Episode 45 - GenX Speaks Series: MJ Eldridge - MJ aka Mommie

[MUSIC] Welcome to GenX Adulting, and today we have MJ Eldridge with us, better known as MJ aka Mommy on TikTok. Welcome MJ. Hey, how's it going? We're so happy to have you here. I think it's good to be here. I've been waiting for this one. Ever since I saw you on TikTok, and then I knew you were coming on, I was like, I can't wait to get deep with her. So I'm excited about this one for sure. Yeah, me too. Our first question is always, what year were you born? 1974. Okay, so you're GenX? Yes, I am smack in the middle. I do think that there's versions of GenX. In my mind, there's the Fleetwood Mac GenX, and then my version of GenX is more Duran Duran GenX, I guess. I know it's everybody, but there's older GenX is more of the Fleetwood Mac time. I never thought about that, but you're so right. Totally. Makes sense. We're 1971. So Duran Duran, like all of that, Madonna, Culture Club, that is more that time for us, even though Fleetwood Mac was there, but that was more going on when we were like two, three, four, five, I guess, right? Right, right. So it was like more of my parents. It wasn't my parents' music, but it was my parents' radio. You know, it was their station. So in my mind now, it is funny just bringing up Fleetwood Mac, because just recently I started listening to it, because when I was a kid, I was like, that's like old people music. And it's just been very recent that I've even listened to it, which sounds crazy coming from a GenX person. For sure. It's awesome. Yeah, I love Fleetwood Mac. I know it's really good. And then I'm kind of embarrassed that I was just like, oh, that's disgusting. But yeah, when I was when I was young, I was one of those alternative kids. I listened to Debech Mode and

And then I'm kind of embarrassed that I was just like, oh, that's disgusting. But yeah, when I was when I was young, I was one of those alternative kids. I listened to Debech Mode and REM and, you know, the Smiths. And yeah, that's that's who I aligned with. And even now, even now I'll listen to like Deaf Leppard and Guns N' Roses and be like, oh, I never knew that song because I was too much of an alternative. Yeah, really, because I love Depeche Mode, but I was also into like, you know, like you said, Deaf Leppard, Guns N' Roses, Bon Jovi and then Madonna. So I was kind of like just the radio, whatever was on the radio was like all across the board. But you were like really into that new way. I call it New Wave. Right. Right. So I grew up in Rhode Island and in Rhode Island, Brown Brown University had their own radio station called WBRU. And that was all like the super alternative music. And if you were like a WBRU kid, that was it. OK, that's cool. You were a student. You're cool. Yeah, I was so cool with my with my Doc Martens. I like turtleneck. You know, yeah. Yeah. It's goth, I think. Right. Or as close as we would have because goth wasn't a thing. That was more like the millennial like millennials, I think was really right. We I was like proto goth, I guess. It was, you know, like I did try to I did try to dye my hair black. And I remember I went to the to the CBS and I got like a box of hair dye. But I have so much hair that only like all I could afford was one box. And I didn't know I would need more than one. And so I had like half dyed black hair. That's hilarious. That was the look, though. No, that was pretty cool. But so like other ones. OK, so where were you born? So I was born in a place called Windsocket,

That's hilarious. That was the look, though. No, that was pretty cool. But so like other ones. OK, so where were you born? So I was born in a place called Windsocket, Rhode Island, which is back then it was like, well, in 1974, when I was born, it was starting to really decline. But in like the 1940s, it was the biggest center of French Canadians in all of the United States. Like most everybody spoke French. My entire family is from Montreal. Like it was all the Canadian immigrants had come down from Montreal to work in the fabric mills. And yeah, so it was very, very French centric. And so, yeah, that's where I grew up. And but then, well, I didn't grow up in Windsocket. I was born there. And then I moved to a place called Barerville, Rhode Island, which is ironically where the Conjuring House is. Like I know way. Yeah. I like the actual Conjuring House. I grew up down the street from because that's where my my grandma lived. And so which is bizarre if you think about it, because like no man's land. So I grew up in a log cabin that my dad built like by himself, like the Unabomber, like just out in the woods. And I hated it. Like people always say, oh, wow, that's so cool. You know, to have grown up in a log cabin. I'm like, am I can I swear on here or? Oh, OK. Like I was always like in my fucking Abe Lincoln, like this. Yeah. Yeah. Like I would go to my friends' houses who had like drywall and I would be like, oh, like your your posters lay flat. Like all my posters were like, you know, like I did. Dark. I mean, it's dark. So dark. Yeah. And then it was also for years, it was actually cold because people don't realize like logs take a while to settle. So like you could see outside now. That's all the logs.

So dark. Yeah. And then it was also for years, it was actually cold because people don't realize like logs take a while to settle. So like you could see outside now. That's all the logs. Wait, don't they normally fill in between? Like when they do it now, right? Because they do it like because people want it because it looks cute or whatever. Don't they fill those logs? So they do like now with better materials. But back then, my dad had like the sticky tar paper type of tape. And like even the logs aren't perfect. Right. So even though that there's there's gaps. And so I was always freezing. And my house was like kind of half built for a long time. And so, yeah, it was. Were you off the grid? Well, I mean, weren't we all he had electricity and water, you had like running water. Yes. OK. OK. We did have running water, but we for a long time, we didn't have doors because my dad didn't build the doors on the inside of the house. So we just had like curtains for the bathroom door and our bedroom doors. And then for a long time, we had coal, heat like. And so my brother and I would have to shovel coal. And then we had this stack like it was. There was no reason for this. Like the world had advanced like there was absolutely no reason to live like this. So what do you. OK, so was this both your parents were there or was it just with your dad or your mom? Yeah, my mom and my dad. So my dad was a firefighter and my my my brother is a firefighter. My youngest daughter was a firefighter now for a while. Like we kind of have that in the family. And so in Rhode Island, the way the firefighters work is like they do two days, two nights and then four days off. So my dad had time to like build this house. And so that's that's why I

And so in Rhode Island, the way the firefighters work is like they do two days, two nights and then four days off. So my dad had time to like build this house. And so that's that's why I had to build a cabin. Yeah. I could get outdoors. A dream that he had always had from young. I wanted to live on. So prior to this, we actually lived in a very cute subdivision. I was really little like we moved there when I was four years old. And but we had lived in a very cute subdivision. My mom loved her house. And my dad was like, like he felt, I think, oppressed, you know, or whatever by the neighbors. And he's like, I. My mom denies this to this day, but I remember her telling me that he said that I'm going to take an axe to these walls if I can't go build us a log cabin. And so, yeah, it is true. So wait, how did they meet? My mom and dad met in high school in Windsocket. And my mom tells a story that she would look for my dad in the halls to just think about how much she hated him. She's like, I hated his face. He always looked so smug all the time, you know, because and he was tall and he was handsome like he he had dark hair and blue eyes and was tall and handsome and smart. And my mom just hated his guts. I love this. I love this. OK, so they didn't date in high school because they hated him, right? Right. And then it wasn't it was pretty scandalous, honestly, like they it was like a year or two after high school that he was dating one of her friends and they went to a party together and he pulled my mom aside and he's like, yeah, I really like you. I don't really like her. And so, oh, God. And then they they got married six months later. And yeah, in all reality, my parents just like to bone like. That is it. They just wanted to bang.

I don't really like her. And so, oh, God. And then they they got married six months later. And yeah, in all reality, my parents just like to bone like. That is it. They just wanted to bang. Like, I swear to God, that's the only thing they had in common because because they ended up getting divorced when I was like 14 years old. And like most of my life, they were always like at odds, you know, because my mom is very she's a sweetheart and she just wanted like a little family life and all this stuff. And then my dad is like, I'm going to chop this house down and build a log cabin. And then, you know, he was he was a partier also. So there was that. But yeah, I think at the beginning and if my mom, if you're if you do listen to this, I think you and dad just like to bang. That that drama, that tension, all of that. And then instead of kind of just like writing it out there, like, let's get married after six months, six months. Wow. And then do they get like an apartment together after they got married or a house or what do they do? They lived my so we're French, like I said, so I like my uncles are called Monanc. So like my man, Andy and his wife owned an apartment building and they live like in the upstairs. OK. And then they bought a house. And I want to say that their mortgage was like 96 dollars a month. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And this would have been what, like, well, how long were they married before you were born? I think three years, maybe. So like 1970, 1971. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Isn't that crazy for a cheap back. Oh, absolutely. So was your are you older or your brother? I'm older and then my brother is 48, 40. He's about to be 40. OK. So you're both ex. OK, so the spacing is like two and a half years, two and a half years.

So was your are you older or your brother? I'm older and then my brother is 48, 40. He's about to be 40. OK. So you're both ex. OK, so the spacing is like two and a half years, two and a half years. OK, so they get married. They have you they have you in the apartment or they have. OK, they have you in the apartment. And then they get do they have your brother there, too, or do they move into their home? Burbs the house in the suburbs. OK, where my brother was born. And they're having their nice little family in the suburbs. And your dad is feeling the walls close in and it's like, I got to get out of here. I got to go make us live in this piece of shit. Where's your mom? I'm trying to understand in the world. Your mom, like what's that? What? Oh, she was so upset. She was endlessly upset because like then she's living in this house that is like never finished, you know, because yeah, we had to move in. And in the meantime, we sold the house in the suburbs and we moved to in socket, which had already like kind of turned pretty ghetto. And where we were living was that's probably not OK to say, but like it was not nice anymore, you know. And and so we lived there for a year in this small apartment while my dad built the house. And then we had to move in. And it wasn't I don't know if it's still done, to be honest, like we sold the house when I was 17. It no, no, no, no, no. Like my my dad passed away in 2012, but we sold the house when I was 17. And so OK. OK. So you guys go live in this apartment. Were you in school during this time? I was still you guys didn't have to change schools or anything. So you go to your mom's leaving neighbors in this nice little life. Was she a stay at home mom? Yeah, she was. But OK.

I was still you guys didn't have to change schools or anything. So you go to your mom's leaving neighbors in this nice little life. Was she a stay at home mom? Yeah, she was. But OK. No, this is an argument I have with like these old school stay at home moms, you know, because every stay at home mom I knew back then had a job like they my mom always had a job like where she would she would pick up waitressing shifts, you know, here and there. Like just to get a little bit of extra money. She was always she's like, I can always go work breakfast, breakfast and, you know, make some money. And all the other stay at home moms I knew like they were selling Mary Kay. Like they had shit going on, you know, they were a side hustle. Always. Yeah. Something. And also back then, I think in general, I make sure and say that because we always get somebody it's like not my mom, but in general, a lot of moms were home. So there was also a village of support. So if you needed someone to help maybe with your kids for an hour or two or you needed there just was that more community feeling and women had more support, I think, from each other. Right now. And so I think sometimes for boomer parents, they don't totally understand the grind that Gen X moms, millennial moms are going through because that community isn't as available for us and for the millennial moms as it was for them, because we're having to do all the things without that support. So I just think parenting in general is was harder for us and for and is harder. But you can't afford anything now. So it's just like if you go to compare it, you just can't. But I don't think you that, you know, no, not at all. And then also like the rules have changed. Yeah. You know, like there it's not just

So it's just like if you go to compare it, you just can't. But I don't think you that, you know, no, not at all. And then also like the rules have changed. Yeah. You know, like there it's not just that there aren't other people around to watch your kids. It's that we decided, I think, and I wrote an article about this a few years ago about like how we invented helicopter parenting. That's on us. Absolutely. And we're the ones who did such a hard 180, you know. And so I when my kids were little, I stayed at home for three or four years and I would only let them watch a half hour of TV, you know, and then there was no like go play outside because all of a sudden we went mental and got scared of the entire world. Yeah. Right. And so I'm like, I'm just staring at these children like 24 seven. And it was so stressful. It was so stressful. It's a reaction. Right. Because I think there's so many of us who are like, well, we're going to create the childhood we always wanted or we're going to be the person we needed or we're going to, you know, be more attentive to what we experienced. But we did. We went the pendulum went completely the other way. So we did totally create that. You know, I there's I always say there is two types of genetics parents. There's the types that did that. And then there's the types that like it was good enough for me. It's good enough for my kids. And then you're starting to see the children of those two types of parenting and then observing the relationships those kids have with their parents. And it's very different. I will say even one positive of us attentive helicopter is that we tend to have a decent relationship with our kids overall. Maybe they can't make a doctor's appointment. I get that at twenty five.

I will say even one positive of us attentive helicopter is that we tend to have a decent relationship with our kids overall. Maybe they can't make a doctor's appointment. I get that at twenty five. But they talk to us and there's a lot of no contact going on on the other side. So it's a trade off, I guess. You know, I hadn't made the connection between the no contact people and that maybe they were like, what was good enough for me is good enough for you parents as well. I hadn't made that connection at all. That's a good point. Yeah. It's where. Well, and it's something that as we've had guests come on and share things we've learned and then have seen it from comments, from listeners, for followers. And we didn't either. It's something we've learned through this process, like, oh, we didn't even know there were two types going on. I kind of always assumed we're all helicopters because everyone that I was around the other moms and dads were all kind of like us. I didn't even know. Maybe there was that one random. We were like, they don't watch your kids. Yeah, you know, watch their kids. I mean, like, oh, my God, their five year old is on a canoe in the lake. You know, you know, but that was like that one random family. And they're like, oh, you know, but there's more. They do exist. There's a lot of them. And so now you're starting to see as the Gen Z's are in their 20s, the relationships that are going on, you know, and or even the younger, what are they pissed at their parents or something? Yeah, they have some of the same issues. We some of us have. But we all kind of helped our parents or whatever. We're in that sandwich generation where we still not everybody. We don't know. The Gen Xers that are no

We some of us have. But we all kind of helped our parents or whatever. We're in that sandwich generation where we still not everybody. We don't know. The Gen Xers that are no contact with their boomer parents. Yeah, that's a very common thing. But, you know, it's just weird to see younger millennials, young millennials and older Gen Z's also kind of following in some of that. And that tends to be that one parenting style. So I don't know. OK, so I didn't make the connection either. Yeah, it was something we learned. But OK, so you guys are in that apartment. I'm trying to picture your mom. Left this left is now in what. How do you say the name of the town again? What when when which? Yeah, I just looked it up. Is it up by Massachusetts, North of Providence? OK, yes. Yeah. How many people are in one time? Like how big is it? It looks kind of out there. Yeah, right. No, when Saki. So when Saki is just like the city where I was born and it's not rural at all. So I moved to Baroville and Baroville. That's the rural, very like deep in the woods area. And I graduated in 92 in Baroville with only 100 kids. Oh, wow. Yeah. But when Saki was more like the city for you guys, it was definitely the city. Yeah. OK. So she's there for a year kind of contemplating, OK, my life is about to change. I'm going to go live in a log cabin. I can't even imagine. And then you guys move into this town because you were there in the suburbs to same town. No, so this was we were in another place like it's also close together. It's Rhode Island. So our little suburb house was in this place called North Smithfield, which is like in between when Saki and Baroville. And is it larger than Baroville? Baroville? My point. Well, it's definitely like when growing up

place called North Smithfield, which is like in between when Saki and Baroville. And is it larger than Baroville? Baroville? My point. Well, it's definitely like when growing up after that, we were always like, oh, the rich people live in North Smithfield. Like, OK, it was for rich people. So another change for her. So she also was changed into a smaller town. Yeah. In a log cabin. Yeah. Has she ever talked to you about that transition she went through at that time? I know that she was just always mad. And she was this is going to sound really funny. But again, you know, being raised like French with like a French my mamae and all this stuff like they're so particular about cleaning. And like the woman is always like having to clean and make sure everything's perfect and presentable. And she was always trying to clean the logs like she was trying to wash the logs and they and they they were not like the pretty finished logs, you know, like in some Aspen Cedar Chalet, you know, they were like rough, hewn logs and it was just dark. So it's just trying to clean up. That's hilarious. It's like is it almost like if you went and you cut down a tree and then just built a house with those trees without doing anything to it? It's like taking out the branches. So there is. There's things I'm literally picturing a squirrel might have been mad. No, so it so they sell these houses and kits. OK. And you can get different versions of them. And this was like it must have been the cheapest version because the logs themselves were just like treated so they wouldn't rot. But they weren't like shellacked and shiny and pretty. So OK. So and that's really all you kind of knew, right? Because what were you you said for? Yeah, I was. Yeah, I was four years old

But they weren't like shellacked and shiny and pretty. So OK. So and that's really all you kind of knew, right? Because what were you you said for? Yeah, I was. Yeah, I was four years old when we moved in there. But I did remember my old neighborhood. I have a very weird, good memory from like two years old. Like I do remember being in that house when I was really little. And and also our summertime babysitter was in that neighborhood. So we would go back and like I could see I could see our old house and be like, this could have been my life. I could have had pavement like because we had we live on a dirt road. Right. And so like we couldn't even ride a big wheel. I'm telling you, you can't ride a big dirt road. You just peel out all the time. Like there's a part of me that's jealous. I know I would love all men. All men are jealous. Like you secretly you like George Washington it up. I know Brian would be happy living on a hill in a log cabin with me and dogs. And no one else. I still don't know anyone else ever. I know I know a lot of towns like where there's no one that I think we're going to get murdered any moment. He's like, oh, I could live here for the rest of my life. And like, you're insane. Anyways, OK, so you and your OK. So when you said summer babysitter, like would you guys go back to your old neighborhood and be with the summer babysitter for the day while you're? Yeah, well, that that was when my mom we got we were probably I was probably like eight or nine when my mom did go back to work. She didn't like stay at home forever. So it was when she worked and we had a summertime babysitter. And so you'd get to go revisit your old life. Oh, yeah, I'd be like, look at this. You can like write with chalk on this car.

So it was when she worked and we had a summertime babysitter. And so you'd get to go revisit your old life. Oh, yeah, I'd be like, look at this. You can like write with chalk on this car. Like I still remember the day that they repaved because it was in a cul-de-sac. Right. You could just ride your bikes in the middle. And then they came and repaved in that fresh tar smell. Yeah, this this is living. Nice and smooth. Oh, it's so good. I was like, wait, when you smell that in your adult life, does it? Oh, did you remember? And bring the right back, bring the right back. Good times. So your dad must have stayed. Did he remain a fireman there? Yeah, like meeting from the cabin back to the station type of thing. Yeah, so we actually lucked out because when Sockett was not a good place to grow up, right. And so and there I want to say it was like two years after we moved that they made the rule that you had to live in one socket to be on the fire department. And so we he got grandfathered in and then we got lucky. That's great. Yeah. I would. Right. My cousins, if they watch this, they're they're going to be like, wait, that's mean because I go to my cousin's house and I'd be like, I am glad I don't. So when your mom went back to work, what did she do? She worked in a bank. Oh, OK, cool. Yeah, she did mortgages. All right. Yeah. So when you started going to elementary school and through middle school, were you an athlete or were you an art or theater or music? Was there anything that interested you? Because it's a small town, it's a small school. Did they have any resources to offer you guys like that? I actually really lucked out, I think. So I was not an athlete. I was a chubby kid who was like failing the presidential fitness test

Did they have any resources to offer you guys like that? I actually really lucked out, I think. So I was not an athlete. I was a chubby kid who was like failing the presidential fitness test like type of kid like I I remember, you know, the whole the whole whatever you call it, trauma from the presidential fitness. Yeah. Yeah. I remember the gym teacher, Mr. Grello, like screaming at me like, you can walk a mile in 15 minutes. Oh, my God. I definitely do you remember all of these things? I remember the little skinny girls could really do that flexed arm hang. You know, forget about it. Like, yeah, weird thing I was good at. And I only realized now it's because I have very long arms. I could do the sit and reach. And yes, I like everybody. Yeah. I have really short legs. So I killed everyone. I went over like by eight inches or something. And I can look. This is the thing I can do. Yeah. Remember that. What do you think? Don't do it. I can't even know he's so he can't pass his knees. Forget it. Yeah. I remember. I don't even know. I know. I don't know if they still do. I think they're bringing it back in the back. Yeah. Trump just said he wants to bring it back. OK, you know, gone for a while because I don't remember my kid. I think our older son did it. But they don't. There's no recess at schools anymore, either. There was at their school at Nathan Kyes, but no, at Dylan's. There wasn't. You're right. I think for middle school, for middle school, they took recess. But I think we did. We do that in middle school. Was that elementary school, the presidential thing? We did it all all through high school. Yeah. From our entire lives. Gosh, I guess we did do it in high school. Any those got about the reference to the asshole gym teacher?

We did it all all through high school. Yeah. From our entire lives. Gosh, I guess we did do it in high school. Any those got about the reference to the asshole gym teacher? Because we all had one back then. And these kids today, they don't have the asshole gym teacher. No, you're not allowed. You're allowed to yell those things on the kids like these to pick on us. Oh, my God. They were so me. Oh, yeah. And you can't have mean coaches or any. You know, everyone gets very upset now. So OK, so did you have was your elementary school divided up? Like we were K through six and then seven through nine. I was junior high. You were middle school. Were you junior high or middle school? Junior high. They my brother is when they opened the middle school in the town. So did you have seven? Did you go K through six, seven through nine? What we had, because the town was so small, was that we went I actually went to kindergarten in a tiny little red schoolhouse. Like that was like it's only like a one room little red schoolhouse that was old. And then we had multiple different schools because as much as Burrillville is a rural place, it's made out of like seven different villages, which is like a very or maybe nine. I don't remember. It's a very New England thing to have things split up this way. So I actually went to multiple different schools. Like there was I went to first and second grade in one school, third grade in another school, fourth, fifth, sixth in another school. And then the high school was actually a junior, senior high school. So we were in seventh grade with all the way to seniors. Like they everybody was in the same building, which was terrifying because they're like, you know, full blown adults. And I'm like, you know, yeah.

with all the way to seniors. Like they everybody was in the same building, which was terrifying because they're like, you know, full blown adults. And I'm like, you know, yeah. Hard enough for like a ninth grader to assimilate and get along with 12th graders. Right. Right. Well, I feel like back then high school boys look like young men. They look like men compared to how the high school boys look now. So if you're in seventh grade back then, you're looking at seniors and they look like how someone at twenty five or twenty six looks now. Yes. You know what I mean? Like, yes. I don't know if it's like the hormone. I don't know if it's the food. There's a whole bunch of theories on why the Gen X men in high school looks so different than even the millennial men and the Gen Z men in high school. If you look at our imaginations, because I was thinking that it was like, oh, I was young. So I thought that they looked old. Right. But now with my job, I work with colleges and I was just at the University of North Carolina, North Carolina, Greensboro yesterday. And I was looking around at these kids and I'm like, every single one of these boys has like patchy facial hair. Like none of them can grow facial hair. And I was talking to my friend about it. She's like, I think it's the hormones, you know, and the food and stuff like that. It's disrupting. And I'm like, OK. There is a whole thing that people. Yeah, there's something because I will say Gen X men in high school, they did look like men. They totally look like mustaches, beards. They were bigger. I don't know how to explain it. They just looked more burly. We were a grocer. Probably. You're just dirtier. Yes. Big. You weren't bigger. It was just layers of dirt. This tower.

don't know how to explain it. They just looked more burly. We were a grocer. Probably. You're just dirtier. Yes. Big. You weren't bigger. It was just layers of dirt. This tower. You have a lot of teen shorts and a T-shirt. Well, true. It's very stylish today. Yeah, depending on where you live. OK, so you're you're 12 or 12. Yes, seventh grade and with 18 year old men. Uh huh. Uh huh. OK, so during that time, did you have any interest in any extracurricular activities or were you super academic? Oh, my God, I was such a nerd. But I also I the stories when I think back, how I actually was, it seems crazy because like I would do crazy things like, do you remember that song? The In the Morning Angel song, like like just call me Angel in the morning. Yes. Yes. So when I was in first grade, I took spelling slips and wrote the lyrics of that song, then copied them all for my entire class and passed them out so we could surprise our teacher and sing that song because it was her favorite song. No, every everyone hated me. Like I was such a nerd. And so so then horrible, though. Yeah, as an adult, at the time, they're like, who is this? Because I went by Missy back then I was Missy Eldridge and Missy Eldridge had like short hair and we need to talk about hair like well, we could talk about that. But I had short hair. I was fat. I was tall because I was also very big for my age, like taller than everybody. And I was a huge nerd and I had a big mouth. And I like it's the recipe for like just endless bullying. But I was relentless. Like I was relentless. Like I. OK. In fourth grade, in fourth grade, I wrote a play and. Made a deal with the principal that I so I I directed the play, I started in the play. I cast my friends in the play.

Like I. OK. In fourth grade, in fourth grade, I wrote a play and. Made a deal with the principal that I so I I directed the play, I started in the play. I cast my friends in the play. It was a Christmas play. And I made a deal with the principal to cancel recess one day and have all the kids watch my play instead of going to recess. That is amazing. This is insane. I'm sure there were kids that were pissed that they had to watch the play, right? Instead of going to recess, skip. That's a big deal. You know, I love this. This is amazing. Did your parents know this about you, that you were going to school and just sassing it up and arranging? Because I drove them nuts. Like I was always like when I was so this all kicked off from Romper Room. So remember, you're three years old and you would sit there and watch Romper Room and wait to see if she said your name. Right. And then I was like, though, those are kids on that show, mom, like they're they're kids like me. I'm a kid. They're a kid. How can I be on the TV? And so I could read when I was very little. And so I would find the newspaper. I would get the newspaper and I would look for auditions and I would like circle them and beg my my parents to take me to auditions. So I didn't like they didn't do anything because they're like they're boomer parents and they're like, fuck you. And I'm not dreaming you anywhere. Such a dream. Such a dream. Nothing wrong with you. And this may be amazing talent. Yeah. They're like, absolutely not like I'll drive you there, but I'm not picking you up. And then I'd be like, oh, OK, but I can't hitchhike, you know. And so so anyway, I did end up doing a lot of like local theater. But again, again, I was tall for my age, goofy looking.

