# Episode 38 - GenX Speaks Series: Julie Golden - Founder and Host of The Big D Dating Show

- Podcast: GenX Adulting Podcast
- Published: 2025-07-01T03:00:00.000Z
- Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/17427906-episode-38-genx-speaks-series-julie-golden-founder-and-host-of-the-big-d-dating-show.mp3
- Page: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/transcripts/podcasts/genx-adulting-podcast/episodes/episode-38
- Source: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/episodes/genxadultingpodcastepisode38.html
- People: Julie Golden (guest), Brian Barker (host), Nicole Barker (host)
- Topics: GenX Speaks

## Summary

In Episode 38 of the GenX Speaks Series, Julie Golden, founder and host of The Big D Dating Show, shares her experiences growing up in a unique family dynamic and her journey through various life stages, including her career in entertainment and motherhood. The conversation delves into the challenges and triumphs of being a Gen X woman navigating relationships, career changes, and societal expectations.

## Key takeaways

- Julie Golden was born in 1969 and identifies as a Gen X woman.
- She grew up in a creative family, influenced by her father's music and her mother's success in publishing.
- Julie experienced multiple family dynamics, including being raised by a single mother who worked her way up in her career.
- She had a tumultuous childhood marked by frequent moves and a lack of stability.
- Julie transitioned from a career in screenwriting to reality TV, where she faced challenges related to gender discrimination.
- She emphasizes the importance of mental health and the impact of societal expectations on women.
- Julie advocates for open conversations about women's health issues, including miscarriages and fibroids.

## FAQ

### What is The Big D Dating Show?

The Big D Dating Show is a platform created by Julie Golden to discuss dating and relationships, particularly focusing on the experiences of Gen X individuals.

### How did Julie Golden's upbringing influence her career?

Julie grew up in a creative environment with a jazz pianist father and a successful publishing mother, which instilled in her a passion for the arts and storytelling.

### What challenges did Julie face in her career?

Julie faced gender discrimination and challenges in the entertainment industry, particularly during her time in reality TV, where she encountered inappropriate behavior from colleagues.

### What personal experiences did Julie share regarding motherhood?

Julie discussed her struggles with miscarriages and the importance of addressing women's health issues, emphasizing the need for better awareness and support.

### What does Julie think about the current state of women's rights?

Julie believes that while progress has been made, there is still much work to be done in terms of women's rights and health awareness, especially for Gen X women.


## Referenced links

- [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWbqiRcdrC8)
- [Listen on Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-38-genx-speaks-series-julie-golden-founder/id1764838823?i=1000715231595)
- [Listen on Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1jFXLEh8N41LY7wWxVKoYo)
- [Listen on Buzzsprout](https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/17427906-episode-38-genx-speaks-series-julie-golden-founder-and-host-of-the-big-d-dating-show)

