# Episode 28 - GenX Speaks Series: Mary's Story

- Podcast: GenX Adulting Podcast
- Published: 2025-04-14T05:00:00.000Z
- Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/16973057-episode-28-genx-speaks-series-mary-s-story.mp3
- Page: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/transcripts/podcasts/genx-adulting-podcast/episodes/episode-28
- Source: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/episodes/genxadultingpodcastepisode28.html
- People: Brian Barker (host), Nicole Barker (host), Mary (guest)
- Topics: GenX Speaks

## Summary

In Episode 28 of the GenX Speaks Series, Mary shares her life story as a proud member of Generation X, discussing her upbringing in New Jersey, her experiences with sports, education, and her journey into adulthood. The episode delves into her career transitions, personal challenges, and her recent endeavors in yoga and holistic healing.

## Key takeaways

- Mary was born in 1974 and grew up in Morristown, New Jersey.
- She comes from a large family with six siblings, and she was the youngest.
- Mary was an athlete from a young age, joining a swim team at three years old.
- She transitioned from teaching English to pursuing a career in fashion and yoga.
- Mary started her own activewear line called Man Maker Sports, focusing on high-quality leggings.
- After going through a divorce and losing her parents, she is now exploring holistic healing through yoga and emotional freedom techniques (EFT).
- Mary is currently studying homeopathy to further her knowledge in natural healing.

## FAQ

### What is Mary’s background?

Mary was born in 1974 in New Jersey, grew up in a large family, and was an athlete from a young age, joining a swim team at three years old.

### What career paths has Mary explored?

Mary has worked as a teacher, in fashion, and as a yoga instructor. She also started her own activewear line called Man Maker Sports.

### What challenges has Mary faced recently?

Mary has gone through a divorce and lost both of her parents, which has prompted her to explore new paths in holistic healing and personal growth.

### What is emotional freedom techniques (EFT)?

EFT, or tapping, is a technique that involves tapping on specific body points while addressing emotional issues, helping to release trauma and anxiety.

### What is Mary studying now?

Mary is currently studying homeopathy, which focuses on natural remedies and energy healing, to complement her yoga and EFT practices.


## Referenced links

- [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42Sb5vL-esE)
- [Listen on Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-28-genx-speaks-series-marys-story/id1764838823?i=1000703420702)
- [Listen on Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1UJC6vY8MFATjhDH28mx09)
- [Listen on Buzzsprout](https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/16973057-episode-28-genx-speaks-series-mary-s-story)