And then I'd be like, oh, OK, but I can't hitchhike, you know. And so so anyway, I did end up doing a lot of like local theater. But again, again, I was tall for my age, goofy looking. I didn't even mention this. I couldn't breathe through my nose until I had surgery when I was like 30 something years old. And so here I am auditioning for these plays like singing and all this stuff. I can't sing. I can't hear. I'm like, my nose is also. Wait, did you did it affect like your station tubes, like you had fluid in your ears and affect your hearing? And would you have earaches and stuff? I had to get this is a very genic story. I had to get tubes in my ears when I was in kindergarten because my ears actually grew shut on the inside. And so my mom was always just screaming at me to turn down the music or turn down the TV until like they did the hearing test in school. And they're like, yeah, she's deaf. Your daughter is deaf at a handicap level, lady. She's like, oh, no. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's just there wouldn't have been major shame. It was like if it happened to one of us, we would have been like, you know, that's my job. Or hey, they do. Yeah. It's like, it's fine. You're fine. She's fine. She's fine. Yep. And so I had to get the tubes in and then I would get ear infections all the time because like I love to swim. But I had to have a very special set up like I had to have Vaseline and a cotton ball and then like these specially made earplugs like on top. And then I had to have a bathing cap when you are like a tall fat kid with like Esther Williams freaking bathing cap on your head like at the pool. So anyway, I would end up with ear infections all the time. And my grandma was like, I know how to fix this. And so she would blow smoke in my ear.

on your head like at the pool. So anyway, I would end up with ear infections all the time. And my grandma was like, I know how to fix this. And so she would blow smoke in my ear. Cigarette smoke. Oh, I was thinking the Yeti thing or whatever those. No, you're legit. Marvel like Chesterfield Kings. Yeah. And blowing smoke in my ear. Did it work? And then she would seal it up. She would reseal it up with like another Vaseline cotton ball. So you had nicotine in there. She's blow smoke trying to capture real quickly. That's awesome. Oh, my God. You're like, I'm dizzy. Yeah. I probably have 16 brain term words right now. It doesn't know. Do I smoke? Yeah, I don't get it. Yeah. Oh, no. They only got you got to do it through her ears. Right. How long did you have? Were you dealing with these ear issues and infection issues and all that? I think for three or four years, I had the tubes for a while. So I got I got them out in like fourth grade. So that's a long time to have tubes. Yeah. Yeah. Her older son had to have tubes because he had you station tube issues and they would get clogged and all that. And he had tubes. I want to say at five and then he was done with them by six or seven. Yeah. My youngest had tubes, too. So yeah. But that's a long time going into fourth grade. Yeah. And then do they know why you couldn't breathe through your nose until you were 30? Yeah. So I found out because my stories don't sound real. Like now that I'm saying them all out, like none of it sounds real. But so it was after I had my kids, my my daughter, I have two daughters, Aspen and Vivian. I was at home at night and my ex-husband, he was he played pickup hockey. So he was like gone. And this was in 2005. We had cell phones, but also like not really.

daughters, Aspen and Vivian. I was at home at night and my ex-husband, he was he played pickup hockey. So he was like gone. And this was in 2005. We had cell phones, but also like not really. Yeah. Yeah. And I was sick because I was always, always sick. Like my whole life, I would have some kind of stuffed up nose. And I'm sitting there on the couch just like they're in bed and I'm blowing my nose. And all of a sudden I feel something like skin out of my nose. And I look in the bathroom, I have a whole bubble of skin coming out of my nose, like part of my body. And I freak out. I call my mom and she's like, well, you've got to call the hospital because I'm home alone with the kids. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can't like push it back. Oh, my goodness. Call the hospital. And they're like, you blew out your membrane. I'm like, what membrane? Like what are you even talking about? Oh, my gosh. I had to have my neighbor come over, watch the kids because I couldn't get a hold of my husband. He was at hockey and I drove myself to the hospital and it turned out all this time I had been growing like the biggest nasal polyp anyone had ever seen. Like the doctors all brought the other doctor friends in to like look at my scans and all of this stuff. And so then I had like the rotor rooter surgery or whatever that they give you. And I've been amazing ever since. I was like, this is what breathing is like because when I was a kid and you would see like movies where people get kidnapped and stuff like that and they would put like duct tape over their mouth. I was like, how did they not die? I was like, movies are lies. Right. Because you probably felt like how when we would if we would get a really stuffed up nose, you felt like that all the time.

I was like, how did they not die? I was like, movies are lies. Right. Because you probably felt like how when we would if we would get a really stuffed up nose, you felt like that all the time. All the time. Wait, and no pediatrician. I mean, I shouldn't be surprised, but no pediatrician caught this through your whole childhood. No. What did they just keep saying? You just have a sinus infection? They thought I had allergies, you know, and I and I did have allergies and I but I lived inside a tree. Like yeah. Yeah, I was allergic to my entire house. Like so you had this problem before you moved into the house. You know, I don't remember a time where I could like breathe. So I think I just I did have allergies and all the resulting like endless nose blowing my entire life made the polyps like bigger. I think I think that's wild. So how incredibly life changing after that surgery. Oh, it was amazing. I still I am still so happy every day because of it because I can I can breathe. You can go to yoga and then they're like, you know, you've been through your mouth and out through your nose. I'm like, I know how to do this. Yeah, I can do it. I can do it. I don't know. The rest of it take that for granted. Yeah. Breathing. You know, now that you're doing it, you're. Yeah. I know. Breathing. Breathing. Breathing is flex. Yeah. This. This motivation to come to school with your own creations or your own ideas or direct people to do things or create things that continue through high school or was that more just when you were young, young? Oh, no. All through high school. I ended up I was in everything like I was in all the plays at school. I was in the community theater. I was in band. I played the French horn for eight years,

Oh, no. All through high school. I ended up I was in everything like I was in all the plays at school. I was in the community theater. I was in band. I played the French horn for eight years, you know, just being super nerdy. And then I graduated top of my class. Like I was just very, very nerdy. Really involved. Yeah. And then I went to Hofstra. I had a free ride for theater. But I only lasted a year. Like I had that was like a crazy situation. Wow. Wait. So you graduated in a class of 100. And back then, I don't know about for you, but for me, like no one talked about going to college. It was just like I think we had a college counselor and I think I met with her once. It wasn't like how it was for our kids graduating and how it is now. Right. Didn't anyone guide you through the application process and to get that scholarship and everything? So I was thinking about this the other day. I don't I honestly don't know. Right. I was in I don't know if you guys had this at your school. I was in that gifted and talented program. So we had a very active one at my school. And so all of my friends who were equally as nerdy, it was just like a given that they would go to college. And I do think that on the East Coast, there's just more of a college attitude. Right. Yeah. This is this is where Brown and Harvard and MIT. You're up there. Yeah. Yeah. And so but my parents, this is where the little bit of drama comes in. They they just want like they were the first in their family to graduate high school. Like when I say I'm from like immigrants who, you know, didn't speak English and whatever graduating high school was a big deal. And then I was the first in my family to go to college. And so there was there was a bit of a dust up.

who, you know, didn't speak English and whatever graduating high school was a big deal. And then I was the first in my family to go to college. And so there was there was a bit of a dust up. So even though I so my mom took me, you know, I found I don't know how I did it, though, like to be honest, like looking at it, right? If we didn't have a big deal, a free ride. Yeah. So like Hofstra Hofstra. We've been to Hofstra. We've been to Hofstra. So that's that's so cool. So what but this is the part I don't remember how I did. Like I I think I broke to the schools somehow found out what I was interested in. Like without the computer, I don't know how this happens. Right. And so I auditioned at Boston University at Ithaca in upstate New York at Hofstra and at Emerson. And I did go by myself to the Boston and and Emerson auditions. I took the train and did that. But my mom drove me to Hofstra and Ithaca to do those auditions. But then this is where it all falls apart. So I had gotten that free ride to Hofstra. But when it came time and I'm very curious to know if other Gen X people went through this or if it was just my parents, my parents refused to sign any student loan paperwork. They're like, we're not giving the government our money because I got a free academic ride, but I still needed money for room and board. Right. Right. Like even though they were divorced, they came together to tell me we're not because if you don't pay back the loans and it's on us and all this stuff because they were that was the one thing like I had a job since I was 12 and I paid for I paid for my French horn lessons. Like I paid for everything, as I'm sure a lot of Gen X kids. What did you do? Well, did you was a babysitting or I

was 12 and I paid for I paid for my French horn lessons. Like I paid for everything, as I'm sure a lot of Gen X kids. What did you do? Well, did you was a babysitting or I watched I washed dishes in a diner. OK, so that's that's back when. They can wash their age later. Yeah. Yeah. You worked from 12 and what kind of other than like your French horn lessons, what other things were you responsible for paying for three years? My mom would give me money for school clothes, but I would buy like anything else. Like if I wanted, you know, makeup or hairspray or anything record. Yeah, it's definitely that. So you would have to cover all that through. And then like oftentimes school stuff, too, like whether it was field trips or like, you know, band stuff for band, like uniforms or like any of the clubs that I joined because I was a varsity tennis for a while. So I paid for like all of that. You know, for you were not like when I when I got to high school, I did I did play tennis and volleyball. So, OK, OK. So you that's, you know, that's so foreign, though, to kids that we raised, right? Because we pay for everything. Like never would I ever think to make my son cover any of that. Like, you know, we just write it's a different experience. I did make my kids pay for makeup, you know, to girls. And so I'm like, I'm not buying your makeup, although I will treat like I still to this day, they're 22 and 21 and I'm just and they live on their own and all this. And I'm just always like, here's 50. I just owe them money. I know that would have like made me shit myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And for like extra like with my daughter, when she was working, she started working, I think at 15 or 16. Then, yeah, she if she went to Sephora, I would buy her own.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And for like extra like with my daughter, when she was working, she started working, I think at 15 or 16. Then, yeah, she if she went to Sephora, I would buy her own. But I mean, the brain six, I she we covered. Yeah. I got her hair spray. That's you know, I mean, that type of stuff. Right. Like that. There's very few kids in any Gen X or the Gen Z generation or younger millennial, I think that would have had to take care of all that. I think that's such a foreign concept. I'm sure there are some, but, you know, I think a lot of us did. I didn't work like that, but I was expected. I think I started babysitting at 11 or something. And that was my spending money for like candy or any mall, the mall. But I don't know if you worked because you were always in sports. I always worked. I worked from a ridiculously young age. What are your cousins? My cousins. Yeah. I also work for this insurance guy when I was like nine or ten should never have been doing it. Digging holes. Yeah. Like that. And filing. I don't know, you know, totally inappropriate today's standards. But no, I worked. I also had I had my dad's. What was it? A shell card so we could go to the shell station. Yeah. And, you know, buy soda or whatever. Oh, that's like rich. Yeah. That was like a 98 cents in Jersey. In Jersey. Yeah. So it wasn't the worst thing. And that's where they pump it for you even. Yeah. Yeah. I'm from Oregon. So gas has been expensive my whole life. Oh, it was like 98 cents here too. And it was funny because it was like 98 cents. And then we had like the self serve or the full serve. Right. And I remember when I was 16 years old, having the distinct thought like, this is the one

because it was like 98 cents. And then we had like the self serve or the full serve. Right. And I remember when I was 16 years old, having the distinct thought like, this is the one luxury you'll always be able to afford. And you will get somebody to pump your own gas. And then they took it away. Yeah. Yeah. It's not even an option. In Jersey, they still pump gas for you. I know. I've heard about that mythical place. And Oregon is the only two states. Oregon and Jersey. Yeah. We have a couple here, but like, I don't really know. Like I know that there's one out by my mom's house. And you're not allowed to get out in touch in New Jersey and Oregon. You're allowed to get out and touch the gas pumps. You just have to sit there like a princess and wait. That's the way it should be. Yeah. But then I feel like I have to tip them whenever they tip the guy and we're like, do we tip? We're not sure. And I grew up there. We didn't tip those, you know, so for it. So to go back to your parents divorce. So you were at that awesome age of 14 when that happened. Well, that's eighth grade, right? Eighth, ninth grade, something like that. So were you shocked? Was this, did this make sense to you at the time? Or were you and your brother completely shocked? No, we wanted him to out like we, it wasn't because he was abusive or anything. It just like my mom and dad were like, my mom was so upset at him all the time, like our entire lives. And he was never around because he was either, you know, working overnights at the, at the fire station or so after the house was built and stuff. And this is common for all firefighters around here, work that schedule. You have another gig. And so we owned an oil company for a while, like one of those home

the house was built and stuff. And this is common for all firefighters around here, work that schedule. You have another gig. And so we owned an oil company for a while, like one of those home heating oil companies. And so he was always doing that. And when he wasn't doing those things, he was out at the bar. Like I think, I think my dad never drank water. I think he just drank, he was 90% Budweiser and 10% coffee. There's water in Budweiser. Yeah, right. He had to get some hydration. Yeah. By that point, we're like, thank God, you know, like, yeah, I can't say that it was bad. Like it wasn't abusive. It wasn't screaming and all of that stuff. It was just stop. Stop bitching. You guys hate each other. Yeah, it wasn't more just tension, just constantly tense and not like, were you, were you, were you actually kind of hypervigilant and kind of walking on eggshells because of the tension, would you say? When my dad was around, it was weird because he was always like, when I was little, we had a very good relationship. My dad and I, like, he would always talk to me about books and, you know, whatever. And I would help him like down in his workshop and stuff like that. And then as, as, you know, we got older, he just had less of an interest. I just think my dad was never meant for family life. And it was just like, I do, I do feel for, you know, boomers and silent gen people sometimes, you know, that so many of them were just like, you have a family, get married, have kids. And like, so many of them wanted nothing to do with us or anything to do with family life. But they couldn't, they couldn't just be, you know? And so I always felt sad for my dad about that because my mom conversely, all she wanted

do with us or anything to do with family life. But they couldn't, they couldn't just be, you know? And so I always felt sad for my dad about that because my mom conversely, all she wanted was, you know, she would have had 900 kids or, you know, and so it was just a bad match. Well, and back then, and even for, I don't know, we kind of changed before we got married, we had this conversation, but I don't know if it's normal for Gen Xers, but definitely boomers. There was no conversation about how do you see raising kids? How do you see our roles in our marriage? How do you be sharing the domestic load at home? Are we both working? Is one of us saying? And they also came from a culture of you get married and you have children, it's what you do, but they also were that hippie free love culture too that was very about themselves. And then, and we just talked about this with another guest and then they went through, a lot of them went through that and then they were get married and have kids and become domestic. So like you're saying, I think so many of them wouldn't have had children or gotten married, but it really is only in the last, I think 10 years, 10 years of that where that conversation is narratives even starting to be discussed where it's okay to not have children. It's okay to not get married. It's okay to stay single. I mean, that's really new where it's to talk about that in a normal way because even Gen X women, we kind of all thought that's what we're supposed to do too. Yeah. And I think that oftentimes people don't really realize that about us, about Gen X. Like they look at us like, oh, you guys were the different generation. Whereas in reality, we're really not. Like I, my, when I was young, I never

really realize that about us, about Gen X. Like they look at us like, oh, you guys were the different generation. Whereas in reality, we're really not. Like I, my, when I was young, I never fantasized about having kids. I didn't play with baby dolls. You know, that wasn't like my thing, but I also knew it was just going to happen. You know, there wasn't like, like I was always going to get married. I was always going to have kids and I didn't ever think I wouldn't want that. Because nothing else was discussed really of other options. It was just kind of how life goes. Right. And then, and I think now, especially with younger millennials and Gen Z, they really are changing that whole narrative. And, and also I think if they do choose to get married, they're going to have such better communication before they even get married, especially the women. And this is what I expect. Like, you know, and we had that, but I drove that because I came from such a dysfunctional, crazy childhood. I didn't want to repeat it. I was determined to break the cycle. We got married at 23. And even then I was like, I'm not going to, I need to change something here because I came from such chaos. And so that's what drove that conversation. But if I had come from a more normal background, I never would have said, let's talk about how our roles and stuff. So I don't know if that was normal, even for our age to have before getting married. It wasn't for me. I'm really bad at as a whole at knowing how I'm going to feel about something until I do it. You know, like I'm bad at just like trying on hats. I call it like, like, and it wasn't until I, you know, met my, my ex-husband and like got married. And, you know, I was like, of course, like,

You know, like I'm bad at just like trying on hats. I call it like, like, and it wasn't until I, you know, met my, my ex-husband and like got married. And, you know, I was like, of course, like, I'll stay home when the kids are little. That's the right thing to do. You know, and I was actually, I was very conservative back then, you know, like I was a, I was a completely different human being. And because I was like, this is the right way, you know, I'm just so type A and I had no idea that I would want to die. Like I tell my kids all the time and they get mad, you know, when I tell them, but I'm like, when I, because they were only 16 months apart and I stayed at home. I had moved to this a whole other part of the story, but like I had lived all over when I was young, um, after I graduated high school and then I moved to Michigan because my ex-husband was from Michigan. And so I knew nobody had no like family system and I have these two babies, you know, back to back and I, I wanted to die. Like I never slept. I was just like, well, yeah, and none of that had was discussed before we got married and had kids for us women. Like I think we as Gen X women are talking about all that now, hoping that the younger women will know this look, it's okay to talk about this. It's okay to feel like this, get help or, you know, but that was very taboo to even talk about like postpartum depression or you were not just absolutely enjoy after having a baby. Something was wrong with you. My mom, my mom would tell me her line was like, Oh, I was in my glory, you know? And then my ex-husband would say, you don't know how good you have it. And I'm literally Aspen's first memory of me is when she was two years old and she,

like, Oh, I was in my glory, you know? And then my ex-husband would say, you don't know how good you have it. And I'm literally Aspen's first memory of me is when she was two years old and she, and she wouldn't take a nap. And I was just on the floor of her room crying face down on the floor. And that's so relatable though. You know, I think every mother has gone through that, but we weren't, we weren't supposed to talk to each other about that at all. Right. So thankfully I think that's changing. So when your parents got divorced, did you see a change in your mom? Oh, all the, all we, the house could breathe. Like everybody just could take a breath. But in all honesty, I, I hardly saw my mom after that because she worked two and three jobs. Like she was really trying hard to keep us in the log house. Like she got the log house in the divorce. She didn't get any child support or anything like that. But so she was still paying the mortgage and all of that stuff until, um, until my senior year of high school and she just couldn't do it anymore. But I was, I was so busy with all of my extracurriculars and all of that stuff and working all the time. Um, because by the time I was in high school, I worked at this pizza place and correct me if I'm wrong, but like, cause I did all these things. Like I was, you know, student council and I did tennis and all this stuff. But like, were our practices maybe like an hour or 45 minutes when it came to sports? Like I feel like my kids, they're all of their sports was like, there's no way that they could have a job. You know that because it was like endless practices that went on for hours and hours and hours. But I was, I was going to school and then I would go to tennis practice, but tennis

You know that because it was like endless practices that went on for hours and hours and hours. But I was, I was going to school and then I would go to tennis practice, but tennis practice would be over at like three 15 or something like that, like in high school. And then I would go home, take a quick shower and go to my job for four o'clock. Yeah, no, that doesn't exist because I know for our kids, they have all been in sports and that would happen after school. And I think they would be home by six or something. There, there was like, I'm after, it was like three hours or whatever from the time school and until they got home. No, I mean, cause they didn't have academic, they have to do homework and stuff too. I mean, cause it's different now. There's actually, I don't remember as much homework, but now they have so much of that. I know like when I was in high school, we would go right after school, go to like football practice, but be done to make the bus at like four 30. It was like the after school bus would take everybody home. So it was boxed in, but our youngest now plays lacrosse and field space is such an issue that he comes home. He's home for a few hours. Then we're driving them somewhere for practice or practice. Yeah. So now it isn't as easy. I don't think. But I do know he's had teammates, older teammates that a game would end or a practice would end and they'd be driving to their job and then they'd be working to like 10, 10 30. And I'm thinking, when are these kids getting their homework done, studying sleep? So I think they're burning the candle at both ends. If they're an athlete and trying to work. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of them have to work, you know, because everybody, everybody's broke.

So I think they're burning the candle at both ends. If they're an athlete and trying to work. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of them have to work, you know, because everybody, everybody's broke. Yeah. Parents are broke. You know, like everybody's broke pretty much what you're describing though, is you grew up fast. You are that Gen X or who grew up fast and were, you know, you see the memes. I was 30 when I was 10 or, you know, kind of thing. Yeah. You actually had a heavy responsibility load. Really? We definitely were typical latch key, you know, we came home and this is funny too. My mom will get mad at me for saying this, but I'm still going to say it because we argue about it. We love you, mom. We would come home from school and we would hide the key in one of the slots. You know how the logs have slots. Yeah. I'm the key in the slot and we would be home after school and my mom insists that it was fine because our neighbor who we called onto you event was like watching us. I was like, I never freaking saw that lady mom anywhere near us. And I think it's in her mind, she's just like, because she lived in the house, like, yeah, yeah. We lived on property. So it wasn't like next door was like two feet away where she was like looking in our window or something like that. But can we talk about like the struggle meals we would make after school because I did. So on top of, you know how the kids call it an ingredient house now, like you live in an ingredient house versus, you know, snack house. We were definitely an ingredient house. Like we, I was constantly like looking in cookbooks, like trying to put something together. And I did set my kitchen on fire by making donuts after school. Donuts like here I am with the grease. Yeah.

cookbooks, like trying to put something together. And I did set my kitchen on fire by making donuts after school. Donuts like here I am with the grease. Yeah. Here I am. The firefighters kid. I have this big grease fire going right. And I completely forgot everything. Yeah. Yeah. Everything your dad's taught you. What you're supposed to do, put a lid on it, you know, do whatever. So I threw, I was like baking soda puts out fire. So I threw baking soda at it and just made it bigger. And then I took the whole flaming pan and I put it in the sink. And you know how back then we would have those mats and the bottom of the sink melted that set the curtains on fire. I was hosing the curtains and then like, you know, with the sink hose. And then I just went outside and cried until my parents came home. But it sat on the porch and cried. Yeah. And it's a cabin. Did some of the logs also catch on fire? Were you able to go? Yeah. That's crazy. That is crazy. No, but that's definitely a good Gen X like trying to handle things. You survive as boomers would say, but did you die? You're fine. Yeah. I live to tell the story. But my other my other favorite like struggle snack that I would make and I would eat this today. I would take Ritz crackers and I would I would put a little dollop of ketchup, a little dollop of mustard in a slice of pickle and a little square of cheese. And I would bake them in the oven. I would make like sounds good, like little little fake burgers like with no with no burger on it. That actually sounds good in a weird way. It sounds really good. I'm drunk. Yeah. I'm drunk. I don't drink a lot anymore. But next time I'm drunk. Pickle is what I said, I think. I sent you a picture. I'm going to send you a picture.

It sounds really good. I'm drunk. Yeah. I'm drunk. I don't drink a lot anymore. But next time I'm drunk. Pickle is what I said, I think. I sent you a picture. I'm going to send you a picture. I said that actually is you know, it'd be good if you actually did make a little like meat patties like maybe I could make them for like a party party appetizers. It sounds more like a stoner meal than a drunk. You need to make a TikTok on that. Yeah. What I eat in a day. Yeah. As a latchkey kid like that. That actually would be really fun. I would be firing the background for a choice. All of us Gen Xers, we should start putting what we ate in a day as latch cures and put our weird things and I think that's something I think that's something. I think that's a really good idea because I would in high school I would get a dollar like to bring the school for lunch. And it was in my school. We had a soda machine, but we weren't allowed caffeine. So all that was in it was like Minute Maid orange soda. I don't know if you guys remember Minute Maid orange soda. And so I would get for 50 cents a Minute Maid orange soda and then I would get a Susie Q. Do you guys know what Susie Q's are? Yeah, with the frosting inside. Yes. Yeah. That's what I would eat. That's what I would have for lunch. And then I would go home from school and if I wasn't you know making some concoction, I would eat like I could eat like an entire box of honey bunches of oats. Oh yeah. That was I would eat it till my jaw locked. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh for sure. Oh the cereal. Oh. So much cereal. Even though the sugar cereals back then were like really bad or you'd put more sugar on top. Yeah. Would you do for walking charms and separate the marshmallows out? Do you ever do that?

Even though the sugar cereals back then were like really bad or you'd put more sugar on top. Yeah. Would you do for walking charms and separate the marshmallows out? Do you ever do that? That was for rich people. Like looking at charms and that was that was like for special treats for sleepovers. Like we would get life cereal or honey bunches of oats. Yeah. Or or grape nuts. I loved grape nuts. Yeah. And then hot heated in the microwave. Oh I never did that. Oh my god it was a recipe on the back of the box. Remember? Because we would just sit there. We had nothing to do but we ate the back of the box. And so on the back of the grape nuts box it was this you would heat them with milk and butter and and brown sugar. Oh my gosh that sounds amazing. It's almost like cream of wheat vibe but with grape nuts kind of. I love cream of wheat. Oh I love cream of wheat. It was so and there's another thing too. Almost almost like a grits kind of concept. Yeah. Your parents are divorced but they decide to unite to say we're not going to help you with college basically. Yeah that's right. We're back here. And so and so what happened in a because this was this was like three weeks before I was due to leave to move into college and like when all or maybe like a month. And so I had a boyfriend at the time. So in a fit of rage I moved all my stuff out of my mom's house and moved into my boyfriend. His parents let me stay with them and they signed my student loan paperwork. Yeah. And so but I only like I said I only lasted at Hofstra for a year because I first of all it was a mind fuck for me to have the the free ride for theater. They gave it to one boy and one girl. And here I was just like this kid from Barerville Rhode Island

because I first of all it was a mind fuck for me to have the the free ride for theater. They gave it to one boy and one girl. And here I was just like this kid from Barerville Rhode Island and then I show up at Hofstra which you know in New Jersey like these kids had been on Broadway like other kids in my class like they had like headshots and they had been in commercials and all this stuff. And I was like what is this why I do not belong here. Like you know I made your imposter syndrome so bad. And then also I was so stressed out about money like there is and I do think that is a very Gen X thing. You know you know that one song it's been making the rounds again that one it's like she calls her mom and she's like I'm hungry I'm dirty you know but everything's fine. I don't it's like an old like like kind of punk song from the from the 90s I guess. No but now that you said it I'm going to start seeing it on TikTok I bet. Yeah but I don't know I know it's not coming to me yet. So I think I think for me and I don't know about you guys you're still together which is good. But I think I was so scared all the time like because I was out of the house I had no fallback family like money you know like and I think that our kids and maybe millennials too just cannot understand like the sheer terror that we were always living in like where it was like I couldn't call my parents for money you know like there that wasn't happening and I always wonder if it was like my family that was like that you know or if it's kind of like a universal experience but it was definitely like once you're out you're out you know like there was like my mom was always like I don't have a revolving door so bye and that really I'm a very literal person

definitely like once you're out you're out you know like there was like my mom was always like I don't have a revolving door so bye and that really I'm a very literal person so that like sunk in with me so once I was out before I went to college I was not coming back and then I was just like raw dog in life you know like I could have put together like money to you know and and thankfully when I left Hofstra I did move back with my boyfriend's family for like another six or seven months before I I I was working I dropped out of college so I was working and I and then I was working as a waitress and got an apartment I had a roommate you know so before you went to Hofstra did you um have like did you live in the dorms did you have a roommate um so at Hofstra I they um they had dorms but they were suites so um I I the other weird thing and I think that I don't know that it was just not meant to be my roommate didn't show up like whoever was scheduled to be my roommate so I had the room to myself and then I had uh suite mates who shared a room and then another a senior was in there and then so we had these little suites and we all shared a bathroom it was actually like a super nice setup yeah that's nice like Nathan's place at FSU so there's two roommates two roommates and you had a common like bathroom area yeah okay did you become friends with them um I I did uh a little bit but I would it was I always was sad that I didn't because college is so scary you know like you're just like here I am from a tiny town you know and whatever and then all of a sudden not only am I at college but I'm in the city you know because where Hofstra is and um I was just terrified I was terrified all the time I mean it had to have been such a culture shock