## Transcript

[MUSIC]
Welcome to Gen X Adulting.
Today we have Julie Golden,
who is the founder and
host of the Big D Dating Show.
Welcome, Julie.
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
We're thrilled to have you.
The first question we
always ask our guests is,
what year were you born?
1969.
So you are Gen X.
I am Gen X, baby.
I'm cringing and now I
just said that by the way.
So I have the first
thing I want you to lose.
Now it's fine.
There's no cringing in
Gen X. We own it all.
That's true. Failure is funny to us.
Yes, exactly. Where were you born?
I was born in Chicago, Illinois.
Midwest.
Yeah.
Are your parents from there?
Yes. I had to just do a
quick because of course,
as a Gen X gal,
I have two sets of parents.
All of them from the Midwest, yes.
Your mom and dad, do
you know how they met?
I do. My dad was a jazz pianist.
He played at the
Jewish Country Club known as
Nipper Sync and my mom,
it was like dirty dancing.
My mom was there and they fell in love.
I mean, it didn't stick,
so I don't know what
they did, but they had me.
That's awesome.
That's cool.
He played the piano.
Yeah. He actually played the
Playboy Mansion in Chicago.
He toured, I guess he
didn't tour with Phil Stiller.
I've been telling
that story. I was wrong,
but he played for her.
So he was a jazz pianist
and then my mother's father,
who was a lawyer at the time,
informed him that he would
no longer be a jazz pianist.
He would be a lawyer and
he would come up for him.
So was he always musically inclined,
like through his childhood
and college and everything?
Yeah. He's where I get all
of my creative compulsions.
My mom would disagree,
which is always funny to me,
but yeah, my dad
raised me on Mill Brooks,
Carl Reiner, Looney Tunes.
He's a hilarious,
former actor, jazz pianist.
So that's definitely where
I get all that stuff from.
And my mom, well, that's
going to be a much larger story.
But she was a big deal in publishing.
Like so impressive.
I mean, the biggest
badass woman, love her,
but she thought she was funny.
I'm like, no mom,
they were paid to laugh,
bigger jokes, that's different.
Like if you're the boss,
you have no idea if you're funny, but.
Yeah.
So was she a writer?
Was she involved in the movie? No. She actually, she, you
know, back in the day,
I'm trying to do the math, I guess,
they split up when I was like two,
so that would be, I guess 1972, right?
That's probably most people were like,
hey, let's get out of here.
I don't know.
She was a stay at home mom at the time,
which is a very strange concept to me.
And that is no shade
to stay at home moms.
That's just, if you
knew my mom, that's crazy.
Right. I don't think that was
ever going to be her path,
but she had not gone to college.
She used to be embarrassed of that.
I think it's one of the
coolest parts of her story.
They split up and this was
back in the Don Draper divorce
days, you know, where
there was no shared,
I mean, there was shared custody,
whatever it was like,
I went with her and I saw him.
Yeah.
So essentially, I mean,
not, he was a great dad.
I'm not saying he was negligent on his duties, but she really was. A single mom and she
had to make a living.
So she got a job as a secretary.
I can't remember the name of the place,
but she worked her way up
through the kind of the ad
selling space of publishing.
And without a college degree behind her,
she ended up becoming the group publisher
of Crane's communications,
like just ran the whole thing.
So, very cool.
Would that have been like, so through the same thing, she was building her
career and then in the 80s,
kind of took that over basically.
Yeah, she was the shit.
She would not like it.
So she was like that
quintessential, oh, that's okay.
We see.
She was like the
quintessential, like 80s working woman,
working mom can do it all.
Yes.
Everything.
So that was your example with your mom.
And then your dad, you
said gave up his son's life
and then he gave up his life. His arts, his love for the
arts and became a lawyer.
Yeah.
That was definitely back in the day
when he had to grow up early.
And if he had a kid, he
became a responsible adult.
So he, I don't know if he
had already gone to law school,
but my mother's father was a
successful lawyer at the time
and said, you're gonna
come work for me, kid.
Did he keep working for his father-in-law
after they got divorced?
No, because fun story.
And yes, I almost had a
development deal for this.
My grandfather,
I don't know if he was
embezzling money from clients,
but the law thing
didn't work out for him.
I think my dad was involved with
defending him at one point.
He was disbarred for
some kind of shady dealings
and became a traveling
salesman, my grandfather.
So no.
And then I can bury the leader.
I can get right into
the juiciest part of this.
But it's so interesting to me
because it's like the arc
of feminism, like my mom.
Anyway, my grandmother, my nani,
was totally like a
fabulous stay-at-home Jewish mom
in the suburbs in Skokie of Chicago.
I remember there was just like Tab.
You remember Tab?
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I can't believe I'm saying,
do you remember Tab on a Gen X podcast?
I can taste it.
I can taste Tab as you said it.
But back then, I loved it.
I didn't get into the diet drinks till
like now I'm addicted.
I loved it.
And then they came out with
one that was like with lemon.
Yeah.
And I loved that one.
Just rat poison in a can.
It was great.
Yeah, yeah.
Pretty much.
Did she work for Tab?
No, sorry.
I just had a flashback to
hanging out at the pool.
There was always Tab there.
No, so in addition to my
grandfather not being great
with the client's
money and all that stuff,
he had started to have,
I'm just laughing because I'm like,
"Wow, I'm just telling
the whole family story."
He had an affair with my uncle's friend
and left my grandmother for her.
I don't know how old she was at the time.
I don't know if she was,
but she was young, she was very young.
But here's what I'm gonna say.
Right.
With him to the end.
They were soulmates.
So there's something there.
But the point is-
So she stayed with him?
She stayed with him?
I mean, the mistress
became the wife, yes.
Oh, okay.
Sorry.
Your grandma was a stay-at-home mom.
Did she end up going to work?
Or did he support her?
No, that's the fun twist
that got Hollywood all
excited at one point.
I'll come back to it and sell it one day.
There was this great place in Skokie
called Myron and Phil's.
It was a red leather booth, restaurant,
just boozy, the broads,
the cocktail waitresses.
And I guess she was there one night
crying over her martini to a friend.
Oh, sorry, I forgot this part.
She tried to get work,
but the government
was garnishing her wages
because of my grandfather's crimes.
So she literally could not make money.
She could not make an honest living.
And so she's crying over her martini.
And this guy next to
her hears it and says,
"Hey, are you good at math?"
And anyway, his name was Irv.
I thought he was my uncle Irv.
That was his crime name.
He was a bookie for the mob.
And he hired her to be a bag
lady and they fell in love.
And she worked for him forever
and they worked together till she died.
So yeah. That's amazing.
Yes. That's cool.
That's very badass actually, I think.
It's a history of badass women
that did what they had to do to get done.
Yeah, no, that's awesome.
So, and this was all,
everyone stayed in that
Chicago area, your whole family.
Yeah, my mom, my biological father
and I were born in the city.
And then there was,
then we moved out to
Mount Carroll, Illinois.
There was this big movement back then
of like city people
moving out to the country,
like to Little Town, USA.
And that's where they split up.
And then my mom and I
moved back to the city
and then she met my now stepfather.
Well, she squeezed
another marriage in there
with another guy, but whatever.
That was, he was one and done, Herschel.
My mom did the same thing.
She was, you're saying your mom was
married three times?
Correct.
So was mine.
Yep, they liked to get married back then.
Yeah. They did.
I think they thought they had to, right?
It wasn't as easy.
I know with my mom,
with my second stepdad,
and I don't know if you ever refer,
he used to laugh because I'd be like,
well, that was with my second stepdad.
And then there was my third stepdad.
That's hilarious. But-
I still laugh. Yeah.
Your entertainment. I know, I know.
But I remember my dad had said to my mom,
because they were living together.
And he said, well, I don't want her there
if you're not married.
And so she just, they got married
because my dad had said
you can't live together
and they shouldn't have gotten married.
They should have just dated
for a while and lived together.
But I think back then women thought,
well, we have to get
married to these people.
Yeah, I mean, I think
that's still part of our psyche
until you get divorced
and started dating show called "Live D."
But yes.
For the women before us though,
I think it was just out of my-
Oh, for sure, for sure.
I think you've got a story there.
It just probably has to cycle back
when Hollywood's producing stories
about in Chicago again, right?
Right.
They don't seem to be
doing it at the moment,
but that stuff will come back.
I think you're right.
Yeah, thank you.
I've always held onto it.
It got so far, it was one of those like,
lunch ships coming, and
then it just broke my heart.
And I'm like, this will be later.
It's not going anywhere.
I'm sure it's meant to be.
So do you know why
your parents got divorced?
I was so young.
I mean, knowing them now,
they were never gonna be together.
Like, I think she was
such a larger than life,
fiercely independent woman
that was going to take
over a portion of the world.
I think she was probably,
if I had to guess, she
was probably restless.
I don't know that she was
articulating that at the time,
but they definitely fought a lot.
I remember hearing them
screaming at each other.
It was not good.
And did you have siblings?
Nope, just me.
Okay.
And then did your dad,
was he still a lawyer
after they got divorced?
Did he continue down or
did he go back to the arts?
No, he did continue lawyering.
And actually he stayed in
Mount Carroll, Illinois,
his wonderful little
town, a little college town,
when we moved back to the city.
And that's where he met my now stepmom,
who's amazing, Patty.
And she was clerking,
I think at the time,
but she was another lawyer.
So, lawyers in love.
Yeah.
But he's still, just to be clear,
he's never stopped playing piano
and he gigs whenever he can.
He has, it's the
happiest you'll ever see.
That man is on the keys.
That's awesome.
That is cool.
From the other marriages,
were there other children?
No, unlike you, the
second husband for my mom,
well, yes and no,
sorry, my mom, Herschel,
it was like, I don't know,
she claims that he was really mean to me.
I don't remember that, but there's no
stepfather one and two.
Like when Michael, my stepfather,
entered the picture, I
was seven and it's been him.
Like he's still, you know, he's my dad.
Yeah, but my dad's my dad.
You know what I mean?
I don't mean, I'm lucky.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was great.
And then my stepmom
and my biological father
did have two boys later, you
know, I was in high school.
And the weird thing is, you know,
they were babies when
I was in high school
and now they're in their
30s and we are so close
and we are so similar,
which is so interesting to me.
I mean, talk about nature nurture, like.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Cause you weren't
raised in the same home.
Did you see them like
every other weekend or no,
you would have been by high school.
Yeah.
You've been doing your things.
So that's awesome.
You guys are close.
I can't even explain.
I mean, my dad and I and
one of my brothers, Josh,
it's like triplets when we're together,
the same sense of
humor, everything, you know?
That's awesome.
And Zach's amazing too, but he's more,
I feel he's more like Patty.
It's just interesting, yeah.
So I'm very.
To have that wide of a age gap too
and not grow up in the
same house and be like that,
it's very cool.
Yeah, I can't even explain it.
Cause I also moved out to Los Angeles,
like pretty much as soon
as I got out of college.
So I, apparently according to my brother,
Josh, who now lives out here,
I'm the reason he came out to California.
I'm like, do not put that on me.
I have no idea what you were witnessing,
but I was constantly having
a nervous breakdown of my 20s
working in Hollywood.
So I don't, it looked
very glamorous to them, but.
Yeah, of course, of course.
Now, would you say your childhood
was a typical Gen X childhood?
Did you have some of those,
how we all say we were feral
and no one was watching us
and we were unsupervised?
Like what would your
perspective be on that for yourself?
Well, so funny when you were like,
tell us some memories, like by you saying
that I just remembered when
we moved back to the city,
so now we're in Chicago.
Like this is crazy to
me in hindsight, right?
We're in the city.
Like were there less serial killers then?
I don't understand, how am I alive?
You know?
No, I think that they didn't know.
It was ignorance is less.
Right, in a way.
But if I'm doing this right,
I was in second or third grade
and all the kids on the
block, we all knew each other
and we were just, you know, the classic,
like out till the sun came down.
I remember there was a boy older than us
who in hindsight should not
have been hanging out with us
and he had like a kissing contest.
I mean, it's crazy, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, now you think
about the things we did
and what we were exposed to,
we would never, ever, ever
let our children do that.
Raising them.
No, there was an intersection there.
Sorry, go on.
Well, no, did you hang out
on like a stoop anywhere?
Somebody stares like a
random set of stares?
Well, we were in the city,
I have, we moved 15 times growing up too.
So that's another part of my, yeah.
But so in the city, we
were in apartment buildings.
So there weren't
really stoops, as I recall,
it was just running around the streets.
And I was just gonna say there was this
intersection nearest
that was insane, one of
those like 10 different,
like we would cross that.
I think I almost died
once, I do remember that.
Like, oh, kids
shouldn't be crossing here.
No, no, I think that to write it
in some ways, Gen X became
kind of helicopter parents.
Like our pendulum went this way,
because I feel like Gen X
tried to give our children
the childhood that we
had wanted as far as,
not that all of our
childhoods were horrible,
but there are certain
things we probably all wanted
and we tried to make sure
we gave that to our kids.
And as a result, some of our kids have,
then I think issues in
other areas because of that.
They're totally in it,
they have no life skills.
I have a whole set of
it, believe me, yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, but we are, we're
compensating and overcorrecting
for what, which was
really parental neglect,
but they didn't know any better.
Yeah. They didn't.
And we survived.
Yeah, we did, we did, we did.
But I think that all of
us to some degree could say
we have some sort of
trauma, whatever it is
that we could unpack and
I think it's because of,
he's still working on that.
But, you know, and now we have Gen Z,
and Gen Z is awesome.
I love Gen Z, but there are certain
things where you're like,
I was doing that when I was nine,
how do you not know how to do that at 22?
I don't understand, you
know, but that's because of us.
Well, I have a new
theory, because it's so funny,
this is my new theory,
we did too good a job,
we should pat ourselves in the back,
because my son who's 15, no interest
in getting his driver's license,
like doesn't need to leave the house.
Like, you know, you
couldn't keep us inside
when we were kids. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
But to a degree, I'm
like, he doesn't hate me.
He wants to be near me, you know?
Yes, it's a great trade off.
It's true, we have kids in their 20s,
and then we have a 15 year old,
and they all wanna hang out
with us, and it's awesome.
Yeah, and it's not like the cool parents
are irresponsible, it's just like,
not this like black and white, I'm the,
because I said so,
right, the generation of kids
should be seen, but not heard.
Like, that's a lot, you're not supposed
to be heard as a kid.
Yeah.
No, we've given them a
space to express themselves,
and we listen, and it's so cool.
You know, I love that
you brought that up,
because I will take
that trade off any day.
Yes, same. I'll teach them my skills
if what I created was
an authentic relationship
with my child.
Sounds great. It's a great trade off.
I agree. Yeah, 100%.
So why did you guys move 15 times?
Oh, can I circle back a little bit to something
you Bryan said, and
then move back to the 15?
Absolutely. Because Bryan,
you're saying we survived,
but I think what's interesting
about that is, I wanna
compare therapy bills later in life
with how much therapy our kids have,
and how much therapy we've had.
But anyway, that's, we'll see.
(laughing) That's a good point.
But we don't know, we don't know.
Okay, 15 times.
This is interesting,
this is another time, okay?
So, well first of all,
there's a bigger psychological thing
I've realized now is that my parents,
rather than a hobby or
any existential whatever,
or any therapy or any like,
they would just remodel houses
and move, and move, and move.
There's a psychological thing.
But financially and
economically, that was back in the day
when you could just be a
regular person who had a job,
you got raises, you could buy a house,
you could then buy a nicer house,
you could keep improving
your life, and that's over now.
So they did that, we
started off in a rental apartment,
and I remember they bought
the first little teeny fixer,
and they were very, they built the deck.
They knew how to do everything too.
Yeah, I don't know how to do anything.
So they kept doing that, and then I think
they just got
addicted to avoiding staring
into their souls, and just
looking at wallpaper instead.
There's a fine equal incentive there too.
You can parlay, parlay
and keep making money.
And they did.
I don't wanna, you're absolutely correct.
They were great with money.
I didn't get that part from them.
But they were great with money.
They could, money was
like rabbits for them.
They could just, yeah.
Yeah.
They were ahead of their time flipping.
They really were.
That's so funny, I
didn't even think of that.
Now wouldn't be considered anything.
Yeah, no, but I mean, and
I get what you're saying,
it was probably a
distraction for them, like you said.
But it was also, they were way ahead of,
because now that, then
flipping, it's gone crazy.
That's a whole thing,
but they were way ahead.
But we moved three times in
a three block radius once.
That was weird.
Yeah.
(laughing) Did you have to change schools that much,
or were you able to at
least go to the same school?
Yeah, this is so fun.
I feel like this is, I
love what you've created,
a safe place for kids today.
No, but I mean, this was
back when public school was,
well, okay, wait, there was also,
I feel like this is
politically incorrect to say,
but it was a thing that happened,
and I don't know what to call it.
So we started off in the city,
and the Chicago Public
School System collapse,
as it did in so many
city public school systems.
So there was this
thing called white flight,
which I don't, I mean, it's,
I think it's a historical term,
but basically everybody moved out.
White people moved to the suburbs.
Correct, yeah.
Yeah, worked with, yeah.
So that's what we did.
So the schools were excellent out there.
So to answer your question,
you went to your local school.
There was no, you guys
are in Florida, right?
Yeah, yeah.
I don't know if you've
got the whole magnet points,
it's like all this
craziness of magnets and charters,
or is your local school good?
We have, public
school's great where we are.
And so what it is is we
have great public schools,
and then the private
schools are excellent.
And then our public schools have,
it's kind of maybe like
charter, I'm not sure,
but they have programs.
Like one of them has a pre-med program.
One of them has an
entrepreneurship program.
And you can, if you're not zoned,
you can apply to be in a lottery.
Yes, charter, yes.
And if you're part of your stuff,
like let's say it's
five miles across town
or 10 miles across town, you get picked,
your kid can go there.
Yes.
So if you're zoned, you
automatically get to go
to your high school, let's say,
but you can try to go to others.
Is that kind of what you mean?
Yeah, and I don't know if
you have the magnet system,
we have a version of that too,
where you have to like game the system
while your baby's in utero,
you have to like apply it.
The point is it's so broken
that we're trying to create these ways
to ensure a school path,
but my kid hasn't been to the same school
with his friends the whole time.
But to answer your question, Brian, yeah,
like I moved, but I still went to the
same elementary school.
I still have the same friends.
I still went to the same high school.
Like it wasn't that, yeah.
That suburbia kind of smallish town.
Yes.
Limited number of schools, right?
Yeah, yeah, there really were.
If you go to like Manhattan, right?
There's public school one through 99.
And they're in different
neighborhoods and all that.
And depending on where you
live, that's where you go.
The suburbs, like where I grew up,
we had two elementary
schools, one junior high
and one public high
school and one private.
Where'd you grow?
For your choices.
What's that?
Where did you grow up, Brian?
I grew up in a place
called Sparta, New Jersey.
Okay.
About 50 miles west of Manhattan.
Got it.
The northwest corner of New Jersey.
Very rural farmland,
very beautiful actually.
Not what you think of Jersey.
Not like Tony Soprano.
No.
No, we could go see Tony.
He was 30 miles east, but yeah.
You could visit Tony,
but then you get to go back
to your nice farmland little town.
All of Tony's guys now
own all the McMansions
where I grew up.
Of course, exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
That Chicago style thing, right?
Once you get out,
probably Chicago, metro suburbs.
Yeah, yeah, there was a lot of that.
So at least when that was going on,
you didn't have to change schools.
You had the consistency of
friendships and your schools,
but that had to have caused some anxiety
right as you would get
settled into your bedroom again
and into a routine in this home.
But you probably never
really totally rooted
because you knew this is not gonna stay.
It's not permanent.
That makes sense on paper.
And yet I swear to you,
I loved when we moved.
It was exciting to see
where my new room was gonna be.
It's weird.
No, that's great.
That is cool.
But I'm gonna just throw out a crazy
psychological theory
here, it's not crazy, I
think this is correct.
I remember it being very happy and
exciting when we moved
because they were happy,
because they liked the project.
So the smell of wallpaper
or paint, things were good.
Yeah, that makes sense.
It was kind of tied.
So you knew that that
means everything's okay.
Yes, oddly.
We were good, so you guys were all good.
Yeah, I never thought
about that till now, but yeah.
Now have you found as an
adult, you fix things up
or that you enjoy it?
Do those scents bring back a feeling of,
I don't know,
contentment or happiness for you?
Does it trigger anything good?
Yes and no, I love
moving into a new place.
It's totally empty.
It does feel like, I
mean, it's a fresh start,
but I also feel like a
prisoner of this compulsion
to look at open houses constantly.
And they were always
trying to suck me in.
They're like, look at
this house down the street.
I'm like, I'm happy here, leave me alone.
So that constant need.
That lingers, that has
lingered it seems like.
Yeah, I've licked it, yes.
I don't feel good when
I go into an open house.
I start to hyperventilate.
I'm like, no, what are we doing?
This is avoidance.
That is really interesting.
So when you were in elementary
and did you call junior
high or middle school?
Where you were from?
That's interesting.
I feel like it was called middle school.
I don't think it was
called junior high school.
Okay, so through elementary, middle
school, high school,
did you play any sports
or were you involved with music or arts?
Well, I don't know about you guys.
Wait, where did you grow up, Nicole?
Oregon, Portland.
Okay, so we had elementary school
and those separate middle schools.
That what you guys had in high school?
I think you called it junior high.
I think you called it junior high, right?
But it was separate, yes.
No, I mean, I did, but I
was not an athletic kid
and sadly my son has followed suit.
Yeah, elementary school,
I think I was already
kind of a theater kid
wanting to be in plays.
Junior high school,
all my friends dumped me
and I became unpopular.
So I was just trying to
survive the three years there.
Middle school sucks.
I think it's the worst time for people
and I think it's the
worst time to be a parent
because I know I went
through hell and my kids did.
I saw PTSD from what my kids went through
and there are kids
who were mean to my kids
and I could be 80 and see
them in the grocery store
and I'll still curse them.
I'm with you.
Our kids have gotten past it.
I will never, no, my kids maybe have
gotten past, I won't.
I'm absolutely with you.
I know it's unhealthy.
I'm absolutely with you.
I despise these children.
I don't see them as children.
I see them as future dictators.
I know exactly who they're gonna be.
I don't buy any evolution for them
because I remember them.
100%.
Parenting is re-parenting.
Yes, no, I know that's the worst thing
is they then do it with their kids.
It's just the bullies having
more bullies and more bullies.
So listen, when you said that about how
your friends flipped
and then you were just
trying to get through,
I hear you, it's the worst.
It's the worst and my son,
it's so funny because
I totally take pride
in being a former nerd
while a lot of people say
they were a nerd.
Like you weren't a nerd.
I know I can smell nerd on people.
You don't have trauma on you.
But it's easier to be popular.
So I was hoping myself would be popular.
And the moment I saw it, I'm like,
first of all, it makes total sense
because he's, you know, and he's amazing.
He's like hilarious and weird and loud.
I'm like, that was me, that was me.
Not cool, you know?
And it was great in elementary school.
The kids loved it, but
then it's like weird.
It's like they wanted, we
don't do that here, you know?
Yeah, well, and then the alpha boys,
they all try to be
the alphas of them all.
And if you're not an
asshole, you're screwed.
Yes.
That's really what it is.
So, and you're not raising an asshole.
So, you know, it's the worst thing.
But then what we found with our kids is
then through high school, it gets better.
Yes, he's doing, yes. And of course,
in college and, you know,
and I'd rather have them
be the person they are with depth
and all the wonderful
things we've raised them to be
than be an asshole and be
popular in middle school.
Oh, a million percent
as if that's a number.
Now you say I'm bad at math.
And to go back to the
overcorrecting for our childhood,
like I remember in middle school,
I was obviously depressed,
and all my girlfriends all dumped me.
And I remember my mom very clearly.
I mean, who knows, it's so long ago.