## Transcript

[Music]
Welcome to Genex Adulting and today we
have Mary with us. Welcome.
Thank you.
We're so happy to have you here.
I'm happy to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Of course. So the first question we
always ask is what year were you born?
1974.
So you are Genex.
Yes I am.
A proud Genex. And where were you born?
Marlton, New Jersey.
So you're Jersey girl.
I'm a Jersey girl.
Okay. And do you have siblings?
Oh yeah. There's six of
us. So I have five siblings.
Okay. And what order are you?
Six.
You're the baby.
I'm the baby.
Oh my gosh. So what's the range between
your oldest sibling and you?
Nine years.
Wow. Okay.
Yeah.
So in nine years. Yeah.
That's that's I thought it
was going to be more. Yeah.
Yeah.
So in nine years, your
parents had six kids.
Correct.
Wow.
God bless your mom.
Yes.
Wow. And what's the mix?
Five girls and one boy.
Okay. All right. So
that's a busy household.
Very busy.
And the town you're you. Did you grow up
in that town? The one you're born in?
I was born in Marlton, but I grew up in a
town called Morristown.
Okay.
New Jersey. Everybody thinks it's the one
near New York, but it's not as M O O R S.
Oh, I was.
Okay.
A Philly.
Okay.
Yeah.
I was about to say I grew up in Sparta,
which is near the Morristown.
Yes.
I think you've always thought Mary grew
up in that one. Morristown.
No, I thought, I thought you grew up in
like central New Jersey, but you
sounds like if you're down in Philly,
that's a little more south.
We call it South Jersey. Yeah.
South Jersey.
So were you by the shore?
Well, everybody is kind of, it's like,
we're 50 minutes to the, to the shore.
Okay. Even with
traffic. Yeah. Okay. All right.
There's always traffic and everything's
an hour. Yeah. Yeah.
That's true. So, um, is it a small town?
Yeah. It's a small town.
So you grew up in like a small town vibe.
It was. Yeah, I did for sure. It was like
just a typical suburbia.
Good, really good schools. Everybody went
to the public school. Yeah.
Yeah.
I used to a little bit of farmland and a
lot of people worked in Philly.
Some of the Philly athletes live in
Morristown because you know,
it's kind of right
outside of the city. Yeah. Yeah.
Very suburbia.
Now was your mom home with you guys? She
was. Oh yeah. Okay. So that's,
that's nice.
So would you say you had the
typical Genex childhood of.
You could leave and
wander. And just as long as you.
You know,
you were home when the lights came on or
were your parents maybe a
little more strict than a lot of the
other boomer silent generation
parents that Genexers had?
Hmm. I think, well, definitely.
I grew up in a strict
household for sure. Sure. Sure.
I felt like that,
especially as the youngest. Um,
but my parents were definitely strict,
but I do remember just, you know,
being outside and really the only role is
like, don't scream bloody murder,
or I think you're like dying and pretty
much you can just be out running
and you're like, okay, there was no stay
on the sidewalk by, you know,
that was, yeah, I was kind of it. So you
could kind of wander wherever.
Kind of wander wherever
pretty much. I remember, um,
we all were on a swim team. We all rode
our bikes there and back.
And it was like, I don't know, five miles
away across busy roads. Okay.
Yeah.
One time I had a broken ankle
one time. I still rode my bike.
Yeah. Oh my God. Five miles. Could you
imagine letting our kids?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
even in Jersey, which I think is one of
the States that regulates everything.
At that time there were no helmets.
Yeah. Not that I recall for
anywhere. We never wore helmets.
Not until you got like a moped because
mopeds were a thing today.
It's the surrounds the
e-bikes. Yeah. We had mopeds as kids.
You had to wear a helmet. Yeah. Yeah.
But not bicycles. Yeah. So you went to
elementary school there.
You went to, did you call junior high or
middle school? Middle school.
Okay. Five through eight. Okay. All
right. You, and we were junior high.
Is that interesting? And
then high school there. Yes.
So were you, did you always have a
sibling in school with you?
Pretty much. I mean, my
sister above me, actually,
I think she and I were the furthest as
far as like the order.
She was two years ahead of me in school,
two and a half years ahead of
me in age, I guess. So yeah,
I only didn't have her when I got a
little older at the end,
the last two years. Okay.
And I always, and actually,
I also went to college where one of my
sisters went and she went to college.
We went to Loyola in Baltimore and four
of us out of the six went there.
Wow. Yeah. Well, we
had rules. We had rules.
It had to be a Catholic college within a
three hour driving radius.
So, okay. Okay. So did you
go to Catholic school? No.
I went to the public school. All right.
But then the rule was you
have to go to a Catholic college.
Okay. Except if you're the
boy, then you can go to NYU.
Apparently. Interesting.
Yeah, that's hilarious.
And so that's just was a double standard
that was accepted in your house.
And I said something. I
was like, wait a second.
But were you the only one
that questioned it? I think so.
I mean, everyone's just like, oh, NYU,
cool. You know, and he played basketball.
But I'm like, that is not
a Catholic university. No.
Did you have like seven? I'm trying to do
the math. Your family
was eight people. Right.
Did you have seven parents being the
youngest? No, I mean,
it's funny. No, they didn't.
They were they were just they were like,
it's funny because we broke
my parents down by the end.
You know, I'm getting older, six kids.
They're like, Mary, how
did you let me do that?
Like one point, my parents just went to
the storehouse and I was
like by myself at the house.
My sister's mind was like blown. You
know, she would go out.
They'd be like, be back by 10. You know,
they weren't even around my last two
years of high school.
I think that happens. That's happened
with our youngest. So as I know, we know
the word Dylan is right now.
I think we think we know we have a
general idea where he is.
I know. Actually, you told me where
everybody was except for Dylan. Yeah.
And I think you're the
one that is watching him.
He's fishing, but we're not sure exactly
where, but somewhere in our town.
OK, so did you find that comforting
having a sibling in school with you or
was it at times annoying because you
always had someone there that kind of was
watching or that kind of kept an eye on
you and you couldn't have complete
freedom, I guess, to be you.
She really didn't keep an eye on me. Like
everybody just kind
of did their own thing.
And in fact, it was good. This is the
story I had above me
because she was a good student.
She got good grades. So she kind of
greased the wheels for me when I came in.
They were like, oh, please.
And you know, until.
But it was good in the beginning. OK, OK,
so that was that didn't like squash any
of your freedoms or
self-expression or anything.
So how would you describe
what kind of student you were?
I was not a good student. Now, what was
the reason for that?
Do you just not challenged or do you
think like you might have had like I know
there's a lot of Gen X women that have
they found out they have undiagnosed ADHD
or do you think you just were not
interested in school?
It just wasn't a thing. I was just super
bored and I just wanted to talk to my
friends and be outside and play sports.
And I just it was boring. Yeah. So not
challenged is what it sounds
like. They didn't grab you.
I mean, I guess it wasn't like it could
have been challenged. It
was challenging to skate by.
It was just good enough grades. That was
kind of my goal. OK, so I could have time
to do the things that I wanted to do.
Which sounds like sports. Yeah. So were
you athletic right
from the start? Yes. Yeah.
When did you start playing sports? I
joined the swim team
when I was three. Wow. Wow.
Mm hmm. Is that when you learned how to
swim? I guess I learned
younger than that. Yeah. Yeah.
Because you had to be able to swim like
twenty five meters at three. Mm hmm.
Yeah. Wow. Was that common?
I don't think so. I think it's because
just I had my five siblings all swimming
and I would go to every practice.
And then, you know, when it was time to
learn, they're like, all right, throw her
in. And I said watching so much.
And I was always tall and strong for my
age growing up. I was a big
guy and I just took to it.
So everyone you were a swimming family.
Mm hmm. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah.
You're the youngest one.
You spent a lot of time at the pool then
on weekends. Yes. Yes. With the meats and
all that. Yeah. Yeah.
Was that your main sport? It was my main
sport. Yeah. And like the summer we all
just you would go to some
practice at the pool seven to nine.
And then you'd just stay there. You'd
have lunch. The pool wasn't even open, I
think, until like
twelve. But nobody cared.
You just pack your food, you stay and
then you leave at like six, seven a
night. And that was your
life. That was my life.
And so you did that from three through
elementary school, through middle school.
Yeah. And this was for
the town or the town had it.
It was a little private club in the town
and it wasn't like a fancy
country club or anything.
It was just two pools, diving board, a
slide, a baby pool and a swim team. And
was that your main social world?
It was. Yeah. OK. And did those friends
also go to school with you? Mm hmm. OK,
so that's nice. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah.
And then in high school, what's the same?
You swim? I swam in high school and I
still went to the club and I was a
lifeguard at that point.
Mm hmm. Cool. Yeah. That's a cool job.
Yeah. Yeah. In the summer, that was your
job. Right. That's awesome.
So did you end up swimming in college? I
did. Did you know you always wanted to do
that? Swimming college? No.
In fact, I wanted to play soccer in
college. I loved playing soccer, but I
hurt my knee, I guess my
junior year in high school.
And that really took me back. So I
actually I can't remember if
I I don't think I tried out.
I think the last minute actually asked my
coach for a recommendation. I'm like,
will you write me a recommendation?
I want to try out for the soccer team at
Loyola. And he was like, oh, Mary, you're
not the player you used to be, you know.
And I was really like, oh, OK, thanks for
the support there. Like, you know, it's
not like I don't know.
I just feel like I was a horrible way to
write that recommendation. Right. She
has. She's an athlete, high potential,
but she hurt her knee.
She's worth giving a shot. Yeah. Yeah.
That's the letter. And
June and junior year.
That's a pivotal year when a lot of
people are figuring out where they want
to play, especially as an athlete.
And had you been playing soccer in tandem
with swimming? Yeah, it's a soccer in the
fall. And did you do like travel soccer
too? Or was it mainly?
I did travel soccer when I was young. I
actually just reminded me of that. Yeah.
So you really enjoyed soccer.
I loved it. But I loved that.
I love soccer and swimming the best. I
played a bunch of sports, but those are
my favorite. Yeah. I can't believe that
he said that to you.
Yeah. And it was a bummer, but it was OK
because it's not like they were even
doing scholarships. It's not like his
name is in the line for some, you know,
oh, there's a couple
of scholarships on one.
I like it was just kind of crappy. Yeah.
I guess he wasn't wrong. You know, I knew
he wasn't wrong. So anyway, I just I
didn't even in the end, I didn't end up
trying out and I ended up
swimming, which I loved.
And I know I would love it. It was great.
So was he your soccer coach? He was. And
was he always like that? Coaching you
like where you would get those types of
messages or he'd be just
like, no, I just didn't know.
I just know I did everything he'd like,
you know, I was the captain. I did all
the direct kicks, everything, everything.
And I'm like, and I have this
recommendation. And it
was like, what a shock.
What a shock. What a shock. That is just
crazy. What did you do to your knee?
I tore him. Apparently, they said I tore
a muscle in my knee and I ended up having
like a full body, a full leg cast. And,
you know, when that came off,
my leg was as big as my arm.
Yeah. And I just took a while to build
back. Yeah. And but, you know, I wasn't
like I didn't I don't know. I think I
went to the Y. I was like trying to do my
exercises. And it just it just didn't pan
out, which was fine.
But to to even have that opportunity to
swim in college, that was amazing. So you
were very natural, talented athlete to be
able to have because you probably could
have tried out for the
soccer team and possibly made it.
But then to have a backup option to play
to swim in college. You know, that's
great. So what would you would you say
back then youth sports are
different than they are now?
That's pretty funny. I, you know what, I
don't know, because I coached my my dad
used to coach us a lot and I was dragged
to all of my siblings, various sports.
And, you know, it's people don't really
change. There's always going to be those
crazy parents that think their kids the
best or that go ballistic on another
eight year old who, you know, whatever
found their kid and they don't think like
parents, people go crazy.
So I feel like I saw that then. And as a
coach now, I kind of when I coach my
daughter, like, I don't know, six years
ago, I thought, oh, this would be nice.
Be fun. And yeah, no, I had
a mom like go crazy on me.
And what what was she going crazy about?
We had made it to like the semifinals or
something in basketball. And I guess I
don't know if her kid was on
the bench or she didn't like.
I don't even know. All I know is she she
got up, she crossed the gym and she liked
to be on my side and she stood. She stood
like super close and she
just started screaming at me.
And I was like, this lady is going crazy.
Oh, my gosh. No, I'm I mean, eight year
olds, eight year olds. Yeah. Yeah. I
mean, that's been our
experience is that there's some.
But it's interesting that having your dad
coach so much, you probably were exposed
to a lot of that. So for you to say that
was going on back then.
See, when my dad was, you know, he was
very even keel and it was like everybody
played if you ran the laps, if you didn't
run the laps and you don't play like it
was very like, you know, it's fair.
Yes. Yeah. And but there were always
parents that would, you know, be crazy. I
remember. Yeah. I mean, just the parents
of other kids being crazy.
So would you say as far as if somebody's
going to play a sport in college, do they
need to be passionate about that sport?
Is what kind of commitment do you have to
make when you're in college playing a
sport? Well, yeah,
you definitely have to.
You have to like what you do. You have to
like it. So I loved it. And I and I love
the social aspect of it, too.
You know, it was more than just time
times and winning and records or
whatever, whatever the
goals were in the pool.
It was also part of a team. And swimming
is pretty cool sport because it's it's
men and women mixed, you know, when
you're practicing and and
it's a big team for that reason.
So to answer your question, I think that
if you're going to do something well,
you've got to have some passion for it.
You got to enjoy it.
With sports, at least for me, I was also
super focused on just
having fun. I always had fun.
There was never a time when I'm like, oh,
I don't want to swim. I'm so burned out.
OK, I don't. That's not
really my personality.
Yeah. So but you need
to enjoy it. This sport.
It this way. OK, if I enjoyed it less, I
probably would have been a better swimmer
if I enjoyed this social aspect less.
And, you know, I would have been a better
swimmer. OK, then I was. But that's just
not my personality. I
was having fun, too.
It was most of your social world. The
swimmers, the swimming world. Yeah. At
college. And that typically happens when
you play a sport in college.
Right. Does most of your social world
become the people that
are also on those teams?
I think so, because you're with them so
much and you have preseason and then you
have season and then the season so long.
And championships, it goes on and on. Is
it year round pretty much
the whole time you're there?
I mean, I think our championships were
like in March, early March and February.
But we started even before
school started in August.
OK, yeah, that's the whole time. And
would you have morning practices like
before classes? Yeah. Mm hmm.
Morning and afternoon. So two days, two
days. Sometimes it was optional.
OK, so, yeah, that's a huge commitment.
And it's optional, truly optional. Yeah,
I was just laughing.
I should have done two days more. I
didn't. And then also there was what we
call swimming dry land where you go and
you're lifting weights and you're doing.
And that was kind of like that also would
have immensely helped my swimming. But
who wants to do that?
Yeah, but I mean, the fact that you were
still able to make the team be on the
team and without the 100 percent or 120
percent effort, that's impressive.
That means maybe more about the team. I
don't know. I think there's probably you.
I think you were probably a natural
athlete. You had to have been to be able
to even maintain
without doing everything.
I mean, that's pretty impressive. Did you
swim all four years? Yeah. Mm hmm. That's
impressive, too, because a lot of people
like get burned out and will stop.
No, see, I didn't get burned out because
I always I didn't. Maybe I would have
gotten burned out if I did the two days I
did every dry land and
it would have been a lot.
But I was able to find that balance.
That's awesome. Yeah. Now, did all your
siblings do sports in college?
Mm hmm. Yeah, actually, no, my oldest
sister didn't. She swam
on her own like she didn't.
Didn't do the team. My brother played
basketball. My other two sisters, they
went to lay a little on the swim team.
And then my sister, who went to St.
Joe's, St. Joseph
University, she ended up doing crew.
OK, wow. Wow. So was your were your
parents collegiate athletes?
Um, my dad was an excellent athlete, but
he he went to college later after like he
basically was with my mom.
And I was like, if you want to marry me,
you need to get your college education.
And he was like, oh,
all right, let me do that.
How did they meet? They went to high
school together and they actually ended
up going on a blind
date with other people.
OK. And then they went apart. My mom went
to college. And I think I don't think a
lot of women were going to college.
And my dad didn't have a lot of money,
didn't know what to do. So
he went to the army. Wow.
And then when he came back from the army
four years later, I guess my mom had
graduated college and he
came back from the army.
They were at the same wedding. And that's
where they really met. In the same town
where you were born?
No, they they were from North Jersey. So
my dad grew up in Wippany and my mom was
in Providence. OK. OK. All right.
Wippany is legit like seven miles from
Sparta. OK. Yeah. From
where we lived. Yeah. Yeah.
So did he what years was he in the army?
If you had to guess. I don't know. He was
born in 37. So it's 57.
You know, so probably 55 around that
time. Were there. No, it sounds like
Keith probably was my dad's age ish.
And he got to miss all the World War I
and II, obviously. Yeah. And then too
young or the Korean War was it was it
would have been like
Korean War or Vietnam.
But it sounds like he missed both. Wow.
That's wonderful.
Yeah. So then he came back.
And my mom had a wedding. And then that
was that. And then she said, if you want
to get married, you need a college
degree. You need a college
degree. And so then he did that.
And he was working as a teacher and he
went to college, but he had played
baseball in the army. And that was his
main sport, I guess, is baseball.
And how impressive that your mom went to
college, because like you said, at that
time, that was not a thing. I mean, women
did, but it wasn't the norm. So do you
know what she went to school for?
Yeah, she was she home economics. OK.
Yeah. Yeah. I don't even think they have
that. I don't think so
either. Was it four years?
It was. She went to St. Elizabeth's
College. OK. College of St. Elizabeth's.