all of a sudden not only am I at college but I'm in the city you know because where Hofstra is and um I was just terrified I was terrified all the time I mean it had to have been such a culture shock oh it was so bad it's like almost like going to another country and I'm way just totally different culture going on because not only are you leaving and going to college for the first time like as you said is scary for just any normal kid from where you're coming from and you weren't just from a small town you're from a small town and you live in the woods in a log cabin you know what I mean it's just it there's levels to it that you take that young woman and then you stick her in Hofstra and you're so great you get a scholarship and you know and everything's wonderful go enjoy your beautiful college life and you're kind of like I have no skills on how to do this no and like I hadn't even met a Jewish person before I show up at Hofstra and Hofstra is like half Jewish people right so like they have all these holidays and all this stuff I'm like what's even happening no idea yeah I grew up like extremely Catholic too so there there was that and I oh my god I was just scared yeah you were you were just treading water it sounds like and I mean were you able to at least was it a positive outlet for your passion for theater did you have positive experiences when it came to your major um no I think because it was always just like my imagination you know like it was just my imagination of what I thought being on a stage is like being you know in um in a movie or whatever like I just lived in my mind you know out in the woods and um and I didn't um I didn't like a lot of the classes in the end you know where it was all these like things that I

a movie or whatever like I just lived in my mind you know out in the woods and um and I didn't um I didn't like a lot of the classes in the end you know where it was all these like things that I thought were very dorky like these dorky like you do a lot of dorky things when it comes to acting classes and I was just like uncomfortable all the time I'm all like I'm like why are we like groaning you know and crawling around on the floor and marrying people like I I literally I was like this is embarrassing whatever we're doing is embarrassing was there a lot of like improv and stuff like that so no I I have done improv now though so after I got divorced in my 30s I joined an improv troop and I loved loved that that that was probably my favorite thing I've ever done ever um and they didn't have that at all your freshman it was later for a year or so maybe yeah yeah yeah probably not of intro classes yeah yeah stuff yeah real real dorky how did your parents react when you said I'm not going to continue on for another year were they okay with it we weren't really talking because oh so you kind of went no contact after that for a little a little bit like so I I did go no contact my mom did end up being the one to drop me off at school but our relationship was extremely strained and I I hardly had talked to my dad anyway you know so um it wasn't like any kind of purposeful no contact it was just you know yeah not talking yeah and and then it did end up though um again this kind of goes back to us not knowing stuff like I was screwed for a very long time I did not graduate college until I was 28 years old because you you can't you can't get student loans without your parents like even until you're like I think even now until you're like 26 years old

graduate college until I was 28 years old because you you can't you can't get student loans without your parents like even until you're like I think even now until you're like 26 years old yeah so I would have had to become like legally emancipated like all this stuff so I had to like pay as I went until I could you know get my own loans at 26 so you leave Hofstra you move back in with your boyfriend's parents you get a job waitressing and um and then how long until you started um taking classes again over that time um I went to Rhode Island College um for a couple of semesters and then by then I had broken up with that boyfriend and I had a new boyfriend and um he had a master's and he wanted to move out west he had friends who lived in New Mexico so we left Rhode Island and moved to New Mexico when I was over you then uh 20 okay so that's an adventure yeah so we we I did not last in New Mexico so we uh on our way there because we drove cross-country and so that's cool we stopped in Denver he had a friend in Denver and we stayed with him for a while and then we went down to New Mexico and we were only there for like two or three months because I was like I we're in Santa Fe New Mexico which is very beautiful but extremely expensive like even back in the 90s um they don't have apartment buildings there because it's all about the aesthetic and so you had to rent like a little adobe house and um renting a house but it was like fifteen hundred dollars it was something crazy wow so um and it was just a little to again fish out of water type of situation so I was like let's go back up to Denver and we we moved to Denver and I was there for five years oh with your boyfriend no so I I broke up with him because I uh I worked with my

of situation so I was like let's go back up to Denver and we we moved to Denver and I was there for five years oh with your boyfriend no so I I broke up with him because I uh I worked with my ex-husband and I I developed a massive crush on him like an undeniable crush and I was like I've I've got a breakup with this boyfriend so what were you doing in Denver where were you working I was selling furniture so I was and this is even crazier um I was 20 years old selling furniture I was the top salesperson often at the at the furniture store and I was in 1994 I was making like 45 thousand dollars a year because and which was I I was like I am rich yeah you're you're like 20 21 20s that's good money yeah except it was also very stressful um because it was straight commission so if you didn't sell anything you didn't make any money and so um prior to getting on the podcast with you guys I was just thinking about like being Gen X in general and like I don't think I've ever just breathed my entire life you know even now at 51 I still feel like especially with the what's going on in the economy and all this stuff I'm like I will breathe when I'm dead like there hasn't been a second where I'm like okay looks like we're doing okay folks you know like yeah no Gen X Gen Xers have been grinding their entire childhood yeah teenage years 20s 30s 40s especially Gen X women women have grinded through perimenopause in their 40s and didn't even know they were in perimenopause so they were having all these symptoms and being treated for all these symptoms that really rooted to perimenopause if somebody would have figured that out that would have been nice and then now we're in our 50s and looking around and realizing I have not stopped to even

that really rooted to perimenopause if somebody would have figured that out that would have been nice and then now we're in our 50s and looking around and realizing I have not stopped to even look around and how insane that is and now I'm halfway because I always say I hope to live to be 100 I'm viewing it halfway halfway um but I'm halfway and it's I feel like this is the first time where I've actually taken a breath and looked around and I think a lot of Gen Xers not just women I think a lot of Gen Xers feel that way because we've just been because that's how we were raised just grind through you just go through you just go through it do you mean that like literally or can you can you unplug and kind of decompress on a weekend or if you take time off or anything like that or you literally still just kind of going and going and going I I just mean about breathing in general you know like I like I was saying like being 18 and out of the house and like having to survive on my own I do think that's why I married my husband like really young you know and um because I was just like please like I need somebody by my side you know yeah I don't want to do this by myself and then um and then you know we were together 11 years and then we got divorced and then I'm a single mom you know and then I you know and I'm the career my career being what it is is very volatile and um yeah so even like I hear what you're saying like do I have relax on the weekend show like sure but I just mean like in general yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and I think it's it's uh very common for all of us too and I think it's also one of the reasons so many of us have drank like you know I had a good period of my life I was a functioning alcoholic meaning I would

very common for all of us too and I think it's also one of the reasons so many of us have drank like you know I had a good period of my life I was a functioning alcoholic meaning I would have at least two glasses of wine and night easily without even thinking about it Friday and Saturday we would party throw I think a lot of us dealt with that to come down from the you know the tension I guess I guess I've just learned that I'm a functioning alcoholic yeah I definitely am having a couple of glasses of wine like uh like because I always joke I'm like I do not need to stay this aware like what am I fighting Jason Bourne you know like I do not need to be this aware at all times like I do it all okay but then you know it also has helped us it's just been a just the cherry on top the gift is social media because in 24 seven news network because at least growing up we didn't have that but then they handed that to Gen X and now we're really plugged in and now we're really worried about everything because then it's like now we're super aware of it so I think that just inject like for us we have to make an effort to um plug or else we'll go crazy we'll learn be in our mind I'll just be you know without so but I think that has not helped us at all with that no no definitely not and I am too much I think it's I go back and forth you know I'm like I should stop paying attention you know like stop stop paying attention but also I just feel like the minute I do you know like all more shit is gonna keep happening you know I know it's the weird thing of note of trying to it's the balance of wanting to be aware and and do good where you can but also understanding so much is not in your control and how much of your mental health are

weird thing of note of trying to it's the balance of wanting to be aware and and do good where you can but also understanding so much is not in your control and how much of your mental health are you willing to sacrifice right for that and it's that constant balance and struggle and I think and I don't know if that's genetics or if that's just every I'm not sure but I feel like Gen X because Gen X as much as we're like we don't care we drink from the garden hose but we do what happened in our lifetime we're very empathetic and we're very we will mind our business but if you need our help we're the first ones to step up we're not nosy but we'll be there for you so we do care but we also have have we kind of also can stand back and just kind of let things happen because we're it's a weird thing really with our our personalities I think I don't know we've gone through so much like I always think it's very funny when the millennials are like we went through the recession at 9 11 I'm like where we are alive like we were here too yeah but add to that I don't know AIDS add in you know like thinking that Russia was gonna blow us up our entire lives like add in acid rain do you remember acid rain everybody forgot about that and the whole of nose only are like yes I just find it so funny that there I was like yeah I remember because I was here as well taking care of your houses yeah yeah we were younger we were still paying it and figuring it out the space shuttle and then do you did you guys ever go through um like I remember laying in the back of my mom's pacer in a gas line and there was no air conditioning just sweating because the gas lines and like the late wasn't that the late 70s they had the red flags or the green flag at the gas station

there was no air conditioning just sweating because the gas lines and like the late wasn't that the late 70s they had the red flags or the green flag at the gas station your town so you guys are just a little bit older than me okay and that that window being born in 71 and versus 74 like okay that's distinctly that would matter without seat belts looking out you might have been in like a car carrier apparently apparently the first car seat so when my mom did bring me home from the hospital it was she was holding me yeah but then but then I did get a car seat but apparently car seats were just kind of like um almost like folding chairs you know that you have outside like the first car seats and she she was she tells me that she was like waiting at at um to pick something up or something and she's like sitting in the front seat and she could see me in the rearview mirror and then she looked up again and she couldn't see me again and she's like where are you and she looks back and I'm walking across the back seat with the car seats trapped in my back get myself free that's amazing Gen X that is so Gen X I'm oh my gosh that is so fun yeah that sounds about right sounds about right okay so you meet your husband he was selling furniture too then right yes okay so how long from the time you guys started dating till when you got married um I met him when I was 20 but I was still dating the other guy and so I broke up with him I want to say maybe we got married when I was 25 so okay yeah so we knew each other for quite a while before getting married couple years wasn't like my parents you know yeah like six months now was he from Denver no he was from Michigan oh that's right and said that okay so he just happened to be living in Denver

wasn't like my parents you know yeah like six months now was he from Denver no he was from Michigan oh that's right and said that okay so he just happened to be living in Denver he moved because his friend Bill moved out there and they had he had visited to go snowboarding and we all snowboarded back then that was like yeah because I was like a real cool girl you know and so I could talk for hours about me being such a freaking pick me because I was the world's biggest pick me and um and so he moved out there because he he wanted to do something but he always like wanted to move back to Michigan because he was one of eight kids like his parents were like a big Catholic family and so he wanted to move back to Michigan we're in Michigan um he grew up in Troy Michigan which is like um just outside of Detroit we ended up living in a tiny town called Milford Michigan because oh it's funny because if you think about my trajectory like growing up on the east coast right beautiful new England then I moved to New Mexico for a little bit beautiful moved to Colorado gorgeous and then we go to Michigan and we drive to go to Michigan and we end up at his parents house at night and then the next day driving around Troy I just sobbed I was like this is the ugliest fucking place I've ever seen it once I was so sad it was nothing but strip malls and it was all flat and never I had never seen anything like it and so um at the time he had so he had moved with the furniture company the furniture company actually forced me to quit they they were like you guys can't be dating and we never had a rule against dating he didn't even work in the same store as me he worked in a different location and um but they forced me to

they they were like you guys can't be dating and we never had a rule against dating he didn't even work in the same store as me he worked in a different location and um but they forced me to quit so he moved with the furniture store that had made a location in Flint and I worked in an arbor and it just so happened that we we literally looked at an actual map and picked a town that was right in between the two and that's where I ended up raising my kids and how'd you like what in arbor um so I love Ann Arbor my my oldest went to the University of Michigan so um yeah I love it there I was just why did they make you quit not him I took one for the team because by then you know because I'm the girl I don't know and also by then he he was like an assistant manager okay yeah and the other little guy but he was a little bit higher up yeah okay so did you guys get married in Denver or Michigan in Michigan and did you get engaged in Denver though like when you moved you knew you were going to get married so it was a controversial topic at the time because I did not want to move unless we were engaged and he didn't want to get engaged until I moved there and decided I liked it because he didn't want me to like hightail it out of there and so I ended up being like okay you know I'll do that and so we got engaged in in Michigan and then um and you lived in Milford did you keep and then you said once you had your first daughter you started to stay home uh yeah I started so I had had a semi-traumatic miscarriage like around 15 16 weeks like I had already seen the heartbeat you know all that it was it was kind of traumatic and um so and I had a very stressful job at the time and when I got pregnant again um I I quit like relatively early

seen the heartbeat you know all that it was it was kind of traumatic and um so and I had a very stressful job at the time and when I got pregnant again um I I quit like relatively early into the pregnancy because I was like I don't want to yeah have a stressful job and so um I started staying home before Aspen was even born and you still selling furniture in Ann Arbor is that what you were doing no no I was working um I was working for a place called Mobile Dentist which I know does not sound stressful at all but we um we really stressful we would um go to all the schools like throughout the state and we would take care of all the kids who like had Medicare or Medicaid and um and couldn't like their parents you know very like uh you know kids who needed assistance and we would do like all the teeth cleanings and all of that at the schools but Michigan's a big place so oftentimes like I would my call time would be like 3 45 in the morning to like go drive to you know Paul Paul Michigan or something crazy yeah and see kids all day and then you know do it again the next day that is a stressful job so I I understand why you you quit yeah yeah it was like a crazy and stressful office too like the culture was terrible yeah how long between um your miscarriage and your daughter being born um so I uh I want to say a year maybe yeah it was kind of crazy because I um I got pregnant the weekend of 9 11 um because uh because uh we were supposed to go to Greece for our um anniversary and 9 11 happened we were supposed to go to Greece on 9 12 and 9 11 happened oh wow and I felt so guilty because I cried a lot about not being able to go to Greece and that's very selfish of me but I um so instead we took like a little uh

Greece on 9 12 and 9 11 happened oh wow and I felt so guilty because I cried a lot about not being able to go to Greece and that's very selfish of me but I um so instead we took like a little uh road trip to Chicago and um do you remember that people back then were like standing on the side of the highway with like with candles and like flags and all that and so we we drove through a lot of random people doing that and then I ended up getting pregnant that weekend and had the miscarriage like in at the end of November beginning of December and um but then I want to say I was pregnant for Aspen in the spring by by that year and then your second daughter was 16 months after so you were pregnant pregnant pregnant yeah yeah Aspen was six months old when I got pregnant for Viv yeah so and you'd had this traumatic miscarriage and then you're pregnant again and then pregnant again and it have and living somewhere with no family and I had bad postpartum too like I I remember that was the first time I ever went to therapy because I I remember after Viv I got really scared of the knives in the house like I I was I was like I don't want to touch the knives because the the babies were so small that I could hurt them like I was just like I was scared of my own hands like I remember feeling that way um because we had a big uh brick fireplace and I remember this was with Aspen actually coming home with Aspen and I was like I could just hug this baby like it was too much you know it was just like overwhelming and I I had to go outside and like take walks around the house because I was like like my hands are scary is that how you would describe postpartum to people is that you're just filled with intrusive thoughts I guess I hadn't thought about it

around the house because I was like like my hands are scary is that how you would describe postpartum to people is that you're just filled with intrusive thoughts I guess I hadn't thought about it like that but yeah that right because that that makes sense because that is just an intrusive like I'm obviously not going to throw the baby right and that's what the therapist had told me at the time he he said the difference uh like you're not evil or anything like that the difference is is that like some people like the evil people are the ones who do it like you just like are thinking it we're just having those intrusive thoughts and it I don't know if your therapist was they told you this or if I don't know if you know this is is it related to the hormone fluctuations I have to be because I I remember having that after I had the miscarriage right because this is what also like drives me crazy about like uh and this is a tangent I guess but like people who are like um anti-abortion and all of that stuff to like the when they always have this like talk track that like women are just like having abortions rather than like you know um using birth control it's like your body is instantly ruined like the the second you get pregnant you are in a whole new chemical soup and and like I felt pregnant still after my miscarriage for months like for it like for your your body to clear that out like you're it's an incredible thing like people don't talk about that portion enough you know where you're a pregnancy is a whole new chemical experience that doesn't just like flush out the minute you know it's so funny that you say that I had never thought about that because I did have an abortion at 22 and um and I was six weeks so I got it early

that doesn't just like flush out the minute you know it's so funny that you say that I had never thought about that because I did have an abortion at 22 and um and I was six weeks so I got it early but no one talked about any of that but I know in my I can remember for months after that I was so fucked up in the head I thought more fucked up than my normal fucked upness and I know I you just you just cleared that up for me that's what was going on as my body was the hormones everything was fluctuating and trying to get back to normal because I'm no longer pregnant but um but my body doesn't know that like it's still trying to figure that out and I'm 22 and I'm still in college and I'm losing my mind and that's that's what it was yeah yeah it's like you're like how you lose your mind before your period anyway yeah whatever and I had that horrible I've had a hysterectomy in 2020 but up until then even I had horrible pms oh my god horrible me too I had such bad periods I had I had a hysterectomy um in 20 what year is it 25 I had in 24 and um and oh my god my whole life like was just like it's so crazy and I know uh I know he finds all this actually very interesting someone framed the miscarriage and your body's still pregnant the way you just summed it up which makes perfect sense and I guarantee no one's thinking about it yeah and I'm a guy so it doesn't impact me nearly as much but for you as women in our daughters it does impact the men who are with those women it's as a personal level that it's it's wild to think of it the way you framed it because I think you're spot on and I don't know if anyone's talking about it maybe if you go to your your doctor no that I don't know it's like the doctors are even worse somehow like yeah they'll

because I think you're spot on and I don't know if anyone's talking about it maybe if you go to your your doctor no that I don't know it's like the doctors are even worse somehow like yeah they'll tell you to shake it off yeah like the I I have a lot of friends who are like oh I'll only go to a female gynecologist or whatever and I just ended up going to men because I found the the women to be worse because they have like I feel like they have internalized misogyny from having to like fight their way through the medical system you know it even gets taken seriously as women doctors that they're they're worse in a lot of ways yeah that's a good point no I've definitely I've come across somewhere um in fact I didn't have my OB do my hysterectomy I went to a different OB who was a man because I didn't feel like I was being totally hurt and I do love her but um at that moment I wasn't being hurt and so I needed a second opinion and one of my um another woman I know who just had one said oh I went to this doctor and I love him go see him and I did love him and it was and he was very empathetic yeah different way yep so um I don't know I had a female gynecologist when I had my miscarriage and um oh it was so wild it was so wild that I I went to the appointment um without my uh ex at the time and it was just like because I was having some issues like I was bleeding on and off and all that stuff and but we had already seen the heartbeat and all that so we're like okay it's cool and then I went to this appointment no more heartbeat and I'm like by myself with this woman and then she's like well you can go home and let it happen naturally or I can like get you in to for a dnc tomorrow I was like let it like I was

heartbeat and I'm like by myself with this woman and then she's like well you can go home and let it happen naturally or I can like get you in to for a dnc tomorrow I was like let it like I was just gonna go home and what just like bleed out slowly you know pretty much weeks and I was so devastated I was like you have to take it out immediately you know and then um so I had the dnc and all that stuff and it was just like such a traumatic time and um and then months later I went in for like a normal checkup and she um you know how they find abnormal cells like on your cervix sometime or whatever and she wanted to do um some kind of biopsy called the loop you know and I this is early days of the internet and so I was like well I want to get pregnant what does this do to me you know and it was like well that can compromise your cervix and you know maybe you would have another miscarriage because the cervix isn't you know solid or whatever and um I was like that bitch like that bitch because I want to be pregnant and how dare she want to just chop me up you know and so um I found another gynecologist a guy and um for a second opinion he's like yeah you don't need that and then this guy he had um his dad had been a gynecologist and they he had taught him to keep all of his tools heated like he had a heating pad inside the drawer so all of his stuff was all heated and he like showed me on the tv like what the cervix looks like and all this stuff and um it was just a great experience my god I mean how low is the bar that when you said he kept his tools heated I almost wanted to start crying like what a gesture he just how do you know what they put in oh no I get it I made the instant connection I was like that's pretty good no but I mean what a

heated I almost wanted to start crying like what a gesture he just how do you know what they put in oh no I get it I made the instant connection I was like that's pretty good no but I mean what a gesture and and that and that's the bare minimum if you think about it come on but these women doctors aren't doing this like this I know I don't understand like I don't know anybody like no no no no no no well and think about it there's so many things that we have to go through where they don't give us any pain med oh you could have it like what like if they do a biopsy or if they need to do um because I did have that I had that they did a biopsy and that is painful or if they have to um just different I would just have something because I have a little bit of prolapse going on so I'm having to have them look at that and um when I was there for that appointment she's like we're just gonna check your bladder and I'm thinking oh and I just was there just to talk to her and we're just gonna put this thing up through through inside and and through your urethra or whatever right that's what it is and um or is that guys no we have a urethra right yeah yeah all the news it's just gonna be like women don't have that it's worth if they have to be in the jungle and it's like we're just gonna put up your urethra and they did and I'm like and and now I'm older I'm like wait are you doing anything for pain she goes well we can put some laticain I'm like yeah whatever you have well 20 years ago I would have been like I'm like whatever you can do right do it but even that there was no real pain and I had and I love it it's always take a deep breath deep breath just relax just a little pin yeah just a little pinch yeah so many things that are

there was no real pain and I had and I love it it's always take a deep breath deep breath just relax just a little pin yeah just a little pinch yeah so many things that are just a little pinched but I know that if men had to do it they'd get pain medicine it drives me crazy it just you know it makes me think it's good to be again he always says I guess good to be good to be a guy because this is what you guys go through what you women go through is crazy no well yeah did you hear about there is a whole podcast about it this um woman nurse who was stealing the fentanyl um that she was yeah she was supposed to be giving it was at a fertility clinic and she was supposed to be giving it to the patients and instead they were just doing bags of saline and so all these women are complaining about all this pain and they're like shut the fuck up you know like this doesn't hurt and because nobody gets believed you know and yeah I'm saying I didn't know that ever I know a nurse stealing fentanyl I didn't like read into it on the side type or you see it no she was selling it she's selling it yeah asshole no no kidding my god talk about internal massage I mean that's like internal massage to it as well yeah absolutely absolutely right right so you're home you've got your two babies yes um and you're you're you're going through the postpartum thing um when did that when did you start to feel okay I'm okay a couple years okay and mainly it was the lack of sleep I never slept because I also believed um we believed so many things you know like gen x was just not that advanced uh the way everybody is today and um like I was of the attitude well my husband's working and I'm at home so he should never get up at night and he

know like gen x was just not that advanced uh the way everybody is today and um like I was of the attitude well my husband's working and I'm at home so he should never get up at night and he never did hello me too I never slept I fell asleep driving twice like with the babies in the car and it was my youngest Vivian she um she did not sleep because this is this is a whole other thing you know how uh it was all back to sleep for us you know and but when we were little because we didn't want sids right we don't want our babies to die but when we were young it was just like however you sleep sleep on your stomach you know whatever and our parents were like if they live they live or whatever so here's here's Viv who um was a thumb sucker in the womb but then we're doing back to sleep and so there they're noodles right so she couldn't get her thumb anymore because we're also like swaddling her because that worked for her sister yeah so she cried for the first five months of her her life like did not sleep and not take a binky that was also me being type a and I'm like I'm not giving these I'm breastfeeding I'm not giving them passies you know like all of this stuff because I'm like I'm fucking doing it you know that's what good women do right that's what and you know it was all this competition too of like there's a good one there's a better because gen x women in general were raised to compete against each other with everything like not the gen the gen z girls are really supportive and girlhood and you go girl we weren't like that we were like I'm competing with that woman for a man I'm competing that with that woman for how good of a mom I am compared to her it was so different I never thought about it that way but you're right

I'm competing with that woman for a man I'm competing that with that woman for how good of a mom I am compared to her it was so different I never thought about it that way but you're right like the like my level of like pick me ism you know because it was a competition everything you're everything and we should do it all and we better do it all well and whoever did the best is the winner of what yeah exhaustion burnout honestly kids first memory is you crying you know way but to the outside world you looked great yeah I think the illusion the illusion you're rocking the illusion no no I he also worked and I was home part of it my chaotic childhood I just went into that 1950s life and all because it was the exact opposite of anything close that I ever had and I just needed I needed the stability I needed to make the cookies and all that stuff but I did I was young 23 and um so I did really I was like I shouldn't wake him up he's so I and I think that's very common with gen x women we just were like they're traditional like they're doing even if they were working even if the woman was working she still would take it all on because no one ever talked to us about you don't have to do that he should be doing half especially if you're both working he should be doing half of what you're doing in the home that has changed though I work with two guys who've had younger kids and they'll tell me how they're sharing that load at night they're millennials they're millennials yeah I will itself admit I didn't get up no no yeah yeah he's so I had to get up and do the work type of thing you did and I was home so rational I'm not the thing to get down I was exhausted and I was burned out and all the things I was going through you know I didn't know

type of thing you did and I was home so rational I'm not the thing to get down I was exhausted and I was burned out and all the things I was going through you know I didn't know I will say I did not have postpartum so I can't speak to it um that was the one thing I didn't get but I got all the other stuff yeah me too yeah so but I do think it's awesome whenever I hear about millennials that I think they've been huge in the cultural shift of all that well even my brother so he's gen x right yeah so I'm 51 and he's actually about to be 49 I lied he is 48 and but but my nieces are 10 and 6 so okay he had kids like way later you know and um the way that they worked it was that when the baby would cry and need to be fed in the night he would go get the baby bring it he would change the baby's diaper bring you know the baby to his wife to be fed and you know they were both working at the time but like that that already big huge shift you know um partnership yeah but we were the first I was just talking about this the other day we were the first to be like oh we're pregnant like we did that to ourselves yeah yeah we gave away all of our credit like we're just like we're right at that yes I totally didn't think about that about that that's so true yeah what to expect when you're expecting bullshit maybe I know I liked that book that book helped me a lot but yeah use the word we you are not remember gather pregnant yeah maybe yeah yeah maybe maybe I never thought about we should have held on to that no because that we did a whole we did a whole disappearing act because we we said we are pregnant right so we exist less as women but also at work we were just like because we're we're all working now and we're like oh I'm just like a man who's just

we are pregnant right so we exist less as women but also at work we were just like because we're we're all working now and we're like oh I'm just like a man who's just fatter temporarily you know that's it like that's kind of how we acted about it you know yeah yeah I'll go pump in a broom closet like I don't this didn't exist like this didn't happen yeah um and that and we we were forced essentially it like were we forced or did we like not force it like we are always too scared of like not we couldn't get fired but we could always not be taken seriously anymore you know like all like we have to act like none of this is happening yeah we already do it like with our periods and whatever yeah like I had so many dramatic period moments on the job yeah work when I went back to work oh my god the female experience completely was not honored in any way for Jenna especially as Genex women were really like I guess our our moms were the first to really go into that workforce in the 80s so when we grew up it was natural that we're all supposed to work um it was odd to be home like I will say when I stayed home that was odd um so by then it was like you're saying we were just supposed to act like men in the workforce in order to get promotions be respected be included you know and all but then but then that our female experience we had to shush and quiet down and just stand over go over there you don't exist because if if I breathe if you come out at all it's going to screw me here yeah you know so but I think it's true do you think it's changed at all fit uh no actually and this might be a little bit controversial I did make a video about this but like I had been seeing a lot of um content and there was actually

uh no actually and this might be a little bit controversial I did make a video about this but like I had been seeing a lot of um content and there was actually some law that they were trying to pass in the UK to like get women disability or whatever for men applause you know like for like having you know all the issues and I'm like oh my god stop like we're we're not there you know that's the problem with it like already I'm at the age where it is oh what's coming for me now age discrimination you know like nobody wants to listen to some old bitch you know and whatever and and technically for me and you and what uh like this is our peak earning years because it is the peak earning years for men but yet we have all all these women and it kind of makes me mad I know that doesn't sound like that doesn't sound okay but it makes me upset to hear all these women just like talking about oh I have brain fog I have all this stuff I'm like don't put this in men's head they're going to fucking fight with you totally three such a no-win situation because oh bad we don't want women feeling crazy that they're alone and crazy they we want them to be educated like these symptoms need to be treated get on some HRT if you're a candidate you'll start to feel normal diet all the different supplements all the things so we want them to have the resource for the information so they don't feel isolated and alone but we don't want it to be weaponized against us by men that's it weaponized like I've had lost the word that's exactly it though imagine you're you're a 51 year old woman and then like the CEO because I work with all startups now the CEO of uh not my current startup but could be CEO is a 37 year old guy like oh he's gonna he's gonna scroll