But I feel that I recall her saying,
well, what did you do?
Yes. Yeah.
Right? Yeah, yeah.
I think it's a boomer thing.
Yes. I think that's more common.
I think it's more common.
It's just like they also have
a hard time complimenting us.
Yes. Without there being a,
but, but yeah, no, I was raised that,
look at it from the
side they're coming from.
Yeah. What's their outlook?
Where ironically, Brian's
parents were silent generation
and he was raised in
Irish Catholic Jersey.
He was raised like, fuck him.
Yeah, pretty much.
That sounds so nice.
I know, I know, I know.
And so we- Mr. Christ.
Yeah. Our kids-
I'm in that mode now though.
I'm in the fuck them, who cares?
Let it go. He gave me permission
to raise my kids like that.
Cause I would have done how I was raised.
Like, well, let's see what side they're,
maybe they're having a hard time.
And he's like, fuck that.
Yeah. Yeah.
You know, they're screwed. They're dicks.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. They're dicks.
So, and I think Gen X,
we have our kids backs
because we felt our
parents didn't have ours.
Yes, yes.
In fact, yeah, my son reached a point,
which is this dance, right?
Where he didn't want to tell me anything
cause he knew I would
come in like guns blazing.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Like, I promise I won't, you know?
Cause I knew at a
certain point you can't, right?
But. Yeah.
I don't know because let
me tell you a quick story.
My daughter is 24 and she plays on an
adult softball team.
And we thought there was a,
somebody had written
something mean on the roster
that was online, but we
come to find out it wasn't.
It was like a technical
thing that just sometimes goes,
but it was, no one did anything.
I called the city.
I called the city. I'm laughing
cause I knew, I love it.
You're ready. I did.
I'm like, LMG.
Yeah, I'm like, who
has access to this app?
I want to know.
The poor guy who picked up the phone.
No one has access.
I'm like, well, and then he explained.
I'm like, oh, thank you.
And she's 24.
So I don't know if it ever really ends.
No, in fact, my mom, for
all of her, what did you do?
The truth is, years later,
she called me giddy and excited.
I was mortified.
She was a big deal executive.
She's like, you'll never guess who was
just here interviewing.
I'm like, who?
And then she mentioned a name.
I'm not going to
mention who was my best friend
who would hurt the most.
I'm like, oh gosh.
She's like, I made her cry.
I'm like, mom, don't tell me that.
That's horrible.
She's a grown human.
She's like, I'll never forgive her.
Like, I wish she hadn't
blamed me back in the day.
This doesn't help.
Right, right.
I almost think they did it
because they just wanted to fix it.
They wanted it to be done.
Yes, they know, they know.
They knew and they were mad,
but they went about it a different way.
Now what about in high school?
You were in theater?
So yeah, so then high school,
I feel like there was
something else I was going to say
about my kid in middle school
that I can't remember now.
Oh, I was going to say the
over-correction thing.
I don't know if you've done this,
but I've gotten so bad with him
about protecting him from
the pain from these people
that I know I've done him a disservice
because he does not
stomach discomfort well.
Whereas our
generation, I feel like anything
we can put up with,
I can
compartmentalize anything, you know?
Yes.
Yeah, no, it's true.
It's bad.
They feel everything,
they express everything,
and any little blip,
there's no grinding through.
They don't grind through.
No.
So it's acknowledging
it, and you're right.
No, that's the same with our kids.
I'm curious because I
think she handles that
better than I do.
I wonder how you handle that.
Are you, I'm abrasive
maybe, for lack of a better word,
where it's like, ah,
come on, knock it off,
keep going, where she'll sit and listen.
Where do you fall on that spectrum?
Yes, not good, not the
good side of the spectrum.
My ex-husband, his
father, was really good
about being the
measured, disciplined one.
He's got a really good
sense of when to push our son,
and he knows it, and I know it.
Because of what I went
through, I have royally fucked up
and gone the other way.
So if he ever doesn't
want to go to school,
I'm way too lenient, but
the flip side of that is,
sometimes I feel guilty,
because I'll hear my ex-husband
or an ex-boyfriend's
head, my mom in my head,
you're being too soft on
him, and then all of a sudden,
I'm like, you gotta get out of bed.
It's like I'm schizophrenic with him.
And it's like all your
anxiety, you're like, protect.
Yes, yes, but do better.
You're not gonna get one
over on me, but are you okay?
Yeah, but are you okay?
Are you happy?
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Have I said I'm sorry?
Yeah, yeah, it's so funny.
It's so true though.
It's funny, my
daughter with my 15-year-old
will get like that,
because some days we don't know
if he cares if we exist,
and other days he loves us,
because he's 15.
But then she'll just
be like, are you happy?
Everything okay?
What can I do?
And he's like, I'm fine, leave me alone.
So now there's older
siblings that are overcompensating.
This poor kid.
But okay, so high
school, were you theater?
So high school, we
were still in Evanston.
Evanston is, sorry.
Evanston, Illinois?
Evanston, Illinois is
very, it's where John Hughes
is from, so 16 candles, all that stuff.
That's where I grew up.
But I was the nerd.
Okay, anyway, high school was less
painful, as you said.
So I was there freshman, sophomore year.
I was on the soccer
team, I have no idea why.
And my only memory was I
scored a goal for the other team.
Like I remember that to this day.
I was very proud of myself.
I didn't understand why
nobody was getting in my way,
and everyone was yelling.
That sounds like something
that would happen in a movie.
Yeah, that's me, yeah.
Yeah, if it's, yeah.
Now were you in plays?
Oh, wait, I do have
another embarrassing thing.
I also was in synchronized swimming.
Nice, they had
synchronized swimming in Chicago?
In Evanston, yeah.
And it was one of those like--
In Illinois, actually in the 80s.
Yeah, it was not cool, just to be clear.
It was not a cool thing to be doing.
You could still do it.
So you were a theater kid who did
synchronized swimming
is what you're trying to say?
I couldn't get cast.
Oh no.
Yeah, and it actually--
You had a different play?
Oh yeah, the theater program at Evanston
is kind of a really
well-known theater program.
John Cusack, Jeremy
Piven, like it was a very--
Okay, okay.
So, but still, fuck them anyway.
Were you in school with any of them?
No, they're older, so.
But I do have some famous
names coming up to hit you soon
because my mom moved
us then back to the city
for my junior and senior year.
And I don't, she said it
was to be closer to work,
but I almost feel like she could see
that I was socially floundering.
I mean, it wasn't
painful like middle school,
but I kind of just
felt invisible and lost
in this huge school.
Did you find your people at all?
Not there.
I mean, I found some people, you know,
you find someone to hang with,
but it wasn't until
we moved into the city
and we went to a fancy private school.
I guess my mom must
have been doing really well
at that point.
And it was called Francis Parker,
and there were two big
fancy private schools,
Latin and Parker.
And Latin was definitely more of the,
it was known as the, I don't know,
the, Francis Parker was the
hippy dippy theater school,
you know, and Latin was
more like around the path.
I don't know.
And so at Parker, Anne Hage, I don't know
if you remember Anne,
she was in my class,
so we were in Fiddler
on the Roof together.
And- Oh, wow.
Yes. That's cool.
Yeah.
And you got parts there.
Oh yeah, sorry.
Then I was theater kid.
Yes, I thrived and flourished.
And this is interesting.
This is gonna get back to the
overcorrection of our kids.
At that school, it was
cool to be smart and weird.
And then I was like, oh, it was great.
I'm like, this is my place.
God knows how much a year.
So I've always felt
bad that I can't afford,
I mean, private school
today compared to then.
Well, I don't know
what it's like in Florida,
but you know what private school here is?
Like 55 grand a year.
Yeah, I mean, we have
some schools like that.
We have schools like the
Catholic schools are less.
Yeah, you're good with Jesus, 20 grand.
Yes, right.
But the other ones are
what you're talking about.
Okay, so his dad and I can't afford that.
And I've felt as I saw him being
unpopular, getting bullied,
I was like, I feel so bad,
I can't put him in a private school
where I feel like he would flourish, but.
Yeah, no, and I can see
that because I do think
for kids that struggle in that large
public school environment,
they do thrive in that smaller space.
And I feel you because you did.
Because I think it
sounds to me like you were
on a totally higher level than the
suburban public school.
Like what you had inside of you.
I mean, I'm glad you said it, Nicole.
It is.
(both laughing)
It's just, once you got into a city,
it was just more
evolved, I think probably,
and there's more going
on and the school itself
could cater to your interests and talents
in a better way, I have a feeling.
There's no public
school options like that.
So, yes, so that's where the
whole magnet thing comes in.
So I have done a good job as a mom,
I will say I have found
the best least bad version.
He does like where he is now.
I guess middle school
is gonna be a shit show
no matter where he went.
Also, you have a 15
year old, so you know,
right off of COVID
going into middle school.
Yeah, yeah.
They were just feral
animals, feral animals.
Not in a fun way, not in a
drink from the hoe's way.
Right, yeah.
So I think they all were
struggling in middle school,
but it was, ironically,
he loved theater as a kid,
and then he went to middle school.
It was a performing arts middle school.
I thought, this is gonna be great,
but they were bullies.
I'm like, oh no, they're bullies
in the performing arts program.
They're all asshole, get that age.
Oh my gosh, I think it's the age.
Yes, they need to push down, isolate,
create stratus of popularity.
So--
It's like Lord of the
Flies years, I call it.
Yes, and also my son
is a cop of the world.
He's like into justice and gets up in
everyone's business.
And I was like, where
did he get this from?
Like, oh shit, that's me, that's me.
And that's with a fly in middle school
because they can't fit.
Yeah.
They're sick, they're sick.
Like I remember hearing
that word, my 15 year old,
I'm like, what do you mean?
He goes, no, you can't snitch.
It's like, it was the
biggest thing in middle school.
Yeah, he was a snitch.
Yeah.
(laughs)
But he also, sorry, go on.
Now it's the same, but now
he's in high school, right?
I was in high school, so he's in this,
so then you go and it's
all the magnet program.
So you go to a big school,
but at least they figured this part out.
You're in a small
school within the school.
Maybe that's what you're talking about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So he's in this humanities program,
which he's such a history kid.
I mean, it blows me away
how he just connects dots
and this whole program is
about weaving all the topics
together through the lens of history.
I'm like, yes.
That's awesome.
So he's doing well, yeah.
That's perfect, that's perfect.
So for you, you got into the,
what you call it, the liberal arts?
Was it a liberal arts?
Oh, the high school?
The high school.
It wasn't known, it
wasn't technically that,
but it was, like you had just been here.
Okay, and you were there
for junior, senior year?
Junior, senior year, yeah.
It looked like
Woodstock in the hallway there.
It was hilarious.
And then during those years,
did you kind of know
that you wanted to further
your education in that in college?
Is that what you went to school for?
Yes, and if I'm ever acting too much
like a producer myself, please stop me,
but can I circle back and
just talk about one more thing
about middle school and high school?
Of course, yeah, we do all that.
We do that all the time.
Okay, because I know
you're gonna relate to this too.
Okay, so my son was
diagnosed with ADHD for real.
I know their kids being
over diagnosed, I get it,
but it explained so much of
his behavior in middle school.
He didn't stand a
chance, you know what I mean?
Anyway, his dad and I didn't
agree about how to handle it,
and then we did, and things got better.
But the point of the story is,
I'm realizing that
was me in middle school.
That was me, and they
didn't have terms for that,
so they put me in a
learning disability class
with criminals, like kids.
I mean, you know, but
like, you know, trouble kids.
Yeah, but you know
that's Gen X girls were,
because when they did
finally start diagnosing it,
it was boys.
Like the Gen X girls
were ignored with ADHD,
because I think it's
harder to diagnose in girls,
because girls are so high performing,
and I think they can mask it easier.
The boys were hyper, hyper, hyper.
The girls, I think it
was a little bit different.
But I can't tell you how
many women I've met our age
that came to find out they have ADHD.
Yeah, I mean, again, I
have not diagnosed it,
but honestly, I don't need to.
I'm watching my kid.
Can I have some of that live ends?
Yeah.
I've learned ways to curve it, you know?
But, and so the other,
I'm sure you know this too.
So he's gifted, whatever that thing is.
He tested gifted, but he's like 2E,
because he's got ADHD and gifted.
So again, like where does he fit?
We got him the thing, it's fine.
But the point is, one of the things
about his type of brain, again, I don't
know about you guys,
it's like light bulbs
about your childhood,
is I started doing well
junior and senior year,
because suddenly they were small classes
of super advanced topics
that I was interested in.
Like the big general stuff, I was like,
drool, you know, and that's interesting.
And that continued into, I know for me,
that continued into college.
Thousand percent.
I also started picking up that,
once I became an upperclassman,
all of a sudden I was like focused,
and this is
interesting, and then I was able
to carry that in through
school, through college.
Yeah, I struggled.
But I was kind of just like--
Yes, total struggle academically,
freshman, sophomore year,
junior started to get interested
in senior year, always.
Yeah, yeah.
Just like--
So is that, in that, did you know,
did you have colleges picked out,
where you wanted to go,
like once all of this--
I only got into one college,
because my grades were
not great, so I got into--
From the earlier years in high school?
So it was, like where do
we put this delinquent,
no, I'm just kidding,
there was no record.
No, I just, yeah, my
grades were so spotty,
I didn't test well,
SAT, no, that was not--
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think those should just all go away,
but so the only school I
got into was easy to get into,
now it's really hard to get into,
which is so funny to me,
but it was University
of Wisconsin, Madison,
and it was amazing, it
was a five star school,
but it was also a five star party school,
so it kind of got--
Yeah, that's a party place.
Yes, now it's also an
extraordinarily hard school
to get into, which is funny.
Yeah, yeah.
Whoo, Madison's cool,
we've been there once, and we liked it.
It was amazing.
It's a cool town.
Yeah, yeah, it was great.
It's a crazy town in many ways, right?
That's kind of when it
blew up when you were there,
I think it blew up as a party school
and a cool place to be.
I had my fun, for sure.
I was arrested twice.
What were you arrested for?
Well, the first time
was underage drinking,
of course, the cops put
us in the back of the car
and took us back to our
dorm, and I was such a brat,
I was like, don't you
have something better
for important to do
with your time, coppers?
It's poor people
dealing with college assholes.
And then the second
time was my senior year,
and we were throwing
the most epic party ever.
I've always thrown great parties,
which is what the big,
I'm not trying to get us
to the big D, but it is funny,
I've been throwing hosting parties in,
I love people pleasing,
that's probably a bigger mom issue.
Anyway, the cops totally screwed us,
they waited outside and
they caught an underage drinker
at me now of a college party, of course,
because it was, I
don't know, a soft drink.
So I had to go to court and my dad,
my biological father
had to come as my lawyer.
There, it paid off,
you had your own lawyer?
Did he get you off?
He did, in fact, I don't understand.
When I think back to that, I'm like,
how was I arrested and brought to court?
I don't have any, nothing happened.
I mean, I guess in Madison, they're like,
get in line, kid, you know?
So when you first got there,
I assume you were in the dorms, right?
I was in the dorms, I
was on fraternity row,
I rushed, which was
weird, I went to the sorority,
which is not me, I
don't know if you can tell,
but that I don't, that's what I did.
Was it like a theater?
Did you go to different sororities
and then pick which one was it?
It's just ruthless though.
Oh, it is.
Their daughter did it,
the whole grief system
for boys and girls, but
especially girls was crazy.
It's all judges you
on, it's just appearance.
Yes. Or anything else.
Yes, and I have to say,
they couldn't fire me, I quit.
A few of them wanted me, but I was like,
this isn't, I don't think this is my,
this is not my people, this is not my--
So you weren't in the sorority at all,
or you were like--
I was a little sister, do
you remember that thing?
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, they still have it.
That's the biggest
scam ever, like really?
You know, you just have
a bunch of young girls
coming over to your
parties, well done guys.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Our daughter dropped after two years,
she was like, this is enough.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just, you're
either in it or you're not.
Yeah, I don't think you're
right, there's no middle ground.
There's no middle ground.
So you were in the dorms your first year,
did you know your roommate?
That was such a spoiled brat.
I didn't want a roommate, so I demanded
that my parents give me a single.
Nice.
Yeah, and they did.
But here's what I'll say, I
gave back to the community,
I became the party room.
So we would smoke a ton of
weed, I would play Led Zeppelin,
and I had a really nice
fridge full of snacks,
I made sure everybody was well fed.
There you go.
The RA hated me.
We didn't have that
option where we went to school,
you couldn't choose to be in a single,
you had to have a roommate.
Yeah, don't worry.
Where were you?
So many people dropped out.
We went to a school called,
well now it's called
Southern Oregon University,
but when we went, it was
Southern Oregon State College.
I think it was like 6,000 people.
Yeah, roughly.
Small, in Aspen, Oregon.
Is that where you guys met?
Yeah.
Oh, college sweethearts.
Yeah.
He came out there from New Jersey,
and went to school,
and I was from Portland.
So I was like four and a
half hours south in Oregon.
Have you been to Ashland?
Being in LA, it's, I
mean, it's not close,
but it's closer than Florida.
I have not, should I?
Yes. It's cool, actually
it's a very artsy town,
and they have a very big,
they're well known for
their Shakespeare Festival.
So every summer there's a
Shakespeare Festival there.
It's pretty cool, actually.
It's beautiful.
It's an outdoor secret.
It's only 20 miles north
of the California border.
All right, I'll put it on the list.
So if you're ever up that way, in
Northern California,
it's worth stopping in
Ashland, it's beautiful.
I love it.
I love Northern California.
That's where my son and I both think
that we should be
living, just so you know.
We love Northern.
When we go to California, we go to
Northern California.
What do you consider
Northern California, though?
Okay, right.
Well, I took him on a trip, oh my God,
we did like Russian
River, Russian Valley,
like that whole area,
and then we went down the,
is it Mendocino Coast?
No.
From Mendocino County, sure.
Yeah, oh my God, it was like Pegasus
was gonna just come in off
the clouds, off the craggy.
Oh, so beautiful there.
Did you go to the Eel River area?
Like the Eel River and--
Like Arcata.
Yeah, and what about the redwoods?
Have you checked out the redwoods?
Yes, I mean, it's just,
that's where we're all
supposed to be, right?
Like, just know it's awesome.
It feels like heaven.
I don't even believe in
heaven, sorry if you do,
but that is heaven,
that would convince you.
It's beautiful.
Now you'd love Ashland,
you gotta check it out,
but where we went to
college, there was no choices.
You were in a dorm with a roommate.
So it's nice you had that, that's cool,
and that you were able to
kind of have everyone come in,
but then you were able to say,
okay, go back to your
room now and get my own.
Yes, I'm going to sleep now, yes.
And then your sophomore year,
were you in an apartment
then, or did you have a roommate?
A bunch of us girls from the dorm decided
it would be a good
idea to have seven girls
renting a house together, so.
That sounds like fun.
It was fun until it wasn't, yes.
Yeah, that sounds crazy.
A lot of drama. How many bathrooms?
There were a lot of bathrooms.
It was like those crazy college houses.
I don't know if it was a
boarding house at one point,
but it was like this, but no, it was,
we had great parties,
but at a certain point,
I don't think people even
wanted to come to the parties
because there was always
some drama that was exploding.
With the girls. Yes, yes.
Are you still friends with any of them?
Yeah, well, actually, my, so my,
we were friends in high school,
but not best friends until college,
and she's now a very
famous actress, Amy Landecker.
I don't know if you know Amy,
but she was in the show "Transparent."
I don't know if you watched "Transparent."
Should we?
It's a great show, yeah.
Okay, I'll take it out.
Do you watch "Your
Honor" with Bryan Cranston?
No, but everyone keeps telling me
I need to watch that show.
She's in that, she's
married to Bradley Whitford,
but I don't wanna just be like,
she's married to Bradley Whitford.
No, she's a very talented show.
Right, right, right, okay.
So now I have to, everyone says I gotta
check out that show.
Yeah, so we were best
friends throughout the four years,
and we had lots of fights,
but yes, that she's my sister.
You guys did tell friends, that's cool.
Yes.
So then junior year, did
you guys ditch the house?
No more seven girls in the house?
I don't know if you
guys went through this,
but I feel like, so sophomore year
is when the whole like
deadhead revival thing happened,
like the fake dead head.
Oh, we went through it.
Yeah, do you know what I mean?
It was deadhead.
You were deadheads?
We are deadheads.
You are deadheads.
I don't know, can you see the cassettes?
I don't know if she can see them.
No, but I don't see like a tapestry,
Paisley tapestry behind you.
We had that at one point in our lives.
Of course you did, yes.
Okay, so yeah, we joined in that hard.
We've probably seen over
a hundred dead concerts.
So if you combine
Jerry Garcia and all that,
but that would have been
like our sophomore year
in high school when we started.
Yeah, I was gonna say it started earlier.
Yeah, or before college.
Like we were, we were born in 71.
Oh, okay, right, so that makes sense.
You were like a
junior, we were a sophomore.
Well, it did start in earnest then.
Yeah.
It really came out with a,
what was it, Touch of Grey in 1986,
which then just moved on.
You know what, oh my God, you were right
because now I'm flashing
back to my ex-boyfriend
who was so cool in high school
and he had all these tiny
dye shirts he was selling.
He was so
entrepreneurial and I was such a dork
and I wasn't cool
around him, you're right.
It was high school where it started.
Yeah, it started in high school.
That's why I hate the dead.
Maybe, yeah.
Hey listen, no, a lot of
people don't like the dead.
It's an acquired taste.
I blame the mushrooms that didn't work
the first time I went.
I think that--
There you go.
Gotta try again.
There you go, yeah, yeah.
(laughing)
Was it a show?
I did, so sophomore
year our house got divided
very quickly into
hardcore dead heads and not.
And I remember these
people would bring people back
from the concerts to live
off our food and our money
and they had names that were not real
and they were down on capitalism
but they were not down
against using our money.
And I just remember that
when I would hear the bells
on the ankles, I was like, shit.
Yeah.
I'm dying.
I wore--
You summed it up perfect.
Yeah, that's the goal.
You ran our house.
Yeah, probably.
No, but it was all hypocrisy, right?
Because we all came from
good families with money.
Exactly.
We were struggling or
trust safari and kids
and everyone was like, no, and it
rebelled against that.
It was all just so, we have a listener
who said it was pick mes.
We were like the first pick mes.
That's hilarious.
I don't know if you've
heard that term, pick mes.
Oh, pick me, yeah, pick me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm a pick me girl for my son, actually,
that's what I joke about, yeah.
I'm like, right here, love me.
Yeah, exactly.
Madison was like--
Matthew Tippie.
Oh, massive.
They used to have the
420 Fest in Madison.
Oh, Harvey's Fest, yeah.
Here's the thing, I
was in a weird position.
I was a hippie who hated the dead.
I like Crosby, Stills,
and Nash, that was my jam.
So I was a hippie.
I think it was the people
that I came encounter with
kind of killed it for me,
but also, you have to admit,
it is, and I'm a music
nerd, like I love music,
but it is a jam band,
you have to like jam bands.
Yeah, yeah.
And the drugs do help
and for whatever reason,
mine did not work when I
went to that one concert
and there was a huge storm
and we were sleeping in mud
and I was like, so I
don't, but I wanna be clear,
I totally respect them and I get it.
Oh, no, no, no.
No, but I do, like the music's good.
It's just, it comes with such a great--
No, but you have to like jam band.
You have to like jam band.
And I don't, I'm not a jam band.
I'm with you though, the
people, I love the music.
I feel like I was going to
church and then it all ended,
but the people were driving
me crazy there at the end.
100%.
Yeah, and it still happens.
We go see dead cover bands,
there's one place in our town
and our kids are dead heads, so we go.
That's so cute.
Yeah, it's good, we love that, right?
But there's still like, as
adults, like asshole dead heads.
Like everyone's trying to be like,
I'm more dead head
than you, it's like, stop.
But they were like that then.
I'm so glad you said
that, that's what it was
when those people with the ankle
bracelets chiming around,
there was a holier than thou,
some kind of spiritual superiority.
And I'm like, what?
And I just, it was bullshit.
And so it is unfortunate
because I don't think I've ever,
because I'll find myself
singing some of the songs.
I'm like, fuck, it's a good song.
Just let it in.
It makes it, yeah, he
called him the Uzers,
but it was just like
just pseudo, just fakeness.
And it was all this clout crap.
And you could never be
hippy enough or hardcore enough
or dead head enough.
And it was dumb, trust me, I get it.
And in Ashland, which
was such a hippy town,
it was like, everyone's
competing to be the most
like granola that you can.
They're like mean girls,
they're granola mean girls.
100%.
I'm like, I know you people,
