# Episode 53 - GenX Speaks Series: Greg Nordone - Co-Founder Greyson Technologies

- Podcast: GenX Adulting Podcast
- Published: 2025-11-16T00:00:00.000Z
- Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/18190116-episode-53-genx-speaks-series-greg-nordone-co-founder-greyson-technologies.mp3
- Page: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/transcripts/podcasts/genx-adulting-podcast/episodes/episode-53
- Source: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/episodes/genxadultingpodcastepisode53.html
- People: Brian Barker (host), Nicole Barker (host), Greg Nordone (guest)
- Topics: GenX Speaks

## Summary

In Episode 53 of the GenX Speaks Series, Greg Nordone, co-founder of Greyson Technologies, shares his journey from growing up in Miami to navigating life as a GenX adult. He discusses his family background, experiences in high school, college life, and the challenges of becoming a father at a young age after the loss of his father.

## Key takeaways

- Greg was born in 1976 and identifies as a GenXer.
- He grew up in Miami, Florida, in a family with Italian roots.
- Greg's parents met at Columbia University and had a long-distance relationship before marrying.
- He experienced his parents' divorce at age eight, which impacted his childhood.
- Greg was heavily involved in sports and theater during high school.
- He graduated from college and faced the challenges of early fatherhood and career responsibilities.
- Greg emphasizes the importance of relationships and getting out of one's comfort zone during college.

## FAQ

### What was Greg Nordone's childhood like?

Greg Nordone grew up in Miami, Florida, in a family with Italian heritage. He experienced his parents' divorce at a young age, which shaped his upbringing.

### How did Greg's parents meet?

Greg's parents met while attending Columbia University, where they were college sweethearts before eventually marrying.

### What challenges did Greg face as a young father?

Greg became a father at 25, shortly after losing his own father. He struggled with the pressures of providing for his family while navigating the complexities of early fatherhood.

### What advice does Greg give about college?

Greg advises students to invest in relationships and step outside their comfort zones during college to create opportunities and experiences that can shape their future.

### What was Greg's involvement in sports during high school?

Greg was actively involved in sports, playing football, soccer, and baseball, and he also participated in theater, showcasing his diverse interests.


## Referenced links

- [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxlZ1zzwbAA)
- [Listen on Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-53-genx-speaks-series-greg-nordone-co-founder/id1764838823?i=1000736910225)
- [Listen on Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/4A35CsbEegNI6DQp5xH6yG)
- [Listen on Buzzsprout](https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/18190116-episode-53-genx-speaks-series-greg-nordone-co-founder-greyson-technologies)

