff. He's coming to the, he's doing two nights at the funky biscuit name. Oh shit. Yeah. So I'm going to go last week in April. All right. We're going. I won't get, I would go to that. Yeah. Yeah. I like to, well, Nathan gets seats at the bar now because he's such a regular. So really? Yeah. He, that's his little secret. He goes every Tuesday and gets it. Oh sure. He's been asking me to go and I haven't made it. It's funny. He, the bartender saves him. However many seats he wants. I used to go Thursdays to a fish Depot when they did it. They sold it. Yeah. Like Bonanza. Yeah. No, I may cut out the, uh, the part about Daniel Donato. I don't want to get in sold out. We buy our tickets and then we'll buy tickets first. So before I ask my last question, was there anything? Cause we can cut this part out when I'm saying, was there anything on your sheet that we want to make sure we covered everything. Let's see music and the grateful dad shout out to my mom origin of the name. Oh, the golf tournament. Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. You could want to like lead with a question or. Yeah. So, um, how long have you been doing that? And that's not my question, but I'm curious. Five years now, this would be the sixth year and you started it. Yeah.

like lead with a question or. Yeah. So, um, how long have you been doing that? And that's not my question, but I'm curious. Five years now, this would be the sixth year and you started it. Yeah. Okay. So let's be able to, so it started when I was working at that first company, my buddy Bobby's dad's company. So maybe we could rip off that or I'll just start like, so like, yeah, just, just, yeah. So just start. Yeah. And, and actually, cool thing that had come out of the time when I was working at Bobby's dad's company was I work with a bunch of like mutual friends too. They had a bunch of us that they hired all kind of in similar situation. And we're all at that time, we're all, I'm still an amateur golfer, but I was like even more amateur. And I also like to drink more than I do now. But we, we came up with this idea. Um, that is evolved substantially over the year. But the idea was basically let's get a bunch of our guys together. There's like 12 of us for the first year and get a bunch of four sums back to back and we'll pair up. And for every beer that you and your partner drank, you got one stroke off of your final Mulligan. Exactly. Yeah. A stroke off your final score. And so the first year we played a Delray country club, you know, just Atlantic. It's nice, but, uh, we showed up and we all Ubered there and we get out of the car holding 24 packs. And one of the guys is like, what the hell is this? A bachelor party. And we were like, yeah. And, uh, and we, so, so the first year went pretty well, um, save for small incident with golf cart, but it was fun. Um, and then, you know, next year I was like, all right, you know what? This was fun. Like, you know, I should do it again. I try and do it every October. So, uh, you know,

you know, next year I was like, all right, you know what? This was fun. Like, you know, I should do it again. I try and do it every October. So, uh, you know, I grew it the following year. I think we had 24 people and 36. Oh, and then the biggest it's ever been was 56. And as it evolved, I also, I didn't want people driving. Like I knew that was going to be a nightmare. So we brought in a bus or a shuttle component where people would meet up. We shuttle everyone to the course. We would do our, our, our round of golf, have an award ceremony and then shuttle everyone back to a bar. Nice. So we've done it five times in six years. The only year we took off was, uh, 22, which as I was saying, it was like that year where I was making the change with, and it was around when I stopped playing with the room nators too. Um, but yeah, we did the fifth annual last year. We had 48 people went off without a hitch. We always give out awards and prizes. Awesome. What's it officially called? Oh, it's, uh, called the beers and birdies. The beers and birdies. Yeah. Fall classic fog. It says it open to anyone that wants to do it. Or is it kind of like you and your friends? Can't be a dick. You're going to love this, Brian. We have a whole list of rules and there's all, there's all these rules and there's one section about like, how do you get relief if your balls behind a tree or whatever? And that's rule six. And then rule six a is the main rule is don't be a dick. Yeah. Perfect. It's highlighted. I like that. It's highlighted in the entire, I like that. So, so it's open. People can go on. You have a, a site like, no, no site. It's word of mouth, but I'll probably start organizing it again here soon. It's usually some time in October. I try