I went to middle school with you.
You just have armpit hair
now, that's the only thing.
Yes.
And that's all who smells funny
with bells on their ankles.
Yes, and is eating all my food.
Yes.
That's hilarious, I love that.
We agree with everything you say.
What's funny is we really love the music.
Like we really love the
music, but no, the scene,
and sometimes you see them, like we
weren't really into fish.
We saw fish, this is an
interesting story, I think,
is at our school, there
wasn't, what was it like?
It's called the Brit Ballroom.
The Brit Ballroom, it's like
the size of like a cafeteria.
Yeah. In a middle school with a stage.
And we saw fish there and
there was only 100 of us.
It was when fish first started.
And that was the only
time we've seen fish.
We're like, it's never
gonna get better than this.
Everyone was on mushrooms.
And they were just on this stage
where you would put on
a play in middle school.
That's cool.
And there was a keg, and it was cool.
So we're like, we never
got into the fish scene.
And I know there's a
whole asshole scene there,
I think everywhere.
There's assholes everywhere, exactly.
But yeah, that makes sense
because you had that
going on in your house,
and then you had an
ex-boyfriend that was into it.
So the dead has a lot
of negative connotations.
Exactly, I'm gonna have to rewire.
I mean, it does help
that like John Mayer,
even though he's like a total slut,
but I mean, I get that
all these professional,
why they're drawn to it.
I will revisit it, I will
wear a mustache and a wig,
so nobody knows.
Like you hate the dead.
Well, it's the cash engine.
Yeah. Right, it's the cash
engine for these guys now.
Oh yeah, the Sphere in
Vegas, have you guys done that?
Yeah, it's crazy.
But you know what also was going on?
I mean, this was more, yeah, this was
when we were in college
was grunge was also--
And that was me, I was like, yes.
Yeah.
Did you hop on that
early when it came out?
Cause we missed it.
Yeah, oh no, I loved it.
It was a great reaction
to all that dead stuff too.
Yeah.
To me, the Grateful Dead
movement was toxic positivity.
It was oppressive.
And this was just
angry and like mud on me
and just badass and the
stooge, like all that stuff.
I was so into it.
And I remember when
Nirvana happened, I was like,
what is this?
Yeah, yeah.
Yes, I'll never be in a dream room.
That was right out of college, yeah.
Yeah, well, they were the authentic--
Yes.
To the fake positivity
or the toxic positivity,
they were the authenticity.
Yes, exactly.
And it was so refreshing.
It was, yeah.
No, it was all of that whole scene
and that movie Singles, I tell my kids,
Singles and Reality
Bites are the two movies,
if you really wanna know
what it was like for us
in our early 20s.
Yeah, oh my God, Reality Bites, yes.
Yeah, those two movies.
But that music, and what's
funny is I feel like kids now
are really looking at the
whole grunge scene in the 90s,
like how we looked at the 60s.
Which is crazy to me.
I know, cause I don't
like that 10 years ago.
Exactly.
I know, how crazy was it?
It was like, that was 50
years ago, you're like, no.
No, there's no way.
But I mean, and think about
it, when we were in college
and we were doing all these things,
going to concerts or
whatever, there were no cell phones.
It was more like, meet
me at that one light post
in an hour and you were
hoping we'd find your people
or anything social you wanted to do.
If you weren't home with the landline,
you're just like
hoping you're gonna meet,
run into your friends, that spontaneity.
And they don't have that now.
No, and they have no
need to leave the house ever
between video games and cell phones.
Yeah, no, I'm so
grateful that we had that time
where we could be fully present
and there were those
moments of where everything
just kind of came together.
It just worked out.
Yes, it just worked out.
And it was just-
And we lived to tell about it.
Yeah, it was the universe.
The universe would just,
you didn't have to work at it,
plan it, text about it.
And no one had 24 seven
access to you, which they do now.
And I think that time, I
don't know about for you,
but that was when raves
were starting too, right?
I feel like that was right out of college
that they started.
And for us, I think it
was like our junior year.
I think it was our junior year.
Yeah, like terrain
spotting and all that stuff.
Was that my 20s?
Like, yeah, but the rave
culture and San Francisco,
like warehouse raves.
And I was already like
an adult way too soon.
So I didn't go to any of that stuff.
Yeah, no, we didn't go, but I know
ecstasy was starting
then like up until
then it had just been pot.
We got into the
ecstasy in my junior year.
That was, we used to have
ecstasy parties at our house.
At the house with the girls?
I was at Madison.
Madison was a little ahead
of the curve of many words.
Yes, there were a lot of drugs.
I only ever wanted to do hippie drugs.
To this day, I've never been cocaine.
I'm like, I'm good, I'm really hyper.
We haven't either.
Just weed, shrooms and LSD once.
I felt nothing, thank God.
And I'm like, I'm too scared of LSD.
That's not.
Yeah, yeah.
You might have been tripping your ass off
and didn't know it.
I might've, yeah.
I'm sober.
Yeah, exactly.
And then for us, we smoked
cigarettes and now it's vaping.
And I would trade it.
I would rather see kids smoking
cigarettes and vaping.
Yeah, yeah. And then crystallize their lungs.
Yeah. Yeah.
By the way, I don't know about you guys,
but I mean, I love smoking.
It's the greatest thing in the world.
And I obviously quit it
because I want to live.
But I've told my son, like, smoke,
just every time I see a
smoker and like, if he only knew.
My stepdad just found
some old photo album.
I have no idea where this came from.
Somebody put an album
together, me from college.
I am smoking in every photo.
Yeah, that's funny.
It was so accepted.
You could smoke in restaurants still.
You could smoke in bars.
Airplanes.
Airplanes.
You could still do that then.
Even in like in the early
90s, you could still do that.
What'd you smoke?
Camel light?
I did some camel lights, Marlboro lights.
What was it, an American spirit came out.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Trying to go natural and healthy.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Ridiculous.
The drum roll your own
so you're really healthy.
Yeah, we did that too.
Those were rough on the front.
Rolling jellies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Did you do any study abroad programs?
I did.
And I have to say what's so sick of it,
nicotine is I'm salivating.
So for anybody watching or listening,
it is a highly addictive drug.
It is, it is.
Okay, all right, I need some gum.
Here, I'll just gnaw on this pizza crust.
Yeah, so when the house finally exploded
and then Amy and I with the one,
we still had a sorority
girl in the group, Maria.
It was so funny.
I know what she liked about us,
but the three of us ended up
getting like a really posh,
I don't know why these developers
built these like nice condos, you know?
And then it was like we
had a reaction to all that.
So we moved in there and
still kept doing ecstasy.
But anyway, so yeah,
I went to Italy abroad
back when people could afford to do that.
And it was amazing.
And-
Did they go with you?
Well, Amy and I had a
very codependent relationship
where I would pull back quite a bit.
And I'm like, how much
do we talk about this?
We had a lot of conflict.
I think she would agree with that.
So I was like, I'm going to
Siena, you can't go to Siena.
So she went to Florence.
No way.
Could we be any more
basic bougie bitches?
So we were both in
Italy at the same time,
but we were in different cities.
And I'm like, I'm having my
experience, you have yours.
So we saw-
That's actually a
really healthy communication
at that age with a friend.
A lot of young women
struggle with communicating
with their friends.
A lot of women would
struggle communicating
with their friends.
So the fact that you guys could do that,
it's pretty evolved.
That's true.
You're right, I will-
Yeah, take that.
And you're still friends today.
Yeah. We are, we have-
That's pretty good.
Probably because you didn't go together.
Say it again.
Probably because you didn't go together.
We've had our, you
know, the movie "Beaches",
like we've had our moments.
But we will-
Yes, yes, yes.
Like when the times are really tough,
if we really need a hand,
I call her, she calls me.
Like, nobody knows me
better, nobody knows her better.
Like it's, I don't
know, at a certain point
with an adult
friendship like that, you know,
I think we all hit these
crossroads, like, well,
what are we doing?
You know, are we splitting up?
And we had a very clear
moment in my 30s, in our 30s.
And we both decided,
you know, I don't know
if we articulated it,
but it's like, no, we're-
Right.
This is, come on.
Anyway, so yeah, she was-
Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, and-
Were you alone, where you went?
Did you do this all on your own?
No, I did, it was a program.
So I lived with a family
and there was a group of us.
And so of course there
were horrible dynamics
within the group.
Groups suck, that's
really what it comes down to.
It is impossible to have a healthy group.
Yeah, I got pregnant there, that was fun.
No way.
Yeah, I was very-
An Italian?
An Italian, my American
boyfriend was not really happy.
I was a very busy girl.
I had a lot of fun in
college and I was very fertile
and very stupid.
And you know what's so
funny when you're older
and I don't know about you guys,
but I'm trying to do the math.
I mean, I waited till the
last possible biological moment
to have my son.
So I was dancing on the edge of, oh, oh,
maybe I waited too long, you know?
And then you have to time
it and when I'm re-obulating
and well, you know, you-
Right.
But back then it was
like pregnant, pregnant.
And it's like, oh, it's such bad luck.
No, you're ovulating.
The body is designed to make you horny
and irresponsible in that moment, so.
And you were in Italy.
Oh yeah.
It's a trifecta.
Yeah, it was bound to happen.
And the ecstasy is the love drug, right?
Interestingly enough though,
I feel like the ecstasy is a cuddle drug.
I don't feel like it's a sex drug.
Interesting, yeah.
That would make sense.
And I'd love to blame
it on the ecstasy, Brian,
but it was just me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did you come home when you
found out you were pregnant?
No, I, the man I was involved with there
was in love with me and wanted me to stay
and have the baby and marry him.
And I'm like, I have
to get home and graduate
and I'm gonna make movies.
I'm a film major.
Like, no, bro.
So I did have an abortion in my life.
I did have an abortion there
and I had had one here in the States.
It was traumatic.
And so if you can believe it,
I actually have a comedy set around this,
which is very funny,
but I will not tell you the
funny version now, obviously.
I thought, I am so screwed.
I'm pregnant in Italy?
Like Italy, the most conservative.
I don't wanna say it was the best
experience in my life,
but they treated me like,
it was just interesting.
They was like, it was
so human and humane.
I don't know.
They like put you under.
I don't know.
Does anybody that watches this or listens
just wants to hear this?
I have no idea.
No, I think that there's women
that this would
resonate with, definitely.
Yeah.
So it was like crazy
how nice they were to me
as opposed to here
where the guy was like,
why is she crying?
I'll never forget that.
The guy that did it here.
Oh my God.
Oh my gosh.
No, that's amazing they put you under.
That's wonderful.
They kept you there all
day in a hospital room.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
I've talked in, I did my
story on one of our episodes
and I did share, I also had
an abortion when I was 22,
not Brian, other boyfriend.
And I will say the doctor was nice,
but it was incredibly rushed, sterile.
He did go to a doctor's office,
but it was just very
like, okay, you did it
and then you went home.
And I, looking back now as a 54 year old,
I shouldn't have just gone home
and life shouldn't have
just like continued on.
That hospital stay
would have been amazing
just to have that moment,
because it's not a positive
experience no matter what.
It's not like something that you're like,
yay, I get to go do this.
So the fact that they made this,
they were gentle with you.
And as you said, humane
and honored your experience
for you is amazing.
It was.
It was a shock to me.
You know?
Yeah.
Cause there's always, I
mean, I don't know about you,
but even being pro-choice and all that,
there's still some shame
to what you're like for me.
Of course.
I wasn't proud of
what I was doing, right?
I was actually mad at myself.
And like, how did I get myself in?
And I know how I did.
Yes. But you feel stupid.
So you don't need more
people making you feel that way.
So it sounds like they didn't
make the situation any worse
and actually helped make it
a little bit better for you.
So that's really cool.
1000%.
And yeah, I was just like, where am I?
This is bizarre.
Did your parents know?
Like, did you reach out to your parents?
No, that's a fun story.
So I got back from Italy.
Well, actually first
then my American boyfriend
came to visit me and I
thought I could just pretend
this didn't happen.
And of course I broke down in tears.
And I'm like, I have
to tell you something.
So that was fun.
So it was a love triangle.
Did you guys stay together?
We traveled through
Southern Italy together
fighting and crying and having sex.
And then we had to go back to Siena
cause I owed a paper
to get my 16 credits.
And then my then boyfriend was so upset.
He came to the window.
He's like, "Julia!"
Like it was so crazy.
It was very dramatic.
It was very dramatic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You couldn't wish for more
out of a trip to Italy, frankly.
Yeah.
Definitely sounds memorable.
It's, it's yeah.
And did the Italian guy disappear
or was he also chasing you?
He wanted to stay in touch.
And it's funny, my mother,
that's the only man she's ever met.
They came to visit me and that she loved.
It was so interesting.
I don't know what it was about Bob.
Just gotta call him Bob.
There must've been something about him.
He was lovely.
He was a lovely guy.
I mean, but you know, I have,
avoid an attachment, like 20?
Like, this isn't happening, bro.
Like, you have no idea
where I've been raised.
Right.
But he was, he was very sweet
and we stayed in touch over the years.
And then once I got married and had a kid
and he was Facebook messenger,
marrying me, I'm like,
"No, I think we need to."
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
You're done with that.
Yeah.
So then when did you, when you got back,
did you share with your?
Yeah, so I went to the
gynecologist with my mom,
a twofer, I don't know.
Like she was seeing
her and then I went in.
And this is so crazy.
We went at lunch afterwards and she said,
"So why didn't you tell me
that you had an abortion in Italy?"
I'm like, "What? The doctor told you?
Like that's illegal."
Yeah.
Did the doctor tell her?
Yes.
Wow.
So crazy.
And you weren't underage or anything.
You were an adult.
Yeah.
Was HIPAA a thing then?
I don't remember.
I'm pretty sure.
I don't know.
Oh no.
HIPAA didn't roll
around until the early 2000s.
Yeah, so I don't know.
It maybe wasn't illegal.
It wasn't illegal.
All right, well it
was super, super shitty.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I had to assure my mom it was okay.
And like, let me tell you
about the 20 other ones.
Just kidding.
I'm joking.
It's a joke.
It could be like, "But
there could be 20 more,
but there's not."
No, exactly.
Exactly.
I mean, knowing my mom,
she was probably relieved, frankly,
because I think she looks at her life
as having a kid so young and dereguled.
So much for her, but anyway.
Right, so yeah, I could see that.
I could see both sides of that.
So that was your junior
year when all this was?
Junior year abroad,
then came back senior year.
And I really sound
like I was a troublemaker.
I really wasn't.
I was pretty middle of the
road, Madison, Wisconsin gal.
But anyway, yeah. You were Gen X.
I was Gen X, exactly.
We can just say that.
We all saw them.
I remember that.
Like we were crazy as, we
were 30 when we were 10.
Yes.
We just took that energy and vibe
through high school, through college.
Once we were out, we just were chaos,
like Tasmanian devil.
Yes.
Doing all the things
and not thinking at all,
because that's how we were ranked.
Yes, how about age 14?
I'm in bars.
I don't know about you guys.
Like bars, age 14.
I looked like an adult, had my fake ID.
Kids don't look older than that.
In our town, they would have warehouses
and they would have like teen clubs.
And we'd go to that,
but everyone was drinking
and smoking clove cigarettes.
Do you remember clove cigarettes?
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Oh, that's gross.
And so it's like, I just can't even
picture my kids doing.
No, no.
I think I'm 13.
Yeah.
Everything you've described so far
sounds totally normal to me.
Yeah, we could.
I'd never let any of my kids do it.
No, exactly.
And I don't need my
son to know any of this.
Whoops, no.
Does he know anything?
If he watches, well,
he'd be like, oh my God.
Oh, it's fine.
I mean.
He's old enough.
He is old enough.
I mean, I don't have
him come to comedy shows.
Yeah.
Yes, as needed at the
age appropriate time.
Knowledge at the age of pro.
It's not like she's gonna be like,
look at this episode.
She'll share it when he fill his ready.
Fast forward to the abortion story.
You'll like that.
Well, see, I would want him to know that.
I would want him to know that.
Right, right.
There's like this
feminist in me that's like,
Yeah.
I feel like I don't have
a problem sharing facts
about my life with him,
but by the time I'm on stage doing it,
it's so, I think it
would be very upsetting
to see your parent.
It doesn't make sense.
Do you know what I mean?
Like why is she making fun
of this painful experience
about herself?
I just also,
It's a new one.
Half my stuff is about him
so that he can't see that.
Yeah.
That'll come with age.
Yeah, with the right
age, you get all that.
So then your senior
year, you were in Madison,
back in Madison?
Yeah, back in Madison and,
Did you live with Amy again?
Oh yeah, we had another epic,
just, it was bad, man.
It's really crazy
what we've been through.
I remember our biggest fight was,
I have always loved to
cook and serve people food
and whatever.
And I made this incredible meal for her.
And to this day, when
I get mad at my son,
when he's not eating,
I remember this fight,
but she wasn't coming out of her room.
And I'm like, "You get out
here and eat this meal now!"
It was so crazy.
We were like an old married couple.
Oh my, was it just the
two of you that year?
Yes. Did you have other people?
And I was fallen to the
film world at that point.
She had become a theater person.
So we were in different worlds, you know?
Was that your major?
They didn't have a film
major, but they had com arts.
So yes, I was a film head, my whole plan.
I made horrible 16 millimeter films
and she was my news,
she was always in them.
And I mean, they really were horrible.
And yeah, screenwriting, all that stuff.
And then my big plan was I
was gonna move to New York
and be this gorilla
filmmaker and I moved to LA.
Now why did you decide to move?
After the break, sorry, just kidding.
(both laughing)
Why did you decide to move to LA?
So you graduated, you moved to LA.
Why did you decide to move to LA?
So I graduated, I started
working in Chicago as a PA.
Also, by the way, back then,
do you remember getting out of college
and you had to find a job?
There was no internet, like
I remember the yellow pages
that looked after film.
Like I, how did any of us do anything?
If you left your
market where your parents
maybe had some
connections, you were on your own.
Yeah, classified ads,
yellow pages, hit the street.
Classified, I remember that.
Circling the jobs,
walking into these businesses
and be like, can I
fill out an application?
Just going to the next business, yeah.
And they wait for them
to call your landline
and leave a message on
your answering machine.
Answering machine.
Yes, yeah, it's crazy.
You know what's crazy, and I know this is
a non-linear moment, but I
don't know about your kids.
My son is obsessed with
the 80s and I don't know why.
Yeah, I think that's a thing right now.
Is it?
A lot of kids, yeah.
The 80s and the 90s.
So funny.
They think that time was like magical
and nothing bad was happening.
They romanticized it.
They romanticized it, yeah.
It was a pretty good time, wasn't it?
Yeah, yeah. I don't know.
Well, we were all having fun,
but we probably were so
used to blocking out any risks.
Yeah, we were like, "Yeah, it's all fine.
"Everything's fine, let's just go."
So, you know.
I don't know if we blocked it out
as much as we just, it wasn't there.
Or we didn't care.
Our parents weren't in
our heads like we are.
True, true, yeah.
With our kids.
Yes, I mean, my son
believes there is danger
around every corner because
I told him that was the case.
It's funny because I
think Gen Xers have anxiety
from the parental neglect,
but our kids have anxiety
that we've put in them of fear.
Both have anxiety, but
for two different reasons.
Totally.
My son is probably six
feet tall, 160 pounds,
and he's still terrified
he's gonna be kidnapped
and trafficked, I have
a whole bit about it.
And it's all because I
told him when he was,
I was just, "How do I get
him to not leave my side?"
You know?
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, we told our kids that,
you can't go to the bathroom.
I'm like, "You guys are a
hot commodity on the streets.
"Listen, they could get
a lot of money for you."
So, just remember that.
Unfortunately, there's some truth to it.
There is, that's what's--
Well, that's, you know.
So, you didn't go straight
to LA, you went to Chicago?
So, I went back to Chicago,
you know, I live with my
folks, they were on vacation,
I opened up the Yellow
Pages, like, "Film, film."
I don't even know how,
but I found the first
production in Chicago.
And I will say this about
Gen X, like, we get shit done.
I was like, "I will figure this out."
So, I founded production, I
called them, just cold call.
I went in, I was
like, "You gotta hire me."
You know, and they hired me as an intern,
and then they got in trouble.
And they're like, "We have to pay you."
I'm like, "You don't have to?"
They're like, "No, we have to pay you."
I'm like, "How do you?"
So, I started off working for $250 a week
as a locations assistant.
I thought, "This is
amazing, you know, this is crazy.
"I'm getting paid to be in a movie set."
And I'm pausing,
because I'm trying to figure
out how much of the next part,
I want to tell you.
So, I'm going to tell
you a shorter version.
Okay.
Okay, well, this is the...
So, as much as I'm a love avoidant,
I also fall in love really quickly.
That might be the thing.
So, I've had a lot of relationships.
I don't know if that was important.
Okay, I'm on a movie set,
and I've fell in love with this guy,
and we moved in together.
I moved in quickly with people.
I was like, "Let's probably..."
Because...
The movie.
Yes, I'm like, "What's the big deal?
"Let's just get a place together."
The movie, that's what you do.
That's hilarious.
I can do some wallpaper.
Oh my God.
You should have been like,
"Can you wallpaper?
"I'm heading into that."
Yes, that is hilarious.
I never...
That's why I was like,
"Yeah, what's the big deal?
"Let's go have a take."
Oh, Lord.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so,
hopefully you know this about me by now,
from the time you've been on the phone.
If anything I'm saying feels
too in the weeds or boring,
you can just cut me off,
because I can get lost in
the next chunk of details.
No, go for it.
Okay, so,
my mom was a very big
deal in Chicago at the time,
and she's like trying to help
me out with her connections.
And the only connection she had
was with like this insurance guy.
I'm like, "This is my
Hollywood connection?
"I am so screwed."
But what I didn't realize is he insured
and bonded all the films in Hollywood.
Like it was actually a big...
I just didn't even know about that role.
And then he introduced me
to this like real estate mogul in town.
And again, I'm like, "I'm
not gonna get anywhere."
But it turns out he was
financing movies in Hollywood.
So we became fast friends.
He used to fly me
around on his private jet.
And yeah, anyway.
That's nice.
So what were you in
like your early twenties,
or was this in your twenties?
Yeah, I was 21.
Yep, it was nice.
It was a little crazy.
So you're living with the new guy
and flying on a private jet.
Yeah, so he kept trying to...
He got me a job as a PA in some movie.
And I went off and did that.
And then finally he was like,
"Well, if you wanna come out to LA,
you can be my assistant."
So yeah, I was an assistant.
And then I got bumped
up ridiculously fast.
We started a new company
and all of a sudden I
was a very fancy executive.
I was a...
And how old were you?
I think I was 22 or 23.
Wow.
Yeah, I mean, it's a young town.
Like they don't like you.
Older with experience here.
They like their executives really young.
But anyway, we were
starting this whole...
But I did work for
him for quite some time.
Yes.
So did you move into alone then?
Into a place? Yeah, then I got a
little studio out in the hills
and in Beechwood Canyon.
And I was happy
because it was a new place.
I was like, "New place, new place."
New place.
There's a theme.
Exactly.
So this would have been
during like, what, the mid 90s?
It was right after the riots.
I moved out to LA.
I remember that.
There was a store on Melrose.
It was called Great Balls of Fire.
And obviously
somebody thought it was funny
and it had burned to the ground.
It was like half burned.
And that is burned in my memory.
That was the heart of the riots too,
I think that area, right?
Yes. Melrose area.
Yes.
And then OJ happened right after.
So that's how it went.
Yeah, that was wild.
You were there.
I was there, man.
I was there.
And then we had our first earthquake.
I was like, "Hell no, I'm leaving LA."
And I didn't.
And they say if you get
through your first earthquake,
do they have earthquakes in Portland?
No, I don't think we, nothing.
I think when I lived up
there too at the time,
they would happen, but
they were like in the middle
of the night and they were minor.
Yeah, you didn't feel anything.
Nothing like what you guys went through.
No, no.
Or like San Francisco.
What was it, the mid 90s?
Yeah, there was the big one.
That was, yeah, the 80s.
Yeah, yeah.
So this is the Northridge?
Did just Northridge
earthquake mean anything to you?
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay, so I was there for that.
That was, wow.
Yeah, I stayed.
You had a lot happen.
Oh, a lot, a lot.
That's a good thing about being Gen X.
We've all had a lot.
Yeah, that's true.
And as long as you just
keep moving, you're good.
Exactly.
I think it's interesting,
because I think I wrote about this.
This was the pre-Me Too movement time.
This was, I find this an
interesting period of my life
because I was raised by this incredibly,
bulbusting feminist mother,
but she had also come up
in the kind of Don Draper,
Mad Men time.
So I can only imagine
what she had to put up with
as she was coming up.
So on the one hand, she taught me
never to rely on a man for anything.
So I just was like, great.
And I married men with
no money my whole life.
