# Episode 37 - Cheating and Your Partner Having Friends of the Opposite Sex

- Podcast: GenX Adulting Podcast
- Published: 2025-06-27T21:00:00.000Z
- Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/17410380-episode-37-cheating-and-your-partner-having-friends-of-the-opposite-sex.mp3
- Page: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/transcripts/podcasts/genx-adulting-podcast/episodes/episode-37
- Source: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/episodes/genxadultingpodcastepisode37.html
- People: Brian Barker (host), Nicole Barker (host)

## Summary

In this episode, the hosts discuss the complexities of cheating in relationships, emphasizing the importance of trust and boundaries, especially concerning friendships with the opposite sex. They share personal experiences and insights on how emotional connections can lead to infidelity and the significance of treating your partner as your best friend.

## Key takeaways

- Cheating is often a reflection of deeper emotional issues.
- Trust is crucial in a relationship; once broken, it is hard to rebuild.
- Having a best friend relationship with your partner can help prevent cheating.
- People often mask their true selves in relationships, which can lead to misunderstandings.
- Setting clear boundaries with friends of the opposite sex is important for maintaining trust.
- Communication is key; partners should openly discuss their needs and expectations.
- Cheating can have devastating effects on families and relationships.

## FAQ

### What are the main reasons people cheat?

People often cheat due to unmet emotional needs, lack of maturity, or deeper issues such as narcissism. It can also stem from a failure to communicate effectively with their partner.

### Is it okay for my partner to have friends of the opposite sex?

While some believe it's acceptable, the hosts argue that close friendships with the opposite sex can lead to complications and suggest that your best friend should be your partner.

### Can a relationship survive infidelity?

The hosts believe that infidelity often destroys trust and makes it difficult to maintain a healthy relationship, suggesting that many people cannot come back from cheating.

### How can couples prevent cheating?

Couples can prevent cheating by fostering a strong friendship, maintaining open communication, and setting clear boundaries regarding friendships with the opposite sex.

### What should I do if I suspect my partner is cheating?

It's important to communicate your concerns with your partner directly and honestly. Trust your instincts and discuss any feelings of insecurity or suspicion.


## Referenced links

- [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMw_kNYNX1c)
- [Listen on Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-37-cheating-and-your-partner-having-friends/id1764838823?i=1000714861413)
- [Listen on Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1V7Uuz4jOno1iyP3yP6WpH)
- [Listen on Buzzsprout](https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/17410380-episode-37-cheating-and-your-partner-having-friends-of-the-opposite-sex)