that. So, so it's open. People can go on. You have a, a site like, no, no site. It's word of mouth, but I'll probably start organizing it again here soon. It's usually some time in October. I try and do it around, uh, when daylight savings happens and before the rates get on now, before daylight savings and before the rates get jacked up for the season. So if somebody was listening and wanted to participate, how would they find it? Yeah. Oh, that's a good question. Uh, you could just reach out to me directly. Okay. So maybe we put in, we'll put in your, maybe some contact info. Maybe I'll make an email like beers and birdies. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. We can put it in there. But yeah, it's been word of mouth. Mostly. Yeah. That's cool. I love that. You have 48 people now. I have 48 last year. That's a lot. I would assume you know everybody too though. Right. It's. So here, here's a success story of the golf tournament. Um, you know, I try and bring people in from, I have a mission statement. It's basically like, do you bring people from different social and professional circles and for day of fun and golf and just, you know, it's like, it's not working, but it's not all centered around, you know, a little bit of debauchery, but like a healthy amount. Yeah. Um, and so one of my buddies that I went to college with, he comes into play, uh, one year and he comes from Tampa, my friend that I was in, I might go try and see Billy strings with. And then my other, a friend of a friend also comes in up from Miami. They hit it off. And this was probably three years ago. And for this most recent one, they're them and like, you know, a handful of their friends, one of the guys, brother, all get an Airbnb. They all come in

And this was probably three years ago. And for this most recent one, they're them and like, you know, a handful of their friends, one of the guys, brother, all get an Airbnb. They all come in from out of town and they met through the tournament. And now they're doing it just because they love it. No, that's really awesome. That's, and it's, is it all different ages? Uh, yeah. Or is it mainly year round year age? So last year was the first year I had my dad play in it. So he played with some of his friends too. So it's a mixed bag. A couple of years we've had a couple girls play it too. So it's not just, not just guys, not just guys. Okay. Um, but yeah, I'm going to aim to do it around October again this year. So now does any of the money, do you raise any money for something? So traditionally no, but last year was the first year that we did and we donated a portion. It wasn't much. It was like 200, 300 bucks went to first tee, which is an organization to help kids get acquainted with golf. Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah, that's great. Okay. And I'll look to continue that this year too. I think you need a digital flyer for social media and all that. I put it together later. I wasn't prepared to bring it up for this. And I was like, this morning, I was like, Oh, I'm going to podcast. Let me plug beers and birdies. Actually it's something that as we get closer, we can always add it into your description as you know, like towards the fall, you know, somebody's interested. Yeah, sure. Was there anything else on your sheet? Did we cover it? I think if I could just maybe wrap up a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to make sure we covered everything on your notes before I asked my last question. Oh yeah. I have a question for you guys.

I could just maybe wrap up a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to make sure we covered everything on your notes before I asked my last question. Oh yeah. I have a question for you guys. Oh, that's not allowed. I've been asking all the time. Yeah. So one thing that I was wondering, are you guys been doing this? You think you said since like last summer, right? Last summer, I think we started last May was our first episode where we bought everything in March started figuring out the technical details, you know, cause there's camera work here. There's lighting, there's audio and all this stuff. So we started, I think playing with it in March, did our first episode in May, but I don't think we released it until, um, I feel like it was Mayish, maybe not. I don't know. No, maybe May or June we released. So yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. No, first of all, this is super impressive setup. So again, thanks for having me. I'm curious, you know, you've got three kids varying ages, been married for 33 years. You guys are in your early fifties. So you've been adults for some time, but now after interviewing boomers, Gen Xers, Gen Zers, how was your millennials and millennials? You have myself, how was your on adulthood or how's your perspective, how these things changed based on some of the experiences you've heard from people here? That's such a great question. Um, I think that I've discovered there's more similarities across the generations than I thought. Um, I think that the younger generations, the Gen Zs and the millennials have brought such, um, an interesting fabric into adulthood as far as you guys are much more open to talking about your thoughts and your feelings in a positive way and reflecting on things and not just pushing things aside. Um, you, I feel like

adulthood as far as you guys are much more open to talking about your thoughts and your feelings in a positive way and reflecting on things and not just pushing things aside. Um, you, I feel like you honor yourselves more. If you're going through something, you will take the time to, um, look at it, see it and try to resolve it or overcome it. Uh, I think that I'm just so I'm have become incredibly impressed with the millennials and the Gen Zs and how they tackle life. And I know that anxiety seems to be a common theme in those generations, but I think your self-awareness with, um, with anxiety, with stress, with depression, with, um, the hard things that come in adulthood, it has aided you guys so much. And I think overall you don't bury things like Gen X and Boomers do. I think Gen X is just now in our midlife, starting to delve into those things in our self. Like you, like you shouldn't talk about it. Don't acknowledge it. There was no discussion of mental health. It was looked down on. Um, it was judged. And so it's just now where we are stopping and giving ourselves space and permission to express some of those things because no one ever allowed us to, but the younger generations have given us space. You guys have given us space and given us permission. So I'm grateful to Gen Z and the millennials for giving that to us because Gen X especially is the first to say, you know, fuck it. I don't give a shit, but really we were grinding with some carrying so much pain. So my experience just doing this podcast, I feel I've just been so honored to get to know millennials and Gen Z's. And, um, I'm so grateful to what they have brought into society. And I think the younger generations will only continue to benefit from it. I've also