She's like, that's not what I meant.
Like you said, never
rely on men with money.
But she'd been so
burned from my grandfather
and all that stuff.
So, yeah.
So, I don't know.
I think we were like a
misinformed feminist generation
where we were taught,
don't look vulnerable,
don't be shrill, don't
cry, don't get upset.
You look hysterical.
So you just shoved everything down.
But then as I progressed in Hollywood,
I experienced other
forms of discrimination,
which even now, as I say it, I'm like,
I feel like I'm whining, but it was bad.
It was bad.
Well, just because?
Like there were things
like this said to me.
I usually just pull
these two out and then again,
the picture is painted.
There was a director I was working for,
I think I was executive
vice president of production
at the time.
I sent notes on his cut and I wasn't
there when he said it.
So I don't know if he actually said it,
but it almost doesn't matter.
But supposedly or
allegedly he got the notes
in a fax machine paper coming out.
I was so upset he started
to jump up and down and say,
I'm gonna chop her head off and,
oh, probably she was a trigger warning.
I'm so used to this.
I'm gonna chop her head
off and fuck her dead corpse.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
And the craziest part about that,
it was told to me by my boss at the time
who thought it was so funny
and then kept telling
that story in front of people
with me at the table.
And I just had to laugh about it.
And it's crazy, what the hell?
It's crazy.
Oh yeah, that's crazy.
It's crazy. That was okay.
It's actually trauma.
It is, it is.
It's trauma.
Yes.
And it's repeated exposure to trauma.
Yes.
And we can go talk about
the patriarchy and all that,
but it's just the way
with women having treated
and even through the Gen X women
and the Gen X women I
think just grinded through.
Yeah. Just compartments,
light, took it, took it.
And I think it's another reason,
like with our children especially,
we have a daughter,
is the Gen Z women do
not put up with shit.
Which I love.
Yes.
But I think it's because
the Gen X women had to.
Thousand percent.
And we were like,
"No, we're changing this.
Guess what we're gonna give you?"
The Gen Z women, have fun with that.
No, thank God for the Me Too movement.
Yes, yeah.
Is it so like that, do you think?
No, no, it really revolutionized things.
Yeah, cool.
Because of social media,
you could get canceled very fast now.
Sorry.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But that was that, the Me Too movement,
wasn't that a lot of Gen
X, would you say women?
Was that, is Ashley Judd Gen X?
She started it.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, and Rose McGowan.
She's Gen X.
So I think the Gen X
women finally were like,
they broke.
Fuck this.
We're done.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If I had stayed as an executive,
I would have been with them.
I mean, what was the
other story I usually tell is,
we was in a boardroom
meeting and I laughed
at some man's expense who was like 20
years older than me.
He's like, "You think that's funny, you
stupid fucking bitch?"
And everybody laughed about it.
If that happened today, you'd get fired.
Yeah.
I can't even imagine that.
I work in a corporate environment.
Yes.
That's just not happening.
Yes.
No.
The dude is walked out.
Exactly.
And it was all very
like, and then the other.
Thank God, thank God
all of that has changed.
Yes.
And it isn't just in the work area,
because talking about social media,
you can be filmed anywhere now.
Right.
And so everyone can be held accountable.
Yeah.
Right.
And so everyone--
It does suck for kids though.
I do feel bad for our kids.
1000%.
It was nice to be able to
smoke if you wanted to, right?
You could get in trouble under each
smoking or whatever.
Yeah.
Now it keeps you out of college maybe.
Yeah. No, it's horrible.
They have no idea when
they're posting stuff.
They shouldn't.
No, no.
And like I know that they
say that Gen Z doesn't dance.
We all dance when we
would go out, we dance.
And the millennials dance.
But they don't dance.
When they go to bars and
stuff, they just kind of,
although I know my
daughter and her friends well,
but it's because
they're like, we don't care,
but it's not a group thing where
everyone's doing it.
I think a lot of it's due to,
they don't wanna get filmed.
Mocked.
So make them more inhibited.
It's very sad.
So that part's bad.
It's good and bad.
Yeah, I like everything.
It stops some people
from maybe hourly doing
completely inappropriate things
because they might get filmed.
But then the younger generation,
it also can make them more inhibited.
But thank God.
So now in the industry,
would you say is completely different
than when you first
were there in your 20s?
Well, I'm out of that
game, but absolutely.
I went from that to being a screenwriter,
which I didn't experience
any of that, which was lovely.
And then I moved into reality TV,
and that was when I
returned to the corporate world.
And I hadn't been in it for so long.
And that's when I was
suddenly like, you're saying,
"Whoa, there are rules and paperwork.
If anything, I'm worried.
I'm gonna joke around too much."
Right, right.
But--
It's HR.
Yes. Yeah.
I had never met an HR.
That is so funny.
I'm just realizing we never had HR.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You couldn't have had it back then.
Most people think HR is there for you.
They're there for the company.
Right.
They're gonna make sure
execs don't do stupid shit,
illegal shit, discriminatory things.
Yeah.
Protect the company.
When you were a screenwriter,
did you sell any of your stuff?
I did.
I sold features and pilots,
and you have not seen any of them
because none of them got made.
And you can actually
make a kind of decent living
selling things and not having them made.
But at a certain point, if
you don't get things made,
then they show you the door.
But it was during this period.
Sorry, go on.
I was gonna say, but you
were paid for what you wrote.
I was paid for what I wrote.
It was amazing.
It felt amazing.
I was sad and
frustrated when it didn't take,
like it didn't have
the traction to really,
but at the end, I was always like,
most people don't even get this.
Like this is good.
So it was great.
It must be interesting
though to create something
and there's no outlet
for the production of it.
So it kind of just exists, right?
Well, that's my love, standup comedy,
not to jump right to that,
but it exists immediately.
There's no notes.
Well, the notes are the audience.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, it was the
gatekeepers or whatever.
This could be another
five hour podcast on comedy,
but I would just say,
yes, this comedy for me
is a massive sigh of relief after years
of being an executive,
after years of being a screenwriter,
of years of being a reality TV producer.
Like it's just so pure.
So what got you there?
The comedy.
Well, let's see reality,
but I feel like was
there something in reality?
There were some
shenanigans in reality TV still.
I just want to be clear.
It's not perfect out there.
I just want to...
Did you work on any reality shows that...
That you would know?
That we know?
Maybe.
I did a lot of food stuff.
Do you guys watch food stuff?
Like American barbecue showdown?
No?
No, I think the closest
would be the chef one.
I can't remember where they battle.
Oh, yeah.
They have to make the frilly pass.
Yeah, I can't
remember what that's called.
Sam and I, I don't know.
Something.
Okay, but you did
stuff like cooking stuff.
I did docs.
I did whatever.
I mean, it was my
third leg in the business
and it was a fallback plan,
a place to get paid to tell
stories without healthcare
and a decent wage.
It's a great world.
So did you travel?
Was it all in LA?
I came up through post, which means,
like writers basically get
thrown into the post pile.
Meaning production side
goes out and shoots the thing
and then they hand the footage to post.
And I see you are musicians or musicians?
Musicians.
We attempt, but none of us
really do any of it well.
We own enough instruments to have a band,
but no one can play any of them.
I find that they're hard to believe.
It's just for show,
it's not for lack of shame.
Just completely suck.
Yeah, that could be
viral, the band that sucks.
I like that.
Yeah, yeah.
They look, it looks good though.
They look awesome.
You have a beautiful setup.
I did not even compliment you.
I love the setup, the
depth of field behind you,
the plant, it's very nice.
Thank you.
That means a lot.
Yeah, it's always appreciated.
In this world, so thank you very much.
That's gorgeous.
Do you like mine, the
broken ceiling head fan
that's missing a thing?
It's very classy.
We can't see that anymore.
Yeah, thank you for pretending.
I like the kiddies though.
I love whenever they walk by.
Oh, I know, and the little tail goes by.
I love that.
So yeah, in post,
it's almost like you're
given a bunch of musical notes
and you make a song out of it.
So they shoot something
and then we take all of it
and you build a script
with scenes and words.
It's really interesting work.
If they paid better and
they had health insurance
and it was unionized,
it'd be a great job.
But it was created as a
union busting work alternative.
So it will, in my opinion, we'll never,
well, now the whole town's over.
I don't know how much
of that you know about.
So, okay, so yes.
How long did you do that?
The reality.
Longer than I anticipated.
I remember when I went into my first day
and I felt like a failure.
Like I didn't hack it as a writer.
It was very embarrassing
and they brought me my little cubby hole.
I'm like, cubby hole?
It's come to this?
I was so demoralizing
and my name was on it.
I was like, whoa,
whoa, you don't, you don't.
I'm not, this is temporary.
And the woman who brought me
to the cubby hole said, sure.
And just watch away.
Oh my gosh.
Again, that could be in a movie.
I know, she was right.
Oh my gosh. You're in a really,
really tough industry, right?
Yeah.
It's hyper competitive
and just, it's crazy.
It is.
I mean, by the one hand,
I'm crazy that I stayed this long.
On the other hand, I
guess it's impressive
that I found new ways to reinvent myself.
I don't know, but.
Yeah.
No, that makes sense
though with your theme.
Like starting over,
starting over, starting over.
Oh yeah, oh my God, it's all the moving.
It's all the moving.
Well, it's persistent too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And determination, let's be real.
Do I have to pay you at the end of this?
This is better than any
therapist I've ever met.
Oh, that's funny.
When you were done with reality TV,
were you in your 30s by that point?
No, no, I didn't start that until,
so I had my son at 40,
because we started
trying to have him at 36.
And I'm always like this
crazy old lady in the house
who's like, "You kids
better freeze your eggs."
You know, I'm like,
"What are you waiting for?"
Like, "We're not even in a relationship."
I'm like, "I don't care."
No, it's mostly the people,
my friends who are
married and they're young.
I'm like, "What are you
just, if you want them,
just get on with it, trust me."
Yeah, yeah.
So anyway, I don't have any regrets
because I don't have
anything in my bucket list,
so there's that.
But obviously, miscarriages,
miscarriages, whatever.
So by the time I finally had my kid 40,
and I was still writing,
but I was running out of money,
we were doing a short sale on our house,
and the writer's strike had happened,
and I had married a writer.
It was like, not good.
How did you meet your ex-husband?
I was an early adopter of
online dating, I'm glad you asked.
Back when it was weird.
Which one?
I was on an app that I didn't realize
was like a super sexual app.
I thought it was just
for interesting people.
It was called Nerve.com.
I haven't even heard of that.
I don't even know. It's gone.
It's gone.
It shared an engine or
whatever with the onion
and other smarty pants.
Oh, that's awesome.
The smarty pants go.
The bad one, B.
Yeah, and I couldn't understand
why I was getting so many dick pics.
I'm like, what is wrong with this app?
Sony fans now.
Yes, and that's not to--
There's another one now
that's just for hooking up,
but I can't remember what it's called.
Maybe.
Tinder's actually become more of a
relationship thing now.
I think there's so much fun going on.
I don't even think
hooking up's happening anymore.
It's just all, everything's over.
Yeah, I know.
So you were at the
beginning of that whole--
I was at the beginning, yes.
I met my first real, yeah,
I had two big relationships.
All my relationships
are from the internet.
Even this show is from the internet,
so I guess I have to thank it.
You guys are from the internet for me.
Yeah, so we met there,
and that's not to suggest he
was on there for that reason.
Well, maybe he was.
I don't know.
No, I don't think so.
Anyway, it was very sweet
and we fell in love, whatever.
What was this question?
How you guys met?
Yeah, that, we met there.
And so how long from
the time you guys met?
When you got married?
Yeah, not long.
I was 35, so I was like, chop chop.
But within a year?
Yeah, he's also, he likes to be married.
He's a guy that likes to be, you know.
Was he married before you?
He was, yes.
And so he was not one
of these commitment,
fob dudes, and I'd always gone in threes,
like asshole, asshole, nice
guy, asshole, asshole, nice guy.
So he was like the nice
guy after two assholes,
and he was really nice.
And yeah, so we got
married and very fast,
and then of course started to train
of the babies very fast.
And this is what I try
and explain to young people
if you're listening,
miscarriage just take a long time.
You have to recover and
then you have to wait.
And as the years go by,
it's like, then I had an-
How long, I actually
never had a miscarriage.
Oh, you're so lucky.
I know, I know, I know.
I do feel very, very lucky.
But how long do you have to wait
after you had one to try again?
I don't remember the exact time,
but it was, it feels
like it was a couple months
or something, like
your body has to recover.
I don't recall.
The real time suck
though was they thought
the reason I was
having so many miscarriages
was because of fibroid tumors.
That's a sexy topic
brought to you by fibroid tumors.
I've had them.
Okay.
Were your pain- I know about them.
You know about them.
I do, yeah.
How many, did you have painful ones?
Were you like bleeding and stuff?
No, mine weren't bad at all.
No, I was bleeding so bad.
This was in, I think
this started in my mid 40s.
I was bleeding so bad.
I became anemic and it was,
my cramping was like labor pains.
Right.
And it was affecting my life.
Like it got to the
point where I couldn't go
and participate in things with them
because I was laying in bed.
Yeah.
And I ended up having a hysterectomy.
Oh, wow.
I did, but I'd already had my kids.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I kept my ovaries, but it freed me
from the bleeding and everything.
Oh my God.
Yeah, but you had, it
sounds like that was affecting
your fertility. I
didn't have any symptoms.
I had no symptoms.
They did an ultrasound and they're like,
you have, like most of your
uterine cavity is blocked.
So like, wow.
So they did the surgeries
and that took almost a year
to recover from that.
That was a big--
Okay. And then--
Because they went in
and removed them, right?
They removed the tumors
and it was like a C-section
on steroids, you know?
Did you have C-section or vaginal?
No, it was with the robot.
Oh, wow.
And yeah, it was a whole thing.
I only have like four little cuts
that are maybe half
an inch on my stomach.
You wouldn't even know.
And so they, and then
they removed everything
vaginally, I think.
Oh, wow.
It was with the robot.
No, it was very--
Yeah, more laparoscopic, yeah.
Laparoscopic, yeah.
It was 2020, I had it done.
Yep, there was something about mine
where they were positioned, I don't know.
So they had to cut you like a C-section?
Yeah.
And when you don't leave
with a baby after that,
that's not a fun recovery.
That was--
Yeah, because you were
in the hospital, what,
like three, four days?
I don't even know if
it's that long, right?
They like to kick you
out and get the bed back.
But it was--
That's true, that's, yeah.
But that was the first surgery.
Oh, the recovery was intense.
So the C-section was actually nothing
when I went back in.
Like, those child's play,
but they also had a baby.
Right, right, right, right.
So once you had the
surgery and you recovered,
then did you get pregnant?
Yep, and it was full term immediately.
So it was amazing.
I'm surprised.
How long did it take you
trying and having miscarriage
before they finally did the ultrasound?
I mean, they may have
done it, I can't remember.
They may have thought
like it was a theory.
It wasn't like 100%, you know?
Because I got pregnant right
away, as we've established.
So I was getting pregnant,
but just losing it every--
Yeah, yeah.
You had three miscarriages,
and after that, that's when--
Yeah, so I wonder if they
would have done the ultrasound
and taken care of the fibroid sooner.
I don't know.
If that were, I don't know, yeah.
Then they had that like--
That blows me away.
What was that?
That blows me away,
that just blows me away,
that to your point, how the hell do you
not piece it together?
Yeah.
I was always surprised that women's
healthcare is ignored.
And I'm always like, dude,
that's just what we go through
all the time with everything.
I've been shit on too for my responses.
It's being totally ignorant.
Yeah.
That blows me away though.
Well, it's amazing,
you're just saying this,
and I'm like, yeah, why didn't he do it?
I've never thought like that.
I just kind of assumed--
Because you're a woman.
Yeah.
If it was a fibroid blocking the man's
penis, they would have--
I'm starting to believe that.
I've resisted it's
because you're a woman.
I'm starting to believe it.
It is, I'm telling you.
That's crazy.
Don't even get me
started on perimenopause
and how no one talked to Gen X.
We didn't know
anything, and all of a sudden,
we're in perimenopause
and we're having depression
and brain fog and gain 20 pounds.
And I feel like we're
going crazy, but God forbid,
anyone told shit that
can start at age 35,
because none of our
mothers talked about it.
Yeah, unpleasant.
So there's so many
women that are being treated
for anxiety and depression that probably
are in perimenopause.
And can do some
hormone replacement therapy.
So that's one thing
I'm big on is Gen X women
need to talk about it
so that the younger women
are prepared, because we weren't.
You will be happy to know,
I talk about my menopause
on stage to people in
their 20s, and I talk about,
oh, I do not, that's a really crude joke.
Sometimes I end up
having, because I do the creams,
the compound creams, and
sometimes I'll have them
on my clothing and I'll have to say,
this is not what you think.
This is splooge.
This is not a Monica Lewinsky situation.
It is the opposite.
Yes, yes.
Wouldn't it be exciting if
it was, but I would tell you.
Oh my God, yeah, no.
No.
Not top of mind.
I do, yeah, I love it.
And I also talk about how
we're all just sacks of chemicals,
and the way I know this is,
because I overdid it one day
with my testosterone,
and I wanted to have sex
with everything, I'd
never had that urge before.
It was, I was like edging all day,
and it was so uncomfortable though,
that the woman in me went out.
The woman was like,
no, we don't like this,
must stop this, you know?
Balance back out, balance back out.
Well, you know they say to
only do it in the morning,
because it can keep you awake.
Oh, the testosterone at night, really?
You don't do it later
in the day or at night,
because it gives you a, like with men,
that's why they have a,
not just the sex drive,
just that like, not aggressiveness,
but you know what I mean?
Like that oomph,
because it gives you that.
So they say do it in the morning.
That's what I was told, and I asked why,
and she said because it
might keep you awake at night.
The oomph, the male oomph.
Yeah, I do that.
I didn't know that.
I do the patch, do you
do the estrogen patch?
No, I've been doing
these compound creams.
I think I got caught up
with like a very expensive
Beverly Hills witch
doctor, and got completely like
Grandma Nigerian Prince into this guy,
and now I'm stuck with
him and his magical creams.
But he is retiring, and I am literally
looking for somebody
to like save me, I
don't wanna not have them.
So I think I might do the patch.
But finding, sorry, you go.
No, I was gonna say, I
get it through my OB.
The OBs will do it.
I need a new OB, that's the problem.
And I am auditioning them
right now, which is so fun.
Yeah.
It's so fun finding somebody new
to take care of my lady parts.
Well, because--
Brian, are you enjoying this part?
I mean, two two.
That's the best thing, yeah.
Two two.
So many OBs though.
I hear this.
This is another complaint.
Yeah.
There's so few OBs
focused on midlife for women.
It's all still babies, babies.
And so there's just those
random ones that will focus
on perimenopause,
menopause, hormones, hysterectomies,
all the things, like not just,
you don't just get a
hysterectomy midlife.
I know younger women do too.
But they need more OBs to focus on that
because there's all of us
Gen X ladies are in our midlife
and we don't need to be on
the floor with the babies
or we're like being
rushed in for 15 minutes
because your doctor is
seeing so many pregnant women
and they only have so much time.
So now I actually see a nurse
practitioner in the practice
and she can do all the
same things the OB can.
So look into that, a
nurse practitioner in--
Interesting.
The medical group or
whatever, you know what I mean?
Okay, see, that's so funny.
I just rejected somebody
because I was sent to this office
and then they were gonna meet with me.
I'm like, wait, it's just the nurse?
No shade to nurses, but it's--
Yeah, the nurse practitioner is great.
She can order all the same stuff.
She prescribed the testosterone cream.
I have an estrogen patch and I take
progesterone at night
in a pill form and
that will knock you out.
You will fall asleep.
It's like a natural sleeping pill.
I really like to not have these
mysterious white stains
all in my clothing.
That would be--
Yeah.
You at least have a little
bit, just the testosterone.
Do it in the morning, it
absorbs and then it's--
It has to be good for the bit, right?
Oh, it's a great bit.
And you know what's funny about it?
I'm always fascinated.
I can't believe how many young men
wanna hear about menopause.
I'm like, really?
They find it really funny.
I don't know what that is.
I don't know if it's
because they're kids of Gen Xers.
I don't know, but I'm always--
However you're
getting the information out,
you're doing the work.
Keep doing it.
I even had this idea to
embarrass them in a fun way
where I would lean
out with my microphone,
tell me what you think menopause is.
And they actually--
You knew.
I'm like, what?
Wow.
Interesting.
I love that.
That gives me hope.
Yeah.
But it is LA, it is LA,
so this is the land of--
You'll have to let us know
now that you're taking it
on tour, which we're gonna get to,
like you find the men in
other parts of the country
are as attuned as in LA.
But how long were you and
your ex-husband together?
We were together all in 10 years.
And yeah, yep.
And then you co-parented?
Yes, yes.
Our son was seven.
I have to say, as a child of divorce,
it was a bummer, like I didn't want this.
And I think we all, well you guys, kudos.
Are your parents together?
His would still be.
His dad had passed away in 2007,
but they would have still been married.
So he comes from like
this perfect family,
leave it to Beaver,
traditional background.
And I came from psychotic
three divorces on both parents.
Right, sorry, you told me that, sorry.
Yeah, no, no, half
siblings, step siblings,
all the craziness.
So what's ironic is that we
both wanted the same thing
because I didn't have it and he did.
You broke the cycle.
What do you think the secret is
that you were able to break the cycle?
Determination.
And we were best friends for three years
before we got together.
And that friendship, when
life gets ugly and shitty,
no matter what, we
still were best friends.
Even if I wanted to
kill him in his sleep,
I didn't because he was my best friend.
I survived a couple attempts.
He survived, but, and
there's times you hate each other
through the years, but
it was that friendship.
It was a friendship.
I'm with you.
Interesting, I feel like I
was my most me in college
and I could see had I had
the emotional wherewithal
or parenting, if I had
grown up, I don't know.
I could have had a lasting relationship
with somebody I met in college.
Do you know what I mean?
There's a familiarity
that I think you guys have
with each other when it's
right that is so wonderful.
And I've been looking
for it my whole life.
Yeah, I always tell,
and my kids know this,
but I think it's so
important to have friendship,
like true friendship,
like where you treat
each other as best friends.
Because you treat your best
friends so well, typically.
You would never do really horrible things
to your best friend.
And so I always say you should be
treating your spouse
as well as you would treat
your cherished best friend
or better.
And that's always my advice,
is to try to find that friendship.
So what's funny is I
dated his best friend,
not best friend, very
good friend through college.
So it allowed us to become platonic
friends through college.
And then right before we graduated,
we realized we love each other.
That was nice.
Your friend was the warmup act.
And then you came in.
Absolutely.
He was not happy about that.
Was there crossover?
There was some...
No, but what's funny
is when you have a group
of friends in college, like
half of them think there was.
So they turned on us
and the other half don't.
And even like Facebook
came back, came around
and we all kind of
reconnected with people we knew.
And that group still, I
think they treated us like,
they didn't believe us.
I think it was shocking.
It was shocking.
Wait, how many years?
Exactly, that's crazy.
Yeah, yeah.
It was very strange.
So it was a big deal because
my boyfriend and I were like
the couple in the friend group.
And then it was a
big, big traumatic thing
at the end of our college years together,
I guess for everybody, I don't know.
Apparently a lifelong scar.
They're all in therapy
talking about you guys still.
How could they do that to us?
I think, could be.
And then one day one of
our shorts from the podcast
is gonna come up on Facebook and be a
jump scare for them.
There they are.
Yeah, happy marriage.
Why are you at a, it is so
funny to me now as an adult
who's, as I like to say, seen some shit.
That's our age, we've seen some shit.
You didn't mean upset about like cheating
with a boyfriend or something like that.
It's not.
No, no.
That's not cheating.
No, no, no, no, no, not at all.
Not at all, it's so funny.
So that is funny.
So you guys, when you separated though,
you were, it was
amicable and you've been able
to co-parent together
and everything's good.
We had a tough time in
the beginning and yeah.
I think he was, yeah, he was very hurt
and I still feel
horrible about to this day.
I never wanted to hurt him.
It's really hard when
one person wants the thing
and the other doesn't.
But I think he would
probably agree at this point.
I don't know that we were really,
really the right people for each other.
But I also have no regrets.
I know it sounds cliche,
but we had this beautiful son together