51 year old woman and then like the CEO because I work with all startups now the CEO of uh not my current startup but could be CEO is a 37 year old guy like oh he's gonna he's gonna scroll through tick tock and learn about me having you know brain fog and you know he's doing blame something maybe on brain fog and it's not just worse you see they're gonna fire you or not hire you because of your age because now you're a liability I agree with you it's you got to be careful what you wish for and that's what you do though because it's a no-win situation it's the cultural world in that sense well I I pretend I'm just like oh I've had hysterectomy so I don't have any problems oh there you go like no like like I guess you're having to show you feel well you have to have damn know what I mean because I don't need to have any experiences at work I will just be a robot listen depression yeah you can come on at 6 p.m tonight that's all right you have to hide you granted I saw that I haven't even thought about that yeah yeah that's oh that's just a that's a tough one that's that's also inclusive of of just ageism right as as all of us get older and it's a change you know that just happens but you take the double hit I don't think you guys I don't think you guys deal with ageism in nearly the same way I think you do but like in different uh like um fields you know like like let's say you're like you know you're more of a laborer or construction worker whatever then yes like but then if you're like in a white collar business like you can work forever you know like you're you're looked at at differently but I think that I don't know about you guys but I have forever in my life given up the idea of retirement but also it's also because just because of how I

differently but I think that I don't know about you guys but I have forever in my life given up the idea of retirement but also it's also because just because of how I am like I would never want to retire poor and so like because to me I'm like what's the point of being home if all I can do is I don't know like putter in a garden I've yeah hate gardening I just have to stay in my house I would rather work and and the idea of like having just a declining balance yeah until death like freaks me the fuck out like and so I would rather work until I die I think that's a gen x thing I see that all over gen xers don't plan on retiring and I think it's for not just for monetary reasons but I do think we there's a weird thing and if we keep working we won't die or if we keep keep doing these things we'll keep living and thrive like keep in it keep plugged in keep in society I don't think we want to go sit in the chair and watch TV and wait to die or sit on the porch in the rock they're like we were like no what's next what are we gonna do next you know head of us once they retired I don't know you know they didn't live on forever and ever they died oh yeah so I don't plan on retiring no I don't think that's a thing so then um how long you got you said you guys were married 11 years yeah so when you went back to work what did you do so I when I went back to work I I really really lucked out and this is like my whole how I got lucky in my whole career so I um uh I had always been like a tinkerer and a like an inventor and so I um I ended up um because I did like marketing stuff prior to so I had done like copy copywriting and and things like that and um I had this is uh sounds like a crazy story but um I had always

I ended up um because I did like marketing stuff prior to so I had done like copy copywriting and and things like that and um I had this is uh sounds like a crazy story but um I had always made like inventions and when my dad and like in his little workshop and stuff like that I was always coming up with ideas like that when I was a little kid like the first thing I ever invented uh we lived on a dirt road so I made um like a drawing of like screen windows for cars I was like because I wanted to have the windows open because we didn't have AC but like I didn't want dirt and stuff to fly in the car and like like filters for cars yeah yeah but I was like six years old when I made that and so I had always been making stuff and I at this point I had made this prototype for um it sounds like crazy story so anyway um you know how women would in the in the like the late 90s early 2000s were using those big velcro rollers like I people probably still use them you know that big velcro hair rollers you know I'm talking about like to put in your hair oh yeah yeah yeah and so I didn't use them obviously but I saw these women at the gym and like they're they would bring all these rollers with them and their gym bag would just be full of rollers and I was like there's a better way to do that so I made um a prototype I went to Joanne fabric and I bought this velcro and a hot glue gun and I made velcro rollers that were just like in squares and you could like roll them up different sizes so you could just put them in a packet you know what I'm saying yeah and so I had made that prototype but then I am like uh a nobody living in the you know in Milford Michigan and I didn't know what you did next you know like I don't know how you get

I had made that prototype but then I am like uh a nobody living in the you know in Milford Michigan and I didn't know what you did next you know like I don't know how you get something made or do you get a patent nothing like that so it just so happened that there was a company called Hometix which maybe you guys have heard yeah so that company is in Michigan and they had an opening for like a marketing position and so when I went I was like I'm gonna bring this prototype with me that I made and I ended up getting a job as a product an assistant product person instead of like a marketing copywriting type of job because I showed it to the guy who I interviewed with who was like the the COO of the company who ended up being like my my the biggest mentor in my in my life and so I worked my way up through that company as far as I was gonna get like I was only gonna get so far but I have um I ended up with a bunch of patents with them like for a while there I was making most all the sound machines that exist you know like the little like noise machines they get for babies yeah like that I I was making all the almost all the ones that were on the market at the time you were inventing them the sound machines uh-huh like I had um I had a few that were just straight up like my my product and I would work with the engineers to you know design them and then go back and forth to China to work with the factories and all of this stuff and I really like looked into this job by like bringing them that prototype I had with the no no no but what's funny is somebody else did and this is this is what's interesting about the entire world like even now on TikTok not too long ago I got an ad for a product I invented like no because they'll just steal it like

did and this is this is what's interesting about the entire world like even now on TikTok not too long ago I got an ad for a product I invented like no because they'll just steal it like in China that's how it goes like if you don't like it's very hard to like protect things but I was like no way that's my thing I like one of my one of my first products that I made with the company but um so surreal I can't even that's such a unique life experience what you just described yeah I think so I'll send you I'll text you the because I made a video about it it's old like it's from a while ago now yeah and um so anyway uh after I left there um yeah I had so many amazing experiences there like we the company had a private jet you know I would I would fly uh to China like all business class and we always stayed this was before Trump was the Trump that we know now but like he had just beautiful hotels and so we would always stay at all the Trump hotels and I had I had such a fancy life um and this is working here what early 30s yep and so um Aspen and Viv uh were like five and four I think maybe when I started working there and so you're traveling then well this is what happened and so I didn't really start traveling until after uh my ex and I got divorced and I tell everybody the only reason why I have my career is because we had 50-50 custody if I ever gotten divorced I would not have my career because it was always like like I had to come home like what you're saying you know like even if you're working you're still mom who is doing everything yeah and so I would schedule all of my work travel on the days that I didn't have the kids and um and that's that's how we were able to build your career and participate in all aspects of it so how come you guys got

would schedule all of my work travel on the days that I didn't have the kids and um and that's that's how we were able to build your career and participate in all aspects of it so how come you guys got divorced um honestly it we just ultimately were not compatible and um and like it was all me it was all me he was gonna sound so bad um I I don't think he actually liked me like I I honestly think it was more like um what do they say in Sex in the City like when the taxi light is on yeah and like um my daughter uh she always brings it up it's like the taxi cab theory or something like that but it's not that yeah like when you're ready the next woman that shows up is the one they're gonna marry and that was me and even when we were dating before we even left Denver I was like you don't like me you know like you know like and I tried to break up with him I was like I swear too much I'm too wild you know like all this stuff like you don't actually like me and he was like no no no he never fully accepted you like he was always kind of trying to change you that's what how I felt right and so um and yeah so that's I was like yeah do you do you think your professional success had anything to do with it definitely didn't help like me wanting to go back to work because I I was dying at like I was saying about being a stay-at-home mom and I was like I'm I can't do this and probably going from dying to thriving though and something sounds like that yeah it really you know um and people it was it was very guilt-ridden at the time because people would be like well why did you even have kids which is a crazy assertion to make you know nobody says that to a man um and and I remember when I first started working there like the guys that I worked with

like well why did you even have kids which is a crazy assertion to make you know nobody says that to a man um and and I remember when I first started working there like the guys that I worked with they were like because I'd be there late you know because I was thriving and like loving life and they're like don't you have to go home you know and I was like well my husband's home you know what they yeah yeah you know like don't you have to go home yeah no no no exactly exactly and so um yeah yeah so then you did you file were you the one that oh yeah yeah I was I was the the one I was just like I can't um yeah the I couldn't we had um there's probably more stuff that I don't want to get into but we had a lot of political disagreements um where he had over time become very very conservative and and we went to therapy and I remember the one time the therapist said you know like some couples grow together like this and then other couples grow like this and I I was like that that's what's happened so then when you got divorced I assume you had to stay living in Milford right with the girls so um I I just got an apartment like down the street and I let him have the house because I was like just you know how it is well maybe you don't know how it is but you just like want it to end you know and I was just like whatever you have the house and um and so I got an apartment down the street and um we always lived uh even after I bought um a house and whatever we lived down the street from each other so the girls didn't have to change schools and everything was very smooth for them yes yeah and you guys co-parented really well together yeah I I mean in the end like we um he like he does not like me um and it's not like and uh and

and everything was very smooth for them yes yeah and you guys co-parented really well together yeah I I mean in the end like we um he like he does not like me um and it's not like and uh and but it was we were always there for the kids and um he was actually he is an awesome dad and um he he was probably better at a lot of things than I was as a mom you know when it came to like as the kids got older um with me traveling all the time for work and stuff he was always the one who was like taking the kids to like their sports and and all that stuff and he got super involved my my youngest is actually like a third degree black belt in uh wow Taekwondo and um and he was like got and she was like at one point when she was 12 she was like the international champion to champion in her belt class but that was like travel that was travel though you know yeah yeah florida traveling to you know canada you know all that type of stuff that's so cool yeah and he and the way we kind of split it though was that I would stay home with my oldest you know and then he would travel so it wasn't like this big family expensive affair and um yeah I uh probably you guys when you got divorced I I think one of the pros if you have if your ex-husband I'm speaking as a woman is going to be a good father or is a good father one of the pros of divorce is they step up have to step up and are more involved with their children and it ends up being such a positive experience for their children that relationship with their father because the mother isn't there to fall back on so they have to do even more with them and as a result their relationship is even better in some ways you know because they I think so they they have so many of those little nuanced experiences together

have to do even more with them and as a result their relationship is even better in some ways you know because they I think so they they have so many of those little nuanced experiences together because there isn't the mother there yeah if he's going to be a good dad that doesn't always happen right you know no if he was he was a great dad um and he still is a great dad yeah that's great so then you so you guys get divorced you have your own place that actually probably was pretty cool right getting your own apartment oh my god it was okay yeah no it was um her own place in and our house that would be perfect oh my god it was honestly like I was just like wow like it was very stressful you know don't get me wrong because back then I was still like a young product person I was not making a lot of money you know whatever so it was very stressful but um but yeah definitely having my own place but then also it was just like coming back alive and dating again was absolutely crazy because I've been with my ex since I was 20 years old you know I'm like 30 like yeah it was like 34 at the time so and that would have been when apps were dating apps were like what were the dating apps then so it wasn't apps yeah oh okay yeah so it was yeah oh okay yeah so this all happened like very quickly like it wasn't apps on the phone it was match.com on the computer oh yeah yeah and there were a few others that are now gone like maybe it was called chemistry and then there was um e-harmony which I did not do but it was before it was prior to tinder and like all of those so what was it like going back in the dating world and having meeting men and all of that like did I learn every single lesson and this goes to like what we were talking about on on text but

those so what was it like going back in the dating world and having meeting men and all of that like did I learn every single lesson and this goes to like what we were talking about on on text but it was like um at first at first I was very much like oh I'm gonna find a love you know or whatever you know because like I had just picked wrong for me you know like we were ultimately not compatible and I had picked wrong and I blamed myself you know you got married too young you know all this stuff so the world is my oyster like I I was I had met my ex so young that I didn't like I didn't have bad ideas about men you know in general like I didn't I didn't have any kind of bad taste in my mouth I was like oh it's gonna be a fucking carnival up here so I was like so excited. You're rubbing your hands together unless it's because like if I if I love anything on earth it's making out you know give me some good old fashion dry hump and like that's my house and so anyway I could not wait to get back out there and I and I realized like things had changed you know like when it came to um sex when it came to expectations when it came to like anything and a lot of it for a long time I was very much like um we're just older you know like when you're with somebody from you guys know from very young you're kind of like this is how we do it this is what we like we know each other whatever yeah well this was when I first came upon like the expectation of hairlessness you know because like yes you know Gen X we went into our marriages full bush yes it was just like cleaning up a bikini line you know so you know like you know scare people out in public but like yeah if that was it and then all of a sudden it's like oh yeah take this

yes it was just like cleaning up a bikini line you know so you know like you know scare people out in public but like yeah if that was it and then all of a sudden it's like oh yeah take this down to the studs like that's crazy yeah true well like not only now to the legs and the arms every we're hairless cats basically yeah bazillion wax like what yeah I the first time I did that I was I'm pouring sweat the wax can't even attach because I'm just like pouring sweat and then she like rips it off and I'm like bleeding like oh my god I'm French we have like big hair bowls you know like so like we are hairy people and I'm like never doing this again you know like to put here I remember I had to put like my legs up like had my like I'm giving birth like when you get birth and you have to hold it was like I'm like okay you know you're just like Gen X you're like whatever you say I'll do I'm a people pleaser but I yeah and then and then people like started getting it lasered and all that stuff oh I know too I never went that far because I'm thinking out like now I think bushes are coming back I think they are yeah I think Gen X women wandering around with like a calloused hood oh we look like the Gen Z's that can't grow a full beard it's gray and she's out there like yeah well we just we just well no but the young men they like you didn't go through this and I don't know if millennials brought it they manscaped the Gen Z too yeah I have my I uh he'll kill me I won't say it because he's my interesting mother my mother you doing well he's Gen X so they they don't barely shower so he's like oh go ahead now can you imagine shaving your balls like that is insane but I think they do and I think they hold their leg up too it's so dangerous like it's like

don't barely shower so he's like oh go ahead now can you imagine shaving your balls like that is insane but I think they do and I think they hold their leg up too it's so dangerous like it's like nothing but like it's like a finished paper you want to have children you know don't do it it's permanent but an artery exactly no but okay so so you're in the dating scene you're a hairless cat and then how's it going oh then and then also there's like so I purposefully this is where I made so many mistakes like I purposely was like I want to date somebody who's also been divorced you know same experience I want to date somebody who also has kids same experience right like I'm just thinking about this completely wrong because I'm not dating a woman I'm dating a man you know and and so and then I wanted somebody who didn't want kids again you know I didn't want to ever have more kids right and so um I'm just I end up dating just an absolute bushel of like busted divorced men like men who like we in Michigan too yeah right like exactly like for the record it's beautiful and I lived there so oh like we we they're everywhere I've got a family in Troy a family mil for I have my family name of town I have a family there but um I didn't grow up there I just would visit my dad when they got divorced when I was two I'd go spend like six weeks because of summer and like every other Christmas so I didn't grow up there but you know a mission I know for a year after we were married so he went through a Michigan winter yeah like it's like Canada cold um so he knows he worked in Michigan during that year so we are familiar with it right right so I'm dating and like all of these men like I didn't learn this until learning right

worked in Michigan during that year so we are familiar with it right right so I'm dating and like all of these men like I didn't learn this until learning right again like I said I have a hard time not like learning stuff until I experience it and all these men had been divorced by their wives like because women are always the ones who file for divorce and why did they do that either because he cheated or he ate shit like that's like one of the two reasons like yeah because like a woman and I do I do think this is hard like you know in the online world and whatever women are not just throwing out amazing men you know and they just aren't and so I learned the hard way though you know like because you believe oh my ex was crazy you know and I like on and on and on and um and then it like boils down to just like the like the sex world had gotten freaking weird and I was thinking about this prior to our conversation and I'm just like for a while there I I think I just thought we were just older and now like like I said about being with somebody since you're young and I was like oh this is what older people do you know so all of a sudden it's like do you mind if I get graphic no oh no we're talking about everything oh okay so like all of a sudden you're getting choked you're you know expected to do anal like the menu of services yeah like compared to what we had when we were young you know which was basically like oh 69 was like that was crazy and um and doggy and then and being on top and then and then uh regular but that was it yeah it sounds more interesting and if she where she was going like you said 69 but that that was it right you know was like scary and weird and not expect like that wasn't something that was part

yeah it sounds more interesting and if she where she was going like you said 69 but that that was it right you know was like scary and weird and not expect like that wasn't something that was part of the natural repertoire that was more fetish or like you would say he asked for he asked for anal can you believe it but then it's now like I think just that's they brought it in and maybe it was around that time it was brought in well and I do think it's because um like we were talking about just the um the porn yeah like I went from the Gen X life of like what we knew about porn and I think you've seen my video on it and basically like we know you know like you uh when we were kids who saw porn the pervs and the trench coats who went to the triple x theater right and that was when we were really little and we were like those guys are so gross like we we talked about it that way they're losers who can't get girlfriends they don't have wives they're disgusting perverts and then as we got older obviously we got VCRs you know and and in the 80s too I was thinking about this like we have naked ladies in movies yeah so like you were we were always seeing boobs and bush you know like on and around and about to get killed by somebody yes and everything and everything you were seen was natural it wasn't all it wasn't this expectation of big things you know it was like real boobs not I have nothing against fake boobs at all but everything went so fake that and we'll probably get the bet that I think young men expect boobs to all look like fake boobs yeah they don't right I mean so but then the young men the gen x men when they were watching those movies at least it was all real so when they saw when they saw the real thing it wasn't like a jump scare

right I mean so but then the young men the gen x men when they were watching those movies at least it was all real so when they saw when they saw the real thing it wasn't like a jump scare which it might be for the young men but they're like why aren't they all up here why are they no why is one bigger than the other why aren't they perfect yeah why can I tie them behind her neck so we do it all yeah pretty much yeah so then you know obviously we get VCRs right yeah you still had to as a man publicly out yourself if you wanted to watch porn you had to go to a triple x theater or you had to go to the blockbuster not even blockbuster like the little family video or whatever and go behind the curtain but they had your license they knew who they had your credit like they on record you rented you know like two milfs fisting you know whatever it was and you had to risk that you had to be seen as the creep who went behind them and and other men would judge other men for this you'd be like okay you're a loser you have to wank it because you don't have a girlfriend and then you know obviously playboys and all that existed and um you know like so we found my brother and I found my dad's playboy stash in the basement once you know when I was like visually scandalized and then I remember my brother came home and he had like a porn tape like he had gotten from a friend and he he like showed it to me because my brother and I were super close he's like you have to see this this is crazy and I I wanted to throw up like I was I was like 12 or 13 years old um and I we put it in the VCR after school right you know watch key kids yeah and um I was like that's what sex looks like I was so upset it traumatized well because it was also like

years old um and I we put it in the VCR after school right you know watch key kids yeah and um I was like that's what sex looks like I was so upset it traumatized well because it was also like the angle it burned into my mind it was like literally from the like the guy's butt like going in it's like it's visual for men men want to literally see the medical act like they do actually yes see the penis going in the vagina it like turns them on where women are so much more nuanced like we like the idea of what's going on to see it ever you know we're not visual like that but I mean we've talked about I've told you you know we've had these conversations where I'm like we like that's why I find dick pics to be such a weird thing because no woman wants that we really don't know but men men would want it but men don't want it because they're like the most yeah I don't I don't get guys you don't get guys to send a dick pic yeah fucking crazy to me yeah yeah so yeah all all that they had like throughout time until the internet was static images or if you got a VCR tape but then also like what were you even doing with it like sitting in the living room watching it with your family you know like no like you like you had to figure out the time yeah be alone and struggle was real struggle was real but the struggle needed to exist that is my point because now so I re-enter dating and all of a sudden these guys are disgusting and expecting me to do disgusting things you know like what I literally I don't want to be choked I don't want to be slapped I don't want to be like I don't want to be peed on you know like all this crazy stuff they like I shouldn't would they just yeah would they just try it or would they at least communicate

don't want to be peed on you know like all this crazy stuff they like I shouldn't would they just yeah would they just try it or would they at least communicate with you so I I've talked about this with like all of my friends too and we all think that it happened to multiple of us different stories of like the element of surprise you know like where it's just like um oh I I slipped it in you know like by accident all of a sudden you're like surprise annealing girl or whatever or or like I remember being in a shower with a guy and he's just like oh I'm peeing on you you know and I'm just like what is happening and and like it's always like this surprise element where you're just like taken aback I think that's part of the uh the turn on too probably it's like it's almost like not an assault but it's almost it is it is a free rail to the salt um and it's no no um what do you call it consent or anything but um I think that's part of the hotness maybe in that moment for them is um that they they can just force it on and it's also they're they're seeing how far they can go how far can I go with her oh she'll let me do this I'm gonna try the next thing yeah I couldn't even imagine yeah it was it was horrible it was a horrible time because also I felt like well I should be open right because I again I I was so naive like I just honestly was like oh they have my best interest in heart or they're they're gonna think I'm having a good time with this you know and we're gaslighting yourself yes totally yeah totally I was just like yeah this is probably great you know this is probably feel good or whatever and um and then I I started um realizing the other thing and this is the other big lesson was that um I thought these guys uh dicks didn't work

great you know this is probably feel good or whatever and um and then I I started um realizing the other thing and this is the other big lesson was that um I thought these guys uh dicks didn't work because they were old like because a lot of them had ed problems right really this is oh my god yes and so and this I'll get into it a little bit more but this is so common and I was like okay either of of course gen x I turn on myself and I'm just like oh my god he thinks I'm ugly you know or whatever yeah but then it was like over and over and over and over again and it started being very consistent where guys could not get off unless they did it to themselves so I'm like wait what age are we talking I'm in my 30s these guys are like in their like 30s or 40s and in my mind I was like well they're just getting old maybe they need viagra you know or whatever and um I didn't think about it it wasn't no it wasn't until I started talking to my girlfriends about it and I still talked so this would have been in like um 2013 ish you know so this is like well into um uh like online porn you know whatever and I realized consistently that these guys who had been separated from their wives and started dating again they like binged it you you ever see the family guy where quagmire discovers porn no oh this is very funny because like it is it is funny so quagmire discovers porn and like he doesn't leave the house and when he comes out his one arm is all jacked like big muscle arm and that's like what I think about with these guys you know like they were separated in divorce now and they got to be alone you know in the house and then all of a sudden they're also gen x guys who like fully fully just got to go to town yeah binge endless

in divorce now and they got to be alone you know in the house and then all of a sudden they're also gen x guys who like fully fully just got to go to town yeah binge endless content for free like yeah and weird shit too though and weird and then you keep going down into these further rabbit holes of like weirder and weirder stuff that it takes to like get you there and um and I wrote about it like in because I was writing on medium there for a while and I wrote an article about it in like 2017 or whatever and it was basically like they're they get habituated to like the psi of their own hand you know so like they can't even be with a real woman and like get off again because of the visuals like they've put those visuals of like women who have had medical procedures and and all of that stuff into their mind and um and it's what's really sad now um is a bunch of things like I think as gen x that we have a very unique perspective on this because we got to see the evolution like we were with guys in high school when it was just making out and fun you know and everything was a mystery and now the kids in high school they're I don't even know I don't even know it's honestly so disturbing and I get I get really upset about it because I would love for us to do something about it as society like I think we should be doing something to especially stop the kids from seeing this stuff but it really seems like nobody is doing anything and here's what I realized it is because after I started experiencing this because the men would also send me videos that was the other thing like they're like oh let's see you know oh does this turn you on is this what you're into you know and endlessly sending me videos and

the men would also send me videos that was the other thing like they're like oh let's see you know oh does this turn you on is this what you're into you know and endlessly sending me videos and I'm like what the fuck is happening and so I I started talking to my friends about it because we all had like younger kids at the time and the moms did not know they didn't know because they had been married and with their husbands and all this stuff they did not even know what the kids had access to because even logically they couldn't believe it was free yeah yes why would this just be free yeah and um and I was like look on my phone like just here it is you know like yes whatever and they were appalled but I hate to say it all their husbands knew yeah and and that's just it so what I realized is that it's always the moms who are doing what mothers against drunk driving where like when we were young it was you know whatever tipper gore doing the whole explicit lyrics thing it was nancy reagan with just saying drugs you know like it's women who stop this shit but what's unique about the porn situation is that it's too embarrassing for us and and and what I mean by that is that um if I talk about it like I get called every name in the book you know and then you're at like a certain age where you're like oh you're just an old broad who's not getting any or you get accused of being like super religious right rather than just being like no I don't think your kid should smoke crack and I also don't think yeah be watching step sisters fuck when he's 10 yeah I agree 100 like that is like we have to do something to stop it and everybody is just like what can we do I don't think there's a solution though because in Florida

fuck when he's 10 yeah I agree 100 like that is like we have to do something to stop it and everybody is just like what can we do I don't think there's a solution though because in Florida they do ask for age verification now oh do they interesting but there's vpns to get around it yeah or there's just sites that won't comply and there's just no way to block it but so I don't you know I mean I hear you I don't disagree but with AI now now there's AI porn well yeah I definitely think one thing that would help is that and I think that they're doing this in the UK um is just give kids dumb phones you don't get smartphones if like I want to track you or whatever you just you get a dumb phone I don't care if you're like we all need to agree yeah I'll need to agree I know because I love I what I love about the my kids when they've had phones and our youngest still has when he's 15 is the family group check because we all communicate with each other throughout the day so that's awesome I love being able to track him and we still track her we have our 20 year olds are the ones in their 20s location we don't track them but in case you know there's safety whatever um so I like the tracking I like to be able to communicate with them but I'm fine with everything else being off of our youngest phone and because yeah he has you want to access yeah he has full access to uh porn and I know my oldest so for my oldest he was he's 28 so phones just really came on the scene when he was in middle school up until then there were no phones and I think it was seventh grade when they all started discovering porn on their phones and I know for my 15 year old I think I started here whisperings of it maybe fifth grade yeah and young it's too young

seventh grade when they all started discovering porn on their phones and I know for my 15 year old I think I started here whisperings of it maybe fifth grade yeah and young it's too young it warps their mind it because to me it's like a kid in a candy store like yeah it's your favorite thing you know like I like it is your favorite thing and my even my brother will say he's like had I had access to that as a kid I would have never left home yeah I would be one of the kids in the basement like yeah because he was just that 40 you know and he had like a couple of posters in his room and that was like yeah and so I do tie this all to you know the whole male loneliness crisis that we talk about and all of that stuff because I do think boys have largely lost their mojo like if you never have to work to see a boob if a boob is just in your pocket and has been there yeah it's great like so much of what men have always done and pursued women for were like those moments and that access and you know all of that stuff it was like it was a great thing you know like we were like oh first base second base you know all all of our genics periods and everything yes it's the there's no slow burn technology I've said this before technology and phones have removed the slow burn because even the pursuit they don't even have to pursue in the same way it's all through their phones there's no uh crossing the room to say hello you know it's great it's and you can and my older one he's very anti get kids having social media and all that and he's like it's messed up because you know you can they're they're they text you text back and forth even with the dating apps but you're giving everybody so much time to create their response so it's like the