## Transcript

[Music]
Welcome to GenX Adulting and today we are
going to discuss cheating, boundaries in
a marriage or relationship when it comes
to the opposite sex.
And maybe touch on adult
friendships in general.
Cool.
So, I would like to put it out there that
in our 33 years together, 33 years
together, we've been, this September will
be 31 married, dating 32.
So 32 years together. Neither one of us
have cheated on each other.
Brian's smiling. Do you have a secret?
Not.
We have not cheated on each other.
So, we do not have experience with that
ourselves in our marriage.
We both did cheat in
relationships before we got married.
We were very young, of
course, in high school, college.
So that'd be teenager
and really early 20s.
I know I did.
And I think you did.
I plead the fifth.
Yeah, you don't.
We both had experience
with that, but we were young.
And I think that happens
a lot when you're young.
There's no excuse for it.
I don't, you know, and I definitely tried
to raise our kids to know that it's not
okay, but I think
it's definitely not okay.
Once you get married.
And if you're in a long-term
relationship, for sure.
I mean, I was going to qualify if you're
in like a partnership or marriage or, you
know, something more than just a fling or
a high school or
college kind of situation.
Yeah, that kind of thing.
But because I think cheating
does happen when you're young.
It's a lack of maturity.
Your frontal lobe hasn't closed.
You don't have as much impulse control.
You don't always make the best decisions.
Usually there's alcohol involved.
Yeah.
So, but once you make that commitment, I
mean, I know I told you before we were
even married, if you cheat, that's it.
I'm the type that if you
cheat, there's no forgiveness.
We're done because I can't trust again.
Once that trust is gone,
trust is so important to me.
And once that trust is
gone, you can't get that back.
And so that for me at the age of 22, I
knew that that would be
a game changer for me.
Did you actually tell me that?
Because I don't recall that because it
wasn't an issue, but was that a hard rule
at the time or something?
It was not that it's not a hard rule.
I don't mean it that way, but you
actually, was that like a
thing you recall telling me?
Yeah.
Okay. Yeah.
No, because my dad had cheated.
Like my dad was somebody who cheated on
his spouses and probably
anyone he was involved with.
And so I had a huge
stigma because of that.
And I knew if I was good, once I got
married, that was it.
And if my husband cheated on me, so I was
already coming into it with that
suspicion, that concern.
Right.
So I knew I wouldn't come back from it.
Yeah.
I don't think anyone really does.
I don't think so either.
Even if you stay in the marriage, I think
it's such a deep wound that I don't think
it ever fully heals.
And you're always suspicious and you can
never trust that person again.
And you cannot have a successful
marriage, an authentic marriage, an
authentic
relationship without 100% trust.
And I think a lot of that goes into where
I've gone back to, you need to be best
friends with your spouse or your partner.
Because when you are best friends,
there's just certain lines you will not
cross because you were treating that
person like a friend, like how you would
treat your best friend.
You know, it's funny you say that.
I meant to send you this,
send you this article earlier.
What some website I was on your site had
mentioned, it talked about the key to
long marriages and it was talking about
the foundation as a friendship.
Yeah.
The foundation of the
longer successful marriages.
So here's the thing.
People think that, you know, when you
have that feeling of you're in love and
you are feeling all those feelings and
it's just so intense and it's so
wonderful that that's
that's what that's your person.
That's your partner.
That's your soulmate.
But life is very long and there's a lot
of things that happen in life.
Eventually you lose your parents.
You could have severe tragedy happen.
Unexpected tragedy.
You could there's could be job loss.
There could be times when
you don't have any money.
There could be times when you have to
move away from your family.
So there's a lot that goes on in life.
If you have dogs, you whenever you lose
the dog, that's a horrendous experience.
That in love feeling is not enough.
It just is not enough.
You need to be best friends.
I can't stress that enough.
You need that best friend relationship to
get you through life together.
And of course you love that person.
And you can totally be
in love with that person.
I mean, you can be
that can go hand in hand.
You can be in love with the person, but
you need to make sure
you're also best friends.
It can't just be being
in love with the person.
So I think when you are in love with the
person and they're your
best friend, you don't cheat.
I just don't think you cheat because
cheating is one of those things that
could happen in life.
And you can't come back from that.
And that immediately destroys
a marriage and a relationship.
And I think that if you wouldn't treat
your best girlfriend or
best guy friend that way,
why would you treat your spouse that way?
Why would you treat
your partner that way?
You need to treat your partner as good as
you would treat your best girlfriend or
your best guy friend.
Better, better.
But so many times people treat their
spouse worse than they do their friends.
So I think it's just very important that
you have that friendship there.
Because I think if you have that true
friendship, that true
best friendship there,
you can't look the other person in the
eye if you've cheated.
I don't think you can.
I think if you're truly best friends, you
can't come back and live with yourself.
And so then that brings up,
okay, so why does someone cheat?
Why do men cheat?
If you were going to speculate on why men
cheat, you've never cheated.
So you're not coming at this from
personal experience.
But as a man, if you were to speculate,
why do you think men cheat?
I think there's that thing where I've
read or heard that men fall in love like
10 times a day type of thing.
And you know, especially
when you're younger, right?
If you're out and about, I don't know,
I'll make up bad examples, but you go to
the mall and you see a pretty girl.
It's like, oh my God, I love her.
And then you, you know, you're in Macy's.
Then you go to Nordstrom's or whatever
and you see another pretty girl.
Oh my God, I'm in love with her.
I think that's normal.
That's being attracted to someone.
But I, you cross the line for whatever
reason when you act on it and you start
to be, I don't know, acting on it, right?
But I don't know.
I don't know why, you know, there's all
those concepts or thoughts.
Is it power?
Is it ego?
Is it, you know, low self
esteem on the guy's part?
Is it, you know, you're proving
something, whatever it is.
I don't know.
I can only speculate, but because I
haven't, but you know,
I know I think it's ego.
I think a lot of it's ego.
I think that men who cheat have got to be
some form of narcissist in some way
because you're completely.
Focusing on your immediate wants and
needs over a life
you've built with someone.
But is it really right?
I think it almost, it probably is, but at
the same time, would you cheat on, say,
your soulmate or your best
friend type of thing, right?
Right.
So maybe, you know, you cheat.
You're always fishing and looking for
other options until you find the person
that is your person.
You're always your friend, your soul, you
know, all the
different terms you can use.
So do you think that people who cheat,
didn't marry the right one?
A hundred percent. Yeah.
Do you think that there's people that
will cheat no matter what?
Absolutely.
That will never be able to be committed.
A hundred percent.
So it goes, that's why I
think it's not just ego, right?
There are some deep,
deep rooted issues here.
Probably that's driving
the cheating behavior.
It's lack of faithfulness.
Really, it's lack of a connection.
Those type of things.
And that's why I say, I think there's
narcissism in there.
But why, if it's unhealthy, insecure, we
talked about attachment styles, right?
And if you're insecure, insecurely
attached from day one within your
primary, with your primary caregivers,
maybe that kind of carries you through
life in that, in that vein, in a sense.
Okay. So that now we're talking about
like where people come from their
childhood, their trauma, their issues and
all that that goes into play.
So.
So do you think people mask?
I think people, cause I always, I see
people sometimes say choose better,
choose better, but don't you think
everyone's putting on their best face?
And do you think men in particular put on
their best face and don't really show who
they are until well into a relationship,
until they really have gotten the person?
I think that it, that is a, it depends.
And I think it depends on when you get
together with say your future wife.
You and I got together in college. We
drove around the country for a few months
together. We lived together for a while.
So any, you know, imperfections we had,
whether they were physical, you know, a
pimple or whatever, right?
And then, um, blemishes to personality
quirks kind of got sorted out, right?
That's why I think we're both big
advocates of living with
someone before you get married.
And that's, I think it's a semi golden
role. You should definitely do that
because you'll figure
your shit out together.
I think if you meet up with someone later
in life that you don't
have much history on,
you know, you're going to have to be able to get a little bit of pressure around
your biological clock running.
That could be for both men and women,
right? Women have a more defined
biological clock than men.
But men also have one if they want to
kind of, you know, if to stay status quo,
I guess, in a sense.
Those are probably different. There's