Thank you. Right. Yeah. So four years for
sure. And then she worked until she they
started the family, their family.
So where did the swimming come from? I
don't know. My mom was probably like,
what am I going to do with these kids?
That's a great way to burn energy. Right.
Yeah. I'm going to put them in a pool. I
think so. I think so.
That makes sense, though. Yeah. Yeah. And
then she could just have everybody
together. Yeah. You're on the pool. Yeah.
I just think it's so impressive, though,
that most of your family played sports in
college. That's I think that's unusual to
have that many siblings place sports in
college. I guess. I don't know. I think
it is right. That the statistically. I
know another family that had all their
kids play. They were all tall. And one
actually made it to the
professional NBA. Yeah.
It's it's rare, though. It's very rare.
Yeah. So I mean, your parents, your
parents somewhere in there, the DNA,
there's some good athletic genes in
there. Pretty athletic, even though my
mom didn't really do sports. Well, she
did synchronize swimming now that I think
about it. OK. Yeah. There you go. Yeah.
So she had she was familiar with that and
had all these kids. And she's like, I
know something. So cute. Let's do this.
Yeah. OK. So what did you go to school
for? L. A. Ola. Oh, I majored in English.
And I did a minor in secondary education
and that minor in secondary education was
not for a lot of education. It was
because everyone in my family, all of my
siblings got their masters or beyond and
after college. And I would watch them all
come back to the house.
And my parents paid for college and we
had to pay for grad school. And so
everybody came home, lived at home, had
no money or students. And I was just
like, I don't want to do that. I do not
want to come back after college. Yeah. So
what job can I do where I don't need a
master's or whatever? And I thought, OK,
I could teach. And that's what I did.
So you saw all your siblings come back
and live back at home while they're
getting their masters. And you decided,
OK, that's not for me. Were you always
kind of taking your own path?
I mean, in some ways, I think so. But I
think part of that is being the youngest
of six. I saw so many paths already
taken. So it wasn't such this brave new
world to me. I'm like, OK, if you do
that, that's what happens next. If she
does that, then that's I saw a hard deal
with that. You know, you know, I feel
like I had experience
through my siblings.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So what did you
do when you graduated?
So I got a teaching job. I moved to
Maryland. I got an apartment. I got a
Nissan Sentra and I had my first job.
Why did you move to Maryland?
That's where I got a job. OK. In New
Jersey, you have to apply like school by
school, district by district. In
Maryland, you send one application out to
the county and it covers
every school in the county.
OK, so it was just much easier to apply
to schools in Maryland. Absolutely. So
you were a high school English teacher. I
was what grade, ninth
and 11th. How'd that go?
I was you know, it was I liked it. I did
like it a lot. I could I love the kids I
did. I love the teaching moments that I
did love. But it's a lot of testing.
And it was tough because it was a kind of
a tough school and a lot of it. I think
this statistic was twenty five percent
went to four year college. Twenty five
percent went to like a two year and fifty
percent went to the workforce.
What town were you in? It was in
Edgewood, Edgewood, Maryland. No clue.
No. Baltimore County. OK. Nice kids. Nice
people. Super nice. I
really enjoyed it a lot.
Was it blue color with that type of
college distribution? Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
So how long did you do that? Two years.
Two years. And talk about burnout. I did
get burned out with English. And I was
kind of anal about it because I would
have them write and write.
And, you know, every comment period and
misspelled this. I am the English
teacher. Like you can't let that stuff
go. But I'm up till two, three in the
morning grading papers and reading
journals and doing these things.
And then and then, you know, you go to
open up your drawer for lesson plans.
It's empty because you're
not you're just starting off.
And then you got to create the lesson
plans and read the books you haven't read
in however many years. It's a lot of work
being a teacher. I give teachers so much
credit. It is a very difficult job.
Yeah. Because you're giving of yourself
so much. And then I always imagine then
the teachers that have children at home.
So you've given of yourself all day
teaching to other people's children and
not just teaching academically, but there
might be personal things going on that
they need your help with or
just that emotional support.
And then you go home and your children
need all that and your spouse if you're
married and and then you somehow maybe
try to find some time for
yourself for some self care.
Maybe I can only imagine the burnout, you
know, if you really think about it, if
you're trying to raise a
family and all that is.
So so two years and you were like two
years. I lost two years.
I can't do this anymore.
So then what did you did you get start
getting a backup job before
you left or what did you do?
Oh, I was like, oh, man, I've always
wanted to be an actress. That's I was
always wanted to be in theater. And but I
never did because I was I was in sports.
And I think New York City is really cool.
I'd love to live in New York City. So I
quit my job. And I that's what I did. I
think I went on Craigslist. I found one
of mine helped me find a way was
Craigslist around then.
Had to think I remember a friend of mine
found this apartment for me a four floor
walk up and I didn't even know what that
meant. I'm like, well, keep keep in mind.
She's a couple years, three years younger
than you are. Yeah. Maybe Craigslist.
Yeah. It's been around forever.
Has it really, guys? Wait, had you
because I know Brian growing up in
Jersey, he would sneak into the city. And
so he was familiar with the city.
Did you also go in the city? Our city to
sneak into his Philly. So you weren't
familiar with New York. Only from going
up to watch my
brother's basketball games.
OK. Yeah. So this really was going to
experience living in the city. Yeah.
Unknown. Would you is that a thing to do?
Sneak in the Philly? Oh, and go.
Where do you go? Like down by Temple and
St. Joe's? OK. Did you do that? Mm hmm. A
little not a ton. But a little.
Did you buy fireworks like Brian? No, no.
I do have to ask, did your being the
youngest, did your older siblings buy you
booze or other things when you were
growing up at all? Or because you were
all athletic. You know, we really were
like very PG family.
Now, it wasn't boozing or, you know, a
couple little sneak out things like that,
but it wasn't. And it was nothing like
that. Like I hear my other friends talk
about their high school times.
Like, oh, you know, and I was thinking I
didn't do that. So in high school, you
were you were a party. No, you weren't
like a Gen X that was like Drunken afield
somewhere in your parents that you're
spending the night. Never.
So she had the parents that kept an eye.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know, which is, you
know, there are Gen Xers
who had that upbringing.
You know, there's just so many of us
don't know any of them. Now we've met one
that had my upbringing. Yeah. Yeah.
Because so many parents, whether it was I
don't just the attitude of I don't know
the boomer attitude, the silent Gen
attitude or there were a
lot of divorce was happening.
So you had a lot of women going into the
workforce, single moms. And so there
wasn't a lot of supervision. I was just
like, she was on it. She's like, no, you
can't go. She's how we
are. That's how she is. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Something was going on.
I'm picking you up at 930. Yeah. 930.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's how it was. Yeah.
So okay, so you you got this apartment.
Yeah. And you go in without a job. The
city. Yeah, I didn't have a job. Right.
What are you like? 20? 22 24. I taught
for two years. So yeah, I was like, 20.
Now I was like, 22 23.
Wow. I'm kind of young for my like, I'm a
September birthday. So yeah, I think I
was like, 22 23. And I had a family
member, like an uncle that would were not
related, but we call them an uncle who
had a daughter who was an editor, I think
for a Spanish version of People magazine.
I don't know. And she knew someone in the
city who was a fashion stylist.
And this person who need her name is
Holly, she needed an assistant. Okay,
great. I'll do it. Yeah. And so that was
really my first job as an assistant
fashion stylist to Holly. And so you took
that job. And then did you continue to
try to pursue acting?
Um, not at that time, like I was so new.
And I just had to get like, figure out
where I was and like, how much stuff cost
and which I'm sure even back then, the
city was expensive. Was it ever not
expensive? No, it's always always
insanely expensive. Yeah. Was it a nine
to five job? Or if you were an assistant,
was it 24 seven? It's like you you work
and get paid or you're broke. So it's
like when she's called me, okay, we have
a five day shoot here, you know, and I
would just get a daily wage. And
that would be that and then I just pray
that she'd call me within the next week
or two for another gig. So what would you
do? Like, with that
job as a fashion stylist?
It was my job. Yeah, what was your job?
My job was to iron the clothes, steam the
clothes, which by the way, I'm horrible
at that stuff. I think that's what I did.
She showed me how I got the steam or I
steam the clothes, dress the models.
Okay. At one point, it was my job, like
after like a year or two is my job
actually booked the models, which is
funny, because I remember one time
I was on a photo shoot, you know, I'd
ordered lunch, I just I was like the
gopher. And I ordered lunch. And if we
were on a location somewhere, and one of
the models was like in the woods having a
cigarette and I didn't get his lunch
order and I got everybody's lunch order.
And I, you know, there's no delivery,
then you know, you're going to do all
this stuff, get it yourself and whatever.
And I came back and I'm handing everybody
their their meals. And I'm like, Oh, my
God, I'm so sorry. I forgot I didn't see
you. You must have been out having
a cigarette. You can have my lunch. He's
like, Okay. I was like, Oh, and he was
such a jerk about it. And like, here he
is making like $3,000 a day, you know,
whatever. It's fine. He's right. I didn't
order his lunch. Right, right. Such a non
gentleman about it. But like, lo and
behold, a couple months later, it was my
job to hire the models. Oh, I'm going
through the headshots.
Like, nope. Nope. The moral of the story,
you always got to be good to the little
people. Yes, it's so so true. Because
what comes wrong goes around, comes
around goes around. So true. So were
these models for that magazine? It was
just that was a cat. We did a lot of
catalogs stuff. So so you were just kind
of doing everything and just running
around ordering food, ironing clothes,
like, and then hiring models. Yeah. So
hiring, how do you know who's a good
model? And who isn't?
Like, how do you hire a model?
She knew he was an asshole.
Well, she knew he was an asshole. But
like, if they gave you a
sec, how do you judge that?
Well, you have to just like, mix it up.
Like, you're not going to get everybody
with brown hair, everybody who's playing,
you got to get different ethnicities,
different coloring, some, you know, it's
just something that looks interesting
together that fits the vibe. And then of
course, some specific things you need
someone who if you know, if you're gonna
someone's got a ride a moped or
something, you know,
certain skill sets or whatever. So
Okay, was that fun? Did you enjoy that?
Super fun. I actually like that a lot.
And were you making more
money? Like, was that a promotion?
It was just more hours to
work. So it was just more money.
Then how long did you do that?
I did that for about two years. And then
something happened with the economy. And
people were not hiring Holly as much
because they didn't want to pay her rate.
And so they hired me at a little bit more
than I was making as her assistant, but
not as much as she was making.
And that was a little weird. And I like
asked her, like, Are you okay with this,
you know, they hopped over to get to you.
Yeah. Yeah. And I asked her, I was
talking about this stuff. Now I'm
remembering, you know, some things that
went down. But yeah,
Was she mad?
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I was mad too, because
I asked her if it was okay. And she was
like, Yeah, it's totally fine. And so I
did it. And then she was like, I'm hiring
you again. And I'm like, Wait a second. I
asked you. Yeah, I asked you. And so
anyway, and then so then I started not, I
started being the stylist. And that was
fun. But it wasn't really what I wanted
to do. So and I think at that point,
that's when I started
probably taking acting lessons and
Okay,
courses, and then I walked like a couple
blocks from my apartment to try to figure
out where I could get some money. And of
course, waiting tables and bartending and
stuff like that. So kind of transitioned
out of the stylist and
into
kind of a New York
lifestyle, right? You just hustle.
Yeah, that's what you do. Just hustle.
Yeah, the rent. That's what you do.
So you were you were stylist. And then
you were going out on auditions.
I'm not at that point. I didn't have an
agent. I was just making, you know, cash
working as a bartender, waitress, and
taking these classes. And then, and then
I guess I did get an agent,
eventually, I don't know, I don't even
remember how, I think you just send your
headshots out at that point.
And then people either
accept, say, I'll be your agent or
Yeah, or not. Or they don't hear from
them. Or they're like, Okay, come in, we
want to meet you. And
then they'll say, Okay.
And then you had you said you had taken
acting classes. How are those
really fun? Those are fun.
Are you still friends with anyone that
you met in those classes?
No.
Did you actually learn things?
Yeah, I learned about that. Because I
didn't know anything. Okay, I've never
even done theater, nothing. And they're
like, this is the fourth
wall. I mean, I was like, okay.
Like, I didn't know anything.
And how do you feel you did acting?
Um, I don't know. I think I was okay. I
don't think I was like, great. It was
just it was just fun. It was just
something I wanted to try.
No, it's just fun. Actually, I did get an
audition for like my dream job. Dream
job. Did you ever watch soap operas?
Yeah.
Okay. So did you Brian?
So poppers?
Oh, yeah.
Jen, X latch key. Whatever. Yeah.
On parents.
Which one?
Guiding light. Oh, yeah.
Okay, so that was the one I was obsessed
with my sisters, my mom and I like
obsessed. And I don't know how somehow I
got an audition for that show.
Wow.
Yeah. And so I was, I was so beyond
excited. And I went to the audition. And
I sat and I sat and I sat and I sat and
like three hours later, this this lady at
the desk comes back and she's like,
Oh, you're still here? She's like, Wait,
who are you here to see? And I told her,
and anyway, there was a mix up with the
schedule. And so I was there for three. I
imagine like, you know, by then.
Oh my gosh.
I was so nervous.
So did they not have
you on their schedule?
No. So another lesson learned here. So
they the woman who was I was supposed to
have the audition with came out was like,
I'm really sorry. And there was a, you
know, mix up in the schedule. Can you
come back? Do you want to come back?
She's like, you can do
it now. You can come back.
And I was like, I want to do it now. I
want to do it now. Yeah, which I should
have said, I'll come back. I should have
said that. How come? Because I was
already like, spent with like, energy and
nerves and mascara is probably halfway
down my face by then. And my hair was
flat. And I was just tired. And yeah, but
I was just you're drained. Yeah, I was
trained. And but I just wanted it so
badly. I was like, No, no, I'm gonna do
it. And I remember she kept asking me
like, I did the scene. And then she said,
Okay, now can you do
it like this? And I'm
like, uh huh. And I and I saw myself
doing it the exact same way, like, again,
and again. And she's like, Okay, can you
give me a little more of this do like,
and I didn't, I just didn't probably
because you didn't
have it in you anymore.
I was depleted. And I just was so focused
on getting it done, I guess. And then I
didn't get the job. But um, when you're
doing that, are you reading with just one
person or is there like a
particular it was just she and I?
So how many of those types of
auditions that you go out on?
Not many, not many at all. That was like,
that would have been a big break. And
again, I don't even know how I got that
one. I mean, you know, you're just
mailing stuff out to network. I don't
know how I got that. But I blew it. It
wasn't meant to be. And
and your waitressing and bartending at
the same time. And that stuff at any
particular restaurant that's still there,
or just random know if it's still there.
Do you do you remember where
you were living at the time?
Yeah, so my first apartment was at four
floor walk up on 89th and it was on
second or third. That was perfect. And
then it was like a railroad apartment
along skinny apartment.
It's a nice area.
I was in the middle and
like, in bed. And then
was your apartment the size of like
smaller than this room?
Or the size of this room?
The apartment itself might have been
bigger than this room. But my spot was
like, you know, probably
where Brian and I to the wall.
So small. Yeah. Were you
living with other people?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh,
it wasn't just my spot.
No, you almost have to.
Yeah. How many people
were you living with?
Just one girl and she needed a roommate.
And then I always lived on the Upper East
Side. And then by the end, when I
actually had jobs and was doing well
before I moved to Florida, I was on
87th and Lexington.
That's cool.
Yeah.
So your wait, you're seeing your
bartending, you're hoping for auditions.
Yeah.
And how long did you do that?
Oh, God, I don't know. Probably another
two years. And then I was like, All
right, I'm tired of this hustle. I mean,
I'd like a paycheck. I'd like a little
bit of security. And that's when I
started becoming a assistant salesperson
in the Government District, which
actually happened through one of my
jobs that I got
working for a bongo gene.
So that way. So go back what
the bongo genes, what's that?
So the bongo genes. So I got sent on a
ghost and they needed a showroom model,
just someone to wear the genes while
they're selling the selling the genes to
their buyers that come in. So I did that.
And it was great, great, great job
because I was in like, like, say you gave
a presentation, I would be modeling for
you and then if I gave right, so I'd hear
how you presented how he was like all of
the sales people to the president.
I got to hear everybody's presentations
and I learned a lot about the genes, the
product, how to sell presentations, the
whole thing. And so after doing that for
probably another two years, I asked for,
hey, can I work here, you
know, I'd be an assistant.
So the bongo genes modeling gig was a two
year job that you or was that just like
one of the gigs you would go out on?
Just one of the gigs, but it was most
regular. Yeah, it was
like every month I was there.
So you would be live wearing the genes
where they could see you in the genes.
Oh, that's cool. So as they're doing a
sales presentation,
you're saying, oh, okay.
Yeah, yeah. So they have like a whole
rack of the line. And they could be like,
and the buyer would say, I don't know
about those. Oh, Mary, throw them on. I'm
like, okay, here's what you know.
Wow.
Seeing stuff on looks a lot different
than just hanging. Yeah, that was fun.
And I met one of my best friends at that
job who I'm still
best. Okay, that's cool.
So okay, really quick. So the buyers are
maybe from like
Macy's or Nordstrom where?
That's exactly where they're from.