messed up because you know you can they're they're they text you text back and forth even with the dating apps but you're giving everybody so much time to create their response so it's like the perfect response and then when you're face to face it's like the communication totally breaks down because you weren't that person who was being able to come up with that perfect response you had time to think of it so then you lose the ability to think quickly and have that natural banter because you've been doing it all through technology and had all had been given the privilege of having all this time to come up with the perfect wedding response so that skill isn't practiced does that make sense yeah you know so I think that's been the breakdown but I'm sorry you were gonna say something no I'm just curious there's a question for both you guys and then something you said just spurred the thought for me but when growing up as gen x women were sexualized right there was charlie's angels there was the cover of the supermodel emerged then but porn was still hard to get yet to work for it yes it feels like and this is the question it feels like it's no longer as okay to sexualize women but the porn's easier to get and it's more graphic yeah I think we're living in a very uh a time that makes no sense because like yeah like on that front because I've often said on some videos like um how do we still have a movie rating system like why bother having an r-rated movie when we have kids watching you know sock puppet yeah you know and like knowing what a cream pie is like when there's yeah yeah what the fuck and um and so I I think that at the same like what you're saying is like this is why and I know this is getting too in the

knowing what a cream pie is like when there's yeah yeah what the fuck and um and so I I think that at the same like what you're saying is like this is why and I know this is getting too in the deep weeds of like online discourse but I think this is why we see so much manosphere content being obsessed with women's body counts so just think about it this way these guys it is now 2025 so since since the 2000s because you could look at porn on your laptop you know it didn't need to be a cell phone and so all these guys have habituated their minds to believing this is how girls act like this is how they act with sex they're doing all these men you know and that is what has been impregnated into their minds since they were eight nine years old and they started you know looking at this stuff so that's why they're all like oh you have so many bodies you're disgusting and that's why they're like like just like oh a virgin you know is like you're not gonna be like this girl that I I believe exists because that's the other thing when they're looking at stuff like OnlyFans and they're looking at you know porn it is an endless a seemingly endless variety to where you think this is every woman I've just I have looked at every woman on the planet so like every woman is doing this and I think that that is why you know these guys have like so what you were asking about like not sexualizing women and all of that stuff I think it's just like uh they they end up hating women instead you know they're they're like all they want to do is sexualize us but then they're being told like that's inappropriate and that's why they're so like angry about me too and I'm just gonna get I can't go near a woman because what I would do would be inappropriate

they're being told like that's inappropriate and that's why they're so like angry about me too and I'm just gonna get I can't go near a woman because what I would do would be inappropriate because everything they saw and learned was inappropriate yeah not how to actually act they have been watching you know a a a sister screw her step brother because you know he he was lying naked on his bed and she just pushed the door open like yeah like yeah and and I do think um uh I'm sorry I get this so heated about this but I I do think that um this is also why they they can't connect because they see that it's real people like they don't learn like this is literally the WWE you know like you need to think about this is fake this is fake reactions this is fake activities you know like she does not like what is happening to her you know like these videos of women just being like slammed on concrete and like men coming at all angles you know and all this stuff like there's so much horrible stuff and she's coming off like she likes it but they don't realize it's acting yeah because it's really happening you know yeah and so it's not like a green screen or something and I think it has warped them way more than we dare to admit and I get very frustrated listening to podcasts that often talk about um young girls getting affected by Instagram you know like all all these you know social media is just hurting young girls and we're not addressing how this is affecting boys yeah and I I truly believe in a lot of ways this is why like you know girls are pulling ahead they don't have this interest like they haven't been lost in the sauce you know like which like I said I do believe this has a lot to do with boys mojo you know for them wanting to get

pulling ahead they don't have this interest like they haven't been lost in the sauce you know like which like I said I do believe this has a lot to do with boys mojo you know for them wanting to get out of the house and pursue a woman pursue a good job all of that stuff it's always been because of sex it's always been this is why I want to get a fast car this is why I want to make a lot of money you know but but I think it's been so it's been for it's been for sex it's been for I want to get that a woman I want to get a girlfriend I want to get a wife I feel like that's been more of an end game more of a relationship tied to it like you're like I I don't know I could be wrong but I feel like it wasn't just to to fuck multiple multiple multiple women choke multiple women you know have anal with multiple women I feel like at least back when we were growing up it was yeah when you're younger dating girls or getting girls but then eventually even those men had the end game of girlfriend wife you know and I do think it was maybe I hate to say this they were just raised a little bit better you know like if you think about how our silent gen and boomer parents were they're like they always had the threat of pregnancy right so we were raised even even though we had access to birth control we had access to abortion we didn't really like I I couldn't just go I lived in the woods I couldn't just go find a gynecologist and I definitely did not know who it would be some witch you know a hill who would give me an abortion so I didn't know and and and also we were raised very religious too so I was I was terrified like I had sex for the first time when I was 17 and I swear to god I had every method of contraception contraception like shoved up there I had

very religious too so I was I was terrified like I had sex for the first time when I was 17 and I swear to god I had every method of contraception contraception like shoved up there I had condoms I had a sponge I had spermicidal jelly like I said at all I was like that was a chemical soup you're like I was so terrified for round two you know joking very funny you know peace on you when we're done but I the shock though I yeah because you go from even you know with your ex-husband you know it's probably more traditional oh for experience and then you get out there and it's like and I'm sure he treated you respectfully right in your marriage right so in that at least in there that area so then you get out there and you have these men coming to you so aggressively because they've been able to have access to all this shit it had to have been I mean you had to have been like well it sounds like you were worrying with okay um I just don't know and so I'm gonna do this because this is how it's supposed to be and I'm sure it's fine everything's fine I'm sure it's fine but also the other part of you is probably like what the fuck what the fuck is going on and so how do you how do you balance that how do you find any um like any way to go with that how what did you do with that I I went along with a lot of it because a lot of it happened it happened and then I would the next day or the later that night be like what the fuck was that because it was just happening to me you know and I was like I had already said like you know like oh like okay you know like we're gonna sleep together or whatever and then everything would just unfold you know yeah and it would just get weird yeah and then shit got weird and um the same guy like after something

we're gonna sleep together or whatever and then everything would just unfold you know yeah and it would just get weird yeah and then shit got weird and um the same guy like after something would happen would you cut it off then and be like okay no or would you give him a chance because you're like well maybe this is how it's supposed to be yeah I would oftentimes I would tell them like no you know after I'd be like I didn't like that or whatever but I was I was having a time I was yeah I was uh I was being uh I was doing all the things I didn't do when I was younger yeah like yeah they're they're every man in Michigan that you know they there are six degrees of Kevin Bacon away from having fucked me hey it's amazing but really did see what was going on out there I sure did like I said I love nothing more than making out yeah you know like all all the things and so I was like let's go have fun you know and I yeah I had just it was like I had sprung out of jail because I had also been like uh you know I didn't have my kids half the time yeah so I joined a band I was doing improv I was like dating like it was my job you know like one year one year I went on like I had a spreadsheet I went on like 72 first dates like yeah like yeah and and like obviously didn't hook up with 72 guys you know um but uh yeah so in that in that time because now dating is so different like it's coffee dates and it's splitting the bill or there's this whole like the young some of the young men are like if I pay then she should come home with me and there's all this stuff going on back then was it so fairly traditional like where the guy took you out and he paid and it wasn't as complicated or was it something to get away I really don't know

there's all this stuff going on back then was it so fairly traditional like where the guy took you out and he paid and it wasn't as complicated or was it something to get away I really don't know where this whole notion of um women feeling like if a guy pays for your dinner that you're supposed to sleep with them yeah like I honestly don't know where that's coming from. I think the baby came from some of those um I don't know what they're called but those podcasts with the men you were talking about the manosphere yeah I think I feel I don't know so just to be clear I don't know but I think I feel like it came out of that a little bit you know because it's new and I don't have a suggestion. Yeah it's like the high value man concept of well it's it's weird it's this weird flip of I should also be treated the same way men treat women and you take me out and you open the door for me and it's I don't understand these men that want to be treated like women like which don't like there should be pride in acting like a man and being in your masculine and letting her be near feminine but not an impressive weird way just in like a normal man-woman respect enjoyable way. The amount of young couples I have seen at the gas station where the woman is out of the car pumping the gas and he's just sitting there like a passenger princess I want to toss a match like burn this whole place down like get out and pump or gas. It's a fast I don't get it it's fascinating though because you do see that where women work and men stay home and play video games and the women take them right or they get out and they pump the gas and the dude's just sitting there right I think of them they're fucking losers to me oh they're losers I'd be mad at my daughters

them right or they get out and they pump the gas and the dude's just sitting there right I think of them they're fucking losers to me oh they're losers I'd be mad at my daughters that was going on I would be real pissed. You're not talking about though like if it was a situation where she's the bread winner and he's choosing to be a stay-at-home dad he's awesome at it. He worked it out he's dad who stays home with kids and all that. You're talking about the guy that's just sitting playing video games and letting her do everything. Yeah that's a major problem. Yeah that's a major problem. Yeah so I don't know I don't I don't understand this at all and I and I always say it's up to the girls you got to stop you got to stop letting them and then people get mad at me why is it always up to the girls I'm sorry they're these men are going to take what they're being allowed to take they're not going to stop so it's up to the girls. It's 100% up to the girls. That's what I say that nicely. No it is because you let people treat you however you're going to let people treat you. I mean I can take advantage of you if you don't let that happen. Parents need to raise their sons to do better so as a mother I you know I don't open the door. There's plenty of boys out here though. There girls have to say nope. Even my 15 year old he I stand he get every I will not touch groceries I don't touch the door and the reason I do this is because I'm because I'm like I'm the queen it's because I want them to treat their future partner that way. Yeah I'm trying to raise a man who treats the does those special things for her because that's important in a relationship. I think yeah my daughters like I said they're 21 and 22 and my youngest she's been with her boyfriend

the does those special things for her because that's important in a relationship. I think yeah my daughters like I said they're 21 and 22 and my youngest she's been with her boyfriend since high school and and he's a great kid and you know always like even will get out of the car go around open her car door you know like all of that stuff always has he's awesome and then my my oldest she's you know dating sometimes and whatever and we we've talked about everything all of this stuff and you know I think a lot of young women are always at risk of gaslighting themselves like you were saying earlier like you're like okay I think I saw this like she was just dating this boy for like a little while um just a couple of months but like on the first date he like didn't you know um walk her to her door you know and all of that stuff and she was just like oh he's just he's only 22 too so maybe he he has to learn you know like what I like and all this stuff and I was like okay let's see how that goes and then fast forward a couple months she's like absolutely not why did you why didn't you stop me in my tracks I was like I can't you know I'm gonna tell you what I'm gonna tell you but if by accident he's gonna end up being my son-in-law I can't just like shit on the kids yeah on the entire time it's so true yeah you you do kind of have to learn and I do think the hard part is like you know how you feel you know how as a as a woman you know how you were raised you know how you saw your dad act or whatever and then you're you want to have a boyfriend you know you're you you're horny and young and you know and you want to get married someday and all this stuff and so you just forgive a bunch of behavior that you shouldn't I was so guilty of that oh my god

you you're horny and young and you know and you want to get married someday and all this stuff and so you just forgive a bunch of behavior that you shouldn't I was so guilty of that oh my god there were so many things in my life that I could have been like oh hell no you know but then you know I've learned my lesson now like now fast forward because I got married again after my uh my first marriage and then I'm divorced from him too and I I've not dated since and I won't like it's been like four and a half five years or something like that and I you will not catch me on an app you will not catch me on a date like but you're just done yeah yeah I feel and my family gives me a hard time um because they're like oh well you know don't close off your heart like my mom is such like a fantasist like she's just like whatever you know maybe god god has somebody for you and I'm like mom like I can't tell her I've already fucked the planet well at least all of Michigan and and so I'm like how many more men am I supposed to entertain on earth like I can't I can't and uh so yeah how long have you been done done for like uh since I broke up with my last husband uh like five years so when did you okay wait I want to go back real quick when what did you do in a band you said you joined a band I was a singer so could you always sing was that part of your theater well remember remember I couldn't because I had I had like the nose but but I could hear and so I played the french horn like I said for eight years and um you have to you have to be able to like sing through the french horn to play the french horn like it's a specific it's a specific thing um different than like other instruments where you just like press the the keys down and you make a sound like

the french horn to play the french horn like it's a specific it's a specific thing um different than like other instruments where you just like press the the keys down and you make a sound like for the french horn you have to like you only have like you only use like two keys so you're actually using your voice when you play the french horn your voice it's like you have to hear that you're in tune and you're kind of making the sound also it's hard to explain um and and so but you definitely have to it's not like a piano where you tune a piano and then you hit a key and it's the right sound you have to kind of listen to it so I could always like hear you know hear if I was in tune here if I was out of tune and I knew like when I had my my nose issues that I was always just horrible and flat I just couldn't make the right sound yeah and um so after that I challenged myself um and joined the band and was a singer there for a while how'd you get connected with the band like it was it was I started at um taking voice lessons and so it was like a connection through the the voice lesson was this after your divorce yes because I got to do things yeah one of your new things you got you had your new apartment and then you were buying new things so you started picking voice lessons and then through that did you meet people that were starting a band um yeah it was all part of the school so it was at the school and they had they had other lessons there they had other so it was all girls in my band and they had lessons you know for bass and guitar and drums and all of that stuff so it all got banned yeah yeah and it was really fun and um but there it did get to with everything even with improv and stuff my uh my career overtook like I had to travel too

of that stuff so it all got banned yeah yeah and it was really fun and um but there it did get to with everything even with improv and stuff my uh my career overtook like I had to travel too much I had to get up too early you know all kind of being an adult right yeah yeah were you doing the improv along with the band or was that like separate I did the improv after I was after the band I was like I gotta do something else you know so so you're doing the band you're doing improv you're traveling for work um you're dating in this weird world yep how long did you date in this world until you met your second husband um five years okay it was a one year dates yes yeah I met him on match okay the week after I turned 40 um and uh then we we've got married we flamed out real fast like we should have never gotten married but at the time I was like um I I definitely we wanted to live together but I wasn't going to live with a boyfriend considering we both had kids right and I was like we need to be a family you know and again like very like romanticized ideas you know but we're going to be a step family I'm going to be a stepmom and all of this stuff and um yeah he was my best friend like he was definitely we were we were each other's best friend but he it was not it was an impossible situation like there was just too much like uh partying you know and he like this is when edibles and stuff became legal in Michigan and like I truly believe like they're just too strong they're scrambling people's brains you know and I think he like and he was undiagnosed ADHD like all sorts right it's not good to mix that no yeah how long did you guys when did you get married like how long from the time you started dating to when you got married three years oh okay that's a

all sorts right it's not good to mix that no yeah how long did you guys when did you get married like how long from the time you started dating to when you got married three years oh okay that's a long time and then how long were you married five okay so you also also Covid happened and that really made everything yeah because then you're all together that when that happened how do you co-parent oh my god it was that was always that was such a bad time yeah because it was like um I never thought about that how did people co-parent during Covid so we had times where we ended up having everybody all at once like because like if the step kids their mom got Covid they weren't allowed to go back there for you know six weeks or however long it was and um that really was a lot of the nails in the coffin you know it was during that time um it was just a very stressful time and then I also realized that my um my stepson was kind of going to be a failure to launch type of situation and I hate this is this is gonna make me sound bad but I just couldn't I was like I can't have this 20 something year old in my house that I didn't raise you know like there's there's something um that I was just like I can't I can't and so it just all kind of fell apart really um yeah I think I was just gonna say Covid's a good test right it's either it either works or it does and that helped right that's or you know expedite that decision I guess okay listeners your eyes are not deceiving you we are still with MJ Eldridge but this is the next day we had a time stop and so it's kind of a part one and now you're in part two so I am wearing different clothes MJ is in different clothes Brian is in the same uh outfit he wears pretty much every episode yeah not the same

it's kind of a part one and now you're in part two so I am wearing different clothes MJ is in different clothes Brian is in the same uh outfit he wears pretty much every episode yeah not the same exact I have changed and showered he has he has but if you go by Brian you'll never know which episode it is so we are in kind of part two so we're back with MJ welcome back yeah it's good to be back well I feel lucky we get two days with you so where we left off was Covid hit and things kind of went a little bit downhill with your second husband um you guys got divorced and then what happened then what with your life well okay so we we split up like we tried at first to do like the uh together living apart type of situation now ultimately that that just didn't work but it took us a while to get divorced because again I'm the woman I have to do it and during that time was um I I decided that I should go move back east right because I grew up here and my whole family is here my mom's 77 you know and I was like my kids uh were out of the house essentially so my um oldest was uh at going to the University of Michigan my youngest um she was uh graduated high school but she was gonna go live with her dad you know so because I was like I have to take two things actually I had to take advantage of the market and sell our giant house like that was the number one thing that was really driving me because you remember housing was like awesome at the time like all the prices were through the roof um I did not need I had you know myself in this house it was like 4 000 square feet like something stupid and so I decided I should start looking for a job back east so I um found the job with the company that I'm with and I moved back

this house it was like 4 000 square feet like something stupid and so I decided I should start looking for a job back east so I um found the job with the company that I'm with and I moved back east my um my oldest when she was off from college she would come out here and um stay here and uh work out here and whatever but yeah so that was in like um 2022 yes by the time you moved were you guys done and divorced no no no you know this is funny so um it took a while like for me to file the paperwork you know and all that stuff because you know I'm moving and whatever and then I finally got around to doing it and then um you know the court date got said it was uncut like no contests we didn't have kids or whatever together and so um so so then when it was finally final I was in Arizona for work and um I had to get a late check out because like all the courts would do everything on zoom you know because of COVID and so um I'm like sitting there waiting for the judge and then my ex-husband showed up it was like his proudest proudest moment I swear to god he was on face like doing it on facetime or whatever on his phone and he was sitting on a jet ski like he's outside on a jet ski getting divorced on the phone and then and then me I'm in this hotel room and I'd asked for a late check out but they're like during the thing that's like housekeeping I was keeping like banging on the door I'm like if this is an emblematic of my entire life with this guy that here I am stressed out working you know sitting in a hotel room and he's just like on a jet ski oh my gosh well I saw you you were like and this is why and this is this is it were you like hold on I'm getting divorced I'll be out into you out it was actually so fast I

a jet ski oh my gosh well I saw you you were like and this is why and this is this is it were you like hold on I'm getting divorced I'll be out into you out it was actually so fast I want to say it was like seven minutes or something it was so fast so had you been working in Michigan at that same company where you had done the inventions no no so I had left home medics um 2014 2015 and then I started doing startups so it was interesting my my time at home medics was all coinciding with the crash right so like um and most of our uh clients like a lot of our customers were like remember old businesses like linens and things and bed bath and beyond you know and all these places start like linens and things closed and then bed bath and beyond started really struggling like everybody started struggling so um my company started truly struggling and because I was like a junior person they kept they were firing all of the guys who made a lot of money you know like so like all the the managers and all of that stuff so slowly over time I got to learn like every single aspect of the business because I had to do all the jobs you know so I'm making products but then I'm also learning about um all of the the logistics and the shipping and you know like and you know working directly with the customers and all of that stuff so uh when I left there I started working with startups and so now I'm on my my fourth startup that I'm I'm working with now because I can like I can I can take a startup like teach them how to set up all of their um all of their operations all of their product development all of their you know logistics their sales like all of that stuff because I had to learn because of the crash you know like I I lucked out it was it was rough at the time because

you know logistics their sales like all of that stuff because I had to learn because of the crash you know like I I lucked out it was it was rough at the time because we had two major rounds of layoffs that were very devastating because you have a lot of survivor guilt you know yeah your friends going too right yeah yeah like the first round my boss um actually he got fired and then they hired him like temporarily to come back and teach me how to do his job oh my gosh how awkward yeah yeah but I think he works there again like I've heard that he went back there so um it it's such a unique place and like that world of making products and stuff is like it's just a very unique microcosm and there's not a lot of places you know that yeah that you can really do that so on that though um not that you're underselling it but I think what what you're describing too is the international supply chain so you probably is it kind of like the you design it in the US go to China probably Shenzhen and or something like that and get it made and sourced then you've got to deal with the international logistics of it coming over on boats and figuring out the timing and then distributing it throughout all these retailers right yeah and that and you so you know that and you're now you're helping startups do that yep yep that's cool that's it in a nutshell I've I've been to Shenzhen many many times yeah but um but yeah like I've been all over China actually um but because it is interesting like they're all where everything is made is very regional you know so it's like Shenzhen, Xiaomen are all like the electronics and stuff like that and then you go further up north to like Ningbo and places like that that's where like a lot of

regional you know so it's like Shenzhen, Xiaomen are all like the electronics and stuff like that and then you go further up north to like Ningbo and places like that that's where like a lot of the handicrafts are made and um so like you know like plates and vases and stuff like that and uh so it's just it's crazy what's happening now you know from my point of view and if you've seen me talk about like the tariffs and all this stuff like the level to which people like me who do that but not only like the way we're fucking ourselves is literally remarkable because we we don't make anything like that in the country anymore and um so yeah and you know it's very nerve-wracking because now you know I've built my entire career on making products and all this stuff fortunately I still I have all the tech side because a lot of the products I've made have had apps associated with them so I can still I can do technology you know startups as well but we we need things as people you know yeah we use things every day targeted Walmart full of things yeah Amazon I was I was in I got to go to Shenzhen once I was helping set up a sourcing office there people don't hear don't realize how oriented the Chinese culture and society is there right to make all this happen you don't just it doesn't just appear they've got a whole world focused on I don't know I guess it's it's kind of a pull-through system in some ways right you figure it out then you pull it rather than just design stuff or or dumps product and push it so it is one of the pull right like so we um we taught them we taught we yeah so we it was a wild time to even have seen China go from you know when I started going over there in like 2020 until like you know Covid like shut us down in like 20 2010 to

taught we yeah so we it was a wild time to even have seen China go from you know when I started going over there in like 2020 until like you know Covid like shut us down in like 20 2010 to 2020 so in 10 years time to see how society had changed in China just because of our western money that we are pouring into all of these you know electronics places and everything like that and like just think about like the infrastructure that Apple created with all of their Apple products and that's just a small it's a big portion but it's small relative to every other you know uh electronics company that makes in China it's small people and it is it is very interesting that I think a lot of people don't realize that yeah okay in the US we make these things we design them and everything but then like when you go to another country whether it's like China, South Korea, India, Taiwan, any other place like yeah you can say this is my design make this but you have to also kind of teach them like not how to make it because you'll you you know source a factory that has capability like you see that they've made something similar okay like we know you make speakers great do you make speakers that have bluetooth though because if not I need to find somebody who makes bluetooth you know so uh and they have this raw capability but then you have to teach them um about the aesthetic that you need that will translate to the US market and they've gotten a lot better at that like years ago they you could tell something that was like a straight Chinese product you know that didn't have that like American sauce on it and um and we're always putting the American sauce on things you know yeah and the packaging and like what the products are called all of that

like American sauce on it and um and we're always putting the American sauce on things you know yeah and the packaging and like what the products are called all of that stuff yeah um yeah so you know I've noticed it's gotten better even on Amazon the way they're describing things and because you I right away you know as a consumer you if the description wasn't you could tell you like it was English instead of full-blown English everything has gotten more Americanized which is smart marketing wise so well it's because there's a whole subculture of people like me who worked explicitly with Chinese makers who want to sell into the American market so you'll take somebody like me who has my skill set and you'll hire me to work with straight with the factory to be like you know what no you should use these colorways instead this is what what's popular right now you should you know you call it this write this on the box you know all sorts of stuff like that so they've gotten hip to that and they use people like me to sell on Amazon and write the copy and stuff like that so for the startups are you working with startups in America or startups and okay so and those companies hire you as a consultant basically as a liaison between the China and their company so I have always been hired you know full-time like permanent right I I I do some consultant work on the side um but I I'm at my current company I'm the head of operations and product development and then over the years I kind of have a team of people who go with me you know each place that I go where you know I have um a guy who does all my sourcing and engineering work and you know he works directly with the our suppliers on the China side we have somebody in China who is um a Chinese

you know I have um a guy who does all my sourcing and engineering work and you know he works directly with the our suppliers on the China side we have somebody in China who is um a Chinese national who will go visit the factories we we've had to um since Covid China was closed down way longer than everyone else so since Covid we've really just developed a system where we don't even have to go anymore because we have um we have good people with boots on the ground over there and um that's what I've been doing and it's you know it's not necessarily um it's not a glamorous ideal life like it's very stressful working with startups um but I my family thinks I'm crazy they're like how do you not have like some stable job I'm like what is a stable job you know yeah you know my mom my mom is like I don't know I think she thinks I should have like a pension somewhere I'm like well I don't maybe government workers still but other than that those are out the window I think maybe the railroad workers still get them because he has a cousin that works for the railroad in Jersey I think they maybe the longshoreman maybe police and firemen I think there's still some yeah yeah the idea of a pension it's not even like millennials and Gen Z never would even think of that no they probably most of it to 401ks yes you know that kind of stuff yeah yeah yeah the pension yeah it's so funny my my daughter was here a couple of weeks ago and we were having dinner with my mom and we were talking about my mom was like the last person at the bank where she worked to get a pension and I looked at Aspen and I was like do you know what that is and she was so mad that I said that was like but I I feel like why would you know yeah that's true she's like I went to school I was like so

know what that is and she was so mad that I said that was like but I I feel like why would you know yeah that's true she's like I went to school I was like so they teach you about ancient history that's a big class mom I have two top I have two questions I'm gonna forget so don't forget yours but so when someone hires you they're kind of hiring you and your team then everyone moves together like an amoeba but yeah a little bit so like the the people who I reach out to like I they're not like my team that I pay you know but it's like this group of people who have followed me around from place to place to place that I always know that I can be like hey this is our need do you want to jump in do you want to bid on this project you know whatever and my one guy we've been working together for like 15 years now so and he and we hardly ever like we talk on text we talk on email we never talk on it's the best relationship I've ever had I'm not gonna lie you might be on the phone thanks exactly how involved I want to be with a man yeah that's probably priceless and part of your success too is that you have people you can trust and that you've completely vetted and has been on you know yeah it's gotten to the point with him like he's a little bit older I want to say he's he's probably like 60 now and I'm like dude like if he doesn't text me back like in a day I'm like I need to know what our death plan is for you like I need to tell like if something happens to you if you get hit by a bus like who am I calling and and he's like don't worry I told my wife she's gonna contact you and I was like okay and he's in China no no no he's here he's here now he was stuck he was so he married a Chinese woman and he was in China for years and he essentially got stuck