and it has been eight years
and we are very good co-parents now.
But it was a challenge at first.
And I'm sure.
Yeah.
You know what's weird
is I know people who,
and nothing even interesting happened.
There's no cheating,
you know what I mean?
I know people with the
craziest, most toxic stories
and they are best friends with their,
I think it almost
helps to have a bad guy,
something to point to.
Yeah.
I don't know what that is.
I'm like, you forgave them?
I mean, that's cool,
but it's just interesting.
It's almost like they
trauma bonded or something.
Yes, and they triangulate.
They're like, yeah, that person.
Yeah, so they couldn't totally separate
because they're trauma bonded.
But for you guys,
there wasn't that trauma.
So you just kind of can drift stuff.
You just kind of drift it.
So, but I'm glad that now
you guys have found some.
Yeah, and our kid's
amazing and he's a great dad.
And yeah, I mean, I
don't recommend divorce.
It's not fun.
No, I know.
I know, no, it's amazing how
many Gen Xers have divorced
or are divorcing now midlife.
Well, I hope so.
Just kidding.
I'm not here to celebrate.
I am not here to dance
on the grave of divorce.
I just want to be clear.
Well, we've talked about
just the whole also Gen X.
We've talked about Gen X men,
emotional development, communication,
but I think so many of us as children,
grinded through, grinded through.
Our emotions were not
acknowledged, discussed.
We didn't know how to
identify what we were feeling.
And then we got married.
And so it's a wonder that
any of them have survived,
any of the marriages,
because right now we
say we grew up together.
And that's when I say determination,
because there were times when,
because of not having that preparation,
how to communicate, it
was just almost like,
we're gonna communicate.
I don't know how, but we
got to figure this out.
No one taught us.
So, but it's not easy.
No, and for listener
viewers who just heard me say,
I'm not here to dance
on divorce is grace.
I just want to be clear.
I was talking about my business,
my, of the big D.
If divorce stops, I don't have a show.
But I was joking.
I just want to put that in context.
Now I'm gonna come back
to what you were saying,
because the little voice, the publicist
in my head was like,
you need to button that one up.
No, I was gonna say,
there was this one book
that I do recommend to
couples who are struggling.
It just brings clarity.
And I think it's called "Hold Me Tight."
And we did all the therapy.
We tried.
That's the other thing I think.
It's not like, what if
we, like we really tried.
But that book had this one metaphor,
this one thing in there.
And anytime I have
friends who are struggling
and wondering, I mean, this image,
and I feel like couples like
you, it's a very easy answer.
And it's just, are you
both on the dance floor?
If you're both on the dance floor,
you can accomplish anything.
Yeah.
When somebody's left the dance floor.
Yeah.
That's a great analogy.
No, it is.
It is.
Even if you're
fighting on the dance floor,
you're both there.
Exactly.
You are engaged.
You are invested.
Yes.
I get chills thinking about it
because I knew I had
left the dance floor.
Well, it's so true.
You both have to commit
to trying to make it work
and figure it out and be committed to it.
It's to her point though, it's, you know,
I mean, I feel very lucky.
I think we both do.
But you do work at it.
Of course.
And you have to evolve.
Especially guys, right?
Gen X guys that were
fairly obtuse, I think.
And you just have to, I
don't know, somehow you evolve.
And I think maybe it's through kids.
You had said something earlier
where I think you've
learned about yourself.
It was the ADHD thing, right?
ADHD, yeah.
Yeah, your son.
And you're like, oh my
gosh, I see myself in him.
You kind of see yourself in your kids.
And that helps, I think,
kind of keep it all together.
Yeah. I don't know if that
makes sense or not, but.
Well, I think us coming from school,
from when we were young
and having such history
and vetted, we are so vetted.
Like we don't have to explain anything
or pass to each other.
That does help.
So to your point, when you
said you could have seen yourself
in a long-term relationship
from college, I mean, yeah.
It makes sense.
It does make sense.
Yeah.
And you're in that situation.
Yeah, and my two best friends out here,
people are like, who's
really happily married?
Like, I know happily married people.
I'm not anti-marriage.
Like, I'm pro-marrying the right person.
But these two friends of mine
are both college
sweethearts as well, or two couples.
And I know that that's not,
but they're supposed to be together.
They're both I guess for.
But I love that metaphor.
Not mine, it is
trademarked, hold me tight, great book.
It's a whole workshop.
But I will tell you kind of
funny, sad, mostly funny note
about the American
boyfriend that came to Italy.
He was the one for me that got away.
And I regret it.
We didn't really know each other.
But in my mind, over the years,
I always became if only, if only.
So I did that thing that
everyone does on Facebook, right?
I like found him.
Yeah. Like, this is gonna
be the thing, you know?
And I wrote him.
And all I said, I'm just
clearly fishing, right?
And I'm like, how's
it going or something?
And he said, oh, Julie, you never change.
And that was the last I heard from him.
I'm like, what the fuck does that mean?
(both laughing) Oh my God.
That's crazy.
Forget about being hurt.
I need to know what's in
the box, you know what I mean?
Like, what did you mean by that?
I mean, you're probably right.
But can you explain that to me?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh my gosh.
That's too much.
That's too much.
Okay, so when did you get into comedy?
Okay, so.
Were you still married or was this post?
No, in fact, my
ex-husband was into comedy,
I think right before our son was born.
So I used to go around to see him
performing and you know.
Oh, okay.
So you said he was a writer too, right?
Yeah, I mean, he was trying out comedy,
you know what I mean?
Okay.
Yeah, so I just remember being exhausted
and not wanting to go to
these late shows anymore
every time I went to go see him perform.
But anyway, I don't know.
I've always been funny my whole life,
but I would see him,
I would see other people doing comedy.
I'm like, I should do that.
And then I just, the years,
I don't know about you guys, just like,
as soon as you have a kid, I mean,
I don't know where it went.
But then we split up
and it wasn't even then.
I kept filling the void,
an unfortunate metaphor with boyfriends
when I left the marriage.
And I really wasn't finding myself,
I was avoiding the pain of the divorce.
And there's no good way to do it.
I'm not shaming anybody who does it.
You just, there's no way
through but through in time.
And then when the time
had gotten to a good place
and reality TV had shit the bed,
which again, I don't know how much this,
Hollywood is like over,
do you know about this?
No.
Well, I feel, I read
a little bit about it.
I'd be curious what your,
Yeah, what is that?
Well, I mean, there's the reality side
and there's a scripted side
and the shortest version
is streaming didn't work.
So it's like, there
are too many streamers.
Like how many, you know what I mean?
Do you even care about any shows anymore?
Like there are so many good shows
that you almost don't
care about them, right?
So it ate itself.
And they claimed they
weren't making money.
I imagine they weren't, but then again,
the writer's strike was
like, they are making money.
They're not paying us enough.
So I don't wanna get
into that side necessarily.
I'm sure they're not
getting paid enough writers,
but I think the
business model was not working
and it was, there was a bubble basically.
And so it affected both
scripted and unscripted
and all the networks started to merge
and companies were
getting slashed and like,
they've just been trying to,
like David Zaslov was
brought in to take over
Warner Discovery and just
kind of, he made HBO Max.
And the whole thinking of that was,
I think he said, you'll be able to find
anything from
succession to Dr. Pimplehopper.
I'm like, oh no.
But it was, I can't remember the number
of how much debt he had to clear,
but it became clear pretty quickly.
It was like, the
producers, like it was easier to,
even if a movie or TV show was done,
it was easier for them not to put it out
and to take the loss to recoup money.
So it was just, I don't know if you're
Game of Thrones fans,
but it was like, okay, it
was a red wedding in town,
like just massive layoffs.
So many people have left
town, writers rooms have shrunk.
Everybody thought
reality would then balloon
because of scripted, but
it didn't because we're all,
you know, basically at
the same teat, if you will,
of the streamers.
So it just, the
business doesn't work anymore,
the business model.
And so as it reburts itself,
there've been so many
financial casualties
for almost everyone I know.
And that was a very lofty way of saying,
everyone I know is out of work.
So work's starting to slow down.
Well, I was just gonna say
a lot of it's left LA too,
right?
It's moved on to other areas.
Because there's been no tax incentives.
I think I just read that maybe it's back.
I don't know. I think the whole
business is just gonna become
peer to peer YouTube.
Like you look at how
our kids consume material.
Like, I just don't
even think we can conceive
of what it's gonna look
like in the end, but it's-
I think that social media, like TikTok,
has taken a huge chunk.
Like I know for myself,
I'll just go on TikTok
at night and not watch TV.
And I know a lot of people like that,
that won't even turn on the TV.
I'm a YouTuber.
Yeah, so I think that reality TV, I
guess, quote unquote,
where it's actually
people, like regular people,
you know what I mean?
Watching regular people.
I think that's taken
a chunk out of things.
I could be wrong.
No, I think you're right.
Like, did I make that worse or better?
No, you're good.
No, you're fine.
Like there's an ad for Jimmy Fallon.
It was like three billion views.
It's all about who's watching it,
the monologue the next day
and the bits the next day.
So yeah, I mean,
everything's changed for all of us.
But I watched my son
and like, I was like,
oh, 28 days later, maybe you're old
enough to see that now.
He's like, I saw it.
I said, where?
He said, YouTube.
I'm like, what?
Okay, well, that's a great movie.
You need to see anyway.
But, and I think for
people not in the business,
they're like, but there's so much stuff.
But if you notice,
there really isn't anymore.
Like a lot of stuff stopped being,
like we're watching
Brooklyn Nine-Nine right now,
you know, like old seasons of it.
Yeah.
Yeah, a lot of people are
watching like older shows.
Yes, because that is by design.
That's how Netflix is like,
hey, you might like this series.
Because they're trying to
avoid making other series.
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
So it's a pretty-
I have a question for you.
Have you ever done
any like major own film,
like a short film?
You mentioned the 16
millimeter back in the day.
No.
Technology's pretty good these days.
You know, Brian, I agree.
And I kick myself all the time
because there is no excuse
to not make my own thing.
Well, time, other things, you know.
No, no, no, but it is true.
I mean, now more than ever,
you can make an entire
movie on your phone, you know?
Yeah.
So you're reminding me
of a goal that I dropped
and I'm going to get back to it tomorrow.
So you just saw my entire soul
disappearing from my body.
Well, I'm in the same boat.
I wanna do something.
I have no background or anything in it,
but I would love to,
because it is sort of accessible.
I don't have a theme.
That's my problem.
I know all the
technical attributes of it.
Free, post, everything,
but I don't have a story.
You mean you wanna drive to film?
I'd love to make a
film, like a short film,
five, 10 minute type of thing.
I don't really have a theme though.
It'll come.
Well, to answer your question, yes,
writing is horrible and
painful and nobody likes it.
And that is why I am not
directing a movie right now,
but it is in my mind to just
finally sit down and do it.
If you do it, you have to let us know.
Oh, of course.
You'll be the first one I'll complain to.
Yeah, come on and talk about it.
That would be awesome.
So because of what was
going on in Hollywood,
did that lead me to comedy?
Yeah, well that and my mom was dying.
So, it's always so strange.
I love when I meet guys
online and they're like,
oh, you're a comic.
How'd you get into that?
It's not good.
Nobody becomes a comic
because of a good story.
You're not gonna like this.
They're like, that's not sexy.
Okay, no, it's not.
My mom died.
Okay, so--
My mom died.
Yeah, so what was I saying?
About your mom, when's she dying?
She never stood a chance.
I don't know about your mom,
but it's like, I have a
whole thing about this too.
It's like, there was no
time for gentle parenting then.
Like they were surviving
and she was a child of trauma.
And, you know, it just,
I have forgiven her for
every whatever, you know,
because I'm just so aware
of what she lived through.
And we wouldn't be this way
had we not had that, you know?
So-- Yeah.
Now there's pros and cons,
definitely pros and cons.
I mean, look, I wish I did that.
Yeah, would've, should've, could've.
Anyway, so yes, so we were
very close, very codependent,
but also I moved 3000 miles.
She's in Chicago, I'm in LA, like, you
know, there's stuff.
And then she got sick and, you know,
it's very hard to show
up and care for somebody
that you have to protect yourself around,
if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah.
So she had cancer.
It was, I can't
remember the name of it, CUPS,
which is Cancer of Unknown Origin.
Oh, yeah, unknown for
sure. 15% of all cancers
are considered cancers,
they can't figure it out.
And then-- Wow.
7%, they finally just go under,
and they just look at
where the tumors are
and they just treat it as if.
So she basically was-- Like has
metastasized already
and they're not sure where the source is.
Correct. Okay, that makes sense.
Yeah.
So that was about a
year and a half of her
going through that.
And I just had to show up and be there,
but not really be there,
you know, like gray rocking.
Are you guys, do you
ever talk about gray rocking
on your show?
No, what's gray rocking?
So gray rocking is, I don't know,
it's one of the eight million trends
that you talk about online, they,
but it's, if you have
somebody like that in your life,
that you don't wanna
not be in their lives,
it's a way to show up and be there,
but not really be there, I
don't know, it's hard to--
So you kind of have a
protective boundary around you,
and you don't really emotionally and
mentally connect to,
like you don't empathize completely
and put yourself in
their shoes and connecting,
completely immerse
yourself in the experience,
but you're there physically?
Yeah, but you try and be there,
you're still pleasant to
be around, you don't engage,
you don't take the bait really is the--
Right, okay.
Llamins terms.
You could explain it better
than I'll just butcher it,
but we've talked about that,
where children who
have this relationship--
Yeah, we talked, well,
what we talked about was,
a lot of Gen Xers are having to care
for their elder parents, and
a lot of those elder parents
are the source of their childhood trauma.
And it can, if you
haven't had a chance yet
to totally resolve your childhood trauma,
or even if you have, it can re-trigger,
even if you've gone
through all the healing work,
you can still be re-triggered right back
into that space again.
Or if you haven't
dealt with it or impacted,
you're right back in that
space when you were 10 years old.
And so the struggle of
having to care for this person
that caused you pain.
Yes.
A lot of Gen Xers are
going through that right now.
So that's so interesting.
And also, I think that's how I found you.
I think I saw maybe a clip
of you talking about that.
Was that it?
Because you said that
and I just got chills.
I'm like, right.
That must've been the short.
Yes.
That during that, when
you reached out to us.
Yes.
That resonated for a lot of people.
Yeah.
A lot of people in their age.
Because you feel less alone.
You feel, you feel guilty.
You know, your parents
sick and you're angry at them.
Yeah, that's what it was.
I think a lot of guilt
and people were like,
oh my gosh, I'm not alone in this.
A lot of people said,
I thought I was the only
one that felt this way.
And then there's tens of thousands of
people that are like,
no, I feel this way too.
There's a lot of people too though,
where that were like, fuck them.
I don't care.
Yeah.
Cause me trauma.
Yeah.
I'm no contact for the last 10 years.
They can die alone.
At least half the people.
It's very interesting.
Extremely visceral.
Yeah.
I wonder how those people are doing
because I found,
I was in like a horribly toxic
relationship with this guy
who gave me tons of material.
He's in my first set.
So this is the other question.
So the other thing is I
was in a bad relationship
romantically, great sex of
course, great sex, bad people,
always a great combination.
Anyway, he was hot.
Okay.
So, and it's, I've come a long way
because I could see
those guitars I'm not having.
I'm not triggered.
He was a guitarist.
I'm fine.
I'm totally fine.
I'm totally fine. Yeah.
So.
Just don't rub too
much your patch on there.
Yeah, exactly.
And then rub.
Pretty good. Yeah, exactly.
Then she lost it.
And so with him, she's sick.
And he said to,
actually it says
before she even got sick,
because he knew about her.
He said, I'm really worried about you.
That you're going to lose your mom
and you're not going
to have forgiven her.
And you'll never be
able to forgive yourself.
And I want you to do this for you.
And if that was the reason
that fool came into my life,
great, you know, cause I
did start working on it.
And I did start, it was
maybe less spray rocking.
I was able to actually be there,
but I was still, you know,
the dangler fish, you know,
the light, I was not,
not going to, you know.
And then she got sick and I
remember calling him crying.
I'm like, oh my God, my mom has cancer.
And he's like, what?
And I said, but I'm so glad that you,
I'm just remembering this now.
I said, I'm so glad
you had me on this path
because when she told
me I was able to cry,
I was so sad about losing her.
So I actually was in a
really good emotional position
with my mom when it
started, but, you know,
the things would happen.
So I guess it's too late
to say long story short,
but we had, I had avoided
getting super engaged with her
and anything.
And then there was this, but
this fight was so important
because this is what led to comedy.
So I was with her and I
guess every Gen X parent
who talked about this
will love this story.
She's on her deathbed.
I mean, it took a while,
but she was still on the bed
that she would send
be, you know, whatever.
That doesn't sound right.
Okay. And she says to
me, I don't know where I,
I don't know what I, I
don't know what I did.
I was like, I'm so wrong
when you were a little child.
Like basically I thought, oh my God,
she's apologizing to me for
everything she ever did wrong.
It's happening.
Yeah. And then she
finished the thought and said,
for you to have such
horrible taste in men.
Oh my goodness.
And I had broken up with
guitar man who I knew was bad
and have so much shame around that.
I said, you know, well,
don't do this, don't do that.
And she just was, and I think, you know,
it's a familiar, she was excited probably
on some subconscious level, you know,
and then we're just
yelling at each other and like,
don't do this stuff.
But I go in the other room and I'm
sobbing uncontrollably.
And my stepdad comes in,
he's like, what happened?
Why are you crying?
And I had said it and she
said, you know, your mom,
she's always been
emotionally distant with you.
That is the first time
I'd ever heard that before.
My gosh.
Yeah.
Like, what?
Wow.
That before, anyway, I had it in my mind.
I'm like, well, I've been
with her for a long time
through this sickness and this is
probably the last time
I'm gonna see her.
Cause I can't, this is
this cut deep, you know,
and I have to protect myself.
And I had seen this comedy
teacher, shout out, right?
Leslie Wolf, amazing comedy teacher.
If you ever want to take
standup comedy, it's all on Zoom.
You can do it.
It's incredible.
It's therapy.
It's amazing.
Okay, there.
I had to say that.
Leslie Wolf, we can also probably--
Yeah, send the links.
Yeah, any links you want to anyone,
we'll put it in the description.
Yeah, I recommend everyone do this.
I don't care if you
don't want to be a comic.
It's an amazing experience.
So she, I'd been seeing
her workshops, her showcases
with friends of mine over the years.
I'm gonna do that all of
a sudden 10 years goes by
and I see that she's, one
is starting the next day
and I'm like, I'm doing
this, you know, my truth.
I'm gonna burn everything to the ground.
Everyone's gonna know, you know?
And then I got home and I calmed down
and I called her and I was like,
yeah, I'm not doing this.
I haven't worked in a while.
I don't have the money for this
and I'm really raw with my,
you know, I can't do this.
I don't even think I mentioned my mom.
And she said, I know this is
gonna sound suspicious, right?
Like she's looking to close the, it
wasn't, I swear to you.
She called me back.
She said, I will give you a deal on this.
I could tell you need this class.
And she was right.
And I started that
night and I did burn it down
on that first Zoom call with everyone
and they're all laughing and crying.
I'm like, this is gold.
This is incredible.
You're so lucky.
I'm like, I'm so lucky.
That's what a comic says.
And then my mom went to
hospice the following Monday
and I was like, oh shit, I
have to start a whole new set.
So I drove out there and I already,
it was like rebooted us, you know?
And I was like, okay, I'm here again.
And anyway, it was
just this weird blessing.
I mean, I don't like the word blessing,
but I started to
rewrite everything and realize
that I am more than the
stories of me and my mom.
And I started, and I, everything I wrote
had nothing to do with her.
In the beginning, we had
everything to do with her,
but nothing to do with her.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I was able to show up
and be like
emotionally vulnerable with her
and be with her and forgive her.
I'm gonna start crying,
thinking about like compassion
because I had this thing
and I was just talking
to friends about this.
They said, because you
finally felt heard and seen.
Yeah. Like I always had this fantasy
of a jury hearing me as a child,
like, can you believe what
I'm putting up with, you know?
And then I finally had it
on that Zoom call, you know?
And they were like-- They were validated.
They're just like, yes, you know?
And they were very
disappointed when I dropped that set.
I'm like-- But you were validated,
like you said. Yeah.
The child on you was
finally seen and acknowledged
and validated. And not by her.
That's where we all go wrong, right?
We can't wait for them.
We can only forgive them
once we stop, you know?
You went and found your own closure.
Yes, yes.
But did it come from your
stepfather, saying those words?
No, it came from the
Zoom call where she--
No, but I mean, it was the catalyst,
him kind of acknowledging
and validating it, right?
Yes.
Your mom's always
been emotionally distant.
Where the hell have you been, dude?
He put words to-- That's what I'm saying.
Like you were probably
always wondering, what is it?
What is it?
And then he put the words to what it was.
I didn't feel crazy in that moment.
I thought he was coming
in to shame me about tears,
which he was a little
bit, because that generation,
they're like, "We don't cry around here.
What are you doing?
Did you try it?
Shove that down."
Yeah, bury it.
Bury it.
So it was a shock that he said that.
I was like, "What?
You're right."
Yeah. It's almost like you were gaslit.
Like I think a lot of
Gen Xers were gaslit
through their childhood.
Totally.
You're not feeling that way.
Like what are your, or
made fun of for being dramatic
for all that stuff when we were gaslit
for all of our lives.
And then finally when
we're not and we're validated
and we don't feel
crazy, like we're not crazy,
it's like, "Wow, I'm not crazy."
And that's what that was for you.
Yeah, you're right.
That's what it was. You had that closure.
So then from there, did you just,
like how did you
decide, okay, I'm gonna--
Yeah, it was a four week class.
And my secret plan
was I'm not performing.
I'm just gonna do the classes.
This woman's crazy if she
thinks I'm getting on stage.
She doesn't, you know, I'm
just gonna do these classes
and be done with this.
And then as the, it's four weeks
and then you perform right away.
And that's one of the
things I love about her class.
You go on the main stage at Flappers,
a really good club here in Burbank.
So you don't have time to like,
it's, you know, you're
getting shoved out of the plane.
It's an incredible like
growth thing that happens.
And she really works with
you on your personal story.
It's not like set up punch, set up punch.
And so it's very therapeutic, her class.
But as the performance
time is getting closer,
I was like, I think I am doing this.
Oh shit, you know, and I was petrified,
but I didn't tell my parents.
I didn't tell them for months.
And it felt so empowering
that I had the secret
life out there, you know?
Yeah.
But anyway, I showed up
that night and Leslie was there
and she's like, this is crazy.
You should be working all the time.
You're natural.
And she's like, trust me,
you're gonna be addicted
the moment you do this.
And she was right.
Like my foot hit the stage.
It was like, just like
electricity and light.
It was amazing.
And I was completely hooked.
I, if they had a cane,
they probably would have had to pull me
off stage, you know,
because I totally ran the light.
I was like, get another thing.
And yeah, I was like, okay,
when do I go again?
And it just has been nonstop since.
And I think it is the
Gen X thing, you know?
It's like, all right,
we're gonna do this.
We're gonna crack this nut.
I don't even, it's
insane, but I'm gonna do it.
I'm gonna, you know?
Yeah, so when was that?
My two year comedy
anniversary will be this October.
So how old were you when
you went on that stage?
I was 53.
So I think that's a great example
of we're never done, Gen X especially.
We are always going to
live life and tackle it
no matter how old we are.
There is no, well, I'm in my 50s,
I'm in my 60s, I'm in my 70s.
I think Gen X is gonna go
down fighting and living
and taking on new experiences and
challenging ourselves.
I think a lot of it
does come from the grind
of our childhood.
And that's the pro of how we were raised
because I don't think any
other generation is aged
like we are.
And I think you're such a
beautiful example of that.
Oh my God, thank you.
Can you guys adopt me?
Is that weird?
No?
No, honestly though, because--
That's so beautiful.
When we were raised--
What you said, by the
way, I just wanna stop
and say that you guys
are amazing, thank you.
No, it's true.
I think when we were growing up,
we thought by the time
you hit 50, like it's done.
Like it's done, now you're
going to your older years.
And, but no, that's
where Gen X is actually
probably starting to
live their biggest dreams.
And I think we should be an inspiration
for the younger generations to say,