Okay, cool.
All over the nation.
I didn't know they did that where they
have models right there.
It's New York Fashion District.
I guess that makes sense.
That's cool.
So in addition to going out on auditions
for acting, you were
also getting modeling.
Yeah, I did end up getting some of those,
which I wasn't, you know, I, I wasn't
thinking I was going to do that. But then
the bongo thing became very consistent.
And then I gave up on the acting thing.
It was just too much where I was probably
spending more money on taxis and subways.
And I was like, on anything. I just
stopped doing that. And
that's when I wanted to become
Were there are there any interesting
stories from your modeling days? Besides
the bongo? That's interesting. But it
didn't anything else happen. Because
modeling in New York, I can only imagine.
That's quite an adventure.
Yeah, it was an adventure. It was an
adventure. I yeah, it's a lot of a lot of
did a lot of random stuff like I did like
wedding. For some reason, I booked a lot
of wedding showroom things.
Okay, that was fun. And I did like, just
I actually was in swimming magazine or
swimmer magazine something I did some
swimming things and some fitness things
and other magazines. And
were you in any like, like
Cosmo or any of those magazines?
Cosmo was one of the first jobs I booked.
And that was just a big one. It was a big
one. It was, it was a I
got called to go. And I
almost didn't go. I was like, I am not
going to an edition for Cosmopolitan
magazine. Like, I'm not
doing this. I'm you know,
why did you hesitate?
Because like, Cosmo, these are models
like they're 510. They're beautiful. Like
this is this is what they're doing with
their lives, you know, and I'm just
taking some acting classes
and throwing on jeans. I'm
like, I'm not going to
Cosmopolitan. This is nuts.
You had like imposter
syndrome a little bit.
Totally, totally. I was like, what am I
doing? I don't have a book. You have to
have this book with all these tear sheets
and all these things that you've done.
Like, I haven't done
anything. So I went there and
the content as building up on whatever
floor and I was like, I think I showed a
headshot that I had. I didn't even have
any modeling picture. Yeah, you know,
because the bongo thing was live. And
anyway, they're like, okay, yeah, go into
this room. I would just want you to show
the two women like we just want you to
try on this outfit. I'm
like, okay, that's fine.
Teeny tiny outfit, like a little teeny,
lacy boy short and a little crop thing.
And I was now even more horrified and
embarrassed. And I just, there's no way
I'm putting this on like,
is it like lingerie almost?
Pretty much. I mean, it was Yeah, it was
cute. It was tasteful. But yeah, it was
very skimpy. Like kind of fluorescent
lights to people I don't even know.
Yeah. And you never modeled
something like that before.
No, no. And this wasn't thank God they
weren't taking pictures. This was just
they just wanted to see what I look like.
Yeah. And I remember being in the
bathroom like how do I get out of this?
How do I get in there? I tell them I
puked like I how do I get out of this? I
can't walk out there. I'm not not and I
was probably really 10 minutes. Like,
wow, you're taking a long time to it
wasn't that much to that outfit. Totally,
totally. And then I finally was like, Oh
my god, I just walked out like probably
with the worst like just head down.
Like, okay, here. I was like, Okay,
they're like, Okay, I'm like, Okay. And
then they said, Well, can you just turn
around? Can you just do a 360? And then I
was like, this is could this get any
worse? Like, what's you seriously? So I
stand I do the 360. Then I'm like, good,
we're good. We're okay. Great. I ran back
to the bathroom, got dressed. I'm out.
And back then, I think I had a beeper or
a blackberry. I don't know what I had.
But by the time I was just a couple
blocks, my agent called me was like, Oh,
Mary, you booked a job for Cosmo. Wow. I
was like, what? That's cool. That's cool.
Yeah. And, and that was cool. But I was I
was the one and only time but the moral
of that story that I've told that story
to my daughter before is like, don't tell
yourself no, even if just let someone
else tell you no, I didn't if you don't
get it, you don't get it. You know,
there's a lot of things
you're not going to get. But
you can take that into almost any aspect
of life. Anything that is huge. Don't
tell don't tell yourself no, let someone
else tell you no. That's just just go.
Just do it. Just do
it. You just don't know.
Now. Yeah.
Has that stuck with you?
Totally, totally, totally
enough to tell your daughter.
Uh huh. Yeah, enough to tell her.
That's a that's a great lesson.
Because that is a great lesson that any
age can adapt to or adopt in their life.
I mean, that's just any situation.
Any situation yourself. No, just just go
for it. Yeah. Worst case scenario, it is
a no. And then you learn like, okay, I
can do something different or
this isn't for me or whatever.
Yeah.
But that's a huge lesson for me.
So how long did so you said about two
years you did the modeling, the acting.
I feel like everything's been on kind of
a two year rotation. I don't know.
Like test it out for two years. You're
like, okay, I did that.
Seems like it.
And then you and then you
got the job as the sales.
Yes. And then I was an assistant
salesperson. And then that grew into an
actual salesperson. I was probably there
for another two years and then that grow.
And then I ended up to be an actual sales
executive there, which I loved.
Wow.
So you've been in the city at this point,
what? Oh, eight years. Would you say
since you got there?
Yeah.
So good. Yeah.
Right up.
Yeah.
So most of your twenties.
Yeah.
All your twenties pretty much. And what
was the what years was that in the city?
Would you say that was almost a golden
era. That's like the nineties.
Giuliani was probably married.
That's what I was thinking.
Nathan was safe back then.
It was fine.
It was beautiful.
It was clean.
I used to take Nathan
and Kai in like just them.
And I would have this parking garage that
only charged eleven dollars all day.
And then we would cab it everywhere.
And I would. That's when
Toys R Us was in Times Square.
Like there were Mars 2112.
That restaurant where it's like you were
like you were living a
different life than me.
So there's a reason for
you to go to Mars 2112.
But it was like this.
The restaurant was like Mars.
There are aliens.
It's like a flea stacks.
Yeah. Yeah.
So it was like I could take young
children and feel so safe.
Yeah.
It was you were there in one of the best
times of the city that I can think of.
Yeah.
Were you there for nine eleven?
Yeah, I was there.
Were you?
So can you share your nine eleven story
the day that that happened?
I was at Bongo and that
was in the Garment District.
So their place was on 40th.
I think it's between 6th
and Broadway or 6th and 7th.
I can't remember.
So 40th and
I just we had the TV zone is between
between clients, between buyers coming.
And that was it.
We were just like, oh, my God, someone,
you know, just flew a
plane into the towers.
It was crazy.
I almost looked like, what is the quake?
And then you see you started seeing smoke
and smelling and everything.
But I was far enough from it that you
could smell the smoke, though.
After a while, I don't remember how long.
And I think I had to walk home.
So I was living on the Upper East Side
and, you know, nothing was running.
No, that was nothing.
So you had to walk. And yeah, it stunk.
What was the when you were
out on the sidewalk walking?
Was everyone just kind of in shock?
Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
No one's really talking to each other.
It was kind of eerie
and scary and panicky.
But like a calm panic kind of everyone
was just kind of like
nobody really knew what to do.
I feel like, you know, or how to get to
where they needed to go.
Yeah. And was the city
pretty quiet for was really quiet?
I think that's why for a few weeks, would
you say after that happened? Yeah.
So he actually went in what a few days
after two days later,
two days later to help set something up.
And but I think that was the only
activity was down there.
I imagine that I mean,
it's New York, right?
It never sleeps. It never stops.
But the quietness is I remember
it was kind of ominous.
It's like people were
just wasn't that happy.
That hustle bustle. It's still there.
But yeah, we set up.
What did we set up here? 94, I think it
was the DNA, the DNA.
They had the DNA collection for the
people who died in the towers.
Their families were
bringing toothbrushes and brushes.
They were hoping to
find people DNA stuff.
Yeah, it was the whole thing.
So so did you then not go to work for?
How long were you not going
to work after that happened?
Like how long did it shut down?
I don't remember. I remember.
I have a blurb. Yeah, I think it is for
pretty much everyone
that is in the city at that time.
So you were there through 9-11.
Were you an exec, a sales executive?
Was that your last job in the city?
Yes. And then had you
had it with the city?
Like what made you move?
I had had it like I
was ready at that point.
You know, it was fun, but I was ready for
the next stage in my life.
I wanted to, you know, I wanted to
experience something a little slower,
get out of the city.
And my parents had always had a timeshare
down here in Florida.
And I would come every year.
I was like, man, I don't
really want to live down here.
How do I live down here?
My dad's like, work, you get retired.
That's how you live down here.
I was like, that seems
like a long time, dad.
Yeah. So and I imagine I mean, that's a
long time to live in New York City.
Yeah, I feel like I've heard a lot of
other people tell me that too.
Like when I ask people that like 10
years, 10 years, I
was there for 10 years.
Like I feel like 10 years.
Yeah, you're done. You're done.
So that's such a grind. Yeah.
You wake up and it's on and maybe you go
hide in your apartment,
but then you need to go
do something and it's on.
Got to be on. Yeah, it's on.
What would you say is like one of your
best memories from living in the city?
Um, oh my God.
Well, before I moved out, I had a great
apartment and my best friend at the time,
her bedroom apartment, her
apartment was right next to mine.
So my living room,
all the other side was.
That's awesome. Yeah.
We both had adjoining balconies.
And yeah, so we had a lot of fun.
Just, you know, at that point that was
just, I don't know anything particular,
but we just ran around and, you know, we
just had a lot of fun.
Would you say you had a very Sex and the
City type experience?
Yeah, that's what I was thinking about
when I just talked about her
and our next journey we got was like Sex
and the City, which is, you know,
the restaurants and then going out and
the dirty martinis and like, you know,
yeah, yeah, running around
having fun. And that's awesome.
You had that experience working, you
know, yeah, we were both working
and doing well and running around and
having fun. And you could afford it.
Yeah, we could afford it at that point
because we had lived with the roommates
and the walk ups and the yeah, you know,
we did all that stuff.
Would your siblings or your parents ever
come in and visit you
when you lived there?
Nobody really wanted
to come in and visit.
My I broke my ankle at one
point, which was terrible.
It was in a
basketball league in New York.
Still playing sports.
I was still playing sports. Yeah.
And was it mixed or just women?
Just women, just women.
I went down hard and I like crazy, crazy
breaking my ankle and I needed surgery
so my mom came up and like stayed with me
for a couple of days
because I was totally immobile.
Other than that, like, no, I think once
my birthday, they
came up and we saw a show
and like, but during the 10
years, no, nobody was like.
Would you do a little
bit of a hike from Philly?
Is there a couple
hours? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, do the tunnels and bridges.
And yeah, did you ever do the Christmas
stuff like Radio City?
Rockettes and all, you
know, I know it's so funny.
I never did that stuff.
I had never gone to the
Empire State Building.
Like you just live there.
So I did go skating in Rockefeller Center
and see the tree and all that.
That's cool. Never saw records.
I never you never went to the top of the
Empire State Building.
Oh, that's worth it.
I'll have to go back and do that.
It is pretty cool. It's cool. It's cool.
We have we have a secret.
We won't share it online, but if you do
text, yeah, way to cut the line.
You have to get to the top.
The way to cut the line.
OK, so you decided to leave the city.
So what steps did you
take to get down to Florida?
Well, I was just visiting
my parents at that point.
I was still working and it was
like just a thought like, OK,
I want to do something else.
I want to live somewhere else.
And then I ended up getting engaged and
marrying someone who lived down here.
OK. OK. Did you meet him in the city?
I met him in the city.
Yeah, we were we were we have a mutual.
We ended up having a mutual friend who
set up up on a blind date.
And so the blind date
happened in the city.
And then, you know, eventually we got
engaged and I got
married and came down here.
So that worked out because you wanted to
be down here anyway.
I wanted to be down here.
So, OK, so it works.
So when you got down here,
did you then look for you?
You didn't have a job when
you came down here, right?
So you needed to find one.
So when I was considering so the swimsuit
is in Miami like for the, you know, the
Garment District in Miami.
But I thought, oh, that's a long drive.
And, you know, I did that in New York.
I don't really want to do that.
And I've always wanted
to be a yoga teacher.
And now that I'm down here, like, you
know, I couldn't
figure out how to do that
in New York and afford rent.
So I I met someone who was doing yoga
down here and she was like, oh, Mary,
we're doing a teacher training.
You should totally do it.
And I did.
So is that something you
did in New York, though?
Did you I went to classes?
Yeah, I took classes.
That's where I first, like, started.
Wow, I really like this yoga thing.
It's awesome. So when did you start yoga?
How old were you when you first did yoga?
Oh, God. Um, oh, I don't know.
Maybe 30.
OK, in the city.
OK, yeah, I started going.
I was going to Equinox and we take
classes there at the gym.
Did you keep swimming after college?
No, I stopped swimming.
But you know, when I
started swimming again,
anytime I get injured or hurt when I hurt
my ankle, I get back in the pool.
OK, I heard something.
I get that when I was
pregnant, I got back in the pool.
Like it's therapeutic.
It's therapeutic because
it's there's no weight.
You just you're not
using your body weight.
So it's very, very gentle.
And I'm happy that I like.
Is that a mind body thing for you or more
just the you know, it'll help.
I know to help anything.
Yeah, I know to help.
And it's like, you know, when
I was with my ankle, I had to.
Just wanted to get off it. It hurt, you
know, to get off it.
And so the swimming and the mobility and
the water, all your joints,
you're super mobile and you're completely
supported by the water.
So it's it's like the greatest thing if
you have any type of injury.
So then you did you get certified to
become a yoga instructor?
And I got certified.
How long does that take?
That it's a 200 hour to be
certified with yoga Alliance.
It was the 200 hours of training and
teaching and watching, observing.
And yeah, that was fun.
And then you started teaching.
Yeah. And then I started teaching.
And did you like it
right off the bat teaching?
Actually, no, I didn't. It's so funny.
I didn't really like
it that much because.
I don't know, I think like I guess I
guess I wasn't that sure myself
in the beginning and you know, this is a
physical practice now.
So you're in charge of
like people's physical safety.
And you know, I saw that I
got a little nervous with that.
But then the more I learned about the
body and the anatomy and the practice
and you know, like anything, the more you
do it, the more you learn.
And then I end up loving it.
OK, that's that's great. And I was like,
I will say I've taken
some classes from Mary.
She's amazing. Yeah,
you're amazing teacher.
Yes. And I didn't know anything I was
doing and wonderful teacher.
So so you're married,
you're a yoga teacher.
And then did you start a family?
Yeah. So then I did.
I have a daughter. OK.
And that's life changing.
That was totally life changing.
So you come from living
almost 10 years in the city.
Yeah. Living the sex
and the very independent.
Very independent. Totally.
You've hustled. Mm hmm.
And now you're living a domestic life.
And you're very zen with yoga teaching.
Yeah. And you become a mother.
So how would you describe
how that changed your life?
Become a mother?
Um. I guess it changed
everything because for the first time,
instead of thinking about what do I want
to do, what do I want to go?
What do I want to learn?
You know, changing from this
and going from this to that.
It was what does she need?
Yeah. Yeah.
And I better learn.
Fast. So I started reading books about
babies and pregnancies
and nutrition and all of the things.
And I slept on my left side and I, you
know, I did all the things.
Mm hmm. And never stopped, I guess.
Yeah, it doesn't. Yeah.
It never ends. Isn't it
amazing, though, how we immediately
come out of ourselves and
it's all about that child?
Has to be like it's just immediate.
Like you're in charge of this life.
Yes. Don't mess it up. Yes.
And invariably somewhere along the line,
we do somehow a little bit.
But for sure. You know,
but it's an instant thing.
Yeah. You know, and immediately we're and
that's why I think it's so hard
for women, especially to balance
self-care when they become mothers.
Oh, yeah. Because our first instinct is
always to give, give,
give to our children.
And that's definitely not something that
Gen X women were taught
because, of course, our
mothers and grandparents.
Well, I can't speak.
Your mom was unusual.
So maybe she did talk to you about this.
But in general, our
mothers and grandparents,
grandmothers didn't talk to us about
self-care,
prioritizing that for ourselves,
even as a mother, finding
that time for ourselves.
And I think that's something that Gen X
moms are just now finding midlife,
really carving that time out for
ourselves, honoring ourselves
and giving that
self-care time to ourselves.
Because when we became mothers, we
immediately were
like, it's all about you.
Yeah. Just give it all over.
I remember when I first
heard that free self-care.
I was like, this is stupid.
I'm like, oh, self-care.
What is that? Like go to
sleep, eat, just be alive.
Like, I didn't I didn't even understand
what it actually meant.
Yeah. And and how important it really is.
Well, for a lot of
people, yoga self-care.
Oh, for sure. Oh, my
God. It's my self-care.
Yeah. Yeah. So all right.
So you're humming along.
You have your daughter.
I'm going to love it. I'm going to long.
And did you do in
addition to teaching yoga?
Did you because you seem
to be very adventurous.
And even though you might have a little
bit of imposter syndrome at times,
it doesn't stop you from
tackling new experiences.
So was there anything
else you did along the lines
while you were raising your daughter and
teaching yoga? Yeah.
So while I was teaching yoga
around 2013, when yoga really started to
become like big, big time
as far as even a fashion movement, right?
Like jeans used to be the comfy clothes
and now everyone's in leggings.
Yeah. And anyway, I just remember like
going to these yoga classes
and seeing these really terrible prints.
Just the kind of reminded me of the
prints that I'd see
like in cars in Europe.
You know how like, yeah, like that that
that cloth on the inside,
it's like these like
neon triangles and squares.
And yeah, so ugly. Yes.
It makes me think of jazzercise.
Like jazzercise patterns.
Yes. Really ugly prints and
patterns that computer generated.
And they're on Nike and
all these great brands.
And I'm like, there's got to
be something better out there.
So I ended up taking a class at the art
school down the street.
And it was a fashion design class and
basically like learned how to do