contact you and I was like okay and he's in China no no no he's here he's here now he was stuck he was so he married a Chinese woman and he was in China for years and he essentially got stuck there during COVID like where he would love to like move out but they and he would tell me and he would be like don't like say like he would be nervous to text it to me like because you know the government and stuff and um but they were so strict like they live in a high rise there's tons of high rises over there and their whole high rise if one person got a whole high rise locked down nobody can get out and then they were also like scanning people the minute you walked in and if you had a fever you had to go leave and get quarantined someplace else you couldn't even go home like it was very very very hardcore yeah I saw some stuff during that time on TikTok like people would kind of get some videos out and it it definitely it was a totally different world yeah things happened here too but China well they have leveled up on that and they have apps on their phones and if you've been exposed or near exposure you would get kind of not a social score but you'd get kind of the red green yellow type of thing yeah I know someone who had that and they weren't directly exposed but they were at the mall the day someone else was exposed or showed up so now you're within the blast radius even though you might have been there three hours later because they're tracking everybody right they know where everybody's going they're watching everybody's phones it's a trip but yeah but that's kind of going on what was your question though I interrupted you no it's cool I've kind of probably two questions one is um like I say I've been there and I'm there as a guy

but yeah but that's kind of going on what was your question though I interrupted you no it's cool I've kind of probably two questions one is um like I say I've been there and I'm there as a guy I'm six two kind of big um as a woman go in there how was that to navigate you know for me in Shenzhen it's probably the only spot I've ever been to where as we're driving I'm looking I couldn't watch because it was crazy I was like we're gonna die we're gonna get in the cab it was just like not watching but it's definitely a male-dominated society right you know how how are you interacting with that is you kind of further up you got I would go I would be there by myself first of all I don't speak Chinese second of all and I this is gonna sound crazy um I found it to be very relaxing to just like first of all I found it relaxing because like not understanding the language it is kind of like being in a white noise machine like you can't even like you're just calm you know and and relaxing and I know that sounds crazy because I know what you mean about driving around there and all of that stuff and I was just like look at all this I feel it always I would always say I felt like I'm unstuck on earth like I'm unstuck in the universe where it's like do my after two weeks I'm like do my kids even exist you know like you feel like you're in this other like alternate universe in a lot of ways where everything because I would have I would always have a driver right that I would get hired before I would go there so that was always good and the drivers could always speak English very well and whatever and I would feel safe with them and then um but I would be you know at on a factory floor for 12 hours straight it's freaking exhausting and

could always speak English very well and whatever and I would feel safe with them and then um but I would be you know at on a factory floor for 12 hours straight it's freaking exhausting and I would often say that um I'm very claustrophobic right and so um but I was fine doing elevators and stuff in China because they everything is taken care of more and like there's it's all pretty cool yeah people and people have jobs that are like the smallest job but it's a job like somebody's own job there'll be one lady whose job is to just sweep like a 10 by 10 area and that's all she's doing and so but the other thing of it is is that I think the job itself was so exhausting and I was so exhausted all the time that there was no way I could feel anxiety like I was just burned out you know and um but then there were times that I had like really good times like um this one guy Greg who I I as part of my my posse that comes around with me um I met him up there and he's he's an American and um Xiaomen is actually a beautiful place like Xiaomen is um down like towards Taiwan like you could see Taiwan across the um water and um we were down in Xiaomen and they have all these outdoor bars and it's like it's like a resort-ish area and um and so they we went and this is it's so crazy because we went on this like these rides in the park in the night and I was like we could just it was like one of those big shot things that shoot you up you know yeah slowly come down and we were stuck up there for like half an hour and I was like is it broken are we just gonna the sun's gonna come up and just burn my face off you know in the morning and what it was just that the guy uh the guy running the ride wanted to give us a good experience of

sun's gonna come up and just burn my face off you know in the morning and what it was just that the guy uh the guy running the ride wanted to give us a good experience of like sitting up there for a long time and looking around but we honestly thought that we were just trapped but okay since you guys are like la la la meanwhile you're having an anxiety attack you're like broken yeah and America is broken because next right next right next right there's no like going up above so yeah yeah yeah but I will say so I'm tall I'm five seven you know I have this big hair and whatever so I always just felt like a like a monster anyway like whether I'm in Taiwan or China I'm just like because the ladies there are so small like yeah they're you have like that's why when people order clothes you know off of xian or whatever you have to get like they need to come up with just American sizes because like their extra large is like I don't know our extra small okay I have to real quick say something so my so Brian because his dad's from West Virginia and he's got family from West Virginia and he spent summers in West Virginia he has West Virginia in him right he's a huge Billy Strings fan I don't know if you know who that is but it's like he's he's like he's awesome jam band bluegrass but so he has a part to him that's very West Virginia where this is going so he he loves overalls so he'll wear like denim around the house not he's not allowed to go out so allowed to go out not even in the front after they're black he has black he has a tan her he has stripes yeah and so for his birthday my daughter she texted me first and said is it okay if I get him overall shorts and I'm like fine he ordered extra large off Amazon it's it's a

he has stripes yeah and so for his birthday my daughter she texted me first and said is it okay if I get him overall shorts and I'm like fine he ordered extra large off Amazon it's it's a like a woman's small like we're dying he's like I can put these on but part of me is going to be hanging out of them that's reminded me like literally I don't know if I could fit into them I'm returning them this week I feel like that was a product that got pushed and not pulled yes that is the sizing error there is like and they have a man on there where I'm like it they don't look like that picked it this is not this is didn't match up so that was one of those areas that got through and it's not accurate they went by piney sizing or whatever yeah yeah and I I will say this like I I also love the food um like back when I first started going a lot of the um so I would go with like other people when I first started going and a lot of the Americans were scandalized by the food you know they're like I can't eat and they would be the ones that the you know anybody from the factories would be like oh do you want to find a KFC they always could find a KFC or like a McDonald's but me I'll eat I'll eat anything and I love it and I I'm like yeah I'll eat that fish's eyeball you know like I'm here I might as well you know why am I doing it uh I don't really like the eyeballs um but and like chicken feet I had chicken feet did you like it I it's a texture thing for me like yeah me too so the the Chinese will eat what I consider to be like snot texture they're like a lot of their food is like uh salty snotty like that type and which is gross but that's that's a big texture that they enjoy and that's like the the chicken feet the sauce on the chicken feet

of their food is like uh salty snotty like that type and which is gross but that's that's a big texture that they enjoy and that's like the the chicken feet the sauce on the chicken feet is always really good but the feet themselves are like very that gelatinous you know yeah I didn't like it and it actually it raises another question so when you're there because you know we were out to dinner had this big round table there's a bunch of us and I think it's the lazy susan thing that's been that's our old gen x term yeah yeah so that thing's rolling around and here comes the chicken feet and I'm like all right I don't want to offend anybody try this then I'm like you know and I finished it and they're like you like it I'm like not really and they so we spun it and they'd love it yeah you went in on it it's a culture thing though right that's the thing that's what they're like yeah yeah there's no waste probably no waste whatsoever yeah you eat it all and I also really like um their style of eating they eat the same foods breakfast lunch and dinner there's not like breakfast food and like a sandwich for lunch and then a dinner food it's the same stuff and I love like all of it I love congee I love dumplings I love it's so much better than I don't like American Chinese food because it's completely different um but yeah I so are there like how when we breakfast at a certain time and lunch and dinner do they also have similar timings for their meals yeah yeah they they definitely do like they're they're still like going to get lunch you know in the middle of the day leave the factory whatever and go out to lunch and I'll say it's like a little bit nicer at least the way we were treated um you got you sit down and have lunch

know in the middle of the day leave the factory whatever and go out to lunch and I'll say it's like a little bit nicer at least the way we were treated um you got you sit down and have lunch you know it's not just like let's sit in a conference room and I'll shove a sandwich and have a working lunch like right yeah there's a lot about like American work culture that I do not care for and like a working lunch is one of them like yeah yeah eat and peace or I don't want to eat at all like yeah look at your powerpoint Jared what I noticed though is they would and this is more office work as opposed to factory but they would the day would start later which was awesome so instead of being in at eight it's like let's meet tomorrow at nine or ten and then to your point at some point you go to lunch you go and you sit down and it goes on for a little while it does it does it then but then they work later so they may go from like nine to nine something like that right and then they have the family time but they start later they work later and longer yeah but it's I don't know it's different it's a little more I'll say relaxed but maybe it isn't I'm but if they're working till nine so that they not if they have young children are they not seeing their kids and stuff like they are but it felt it my impression was it the whole culture was work was later it started later it ended later it was elongated like school starts later then I felt like it I don't know but yeah I can't really say about I didn't come across a lot of kids in the factories I know that's ironic right because everybody says it's nothing what kids yeah it's it's not kids at least it wasn't by the time I started you know going there because uh a lot of American retailers put a end to

right because everybody says it's nothing what kids yeah it's it's not kids at least it wasn't by the time I started you know going there because uh a lot of American retailers put a end to that because they would do factory audits and all of that stuff and we're like they would say to his suppliers like me like we're not going to buy from you unless your factories can pass these audits and the audits were very strict about you know the age of the workers and and also like um there's I'm not going to use the right terminology but basically there's always this risk of like indentured servitude type of practices happening especially like in Taiwan and stuff where like the some factories will use like um people from Cambodia or Vietnam or whatever as like oh you work off this to become a citizen or earn your housing or whatever and those practices are obviously very frowned upon and so the audits from you know Target um Disney honestly like they a lot of the factories always wanted to be like we're approved by Disney that was like a big um a big thing and um yeah and the Home Depots and all that stuff they they really improved the working conditions in a lot of ways like I'm not glorifying I'm not saying it's great but um it's not you know children like it's not forced labor no at least not in like the the big brands the big brands and where I would go like on the further west I'm sure there's lots of bad practices still happening did you find that is there pride in are they uh do they find pride in what they're making to sell in America like are they really wanting it to meet the standards and like you said have that American sauce are they trying to do they want to get it just right and are they oh yeah oh yeah like

America like are they really wanting it to meet the standards and like you said have that American sauce are they trying to do they want to get it just right and are they oh yeah oh yeah like they'll they'll work they will work tirelessly to make sure that you that they get it right because it's so competitive that like they know like even when they're pricing something out for you that like five cents off another factory will steal that business right so they're they're super competitive with each other and they want the business they want to retain the business um and so they will they will keep the quality up and and as you can see I think a lot of people don't fully realize um how long you haven't really bought anything made in America you know like I I think people there's so many people who comment on my videos if I talk about the tariffs and all this stuff and they'll just say just buy American I'm like you haven't bought anything made in America since like 1998 yeah you literally have not even like your car that's made in the USA half of it's coming from someplace else like even even if you buy soap at the farmer's market like the ribbon that they put on it is from China you know like where we're we're toast on that front and so a lot of people will still say well oh my god it's like poor quality it's not it's everything you have because everything you have junk like I I don't think it is you know so right well it's gotten a lot better you know yeah because we kept working with it because it was always worth it for us the the bottom line is that they have so a lot of people I don't think realize this either that the um the labor force in China is also migrant workers a lot of times they're just still Chinese

the bottom line is that they have so a lot of people I don't think realize this either that the um the labor force in China is also migrant workers a lot of times they're just still Chinese they're just migrating from the country site China's a big place and they're migrating from the country and going to the city to work and a lot of them now are doing really well so when Chinese New Year's happens and you know they get three weeks off and they go back to their families like 40 50 don't come back anymore like so they're they're actually having a labor shortage because they're able to do really well working in the factories and then they go back and they don't come back and they can just live off of what they made and then go and then travel again and it's wow it's very similar to migrant workers here in the United States you know coming up to like be day laborers or you know work in a field or whatever it's a very similar culture except they're just all still Chinese yeah yeah that makes sense so when you were there you never felt um to Brian's this is a piggyback off your question you never felt like how us how women in America in general like I don't feel comfortable running at night alone I'm on alert like that feeling of you could be hurt by a man at any time doing anything walking to your car in the parking lot where I'm always on high alert I have my daughter always on high alert all that stuff and I think that's fairly common for women in America did you not feel that at all over there honestly I think because I I feel like because like I said I'm five seven which is like all for China for China yeah and I felt like I could take any guy like and and they're they're not they they don't do stuff they don't like cat call you they you

five seven which is like all for China for China yeah and I felt like I could take any guy like and and they're they're not they they don't do stuff they don't like cat call you they you know they don't have guns like they're like it's just it's not even more civilized believe it or not yeah it just it just is and largely like this one time um I had landed in Shanghai and the Shanghai airport's really cool by the way but there I had to funnel out through this area where there was a like green line for one set of taxis that would take you to one completely different region and a red line for another set of taxis that would take you to a completely different region and I just guessed I was like well rolling the dice let's see when I just got in the taxi line got in with this guy this guy couldn't speak any English you know and then we I had to call the hotel and whatever but most of the time I would say if they weren't being nice to me they were just mad at me like frustrated with me because they're like god this dumb broad like this useless American is in my cab and now my day sucks and I honestly feel like yeah I was just largely ignored and I like that what is the general vibe towards Americans well if I will say this um if you're just a a business person coming in to do business and um and essentially bringing them money good very nice everybody's happy to see you and uh and it's very good but according to my you know co-worker you know who are my partner who live there they can be extremely racist towards Americans because if you think about it if you think about it in um just in terms of uh general like shortages or whatever they have a shit ton of people in China they want Chinese people to have the jobs not not white

you think about it in um just in terms of uh general like shortages or whatever they have a shit ton of people in China they want Chinese people to have the jobs not not white people you know coming in and um because they have a lot of people to support and a lot of mouths to feed and all of that stuff so he he did uh experience quite a bit of of racism like he was he wasn't able to work that's what was his role because that's what feels role dependent so he um he he did sourcing right so he would work with me but um he married a Chinese woman and his role was being stay-at-home dad while he was there yeah because he wasn't able to so he wasn't taking a job really from but they wouldn't have known that he couldn't he couldn't yeah they were treating him like he was but he wasn't he was one of the ones that he's just taking care of the kids right yeah and this is what I know from him I you know I never experienced anything myself I know that there are people who are uh who have you know migrated to China like Americans um who live there and and whatever I do think it's a little bit different in like the city centers you know like if you live in Shanghai there's a lot of international people always walking around Shanghai so yeah I think it might be different in different areas yeah so the startups that you work with are they all selling stuff is that kind of just to simplify it I know I'm simplified it but is that as someone who knows nothing about what that industry or anything is that the concept behind the startups you work with so I've done all different ones so uh the first startup I was with we were doing vitamins um and so I did vitamins for a while then I had my own startup for like half a minute where I was making um these that

different ones so uh the first startup I was with we were doing vitamins um and so I did vitamins for a while then I had my own startup for like half a minute where I was making um these that never went anywhere but I counted because it was part of my journey but I had made uh earbuds that were uh also earrings that you could just like because uh you know like I uh ear pods like fall out of people's ears all the time so these like look like jewelry and because I have um all my connections they sounded just like air pods like the quality was exactly the same and I did a whole kickstarter and whatever to try to get that going and I just needed too much money like I needed like 250 000 and that was too much money at the time and so great idea though yeah you know it was it was very interesting and enlightening to meet with potential investors because um they were like but this is only for women I'm like yeah tampons are only for women like what are you talking about like women are half the population and they can also be for men who have peer stares you know or honestly people are so integrated into their headphones now people would probably pierce their ears to have them you know like not fall out and and the thing because I made electronics for so long I was so frustrated with the world of electronics like all of electronics are made for men or made with this like bland aesthetic that essentially appeals to nobody yeah I would call it um cool gray six syndrome yeah uh that's a a pantone number that is just like it was determined at the time to be like this will be a fine gray color to make everything so it applies to a man or a woman and I just think there's so much room in electronics to make beautiful electronics that would appeal to women nice

this will be a fine gray color to make everything so it applies to a man or a woman and I just think there's so much room in electronics to make beautiful electronics that would appeal to women nice looking speakers like I have this no shade to the speaker it sounds good but how boring is this thing like it's just like whatever just like it could be cute you know yeah yeah yeah and so um that's my soapbox about electronics but um and then after that I uh I made cosmetics so I worked for a startup in Detroit called um the lip bar and um there now it was that was a really good time I was there for four years I was um I was the it was all women I was the only white woman um and uh it was a very big learning curve for me but we went from essentially a practically a dirt floor uh warehouse in Detroit to like when I first started there we had they had done like four hundred thousand dollars in sales and she got her first million of investment and when I left uh we had done like 10 million and we had grown out to target and walmart and mire and all that yeah so I left that I left that job to move back east and now my current company uh is a sustainability company so we make reusable containers um for college campuses essentially like takeout containers so that is so cool so did you have that job before you went out back to Rhode Island or did you or did you move for that job I I moved for the job um because I you know hey we're trained by our parents you can't quit a job unless you have another job and and despite the story of my life that I'm telling you I am not a rich person I need everybody to know this like you can you can have patents you can have like made products and all this stuff I have still just been working to make

that I'm telling you I am not a rich person I need everybody to know this like you can you can have patents you can have like made products and all this stuff I have still just been working to make white men rich like that's all I've done my whole life so if anybody wants to make me rich like feel free no well going sorry oh no no um so that's why when after I did my startup I purposefully uh worked for Melissa Butler at the lip bar who was a woman of color and I was like I only want to work for women CEOs my my current ceo is a woman and I'm like at least trying to you know are you finding a difference in the way the startup is run between a woman ceo and a male ceo no they're all crazy okay they're all crazy okay on the product front getting a product developed offshore like that in China we could do it anywhere probably but China's it's not just like sending a CAD file over with color choices right yeah what goes on there we and I'll give a little background we had a uh an inventor on as a guest a young he's a millennial right he's a millennial young first millennial like no the youngest millennial yeah he got scammed uh he I'll plug his product he's got a great product it's called chappy and it's a container it's a vacuum sealed container that you put your chapstick in so it doesn't melt in the summer oh that's smart yeah very smart and he made it for uh deodorant for cosmetics for women water bottles but the idea the concept was like a yeti for your chapstick is how he started it yeah you're a super smart kid um I call him a kid he probably wouldn't like that but he is a kid to us right um so how do you how do you do that you you probably do need to have CAD designs right you got to choose the Pantone color or whatever and

probably wouldn't like that but he is a kid to us right um so how do you how do you do that you you probably do need to have CAD designs right you got to choose the Pantone color or whatever and you've got to find a sourcing office or a partner and you've got to probably send them some money how do you do that like without getting scammed like without yeah I mean how would someone do that and I'm really not asking for myself but I think for listeners it's an interesting concept besides hire you and make you rich that's the answer rich for free yeah it's funny I do it I do it for free all the time though like I'm actually working with um somebody off of TikTok like uh who um where we became mutual friends and she wanted to make some merch essentially you know so um and actually not the hell but maybe the pitfalls because I don't want you to give away the secret sauce I do want you to I want something to pay me a lot of money it's so funny I I have told so many people when people find out what I do and then I make products and and whatever and they're they're always like oh I have an idea you know because everybody who's like we used to have a poster that said that anybody who's ever taken a shower has had an idea yeah and um and they're like I have an idea but I don't want to tell you because you're gonna steal it I'm like listen motherfucker you know how hard it is to make products I am not stealing your idea and I will tell anybody my ideas and lots of times I'm just like listen I'm not making it so I want it though so you know yeah yeah like please steal my idea I've proven already how not to get rich at doing this and so so anyway yeah there's there's no secret sauce to to worry about but I will say that um

steal my idea I've proven already how not to get rich at doing this and so so anyway yeah there's there's no secret sauce to to worry about but I will say that um having somebody like me an American who has a Chinese national working for you will help you not get scammed like I there's no there's no secret to that because I can't say go fine like okay you can go on Alibaba as a to start and you can start looking around at um people who are making something similar to what you have in mind like for example the uh the kid that you had on the millennial obviously would start looking for people who are making yeti like products right like and and and say I have this idea and then you have to before you reveal your idea you have to like essentially do like a sourcing list you know figure out their capabilities figure out their location you can do quite a bit you do have to have some background knowledge though if you can't physically go there and even if you do physically go there oftentimes the factories will show you their showroom right but you have to be like no I need a tour I need to go see everybody working I need to make sure the conditions are good and all of that and you really kind of need um somebody who speaks Chinese somebody who's also on the ground who can kind of take you around and that that really helps unfortunately like my my current ceo before I came on board got completely scammed like she gave the fact she did a an initial p.o she placed an order for a bunch of um containers and um she kept being told oh look it's on the water you know here's the building link all of this stuff and then the day it was supposed to show up nothing nothing shows that's what happened to him exactly

kept being told oh look it's on the water you know here's the building link all of this stuff and then the day it was supposed to show up nothing nothing shows that's what happened to him exactly is it really oh my god it's so devastating and there's nothing you can do like there's no recourse no no anything so um there are groups who do what I do I do what I do so if anybody's watching this you know they can email me or whatever and I can help you like I was saying so um the woman who I'm helping right now uh even if you don't it depends on the nature of the product right like so if you have something complicated that has particular dimensions you know that needs cat or whatever obviously you should get some cad made but even if you just have an idea and you and you're like man I we were just working with this one guy who what he did uh which I was like oh we've really advanced he had an idea and um he had uh ai make renderings of it like where back in the day it used to be I would have to give my my cad to somebody who could make me a rendering right like a person this guy just put his design idea into chat gpt and got a photo realistic rendering product yeah I was I was very surprised by that so you can do that and then um um and then what you do is you can take that idea give it to somebody like um my partner that I work with who is able to then make the the cad right because you it's hard to find people who do that that is a that is a big hole in the market I was trying to get my oldest daughter to do this forever because there are people who learn how to do product design but they're always funneled into automotive right so they end up like just doing like automotive cad and stuff like that

because there are people who learn how to do product design but they're always funneled into automotive right so they end up like just doing like automotive cad and stuff like that which does not translate into making cad for a speaker like this you know and so um it's difficult skill to find to find somebody who can make like products but then and the other thing that works often is that even like with um the uh the kid that you were talking to even if like he's like okay so it's like a yeti it keeps it cold he could send them like here's the material you know like here I need it to be you know double walled stainless steel I need it to you know be vacuum sealed I like this finish find something else that it could be a toothbrush that has the finish that you want and that that all helps make the soup to help them make the product and then and then what happens is that you start doing some prototyping back and forth the prototyping is just made out of you know SLA or whatever it won't be made out of the finished material but this is all very expensive you know like I feel sad for him like he he probably lost a bunch of money yeah um because I'm sure they wanted deposits for tooling and they want you know all of that and so um you do need you do need a group that you can trust for sure so do you do consulting like if we have a list listeners that like oh I want to I want to hire MJ to help me do you have the time in your life where you do consulting for people so you do freelance type of stuff I guess okay all the time I I've been doing that for and I I don't know why I'm so lazy like I I should try harder to do stuff but honestly when I I've just um I don't try very hard and um that you know that's why I was saying you know mediocre at

don't know why I'm so lazy like I I should try harder to do stuff but honestly when I I've just um I don't try very hard and um that you know that's why I was saying you know mediocre at best like I only I only try so far and um and so anyway but um yeah I've been consulting now probably for 10 years and I've made a lot I've helped people make products of their own on the on the side and the thing of it is the hard thing about being an inventor being somebody who has ideas and all of that stuff is that it costs a lot of fucking money yeah it really really does like so many people have said to me why don't you just do your own thing and I'm like I need half a million dollars for for the electronics that I would like to do but like though the project that I'm working on now her her project is um relatively low FOB and so that that's the the cost out of the factory and then um the other key part is that the minimum order quantity is low so she only has to order a thousand pieces that makes this a lot more affordable to get into and um and I think that and again this is maybe soap bucket soap box ish but we've had so many people in the United States be able to build little businesses you know whether it is like their own little shop downtown or at the farmer's market or even like a website or an Etsy store or whatever these businesses are going to get so screwed by these tariffs because they just cannot they they cannot the it's just honestly so bad and it's on every single country you know like there's do you say that meaning like they're raw materials because I do know someone who does some silicone uh molding and that's a concern a lot of his source materials are coming offshore well everything is everything's off show so here

materials because I do know someone who does some silicone uh molding and that's a concern a lot of his source materials are coming offshore well everything is everything's off show so here here's my real life example and I've made a video on this before so the reusable containers that I currently make are stainless steel they're stainless steel with a silicone lid we are 100 plastic free super proud about that right so in uh January I had uh an order of 8 000 pieces and the tariff was 2 percent right that's the tariff rate that I've had on these things for the last four years and um so that order of 8 000 pieces the tariff was 850 dollars I just had another order come in in July same amount 8 000 pieces but with the new 10 percent on China another 10 percent that was the flat tariff rate the 50 percent on stainless steel right so now we're up to 70 percent it's compounding and then and then the 2 percent that existed my tariff that was 850 dollars in January was 30 000 dollars on the same exact product now if you are just an Etsy shop yeah what are you gonna do you know and you were like chugging along and and that and that's and yeah I'm using Etsy shop but you're also say Melissa Butler at the lip bar which is still a small business you know it is a woman-owned cosmetics brand yeah in target stores and then all of a sudden you you you can't have all your products just go from being you know uh a 14 lip gloss to having to be 35 dollars yeah to absorb this and um these these things can't be found in the United States yeah but they they don't have a replacement so even if I wanted to make my stainless steel containers in the US I can't I can't and not only that on stainless steel it's on raw materials too yeah and we bring

they don't have a replacement so even if I wanted to make my stainless steel containers in the US I can't I can't and not only that on stainless steel it's on raw materials too yeah and we bring all that stuff in so did you have to pay that yep so you want to say did you raise your prices then not yet so this is what we've been doing um what what you can do and um if people aren't sure this is very nerdy now but um so I I brought this stuff in I put it in a free trade zone everything in Rhode Island Rhode Island the whole state happens to be a free trade zone what that means is that I don't pay the duty at the port like I normally would I pay it when the goods leave my warehouse though so I did that to buy some time essentially I've had to ship out like 10,000 pieces or I'm sorry not that not 10,000 1000 pieces from that order but I've had to pay the tariff then so okay so you're not having to pay it because you're in Rhode Island when you get it right then you can kind of piecemeal it out well I can because of how my customers work right but like if I owed that whole 8,000 to Walmart right I'd have to pay it right away because you're extending your cash flow yeah I'm still paying it well I'm also hoping because the tariff rates change based on what it is that day then so I'm hoping that somebody comes to some sense yeah I don't know I don't know it's interesting because the tariffs for someone like say a Walmart they knew they were coming so they just bought surplus and probably stored it in the free trade zone like you're talking about um they kind of game the system or they got it they bought it when the tariffs were low got it through the trade zones and into sitting in their distribution network somewhere knowing

about um they kind of game the system or they got it they bought it when the tariffs were low got it through the trade zones and into sitting in their distribution network somewhere knowing they're going to sell it at a future date but they're not paying that high tariff that's coming behind it I mean possibly um I don't I don't honestly know what Walmart is up to you but you know the distribution centers are like generally places of like turnaround right so oh they need to roll that inventory quick yeah so to say that they have a whole bunch of storage available yeah but then also Walmart doesn't make their stuff they make some stuff like they have their own house brand you know like the weight drugs versus Advil but um they have tons of suppliers and tons of seasonality like you go into Walmart and it's like all the every everything changes you know in spring, summer, fall, winter and so that's where I'm just like now that the fall reset is happening you know how we all get super mad that we start seeing like pumpkins in August when it's 40,000 degrees like that's what's happening now and so that was that was nothing to be planned for right because that was all done last year yeah yeah I feel like I started seeing it beginning of July even the fall stuff depending on the floor yeah yeah I see if we're going to the store I'd die to avoid it yeah it's just randomly like I go to Costco a lot um I love Costco um because just uh my children I've grown up where the or I raised my kids where they're their friends we were an open house they could just come here so I always had tons of snacks and drinks and food like the last like 28 years because my oldest son's 28 so I've just been in the habit I have to buy bulk even though now