millennials and Gen Z's. And, um, I'm so grateful to what they have brought into society. And I think the younger generations will only continue to benefit from it. I've also learned that Boomers absolutely don't talk about their feelings or thoughts. And I don't, I think it's such a foreign to them that I don't, I think very few of them will delve past anything. I think Gen X there's still hope, but, um, but I do think we all have faced similar issues in our lives, but the way the younger generations are handling them, I'm just incredibly impressed with you guys. So I don't know if that answers your question. It totally does. I mean, I think we were wrapping up saying we, we didn't feel that it was okay to talk about it, but as it's become more prevalent in the younger generations, it's not so crazy anymore. It's not like let's address it. Let's have a conversation about it. Let's use that information to live better, happier, healthier lives. Yeah. And not every Gen X are well, like a lot of Gen Xers will judge not every millennial will not every Gen Z. True. It's true, but there's definitely a culture in Gen X of, especially among the Gen X men of, um, because we've, we've talked about that in episodes, but they bury their feelings and what do we need feelings for? And we just go forward and, but it comes out in other ways that are unhealthy if you don't. So, um, there's not, there's nothing to be Gen Xers that don't, but I do think because of millennials, I think millennials brought the work life balance onto the scene. Um, I think millennial men and women, when they get married or have a relationship work really well together, sharing and, um, outside of the home, Gen X never even discussed any of that. Um, and then I think Gen Z

men and women, when they get married or have a relationship work really well together, sharing and, um, outside of the home, Gen X never even discussed any of that. Um, and then I think Gen Z is whatever millennials have created. Gen Z is just running with it. You know, they're fearless and the Gen Z women, their girlhood is strong. Like they support each other like crazy. Whereas Gen X women were taught to compete with each other and we were more caddy. So those changes, I've just been so honored to be able to hear all these stories. And, um, I think it's positively affecting our generation. Would you agree? Yeah. Yeah. I don't have nearly as, as a, an eloquent answer as she does. I would say for myself and just doing this podcast is meeting people like yourself and others and how humbling and honor, how much of an honor it is for someone like yourself to come in and share so much with us and share your life story. And it might be easier for you because of the generational perspective, but we've had some folks our age come on and share some really just fascinating stuff. And it's like, it's just an honor to have to be in the seat and to have these conversations with people. And, and then, you know, to your point, you'd be a sponge. I'm a sponge. I'm a, I'm always learning and sponging. So I hear some of these things. I'm sponging. I'm sponging. It's going to be a new saying. I'm hearing these experiences and, and conversations and, and especially from women. And it's like, wow, that's really wild. And it's really cool. It's, it's been cool. So you, you learn you, it's cool. We continue to evolve, right? You don't, you'd think, you know, I think when we were younger, we'd look up to people older than us and they were sort of

cool. So you, you learn you, it's cool. We continue to evolve, right? You don't, you'd think, you know, I think when we were younger, we'd look up to people older than us and they were sort of waiting to die in a sense. It kind of feels like that we're still living hard. Like, you know, I would say Gen X is pioneering old age. Yeah. Like I, we're not going to go down quietly. We're going to continue going until probably the day we die. I think as a generation, you know, we are, and hopefully that allows you guys to still have to do the same and to know that life ends when it ends, it doesn't end when you're 50 or 60 or 70 or 80. I used to think like 70 was decrepit. And now I'm like 16 years away from that, which is crazy. Well, plus our, our dame, right? Gen X adulting. It's like, we're fucking adulting here. Yeah. We're not, you know what I mean? It's like, we had to grow up at some point. One thing is that the way you feel right now, you're going to age, but you're going to still feel like this in your brain. Like you're not, the essence of you is always the same. You just happen to be aging. Does that make sense? One question I thought maybe I might get asked a variation of was like, you know, do you feel like an adult? That's a great question. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes more than others, you know, like the fact that I have people that rely on me and especially like the, the opportunity I've had professionally, makes me feel more like an adult. But like I'm a kid at heart. And it's funny you brought up the office because like, even, even in my professional situation, like I always thought Michael Scott was the funniest. And like, I know we have fun. Our team is the cash cows, like get the moolah. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like one of the, one of