the computer for these
prints like graphic design.
Pretty much, I guess
you'd call it graphic design.
And anyway, I took this
class and then I got some
manufacturer to like, got
some fabrics and then I started.
All right, let's see what my
print looks like on the fabric.
And I had known all about
fit through my time in New York
and working in the garment district.
So I was like, OK, I
got to find the right fit
and something that's not see through.
I mean, you've seen all kinds
of things in the yoga studio.
You don't want to be seeing.
And so anyway, long story
short is I ended up creating
a leggings line.
That's amazing. Yeah.
How do you even like you said, you got a
manufacturer and you got the fact.
OK, so how do you get a manufacturer?
Yeah, that just sounds like you pick up
and call a manufacturer.
Yellow pages. Yeah, I know.
I mean, and then so how
does how do you even do that?
So the woman I took the class from, she
had a couple of connections
and I was trying to tell her I had to
call someone and they ended up
making some samples
for me that were so bad.
I could have some of these samples and I
don't even know how to sell.
They're really bad.
And then she finally hooked me up with
somebody who does this
on a large scale, lots of brands. OK.
And so and then and then the
same thing with the fabric.
Like I just looked up like Google to like
who I think I looked up
like who does Lululemon
get their fabric from?
Where are these? You know, and I found a
place in California,
which I liked in the USA.
And I asked for some of their samples and
then just trial and error.
Just what fabric weights and
stretchiness that you like.
And they just went from there.
And so then you started
your line, started my line.
It was called Man Maker,
Man Maker, Man Maker Sports.
I just went on like Zoom Legal Zoom, I
think, and got an LLC.
I'm like, I called my
brother. He's a lawyer.
I'm like, do I know? What do I do?
Like, how does one start a business?
I didn't know. Like an LC.
And I did some paintings,
some drawings, some whatever.
And I created some cool
designs and put them on the pants.
And I got a website domain on, you know,
you can do these things.
Yeah. Oh, no. You know what?
I went to Shopify because I was selling
stuff and I just like figured that out.
I mean, it's not hard
to figure that stuff out.
If I can figure it out, anyone can figure
it out because I'm not techy.
So are you you must be
artistically inclined, though?
I mean, yeah, I mean, to come up with
these designs, I mean, and also
you worked in fashion that had to have
been something that
came naturally to you.
Yeah, I think that I've always enjoyed
aesthetically that kind of thing
and always loved
fashion, but I didn't know.
And I just did it. I just did it.
I'm like, let's just
see how it turns out.
If it turns out bad, it's bad.
But some things came out really, really
nice that I was really proud of.
And so I just ended up going for it.
And then where did you
sell your your attire?
So it wasn't just
leggings, right? You had.
Yeah, no, I had sports bras
and I ended up doing a top
and I ended up doing a dress.
I just basically did
stuff that I wanted to wear.
Yeah. And I was just
again, another hustle.
Like I would go to trunk shows like
outside yoga studios
at events around town,
just hustling and filling up back of my
car with racks and all these clothes
and put them in garbage bags and hang
them up and get a table
and get some marketing stuff.
And wow, it was fun. It was a lot.
I did that. And then in the end, I ended
up getting in a couple of yoga studios,
which was very, very cool and a lot
better than all that
hustle, hustle, hustle.
But then Covid happened and and
everything kind of
shut down a little bit.
And then two years must have gone by
because then I was over that.
We're seeing a pattern.
I know. Maybe I am a little ADD.
I can't do anything for too long.
Well, and I and again, I can attest, I
own a few pairs of
leggings and I still wear them.
I wear your sports bras
are super comfortable.
You're not doing that
any of that anymore, right?
But I mean, how
exciting that you did that.
Yeah. You know, maybe I'll go back to it.
It's very cool. Not now.
It was really, really fun. Very cool.
And super high quality compared to pretty
much everything else that was out there.
Super high quality.
I think we learned our
lesson from Covid in Florida.
So you could probably
probably safe to go back in.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Well, speaking. OK, so our our Covid
experience in Florida, I would say, is
very different than
the rest of the world.
Like we we were shut down maybe what?
Two months. We were lucky.
We were very lucky.
There were still some places that still
you still to wear a mask,
I think, in the grocery stores.
Right now. Wait now.
No, no. After two months, I
think we still had to wear.
We did. I think we did. Right.
I think no, no, no. It was suggested.
I remember being in publics and being
like the only person without a mask
because it was
suggested, but not required.
I thought even though
serious hate on that statement.
Yeah. But even though we
even though we opened after two months, I
thought we still had to wear masks
everywhere. Maybe the kids, right?
The schools got right crazy
and stuff, but I don't know.
I don't know. Do you remember wearing
masks in grocery stores and stuff?
I remember taking off my mask in grocery
stores and people being like,
did you miss good? And
they would chase you?
No, I never got
chased. But what happened?
Oh, I know what happened.
I didn't want to wear my mask.
And so they took my
temperature. Fair enough.
So I was like, that's
great at the store. Yeah. Yeah.
I remember going to the food and they
were like, ma'am, can
you put on your mask?
And I was like, oh, I
don't wear masks. Sorry.
And they were like, OK,
can we take your temperature?
I said, yeah, you
totally take my temperature.
So they did that. And that was how that's
how pretty much everyone should.
You know what? The country now that you
say that we went to a lacrosse
tournament up in Orlando and
in order to get in, they had.
Remember that? Yeah. Take your
temperature at the gate.
As long as you weren't, you know, you
never fever, you were fine.
That's right. I totally
forgot about that approach.
Even when we were traveling in
the South the summer of 2020,
it was pretty lax. I
think this I think overall,
compared to the rest of the country,
that's when Dylan was playing lacrosse.
And we were playing
lacrosse up in South Carolina.
Very similar experience. It was over.
Yeah, I think we had to wear maybe your
mask to the table or something,
then you which made no sense. Yeah.
Then you took it off. Yeah. But but I
think we were very fortunate.
Oh, 100 percent to where we lived. Sure.
And for me, we definitely
had a better experience.
Yeah. And northern
France. Absolutely. Absolutely.
OK, so after so COVID hits,
so you're not doing
man maker sports anymore.
Were you still teaching yoga?
Because I know the yoga
studio shut down, right?
They did. We were doing
it online. That's right.
Yeah, I was in my backyard. That's right.
And then and then things
kind of get back to normal.
Was there another any other major changes
that happened in your life?
After 2020. Yeah. So.
Like, are you talking about personally?
Oh, personally? Well, yeah.
So I after COVID, I was just started
teaching yoga again.
And then I.
I guess the most the biggest life event
after that was I got divorced.
You got divorced. Yeah. So
how long were you married?
15 years. It's a long time. Yeah.
So you are divorced.
Now, right. And you are starting really
freshly starting your new life.
Yeah. How has that been?
Good. Yeah. It's been great.
Clearly, I like change. So this. Yeah.
Hey, it wasn't two years. It was 15.
Yeah, it was 15. Exactly. Exactly.
Now, this is a big, huge change.
And you're a single mom. Yeah.
It's a single mom.
So for women out there that are maybe
going through a divorce
or freshly divorced.
What advice would you give?
Because you literally just
went through it. Hmm. Yeah.
I think I would say to anybody.
Thinking about getting
divorced or my advice would be
look into a collaborative lawyer.
So collaborative lawyers and you don't
know this until you go through it.
But collaborative lawyers are will save
you a ton of time and money,
which I did not have that
option so much. I didn't.
Ours was not collaborative in the sense
that our lawyers were litigators.
So it's either like you
have a litigating lawyer,
which is basically a fighting lawyer or
you have a collaborative lawyer,
which works kind of for
the two of you together.
And it's like if you
are on speaking terms,
I think that you should
at least look up Google
if you're anyone's out there thinking
about doing this collaborative lawyer.
So it's just kind of can dismantle your
marriage in a more collaborative way.
That's less adversarial
and fighting and lengthy.
These things go on forever.
And which of course is just a million
dollar signs. It's terrible.
For the lawyers. Yeah.
They make out right there.
And everyone else kind
of gets screwed. Yeah.
Everybody else. And it's like your life.
It's your life. Yeah.
It's like, why are
you getting rich off of?
It's big business. Yeah,
it's big business. So that,
that would be my biggest advice. I've
never heard of a collaborative lawyer.
That's why I'm throwing
it out there because I,
you know, nobody really talks about it.
There are these long divorces that take
two years, three years, four years,
people spending a gajillion dollars. It's
like, just get a collaborative,
talk to your spouse, get a collaborative
lawyer and be like, Hey, listen,
let's try to do this like
that. That would be my advice.
Is that like one attorney who's acting on
both of your behaves to mediate a
conversation and a settlement
rather than you pay your team.
The other person pays
their team. It's one person.
It's trying to help you sort it out.
Or I don't know if you each get a
collaborative lawyer
or if it's one lawyer,
I kind of think it's one that goes
between the two of you and just is like
the mediator type of
person. That's like, all right.
And they try to, and you have
to do that in the end anyway.
You have to kind of figure unless you're
going to go to court and then let some
judge figure it out for you. You kind of
get there eventually anyway.
So it's kind of like cutting to the
chase. Like we're
going to end up splitting,
whatever it is we're splitting and
deciding on whatever we decide.
Let's talk it over now
with this person. So yeah,
people haven't heard of
collaborative. No, no.
It almost reminds me of the concept of a
mediator, but as a lawyer,
exactly what it is, which sounds perfect.
It's like skipping to the end and just
having that person do you see a lot of
money and a lot of
time. That's my advice.
That's great advice. That is great
advice. Cause it's,
it's so stressful anyways,
then to be throwing so
much money at lawyers.
So you have your, is it your own place
now for the first time in 15 years?
How's that?
It's good. I mean, I'm still
just pretty much unpacking.
There's boxes everywhere. There's
painters everywhere. So it's, um, it's,
it's awesome. It's great. I mean, it's a,
it's a new beginning.
It's a new start. It's so it's exciting.
And it's your own
place. It's my own place.
It's your own dishes
and your own everything.
Everything is you're picking
it out. And yeah, that's that.
I'm really happy for you that, um, that
you found a place that you can call home
and you, you know, for you and for your
daughter and your dog.
So that's awesome. So what do I, so then,
um, during the divorce also, um,
wasn't there some loss? You went through
a lot in a short period of time.
Yeah. Um, um, right
before it, I lost my dad.
And so that was very, very, very
difficult. What did he pass away from?
It was, he went to the dentist and he
wasn't feeling well after that.
And so I think he got sick.
He got a virus. He got sick.
And just that generation, what generation
is that 1937? I mean,
that's silent. Yeah. So it's like, they
could be a breath from death.
I'm okay. I don't want to see a doctor.
I'm fine. And it was kind of like that.
And I think by the time we
finally acted, um, it was,
it was pretty far
gone. And it was just like,
we were just like backpedaling and trying
to, trying to save his life. Um,
my dad died at 84, 85. I forget.
He died in 2023 right
after his birthday. He's,
he's the end of the
year birthday. Um, yeah.
So that, that was terrible.
And then right after that,
then the divorce started and that thing
took a year and a half, two years.
And that just came out of that now. And,
um, it's kind of starting again,
back to back traumas in a
way. Yeah. So it is a lot. Yeah.
It's funny cause your dad
also same generation, um,
wasn't feeling well, not really not
communicating it to many people,
maybe your mom and come to find out, you
know, he had cancer.
And I think he passed away seven weeks
later. I think it's,
I think it's something with that
generation, the men,
like not talking about
their health and the women too.
My mom was the same way.
Did you lose your mom? 2021.
That's what I thought. So, and what did
you lose your mom from?
I think just old age, but she, she,
my mom would not take any
medication and, um, you know,
I, she had high blood pressure or she
had, um, heart disease.
And she just, you know,
lived her life and did her thing and
eventually she just kind of,
how come she wouldn't
take any medication?
And she just, she, after my mom died, we
found like all this,
you know, notebooks and things and, and
she, this quote from, I think,
I don't know, Ben
Franklin, Thomas Jefferson,
somebody saying like the best
medicine is nutrition and food.
And she believed in all that, which I
also do, but she, um,
didn't have the lifestyles to support
that completely. You know,
she was an out like going to her yoga
class or whatever. She, you know,
she's homeless kids real life, but so she
just didn't want to take medication
and she did. And I'm not saying taking it
would have prolonged her life or not,
but, um, the side effects and
this and the that, you know,
she just didn't want any of that.
She just didn't want any of that. And she
just lived her life her way.
So, and then she held with
you when she passed away.
83. Okay. So they were both in like,
a pretty good life though. Yeah. She was
83. Now that I know my dad was 85.
But nowadays even your mid eighties is
still kind of young.
People are living longer. I know. If you
think like when we were younger,
I think about 80, but there's still, you
know, it's not how it used to be.
Like sixties are like the forties. I feel
like are the fifties.
Yeah, I know. 100%.
So you lost your mom and then you lost
your dad and then you go through this
so crazy. Yeah. So you really are coming.
I feel out of this into this
new chapter of your life. Um,
you have your new, your
place, your space. Um,
what about professionally? Cause you are
you teaching yoga still?
I'm still teaching
yoga. Okay. Um, and, um, I,
when this whole thing started the
divorce, I mean, I, um,
did I go see a, I went to, I
went to go see a, a channeler.
Okay. So, and she, I walked in there. Now
she's now a channeler. She's a,
like a medium. No,
what's the word she's, um,
Oh, what's the word Nicole
when she, um, not a psychic,
I guess it's type of
psychic, but it's like, um,
trying to think like me. Um, I'm thinking
of like a Ouija board.
No, not that nothing like that
came out. I forget. I forget.
I think it was like in the realm of
Reiki, which is like energy,
which is why I was drawn to
this. And so I went, but she,
but she turned out to be like kind of
like psychic and things. And anyway,
long story short as I walked in there and
she was like, yes, yes.
They're telling me as I'm like, who, you
know, and she's just like,
wherever I was talking to
her and she's like, what is it?
You really want to do, you know? And I'm
like, well, I'm really,
now I know I'm getting to work someday.
Like, you know, I'm,
I'm teaching over, but maybe I want to do
something else or something more into
this. And, um, she was like, have you
ever heard of tapping? And I said, yeah,
I've heard of it, but I don't really know
exactly what it is. And she,
and so then she's like, I think whatever
that turned into me getting curious
about what is tapping,
which is EFT, which is, um,
what does EFT stand for? EFT is, um, and,
energy freedom
techniques. I'm like blanking now.
It's not frequency, right? No, it's not.
It's freedom techniques.
It's emotional freedom techniques.
Emotional freedom techniques.
Yeah. And, um, I,
what's the concept of it?
This is a concept of it is you're tapping
on certain body parts,
most of them on your, your head. And, um,
it's almost like getting acupuncture
without the needles.
Like these are energetic parts of the
body, um, that stimulate pathways.
And while, um, while it's an,
it's considered an
energy psychology. So, um,
while you are tapping on these points,
you're also kind of having a,
your, your, sorry,
don't worry about that.
Why is that out?
I'm sorry to me. You, um, you speak like
what is on your mind.
What's happening with her.
It's an anxiety, a stress,
a fear or something that happened in the
past and it's happening in the future
or something you're worried about now,
um, sadness, whatever.
You're, you're speaking the words as
you're tapping. So, um,
you are processing the whatever trauma,
the worry, the fear,
the stress physically and emotionally. So
it's kind of like re I'm sorry.
Is it kind of like rewiring?
Yes. Yeah. It's like rewiring.
So it's like, you're not
changing the experience you had.
You're changing your
perception of the experience.
You're not storing it as, as, as, as a
trauma or as a trigger stress.
It's another way of unpacking trauma.
It's another way of unpacking trauma.
So not just psychologically, but
physiologically. Yeah.
Cause it's the tapping and
the talking together. Right.
So we're taught that trauma comes to the
body, enters physically.
And so it has to leave physically because
the body never forgets.
It holds onto trauma, right? Right.
Right. Until you do.
And I always say, if you don't deal with
something in your mind,
your body's still going to
deal with it. A thousand percent.
Through sickness, through what something
is going to happen. Yeah.
So it's almost releasing
that. Yes. Physically. Yes.
But also psychologically at the same
time. So it's like therapy. Yes.
It is like, it's like literally like, it
is like, it is therapy.
Pretty much. I mean, I think we're
technically not allowed to think.
I wouldn't, so I got
certified in this. Right. Right.
So you're not able to say you're a
therapist. I'm not a
psychologist or anything
like that. I am
certified in EFT tapping and
it's, it's amazing. I
mean, it's, it's so amazing.
And then what's cool about it is when
you're the practitioner,
all you're doing is asking,
listening and asking questions.
And it's all, it all comes from within
the client, the patient, the person,
you know, and it's so cool. Because as
you're tapping and talking,
you might be talking about this fear you
have of speaking in front of large
groups because you have
to do this for your work.
So we're tapping through it. And then all
of a sudden you're like, wow,
this is crazy. I'm thinking about that
time in fifth grade where, you know,
I was made fun of because I had on like
these bad genes or whatever.
And then, and then it turns into that.
And you kind of, it's like, wow,
what happened? And well, that was the day
that we all went to the auditorium.
And you find out like why you have this
fear of talking in front of people.
And if you can kind of get in there and
just kind of smooth out that memory,
it lightens your load then for a touch.
Yeah, it's very trippy. It's,
it's amazing. Cause all that stuff is
stored in your memory and in your body.
When you do that, then are you, say
you're, you and I are doing this.
Are you tap me or am I tapping myself and
you're talking and facilitating?
You're following my lead. So I'll be,
okay, tap on the side of your hand.
And I'll say something and you'll repeat
it. But it's be your words.
And you'll tell me what's
going on. Like if it was like, um,
we'll just use the talk fear of talking
in front of people. You