could just come here so I always had tons of snacks and drinks and food like the last like 28 years because my oldest son's 28 so I've just been in the habit I have to buy bulk even though now my older two are gone I'm still buying them I need to at some point in just but my point is is I saw Halloween stuff in Costco mid-july wow oh yeah yeah it was already starting and I saw some a tick tock of a woman who kind of keeps an eye on holiday stuff for I don't follow her it was the first tick tock but she said what she's seen is you know if you go into uh home goods or marshals or something and they have like the clearance wall or whatever she's saying that there's there's Halloween fall stuff on the clearance wall from last year and then it's taking up like a third of the store and then another section of the store is the new stuff and she's like this is the first time she's seen that and she said her advice because this is why people follow her she's like as soon as Halloween's over get out there because they're going to have so much surplus of stuff on even triple clearance this year like she's never seen and I don't know if that's related to tariffs or related to anything but she said she's never seen such a surplus of stuff before so I know it's an interesting consumer pressure maybe I don't know I don't know yeah so I do think that there will just be shortages I I do think that what most businesses are going to do is just pull up stakes and not order like they'd rather have no it would because the the tariffs are so margin destroying like that you'd rather not order it and because you can't take the hit like most most margins that I've ever worked on you know for like electronics and stuff is like

are so margin destroying like that you'd rather not order it and because you can't take the hit like most most margins that I've ever worked on you know for like electronics and stuff is like 30 points right so you can't what are you gonna do like give it away and so yeah I think people will like businesses will just stop buying for now until this slows down or stops or something that's an interesting thing because I can see Walmart having the ability to to squeeze their suppliers and say we're sharing in this burden or you're taking the brunt of it but that's Walmart not everybody's Walmart Etsy right Etsy shop compared to Walmart Etsy person has no no leverage right but what I'm saying is is that even Walmart like these numbers are so out of control that you you can't go to your supplier as you're picking out of business well or you can't even say let's share it let's do anything there there is absolutely no way that Walmart and the supplier will not have to raise costs on the consumer but like there's no getting around it because if you're going from having you know a three most tariffs before like our our worldwide tariff rate was on average about 2.8 percent because we want to encourage free trade you know and so now that's gone to like I've heard like the Yale economist person is saying it's 18 percent I truly believe like I listen I'm such a nerd about this I don't think they realize their additive nature of this I think that they're they don't know yet that is stacking on top not only are they stacking on top of the tariffs the new ones they're on top of the old ones that Trump did the first time around that Biden didn't get rid of so when I was at the lip bar that's when Trump was he first did rounds of tariffs

new ones they're on top of the old ones that Trump did the first time around that Biden didn't get rid of so when I was at the lip bar that's when Trump was he first did rounds of tariffs that he put 25 percent on a bunch of stuff coming out of China not everything you know but it was a bunch of different classes of goods and that's when and this is what's funny that's when we were buying components in China and bringing them in the United States and we were making the makeup the actual cosmetic fill in the US so we would buy the compacts and the lipstick cases all that in China bring them here I had to move production to Taiwan because if I took the components from China to Taiwan and then brought Taiwanese makeup into the US I only had three percent tariff so I actually took business away from the United States because especially with cosmetics if you're doing and maybe you're familiar but drugstore cosmetics are very different from like Sephora cosmetics stuff like the the price structure that can be handled so if you've positioned yourself as a drugstore makeup brand you can't just all of a sudden be like okay this is a $40 lipstick yeah at Walmart that wouldn't work so we had no choice but to re-root everything around. What's interesting is this is another plug for you so you could be hired by somebody what you're describing you really have an expert understanding of the logistics and how to optimize the the the supply chain where to source from understanding what what the different tariffs are the additive components of now they're taxing stainless steel it's not just the finished product but there's a stack-on effect. I find this I think this stuff is fascinating and you mentioned the fall reset a lot of people don't think of it in

stainless steel it's not just the finished product but there's a stack-on effect. I find this I think this stuff is fascinating and you mentioned the fall reset a lot of people don't think of it in that terms I kind of I get that I think in those terms because that fall reset is being ordered probably what in January or earlier or earlier ahead right you're freaking out next year's product now now and so it's it's just a fascinating thing I think the whole global supply chain is fascinating and you're someone who could somebody could hire you to help navigate all that yeah for sure develop a product now I don't know where to go anymore am I making my shit on Mars like what's the tariff rate at the moon I don't know have you seen any movement right the the intention of all of this is to raise revenue and to bring product into the US and make it here right and that's great grandiose I'm aligned to that however the implementation of that is extremely difficult right because we don't do this stuff anymore and you don't just it doesn't just appear out of vapor if you've built your entire company using contract manufacturing that was your premise and if you're a new company in the United States in the last 25 years that's exactly what you did like unless you had unless I don't know you're you're you're making like leather belts out of cowhide on your own ranch you know what I mean and so you built an entire business on contract manufacturing you have to keep that business afloat during this time yet you're paying instead of 850 in tariffs all of a sudden you gotta pay 30 000 in tariffs where's the extra money to build a fucking factory yeah yeah and nobody and I and here in the in the US uh venture capitalists now have been very like well tuned into looking

where's the extra money to build a fucking factory yeah yeah and nobody and I and here in the in the US uh venture capitalists now have been very like well tuned into looking for a unicorn that is a tech startup and all they're into right now is AI and I keep saying AI doesn't have arms and legs yeah it's not making shit and so oh and what's also funny is that uh when I first moved back to the east coast uh before I bought my house I lived in a factory like I lived in not like a bomb I lived in a converted factory right because all of the factory buildings here that used to be for all the textile mills this is where all the textile center was lots of jewelry factories and stuff like that they're apartment buildings right so part of that rejuvenation of a lot of old rust belt urban centers they converted the old factories into nice condos same thing in Detroit same like that's part of revitalization of downtown Detroit is all these old buildings being turned into apartment buildings and so where are we going to do it and who's giving us the money to do it because my company I I've never worked for a company that was just sitting on millions of dollars like in a just emergency factory fund yeah yeah you know so there there isn't an option and then to make it even worse it still won't be cheaper it still won't be less you know it's because we have to pay American workers we have to pay American insurance we have to pay you know all all of that stuff that doesn't exist overseas and my my gut what I believe I I do think and this is not necessarily me giving the president the benefit benefit of the doubt but I do think that he's an old man who remembers tariffs possibly being impactful in the 80s because that that could

not necessarily me giving the president the benefit benefit of the doubt but I do think that he's an old man who remembers tariffs possibly being impactful in the 80s because that that could have helped that could have helped a lot of toy companies not leave that could have helped you know stuff like that that could have saved some industry in the 80s and I think he just doesn't know that we don't make stuff well what's the last time he's been in a target you know or picked up something that says made in Vietnam on it you know and right I I honestly I I think a lot of people don't know that we don't make anything yeah some somewhere some there's a secret like blender factory you know and like whatever just sitting idle and being so mad at all the you know Chinese blenders yeah do you think they don't know or just don't give a shit well okay you have to know what I mean do you like so many people have commented on my videos saying just buy American I do think that I think there's just a lack of understanding and they think that you know Chinese products are just getting shot into the country you know and then just showing up at Walmart or that Walmart's doing it yeah like everything inside a Walmart is from Walmart somehow I I there's a massive disconnect because I'll often ask people I'm like well who do you know who works in the vacuum cleaner factory yeah yeah like nobody you know and I think the country is so big that maybe they think you know Arkansas people don't realize you know everybody thinks the Walmart is a retailer which they are right they're the largest retailer but they're truly the largest logistical company in the world too yeah yeah yeah the largest supply chain when I think of a made in America I actually would think

they're the largest retailer but they're truly the largest logistical company in the world too yeah yeah yeah the largest supply chain when I think of a made in America I actually would think of like how you just said like some a person making belts from cowhide on their like if the farmers market if I buy something made in America like truly made in America I know I'm spending a lot of money because it's almost like a a special specialty item I'm I'm I'm and I'm willing to spend that I this belt or this box or whatever it truly was made from a tree on land and they carved it and I'm going to spend 150 dollars for this box it's almost like art yeah you know and so it those things I do think exist like people are making you know clay pots and their thing and although maybe the clay came from China I don't know but made it was made by an American in America so let's just not maybe not all artisanal product right maybe not every item was made in America but an American made it so I think there are those things and I think people sometimes will say made it by it and I support that I do support support people Americans who make things so I'm 100% on that on board I just want to make that clear but if you say by American you're talking more about that type of stuff and yes support those people support people that are making things in America but they're not making a blender they're not making a dishwasher they're not making a maybe a plate a clay plate but that plate might cost you 15 dollars a plate because this is a piece of art they made with their hands so that I think is a disconnect sure you can buy American but you're not going to go get plastic plates that were made in America to give your put your kids lunches on does that make sense

so that I think is a disconnect sure you can buy American but you're not going to go get plastic plates that were made in America to give your put your kids lunches on does that make sense yeah I think that's disconnect a little bit I it's completely a disconnect but I also think the one silver lining that I think could possibly exist is that we'll cut back on the consumerism like we we I'm not a big consumer like I made a joke the other day I'm like if you scroll back through all my videos you're probably seeing me wear the same eight shirts that I've owned for the last like four years like I'm not a big shopper yeah and and I think a lot of our our culture like through social media is also like added into by the consumerism by the availability of things like now you can have a whole gender reveal party that has a whole packet of accessories that go with it you know like we'll do all these things we do uh I don't know why I'm stuck on babies but like we do like sprinkle baby showers right now like instead of you just get one baby shower you had one kid and that's it I know and that's not foreign to me because when we were growing up having kids you had your one baby shower and then that was that was kind of it yeah and then you and then you just have everything for your whole life and then but if you think about it now like all these little things all these little instagrammable moments or whatever they have accessories they have shit to buy to make this party make this picture like and I I do think this was the end times when it was like the peak consumerism of see how did you see videos of people decorating the inside of their fridge why I would see videos of people like buying like organizers yeah there there were there were the organizers but then I

did you see videos of people decorating the inside of their fridge why I would see videos of people like buying like organizers yeah there there were there were the organizers but then I saw people like putting like little like directory picture frames up and stuff like that like inside no yeah but even even all those organization things you know like consume consume yeah and it's all plastic and it's all it's all shit yeah on the planet forever yeah yeah I do think that inadvertently between the less trash if there's nothing to buy you're not buying trash and that's part of the reason why I got into sustainability now at this stage in my career because I realized oh all this shit that I made is just actually shit like I don't care if it was I was making air cleaners for a while those air cleaners are in all landfill like nobody fixed them like I've just polluted the planet for the last 15 years you know and so I think between not having stuff to buy but then also less traffic on the ocean less container ships going back and forth less container you know riding on a on a mac truck you know but it'll be devastating to the economy and that and that's the problem right because people people need jobs yeah what you're describing is fascinating right you've got this whole global shift with the tariffs but then you have this huge influence of AI to very one's more controllable right maybe you could say back off on the tariffs and that'll get us back to status quo but then you've got the AI disruption so it's you know the world's crazy I do think the AI thing is um a bit overblown and I only say that after years of being like being told every everything that is like the next major disruptor you know like bluetooth is changing everything

AI thing is um a bit overblown and I only say that after years of being like being told every everything that is like the next major disruptor you know like bluetooth is changing everything you know wi-fi is now changing everything the internet itself like I remember do you guys remember when uh we really first started being online so this was like that for me um back in like 1998-99 my ex-husband and I we had our pc in the house and we would like take turns on it you know like to go online and whatever and I remember going online and I'd be like I'm online what now like everybody's like oh online online it's so great and I'm like okay now we're all connected and we can you know we have social media and whatever but is it like online doesn't wash my dishes AI is not going to wash my dishes it's not going to feed my cats like it's not gonna cook my dinner it's just not and I think it like eventually okay it can compute fast and I do like using chat gpt I know it's very controversial I do like it I did tell it to stop blowing smoke up my ass though I was like you're like because I gave it my resume I was like look at my resume tell me you know like what you think and it was so complimentary I was like you are full of shit like calm down man like I am I am not Gandhi you know and um so but I I think that there is a huge difference between AI doing AI stuff and then being surrounded by robots like wow and and not only that and I've said this before and people find it a bit controversial I think robots are never going to be cheaper than people it is cheaper to have a whole bunch of Chinese people working in a factory with their fine motor skills you know like okay maybe you can have a robotic surgeon you still need a human person guiding the robot

whole bunch of Chinese people working in a factory with their fine motor skills you know like okay maybe you can have a robotic surgeon you still need a human person guiding the robot yeah everybody's like they're gonna get better they're gonna get better okay but are the robots gonna make robots like is it just gonna be robot in there yeah I don't know if you've looked into like a genteck AI it's kind of getting into that right where you start to build these agents that's the agentic part that are autonomous that start to have human reasoning and start to make decisions it's it lives in the computer yeah yeah yeah you know what's funny is that um how we had talked about porn earlier and men and porn and young men in porn well with the AI um what how AI is AI is affecting women in some similar ways or it's just at the beginning and I'll be curious to see how this pans out but women are having AI boyfriends or getting validation through AI um but truly creating AI boyfriends and getting their emotional needs met through chatgbt and other ways um and boys are too men men are men are too but men need the physical pleasure women need that emotional connection that we want that emotional connections and that validation or young women at least in that journey of trying to find a partner and all that or wanting to find a partner so um so it's almost I'll be curious to see how that pans out because that could also create as much as the men are disconnecting because of the overload of the physical stimulation from porn that their physical needs are getting satisfied through porn and they're struggling to connect with a real woman if the women's emotional needs are getting so perfectly met by AI then regular men are never gonna they can barely

satisfied through porn and they're struggling to connect with a real woman if the women's emotional needs are getting so perfectly met by AI then regular men are never gonna they can barely meet it right I agree that that's why I had to tell it to you know calm down and because it's so complimentary yeah it honestly is I'm like this is disturbing like it but it feels good right and you're you've had life experience you're self-aware you're right but if you take a 24 year old or a 28 year old you know who has maybe gone through these dates with men and been treated horribly and shot down and then you have this AI like filling that void and and all those that's to me that's very dangerous oh it is men will never be able to meet that ever no I'd be willing to bet you're on you're spot on I do I develop so I do some nerdy shit I'll make scripting and python development html stuff like that right and I use co-pilot and I'll be like make me a script that does this and it'll be like sure thing Brian hope it's been a great day for you let me pull that out and and give me just a second that kind of thing so it's like it's just kind of weird you know there's a loneliness man loneliness male epidemic the AI could fill the loneliness that women are could be feeling like the disconnect between the sexes right now for the reasons could be getting filled through technology I think dangerous yeah I could totally see it was only men with porn we were worried about now there's technology that can fill the needs of a woman emotionally that's just a recipe and then you have robots so we're actually heading towards terminator well then you if you if you type something into say chat chat gbt or co-pilot there's tons of llm's the large language model AI models right you

actually heading towards terminator well then you if you if you type something into say chat chat gbt or co-pilot there's tons of llm's the large language model AI models right you could say something like you could you could search what are the symptoms of menopause now it's got that and then you come back a week later and you'd be like how do I what's the best medication for you know headache it'd be like oh hi Nicole I know that you're in menopause at this moment and I hope you're feeling good and you're getting rest and all this bullshit and you're like oh my husband doesn't say this you know yeah yeah 100% but nobody does you know like where we're we don't really treat each other with much kindness you know all the time like we do with our kids right I would say we're very solicitous to our children and maybe to our parents to some extent but on a daily basis I think a lot of us aren't getting like seen and even though like the llm's or whatever don't see you it feels like it like I was um I was working on um I've had this idea for uh a movie script rolling around in my head for a while but I've never written one like again I only take it so far and so I uh I put it in the chat gbt and then it was just like oh this is amazing like I was like really like tell me more and uh and I was like that's when I had to tell it to be like okay you you gotta knock this shit off because it's almost like a drug in a way it's opening it yeah yeah it's like that first time I ever smoked a cigarette you know yeah yeah yes do you have a lot of hobbies so I would say right now um my my main hobbies are um writing um and and then doing my tick tocks you know um and then at this point I'm kind of like spiraling a little bit not gonna lie

say right now um my my main hobbies are um writing um and and then doing my tick tocks you know um and then at this point I'm kind of like spiraling a little bit not gonna lie because I'm trying to do all these different things but with my job I travel so much that it like interrupts any potential continuity yeah like oh I'm gonna go to this class you know and it's every Monday or whatever um that's that's really been kind of a screw in a lot of my and I I also have to go to Boston two days a week to the office and from here the the whole journey is two hours each way and so so it kind of just throws my life into disarray yeah yeah what do you guys do for hobbies well I'm doing I find it funny because I don't think Gen X women in general have had time for hobbies you know I have to be thinking about it like I think it's more men that have hobbies because we've given them that space to have hobbies because we've done everything you know so when I I don't have a hobby I I actually hit 50 actually I do have a hobby now I did not have a hobby I'm a writer so when I had time through my life I did write but I utterly and completely devoted every ounce of my soul into raising children and a lot of that was rooted from my own childhood and I'm very like I've gone through healing and all that I loved being a stay-at-home mom I love being a mom I love being a wife we have a helicopter pad yeah yeah so I I I didn't need I didn't have the need to work outside the home because the stability I found from creating a home fulfilled every ounce of me like it really truly did so I was like totally fine like I'm a stay-at-home mom and I'm completely fine with that because I really truly am in the meantime I'm also grinding through life and probably

was like totally fine like I'm a stay-at-home mom and I'm completely fine with that because I really truly am in the meantime I'm also grinding through life and probably ignoring a whole bunch of trauma that I stuffed down and didn't deal with so when I turned 50 is when I you know my older two are left for college I'm my youngest my our bonus baby as we call him um is getting older didn't need me his hands on anymore and all of a sudden I could look around and breathe and I was like I have no idea who I am because I'm a mom and I'm Brian's wife I wrote a book back in 2009 but other than that I have no idea what I like yeah I like the grateful dad I think I told you that I commented on your words or something but I don't know what I like if you asked me what I liked I could not have answered you now so I spent I'm 54 now so I think my hobby the last four years is figuring out who I am so I went on a healing journey because I realized if I stay the path I am with the alcohol I consume because I was in perimenopause in my 40s and coping with that with alcohol because I didn't understand I'm in perimenopause I just thought I'm going crazy I'm gaining weight I'm uh have anxiety and maybe some depression and brain fog I also have thyroid disease so I call my 40s just this I'm surprised I made it through I'm always I'm surprised with every decade I'm always like oh I made it I made it through my teenage years like I totally didn't think I was making it through that and then I'm like I made it through my so everyone's like wow the 40s though I will say that's why I'm always like talking perimenopause perimenopause but um so I cut down my alcohol significantly I changed how I was eating I actually finally implemented a true lifting weights because

always like talking perimenopause perimenopause but um so I cut down my alcohol significantly I changed how I was eating I actually finally implemented a true lifting weights because that's so important our age I always I hated that and I always put that off walking um trying to learn how to meditate which is so challenging for me and really trying to get into yoga so really trying to focus on myself health wise and then this pod and I also reclaimed my energy which we actually have a hoodie that I wear that says that from because within our marriage um I had given over so much of myself uh that I needed to balance that because he naturally was used to me giving over so much of myself that and men just don't see that they really don't and so I had to reclaim and then basically set boundaries and kind of say look this is where I am right now this is what I will accept and this is what I won't and if we're gonna work you need to adjust that and and and we would talk about that and um and that was a learning curve for him you know because I was there were things I just I'm not going to do anymore I'm not going to put up with anymore and I was putting up with it because I was just part of that journey but then I just hit and that could be perimenopause that could be menopause because you stop giving a fuck about pretty much everything because of the hormones the estrogens dropping and all that I always say that's probably a catalyst and and and reclaiming but um so there was a shift with us and then we started doing this podcast so I would say it's a very long answer but and it's so convoluted but that has been my hobby is just figuring out who the fuck I am I know and I think it's so crazy like I you know um some people say that

it's a very long answer but and it's so convoluted but that has been my hobby is just figuring out who the fuck I am I know and I think it's so crazy like I you know um some people say that oh working out is a hobby or whatever and I I work out every day I have ever since I was 22 yeah and I always say that that that like saying working out is your hobby or um or meditating or or journaling or whatever is kind of like saying brushing your teeth is your hobby yeah but women get so stripped down when you're a wife and a mother that basically taking care of yourself has become glorified as a hobby you know like going to yoga is a hobby going to yoga I'm sorry is not a hobby because that is self that is taking care of yourself it's like saying you know washing my ass is my hobby yeah and um and so I think that that so much has gotten we get so stripped back to being like a husk of a person yeah that like I and and and I think about this with Gen X women a lot too and um just because I was such a pick me as I was saying earlier like you're such a pick me to start off with when you're young not maybe not you but I was no no I'm one of my pick me moments definitely definitely to the point where I don't even know what I like yeah because I I spent my whole life being like yeah I love snowboarding I'm cool you know oh I I'll go see the Grateful Dead 400 times yeah I'm cool like I'm a cool chick I'll watch baseball like yeah fuck all that shit in the great ality yeah but then but then it was so deep inside me that I'm like well what what do you like yeah yeah and um and I don't I don't know if men fully realize that um we're on some fake ass shit with you guys like we're just like you know yeah we cleave to the man yeah and and to where

yeah yeah and um and I don't I don't know if men fully realize that um we're on some fake ass shit with you guys like we're just like you know yeah we cleave to the man yeah and and to where we're like um and and I will say like my uh ex-husband um he would like actively make fun of stuff I liked all the time too you know so um you know whether it was a tv show um or music or whatever or like like I don't know getting ready doing me like where I think a lot of men may like have carp launch to like make fun of all the stuff that women do because it's girly or I don't know because we're women and uh and and then um I've thought about this too like how men always say that women shop all the time you know like oh women's only hobby is shopping it's because we buy everything for your life yeah like we made your house we bought your food like sorry we had to spend money at a store to do it yeah or or we bought your mom's christmas gift or mother's like right and the kids don't even get me started on holiday like women are the magic makers yep when I'm not saying before any listeners write in I know there's always those few men that are like amazing unicorns I get it but not always yeah not all men no women are the magic makers and in the holidays I I will I will fight that because I fight anyone who says that's not true because it is true and nothing gets me more mad than on social media when I see that she doesn't have anything in her stocking oh I know I want the flat stocking to my phone and strangle her husband I'm like I I don't even okay I will say this like from the day we've been together he's always been awesome about all that like my talking's been overflowed I've gotten way too much talk about consumerism the birthday

will say this like from the day we've been together he's always been awesome about all that like my talking's been overflowed I've gotten way too much talk about consumerism the birthday mother's day so like I'm definitely married to someone who um hit all the important points like I wasn't slighted in any way or if I had a dream when I wrote my book he was right there supporting anything I wanted to do yeah he's always been incredibly good I was in a slumpt away and he was incredibly supportive totally so you know because I'll see that people saying just divorce and I never had that point where it was like just divorce them I never had that but there were still things that needed to be addressed and because us being gen x and because of all that I just you know they had to be righted I wasn't going to go into my second half giving over as much of myself as I had and thankfully he also wanted to stay in this marriage and was like okay so I need to adjust some things and and you've talked before about your maturity jump and and it's it's like feeling seen like I need to feel seen in these ways and if you can't see me in that then we have a problem and so there's just and that's like communication but um I think so many women are gen x women feel this way like who am I whether they've been a stay-at-home mom or worked and been a mom because a working mom is doing both those jobs and I'm a big believer in that um so it's you either way are culminating to this quote unquote midlife looking around and saying okay what what about me and the self-care thing shouldn't be a hobby but it becomes one because we haven't been doing any self-care for 30 years anything it's like you know Maslow's hierarchy of needs you know like you have to

thing shouldn't be a hobby but it becomes one because we haven't been doing any self-care for 30 years anything it's like you know Maslow's hierarchy of needs you know like you have to start at the bottom you're like okay I've been breathing yes serving you know this is the bottom part of my pyramid and now I need to move up and uh go like brush my teeth and move my body you know and then I can you know eventually get to self-actualize or whatever but I also think that we live in a culture where what do women like in general right because all of our our likes and things that we do have been built on like a lot of it has to fit in to some level of serving somebody you know and so what can you even do okay you can sit there and maybe knit something because you can throw it down real quick and go up and you know take care of a baby or whatever so your little hobby of like something like that can exist because you can throw it in a bag and go cook dinner but like you can't do that when you're going to play 18 holes of golf you know and so you can't go on like a scuba diving photo shoot you know you can't just be like okay now I'm an underwater photographer as my hobby yes as a woman maybe what you can do is make some TikToks of you cleaning you know and then you're you know and so our our worlds are are limited by everybody that we take care of and I've said before that I feel like a lot of men don't realize this because I I do say um that men operate off the three P's I don't know if you've seen my videos I think I have seen that one that's how familiar yes yeah which is uh there it's the the three P's of male motivation which is basically like pay praise or pleasure right and so if they're not getting one of the three they're not going

familiar yes yeah which is uh there it's the the three P's of male motivation which is basically like pay praise or pleasure right and so if they're not getting one of the three they're not going to do it right and which is like okay like even even the outdoor work that men do there is potential praise for that and maybe because oh your neighbor sees oh yeah yeah exactly yeah not getting praise for cleaning a toilet right but I do believe because I don't like my my brother's amazing guy I have like my uh cousin's husbands are all amazing and I I don't believe all men are bad but I do think there's like blinders on so they don't since you're able to operate with three P's in mind for most everything like pay praise or pleasure you think women do the same so you you tend to think oh she really likes cooking dinner she likes doing all the Christmas shopping she likes doing all of this because otherwise she wouldn't do it because I wouldn't do it you know and I'm sure as hell not doing it and I I think they don't realize how much we do because ain't nobody else doing it you're still right nobody else is gonna see it yeah you just nailed that it's so true because it's so true oh my gosh and and we will do it because we know it needs to get done because we love our children because we love our partner because we we want to create this family we'll do what needs to be done now I do think men will say we go to work because we know we need to make money because that needs to be done because that pay your mind is better it's also easier I will be the first to admit you know we've been together a long time we've three kids there's no fucking way I could have woken up at three in the morning and you know

it's also easier I will be the first to admit you know we've been together a long time we've three kids there's no fucking way I could have woken up at three in the morning and you know rock the kid back to sleep and then go be functional and be happy that would drive me fucking crazy right but you know tell us what you can do no that's what I'm saying it's like there's roles right we've talked about this you fall into these different roles and some they're functional but they do wear you know they wear on you yeah especially for women you start feeling seen and you are only seen as your role not a woman not not the woman that you fell in love with not the girl that you first met you know not your wife who you've committed to you're just that role and that's where I think women get so lost and so then when their children leave the home and they don't have that hands-on responsibility anymore they don't have the role and that's when they're like okay who am I I mean I know I'm here still with you but wait you know what happened so what do I do now you know and um and thankfully because I know I've had boomers come in and be like you think you're the only one that went through no I'm sure they're very stoic and they grinded and they got through it but that's the point Gen X doesn't want to we don't want to just Gen X women aren't going to be stoic and grind through this part we're going to talk about perimenopause and menopause and all the shit that goes along with it we're going to talk about self-discovery getting to know ourselves again because we're entitled to do that and I'm sorry no one made you feel that way no one made us feel that way but we're claiming it and we're hoping the younger women learn from this so we're

again because we're entitled to do that and I'm sorry no one made you feel that way no one made us feel that way but we're claiming it and we're hoping the younger women learn from this so we're going to be part of the change just because you didn't talk about it doesn't mean we shouldn't and I'm not only that we're not going to drop dead anytime soon like they did like a lot of them were like okay I'm going to make it to 65 you know and yeah and whatever and then and also a lot of them were already in a grind of taking care of grandkids and we're not you know and so I think we unlike any other generation really before us you know we're not dropping dead and we're not taking care of grandkids I know a lot of us are maybe taking care of older parents and stuff like that but we have time to think we have time to to figure out what it is we want to do and I will see even though I was always a working mom after you know the first initial three or four years um I still was lost when they left I was like okay I'm still accidentally spending $200 a week on groceries yes it's me in the cat like what am I buying I keep just putting stuff in the freezer I'm like yeah I don't know how to cook small oh well that's right that's a shift I did though I cooked Sunday through Thursday for almost 30 years and um and I made a decision like to a year and a half ago I'm like I'm done with I'm done figuring dinner out every night I'll do it sometimes but punch out so but when I do cook now I have no concept how to I cook and I cook like the Costco all that chicken I still cook all of it and I could cut it up and it's all going on and now we're eating chicken for seven days because I don't know how to make anything small yeah but that's that's also