situation, like I always thought Michael Scott was the funniest. And like, I know we have fun. Our team is the cash cows, like get the moolah. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like one of the, one of the other guys bought me a cowbell that I rang one time for the meeting. And like, you know, I don't know. I, you can't take everything so seriously. Yes. And you got to try new things and you got to mix it up. And you know, just, I'm so appreciative of the opportunity to do this. Um, you know, you talk about how much people are willing to share. When you first asked, when I first got invited, I was like, I'm not going to say anything. It would have made for really boring. And, and you know, even now, like, as we're wrapping it up, I'm like, you know, maybe we should cut some things and post, but I don't know, you know, you can reflect on it and then let us know. I will, because like, I just, even the format and having the opportunity to come and do this and like the exercise of, and I mentioned this to you before we started of, of like, it's all about telling stories. So how do we look back at our lives so far and like, uh, put it, put a storytelling lens on it. I think so often we just look at the experiences that we go through and we don't get a chance to spend them or, or make, uh, just look at them and how they can be used to shape us and mold us more. We just take them for what they are. Um, and so, yeah, I think I'm, I'm happy with, with how this went and you guys have been great hosts. Oh, thank you so much. Well, I think that everyone has a story, whether you're, you're age 29, uh, we've had 24, 25 year olds. We had a 61 year old here yesterday. It's where you're like, where your story is now and it's going to keep evolving.

has a story, whether you're, you're age 29, uh, we've had 24, 25 year olds. We had a 61 year old here yesterday. It's where you're like, where your story is now and it's going to keep evolving. You know? And so, and I think it helps people to reflect on where they come from. Cause then they realize how far they've come because sometimes you don't realize all the things you've done and all the things you've accomplished and learned until you really sit down and say it. And then you're like, wow, I do a lot, you know, and I, I should be proud of myself. You know, it gives you that moment. We say everyone has a story and they almost gloss over it, but everybody has a story that's unique to them. That's really cool. And it's really special. No matter what it is, it's really cool and special and it's different. And it's unique. And for us to sit in here and participate and talk, it's awesome. But as far as being an adult, um, we just happen to be people that have aged, but we literally, like, I remember, I used to think, Oh, the adults will know what to do. And then you were like, Oh, I'm the adult, but you don't. And that's one thing I'll tell people. Don't wait until you think you know what to do. Like you're the person, just no one knows what they're doing. People put on a good front, but everyone's just kind of doing it, doing it. And, and you have the people are just pretending there. It's like delusion. So you just need to go for it because like we could have not started this podcast because other people are doing it. But no one's better than anyone else. So you have to live I'm big on living an authentic life. You have to live your authentic life. You only get one life and just go for it. Don't compare yourself to anyone else

anyone else. So you have to live I'm big on living an authentic life. You have to live your authentic life. You only get one life and just go for it. Don't compare yourself to anyone else because it's your life. And that's adulting in my mind. And I finally have learned that. I think on that front too, and especially for someone your age, just be a leader, lead your own path. And when others need leading lead them, you know, you're now in management. So you're, you're by default a leader. Yeah. People. Yeah. So, but there's no, there's no secret. It's everyone, it's very subjective. Everyone has their own experience. So, um, just to continue to live an authentic life, but, you know, that's the best answer to the previous question of what have, what, how's your perspective changed? You know, you said it all comes back and through doing this, you know, you're able to kind of draw that conclusion. So yeah, yeah, no, it's true. We learned just as much as when people come here and they leave and we've had so many people say, gosh, I didn't even realize that about myself or I, this is the first time I've ever said that, but we also are learning every time we do this about ourselves. It's almost like a therapy session. We've had people say that. Yeah. And that's why we also always say when you get home, if you need something taken out, that's fine. Well, but that's probably the honor in it for us is that you feel like that you're feel like you got something out there and you didn't. So if it's a therapy session, that implies maybe you feel pretty good. I do feel good. No, positive. I was a little nervous. I'll never been on a podcast before. I don't know. I don't know how much I'm going to say what we're going to talk about. You