lack of history, lack of bonding, lack of
growing up together.
My parents, you know, if my dad was still
alive, they would be married, I don't
know, a hundred years.
You know, 50, 60 years, whatever it is,
they got together young.
So I do think that depends
on, you know, the phase of life.
And there's the people who get together.
It's their second or
third marriage, right?
And some of those are extremely
successful because they've
kind of figured stuff out.
They've sorted through their issues. They
know what they want.
They're no longer marrying for some
unhealthy reason. It's
more a healthy connection.
So, I mean, I don't know.
Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. I just
think it's really tough.
I think if somebody is not being their
authentic self, then they mask when
they're looking for a partner.
They're almost being a chameleon. They're
being who they think they need to be for
that person to lure them in, bait them.
And I think with some personalities, they
can do that for a really long time.
Like, I think they can
do that for a year or two.
Do you, are you saying like the guy
that's doing that or the woman that
they're both doing it, right?
I think somebody is. I'm not saying
they're both necessarily doing it.
I'm saying in a given situation, there
could be masking going on.
And that's why I think if you tell people
choose better, a lot of people
think they are choosing well.
And then they don't realize who they
married until a couple of years later.
I see where you're going.
And then sometimes everything might be
fine because it's just
the two of them, right?
And so there's no huge challenges, but
then you bring
children into the situation.
And one of the people and in that
situation is probably a
guy, the guy, the man.
They don't like the pressures or the
stresses or now she's having to give
attention to the children and he doesn't
get as much attention.
And so then the mass comes off in that
situation, but that's a new situation he
was never presented with before.
So you almost when you're with someone in
a relationship, as life hits you with a
bunch of different ups
and downs and challenges,
you're kind of always growing together
and getting to know your
partner as life goes on,
because there's things that you go
through that neither one of
you have experienced before.
So there you could be shocked.
The person that you ended up with the way
they handled a situation could absolutely
blow your mind and
affect how you view them.
And one of those things, one
of those things is cheating.
And I think that there's people who get
married and think that their partner
would never ever cheat.
But there has been people who've had
whole other lives going on that have
managed two different relationships or
then on dating apps,
seeing multiple people and
holding down a solid relationship.
I cannot relate to that at all.
I can barely do what I'm doing in the
sense of the amount of time and the
energy and the commitment to
being part of a family unit.
How the hell do you live a double life?
That's beyond me.
But I think they're not as involved.
I think a lot of these people could be
traveling for work or they
always have to do something.
They're not home.
I just don't think they're home as much.
I think they've set the
tone right from the start.
I'm only going to be home this much
because it gives them freedom.
There's an out.
There's an out.
They always have an out.
They didn't start off committed in a
family person right from the start so
that there would always be that that
freedom, if that makes sense.
And then that goes back to so they aren't
with the right person because if you're
with the right
person, you want to be home.
You want to be with your children.
That's your first priority.
Right.
So if that's and that's what
brings me back to narcissism.
I really do think people who cheat are
narcissists because you aren't thinking
about anyone but yourself.
But you have everything you should be
thinking about in that time of your life.
You should be thinking about your spouse
or your partner and the
commitment you've made to them.
And if you've had children, you're
risking destroying an entire family.
Like I always say, I hope that that sex
was worth half of everything you make and
your children may be never speaking to
you again because that's it better be
that good because that's what you have
the potential to lose.
I mean, it better be the best thing ever.
Yeah.
You know, and because obviously they
don't care about losing their spouse
because they're willing to risk that.
But you're willing to risk your
children's respect and how they view you
because once your children know you
cheated on their mom or their dad, your
children will never look
at you the same way again.
Ever.
Yeah, probably.
The respect is gone.
So I don't know if that's true.
I don't know if the respect is gone.
It does change.
Right.
So, you know, this is a dynamic change,
but you know, you could probably explain
yourself out of most things to your
children because they, you know, they
kind of, they look up to you so much
until it's really gone off the rails.
Right?
But while they're still say younger or
impression impressionable, you could
probably work that a little bit.
I don't know.
I think kids are smart and especially,
you know, what if they're teenagers,
middle schoolers when this happens?
Well, a lot of times I think the cheating
spouse will blame the other
parent for whatever reason.
They'll make shit up if they have to,
right? Or they'll have their case.
They always have their
reason and the case for why.
And yeah, I don't know.
Okay. So let me ask you this is there's
been, there's been men,
I'm going to speak on with
about men in this situation.
There's men who say I cheated because I
wasn't getting it at home.
Mm hmm.
I think that's insane to say,
but I think that's an insane.
Okay. So in my mind, what if
it's like a five year drought?
Okay. Okay. But in my
mind, there should be therapy.
Like they should be attending therapy.
If you're talking a five year drought,
but let's be real, that's not what it is.
Okay. So guys would have every day,
right? Every day, maybe
multiple times a day, if they could.
Let's be real. We all know that. And
women aren't as interested in as men
because not just because
they are carrying so much and so much
stress. And if a woman is
stressed out and burnout,
I'm sorry, it's just not at the top of
her list. But biologically in general,
they're not as ready
to go as men are. So a man could be like,
I wasn't getting it at
home. Meaning for a lot of guys,
it could be like, I was only getting it
twice a week. But like,
there's all this life going on.
So but if it really mattered to him, if
that was really it, then he
should love her and care about
her and treat her like a best friend and
talk to her about it and
say, look, this is really
important to me. And we need to talk
about this, what's going on instead of
going out and cheating
on her. What if they've tried that and it
doesn't work out, then
there's no happy medium. Okay, so if
you try and try and try, and you've
you've done everything,
you've tried to talk to her, you've
tried to go to therapy, whatever, then
you you get out of the relationship or
the marriage, you don't
cheat. Okay, so that's where you're gonna
draw the line is you just
don't cheat. If it's that bad,
then move on. Yes, and dissolve the
marriage. You never cheat.
Yeah. Okay. There's no excuse
for cheating. Yeah. So if it's, but I
just think that's such a cop out saying
because then you're,
when you say it's because you weren't
getting in at home. He's
flipping it and blaming her. He's
he's put accountability under her. I
don't I'm not trying to take the
contrarian opinion here and
defend men. Yeah, no, it could be true.
And what's your point? I think your
answer is a good one.
It's like you try you've tried to figure
it out. Yeah. And if you
can't then move on. Yeah, you
know, and you're just not compatible and,
you know, move on. And community,
communicate, communicate.
But here's another thing, though. I do
think when you're dating and
together, and if the person
cheats while you're dating, that's crazy.
You should not marry that
person. Yeah. And if you
stay with that person, and then they
cheat again, it's like, come on. So and
I, so I think whoever
that happens to, if it's a man or a
woman, you you're responsible for your
reaction to that and
your decision making. If you choose to
marry someone who's
cheated on you, then you know,
there's a high chance they're going to
cheat on you. Well, I
agree. If there's pre marriage
cheating, there should not be a marriage.
Right. You just don't get
married. But what about what
is your thoughts on if someone cheats
while in the marriage?
What do you do there? I'm I my
guess is you'll say counseling and see
what you can work out. But
well, no, no, no, I would leave.
I'm done. I'm done. There's no coming
back for me personally. I'm going to say
my opinion. There is
no coming back from cheating. There's no
coming back from it. It's
the ultimate betrayal. So I
understand that for me for you. But you
know, I mean, I think I mean,
there's a lot of people that
do they'll go to counseling. I don't know
what they do, to be honest, because I
can't even fathom it.
I just don't think there you've killed
all the trust in the
friendship and in the marriage and
in the relationship. There is no more
trust. Because let me ask
you this quick question. Now,
I think I have a feeling I know your
perspective here. But
cheating. What if it's a there's I
do you think there's a difference between
a relationship,
cheating while you're married,
and you're you have this second life
going on versus man, I just
drank too much and woke up
next to someone. And I don't know what
the hell happened. What's
your you know, that's a there
two scenarios. I'm not saying ones, you