could say, Oh my gosh,
I have, I have to give a presentation
tomorrow in front of a thousand people.
And I am anxious and nervous. And I'd
say, where do you feel it in your body?
Brian, you'd be like, I feel it in my
gut. I'm like, okay.
So you'd be like, even though I feel
anxious and nervous
and I feel it in my gut,
cause I have to talk tomorrow
in front of a thousand people.
And then you have an end or
where that's the positive part.
I still deeply and
completely accept myself or ice.
I still know I can get through it and
I'll do it well or whatever the end you
want to say is. And then I'll say, okay,
top of the head feeling
anxious in my stomach.
And then you'll be like
anxious in my stomach.
So I'm doing it and you're mirroring me.
Okay. So you're doing it.
I'm looking at you and I'm,
I'm tapping me and
you're tapping you. Okay.
Which also is a good question because
some people ask like, wow,
how do you do this? Like, you know,
people can go through heavy things and
get through it and not be exhausted or
take it on. And you're not taking it on
cause you're doing the tapping too.
So you're keeping yourself,
then and, um,
is the tapping then sort
of a distraction or you,
or maybe the outlet, right? It's if I'm
tapping and I'm thinking of this,
you maybe you start off with this
negative thing that's
causing you anxiety.
And then you switched to
more positive thoughts or,
or just dig into it a little
bit. And as you're tapping,
is that a way to like kind of get it out?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
That's the outlet
releasing the release, the concept.
Totally. So you're starting to top at the
center of your head,
which is your amygdala. And that's where
your whole, your memories,
your bad memories or your trauma or
whatever. So it's, it's starting these,
every part has a different, um,
energetic like opening in the body. So
you're tapping on very specific spots,
but also why you're tapping. Yes. Cause
you have to think about what to say.
You're physically moving. So you're using
left brain and right brain.
So it does distract you a
little bit. And then, yeah,
so that's a great question and that it's
all part of it and why it works
together. So are you working with people
doing that actively?
Yeah. And have you seen, you've helped
people get something,
I don't know, off their chest, out of
their body type of thing, off their mind.
Unpack their trauma. Unpackaging.
Or as he calls it,
unpackaging. He always gets her wrong.
He says unpackaging, not unpackaging.
I'm coining that.
Then, um, put it on the
shirt. Yeah. But then, um,
so let's say the next day they go to give
their speech and I don't know if you
just touched on this,
but can they then tap at that same spot
to re-calm themselves?
Oh yeah, for sure. Um,
one of the sneaky ways you
can do it is on your fingertips.
You can just kind of squeeze the side of
your fingertips and nobody sees like
one and then the other just
to kind of calm yourself down.
It's almost like
pressure points. I don't know.
Now does it go below
the neck? The tapping?
Yeah. So it starts top of the head here
and then you'll go side of the eye,
under the eye here, here, and then right
around collarbone area.
And then the last area is like four
inches below the armpit here.
Okay. And it starts at
the side of the hand.
Now I know a lot of people also carry
trauma in their hips,
but just tapping not do you.
So you stay, you stay up here.
Physically with the
tapping, we stay up there,
but we can tap on physical
pain anywhere. Okay. All right.
And when I say on it, I mean, acknowledge
it like, okay. Yeah.
Even though I have this searing pain in
my hip and it started last week and I
feel anxious about it, you know, I deeply
and completely is that myself,
like we can go through it and then your
pain can start. Sometimes it's,
there is a technique called chasing the
pain or now they call it chasing the
sensation. It can start to move and
you're like, you know,
my hip feels okay, but now my knee hurts.
So my knee is okay, but now my shoulders
feeling it and you're chasing it.
Cause your body's like sending it places.
You're moving energy.
And also people start to
yawn far. Like things happen.
Energy starts to move.
Involuntary responses in
some ways. What a trip. Yeah.
Do you have people that come for regular
sessions like repeatedly or is it
mainly not as much now I need to, I'm
trying to cultivate my business in this.
So what I'm doing
mostly is teaching yoga,
but I've had some zooms like, and I have
to get my website out there. You know,
I haven't been in like
marketing. Well, you've been busy.
What are you doing? You
got to get it together.
Getting divorced and starting your new
chapter. It takes a lot.
You're really there now, like at the edge
of that. So are you, um,
are you just doing the
tapping and the yogurts or any,
it feels like there's a lot of things
that it's a spider would have,
of related things
that could go with that.
I have one more, um,
pan on the stove. Yeah.
It's homeopathy. So I'm a student of
homeopathy right now,
which is an energy
medicine, really. And, um,
it's a two year program
that I'm in and, uh, I, I'm,
June will be one year into it. Well,
it'll be halfway. Wow. Yeah.
And then next year, hopefully I'll be a
registered homeopath of North America.
So is that like a doctor
of homeopathic medicine?
Not a doctor, just
certified to with homeopathic,
homeopathic medicine.
So that whole thing,
I think is really related to
the tapping and the energy,
the emotional freedom techniques. Um,
because the emotional freedom techniques,
the tapping, that's,
you're moving energy, you're speaking.
And with homeopathy,
you're taking these little
pellets that hold the energy,
the frequency of whatever
it's comes from, you know,
whether it's a flower
or a mineral or whatever,
that's it's the energy from that
substance that's been
potentized and put into
this little teeny tiny pellet that if you
look at under a microscope,
you're going to see basically nothing,
but it holds the frequency.
It's talk about trippy. It's crazy. Yeah.
Yeah. And then you take the pill.
You take it,
you let it just melt underneath your
tongue and your body just kind of absorbs
it. And it just assists
the bodies of the whole,
the whole concept is behind homeopathy,
homo is same. So like cures,
like so say you have a fever and a
headache on the left
side of your head and
you have, you know, a rash on your feet,
will find you a remedy that if you took
it causes a rash on the feet,
headache on the left side
of your eye and a fever. So,
so it like negates kind of,
it meets your body where your,
so your body's responding to something.
So your body doesn't mess up.
Your body's like trying
to help you. Right. Right.
So great examples of fever. When you
start to get a fever,
your body's not hurting you.
Your body's trying to get rid of that
pathogen that that is hurting you.
And that's how it gets rid of it.
So it makes that pathogen uncomfortable
by raising the body temperature.
So when you take a remedy,
the remedy that's very specific to
exactly what's going on,
and there's a million
different kinds of temperatures,
maybe you're better with hot water with
cold lying down, standing up,
there's all these specifications.
But the bottom line is you take the
remedy that that's best fits you at that,
that moment, and it might raise your,
your temperature a little bit,
but it's actually assisting your body.
And then the temperature will be gone.
Rather than suppressing it. Right.
Advil or Tylenol or whatever,
even though that feels better,
it'll, your, your
temperature will come back.
And you're not talking about just one
pill that is the cure all it's addressing
specific issues. Yeah. Super specific.
So when I used to get vertigo really bad,
like I'd have these drop attacks,
and I'd be sitting and soon the whole
room spinning and the solution,
the best solution I found was a
homeopathic. Uh, uh,
I think it was called
like Composeetum something.
Yeah, maybe. And I would put it under my
tongue was sublingual type of thing.
And that thing was the best. Yeah. It's a
trip. So you're onto something.
I I'm a huge believer in that.
Herbalie based. Was that from an herb?
What you took? No clue. I just,
some are herbs, some are from poisonous
substances. Yeah. Yeah. You know,
it's, it's all from
natural earth or somewhere.
You know who's into this very much as
Pat. Yeah. We're going to have him on.
We're going to have a friend of ours is,
um, very well versed in this.
He had like Lyme disease,
nearly died from a few different things
and he found he made it back.
Natural path. Yeah. He's a
natural path out in Oregon. Um,
so you're getting trained in that. Yeah.
So then will it be like,
once you're done with your certification,
you will, you can prescribe people.
But it's all over the
counter. I think, right. It's not.
It's a little over the counter. Like
right now I can, I can, as a student,
I can take, um, cases, you know,
and charge a little mini student rate
because I'm being overseen by an
atropathic doctor who's training us in a
group of 12 people in this class.
And it's amazing. Dr.
Eli camp. She's amazing.
She's got a lot of cool
books out. You can read too. Um,
her name's Dr. E like Elizabeth camp,
Elizabeth camp. And is,
are these on like zoom
virtual zoom every week? Yeah.
We take cases and then we discuss the
cases and then come up with the remedies
and that's cool. It's really fun. Yeah.
That's cool. That's really,
really every day will be different.
You'll be dealing
with different ailments.
And I bet are you finding
so far that the folks you're
talking to have tried to go the
traditional medicinal route and it's not
working. And now it's like, I want to try
something different.
A lot of times that happens. Yeah.
Where they've tried so many different
things and then they're like,
I'll try anything. I'll try this
homeopathy thing, you know?
And some people are just wanting to do
something more
natural in the first place.
So it's like a mix, but you know,
it's interesting with these
cases that we're taking, um,
that I'm getting to listen to. It's like,
I'll give an example, you know,
someone will come in with vertigo and
tinnitus and a skin fungus and
athlete's foot. And then we're like,
okay, so I'm thinking, all right,
what's the worst thing for
you? Is it the athlete's foot?
Is it the tinnitus? Like
what's driving you crazy?
And you take their case
and either they taught,
they taking their case can take like two
hours and it's not just tell me about
your, your, your skin
fungus or your tinnitus.
Tell me about your marriage. Tell me
about your childhood.
Tell me about that or
whatever they want to talk about.
Cause it comes forth.
And then what's blowing my mind is as
we're taking these cases,
we prescribe on the main thing. What's
the main thing of the case?
And sometimes the main thing is not the
skin fungus or the tinnitus or the
vertigo. The main thing is shame that
your dad was in jail when you were a kid.
That's what we're prescribing.
Interesting. So
there's, you're not, you know,
it's not like here, take some dandelion
root for that, right? There's,
what do you do in that situation when you
realize that you prescribe for them?
That's you. And, and you may,
how do you prescribe for that?
That's a psychological remedy.
So that's well, yeah, I mean,
and how you deal with shame,
like you might deal with shame
differently than Nicole deals with shame.
Like you might, I have no shame.
You might deny it.
She might like throw something against
the wall, right? You know,
someone else might like go into like
rages, you know, um, or,
or whatever. So everybody deals with it
differently. And then that's what that,
and it's, it's so specific. You ask all
these questions. It's not, it's not,
oh, you have a headache and you have
this, you would give you that, or, oh,
you have shame. No, no, no, no, it gets.
So psychological and
again, and physiological.
So it ties in with the
tapping too. Totally.
So it can be a whole thing. Like when you
meet with someone, it could be a whole
list of medicine. Wow. So are you
studying anything else that, I mean,
this feels like it keeps
growing and growing. Is there,
are there any other new things you're
studying related to this?
Well, for the, for the, or
in this world, two years,
I'll come back in two years, right?
There'll be some other,
I just feel like it can snowball. Yeah,
it does. It does. And I,
I guess I'm so excited about it now.
Cause it's like, they're,
they're related that the yoga, the
tapping, the homeopathy.
And didn't you go out to, was it like
Tahoe or Palm Springs?
Palm desert in California.
I thought you were studying something
else kind of related in this world.
It's called matrix
re-imprinting. Okay. And what's that?
I did it through Craig
Weiner and Alina Frank. They're,
they're my mentors and teachers for the
EFT tapping. They're amazing. And they,
they kind of check out the matrix.
Matrix re-imprinting is part of the
tapping thing. It's like a leg of it,
but you go into your past life.
Not your past life. You go into your
younger self, maybe.
So, and that's it's, it's very wild. And
it's really cool. And that you do.
And that actually
Ryan, when you said before,
like is the tapping kind of take your
mind off things when you're going into,
into the matrix.
So it's called like the matrix because
anything can happen, it's,
there's no time, space or reality. It's
kind of you when you were 10
years old and you got in this
fight with your dad and then you didn't
see him out, like whatever
the memory was for you that
you have to go back to, you're while
you're doing it, you're
tapping just on the fingertips.
And that kind of puts you in a little bit
of a hypnotic kind of
ish headspace. So you can
see yourself as that 10 year old. And
then you start talking to
that 10 year old as a completely
than you. And you have to listen like
what is 10 year old Nicole
saying? What does she need in
that moment that she's scared? And this
is happening to her or she's watching
something happening,
you know, because you're holding that
trauma from when you're a 10 in your
body. Yes. Okay. So now
so that through the tapping, you can go
back and talk about how you
feel about it now. But through
matrix re imprinting, you actually go
back in your mind to 10 year
old Nicole and you now Nicole
speaks to 10 year old Nicole, just like
you're speaking to me now.
That's who you're looking at.
You're not looking at you. You're looking
at 10 year old Nicole. And
that's when you're in the
matrix. And you have that conversation
and you have that
conversation and you you help that
child heal in that conversation and feel
safe. Yes. It's all about
safety that you become the
person that child needed at that time.
Exactly. Right. Right. You
become that person you ask her,
what do you need to happen? Yeah. And she
can say, I need my
mom to apologize to me,
or my need my dad to come back and not
lock the door or whatever has to happen.
And you and you you give it to her, you
say, Okay, that's gonna
happen. And then you wait until it
happens. Or what do you need? You know, I
need I need my brother
to apologize to me. Okay.
How does it happen? I'm not following. So
when so so if you say
that's going to happen, you wait,
meaning it happens back in it's happening
then. Like when you're with that child,
that's like, let it happen. So let your
mom come back and apologize to you.
Like, it's a visualization thing that
you're going to visualize
your mom came back in apologize.
And now you're gonna close that chapter
in your trauma. This is
you can ask, what is your mom
saying to you? You're asking Nicole, what
is your mom saying to you?
Oh my gosh, she's hugging me.
She's telling me that she loves me. And
she made a big mistake.
And it wasn't my fault.
Or whatever it is. This is like deep
unpacking deep, deep, deep, deep,
this serious question packing now is
there I'm thinking of like
a guided mushroom psilocybin
trip or a peyote or the what's that other
stuff the ayahuasca? Is
that in? Is that part of this
at all? Or is this more the you're gonna
channel it naturally through
thoughts and tapping and it's
you know, you know, I'm going I don't
know, maybe there's a workshop for that.
I'll have to take it.
But I didn't take that one. But for this,
for this, it sounds like that. Yeah, no,
it's tricky. But for
this, it's it's no, it's just you and
you're going into the matrix in your
mind. Because this all
happened. And you're not even though
you're asking the echo, that little you
what she needs. It's
you're not changing the memory. You're
just allowing you in that moment to get
what you actually need.
So then when you come out of the matrix,
it's imprinted in you that
new feeling of I got what
I needed. I'm not harboring whatever it
is. True. You're healing.
You're healing. You know that your
mom left you and you know that thing
actually happened. You're
not like changing your your
reality. Yeah, you would actually
happened. But you get to feel and sense
it's a sensor you get
and feel a different safer solution or
moment or whatever, which is
physiological. It is. And not
just psychological. You allow someone to
envision a different
outcome that they wanted to have.
And then that becomes the memory or the
association, or at least an
alternative to what really
it's allowing people to find pretty heavy
stuff. Yeah, it's allowing
them to find their own closure
to give themselves their own closure when
the people in their lives
maybe wouldn't will never
give it to them. Right. You can. There's
so many levels to that
so many levels. So are you
certified in that because you went out
there and did that whole
workshop? I don't think I'm
certified yet. I have to watch like a
bunch of videos of more and
more and more of that work
being done. And then I will be certified.
I mean, I did the workshops.
I went out there, I did the
workshop, and I had on me. And it was
amazing. I can't even
imagine. It's cool, because there's
things that you think about. I'm sure
everybody has like little
memories that you care that just
the people like kind of talking to you in
the back of your head, even
though you're not consciously
thinking about them every day, or this
sometimes you might be, you
know, I had one and then I
worked on it. And I honestly haven't
thought about it since we're
talking about it right now.
And it would be like a little memory that
I was gonna ask you back there. If you've
has this helped you? All right, you've
gone through some shit
in the last few years. Has
this helped you? Well, have you have you
used this at all? For
current stuff that's happened
in your life? Are you not there? Are you
not ready to go back to
to deal with that yet?
I haven't used matrix on recent stuff.
Yeah, I've used it on things. I don't
know, my memory when I
was around 10 memory when I was around
11. And I would think about them a lot.
But not some I don't
know. Do you know what I'm saying? Call
it your Roman Empire. So
there was this whole thing on
social media, probably about a year ago,
where they say men always
every day, at least once think
about the Roman Empire, every man you
know, thinks about the Roman Empire, at
least once a day. Is
that symbolic? No, it's just they say
that happened. I don't I don't know if
it's literally true,
but they said, in general, men will think
about the literal Roman Empire, that
time, okay, history,
once a day, right? So now, if there's a
thing that pops up in your
head, people say that's my Roman
Empire. That's my thing. That you that
it's just that thing you
think about, you don't know why.
But you still think about it daily or
weekly or whatever it
is, it still is there.
Right.
It's your Roman Empire.
But I wonder, almost what you're
describing, Roman Empire is more like,
oh, this nebulous thought about Romans.
No, no, when it was, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, she's describing more
like maybe some traumatic.
Yeah, I'm just I'm just using something
that's bothersome
figuratively, though I'm saying
figuratively. It's her Roman Empire. I'm
not saying she's
thinking about the Roman Empire.
I'm not suggesting that. But but one's
like nebulous like, oh,
yeah, it'd be cool to live
back in the Roman.
Yeah, hers is personal. Yeah. Yes, I see