because some of these younger generations
think your 30s is old.
And I keep saying, you
guys don't even know.
You don't know anything yet,
but just wait till you hit.
I found 50 very liberating, but I think
you're just such a great
example of what Gen X is doing.
Thank you.
I mean, look what
you've done in two years.
I think it's remarkable.
You've reinvented your entire life again,
but this time it's 100% on your terms.
Yes.
And it's coming from such a place of,
you're really standing in a healthy place
on your two feet, a solid foundation.
And you probably are
your most authentic self,
I would say.
Yes.
Yeah.
All that.
It's so interesting.
You feel reinvigorated.
Oh my God.
In a sense.
When I hear, I am never bored.
I am never depressed anymore.
I might get anxious, but I know,
I do have a lot of friends
who have not found this thing,
whatever it is for them.
And I feel bad for them because I don't,
but I just, I could do this to the grave.
I'll be doing this in
"Sing Your Citizen's Home."
You know what I mean?
Like it is incredible.
And you can be broke and you can do it.
You can do this.
Nobody can stop you from doing comedy.
Amazing.
And I do want to say the
young thing is hilarious
because I'm friends
with so many young comics.
And it's so funny when
they get up there and like,
I just turned 30 and
I'm really feeling my age.
Or I'm, the ones I kind of
have to give a little slack to,
it's like I'm turning 40.
And I'm like, I know you
think it's old, it's not,
but it is, it's the beginning of old.
Like your body's changing for sure.
Your eggs are dead or whatever.
If you're a woman.
Yes. Yeah, if you're a
woman, the perimenopause
and the menopause and all that.
Yeah, for sure.
But the 30 year olds,
I'm like, you're a zygote.
Like you are not,
you're, they don't know.
They don't know.
And I don't know how to help them.
Like one of my closest friends is 30.
And I'm like, dude, you're so good.
Like you're fine.
Just, it's cool, man.
You've got this.
I think what's hard for
them with social media
is there's so much FOMO
and so much comparisons.
And comparisons, the thief of joy.
And I think that when they all think
they're supposed to be doing that,
and even when they accomplish something,
then in an hour they could see somebody
doing something better.
And they're like, oh, but my
thing isn't as good as that.
Now I gotta, they're
always having to chase
and probably never
feel satisfied or content
with their
accomplishments because social media
and most of that's fake.
Yeah.
Most of it's not real.
Perform.
And it's performative, but I don't think
they still understand that fully.
I'm sucked into it.
Yes, yeah, we can all, you know,
it's, we all have to take a moment,
remind ourselves that it's performative.
Yes.
But I think for the younger generations,
I really feel bad for them.
Oh, I do too.
Because I think it
takes a lot longer for them
to feel like proud of what they're doing.
Yeah, and is there any joy in anything
if it's not being recorded and posted?
Like that's so awful to me.
That's what I'm fun.
My son, actually, here's the good news.
My son, not on social media, thank God.
He's always complaining
that I'm filming too much.
But that's new, that's
when this comedy thing,
like it was not new before, you know?
But I do have to be careful,
because I'm like, oh,
can I, no, mom, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
He's like, great.
I have a clarifying question, I guess.
So that first night you went out,
you went out by
yourself and did stand up.
Yes.
In front of a crowd.
Sorry, yes, and before
you think I'm super bad ass,
it's a class, you're
friends with all your classmates,
it is the warmest
audience, but it was terrifying.
I was shitting myself, yes.
But I had friends there, I
have my friend Amy there.
Yeah.
I mean, in fact, if you had to--
No, but that's still
pretty, that's some pressure.
Oh, it was the scariest day of my life.
I just wanna be clear.
Yeah, that's awesome.
And I was evacuated
from the airport at 9-11.
So this was scarier than that.
This was like, oh, I'm gonna die.
Okay, cool, I'm dying
tonight, this is fun.
Because you're hoping for laughs, right?
That's the whole game.
You're hoping that people, it resonates
and people laugh and clap at the end.
Yes, I think that first
time though, you're just like--
Get through it.
Get through, you're like,
am I gonna remember ever anything?
Am I gonna be shaking so hard,
they'll see how nervous I am?
Am I gonna embarrass
myself in front of everyone?
And it was probably
the best set of my life
that will ever happen.
That first set, if you
have a great first set,
you'll never be that,
I didn't know other comics at that point.
You know what I mean?
I didn't have anything to compare it to.
And it is, they call it a
hot room, it's a warm room.
Like everybody's there
to support you and laugh.
So it was incredible.
But yeah, I was terrified.
I recommend that for everyone.
Say that again.
What about your first experience
when it wasn't the warm room?
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, the bombing.
Yeah, that was horrible.
That early on, you'd
think, oh, I'm delusional.
I should never do this
again, all or nothing thinking.
And then I've, well, I would say I've
been fortunate enough,
but again, the Gen X, I'm
very good at finding mentors
and finding people and researching it.
So I actually reached out to,
so I had some people that
I had kind of befriended
and they hooked me up with this comic
and it was this very established comic.
And it's funny, I had
just gone up the night before
and bombed and I was
doing so well before that.
And I was, I went in
with a whole new set.
I hadn't even tried out
in a mic, I didn't know.
And it doesn't work like that,
and I'd only been doing
it a couple of months.
And I completely was like, well,
I don't know, maybe
this is too in the weeds,
but I mentioned it to her.
She's like, what are you
doing doing in your set?
You just started.
No, you gotta just get used to the stage.
You gotta like, just do your set.
Maybe add a new little
nugget within your set,
but you need to know
where to get back on.
And if you bomb this
early on, you're gonna go,
you're gonna get in your
head, think I'm not funny,
and you're not gonna
know where to get back on.
I said, oh my God, that's what happened.
So you start to learn
like, oh, this is part of it.
And I met this, and
now it's not fun to bomb,
but I feel like it's
not even bombing now.
I look at it more as, okay,
I didn't communicate
correctly with the crowd,
what went wrong, how
much of that was them,
how much of that was me,
what jokes need to get better.
So the longer I do it, and my friends,
I'm very good friends,
we have a support system,
where we talk each
other off the, I suck ledge.
Also, it's a drug, so then
you go back and have an amazing
set the next night,
you're like, I am God!
So it's like, it's crazy.
What growth, I mean, I
always say as we get older,
we should try to
always be making ourselves
feel uncomfortable,
because I think through that
comes growth, and it keeps our brains,
it keeps our brains growing and strong,
and it keeps us on our toes.
And so what you're doing,
it's almost like every night,
you are experiencing some form of growth,
because you don't know
what your crowd is gonna be,
you don't know what's
gonna come your way.
So you're just having
such this beautifully fluid
growing experience,
every night you go out there,
it's awesome, it's so cool.
Truly magical thing, yeah.
I get so excited as I take the stage,
it's like, ah, this is
my happy place, you know?
That's amazing, so did you do--
That's awesome.
Stand up, so when did you
create the Big D dating show?
So how long did you just do stand up?
Real quick, tell us what
is the Big D dating show?
Oh yes, it is not what you think,
but I did name it
that to get men to laugh
when I gave them flyers on
the street, and it does work.
We're simple.
Yes, you are, it's
okay, I love that about you.
Everybody thinks we're
complex, we're real simple.
I don't think they think
that right, I'm gonna be honest.
No, I'm just kidding, totally joking.
So it's called the Big D,
and the D is for divorce,
and it is a comedy
matchmaking show for divorced singles.
And the way the show works
is I have a panel of comics,
and myself as the host,
and then for about a month,
I cast, and by cast I
mean find real people,
not actors or actresses, I
find three men, three women,
ideally they're all
divorced, got a stand brand.
But also, because I started this as a
single divorced mom,
I just felt like as I
was swiping on the apps,
I was always looking very
clearly for a divorced parent.
It was, what if I just created a place
where that was who showed up?
And also there are all
these, I don't know how much
you guys know, so if
I'm telling you something,
you know, whatever, but there are a lot
of dating comedy shows in
LA, but they're for the kids,
they're young, and it's very much like,
and I love talking to people my age,
it's like the Gong show.
That's such a good
analogy, and when that gets lost,
I'm my 30-year-old friend, Steven Cha,
I'm just gonna say this so
I can clip this out to him.
It bums me out, Steven, because it's a
really good reference.
Okay, anyway, he now
mentions the Gong show.
Deep cut, but you know,
it's like mean-spirited,
put freaks on stage, laugh at them.
I never liked that even as a kid,
I'm like, this is making me sad.
So there's a lot of that comedy out here,
and I actually got roped into doing one
for a friend of mine,
and it's a very successful comedy show,
it is no shade to his
show, but as soon as I watched
the video after I said
yes, I was like, oh no!
I'm like, blah, blah, blah, you know,
and I did it, and it was
fine, but I remember thinking,
there's gotta be a
version of this for us,
and that's actually really heartfelt,
and taps into my love
of interviewing people
from when I was a
reality producer, and comedy,
and I've always matched me.
I have always connected people,
Malcolm Gladwell talks about connectors,
I love connecting folks, and anyway,
I'd been doing comedy for a year,
and I'd already been
producing another show
with a friend of mine, and basically,
it's so crowded in LA as comics,
it's almost impossible
to get into the big three,
you know, you have to get past,
so you kind of have to
produce shows to ensure
that you get stage time once a month,
and then you ingratiate yourself,
or endear yourself with other comics,
and they put you on your, it's a
community building thing,
and you get your reps in,
like the only way you get better
is rep, rep, rep, and so,
so I'd already kind of
gotten my producing chops,
like I wasn't scared of that anymore,
but it was pretty crazy
a year into doing this,
West Side Comedy Theater,
great place, Santa Monica,
shout out, they put a
little ad up that said,
got a new show idea, and is this Gen X?
I love trying to sell things,
I just love being ballsy
and go, well, what about this?
Yeah, yeah.
You know, like, and then you don't even,
you can't even cash that check,
but you're just like, how about this?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Fake it till you make it.
Right, and so I was like,
well, how about a
divorce matchmaking show?
I literally just said what it is here,
and he wrote back, he's like, I love it,
can you have it ready in
a month up on its feet?
I was like, wow.
But I said sure,
because I'm not gonna fail.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I hyperventilated my way through up
until opening night,
and I got LA Times to
do an article on it,
and it was sold out,
and it was incredible,
and it was next level.
It really was all my
favorite things in one,
and I knew there was something,
like you could feel it
in the room, you know?
I'm sure a lot of what you
guys feel doing your podcast.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
It's just connection, it's incredible.
Yeah, it is, it's the best.
Yeah.
No, it's why we love doing this.
I can tell, yeah.
We love it, yeah.
Well, good, I'm glad, I'm
glad you are feeling that,
because we genuinely--
It's just an honor for us to sit here
and have this kind of
conversation with you,
and you share so much with us.
It's really fucking cool, actually.
I feel the same way about you guys.
I guess I have to start
listening to Grateful Dead now.
There you go.
So yeah, it was really--
The privacy of your home, you'll be fine.
I would, Tesh of Grey, I mean,
it's a good fucking song, I get it.
Okay.
(laughing) And if you listen to the studio version,
they don't jam, it's quick.
I think, you know
what, it might be my ADHD,
it might be the
problem with the jam band.
Honestly, it's like,
"Oh, when are they
gonna go to the next one?"
I'll give you some shows for start with.
Okay, yeah.
We'll send you some--
Some quick shows.
Yeah. Yes.
No, they won't be quick, they'll be good.
Yeah.
Yeah, so that's what happened,
and I was like, "I gotta do it again,"
and I've been doing it
for the last seven months,
and it's been amazing,
and I'm taking it on the road,
which I kinda knew I'd get
to see if it really had legs.
If I could really scale this thing up,
I knew I'd have to leave LA,
because also if you have it every month,
I'm noticing a lot of people are like,
"When's the next one?"
Like, "This is the one I
need you to buy tickets for,
"right now!"
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So how do you do that
on the road, though?
How do you vet people?
Are you advertising in Chicago?
Yes, I'm basically
figuring it out on the fly,
very Gen X, I guess.
No, I don't know about you guys,
but the whole social
media ad marketing thing,
I mean, I'm trying.
Nobody knows is what I'm learning,
but yeah, I'll put up,
I'll boost the ads, target people,
and then I'll try and
make clips go viral,
hasn't quite happened yet,
but I reached out to the clubs,
and again, just balls to the wall.
I'm like, "I can sell out your club."
I really thought I could in Chicago,
because I'm from Chicago.
I'm like, "I got this."
And now I'm like, "Oh no, this is harder.
"This is harder than I thought."
But anyway, so from Chicago,
so it was, I thought
maybe a little easier
to spread the word there,
and that I knew locking
in press would be huge,
so I got the Chicago
Tribune to do a story,
and that's coming out Sunday,
which I wish was coming out
before three days before the show,
but it's fine.
It's gonna be a nice splashy piece,
Sunday paper, online Monday,
so that'll hopefully get us over the
ticket hump a little bit,
and then I find the men on me.
Sorry, go on.
I was gonna say, do you
already have your contestants?
Yes, yes.
That's the very first thing I do.
Until I have them, I
can't sleep at night,
because those are the,
this for you guys is what I do with them.
Until I have this, I don't have a show.
I have to find the comics,
which is a little harder to do,
because that's not my community,
but I asked all my friends here,
I'm like, "All right, who
do you guys like in Chicago?"
So I was able to find
comics, locked them in.
Like, "Oh yeah, I don't
think about that now."
And then I find the men on Hinge,
which is a very complicated transaction,
as you can imagine.
But I have my poster up there,
and I always approach them first.
I worked on a non-offensive flattering
opening intro with chat GPT.
I'm like, "Help me
make these men feel okay."
Yeah.
I don't know if it did, but anyway,
most, half of them are like,
"This sounds like a
hoot I wanna talk to."
Some of them are like,
"What's the big idea?
This is catfishing."
I'm like, "It's not, look up the
definition of catfish.
This is not catfishing."
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's me.
I'm single, shoot your
shot, come to the show.
Like, you don't even live in Chicago.
I'm like, "You got me."
I mean, there's no, "Here's my Instagram.
Here's a website.
Are you just using this to find men?"
I'm like, "Yes, I'm
literally using this to find men."
Again, you figured it out.
It's not catfish.
Here's the absolute opposite of catfish.
Total transparency.
They don't know what to do with that.
I know, and they, I know.
But I do wanna say so many
of them are cool about it,
and I love when I meet those guys.
That's awesome, that's awesome.
Were you gonna say something, Brian?
Yeah, I felt like you had--
No, no, I just, I mean, I get it.
I'm from Gen X, I don't trust anything.
So maybe that's what's in play here.
But if, I mean, if you have a website,
Instagram page, it's good, ever.
She's legit.
Yeah.
She's very elaborate.
And I don't say, "I think
you're hot, I wanna do you."
I don't start, I'm literally like,
"Would you like to be a
bachelor on the dating show
I'm bringing to Chicago?"
I'm very clear about it.
And the funniest thing that
I'll see over and over again,
it's funny to me is
when the next comment is,
"So you don't wanna date me."
It's always the next line, I'm like--
Oh my God.
It's literally, that one is funny.
This is why we're still married.
This is easier.
Yes, yes, yes, definitely.
And then, yeah, so that's a funny one.
This is one guy was like,
"This is pathetic as
if I'd ever spend money
to come to some show to meet someone."
I'm like, "You're
literally on a show called Hinge.
What are you talking about?"
Yes, yes, yeah.
But honestly, then the men
that find it fun and funny,
it's so cool.
It just makes me feel
better about the human race.
And then I get on the Zoom with them.
I always gotta get them on
the Zoom, then they're fine.
And then they're like, "Oh, okay."
Every time they get on the
Zoom with me, they're like,
"Okay."
I'm like, "Yeah, it's
just, this is it, just me.
I'm not here to embarrass you.
If you are easy to embarrass,
I don't even want you on stage.
I don't want a roastable man.
Please tell me now.
Are you roastable?
Cause I don't want you up there."
So yeah, also the men in
Chicago are hot, by the way.
Wow.
Well, it's probably nice to
have a whole new demographic
over there and kind of fresh.
And Midwest is totally different than LA.
Yes.
So you're in Chicago on the second.
July 3rd. Oh, July 3rd, sorry, July 3rd.
Yep.
What's the venue?
It's Zany's, which I
don't know if it's one
of the big chains, so I
was happy to get that.
That's awesome.
I feel like I've heard of Zany's.
Yeah, they're all over.
So they, and there's one in Nashville.
So Zany's, Rosemont, I
was hoping for downtown.
It's fine.
Why am I saying that out loud?
And I'm shitting on my own show.
No, I just want to
make sure nobody's like,
I don't want to drive all
the way out to Rosemont.
So yeah, it's in Rosemont.
What was I saying?
Three women, three.
The women were harder to find
because I don't live in Chicago anymore.
So in LA, it's like,
hey, who do you, you know,
I don't know, I just
find them easier here.
And then the men are harder to find here
because I don't know why
something's in the water in LA.
But I find them, but it's a lot harder.
Oh my God, the men in
Chicago are fabulous.
I had to comment.
Are the women more suspicious of-
No, I just don't even
know how to get to them.
I think the problem really was I just
didn't have the press.
Like this was, I was
really hoping this article
would come out a week ago.
It's like a bat signal, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
So it's just grassroots.
Do you have the women?
I do. For Chicago?
I just locked the last one in yesterday.
That's how nerve-wracking this was.
And I was like, and I didn't even know
what she looked like
and what she would sound like.
I'm on the Zoom and she comes
on and I'm like, okay, okay.
And then she starts
talking like, yes, yes.
Because I need to connect with them.
We need to become friends.
And then it's really
nice on stage, you know?
Yeah, yeah. And she was lovely.
And I don't know, it's like,
you just know and you know,
but I'm also, sorry, I'm matching them up
as I'm talking to them.
And that's what some
people don't understand.
So I'm not like rejecting a person.
I'm trying to put three
and three people on stage
that a couple different
combinations could make sense,
age-wise, interest-wise.
You know, it's like a dinner
party I'm putting together.
I'm trying to create chemistry.
Have you had any love
connections that have lasted
more than say that night?
Yes, more than that night,
but nothing big, big time yet.
Yeah, that's my
preface, or included that.
Yes, no, but there definitely been,
there was one show where
there was a very popular.
As a cat. Okay, thank you.
He or she just dipped
down on the way to that.
Oh, did you just see her?
That's her here?
Yeah, I was like, is that a person?
Now she's a cat.
Okay, good.
So, oh yeah, so we do the show,
there's a single mingle at the beginning.
And when you walk in,
I say, are you single?
And they get all freaked out.
I'm like, I'm single too,
I just wanna put this lay on you.
And then they're like, oh, I'm laid.
So it's a funny joke,
but it was just the
cheapest thing at Party City.
That was it, now I'm stuck with this.
That loosens everybody
up, they have drinks.
So the whole audience
is supposed to be single.
That's the best show, right?
And then they sit down
and then there's a
single mingle afterwards.
And then the people
that come up on stage,
I just bring them up from the audience.
And it's very exciting for the audience.
Like, who's it gonna be?
And you just lean forward
and everyone loves
getting to know them on stage.
And so we interview
them for five minutes,
the comics hopefully don't get too,
and we say, these are normal people,
please be nice to them.
But they have to be funny too.
So it's like a weird balance.
Don't make them look
so bad that the other,
like the girl doesn't want the guy
because you roasted
the hell out of the guy.
Yes, and honestly, it's
usually not the comic's fault.
Like, I think the men get most nervous
and then I have to step in and say,
I think what he meant to
say about his ex-wife was,
but anyway, then we pair them together.
They have a five minute date on stage.
I have a stack of cards,
like a trivia game
night you'd have at home
and they get through as
many others as possible
and then you take them for a long five minutes,
bring them all up on stage,
and then the audience votes
for their favorite couple.
And it's not like gym
class when you weren't picked,
like everyone's applauding for everyone.
And then one couple tends to get, yeah.
It's almost like you took your background
in reality television
and put it into the show.
That's exactly what I did, yes.
There's a lot, you
combined your comedic talent
with your reality television experience
and created the show, it seems.
Yeah, because I can
picture everything you just said
and there's so many things I'm like,
I kept thinking this
could be a reality show.
I can picture people
laughing their asses off
the whole time.
It is like that, it's so cool
because they're
comedy sets throughout too.
So I'm like, worst case scenario,
because everyone, you want
to spend money on a night out,
I want to make sure
it's good for you too.
At least you've come
home and you've seen comedy,
but it's always more than that.
It is always more than that.
There's an
authenticity and a vulnerability
in that chair and the comics.
I get chills talking about it
because I didn't know
if it were, it's magic.
It's just, it's the special sauce
and everybody is laughing so hard.
It's really funny.
I mean--
How long is the set or
how long are people there?
It is a long show and
nobody has any sense of it.
I cannot make the show shorter.
It is quite frustrating
to me as I watch the clock,
but it's supposed to be
an hour and a half show
with a half hour pre and post mingle,
but the show always
ends up, well, you know,
you said people don't
realize the time though.
It's the same thing.
I don't know why, it's almost two hours.
It's going well though,
because people don't realize.
Nobody is restless.
They all get frustrated with the dates
and I'm like, nope, that's
it, your time's up, sorry.
And you know, like you
don't actually get to see them
have a real date, but
yeah, at the end of--
Where are you going after Chicago?
Oh, then I'm going to
Dallas to Mike Drop Comedy,
which is another comedy chain.
So I picked Chicago
because I'm from Chicago.
So that just seemed like a good,
like I'm pilot testing this.
I don't know if it's going to work.
I mean, I kind of think it is
because of the people
I'm talking to already.
They're like, I love
that you're doing it.
Like they love it.
So it's just about
getting the word out, you know?
But the people I talk to
are like, this is incredible.
Thank you for doing this.
Nothing like this exists out there.
Those are the things you
want to hear, you know?
Yes, yes.
So Dallas, I was a little
nervous going into Texas.
I'll just say that.
And I really need to
connect with these people
to be on stage.
So I'm like, what am I walking into?
And I have to tell you,
I have put no money into the Dallas show.
I was told by a comic,
this is why I picked Dallas,
that Dallas is known as
the big D for divorce.
I had no idea.
So I'm like, all right.
I didn't know that.
Neither.
Here I go.
Yeah, right.
So I posted the ad, I boosted it.
That's all I did.
And all these women
started applying on the website.
And I was like, what is happening?
And I have a question on there.
Like, what are your deal breakers?
What are your
political or religious leanings
that are important to you?
And they're all just
like, no MAGA, no MAGA.
Every woman was like--
The women are saying that?
Yes.
I was shocked.
Yeah.
And I got on the phone with all them.
I'm like, what?
So I'm confused.
When I think Texas, you know,
so they say they have
a hard time finding men
who aren't conservative and that's what
they're looking for.
And I'm like, all
right, well, I'm going in.
And so I've been going into hinge
and I've actually found
lots of wonderful men so far.
Apparently Dallas itself is pretty blue
and progressive or whatever.
I was just about to say that.
I was gonna say the city.
Yeah, I think Dallas is the city.
Transplants there to have
some diversity of thought.
That's what it is.
It's so interesting.
And there's so many Chicagoans there.
But they're all very anxious
about sharing their
political opinions with me,
which I was on the
phone with this one woman
and they're gorgeous.
These women, I mean, I don't
know what is happening there.
It's like just cheekbones.
And I don't, she said, yeah,
it's really challenging here.
It's a lot of competition.
If you're not beautiful, you can buy it.
I'm like, okay, well,
I guess that's Dallas.
Yeah.
Gorgeous women.
We're talking Southern Belle.
And I said, well, what
about your, you know,
is there anything you want to tell me?
Like political, whatever.
And I just kind of looked down.
I don't want anyone to feel the spot.
They don't have to answer me.
And she kind of looked down and was like,
why I don't want you to hate me.
Like, uh-oh, why would I, I really can't,
I can't be with those
people with red hats.
And I'm like, oh, okay.
I, but she was worried.
So I think for them
living there, at least,
I am getting the impression that they
don't feel comfortable
sharing that opinion.
Yeah.
It's probably the opposite of,
like if somebody was an LA conservative,
they're nervous to say that.
That's exactly what it is, yes.
Or if you're a Portland conservative,
you're nervous to say
you're conservative.
So now you're in Dallas
and they're nervous to say
that they're liberal.
So it just depends on where you are.
And I find it fascinating.
This is amazing to me, funny.
Yeah, yeah.
So I think it totally
depends on where you are on,
you know, the flip.
Then there's places it's all mixed up.