know, either or but so
you're talking about like a one
night stand. Yeah, one night stand that
you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like maybe you blacked out or
something or you know, I mean, I feel
like I couldn't come back
from that. Yeah. But I could
see why some people might I mean, I could
see why it depends on your
situation, you know, especially
if financially you can't leave. For us to
take finances out of
it. Do you think that's
a good thing's fine. Yeah, there's a
couple things you know,
one is choose better. I don't
think that's totally fair. I think that's
semi flippant. But I get
it. I think if you take the
finances out of it too, right? Because
that is, that's harder to
navigate. I'm just saying your
emotional attachment to the to your
spouse. I don't I don't
think I think even when you're
drunk. Well, you know, they say drunk
words are true are true
words, right? But I think even when
you're drunk, you should I you should
know to not do that. I think
even I think when you're drunk,
typically is when you call or text the
person that you want to
be with, right? That's when
you actually think about the person you
want to be with. So if
you're drunk and do it,
because if you're saying blacked out,
like, they're just laying there and
basically got raped by,
let's say it's a guy, and a woman just
like, had sex with him. I
mean, that's different if he's
passed out or something. But if you're
talking about just like a
drunk guy, I think a drunk guy
would would know that he should not be
doing that. Yeah, absolutely. I think a
drunk guy would know
and a drunk girl. Yeah, I'm sorry. I
shouldn't just focus on
guys. A drunk girl would know she
shouldn't be doing that either. I've been
a drunk girl. And I when I was a
teenager, I cheated as a
drunk girl. And I knew what I was doing.
You know, it's not like
you lose your drug. I mean,
if you're roofied. Sure. Yeah, but that
doesn't count. No, no, no,
I think I just I think when
it comes to cheating, there's just no
coming back from it. But again, I know
that's a very strong
opinion. But I don't think it is. But I
know for some people, it
feels that way. But I think
you're right. I think the the choose
better is flippant. I think that's
insulting to say to people,
I think that you're taking the horrible
thing that the other person did, the
accountability of that
and putting it on the victim, the person
who is victimizing the
situation. It's a victim shaming,
shifting the blade, shifting the blade
accountability. Yeah.
And that can go both ways.
Yeah. If it was a man who cheated, and
you're telling these women
choose better. And if it's
a guy, a woman who cheated, and you're
telling this guy choose
better people mask and they,
if they're not being authentic, they're
masking. Well, I was gonna
go back to that is that's part
of the flippancy of it is people do mask.
Yeah. So it's like, I thought I was
choosing great. This
guy. Yeah, girl was wonderful. Yeah. And
all of a sudden, they're an
asshole. And they can that
can go on for like a year or two. And
just like what I said, it can
be fine if it's just the two
of them. But when you bring children into
it, sometimes that's what triggers
people's narcissism.
And, and like, how so what do you mean?
There's a this says go about
men. There's the men who are
fine when it's the two of them. But as
soon as they have children, they do not
like that they're not
getting as much attention anymore,
because the children are taking her
attention away. Or maybe
they're not having sex as much anymore,
because the children needs,
you know, her needs and all
that. So they get resentful. And they're
almost pouting and having
a temper tantrum. Because
they're not getting the attention instead
of viewing it as we're
partners, we're a mom and dad,
now we're a family, we're going to share
this responsibility. This
is a beautiful thing. Look
at what we created. Let's raise this
child together. No,
there's men who look at it as
that's taking time away from me. And that
is narcissism. And I
think there's a lot of men who
the women didn't know he was going to be
like that, how would you
until you had children? Yeah. And
then the women are like, Wait a minute, I
thought you were going to
be this great dad, but you're
just mad because you're not getting my
attention anymore. And I think that
happens. And you say you
can't tell that woman choose better. How
was she supposed to know he
was going to react like that?
Yeah, yeah. That's not crazy. Honestly,
that's a crazy dynamic
because it may it got me thinking
as you were saying it, it's like, well,
how the hell do you solve this at a
societal level? Where
you go to like, I mean, there's probably
pre marriage classes,
right? But do they go into
this stuff? I doubt it. I don't know. And
then there's there's people that
naturally manipulate.
You know, I think you should. Well, this
goes back to what we've
talked about in previous episodes.
You have got to talk about how you guys
see roles before you ever get
married. And you really have
to talk and talk and talk about it
because you have to get a
real feel from that person. Okay.
Do they really want kids? Do they really
want to raise children with me?
Or are they just more into being with me?
And, and the idea of
having kids, because that's what
you're supposed to do. Or it's the image
of having kids. If that's
what you want it if the woman
wants that. I don't know, though, there's
no guarantees. And
that's probably one of the
reasons why there is such high divorce
rate. Yeah, because I think also people
buy into the wedding,
the fantasy of the wedding and the party
and the being married
and, and that, that blip,
that blip of this beautiful, the
engagement, and the shower and the
wedding and newlyweds and all
of it is a blip in marriage. It is so
quick. Life is marriage. Life is
marriage. That whole
time that year, whatever of the planning
and the fun, that's great.
That's not marriage. Yeah.
You have to be able to do marriage with
the person. And marriage is hard. And
marriage is awesome.
And marriage can get ugly. And marriage
is the most beautiful thing
that you will ever experience.
So you better make sure you're marrying
your best friend. And you
better make sure that you can
trust that person 100%. Because it's,
it's not always easy. And
you can't have someone that's
going to be like, uh, and then go cheat
on you. Yeah. Well, I
think what's interesting too,
though, is it is permanent, right? If, if
the very thing lines up, it's
permanent. And you think about
how much you've changed and evolved
individually over the years, as in in
within your marriage
and professionally and your external
family. And if you have kids, the
different phases you go through
and there's no, I think honestly, it's
modeled behavior in my
mind, right? We've talked about
that where, you know, you've asked, I
think, why, why is it, why
don't you cheat? It's like,
it's modeled behavior. My dad didn't
cheat. I had uncles around. None of them
cheated. My cousins,
they're all still married. So I think
that helps quite a bit.
It's modeled behavior.
Look at my upbringing, though. Like my
dad did cheat. Yeah. And, but
it made me so serious about,
I'm not, I'm not going to cheat. And my
husband better not cheat.
Yeah. So I think it could be
modeled behavior, but also if there's
that bad behavior, it'll either that
person may model that
bad behavior or do the exact opposite
because of the trauma it caused them. So,
I mean, I just think
that, well, here's a point. So, cause you
said something interesting there. You
said it's permanent.
That's such a great marriage is
permanent. It's supposed
to be marriage is permanent.
And it is supposed to be. So if you want
to be married, not
everyone wants to be married
and that's so fine. But if you want to be
married, it's
permanent. Well, I think too,
the worst talking marriage, but there's
people who have life
partnerships that don't get married
to your point. And I think that's
perfectly fine. It feels
like it's more common now.
And that's all good. Yeah. And it's, but
those, the dynamics of those,
I wonder if they're different
at all. I don't think so. It feels like,
you know, it's not like,
Oh, we're, we have this open
marriage, this open relationship. No, I
don't think they do. There's open
marriages too. Right. But
those lifelong partnerships, the same
rules probably apply. I
would think so. I would think
they just don't feel they, it's not
important to them to take
that next step, but they have
just as much of a authentic, permanent
relationship as people who are married.
But when you look at
them, I think if you really, if people
start to understand or
really view it, that this is a
permanent decision you're making. This is
a lifelong commitment.
You're going to do all kinds
of things together. You really do need to
make sure you're okay.
Like if obviously you should
be marrying your best friend and you love
your best friend and you're
in love with your best friend,
but let's look at the sexual part of it.
I think for women, women
are more okay, sexually
committing to one person for the rest of
their life. I think for
men, some men, that permanence,
they could struggle with that knowing
that they're not going to
have sex with any other women
for the rest of their life. That's a huge
decision. I would
assume for a guy, am I wrong?
Am I wrong? Like, do you know what I
mean? Yeah, I don't. I
do, but I don't know.
Pondering that though. Like pondering
that as a guy. Do you think that guys
understand that when they're getting
married? Or do they think, do you think
some guys think, well,
what I would say is I think, like I'm
saying is marriages and
people evolve over time.
And that's something you can look back
on. It's something I could
look back on now that we've
been together for so long. And it's
something you think about
when you first get into it,