what you're saying.
But still, that's like,
you're sort of the goal of this also is,
because of that moment,
that thing that happened,
or didn't happen, or whatever, you have
some you took away a belief about
yourself or about the
world around you. And we
all have these beliefs.
Yes.
I'm terrible at public speaking, or I'm
not good enough. I'm not
smart enough. I'm never going to
make enough money. I'm never going to
have enough. Whatever it is that that
drives everybody has
these limiting self beliefs.
I love the concept.
It is literally rewiring. Yeah.
And and it's self
care. There's your example.
Oh, wow.
And I started laughing at self care. Now
it's like my my thrive. Right?
Exactly. It's definitely a form. Yeah,
because therapy is a form of
self care. And in my opinion,
my opinion only, this, I think this is a
form of therapy. You
know, if you really take the
whole picture of it, how can it not be?
Because therapy gets in your
brain, they ask you questions
and have you do practices. And it's it's
very similar. So and I think therapies
like Freud and Jung would be super proud
of this because they're
the Godfathers, right?
The originators of psychoanalysis. This
is that in such an
evolutionary scale of leaps and bounds.
It's a trip.
How common is this? Is this relatively
new, this concept? Or has this been
around for a long time?
I think the matrix I don't really know. I
know that I think I want
to say in the early 80s is
kind of started and I could be wrong. But
Alina Frank, my mentor,
learned from Gary Craig. And
that was in he did that, like came up
with this thing in the 80s.
And it was and it was kind of
by accident. I think he had like a
client. I think he was a
psychiatrist and a client,
which I shouldn't say his name. It could
have been someone else. I
don't want to mess it up. But
he had a client who was definitely afraid
of water, definitely afraid
of water. And she didn't know
why. And like didn't even want to take a
shower, like looked at a
pool and like freak out. And
he had her tapping like accidentally like
she was like doing this or I don't know,
something was happening. And then she was
like, she was like, Oh, I
can step a little closer to
that water. And he's like, Okay, let's
keep doing this, you know,
and yeah, and it kind of like,
I don't know, I probably butchered that
we may have to edit that out.
Okay, I get the actual facts.
Yeah, it was but it was something like
that. And let's answer your
question. I want to say it was
like early 80s. And that's new. Yeah. But
but I would encourage
anybody listening who thinks
this is kind of interesting, just go for
it. Take the workshop, look
up. Alina Frank and look up
Greg Wiener. They are amazing. And this
workshop I did with them for
EFT level one and two was in
June of 2023. And it took me about a
year. And after that, then I just did
matrix in January of
2025. And, and there's so much more to
learn. There's so much
more to do. Yeah, I can only
imagine. So if you were going to start
taking clients for this,
are you setting up a space in
your new home to accept people? Are you
going to just meet with
people virtually? Or have you
thought about it? So I have a little
office in my house, I could
meet people there, I can meet
people at their houses, or I was working
with a woman in zoom, and
she's in California. So it's
something you can do with zoom. Because
yeah, I'm not tapping on you, you're
doing your own thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it can totally be on
zoom. It's very versatile.
I worked with a guy in the
Philippines. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And
zoom. I think that it's
something that could snowball
definitely, you know, if you start
getting more and more clients and helping
people. Yeah, it's the
business partner, I have to figure out
how to probably need to get
on social media and do all
that stuff that I'm not on. Yeah. Yeah,
but it's it I think for this,
it's worth getting on. Yeah,
yeah. You know, to get to get the word
out. I mean, that's the boring part. But
I got to do that part.
Yeah. Well, you've, like I said, you're
really at this point in your
life now, we are kind of ready
to probably go for it. Yeah, focus, you
know, so you have another
year before you're certified
with the homeopathy. And, and so you'll
have that plus the tapping,
plus the matrix treatment,
or when it helps re imprint, re
imprinting, which is really what you
would do in a tapping session.
Like, so once you have a couple of
tapping sessions with someone, then they
kind of know the drill
with the tapping. If there's a limiting
self belief that keeps
coming up, you might need then you
could say, hey, when I approach this a
different way, we could, you know, it
wouldn't be something
that I would just go to someone and say,
hey, I want matrix re
imprinting, right? Kind of like do
the tapping and be familiar. And then
because that's way more intense. So you
probably have to get
people just used to the whole concept of
what's happening before
you take them deeper into it.
Yeah, there's a level of trust,
obviously. Definitely. Have
you have your siblings done it
with you at all? Have you worked with
I've done tapping with a
couple of my siblings, but I've
done the matrix, I really I've got to do
it. I want to do matrix
with them. Yeah, it's super
I've done it with my I've done an
exchange with one of my fellow students
that we did the workshop
with. Very, very cool. It's fun. And
we're complete strangers. So I think it's
so exciting. I'm excited
to see where this goes for you. Because I
think this has so much
potential. Because I because I
think it, again, it could help so many
people, and especially
people, especially Gen Xers who are
really getting to a point where they're
unpacking their trauma. I could see this
taking off for them,
but not just that, but women who are
going through divorce, like
people in abusive situations,
like it can just be so healing. So it's
such a great opportunity for
people. Yeah, it really has
no, no cap to it. And it really has no,
nothing's too small.
Nothing's too big. Yeah, it can be
I get nervous at work, or I really hate
my boss. You know, I don't want to feel
like that. You know,
it could be any of that. There's no,
there's no problem too big or
too small. Exactly. Exactly.
Now what about with kids? Do people do it
with kids? And helping
them with anxiety and stress?
What about with like ADHD? And ADD? Has
there been any work with
that? I don't I don't know how to
speak to that. Like from a medical
standpoint, I just think that if it's,
you know, everything's
connected the mind, the body, so wherever
that's coming from, if you
can tap on it, yeah, or, or
if there's a result of the ADD that is
undesirable, or that someone's nervous
about like, oh, every
time I go in a classroom, I started like
jerking my foot around, and it
embarrasses me like we can
tap on that, you know, and see, yeah,
kind of and it takes its own
life, it takes its own path.
Yeah, I can, you know, I can see really
helping Gen Z has a lot of
anxiety, that generation,
I could see it how the kids in their 20s
right now, they get
paralyzed a lot of not all of them,
but many of them get paralyzed with the
anxiety, I could see it being a tool
for that generation too, just with
anxiety alone, for anyone. Well, I've
been thinking the the
fidgets spinner things. Yeah, that's a
big thing for the kids with ADHD. It
almost is this comparable,
maybe the fidgets spinner stuff is for
younger kids, because that's
the no, I think that I think
college students have used. I like it
too. Yeah, well, you might I think you
might have some of that.
I don't think I've set still this entire
time. So we might all. So in in this
life, this adventurous
life you've been living where you've been
tackling all these
different jobs and taking all these
different chances, have you traveled?
Hmm. Just recently to
California to do the matrix. No,
I really haven't traveled in the past.
I'd say the past five years, I haven't
really traveled that
much. I used to travel a lot. Where did
you go when you used to
travel? Well, I used to travel
when I was married. Okay, so travel to
different. Do you go to
Europe? Mm hmm. What countries in
Europe have you been to? France. And
then, you know, once we
went out there, then we tack on
the vacation close by go to Italy. That's
one of my favorite places
to go. And England, Scotland,
you know, on trips to go to Spain. No, I
went to Spain in college.
Okay. I'll tell you what happened
to me in Spain. No, in Spain. Well, I
studied abroad in college
when I was a junior. My spring
semester of my junior year. I do that a
lot. We didn't. I don't think
our school offered it. Okay.
Yeah, they did. But I don't know. No, I
didn't. We followed the
dead. Yeah. Oh, there you go.
No, no, we went and saw Grateful Dead
shows. So we know internationally. Did
you go? No, no, no, no,
no, no, like up and down the west coast.
Yeah. You know, we're
studying abroad now. No,
but so you did that your your junior
spring? My spring semester, my junior
year. Yeah, I did that.
And that was really fun. I my parents
kudos to them for trusting
me to do that. Yeah, me out of
my way. Yeah. That was fun. And I was in
Spain. And I was at a
payphone trying to make a phone
call payphone. That's how a billion years
ago. Yes. And my sister
like had a friend and she's
like, I'll call my friend. You're in
Spain. And like, who knows
where they were in Spain. I'm
like, I will call them. So I did. And
like, it's funny. I know really funny,
right? And the phone
was just like beeping. It wasn't ringing.
And I was like, is this
busy sign in Spain? Or is it
getting through? And I had taken off, you
know, as a student, so I
would stay in hostels and travel
and get the rail tickets. And this is the
trick because I was based
in Rome. So this was a trip
to Barcelona. And I had a crossbody purse
with like everything in
it, my license, credit card,
my student ID, my every I slept with this
thing under my pillow, like
it was like a body appendage.
And for some reason, it has happened to
everyone. You start
doing something, you're like,
half your brains like I shouldn't do
this. I shouldn't do
this. The other path is like,
just do it. Don't be such a freak. Yeah,
calm down. So I took it
off. And I put it on the
like the ledge of the payphone. And my
friend was shoulder to
shoulder with me. And the strap was
between us. And the purse was like, I
don't know, like this big. And I'm
listening, she's right there.
And I don't know how I don't know how,
but I looked down and the
thing is gone. It's gone. No,
they're pros over there. They are how
though they're just pros or pro
pickpocketers. I don't know.
But the fact that he moved this purse
past between our shoulders
or between our head, like,
I just don't without either of us seeing
all I know is I'm listening
to speed, I look down and I
my purse is gone. And I'm like, Oh my
God. And she didn't notice
either. No, she didn't notice
either. And I just like dropped the phone
and I scanned the crowd. We
were near like a park area.
And people are like walking at the
drinking fountain,
throwing balls, having picnics.
And I see one guy walking quickly. And
guys don't walk quickly. I
just kind of lumber along. Yeah.
Yeah. Not in Spain. Huh? Not in Spain.
It's all chill. It's all
chill. And this guy's walking
fast. Yeah. By himself. And I just ran. I
didn't think if I thought I
probably should have thought
that I didn't think I just ran after him.
I jumped on his back. I
brought my arms and legs around.
And I did. Yes. Like a piggyback almost.
Yes, exactly. Like that.
That's true. That's true.
She's like, you don't know who you just
met. Oh my gosh. It was the
gentleman jumped on this guy.
And I didn't see my purse. I didn't know
for sure. I just Oh, you
just saw a guy walking fast. And
but she's from Jersey. So you know the
rest. Sorry, buddy. Yeah.
And that's what I said. I said,
nice try, buddy. Nice guy. And then he
screamed and he threw my.
Oh my gosh. Oh, there it is.
And then I got off and then I got and my
friend is just, could you
imagine my friend's reaction?
Just what happened? And then after then I
was like shaking. I'm like, of course,
how would I do that?
That was so dangerous. Oh, that's that's
amazing. That's
amazing. You did that though.
That goes along with your how you tackle
life though. I think
through instinct and not thinking
probably no, but you find success. You
find success. You got
your bag back. Yeah. I got my
bag back. Could you imagine if you had an
that's hilarious. Could you
imagine if it wasn't the guy?
Oh, that's even better. You could not do
that nowadays. No, you
could. No, absolutely. No,
I don't think so. I think people know
they're the same cowards
that were doing that shit.
That's not a manly thing to do it. Not a,
you know, yeah, I get. I
don't know. Ridiculous. I don't
know. I think it'd be pretty scary. So,
and then did you have a
situation in California
with someone named, I thought someone
named Kim or something. Yeah,
Kim. So Kim was who I became
really close friends with who Bongo.
Okay. Okay. That's your,
that's your good friend.
And was it something happening in
California? Oh, so speaking
of Jersey girls, she and I
were, we had to, so there was a show for
Bongo and we had, we were
at in LA and Kim and I were
the model. So we had to, we were in the
same hotel and we're like, all right,
let's go to the job.
And we had to get gas. Yeah. So you know
what they don't do in Jersey, right?
Yeah. You don't pump
your own gas. Yeah. And we were living in
New York, so we didn't
have cars. So we didn't,
and we're like, what do you, what do we
do? Was this the first
time you'd ever been presented
with pumping your own gas? I think so. Oh
my gosh. That's
hilarious. And we were like,
and we're running late. It was behind and
we went inside to get
coffee and I'm kind of like being
like, I know it. Come on, Kim. Let's go.
Like, let's go relate. And
she's just like, oh, and she
starts talking to the guy behind the
counter and she's like so
nice to him. How are you? Good
morning. And I'm like, can we just get
$20 on number four? You
know, I'm trying to get going
and relate and she's just smiling. Like,
and so we, I get my coffee, we
get in the car, we drive away.
And then we start driving and I'm like,
did you pump the gas? Oh my
gosh. Did you pump? I'm like,
we didn't pump the gas. We didn't pump
the gas. Who pumped it?
Nobody pumped the gas. We had to
go back. We had to go back and sure
enough, he was so nice. Why?
Because nice Kim, instead of,
you know, bitchy running late, Mary, you
know, and she's like, oh, we
paid, but we didn't actually
pump. And then he's like, no problem. You
know, he remembered her.
He was like, he was like,
I remember you. You're nice. Oh, your
friend is smiling. I'll cover
this. And I learned from her.
I'm like, I, you know, you gotta, yeah.
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. But
that is funny. You guys both
your first experience and
neither one of you did it.
We paid for it, but that's about it. You
know, it's Jersey and
Oregon are the only two states.
Oregon is that way too. No, we, I didn't
pump gas. That's great.
Yeah. And then all of a sudden we
moved to Michigan. I think that's the
first time. And it was completely
foreign. I didn't know what
I was doing. So now I just bring a bunch
of antibacterial gel with
me everywhere. Now we go
back to Jersey and we had, we were there
a couple of summers ago and
the guy pumps our gas and I'm
like, do we tip them? I'm like, we should
tip them. It feels
unnatural now. Yeah. Totally.
And was there something, I feel like
there was something that
happened back when you were 17
with your dad and like a confrontation
with like someone that was
inappropriate or. Oh God.
Oh, she tapped that one out. Yeah. Did
you tap that one out?
Gone. Yeah, that one was bad. That was
like, yeah, I was 17. I
was a lifeguard and like,
there was somebody who like a creepy dad
that was like kind of, I guess,
hitting on me, but I didn't really know
he was hitting on me.
Like a middle-aged dude.
Only 17. Yeah. I had little kids there
whenever. And he ended up
writing me a letter, like a 10
page, like double-sided letter. Did he
come to the pool a lot? Yeah.
Yeah. And, uh, and I guess my
mom saw the letter and was like, fuck it.
So, you know, my mom like
opened it and like looked at it.
They were like, okay. So is this a dad
that would come to the pool every day
with his kids? Yeah.
Oh my God. And then was it like
mid-season? He gave you this letter.
I don't even remember. And maybe it was
the end. Maybe I was like going to
college. It was the end
of the summer. I was like, I don't know
what it was. Did your dad, I
don't even think I read the
thing. I was just like, what is this? You
know, did your dad confront
him? No. So it was interesting
because I thought my dad would like go
crazy, but my dad was so even keel and
like a gentleman. And,
um, they, my parents said, you have,
we're going to give you the
opportunity to deal with this.
And if you don't deal with it, then we're
going to deal with it. And,
um, I was like, oh my God,
don't say anything. This is so
embarrassing. You know, like the last
thing you know, it was,
it was just a creepy, weird, embarrassing
situation in general all around. And so
I'm like, all right,
I'll say something. I'll say something.
I'll say something. And, um,
my parents came to the pool
and they're like, it was like, they're
eating pizza. They're
having dinner and like, watching.
Watching. Watching. Yeah. Yeah. Waiting
for me to go and say like, yo, this is
totally inappropriate.
And wow. Yeah. And did you? No. I think
that's, I mean, that's a
lot to ask of a 17 year old,
but you know what? I think it was the
right thing for them to do.
And I wish I would have done it.
I just, I think it's like, I was
procrastinating and procrastinating and
procrastinating. I was
nervous. I'm like, you know, I was 17.
Yeah. I'm basically going to go up to
somebody and be like,
you're a pervert. Yeah. Yeah. You know,
you wrote me this letter and you
shouldn't have whatever. And
so I didn't do it. And then, um, next
thing I know my dad's standing there
talking to this guy and,
and it was done. Yeah. I don't blame your
dad. I, your dad had a lot
of patience to give you that
opportunity. A lot of pain. I know maybe
my mom had. Do you think
your mom talked him into that
approach? My mom probably did because,
you know, as I became older
and an adult, I knew my dad more
as an adult. He for sure would have said
something. Oh yeah. You
think about that though,
back then that was before the internet,
before social media. So,
um, think about how easy it
is now for men like that to send stuff
like, like digitally to
young girls. If this guy
felt so brazen, had all the audacity to
send, give you a 10 page letter to my
house, to your house.
Those are the type of guys that are
preying on underage girls on the
internet. I know. And
there's so many of them. Well, these are
the same guys who meet, uh, federal
agents at an airport
thinking it's a 13 year old girl. Yeah.
That's who he is. Yeah. No,
it's crazy though that it's,
I think there's way more men like that
than we even comprehend. Yeah.
Was that your only experience with a
situation like that? Cause
you were out there modeling
and, and, you know, probably in
situations, maybe with some unsavory
people, would you say that was
the worst situation? Yeah. Mm hmm. And
probably after that, it helped you be a
little more on guard
too. Maybe. I think so. But I, yeah, I, I
think so. I think I tend
to be a little more, um,
I think everyone's nice, you know, but I
think living in New York
wisened me up a little bit,
but then, you know, being down here, I
just feel like that kind of went away.
Yeah. Because now I'm
like a sophomore, a gentler version, you
know, and I just, I don't know. But no,
but if, if it was your
daughter, that'd be different. That's
where it switches to them.
Yeah. It does switch. Right.
You know, where it's like about our kids.
I know you're right. I
think it goes on a lot more than
you think. And I have to be aware of it.
It's just something you
don't like to think about,
but it's a harsh reality and it's
something you gotta be aware