positive. I was a little nervous. I'll never been on a podcast before. I don't know. I don't know how much I'm going to say what we're going to talk about. You know, I saw some of the other episodes. I knew we had the music vein in common. Yeah. Yeah. I figured we go down that one and I thought I'd put some thought into it beforehand. Like, all right, how do I want to structure this house? That's going to go. Yeah. But you guys, you guys are great. Honestly, I think you killed it. Oh, absolutely. I think you killed it. You've great job. No question. And that leads me to my last question is where do you see yourself in five years? I anticipated this one. You know, I think for now I'm really, really happy with what I'm doing with finally. So I'm going to keep riding that wave and get back to sponging. I'm going to do that. Sponging. I'm going to do that as long as I can with this current opportunity. But even from leadership above me, a lot of them have other things that are going on and they have other and their entrepreneurs in their own right. And they've pushed me to do that. And then, of course, with my dad being a huge entrepreneurial influence in me, I'd like to get something up and running off on the side, working with AI, potentially scoring calls or doing something else as and, you know, I think what you guys just said, we could have not started a podcast because there's other people out there that are doing it already. I'm like, wow, you know, I could not do what I'm what I want to do, which is start my own company because I don't know. There's so other people in the market already. It's all still so early, like just, you know, have the confidence, take a risk, take a shot and figure it out. It's like trial by fire. It's either going

so other people in the market already. It's all still so early, like just, you know, have the confidence, take a risk, take a shot and figure it out. It's like trial by fire. It's either going to sink or it's going to swim, especially with a business like that. It's not like there's a huge upfront capital expenses or just time. And if I go into it with that mentality to let me just learn, let me just learn, let me just learn. So I'd like to get that up off the ground running. I already, you know, have business registered and things like that, but it's still super early or early stages. And then I'd like to spend some time abroad in another country. I'd like to get that going so that I could work with US clients and maybe go to Spain or maybe to Latin America. I've been working on my Spanish. It's not good. I'm not going to do it on the podcast. But I think that's another thing that's important to me too, is to be, you know, multidimensional variety is the spice of life. That's another one of my sayings. Yeah, that's so true. That is so true. Yeah, no, I think that's where I see myself in a couple of years, maybe five years. And, you know, who knows, maybe, you know, the finally wave takes me seven years, 10 years. I'm not sure. Because again, I just feel so blessed to be with the people that I'm working with now. Or it could all go down tomorrow. Yeah. And I could be trying to figure it out. So I, you know, I'm just going to take my day, day by day. And as long as I prioritize increasing my knowledge and, you know, keeping a humble and an open minded approach, I think everything's going to work. All right. I think those are great goals. And I think just the fact that you take lessons from all of your life experiences, your way ahead of the game

everything's going to work. All right. I think those are great goals. And I think just the fact that you take lessons from all of your life experiences, your way ahead of the game to do that. It's such a great skill. And it is a skill. And it has to be practiced. And I think that you are excelling in that area. And even if it all blows up tomorrow, I think you're going to be fine. And you know that because you've been there. And so and I always view those those as opportunities. Okay, then this means there needs to be a change and it's going to be uncomfortable, but something better is coming along. So but either way, I think you're going to do great and be just fine. But one thing I would add is so when we started the podcast, we didn't know what the hell we were doing. We just had an idea, right? And you're kind of talking about that in an entrepreneurial front, just start and what you'll learn in the first week and the third and the fourth and the sixth month. It's just very different. We know so much more than what than day one. But if we never took day one, we wouldn't know shit. You know, so it's an interesting. Just start. It's an interesting concept. You know, again, like life's too short. Like we talked about when you first got here, we hit midlife and we realized if we're going to do it, we got to do it. We're not we're not knocking the top anytime soon, right? It's not even an objective or a goal. Right. But yeah, it's wherever it goes, it goes and we're having fun. And well, that's the that's the authenticity is you have to know what your motivation is and it's coming from a good place. And then no matter what you do, it's going to be fine because it's going to be sad. I do still want Elon Musk as a guy.

you have to know what your motivation is and it's coming from a good place. And then no matter what you do, it's going to be fine because it's going to be sad. I do still want Elon Musk as a guy. I really do just because I find him to be fascinated. Have you written to him? No, no, but that's a good place to start. Yeah, there you go. Start. Just start. So but thank you so much for your story. Thank you. And we will put all the links to all the things I know we will. And so that if anyone's interested and wants to know where to find Golar and his band and all that stuff, it'll be in his descriptions. I have listened to the band. I was checking them out today. Definitely recommend to me. I do like it. You guys are. You guys jam. I love it. It was awesome. Thank you so much. Yes, definitely check them out. And again, thank you so much. Hopefully we'll have you back maybe in like five years and see where you are. See what's going on. That would be amazing. Yeah, for sure. And thank you to our listeners. If please leave us any comments or questions, we love to read them and we will see you next time. Bye.