but it doesn't totally resonate or sink
in. Right. So this is
the, I guess, an interesting
concept here, but at the beginning of the
marriage, you have to
have a decent sex life.
Should be pretty robust because that's
about as good as it's ever going to get.
And so if that's a, that's maybe the tip
off. If it's, if, if there's
a drought in the beginning,
it may not be, there's a compatibility
issue probably. For
sure. It will never, ever get
better than say the first five to 10
years or something. And a
lot of that's because there
isn't as much stress, responsibility,
life, money, family bills,
all of that, the stress of it.
So that time, yeah, you should be pretty
much like, Oh, rabbits. Yes.
Okay. But that still doesn't go back to
my question of, do you
think that when men get married,
they're consciously like, okay with,
they're truly okay in
their soul. This is the only
woman I'm going to have sex
with for the rest of my life.
I don't know. I, I don't know if it
really sinks in or not, or
yeah. Yeah. They're fine.
You know what I mean? It's like, if you
think about it and you still jump in and,
and you know, like if you know, you know,
right? If it's the,
if it's the one that's,
if she's the one or he's the one, they're
the one. Okay. So it's fine. And then,
but you don't necessarily, you, none of
us are, I mean, we got
married as kids, right? Most people,
we got married as kids. Right. And I
don't know. I think of, you
know, I've reached the age now
where if you're under 30, I think you're
a kid. Right. So I'm totally
skewed, I guess, but we did
get married at 23. It was very young.
Yeah. We were, we were
young. We were very, we have grown
up together. I just wonder if, and the,
if, if some men haven't
truly contemplated that,
that when you're making this decision to
commit to your wife,
you're committing that she's the
only one you're going to have sex with
for the rest of your life.
And I wonder if subconsciously
some men keep that little out like, wow,
there could always maybe
be a moment in the future.
Yeah. I think we all do hold on to like,
there may be something may
happen. Who knows? Right.
As rational as that is. It's like, who
knows? Right. Right. That
something could happen. Yeah.
And, and so then you could have sex with
other people. I'm 35
years in and it's like,
I don't know. Is this it? Okay. If it is,
it is. If not. And yet you haven't
cheated. Yeah. Yeah.
But then like, would you say the reason
you haven't other than model behavior?
What would you say is the number one
reason you haven't cheated?
Uh, I, I think it's, uh, um, I think it's
the model behavior. I think
it's just, it is what it is.
Like I don't, you know, I just wouldn't
do that. I don't, I
don't have an interest in it.
I wouldn't want to do that to you. You
know, it's start, it's
an okay. Here's the, uh,
I'm trying to ponder this wall and
answering it, but I
think you start out with,
I wouldn't do that to you because we're
friends. We're, we're buddies, right?
You're my girl and we're buddies and
we've chosen to take this
life on together, right?
And then you get into it and it's like,
well, now I've got kids and I wouldn't
disrespect their mom
to, you know, I just wouldn't disrespect
their mom. I wouldn't want them to ever
look down upon you because I'm an asshole
and treat you like shit.
That I think goes a long ways.
But it's just not a
thing. Does that make sense?
That makes sense. And I think that's very
interesting. What you said,
you wouldn't want them to look down upon
me because of the way
you would be disrespecting
me by doing that. I've never thought
about that before. Cause I
would more think you wouldn't
want them to look down on you for doing
that, but you're right.
Kids do their respect for their
parent can also, they, they have that
modeled behavior. And if
the father is treating the mom
horribly, sometimes the children cross
those lines too, because that's what's
going on in the home.
There's, I don't think the kids should
ever have to come to the
rescue of one of their parents.
From one of their parents. Now that's not
to say they won't pick
sides if you're fighting.
If we get into a good one, they may pick
sides. Yeah. And that
that's just natural. Yeah.
But to, I don't know if I don't know
where I'm going with that,
but I don't know if that makes
sense. If to kind of, you would have,
you'd be setting the
tone. Yeah. Yeah. This is,
I don't respect your mom enough to not
cheat on her. So you're
almost setting the tone of,
why do I have to respect her either?
Yeah. Now I think it could flip. I think
in certain situations, the kids can
become more protective of
the mother. Yeah. And, and I do
think the kids have issues with the
father when they do that
either way. But yeah, I hadn't
thought about that before. Well, let me
ask you this. We're talking
about men cheating. Why do
women cheat? It's, I don't know if it's
quite a 50 50 split here,
but women cheat on men too.
And, and it's an issue. So I think in my,
my opinion is I think when women cheat,
they cheat emotionally first. I think
that there's something
going on in the relationship
that they're not getting from their
partner. Maybe he's been an avoidant
once, once in many years.
Maybe he is disconnected emotionally from
her. Maybe he hasn't
given her attention in years.
He's not treating her like she's his best
friend. He's not seeing her.
She feels completely ignored. So I think
that in certain situations, if the right
guy comes along and sees her and is, you
know, friendly and
fills that emotional void,
I think that's what gets women way before
a physical cheating
situation. I think it's an
emotional cheating situation. I take
issue with that because the
one thing you didn't say is
female narcissism, right? We're saying
men are narcissists,
but women can be too. Yes,
absolutely. And then everything you just
said, all those
reasons for why the woman,
the woman cheats versus the man, why
can't they apply to the men
as well? They can. Okay. They
can. No, that can be, that can go both
ways where the woman ignores
the man and doesn't acknowledge
anything that he has been doing. Doesn't,
you know, make him feel
valuable or all the things
men want to feel from their partner. It
can go both ways. And
there are female narcissists
who will cheat and don't give a crap at
all. But in general, in
general, I think men cheat
physically and women cheat emotionally.
So I think that if she is
not getting her emotional needs
met, and we're talking over time, because
a woman typically will hang
in there for years trying to
get that. But eventually there's like
nothing there. And if the
right situation swoops in,
and another guy gives her that attention,
then that leads to a
physical cheating. Yeah. But
typically she's emotionally cheated
first, because typically
women lead with their heart.
Um, but men, I think are much easier to
cheat physically. And I think there's men
who love their partner, love their wives,
truly love their family, and can go cheat
and feel nothing for the women they're
cheating with. It's to
them, it's truly a physical act.
And maybe don't even really have a lot of
guilt over it, because
their emotions are still tied
to their partner. But it's still so
messed up because you're, you're
completely disrespecting
your partner, your friend by cheating on
her. So you think you're
giving her what she deserves
emotionally, but you're still completely
lying to her and betraying
her. So it's very interesting.
But I mean, in general, I think women
cheat to answer your
question, because their emotional
needs are not getting met. Yeah, they're
being ignored. I just wonder too, though,
I really feel like for a men too, it's,
you know, there's got to be
something deep rooted there
that is not met emotionally as well. To
drive them in, it could be
narcissism, it could be that
simple, but it, and it just could be a
biological thing, right? Where you like
to hunt and, you know,
well, what type of thing? I don't know.
What's that saying men like
the strange? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
And they want something new. Yep. And
there's some men that I think get
married. And I think
there's men who get married that don't
want to get married, you know, and so,
but I think there's men
that get married. And after a while,
they're like, no, I want to
have sex with someone else. I do
think there's situations like that. Yeah.
And those guys should not
have gotten married. Those guys
should be lifelong bachelors. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. But you never know
what situation family wise or
whatever. Okay. So let me ask you this.
If in a relationship, like
we're talking a long-term
relationship and especially in a
marriage, do you think that your partner
should be have best friends
that are the opposite sex? No, no, I
think that's silly. Yeah. So you don't
think that there's ever
a time where the wife can have a best
friend who's a guy or the
husband or the guy can have a best
friend who's a girl. Do you think there's
ever a situation where
that's acceptable? To me, no,
no, but I can wrap my head around that
being a thing. But for me
personally, no, no, because
your best friend should be your partner.
Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I
kind of, you know, I feel
like I've either seen this in movies like
Hallmark or something, or,
you know, you read about,
I don't know. It feels like it exists.
And I don't know if it's completely
terrible and wrong or not,
you know, but at the same time, it's not
my thing. If you're
talking about a Hallmark movie,
the best friend, if it's the best friend,
usually they end up to get
no, I don't think there's ever
a situation where the partner, like the
husband should have a best
friend who's a woman and the
wife should have a best friend who's a
guy. What if it's, what if
one of them is gay? So the woman