of. No, it's one of the reasons
when my kids get all of them would get
social media. I would get
that social media and they
would have to be friends with me to have
it. Yeah. So that I can just
at least have an idea what's
going on. Not that I know everything, but
just to be connected to some
way, because it's so easy to
hide things right now. It's so scary. So
I do have to ask you because
we're in a similar age bracket
here. Touching on the topic of
perimenopause and menopause. Have you
gone through any of that yet?
Not to my knowledge. Or had any symptoms,
do you think? I don't
think so. And do you know
if your mom, did she ever talk to you
about it? I just remember my mom telling
me like she's so hot.
Got it so hot in here. Hot. Yeah. And
that was like in her 50s,
I think. That's what all of
her moms would say. Yeah. They're just
hot. That's all I really remember. I
don't remember anything.
Nothing else. Stabilitating or like going
on and on or anything like that. No. No,
there was no discussion of it. No, they
didn't. No, not really. I
mean, it's just always. Yeah. No,
that was it. Just that she was hot. Yeah.
And that was it. That's why
the air set for 40 degrees
right now. Yeah. No, I'm just kidding.
No, but I think that one thing I think
Gen X women are doing
is bringing the discussion of menopause,
premenopause to light out in the open.
And also for the younger
generations of women, because it's just
as big of a shift as
puberty was for us. And puberty is
talked about in school. Even young boys
know to some extent what girls go
through. They get their
period and physically they know. Yeah.
But menopause is not really talked about.
It's not talked about.
And there's women out there that are
suffering because there's so many
symptoms. And if you don't
understand what's going on, you could
feel like you're starting to
go crazy. And a lot of women
through their 40s as they hit
premenopause into their 50s suffer
because of that lack of communication.
When you say they feel like they're going
crazy, do you do you mean like
psychological symptoms?
They're psychological symptoms. I mean,
other than the brain fog and the
temperature, the hot flashes,
the unexplained 20 pound weight gain,
especially around your middle, the
thinning of the hair,
the muscle, eggs, frozen shoulder. But
then also not being able
to get a word, grasp a word,
which could be related to brain fog, too.
But go to say something and
you know that word, but you're
like, I don't know what that word is. I'm
trying to say I can see
that word. But then emotional
ups and downs because of hormones because
of the drop in estrogen.
And there's so much more.
Like there's like 100 symptoms. And then
the family, a lot of times
the partner, if she's married,
has no idea what's going on. A lot of
times she doesn't know what's going on.
And there's a lot of divorces that
happen. There's a lot of
women that commit suicide.
And so I think it's on Gen X women to
talk about it so that
millennial women and Gen Z women,
by the time they get there, because
doctors really, OBS don't
really give it, it's just do.
It's more like, oh, yeah, workout, eat
better. That's not what it
is. There are doctors who will
offer HRT to help, but it's just this
subject for women that's been largely
ignored and women are
suffering. So it's something that when I
have someone on who's
around that age, I bring the
subject up just to see and you aren't
experiencing it yet. So you can't speak
to it. But as you're
out there living life, if you encounter,
if you start to have those
experiences and not all women
feel it, there are women who go through
it and they don't have that.
They went through the shift.
I know women are like, I didn't feel
anything. Now you are
still, you're younger than me by,
I think three years. I'm 54. Yeah, four
years. So it could still be
there. That's going to happen.
But if it does, talk about it. You know
what I mean? Talk about with
other women, we have to start
and with our daughters too. We need to
talk about when you hit
this point in your life,
these are the potential changes that can
happen. I think it's
important that we're part of that
shift. So and congratulations on not
having any issues yet. But a
lot of that could also be due
to your lifestyle. You live a very
healthy lifestyle. I do
think diet and exercise has a
lot to do with supporting women through
that. And a lot of women
are not on a good diet or
exercise regularly. So I think that's,
you've been a very clean eater for the
whole time I've known
you. Yeah, it's interesting. I had a
raging bout of eczema, which
I've never ever had anything
like that in my life. That's a symptom.
Just saying it is. Well,
but I'm not saying it's
related to that. But it is a symptom. I
don't like I could see that because I
think everything gets
more sluggish, including your liver. And
I think this was a liver
issue that I had to like clean
up my liver. And I ended up I guess
cleaning up my diet. Although I've always
you eat really well.
Yeah, I eat a balanced diet. I'll say I
eat everything. There's
nothing I don't really eat.
But I don't I think I eat pretty well.
And you've never been a big
you don't consume a lot of
alcohol, I don't think right. Since I've
known you, I don't think
you're a big drinker. I'm not
a big drinker. I mean, I guess I'm a
casual social. Yeah. But when I had my
sorry, I had my eczema.
I think that that is that was something
that I cut down on a lot.
Alcohol. Yeah, alcohol like, oh,
I have wine cooking dinner. Oh, wine with
it. And there's a lot of
crap in wine. There is like,
there just is I thought that wine was
like, oh, it's grapes. And
it's for men's those alcohol.
No, food coloring in it. There's added
sugar. There can be way in
it. Like WHU I way there's
so much crap in wine. Yeah. I mean, now
there's organic wines and
things. But I think that there
was like, you think you're just having a
glass of wine and you're
actually putting a bunch of
horrible crap in your body that you would
never opt for. Yeah. And
that's why I think that helps
with my eczema really stop drinking wine
basically for a while. And that I'll
clear up. Yeah, yeah,
totally cleared up. And I'll drink wine
again. But not I wouldn't
say I'm a big drink or anything
like that. No, no, no. Have you noticed
as you've gotten older, your reaction to
alcohol is stronger?
Like, have you ever do you get hungover?
Have you ever gotten
hungover? Yeah. But I think when I had
that eczema, my liver was burdened with
just too many things. And I
would notice then that I would
feel horrible after just one glass of
wine or after you know, and
then after I stopped really
and just cleared all that out and cleared
out my liver and cleared out
the eczema. Now my tolerance
is much higher because I don't it's not
it's the kind of the
opposite way you think it would have
worked. But you think if you don't drink
that much, you you'd have a
low I guess I guess what I'm
saying is my tolerance for being hungover
or feeling bad, right,
you know, it doesn't make me
bad because I think I've cleaned up the
liver. I really think it's
about the liver. I've cleaned
the liver and so I can process this stuff
because as soon as you
drink it's going to your liver.
Yeah, yeah, 100%. Well, you're the one
that introduced me to
celery juice. Yeah. And that's
still as I every morning. That's life
changing. That's medical
medium, Anthony Williams, I'll
never forget when you told me about that.
That was probably like three
years ago, I think when you
think it was more than that was it was
before COVID. And that and
I noticed when I don't drink
celery juice that day I noticed I gotta
get back into it. I stopped
because my ex went away when
I got lazy. But it's so good. And it's
what you put in your body.
So important. We actually we
were out of town last weekend and she
brought celery juice. I
made it and I put it in sealed
jars and I had it because I have it in
the morning. I take my
thyroid meds and then I have to wait
like 45 minutes to an hour and then I
have my celery juice on an
empty stomach committed. Yeah,
changing, right? It's it's life changing.
I would say like, because
you've shared a lot of good
health stuff with me. And that one is one
that I'm so grateful for
because it's it's life changing.
I wish everyone knew about celery juice.
You know, and at Costco, it's back
organic. I wish we could
grow it more easily down. I know. It is
tough to grow. It is Costco. Yeah, has
the pre trimmed bulk
that's the best. It's the best. Do you do
it to Brian? No, he did. He
did. And then you saw it a
while. You did for a while. I typically
fast in the morning. I
don't usually eat till probably
noon. So I can't do that. Well, that was
one of the medical mediums
tips not to fast so much. But
as soon as you consume fat, your liver
stops detoxing your liver
is detoxing during the night
where you're sleeping. And then as soon
as you consume fat, it has
to start making bile. It's
working hard to make this bile to digest
the fat. So if you can at
least from medical medium,
Anthony William says in one of his books,
if you can not eat fat
until if you're trying to detox
until 11 or 12, and you're giving your
liver those extra hours,
like if you just have fruit or,
you know, yeah, avoid any eat, but avoid
something with fat. That makes sense.
That's a good little
way to kind of extend the detoxing of
that your liver has been
doing through that night.
Now, do you stop eating at
a certain time in the day?
No. So you'll just see when and actually,
I'll eat whenever. Okay,
see, I can't grab stuff. I'm
kind of bad. Like, and I'll just, are you
just like a grazer? Yes, it's
rare that I sit down and like
mealtime. Yeah, yeah. I have to stop. I
have trouble sleeping if
I eat too late. Because
I'm still working or whatever I needed to
stop at a certain time. So
but that celery juice I for
anyone listening, it's life changing.
Check out medical medium Anthony
Williams, but honestly,
I just drink 16 ounces of celery juice
every morning. And it
heals your gut. It's so good
for your gut. If you're dealing with
constipation, it will fix that
immediately. It's just and you
just feel your brain feels cleaner
because the gut and the brain are
connected. And it helps keep
all of that. I don't know. I swear by it.
So I can't thank you enough for that.
You're getting me back on a now. No, it's
and I think you even recommended the
the juicer, which I can't remember now,
which one Hamilton maybe? I don't know.
I don't know. I probably say he's a link
of the one I got on
Amazon. Yeah, like a cheap one.
That's a trick. I'll put a link. We
should put a link into the juicer.
Because we've had it.
Add plastics. You got to get like a good
one. Oh, my mind. Have a positive.
No, I feel free. But that's it. That's
what you know. Yeah. Yeah.
But I mean, the juicers are
juicers legit. Well, if you tell me about
it before COVID, we're going
on over probably five years
before that juicer using it almost every
morning. We'll put the link
in there because that that
juicer I highly recommend. I may start
again. You were you were
drinking it with me and then
you stopped. You thought it maybe raised
your sugars or so like it
did. Like I'd get a slight
sugar rush in the morning. But I don't
know if that was
necessarily bad or not. I don't know.
I don't know. I don't think celery has
much sugar. No, it doesn't. No. Maybe
that was just like a
euphoric. That's what it was. My gut my
liver thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Before I ask my last question,
did you have anything we covered at all?
Yeah. So where do you
see yourself in five years?
Five years. Oh my God. Should I make it
an even six? You can go two
years, two years, two years.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's what I'm
calculating now. I'm like, hmm,
like, is me trying to do what? Turn off
her whole system. It's an odd number.
I don't do odd number cycle. That's so
funny. I don't know. Five
years. Oh my God. Oh, well,
something I have been thinking about is
to be an N.D., to be an atropathic
doctor. I think that
would be really cool. And there's no
school in Florida. So in a
couple of years, my daughter
will graduate high school. So it could be
an opportunity for me
to go and get that degree
wherever it is. I think there's one in
Arizona. There's one in
Chicago and a couple of their
places. I think Arizona sounds the most
appealing, but that's just
something I've thought about.
You know, I don't really know if that's
actually two N.D.s that I was just
talking to the other
day, or like, I would not recommend going
to N.D. school. Like you
learn so much more doing
kind of the thing I'm doing with the
homeopathy and having a one-on-one
teacher and learning,
like really dialing into the things that
you're interested in. So
we'll see. But that's something
that's on my radar. That's exciting. It's
interesting. There
isn't a lot of N.D. schools,
I mean, do you know how many there are in
the country? Well, I
can tell you in Florida,
in N.D., you're not even considered a
doctor. It's not considered a doctor.
You're not a doctor.
Like in other states, you can be called a
doctor. Yeah, if you're, it's
four years of medical school,
but it's just you're studying different
things. You're not studying the
pharmacological aspect
as much, even though I think they do
depend on your herbs and
homeopathy and nutrition and
different things. Right. But in Florida,
you can't be called a doctor.
No. Is that common in a lot of
states? I think so. I think more, I
looked it up fairly recently. I think
that maybe it's like
half and half, but I feel like there's
more that don't than do. And that's
something that I would
love to see changed in Florida. Yes,
100%. 100%. Just gives people more
options. Absolutely.
Absolutely. I think that's a great goal.
It's an exciting goal and
involves some travel, maybe a
move change. Would you ever consider
living in Jersey again? It's not
appealing to me. I have
to say now that I've been in Florida, I
love being near the ocean
and I love the warm weather.
You know, it snowed there this morning.
Yes. In New Jersey. It
did? Yeah. I didn't hear that.
My cousin sent us a picture. Yes. It
snowed. Where? In
Northwest New Jersey. In Sparta.
I actually got a text from a friend in
Boston. It snowed in
Boston this morning. Oh, wow.
Oh, that's crazy. Yes. It's crazy. It
snowed, I think once in
April when we lived there.
I always remember maybe March, but never
April. It was early. It was
like April 2nd or something,
but this is late. This is very late.
Yeah, we're in mid April.
Yeah, no. It's crazy. Well,
that's like him. He doesn't even want to
go back ever. Like not even
to visit. Once he left, he
doesn't even know what he's doing. Well,
ever since COVID too, New
York, it just isn't New York.
And so the appeal there isn't really very
attractive either. I
used to love New York,
but I don't, there's not much of a drive.
I think there's hope it'll
get back. I think it'll get
back to, I don't know, maybe not Giuliani
days, but I think it'll get
better. I have hope. I like
to go to New Jersey in the shore, you
know, in the summer. There's
nothing like the Jersey shore.
That's always going to have a huge place
in my heart. Yeah. And
it's just Long Beach Island
particular. Yeah. It's just in flip
flops. It's so cash. It's
just so it's for me that
well, cause that's where my parents lived
also the last 20 years of
their life where I'd go back.
It's just like for me, that feels like
home. It smells like home.
Yeah. Are your siblings still
there? My brother's living in the house.
That was my parents.
Okay. Yeah. So do you have any
siblings down here? I have two sisters in
St. Augustine. Oh,
yeah. They're a couple hours
away. We were just there. Yeah. We love
St. Augustine.
Beautiful. Yeah. That's become our
new favorite place. Yeah. We've gone
twice this year. Yeah. It's so pretty,
right? It's beautiful.
Yeah. We walked, I think over 40, almost
40 miles over three days.
Yeah. There's so much going on
there. And we were staying in old, you
know, the area by the Fort.
So we were staying right there
and we were going out to the
amphitheater. So it's a three mile walk
one way. If you go direct,
then on our way back, we meandered
through neighborhoods and
stuff. It's an awesome town.
Yeah, it is. It's cool. They have, it's
really cool. Yeah. They
have everything. They have the
beach situation. They have like a whole
art kind of thing. They
have the historical thing.
They have a lot going on there. No,
that's cool. They just
don't have late night food
and they need late night food. So yeah,
if they're like nine,
there's nowhere to go. Yeah.
And we're not really drinking a lot
anymore. So there are bars open, but
we don't, we don't really drink a lot
anymore. So we're like, wow,
I guess. What do we do now?
Yeah. This is what people that don't
drink a lot. What do they do? You order
food early. So it's in
your hotel. We learned, but we love St.
Augustine. Well, I think that's a great
goal. I honestly do.
And I think it goes in line with the
theme of your life of
adventure, not being scared,
not saying no until someone tells you no.
I love that. That's such a
great, I hope our listeners
don't tell yourself no. Let someone else
tell you no. It's very
liberating. It's a great lesson.
And I'm excited for you in this new
chapter of your life with
everything that you're taking on
and with your new home. I just think it's
going to be amazing. You
know, you're really hitting a
prime, I think. Yeah, it feels like that.
It feels really good. Yeah.
It's fun. It's exciting. And
yeah, I'm pumped up about it. Thank you.
Yeah. And there's hope for
women. Definitely after a
divorce, there's a whole new life after
divorce. Definitely. You
know, and that's because for some
people, they may not be able to see that
right now, but once you
get through it, there's a new
beginning. Yeah. And it was never fun,
but I think a good tidbit was a
collaborative. Go collaborative
if you can. Yes. Get it over done
quickly. That was great advice. Yeah.
Don't tell yourself no.
Go forward and fight the imposter
syndrome. Yeah, that didn't last long.
And I think everybody has
that at some point, but once you get over
that and then you kind of
realize it's okay to be new at
something. It's okay to not know
everything about, you know, and you just
like let go of ego. Yeah.
Because it's ego that makes you feel like
you need to know everything.
Yeah. And once you let go of
that and are like fine being like, I
don't know, can you tell me or I need to
learn or just judging
yourself? Yes. We're the worst. The
worst. We're the worst on
ourselves. So, but thank you for
sharing your story. Thanks for listening.
Very cool. It's fascinating
all the things you've done
and how courageous you've been through it
all. And, you know, especially
considering, you know,
you came from a quote unquote strict
family, but that didn't stop
you either. You know, you right
away, we're kind of blazing your own path
and continue to do so. So
I'm very impressed. Thank
you. Thank you for sharing your story.
And I think you definitely
have inspired some people
out there. I know there's some listeners
that can relate to
some of what you said. So,
and they'll resonate with them. So thank
you. And hopefully
we'll have you back. And
well, I don't know if you're in Arizona,
maybe you'll fly back in five years.
That'll be in five. So we'll see. I don't
know. I first, I gotta get
my, maybe you guys can help me with my
social and all this stuff.
Get this stuff going. For sure.
For sure. Get your stuff out of some
ideas. We'll talk. Yeah.
I think there's a lot. I honestly can see
you having like, almost
like a health center where
like, cause holistic medicine, it's, it
becomes a practice that has
multiple tentacles. I think.
Right. There's a lot of, a lot involved
and it all ties together.
Yeah. That's happening and all of that. I
think you have such
potential to help so many people.
So in that respect, you got
to get yourself out there.
That stuff is fun. There's so much to
learn and it's just,
it's fun for me. So yeah,
I'm going to keep doing it. Yes, exactly.
So, and thank you to
our listeners. As always,
please leave us any questions or comments
and we will see you next time. Bye.