What's the setup of the theater?
It like, cause we have
a place here in Boca.
It's called the Boca Black Box.
I would check it out.
Oh, cool.
But I don't know if it's the right,
it's the right size I would think,
but I don't know if
it's the right layout.
They have seats and-
Well, how many people, how
big is your audience usually?
Well, that's the scary
part about Dallas and Chicago.
I'm deaf, I'm jumping
from a 79 seat theater
to a 250 seat theater.
Wow.
Well, yeah.
That is so cool.
Well, I mean, it's only cool
if we have more than 30 people show up,
but I'm going with it, man.
It's fine.
We're just, I am trying to be
cool with the fact that like,
of course, Julie, you're
going to take it to a new town.
This is about spreading the word.
Like this is why you're doing it,
but it's hard because
I'm such a perfectionist.
I mean, I'm not a perfectionist.
You know what I mean?
Is that like a thing too?
Yeah.
Yeah. I want to fail.
At least with Dallas, you have more time.
Yes.
For public, like, you
know, we're at Chicago.
Like how long have you had to,
you don't have as
much advertising, right?
Sunday's going to be the first time?
Yeah, it's brutal.
But it's already moving.
It's moving.
I, it'll be fine.
It'll be fine.
There's a lot of people there.
Yeah.
If you're going to want
to the Tribune, right?
And 250 seats for 270.
That does, that should do it
because that's what did
it for our first show here.
There's something about
somebody reading it in the,
I don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's such a new
concept that nobody's done.
That I think if you saw
that and read about it,
you'd be like, oh my, I'm
going to go check this out.
It's not, it's new.
It's different.
And people are always
open to something new
coming into their area.
Cause they're sick of all the same stuff.
So, you know, I wouldn't be
surprised if, if at least,
I think Chicago for, well,
definitely you'll be good.
I think Dallas, it's sounding
just from what you're saying.
You got all these women that were,
I think Dallas, the
word is going to spread.
That's what it sounds like.
Men and women are going to the playing.
And I'm surprised.
I thought the men were
really going to get aggressive
with me on the hinge, but they have not.
I've only gotten a couple.
Well, I didn't see, I'm
like, okay, I just, you know,
do you want to watch me or not?
Like I don't, it's cool, it's cool, man.
It's not for you.
Like let's move on, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just one night, right?
Just one night.
Yes.
And-
So then, are you going to continue on
in different cities in different towns?
I mean, yes, but not yet.
I was like, let me just try these two.
I foolishly decided to
have one tomorrow here in LA
because I got really
cocky off the last show
because Kathy Griffin was on it.
It was sold out.
Oh, wow.
I saw that, yeah.
That was cool.
That was crazy.
It was amazing.
A friend of mine, a comic was like,
hey, a girlfriend of mine
wants to be on your big day show.
I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever.
And she said, it's Kathy Griffin.
I'm like, what?
Yes, of course.
It was so crazy.
But she wanted to be a bachelorette.
I'm like, that's even cooler.
And so she was.
And to answer your question, Brian,
she really liked this guy.
He likes her.
They're going to go out.
I don't know what's going to happen, but-
Yeah, no, that's cool.
That is so awesome.
That is so awesome.
Amazing.
Was that the first time you'd met her?
Yeah.
And I met her in the
back, the green room.
And I was worried.
It was like, this isn't
like a celebrity thing.
What's it going to be like?
Is she going to be cool?
She's totally cool.
She hung out in the
green room and I went back.
I could tell she got there late.
So I went back there to say hi to her.
And my friend said, this is Julie.
She created the show and
Kathy put her arm around me.
We took a picture and
she's like, you did?
You are a badass.
No women ever produced
comedy back when I was coming up.
And I just thought if
my mom could hear that,
that would have been like-
Yeah.
That's amazing.
That's amazing.
That was about where
you were two years ago
when you first started this.
Kathy Griffin putting her arm around you,
telling your about, I mean-
That was, that was-
That was for real.
Yeah.
That was, there's so few
moments in life where you stop
and go, oh.
Yeah.
That's one of them.
I was in the moment.
I was like, oh my God.
And such a sign to keep going with this.
You know, that this is something,
and to keep going with it.
Yes. That's very cool.
Because she's been in the game forever.
Oh yeah.
No, she loved it.
She put nice things on
her website about it.
Like everyone that's done
the show, every comic is like,
oh, this is different.
Like the audience, why are they so happy?
And like, cause we're telling
them stuff they want to hear.
Like this, I know
exactly who this crowd is.
You know, usually you have to go in
and you have to do a
little sleuthing work.
You burn a lot of top
at the time at the top.
Like, do they want your sex jokes?
They want your mom jokes.
What kind of group is this group?
I know exactly.
I walk out and I'm like,
are there any divorced
people in the audience?
They're like, whoa.
They don't have to
feel bad about themselves.
Yeah, no, it's so true.
Gosh, do you think most of your
demographic is Gen X?
That's the target.
Cause I always say we're
not the golden bachelor.
We're not the bachelorette.
And I mean, as of now,
the show is
definitely an extension of me.
Like I can, who I connect with.
So yeah, like 50 to 55 is
kind of that sweet spot,
but I've also had, I say
the age range is 40 to 60.
I've had younger folks on there as well,
because if they've
been divorced, you know,
but I make sure if I
have somebody younger
than I have somebody
younger, like I don't,
I try not to have a phrase
in the ages all over the map.
Because actually people don't want that.
You will be happy to know
when I ask men who they're,
and I'm like, there's no judgment.
I swear you can be honest with me.
They don't want the young ones.
They want their age?
Their age or like around their age.
I don't know that whole, I mean,
I think there are like
some gross guys out there
that are like, I want to be with the-
It's our neighborhood.
What?
That's South Florida thing.
That's the age disparity is pretty,
I don't know if you
said it, I don't know.
We've definitely got a sugar daddy.
What do they call the girls?
Sugar daddy, sugar baby.
Yeah, in South
Florida you see that a lot.
That's huge, I'm not
saying it's not huge here.
But for this show, these
are people you would know.
You know what I mean?
Like you would do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I think much like
me, all these people,
if I think about it,
are looking for somebody
that could have been in college with.
They're looking for
something that feels like home,
that feels familiar.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah.
You know, it's just, you
really have created this space
for Gen Xers that have had a divorce
to come and really try to find somebody
or at least be around
people that can relate to them.
They don't have to
explain certain things probably.
And it resonates with them.
And I'm sure as funny as it is,
there's also that joy
that people are feeling
off your audience.
They can probably relax
and just be themselves.
It's an outlet, it's an outlet.
That's awesome. That's cool.
Yeah, nobody's walking out to them going,
how could you be single?
It's like, that is the
stupidest question on the planet.
Like, and I can't even,
everybody in that audience
is basically choosing to
be single at this point too.
There's a very
interesting shift happening,
dating with intention of what do I want?
Because I don't really need anything now.
Like these are very,
the people that are drawn
to the show are very
content, people who have typically
done the work, they feel kind of whole.
I don't know how many of them there be,
but there's a lot of them.
That's what I'm trying to figure out.
That's a goldmine.
Because there's so many people out there
that are not like that.
So that's a goldmine right there.
The question is, do I start
digging into the other groups
to keep the show going?
I don't know.
That's a first-seller, right?
So are mom jokes still being told?
They don't seem to be told.
I grew up on mom jokes.
Mom jokes. I just don't generate
mom jokes.
Oh no, there's a lot.
Yeah, we have a, in fact, great question
because it's Gen X mom jokes now.
So it's very edgy humor.
It's all about, I
mean, my set has changed
because I didn't like it.
It was very much like,
kids today, you know?
I'm like, I don't know.
You know, part of that, to me,
it's more interesting.
What have I done to contribute to this?
So I used to have this joke about like,
it wasn't a joke.
My son threatened to run away
when we were having a fight once.
And at first I was terrified.
And also I'm like, oh no, I'm my mother.
I moved 3,000 miles away.
Like, it's happening again.
He hates me.
I failed.
And then I realized
it's absolutely ludicrous.
He's not going anywhere
because he has no life skills.
And then I added, but
then I added this line later.
Now I like the joke.
I didn't like it before.
Now I added a line where it's like,
because we haven't given them any.
Like, this didn't happen
out of nowhere, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You added the self-deprecating humor.
Exactly, exactly.
And I noticed, you go, sorry.
So many Gen Xers can relate to that.
In fact, I would think most Gen X parents
can relate to that.
They all can.
I see a lot of this in
the audience when I do.
Yes.
Yeah.
Like we all know we did it.
Yes, exactly, exactly.
And this to me is the best,
if you could thread
this needle out there,
because I have definitely played to
conservative crowds.
And my very first time I bombed big time
and it was horrible.
It was in New Mexico at a casino.
Everybody was married.
It was total Trump country.
And I knew not to do my divorce material.
Like I have my like, I'm a
divorced mom having sex or not.
I mean, so like I have all those jokes.
And then I have the kids
today and me raising him.
And I was so, it was my
first 30 minute feature spot.
And I was so nervous.
I wouldn't have enough material
if I didn't do the divorce stuff.
And I knew not to do it.
I knew it, but I got up there.
I'm like, anybody divorced in here?
I was like, was there anyone?
No, it was just dead silence.
And I feel like all they
heard from that point forward
was just, "Hoor,
whore, whore, whore, whore."
Like they were not having it.
And as soon as I started
talking about mom stuff,
they warmed up and they were laughing.
So my point is, I do
find that the mom stuff,
I try not to like throw away my jokes.
I try and find a way
to tell them in a way
that can appeal to
anybody without sacrificing
my point of view or my belief system.
It's hard to do, but
it's really something we do.
Yeah, I'm sure.
And that's another moment of growth.
Huge. Uncomfortableness.
Oh my God, yes.
Yeah, and when you do it,
you're probably like, yes.
Oh, it's huge.
You know, you're gonna pull it off.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool.
Do you think you'll
come out to Florida ever?
I mean, yeah, sure.
Yeah.
If you think you have to let us know,
we'd love to come see it.
Oh my God.
The married couple in the South.
Anywhere in the South, because we go up,
we all over the South,
we love the road trip.
So we'll drive up to Georgia, the
Carolinas, Tennessee.
Like Texas is too big.
It's too big.
It takes us six hours to get out of
Florida heading to Texas.
And then you're like
another, so that one.
But we'll drive pretty far.
So obviously we're gonna keep an eye
on everything we're doing,
but he doesn't like to fly anywhere.
I don't think we can
stand flying anywhere.
Well now, we can blame you.
That's crazy.
It's crazy.
But so not even just Florida,
but if you come
anywhere else in the South,
other than Texas, we wanna come.
For real, the Voca
black box is a really cool--
No, I'm going to, because
also there is some place in,
there are a couple of clubs I was told,
well, you should
really check it out there.
I don't know if it was, I
can't remember the name.
They're all these names.
They're all the silliest names,
like McCab's corn on the
comedy, or I don't know.
But you know.
Voca black box is cool.
And if you ever are told
anything around in South Florida,
we can always, you can reach out to us
if you ever wanna know more about it
and we can look into it too for you.
We have divorced friends.
Yeah. Yeah.
So collaboration, as the kids say.
Oh, we do. Yeah, we have divorced friends.
Oh, we do have divorced friends.
That reaction is exactly
why I started the show.
I always say, you
marrieds never think about us.
So we have to think about ourselves.
You're like, oh, I do have
a bunch of divorced friends.
We're just, I know.
We do. We're so cute.
Yeah, they're so cute.
Yeah, they're crazy
independent lifestyle.
Those kids.
Yeah.
No, we do, we do.
We totally do.
So, okay.
They would be pretty good.
They would be great.
They have personalities.
Well, yes.
And they're very pretty.
This is how I'm picking
where I take the show.
I have to have a foothold in somewhere.
So to know you guys would be amazing.
Anything we can do to help.
And we know some men too.
You said all the magic words.
All right, yeah.
You know the worst people.
You know the worst people.
Yeah, we know the worst people.
But you doesn't want the husband
and the hideous wife.
Oh no, but we know some
that aren't connected.
So, yeah.
No, well, if you ever--
If you want to find your matchmaking
skills, you can help.
Yeah, no, I love it.
I love it.
I'm just gonna go for it as
soon as I get through July.
I'm just gonna go for it
with what you've created
in such a short amount of time.
Like tackling this new
adventure in your life with comedy
and where you are now with it,
creating something so
unique and different.
It's so impressive, so cool.
Thank you, I love it.
I think if you do
something, this sounds so cheesy,
burr, but I think you guys can relate.
If you love what you're doing,
it just kind of starts
growing like you guys.
People smell it.
Yeah, yes, because it's authentic.
Because it's authentic.
You're not pretending, it's not fake.
And you're coming from a good place.
That's also it too.
It's coming from a good place.
I just think it's really cool
how you just took kind of a leap of faith
and it worked and now it's resonating
and it's building a life of its own.
You don't have it figured out.
You don't have a master plan,
but it's coming together and it's
resonating with people.
I mean, it gives me kind of goosebumps
to think that you're in
the studio or the theater.
I can picture people
laughing their asses off,
having a good time.
And then you're almost like,
I can't believe this is happening.
That's really cool.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
That is exactly the feeling.
Like it is torture leading up to it.
And then as soon as they take the stage,
well, there's also
something when I take the stage,
like, well, it's gonna
be, but it's gonna be,
like at that point, you just, you know,
but once it starts, so.
So leap of faith.
Yes, yes.
See if it works.
I encourage.
And it's very Gen X of
you to just go for it.
Right? Yeah.
Absolutely. So listen, the last question
I always ask our guests is,
where do you see yourself in five years?
Well, first of all, I have to say,
I'm embarrassed to say,
I don't like that I'm
gonna be older in five years.
I don't know if you feel that way.
Like I like that I'm reinventing age,
but I'm like, slow down.
I like what I'm doing now.
Which you need to go and reverse.
Yeah. I know, I know.
It's going too fast.
But that being said, where I wanna be,
I want to just, I wanna
be a professional comic.
I want this to be my livelihood.
I want this show to be a success.
I want me performing to be a success.
I just wanna be able to do comedy.
It's, and I feel like I don't even,
if this thing grows and keeps growing,
I'm not even sure what it really will be.
I feel like it's got weird potential.
I know that sounds strange,
but I don't even know
what it's gonna look like.
I mean, it could be in other countries.
It could be a board
game that you play at home.
It could be a reality TV show.
I just, so many a
friend of mine was like,
can I, this should be a reality TV show.
I'm like, you go sell it.
I am tired of reality TV.
So sure, if somebody comes
and dumps the money truck,
I am all for it.
But yeah, I just
wanna see it keep growing
and the community and people and,
I think that's been the
coolest part about this,
is this developing community.
Like I lost a bachelorette
yesterday for the show tomorrow.
I could not sleep last night.
That was not the testosterone.
That was me going, what have I done?
Lay off the cream.
Yeah, and then I woke up in the morning
and I remembered all these different,
like the people I've gotten
to know through this show,
it's crazy.
I'm like, oh, I need to ask them.
Maybe they know somebody.
Maybe they don't know.
It was just like, it was like the
Avengers came together
because they all loved the show so much.
So they're telling people,
and then people trust me.
It's almost like you're creating
a Gen X cultural movement, honestly.
Again, by creating this space.
So it would be, and I think it will
tumbleweed or snowball
and because word of
mouth, everyone's talking
because it's unique, it's different.
No one's ever seen it before.
And I think our generation can use
something like that.
And we're always up for something new.
We're not scared of that.
So I wouldn't be
surprised if it does expand
and evolve and change.
Well, right back at you,
we'll be writing our dreams together.
But you guys have been hugely successful.
You've got incredible numbers.
How long have you had the podcast?
I think less than a year.
Oh, here you are
telling me, look at you guys.
That's incredible.
I think August, the
end of August is when we-
We set up the studio around, started
setting it up in March.
And then our-
And then we got our first
video out, I think, in August.
End of August.
That'll be our first, our one
year is at the end of August.
So it's been awesome.
We just, again, are so honored
that people will share
their life story with us.
We cherish that.
And what we've been able to experience
through learning about people and what
they've gone through.
But then also our goal was honestly,
if just one person
feels seen and less alone
by something they hear from another
person's life story,
then that's the whole point.
It's just, and especially, I mean, men
too, definitely men,
but especially women.
Because there's so
many women that go through
so many things,
especially around our age.
And it's not talked
about enough, but men too.
I know some of our shorts
sometimes get people maxed.
It sounds like I'm
always ragging on the men.
And I don't mean it that way,
but we just, it's a way we're trying
to help people feel
connected by sharing stories.
And then sometimes Brian
and I will talk about topics
that we feel people, not just our age,
but that people would like to hear
the male and female conversation about.
And neither one is bashing the other.
We're just truly having
a discussion about it.
Almost like if you were sitting here
just listening to us
talk about something.
So that was kind of the concept.
It's beautiful.
And it's why I responded to you.
It was like, "Strumming
the pain with your fingers."
It really was.
So I think we
actually have the same goal.
Agenda.
Hearing you talk about what you want.
I'm thinking that's
kind of what we want too.
And in some ways, I don't
think you're trying to steer it
in a specific direction.
You're seeing where it goes
with some semblance of a core value.
And I think we've got this core value
of just being authentic really, right?
And then we'll see where it goes.
Exactly.
And that's been the exciting part.
It kind of sounds like you're sort of
doing the same thing.
Same.
Because it's such a, I
think at our age two,
I don't know about you guys,
but there is like a
forced Buddhist detachment
that we all start to accept.
I'm not forcing anything into anything.
I'm not forcing a guy to
get on the phone with me.
I'm not forcing a
reluctant person to be in the show.
I'm not forcing a club.
Oh, it's happening.
Okay.
I like this thing and it's growing and
it's opening up to me.
And I try and just
stay in that mentality.
So, you know.
Yeah.
As much as I'm like,
"I wonder if I had
started comedy 20 years ago."
I wasn't even myself 20 years ago.
You know what I mean?
Like, I have-
Right.
Now you have to be where
you were for it to happen.
You had to get to that
place for it to happen
the way it's happening.
And the way I view it is,
if you're creating something
and it's coming from a good, positive,
genuine, authentic place,
and you create whatever it is,
the art that you're creating,
and then you put it out there,
it's no longer your
responsibility anymore
because it now belongs
to whoever receives it.
And however they receive it,
doesn't have anything
to do with you anymore.
Yeah.
Because you just, you know
where the source is positive
and good intention.
And so it takes off the pressure
because you're proud of
what you're putting out there.
It doesn't really matter.
It's great if people
receive it and it resonates,
but the process was the satisfaction.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Oh, totally.
I mean, the part nobody sees in the show
is when I have my
initial talk with people
and I always say,
it's usually worth the man.
I don't know why that is,
but I think cause I know that you guys
are not taught to emote as much, right?
You're shamed into
suppressing your feelings.
So I always take a moment and say,
by the way, I just,
let me begin by saying,
I'm so sorry for your loss
because it doesn't matter who left.
It's a death and I'm really sorry.
And they always stop and go, thank you.
Because nobody wants
to talk about divorce
except divorce people.
It's depressing.
I don't know.
It's like, and yeah, I
wish this had existed.
Something like this had
existed when I first got out.
It's a very lonely process.
So when I see somebody's
eyes light up a little bit
and I tell them it gets better,
they say, thank you.
It's like, it's a great feeling.
Yeah.
And I love that you do that with the men
because you're so right.
No, I mean, that's girls too,
but the boys really
did not get any attention
when it came to emotional development.
No.
None.
Yeah.
So, and then there are these men now
and they've gone through
a lot of pain themselves.
So it's awesome that you recognize that.
We were guided to push it all in.
Like who's talking about it?
Suppress it.
Yeah.
Like Homer Simpson, shove it down.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, listen, Julie, we
can't thank you enough
for coming on and sharing your story
and talking about the Big D dating show.
I'm so excited to
watch the progress of that.
I hope you come to Florida so we can,
even if you came to Tampa,
we would drive to see you.
We would drive in Florida to see you.
How about this?
I'm coming to Florida, it's happening.
There, that's the Gen X way.
We're not gonna, yeah.
We're making this happen.
We will help you find people.
Yes.
All right, that sounds good.
But if anyone, for our listeners,
if you're in Chicago, July 3rd,
the Big D dating show will be there.
We were gonna link Julie's socials
and the Big D dating show information
in the description of the podcast.
But if they wanna, like, let's say they,
as soon as they hear this, they wanna,
where do they go to get tickets?
They can either go to my website,
thebigd dating show.com,
but that will probably annoy them
because that just takes
you to Zany's Rosemont.
So if they just go to Zany's Rosemont
directly to the seller,
they're selling the tickets themselves.
So Zany's Rosemont is who's selling--
Zany's Rosemont in Chicago.
And then in Dallas.
Mike Drop, it's called Mike Drop Comedy.
And they have two clubs there.
This one's in Plano, Texas,
which I've been told
is part of the Dallas,
Fort Worth, Plano area.
It's all over one area.
It's urban sprawl.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah, it's crazy there.
So Mike Drop Comedy in Plano, Texas.
And go straight there or
go to your website for that.
Yeah, Mike Drop.
The website's good if they wanna know
more about the show,
see some videos on the show,
see how it works.
But if you just wanna go
straight to the tickets,
go right to the club.
And when is Dallas?
Yeah, when's Dallas?
That's July 17th.
And I do not have that cast yet,
although I do have lots of lovely women
and I do have two men.
God, it's almost cast.
But the casting goes
on up until the show.
Because if I suddenly
see an interesting match,
so hit me up, y'all.
Yeah, if anyone's interested.
Yeah, July 17th.
And if any of our listeners have any
comments, questions,
especially about the Big D Dating Show,
we will get the
answers from Julie for you.
Or Julie herself will
answer them for you.
But please don't
hesitate to leave any comments
or any questions or any
experiences you have yourself
if you wanna share
about, if you're divorced
and you're in the dating world
and you'd like to
share those experiences,
we would love to hear that too.
So, oh wait, we have a bonus.
(laughing) Okay, the bonus thing is, I
forgot I did this other thing.
If you're starting your own business
and I don't know where
you guys are with this,
you gotta get sponsors.
Anyway, I have this
incredible clothing rental company
that just came on board to sponsor me.
It's called Armwar Style.
It's a very hard word for me to say.
It's like Rent the Runway.
I don't know if you're
familiar with that company.
But these are these--
No, but I know what the concept--
They're rental clothing companies,
which is good for the
environment and on your packet books.
So, you pay a monthly subscription
or you can just do it be one and done
and you get like six
different looks sent to you.
So, they're gonna start sending me looks,
but more importantly at the shows,
I'm giving away a free
glow up unlimited membership
to Armwar.
If you use the big D, I
can't remember what it is.
Oh, I'm screwing this up.
We'll put it on the post somewhere.
But yeah, we're giving
away one month unlimited
memberships at the shows.
It's gonna be done through Raffle.
It's like a $250 value.
And then also if you
just wanna check out Armwar
and sign up for it, you can
get like up to a 50% discount
and some other bonus items
if you just put the big D dating show.
Okay.
I did my first, yes.
And we'll include that in the description.
All right.
Yeah, so it's, what's it called again?
Armwar?
Armwar style.
Armwar style.
Yeah, we have
something like that in Florida
and I can't remember the name of it,
but I know exactly
what you're talking about.
Armwar style and we
will attach the information
for Armwar, Arm, I
can't, I can never say that.
That's a very hard word to say.
Armwar, I don't know.
No, that's awesome
they're doing that though.
Yeah.
So, and we'll get the code.
We'll get the promo code.
Excellent.
Anything else?
No, that's it. We can edit.
No, that's it.
No, we got it all?
I think that's okay.
Okay, all right.
So again, any of our listeners.
So hang on one minute
once we're wrapped up here.
Wrap it up.
So thank you again,
Julie, for joining us.
And again, any of our listeners
want to leave any
comments or questions, please do.
We love to hear from you
and we will see you next time.
Bye.
(upbeat music)