has a best friend who's a man who's gay.
I think that's fine. Yeah.
Right. I think that's totally
fine. Yeah. Cause you, there's no threat
there. Yeah. You removed
the threat. Truly platonic.
Because if you're, if you're that close
with the opposite sex,
it's, there's a high chance it's
going to grow into something. Yeah. And
also I go back, whatever
you're getting from that person,
you should be getting from your spouse. I
think, I think your spouse
should be your best friend.
So, okay. So what about, what about just
having friends that are the opposite sex?
Do you maybe like go out with and do
things with, no, I don't think that works
either. I've thought
about this, right? Cause we, we talked
about this a little bit the
other day, the only opposite
sex friends that I have are coworkers and
their work friends. It is truly a
professional friendship
and they're, I have pretty good friends,
you know, female friends that
I've worked with for years that
I respect. But it's, it's wonderful thing
because there's a natural boundary. Yeah.
So it's a wonderful thing. It protects
everybody. And, and I would
say that you've had friends
because of parents of our kids friends.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like
you've, when it's couples,
that's different. Yeah. And usually it's
because it's the kids
friends, parents and all that.
I'm good with that, but there's no
sidebar like, Hey, let's
go get ice cream together.
Yeah. No. Well, you know, that's not out.
And even in that situation, boundaries
should always be held.
A hundred percent. In those situations,
when you have couples hanging out,
it's very easy for boundaries to get
across. I'm big on that. And
I know some people are gonna
be like, Oh my God, you know, you're
threatened or it's not that it's a
respect thing. And I do
believe that whatever you're getting or
need should be from your
partner. You and your partner should
be friends. So you should not need to be
friends with the opposite
sex. Now you can be friendly.
And, but it's not like they're your
friend. You're going to go do
things with them. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. You're doing things with your
partner or a couple situation or work
people. Yeah. But I don't
think there's ever, you know, like if a
guy says, excuse me, Oh,
well, she's just my best friend.
It's like, no, no, that's a red flag in
my eye. No, there's no,
no way. No, I agree. To me,
that's not a thing. No, just not a thing.
I think that's asking for
trouble. Yeah. So I think once
you get together and you're in a serious
relationship or
you're in a marriage, that
privilege, I guess, of having friends of
the opposite sex, like
close friends of the opposite
sex, where you do things with them, I
think that that needs to be let go
because your best friend
is your, is your spouse. I think that
happens early on before you
get married. That stuff should
get sorted out. Yeah. But I don't know if
it always does. Yeah,
maybe not. So, but that goes to
how hard do you think it is for once
you're an adult to make friends?
I have no friends, so I have no idea. It
must be really hard. Oh,
you mean of the opposite sex?
No, in general, in general, like, do you
think that it's like, it's mainly
when you have kids, it's mainly parents
of your, your kids friends?
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think you have
work friends. Yeah. Like I have a group,
good group of guys I work with that I,
you know, I really like. And
yeah, and as we, some, you know,
other people, if they've moved away to
other companies to stay
in touch and I think that's
all good. I don't, I don't, once a woman
leaves though, I, that
to me, I don't have any
female coworker friends who've moved on
to other things that
I've stayed in touch with.
So just the guys, just the guys. Yeah. So
I think as you're going through life,
you, your friends are work and like
friends from college or
high school. Yep. Yep. And then
parents of your kids friends. Yep. I
think that's it, right? Yeah. No, I was
going to add that. Yeah.
It's like your coworkers, your friends of
the, your kids parents or
the parents of your kids
friends. Yeah. And then it is your high
school and college friends
that you've chosen to stay
in touch with and social media has helped
significantly with
that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
I mean, honestly, I think they're your
best friends still. Cause
there's at least for me.
And it's not like I see them, right?
We're 3000 miles away
from most people we know. Um,
maybe not that far, 2000 miles, but I,
if, when you see them again, it's like,
it's like an old glove and it just fits
and you just slide
right in and it's all good.
The ones you've chosen to keep in your
life. Yeah. Not just, not the
acquaintances and stuff,
but like the actual real friends. Yeah.
Yeah. And then maybe if you do stuff like
belong to like a tennis team or golfing,
you know, those people become friends,
but I do think that friendships as you're
an adult friendships are
situational. And to your point,
the ones you made that you choose to stay
in touch with from
high school or college,
or maybe your twenties years, those are
ones that were truly made
and based in friendship,
but then the others you meet either
through work or through your kids.
Well, think about that, right? So people
that you're friends with,
and I'm not even saying best friends,
just people you would consider friends,
maybe they're Facebook friends. And if
you happen to go to
their city, you hook up.
Right. If they happen to be down here,
you see each other,
hook up, hook up, hook up.
But where I'm going with that is you
know, their parents, you
know, when, so some of the people
I know, I knew their parents, I know
their brothers and sisters might've gone
to a family barbecue.
So I know their uncles are weird, uncle,
weird, aunt type of
thing, their grandparents.
It's just, you know, yeah, that's a, a
permanence that just last decades.
But then it makes me wonder, like, there
are people who are huge
extroverts and wherever they go,
they talk to people. They, if they're at
a restaurant, if
they're at a bar, if they're
traveling, whatever they're doing, their
past time is talking to
people and like making friends.
So I don't, I think that part of that is
also if you're an
extrovert or an introvert,
and how settled you are with the people
in your life. And I
think if you're introverted,
you're fine with your like circle,
little, your small circle,
the people that you trust,
and your family, you know, your family,
whoever you choose. But I
think if you're an extrovert,
you're constantly collecting people.
Yeah, maybe. And I think that might be
the difference. Because,
and there's that neither way is right or
wrong. It's just, there
are people that are always
making new friends, making new friends,
making new friends. And then
there's people that I think
that can cause them anxiety. Yeah. And
they're like, No, I know
these people. And I trust these
people. And I vetted these people. I only
have so much time in my
life. These are the people I'm
choosing to give my time to. And that
works for them. Yeah. But for the
extroverts, they're like,
wherever we go, we're gonna make friends.
Yeah. And so part of
me wonders if it's like,
making friends as adults, it really
depends on your fear, an
extrovert or an introvert.
I think that 1000% does. Yeah. Yeah. And
then if you're a couple
and you're both introverts,
yeah, then you're like, No, we're good.
Yeah. And so it works. And
if you're both extroverts,
I mean, I know you're an introvert. Like
one of your biggest
nightmares is if we is going on a
cruise, you would never want to go on a
cruise. It will never happen in my
lifetime. Because you
you're afraid you don't want to talk to
people and you don't want
to have to run into the same
people night after night. You don't want
to make friends. It's an
interesting thing because, you
know, we were we did that boat thing. And
I did a lot of talking with
the captain when you went out
with the boys. Yeah, yeah. You had a boys
weekend this past weekend
with our sons. I did a lot of
talking with the captain in the first
mate. And so you could say I was an
extrovert. Right. Right.
Well, okay, you're an interesting
introvert. I probably am.
Because you have no desire
to really spend time with anyone. But
you're, you're like, when
you're out in the yard working,
you talk to everyone, you waved everyone.
And in like in a situation
where if you're in a small
setting, a small group of people, you
will be one of the more extroverted
people. But you don't seek
that out. No. But if it happens, you're
very friendly and very
open. But only if it's like,
it perfectly falls in your lap. I
wouldn't say that. But just to be clear
on the waving to everybody,
my theory, my, my, my thought there is if
they're looking, if I'm outside and
they're looking at me,
I'm gonna wave. Yeah. But force the
issue. Yeah, it's kind of funny. Yeah.
Because then they'll
either look away or they'll wave. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. Then we become friends. But
you've been the first
to say you would be fine living on a
bunch of property. And it was
just you and me and the kids
and dogs. And you wouldn't need to
associate with anyone else. Correct. I
need women in my life.
Yeah, I cherish the women in my life. I
think women should have
women friends. I'm a huge girls
girl. Super pro women. And but I'm
talking like my quality friends. I'm not
the type where I want
like 30 female friends or women friends.
I have my group. I trust
them. And that's my girls that I
need. I need that for balance. And I
think all all women should have at least
one female best friend.
And I'm not just talking where we live
here. I have, I have friends from the
past from college from
that I've known through the years. And I
cherish them. And I stay in