I still cook all of it and I could cut it up and it's all going on and now we're eating chicken for seven days because I don't know how to make anything small yeah but that's that's also breaking those habits so I'm sorry you were gonna no well what's fascinating to me is I thought I was asking an innocent question the hobbies that was like three hours ago yeah I did mention about one of your hobbies is TikTok so we should talk about AK MJ AKA mommy well let me go back to the reason I asked is because I thought we were gonna relate on something and then boom sorry you mentioned how you'll get so far and then you don't finish or you'll do this I do that but I'm gosh I'm gonna plead the fifth but I have some hobbies that I do that with so his just about his family um notoriously are hoarders and his mom is a hoarder and he's very much like gets anxiety if there's too much stuff everywhere because of that but what's so funny is he hoards hobbies so Brian'll have like 10 hobbies no doubt going on and then he owns all the things that go with that hobby so if it's fishing he has all the fishing stuff you know if it's music he has all the instruments you see some of these instruments we don't play these you don't play them no but we have to have them all okay no we don't have to I tried you tried but I always say the hoarding projects through the hobbies you know but also his brain is constantly as one of those brains that never stops in a way ever so I think the hobbies are an outlet for him it's actually relaxing to go to a hobby from that's kind of where I was going with you you're in operations you're logistics these are pretty technical things is your brain constantly going so you get so far then you're like well now I'm

that's kind of where I was going with you you're in operations you're logistics these are pretty technical things is your brain constantly going so you get so far then you're like well now I'm distracted I go somewhere else well I think I have always gotten to the point where I've done it to like a level of satisfaction like when I was when I was in the band we we played out a couple of like festivals like not like like little tiny festivals and and then we ended up playing at the hard rock in Detroit when that was still there and I was like all right I'm like I need to go to bed you know like this was this was enough like I I feel like with I think I've always maybe felt like you have to keep going at it and maybe this is just like capitalism in general or something until like it's gonna make you money or something like that and then I will say though with the the band stuff that my ex-husband and I after we would we would play garage band he was very good guitarist and he was in bands in the in the 80s and 90s and stuff and he still does it now like he still like drops in and bands and so we would hang out at you know Wednesday night whatever just like singing and you know we had guitars and amps and whatever um and so stuff like that but I always feel like I have to take it to like some nth degree like back when I was doing improv it's like okay am I gonna go do a stand-up set or whatever and I'm like no I want to go to bed yeah I don't I don't know I don't know I never I I guess maybe it is like collecting hobbies you know like where and a lot of it was um bucket list stuff which ties into my tiktok because so I had on my bucket list like I'm gonna be a published author I have I have you know I've now I'm a published author

and a lot of it was um bucket list stuff which ties into my tiktok because so I had on my bucket list like I'm gonna be a published author I have I have you know I've now I'm a published author I've got you know patents I've got like all this stuff was originally written on a bucket list like being in the band you know doing all that and then I added during covid I added become tiktok famous onto my bucket list just to fuck with my kids I was and I was like but you know what mom does with her bucket list right and they're like so embarrassed they're like oh my god my mom's gonna be on tiktok and then um and then I just started making tiktoks to essentially fuck with them and um I had a tiktok that I stitched um with extra ex patriarch I don't know if you know him um he's a he's a white guy with a beard um anyway he had asked the question uh for women like um what was it it was something like what was marriage like for you or whatever for women who have been married who are divorced what was marriage like and I made a video just telling how I felt and that video got like 1.5 million views or and all of a sudden I was had all these followers and yeah it was just on and I was like just messing with the kids that was literally it and and so I was like well I guess I do this now kind of keep this up and um that was a wild time when that first happened I'm sure you guys know too like when you first have like when yeah you go to bed and you wake up and all the notifications and whatever it hasn't happened it was happening I would say two three years two years ago more often I would end up waking up to like 500,000 views or whatever not anymore not anymore tiktok is not well tiktoks change even doing this like I said next

more often I would end up waking up to like 500,000 views or whatever not anymore not anymore tiktok is not well tiktoks change even doing this like I said next week will be a year and I feel just in the year tiktoks changed yeah definitely and ever since cut down and came back it's been different yeah so it's like there's something that's going on um but you definitely have a solid following you have a loyal fan base I think you know because I've watched your videos every time one of yours come up come up I watch it um and you seem to have a few regular commenters that come on and so um are you posting daily I don't I'm so bad about it see this is I'm taking it just so far and I I don't what will happen is I'll get in the mood yeah and and there will be um so maybe this is like a couple of times a week and I'll get in the mood and maybe I'll do like two or three videos that day what I do is I'll stack up comments that I need to reply to like I'll save comments and be like okay I should reply to that and I'll do I'll do a bunch um and that and then I'll go about my I I am so bad at this because all the things that that they say you should do like you should post at least once once a day or twice a day or whatever and I can't I can't like the days I have to go to Boston there's there's no way I'm not I'm not going to be the person who's like making videos on the train you know um I'm just not and um but I think that's part of your success is it's authentic you're making videos when you truly are inspired to make a video you're not just making a video to make a video yeah I think that's what comes through so but you know it's the quality versus quantity which I think I enjoy more from creators on social media in

just making a video to make a video yeah I think that's what comes through so but you know it's the quality versus quantity which I think I enjoy more from creators on social media in general because sometimes I can tell when you're just making this someone's making a video just to get that content out versus no this is truly they're inspired to talk about this whatever it is so um I think what it's working for you how long have you been doing it now um it started when I was still living in Michigan so um four years okay but it wasn't until I moved to Rhode Island where I had that first viral video so I think I was doing it for probably eight months a year before that okay hit and I I was just like talking about stuff like when I felt like it and um not trying to I don't know be a brand or have a positioning and then I fell into talking about men and relationships because of that one video but then I still would um explain you know stuff this tariff stuff I've been explaining now for years um and because it really has affected all of our costs you know and so it's a big reason for the the consumer um inflation that that we've seen you know and so anyway um yeah I've always been surprised I'm like how why are people interested in the bullshit that comes out of my face I think because you're just being honest you're being real and you're not trying to sell them something you're not trying to influence them you know you really aren't like you have your opinions but you're not coming across as you should think the way I think you're just saying these are the facts as I see them and here they are you know and I think it's more of a straight shooter concept which is very gen x yeah yeah that's true yeah you definitely are

just saying these are the facts as I see them and here they are you know and I think it's more of a straight shooter concept which is very gen x yeah yeah that's true yeah you definitely are have a gen x vibe about it so now did doing the tick tocks um your tick tock career hobby whatever you want to call it persona has is that what's led you to want to do a podcast or is that an inspiration coming from somewhere else I would say I wanted to do a podcast before I did tick tock okay I didn't have a good enough idea and then also the kids were still at home and stuff so I didn't have the time but ever since um ever since I I heard I learned about podcasts like I told you you know 15 years ago listening to Joe Rogan for the first time because my brother's like listen to this and I was like how do you how do you even find that you know like where do you go and then back when I was doing improv too I remember um guys at the improv place they had started a podcast and I was like podcast like why are you in a pod you know like I didn't even understand and I still don't kind of know where that name came from like why I think it's from no I saw something it was from um Apple Apple it came from Apple something with their like there had that AirPods and something with it did yes it somehow the room it came from Apple now I can't remember yeah that's been doing it forever that you realize that to your point you couldn't find podcasts right where do you go yeah Apple's been doing it forever Apple had something in the phone they put about podcasts right they came out with the software you can listen to shows from Apple on your phone on your computer that so somebody couldn't can correct me if I'm wrong but I I did read that yeah

right they came out with the software you can listen to shows from Apple on your phone on your computer that so somebody couldn't can correct me if I'm wrong but I I did read that yeah I didn't know that it wasn't TikTok because sometimes I say I read something but it was actually TikTok I actually read this I read it with my eyes with words you were even listening to a book oh and I read it so um what's your plan as far as uh your podcast mediocre at best when are you hoping to start launching that well hopefully in the fall so so that's the goal now um I've I've done all my my back work you know as far as like this is what some of the episodes are going to look like like this is very very raw so like I haven't even talked about it on TikTok like at all and so um but yeah the the concept behind mediocre at best is exactly what we were just talking about which is like being gen x taking everything just this far like doing all this stuff and I feel like as a woman as a a gen x 50 something year old woman like you are only mediocre at best you know what I mean like you can only and and it's a joke like the whole the logo is with an exclamation point too but it came from this is funny it came from I was walking to the train and um it was like early morning and whatever and I'm walking to the train and this like homeless dude outside of the mall in Providence he's like hey mediocre at best lady mediocre at best like I got cat called by mediocre at best and I was like you know what nothing's ever been truer man like you have that oh my god you have called me out and I and ever since then I'm like I'm gonna get a t-shirt that says that I and I feel that in my soul you know I do because and I also feel like we've made such a culture

and ever since then I'm like I'm gonna get a t-shirt that says that I and I feel that in my soul you know I do because and I also feel like we've made such a culture of just extolling all of this like idiotic like grind mindset and everybody's just gotta like all you gotta do is you know get up every day at 330 in the morning and get into your oxygen chamber you know and take a cold plunge and eat wheat germ and and it's just like you know what fuck it yeah maybe I'm gonna have a drink and I'm gonna I'm gonna find somebody to bum a cigarette off of like a like a disgusting freak like how do you like me now I love that love that it's like the antithesis of everything that's going on all all of that and then you'll be there with your past like taking a smoke and be like come on over here it's fun over here yeah can you imagine having a cigarette like I like that's like so far outside of my my realm I I remember like in the 90s oh yeah having like a beer and a cigarette in a bar and I wasn't like a smoker I was I was that one who would always bum a cigarette yeah I was a smoker so if we were partying I'm smoking yes so if I go to the hotel and hold it in and then you let it out yeah I think vaping is a million times worse I wish kids were smoking cigarettes vaping is a whole chemical process of crap at least and I'm not saying cigarettes are better at all I don't think kids should be smoking period but if they're going to I'd much rather see them smoking a cigarette than vaping roll a drum before you do yeah I could do that yeah there's my gen x advice kid they're old ones real cigarettes actually just smoke it's going yeah you could do that too instead of all the the other chemical stuff stay away from the chemical stuff kids

gen x advice kid they're old ones real cigarettes actually just smoke it's going yeah you could do that too instead of all the the other chemical stuff stay away from the chemical stuff kids say if it grew in the ground you're good but um I think that sounds awesome I love it I can't wait to see like where it goes because I love that um it's raw it's honest and I do think you're going to be kind of the counter to so much of the we're gonna do all those things just to and and that type a attitude that a lot of people especially midlife are starting to have and so you have to have that balance of you know like I said I cut down on my alcohol but I do still have a drink sometimes like we actually went to dinner last night and I didn't order wine he's like no alcohol no no booze tonight so that tells you I do still order it. Am I in the boat you're talking about there like I'm building a cold plunge we walk yeah he's yeah so I balance out a little bit. I call it my cancer prevention push out mode we're all gonna get cancer right so I'm trying not to feed it I'm trying to hopefully not starve it out there. I still like all of that I still like a sauna or whatever but if I just think about my life as a whole and the level of grind that I've been on like flying all over the world trying to make it in corporate America or whatever and I'm just like still double middle fingering my way like ow you know because like I still like only got so far and I think that I should embrace it though and that's kind of what it's about you know like it's it's about just relaxing and having a good time and and stopping that that grind I'm like maybe the opposite Mel Robbins you know. We love that platform MJ we just figured it out right here

it's about just relaxing and having a good time and and stopping that that grind I'm like maybe the opposite Mel Robbins you know. We love that platform MJ we just figured it out right here that is a great vibe I'll tell you a lot of people are looking for that I think it's great it's almost like look we are who we are and we've done what we've done and fuck it like I'm not gonna you know we're not gonna have a perfect body we're not gonna have perfect skin we're not gonna have you have perfect hair but the rest of us don't have perfect hair we're not gonna eat perfect like we've been grinding as we've given over our fucking souls yes and so we're reclaiming some of it back and fuck it I love that I think it's a great balance too because there is something to be said about the cancer push-off but you can get gen x also can get obsessive about things and like really into something you know so I don't know if that's a gen x thing or whatever but if you go too far that way then you're like stress that out I'm not saying you but in general like then you're don't worry I'm not saying no I want a cold punch I think I would like it yeah but oh do you ever cold punched I I've definitely cold punched in a um there's a place around here where you can it's a whole cycle it's like you go in the hot sauna then you go in the tub and then you get a cold punch literally awesome yeah love it that's cool see I want a sauna he okay so here's a little we're trying to not have it look a little west virginia in the backyard but he did buy a freestanding freezer and he's going to create a cold plunge and he's gonna Brian also is a big do it yourself for another hobby where he if I find something like in pottery barn he's like I can make it oh yeah

freezer and he's going to create a cold plunge and he's gonna Brian also is a big do it yourself for another hobby where he if I find something like in pottery barn he's like I can make it oh yeah sure so I'm gonna build a frame around it to match our pergola that he built in the back so he's gonna make it look real nice but right now it's just a freezer in our backyard so we're like go inside a freezer yeah you can buy you know a horizontal freezer not a stand-up oh my head you're like a kid in the in the in the trash dump like getting trapped in a refrigerator no no no no this is the most claustrophobic thing I've ever heard of no no and then they close the door and you're just no it you would get you would open the lid get into the cold plunge the lid stays open um oh you turned your freezer into yes yes he's making it into a cold plunge and he's gonna have a filter on it and a temperature thing and so he'll lift up the lid and that's what I'm in the process of sealing it now yeah and once I seal it I'll build the frame around it and all that it'll look pretty no yeah it sounds like it sounds like a great way to repurpose yeah yeah absolutely so and that's cool that's bad it's all balance right yeah can't be too crazy like you did have a pint of Ben and Jerry's last night I go back to the mountain of cold I've had a point the last five nights I think okay but you'll love this he hasn't gained a pound no of course not of course not yeah well you know I breathe in some of the ice cream and I gained five pounds yeah off his yes yeah I'm screwed I'm screwed for the week you know but the reason I was asking about the hobbies because I'm I go there the halfway not pretty close but like so for instance I have a nice

yes yeah I'm screwed I'm screwed for the week you know but the reason I was asking about the hobbies because I'm I go there the halfway not pretty close but like so for instance I have a nice hydroponic garden in the backyard kind of crazy it's I use raspberry pies to control it a bunch of shit right but in someone's like you should productize that you should go sell that and for me it's like no that takes away the fun right I don't want to go that extra step I want to have fun I need to I I'm turning my brain off as much as crazy as that sounds I'm turning my brains off my brain off with this highly complex thing I built you know and I don't want to productize it I don't read the whole thing yeah that's why I was curious just you know not to circle back on that but I have a feeling you could probably relate to that oh I know your stand up or your you know the improv the improv the band if you take it too far now you're on the hook to go to the hard rock in Detroit every Friday or Saturday that's not as much fun yeah exactly exactly it ruins the balance yeah it fucks up the balance yeah I need to have um I maybe overall I just have commitment issues I can't commit to a man I can't commit to a hobby I can't commit to a location like it's fine I just like fit about the planet I'll do whatever the fuck I want for you on that this and it's maybe it's personal maybe not I don't know um now that you've shut off men and you're done do you think that I don't know if holding out hope or anything that's not the right word but what if it happens now that you're like fucking I'm done and you've got that energy of I'm good I'm at peace I don't need a man and now mr. wonderful strolls in and you're like oh shit here we go are you okay mom

now that you're like fucking I'm done and you've got that energy of I'm good I'm at peace I don't need a man and now mr. wonderful strolls in and you're like oh shit here we go are you okay mom my mom called you and asked you to ask that question I've got her on speed okay Louise listen um I don't know how that would happen I honestly don't because like I don't know how it would happen I I feel like I've been out and about the world for years now as a single person and aside from like if I go out to eat normally like if I'm traveling for work or whatever and I'm by myself I always sit at the bar right because I'd like to talk to the bartender or whatever and I always think it's weird to just sit at a table by myself and um there have been men who have tried to talk to me at a bar but I'm like ew you're a gross guy at a bar and then I'm like well you're also at a bar I'm like I don't count right so uh so anyway um I don't know how it would happen first of all and um second of all I I and this is gonna sound bad you guys seem to be in like a really great relationship and whatever but I can't imagine like putting myself through it I guess which is like how is this gonna be how how I'm gonna go out on dates I don't find it that enjoyable I guess anymore like in between my first and second husband I dated like it was my job and I had so much hope and I believe that like my person is out there and all this stuff and but the actual date portions were always I I would wake up the next day and be like thinking oh I had a good time and then realize no I was I was the good time I was like entertaining somebody I was like and they were like being real good chat GPTs you know and like reflecting back at me like oh this is interesting or whatever

no I was I was the good time I was like entertaining somebody I was like and they were like being real good chat GPTs you know and like reflecting back at me like oh this is interesting or whatever and um and I I gotta say I I don't know if I could find somebody who I ultimately wouldn't feel like I was always doing more than I was getting back it's just been my history and but but that being said when you decide to also your kids aren't at home and also you don't have a man around and you're not trying to find a man it has left a hole that I could drive a truck through because like a man was a hobby for a thousand years right so I just set that hobby on fire you know and that's gone and um so I'm just like twit on my balls like I don't I don't even know I don't even know just trust us the podcast will take up all that time I know this does seem like very complicated the more I've because I've had to like dig in and learn about it and all of that stuff I was like oh is this gonna be too hard you can you totally can do it there's no question but it is there it is um there's more commitment than people I think really more commitment than we realize for sure you know and it's way it's really technical if Brian is very technical if he wasn't we couldn't do this I'm thinking I might hire a kid to do that like there's certain parts of it that just won't I won't have the attention span for you know like the technical editing portions and stuff like that and I know that so I've already been like looking for a kid yeah to do that that's local to me that I can talk to yeah no that's a good idea because that it that'll take a huge weight off of you and allow you to focus on the the meat of the podcasts and not be stressed out with all the

I can talk to yeah no that's a good idea because that it that'll take a huge weight off of you and allow you to focus on the the meat of the podcasts and not be stressed out with all the editing and the technical stuff you know so but either way even so that you have the time it sounds like to devote to this and it will take it'll fill a lot of that time if you keep it just yourself it's actually kind of easy if you start to branch out and do guests whether in studio or online it's that gets a little bit more exponential yeah I'll definitely have have guests on because I think it would be boring to just listen to me I don't know I mean at least a good six months in this a lot of just you talking honestly and then you guys just spent your whole weekend with me I love it I practically live with you now I love it I love it and and on that note before I ask my last question do you have any more because I always have to check with them because afterwards he'll say I had another question so no I got my that was my main question and the only thing I'll circle back on that is I could relate if we weren't together I don't think I'd be out there and it just sounds like a lot and I'd be probably hobby mania mode yeah and and maybe it is our age too right like I don't have you know I've got I've got some functioning ovaries in there but that's all I got left you know and then they're on their last legs yeah like I don't have the drive that I used to yeah it will say since I've said everything else that I I get sad sometimes thinking about it like I'm like am I gonna die never having made out again like that's weird to think about or you know that is sad but I also think that I could just like knock on a neighbor's door and make out with

made out again like that's weird to think about or you know that is sad but I also think that I could just like knock on a neighbor's door and make out with them if I wanted to actually I had a I had a thought on this I'm making out no I was thinking about this because I don't ever not think the concept of dating and you're dating guys that were divorced and you had mentioned that you know all it's women divorce men I found that interesting too that men don't divorce and I think you're spot on but it's like you're out and the people you're meeting are guys that women have kind of said no good what about a widower it's men are widowers right correct yeah that might be the that might be an uh niche that you haven't tapped into so I'll just start hanging out at the funeral home I'll just get in the processions you know when they go down the highway they're big juries like just read the obituaries every week and be like okay I gotta go over here no you know what I never thought about that but yeah they those ones weren't cast aside no that's true but they're sad they're be sad but maybe it's been like five years and they're okay uncle was a widower very dedicated husband father became a widower and he was a great guy he was a world war two vet and just uh too old actually yeah I know I mean peace now now that we put that out there now tell us in the next year I bet you she meets some widower oh god that'll be the one and all he wants to do is make out okay I put it out there okay and then leave you alone I think you have a lot to offer someone I'll leave it at that it's trying to fuck with you another man oh no no I won't say that I'm just easy um well because I think even though Brian said like if we weren't together but

someone I'll leave it at that it's trying to fuck with you another man oh no no I won't say that I'm just easy um well because I think even though Brian said like if we weren't together but men do want sex they really do and you're a man that does like sex and so I think eventually you would go out there to get laid I really do because I think that drives them you know they want to be taken care of they love the the house that a woman makes they love like cooked food and clean laundry they they love those services a lot of times yeah yeah yeah you might still want your services so I would I'd find it hard if there weren't the right services for sure yeah yeah but uh I do but I do think it's harder for men to be single because they do they still and I know there's gonna be women that right and they get mad at me that women like sex too I know women like sex I like sex but I'm not driven by it but I think men just biologically I'm not blaming them are so I think even 60 70 80 year old men still are looking at women and feeling I want to have sex you know where I think that a lot we're easier to stay single in our older age than men I could be wrong but I know no I definitely think like maybe like a 70 80 year old guy doesn't necessarily like want sex but he wants to be the guy who wants sex yeah and that's like a huge part of your identity right as a man like and and I do think it's kind of a shame I could talk forever on that topic but just like that I don't think necessarily that men are as driven by sex as they're told that they're driven by sex and that they they might like some men might like back like back off or not or like because it's just in the zeitgeist too much like that's what their guy friends talk about that's what like one way

that they they might like some men might like back like back off or not or like because it's just in the zeitgeist too much like that's what their guy friends talk about that's what like one way they relate to each other and whatever if they don't have like hobbies or sports or whatnot and I think maybe they would not be that maybe it's not a thing of a deal as they're told it it should be well no you're touching on something it's interesting it's it's the you're always from the time you realize what it is you're pursuing it yeah right and so old high old habits are hard to probably break so when you're 75 or 80 yeah that you know the what is it viagra right okay I can still do this and also when you're young porn and and society especially gen x men naked women in movies and all that um it's fed it's that's what I'm saying yeah it's a work condition to want it yeah yeah that maybe you'll have to come on or write that as a topic for your podcast oh yeah covering that because that's a very interesting topic you know to to cover so all right any more questions no no I'm good okay so my last question is always where do you see yourself in five years oh um well in five years I um I hope we will have sold our company that's always like the goal is to exit and then I won't ever work for anybody but myself again my goal is to ultimately do the consulting that you're talking about and I would like to keep working with startups and um but only hire me as a fractional coo right like I come in for six months to a year I get you all set up with all your systems and processes and then I go someplace else I don't want to like have the work politics and all of that stuff and um I do wonder where I'll live like I think about it now like am

with all your systems and processes and then I go someplace else I don't want to like have the work politics and all of that stuff and um I do wonder where I'll live like I think about it now like am I just going to keep this house you know like what what am I going to do and I don't know I like to keep all that flexible but the only thing I have any remote idea about is that I will work for myself in five years because if I'm still working for somebody else fucking kill me great goal and I you're such a wealth of knowledge I completely see that happening there's no question and on that note if we do have any listeners that want to reach out to you uh we'll just for our listeners we'll get the right contact information from MJ and have it in the notes in the description so people can get a hold of you if they do so even if I and I do give it away too much but even if you just maybe have some questions or whatever but I I do need to start working on I don't know charging people for all that because I'm helping everybody for free yeah especially especially like helping women entrepreneurs um uh and so if you have questions and stuff like that I'll yeah you know reach out I would say you have a unique highly sought after skill set and it's you shouldn't give it away for free absolutely yeah I'll do it I'm still married to him say I said this is why I'm still married to you you're just as nice as chat gbt yeah that's like literally what chat gbt said like word for word that's the new nickname I think you should charge I I get what you're doing it's global it's big it's needed it's cool stuff and it's a unique skill set not everybody gets it and you're an expert are building that business now so in five years it's charged that's what my psychic

big it's needed it's cool stuff and it's a unique skill set not everybody gets it and you're an expert are building that business now so in five years it's charged that's what my psychic said I I saw a psychic last week for the first time in a thousand years and she said all all of what you just said I'm I think that we're aligning with chat gbt and the psychic there you go that's this is your third oh that's because you know things come in three so oh okay there you go on spying on us so of course it's going to run for a moment it's just connected into the suit yeah absolutely but we mj we can't thank you enough for sharing your story with us for sharing your story with our listeners I know there's going to be so much in here that so many people it resonates with so many people that helps people feel seen that they can relate to that they learn things from so again I know it was two days with us and we you're very busy and you travel you're traveling and you've got a lot of things going and so we can't thank you enough for giving of your time I mean I had the best time um and I'm gonna come over and I'm gonna get in the cold plunge yes there you go but wait till it doesn't look like it's just a toilet on my back my backyard that he had don't leave me I'm gonna put a child on the floor oh I'm gonna put a crunch on the floor and for all our listeners please check out MJ on TikTok MJ aka mommy and it's spelled M-O-M-M-I-E check her out on TikTok keep your eyes open for her podcast mediocre at best again it'll be MJ Eldridge mediocre at best and if you have any questions for MJ please leave them we'll make sure she sees them so she can answer you and again all of her contact info and where you can find her will be in the show notes

best and if you have any questions for MJ please leave them we'll make sure she sees them so she can answer you and again all of her contact info and where you can find her will be in the show notes and thank you again for listening and we will see you next time bye