touch with them. So I don't
think I could go and live on a bunch of
property, unless I can
still have my, you know, once or
twice a month night out with my girls.
And then I'd be fine. Yeah,
but I have I have to have that I
couldn't be somewhere where I can't I
don't have access to go spend time with
the women in my life.
Yeah. So but I know you don't really feel
that need. Well, it is
different as you're talking
through that I I'm on the phone quite a
bit, right? I work from
home. Yes. And I'm on the phone
most of the day, nearly all of the day.
Yeah, one after another.
And, and I do start my day with
talking to the same people pretty much
every day. And I like it, I, you know, I
get a lot out of that.
So I don't know if I'm a total introvert.
And I it's an
interesting concept, because
do I when Friday night rolls around, if
we don't leave the house
until never, I'm good. Right? I
don't even need to go to Home Depot or
Lowe's or anything. I'm
good. But I do get fulfillment,
you know, however passive or active it is
in just my daily life,
interacting with people. Yeah,
I think that your social battery is burnt
by Friday. Because you've
been on the phone talking
with people. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean,
but you also are not big
on going out to dinner.
I don't know. You've always hated it.
Yeah, you've always pushed
back. It's not anything going out.
It's not something you enjoy your idea of
being home is, whereas through the years,
by the time Friday would come, I had been
home with the kids and I
wanted to get out. Yeah. And
you'd been out at work. Yeah. And you
wanted to stay home. And I'm
sure that happens to couples.
Oh, yeah. Where we have opposite needs by
the time Friday comes.
Yeah. And at that point,
there was some battle there was battling
the I always said I'd have to do like a
PowerPoint presentation two weeks before
I'd want to go out just to get you.
So but I think that is interesting, you
know, just how friendships ebb
and flow, but I still go back
to no matter what. I don't think that
anyone should be again, my
opinion. I don't think anyone
should be close with the opposite sex. I
just think it's it's
inappropriate. I just I think
it's dangerous, you know, yeah, too many
opportunities for maybe
some unintended consequences or
misunderstandings, boundaries getting
crossed. You know, I think
that is part of marriage is
protecting it. Right. Yeah. And if you
cherish it, then you don't
want to expose it to any risk.
And it's not a thing like of trust. It's
just that. So what what
what are you not getting from
your partner that you think you need from
this other person? And
I'm not talking about
acquaintance stuff like we went out to
dinner with couples.
I'm talking about like,
where you're on the phone talking to
someone for like an hour. Why
do you need to talk to someone
of the opposite sex on the phone? Yeah.
If it's not work related, it
doesn't make any sense to me.
I cannot think of a scenario where that's
remotely appropriate or
I'm not even approved. Right.
I'm yeah, you know, but no, there's not
some I don't know, hard, you
know, died in the world type
of hardcore person here. No, it's totally
inappropriate. No,
you shouldn't be meeting
someone for coffee to talk with them. No,
that unless it's like work
related or school related.
But no, that that's that is that's what
I'm talking about. Those
boundaries have to be set.
So well, if you think about that, right.
So here's probably why
I'm not into it. When you
when you think about that, when you first
start to get get together with someone,
those are the things you do. You maybe go
get coffee. You maybe go
get dinner. Maybe you go
get a drink. Maybe you go for a walk.
Right. Those are the activities. Yeah.
That you are part of the
courtship or courting phase. Yeah. Right.
And then over time, that
continues to evolve and stuff.
So if you're doing that, you're getting
some juvenile romantic fee. You know,
I'm saying it. Yes, there's something
happening there that's not completely
altruistic. And that
other person could feed a part of your
ego, that it could then open
the door of comparing. Well,
this person makes me feel this way, where
your partner could be
exhausted from life, and isn't
going to look at you and be like, Oh,
you're so wonderful, because
maybe they just got done with
a meeting for two hours or cleaning the
bathroom, or who knows what's going on.
So you it's not fair
to compare this fresh perspective to
somebody that you're doing
life with. Yeah. Because when
you're married, you're doing life. Yeah,
it's a fluid, active thing
that requires work. And it's
awesome. But it's, it's not some, it's
something you have to honor
and cherish. And I think that's
probably in the vows. But I mean, for
real, you have it's just setting those
boundaries as part of
that. And that brings us back to you just
never cheat. You just
can't cheat. Yeah, it's just,
it's not going to come back. It's not
worth it. And I will go back, make sure
if you're going to do
that, that that experience is worth your
money, and your time with
your children. Because that's
what you're training, and you're losing
your partner. So that
experience better be that valuable,
bringing you that much joy. Because you
literally are losing your
partner, access to your children,
and at least half your money. I actually
think your other
perspective is probably a little
better in that. Just move on. If you're
gonna cheat, just move on.
Yeah, you know, just move on.
Oh, yeah, no. And the relationship. Yeah.
Yeah. But there's too
many people that want both.
Yeah, but they want they want the they
want, let's speak for men.
They want the wife at home,
that's taking care of their children or
the wife, not necessarily
at home, but the wife and the
mother of their children. And they want
to still be able to go and
get some on the side. There's a
lot of men like that. Yeah. There's a lot
of men that want both. And I
think it amazes me that they
have the energy to pull all of it off.
Well, there is the concept
of marrying a virgin. And,
you know, protecting that, that I don't
know what the right word
would be. But, you know,
almost putting that person on a pedestal
while you're out doing your debauchery.
Yes. Right. That is a
thing. Oh, I think there's men who have
that. Yeah. It's called the Madonna
complex. Why what's the
Madonna? It's like the Virgin Mary type
complex, you know, where
she's just pure. She's the mother
and the wife. Yeah. But you're going to
go do all your other stuff.
No, I think there's a there's
definitely that still goes on for sure.
Yeah. And that might that
might maybe will end in our
generation. I don't know if the younger
generations men subscribe to
that at all, but I know men in
our generation for sure. It's an
interesting thing just to tie it back to
a generational podcast.
The what's the millennials? Yeah. I
wonder if that's as big of a
thing. This is more of a boomer
thing that got gets, you know, isn't as
prolific in the Gen X. The Madonna
complex. No, no, no.
The just men cheating or women cheating
the, the, you know, you mean like are the
millennials cheating?
Yeah. I wonder if there's a statistical
variance between the
generations on and how that all pans
out. I don't know. I mean, I know that
somebody is a listener. Yeah. Yeah. I
know. I know just from
what I researched with the whole dating
apps thing. I think
there's a lot of really sketchy
stuff that goes on, but I don't know if
once they get married and
settle down and commit, if there's
cheating, cheating on it, because you're
right. I mean, in Gen X, there's
definitely is a lot of
cheating. You know, it's funny too. You,
you know, I, everybody, I don't know too
many guys that cheat
in my world. It's just not a thing. I
don't think men tell
each other when they cheat.
I just think that I'm pretty confident
that guys, at least the guys
I work with, right. And we've
talked about, well, yeah, they're right.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. So their it, okay. So
yeah, there's women that I've seen on
social media that say, where are the guys
that are going to be
loyal? Where are the guys that aren't
going to cheat? Where are
the guys that are going to be
good husbands and good fathers? And it's
the nerds. It's the nerds.
So you're calling me a nerd.
Yes. Get out of here. No, it's the nerds.
It's the nerds. The nerds are the ones
that are going to be
loyal husbands, wonderful fathers, good
providers, because a
lot of them are in it.
Um, and that's, you know, I'm not saying
that the other guys
aren't those things either,
but a nerd is pretty reliable. You know,
you can, you can trust the
nerd. Although there is that
risk of the nice guy nerd who seems like
a great guy and then he ends
up being psychotic or crazy
or mean or thinks he's this big high
value man. And, you know, it's like
nothing like you thought,
but in general, nerds are pretty safe bet
to marry. I'm dying
because I don't consider myself
a nerd, but I get the reference because I
am into nerdy shit. Oh
yeah. But the best is getting
called a bet of a beta male the other
day. Oh yeah. I'm still
laughing. Oh yes. I know. That's
pretty funny. No, but that is, that is
where you'll, you know,
you find a lot of that, that
loyalties. I forgot that we were talking
about that, but yeah, I
don't know. I'm not a nerd. I'm
a Leo. So, you know, you're a weird combo
because you were an
athlete, but then you act, but you
were a closet nerd. Yeah. You were taking
apart clocks when you were
young, trying to figure out
how they worked, but you also were the
quarterback on the football
team. So it's like, you kind of
had this weird combo, I guess, but I
would say those, those are
the safe bet. So I mean, I don't
know. I think we started with cheating.
Um, we went all over the
place, but I think people just
before they enter into full commitment
need to make sure you can
handle it. Make sure you can
handle what you're getting into because
it's a full commitment of your mind, your
heart, and your body
and your wallet and your wallet. What was
the other thing we were
talking about? You know,
what's funny is, um, speaking of nerds,
you got guys like, uh,
what's the name? Bezos. Yeah.
He's getting married soon. Uh, Zuckerberg
from Facebook, right?
He's a nerdy guy. And I don't
know what his wife is or anything about
her, but he's, he's got a
wife and everything. Yeah.
Some kids, um, you know, the chief nerd
finally got divorced,
Bill Gates. Yeah. Right. Um,
so it's kind of interesting. Yeah. No,
they all, I think nerds find their,
their partners, their spouses. Yeah. You
know, you know, but you
know how you said, um,
you don't know any guys who cheat. And I
said, they're not going to
tell you that they cheated.
Like, I don't think that's something guys
bring to each other about.
Is it when you wouldn't know?
Cause you said you don't have any friends
that, no, I don't think
they tell each other, not that
I'm aware of, but you might get the, I've
definitely been
around guys that are like,
that are married and there's a, there's a
pretty woman there, a hot
girl. Yeah. And they're like,
Oh, you know, that kind of thing is like,
but that's not, that's
not cheating. That's not
cheating, but they may cheat. That might
be the type. What I'm
saying is the guys that,
that I know I don't, I wouldn't do that.
Okay. I might, I don't think
so, but I'm not doing that.
Like, Oh, look at that type of thing.
Right. Yes. You know what I mean? It's
almost a projection a
little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I could, I
see what you're saying.
Like that could be intuitive of
other things. Yeah. So there's this trend
going around right now
where women are sharing
voice memos or voice mails that their
exes, ex-boyfriends
have sent them or sharing
recordings of their ex going off on them.
Like they've turned their
phone on during the argument.
And these men are saying the most
horrendous, abusive, disgusting,
threatening things to these
women, horrible. And, and they're just
normal men. Okay. And
then there's men coming on,
making videos saying, where are you girls
finding these guys?
And the women are saying,
they're your friends. And I do think that
there's a whole aspect of
men that other men don't see.
I think that ugliness that is inside some
men that they only
project onto women because
they feel stronger, they feel powerful or
whatever. They're being abusive.
They only share that part of themselves
with the women in their life,
but the men in their life never, ever see
that side to them. And
it's just, it could be your
best friend. And you would never know
that he's a horrible person to his
girlfriend or his wife.
And so it's been very interesting to see
this trend expose a lot of
that and the shock value on
men with it. Cause they're almost acting
like these are the exception.
They're like, they're
making the up type of thing.
No, they're more like, these aren't
normal guys. Like these, these, this
isn't how guys are. And
women are saying, no, this is how guys
are. This is how, how not how all men
are. But there are a
lot of men like this. You just don't,
they don't do this around
you. Cause you would tell them to
stop. You would go off on them. They're,
you know, they would never
feel safe being like that
around their peers. They would be judged.
It's kind of funny
because I, I, you know,
as you're saying that I think men are
extremely fragile, very
fragile and very weak and very,
you know, just sensitive. And it cracks
me up again. The guy
who called me a beta male,
because I was, I commented that I could
never do some of the
things that you've been through.
Like the hysterectomy and that kind of
stuff that just makes me queasy.
But I think I'm an alpha
male to be able to admit that.
I don't want that happening to me. I'm
good at, you know, he was
referencing a sore shoulder.
I have sore bones. My knees hurt at
times, but that's not an
internal thing. That's crazy.
Yeah. So my, my point is, I think men are
mentally, at least emotionally, probably
underdeveloped in many, many aspects. So
when some, when a woman
maybe rejects them or, you know,
doesn't go along for the ride, they go
nuts. Doesn't do what they
wanted. Yeah, maybe that's,
you know, it's, I don't, I don't know if
it's a, it's not a
compliance power play per se.
It's just, you bruised their ego and they
don't have the capacity to
deal with it and cope with
it and move on. And it's like a deep low
or something. And so
it's just being like,
okay, whatever, you know, you're crazy or
whatever. She didn't like my
shit and she called me on it.
Okay. I'm moving on. Yeah. Or avoiding or
avoiding. Yeah. Which is
abusive as well. I'm sorry.
But no, it, it also, though, I think
there's a lot of anger management is, I
think there's a lot of
anger issues with a lot of men and not
just throwing this on
men, but I'm sorry, the, the
violent outbursts, the aggressiveness and
this trend is about men
that are normal, regular guys
and then are getting exposed. Is there a
flip side of guys doing the
same because girls do this
girls can go crazy. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Not yet. Yeah. No,
no, no, no, no. But it's,
it is, it's disturbing. Like if you
listen next, I'll actually
send you one. If you heard it.
Yeah. It's, it's not, it's not just
normal. It's like
really disturbing. So it's,
it's been very interesting. And that's,
that brings me back to,
I don't think men share that dark side of
themselves with each
other. So you guys don't
totally know what you're each capable of
when it comes to how you
are with women. I think you,
that's private, right? So I think you
guys, you don't totally
know. Yeah, probably not.
How deep it can go. I think it's, I think
it goes both ways
though, because I don't think
it's not necessarily masculine or cool to
have your buddies know
that maybe you're whispering,
I love you. I love you. I'll see you
later. You know, that kind
of thing, right? When you're
hanging up the phone and it's the
opposite would be, I don't know, you
better watch it when I get
home or what I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. He is
right. But the two extremes,
the two extremes, it's just not something
we're sharing. We're
down the middle here.
So wait, when men are together, do they
ever talk about or share
how they feel about the women in their
life with each other or
do they keep that private?
I don't know if we share what we think
about our wives, you know,
it's because there's a common
understanding if you're married and
you're not out bitching about the wife,
you're, you probably
like her. Yeah. Right. If someone's
complaining, though, I don't
know if I've come across that in
years. Maybe I've been in situations
where people I've worked with are known
their wives are fairly
controlling in a sense, or that's at
least the perception. And
it's like, well, when you come
in home, why aren't you home? You know,
you don't do that to me.
So it's not an issue. Yeah.
But there's people like that where, you
know, it's, but the flip
side is girls night out. I'm all
for it. Go have fun. I'd prefer you to be
home semi early so you don't wake me up.
But I've come home at two in the morning
before, just to be clear.
Not in years though. Oh, not
in years. But there's guys who don't like
their wives. Oh, yes. I
know. And there's women who
don't like their guys going. Yeah. So
there's, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's probably where it
gets exposed. I would say, but as women,
we still share, but not like
super deep. I think you reach
a point in your marriage probably where
you do keep some things
private. I would say most
things. You keep most things private.
Like we keep pretty much
everything private. But
so yeah, I think the longer you're
together and the older you get, unless
it's an abusive situation,
extreme situation, even with women, I
think we still keep most things, you
know, unless there's
something serious going on. But with your
closest girlfriends, you
still may share, you know, a
decent amount. So but I don't know if men
I don't, I don't know. I don't maybe
there is groups of men
who do talk and share about all that type
of stuff. But it probably
just depends on the people.
Yeah, it definitely not the nerds. Yeah.
No, we're talking
computers, sports and weather.
Again, this is why you
should end up with a nerd.
Then he'll make a hydroponic garden and
talk to you about that
for hours. Yeah. But yeah,
I think that that probably covers all of
our little thoughts and
ramblings on cheating.
On boundaries in relationships and
marriage when it comes to being friends
with the opposite sex.
Adult friendships in general, you know.
And again, cheating is a no.
You know, the last thing I will say is I
think this is it's not a sense of a
sensitive of a topic for
us. But it's just it's a sensitive topic.
It's pretty serious, right?
And it's devastating. When
you're in that situation, I don't think
we're making light of it.
It's just something. Yeah.
Yeah. No, cheating is devastating to
everyone. It's like throwing
a bomb into the relationship.
And if you have a family into the family,
it just there's just so
many casualties that happen.
It goes everywhere. And you just can't
return back to normal.
So it's heartbreaking. I
heartbreaks for the people who've had to
go through that honestly.
So yeah, it's one of the reasons I wanted
to talk about it. You know,
share, share. So yeah, again,
we would love to hear from you. And we
have some exciting guests
coming up. Over the next couple
months, we're going to be having a lot of
of really cool episodes. So keep your
eyes out on that one.
That'll be just boom, boom, boom coming
up. So we will see you next time. Bye.