## Transcript

[Music]
Welcome to GenX Adulting and today we
have Greg with us.
Welcome Greg. Thank you.
Thank you for having me. We're thrilled
to have you. Our first question is always
what year were you born? 76. Okay so
you're GenX. Yeah and you're like, you're
not young GenX but you're getting there.
You're one. I think so.
You're edging towards the end but
you're still hardcore in that generation.
Yeah I would say so. I think I felt a
little bit on that like. So I connect
with you know. Yeah.
Certain side of the GenX.
So I think 76 is legit. Yeah of course.
Yeah yeah yeah I think that's like they
can still, your childhood was probably
still very GenX childhood.
Yeah I think so. So where
were you born? Miami, Florida. Okay and
were your parents from there? My dad is
from Miami, Florida. Yeah okay. So I'm
second generation native. Okay so.
Very rare. Yeah you're like a real
Floridian, a real guy
from Miami. So what about his
parents? Where did they come from? New
York. Okay. And then
my great grandfather.
Okay so your dad's Italian? Italian. A
hundred? Yeah dad's a
hundred. Okay. Yeah.
And so they came over from Italy. Yeah.
And then they were in New York, his
parents, and then came
down to Miami. Do you know why they came
down to Miami? My guess
is work. I think work.
But other than that I don't really know a
lot. My grandfather passed a couple
months before I was born.
Do you know what your grandfather did
that would have brought him
down here? I think it was like
steel and I think it was like steel and
stuff like that. Okay. Yeah. And then
your mom. Where's she from?
My mom's from Short Hills, New Jersey.
Okay I know where that
is. The mall. The mall.
New Jersey Sloppy Joe, Milburn Deli. Yeah
everyone knows the
Milburn Deli. So good. Yeah.
When we lived there the Short Hills was
like the fancy mall we'd go
to sometimes. So okay so she's
from New Jersey. How did they meet? They
met in Columbia. Columbia
in school. Okay so they both
went to Columbia? Both went to Columbia.
Okay and so they're
college sweethearts. Yeah I guess
they are. Yeah it was my dad's segment. I
went to Cornell. Okay. And
right guy but then got kicked
out like in his freshman year I guess he
didn't study or apply
himself very much. He played
football. Played like a little they had
two types of football like under 160
pounds or something like that.
No kidding. Yeah and then and then he
came back home and yeah and then back to
Columbia. So he so he
left Cornell because he wasn't focusing
and and locking in basically
and then he came back to Miami
but he was still able to get into
Columbia. Well so yeah that's impressive.
Yeah smart guy. I know but
yeah my dad was real bright. Yeah no
kidding. My mom's real bright too
actually. I think my mom's
smarter than my dad. What did they get
their degrees in? My mom's a dental
hygienist. Okay. She went from
there to Penn. Okay. And finished and got
her dental hygienist there
too. Yeah and then my dad
I think my dad is was general business
and then he and then he actually spent a
little time at FSU too
and then taught himself how to be a CPA
and became an accountant
then hated it and became a life
insurance salesman. Oh no kidding. Okay
is that funny? Yeah it is
funny. I hated it. Like just
just couldn't stand the boringness of it.
Yeah. So they met at
Columbia but then your mom went to
Penn and he went to FSU but they stayed
together? Yes well so this is
where it's blurry for me and
like okay this is funny because I should
know these things but I always my dad
passed when I was 25
so I don't think I was I don't think I
cared. That's not the
right word but I guess you know
it just wasn't as relevant to me as it is
now. Yeah and it's funny
thinking about this I was
like I should probably talk to my mom and
really map that out more
clearly. That's because it's
interesting because I think yeah I was
trying to figure it out.
Okay but they obviously stayed
together even going to separate schools.
Yes. They did long distance. Yes. And
then he ended up back
in Miami and then when she graduated Penn
she probably met him down
there I would think right.
She's gonna be so mad at me. Okay so if I
really think the actual way I worked was
he goes Cornell back here military. Oh
yes. So he was a marine.
Okay. Yeah because like
they were a hardcore family so like if he
got kicked out he
actually went to a boy's boarding
school in high school too. My dad like my
like me heavy ADD very
spazzy. Okay. They sent him to
boarding school for high school place
called Middlesex in
Massachusetts. Okay. And so then
this is where it gets fuzzy Cornell back
home military. I think
FSU then Columbia because I
think in Columbia they met got married
and came here so my mom
actually could be Penn Columbia.
Okay that makes more sense. That might
make more sense. Okay. She's
gonna be so mad. Yeah okay so
military. How long was he in the
military? Four years. Did he serve? Yeah
he did languages and
he was in San Diego. Languages meaning
translating. For what
languages? That's a great question.
You never got into it. Okay. Never talked
about it. But probably like
I would think Italian right.
I was actually my dad was really good
Spanish. Okay. And he did he
did just a lot of translation
okay stuff but would never really never
really got into what he did.
And he was wearing California
you said. Yeah that is really
interesting. What years would that have
been do you think? No.
But that would have been like if you were
born in 76 that would have
been the 60s. For sure. Yeah.
Was he in Vietnam? Vietnam. He served
during Vietnam but never
served. He never went over there.
Okay so he served during Vietnam but it
was in California
translating. Probably like semi
intel stuff. Yeah and got really lucky
you know to not have to. It is so
interesting. Wow for
that is really interesting. Okay and then
he went to Columbia your
mom probably went to Penn that
makes sense and then to Columbia. Yeah.
And then did they get married
before they graduate? Do you
know? No. No they got married down here.
Okay so then they go down. They got
married up there but
they moved down here. Okay so they get
married up there. They
moved down to Miami. And was his
parents still here in Miami when they
moved in Miami? Of course.
Okay and then her parents though
were still in Jersey right? Yes. You're
at the Grandparents? Yes in
Short Hills. They had that
home until my until my grandmother
passed. Okay and were their uncles
cousins aunts? Yes she has
two brothers. Okay. One two younger. She
is the oldest and then she
had a Jimmy and Doug. My dad
is the youngest of four total. One older
lived here in Boca. Older
brother then older sister
then older brother than him. So he's the
baby. He's the baby. And
then were there aunts and uncles
for you that you grew up around in Miami?
You know it's funny.
Michael Tony his family is
probably the closest we were probably
closest to them because
that's on my dad's side because
it felt like Boca to Miami Shores was you
know like 100 miles away
right? Like that it felt
where are we going? Why are we in a car
for this long? But we would
get together but you know the
age difference between my you know the
oldest and the youngest in
that family was significant.
Right right that makes sense. But I'm
close to Uncle Tony's
daughters now. That's cool. Yeah
that it's they're great. That's cool.
They're so great. So your parents are
married. Your dad you
said was an accountant for a while. Yeah
KPMG and Pete Morwick like
before all that happened and
then was like this is terrible and became
like a at that at that
point life insurance and then
financial planner. Okay and your mom was
a dental hygienist. I was a dental
hygienist for a while
until she was like I don't love this at
all. Right this is
really interesting. And then
then she at night studied to become like
a librarian or teacher
and then she ended up
being the media specialist for Killian
High School. Okay. And
then and then schools up in
the Pasco County area. Nice. Cool. Now
when were you or do you have siblings?
Yeah I have an older
brother and younger brother. Okay so
there's three boys. Yeah.
Did they start their family
pretty quickly after moving down here?
That's an excellent
question. No I don't I think it was
four or five years before okay or my
older brother was born. That's kind of
unusual for back then.
Yeah. You know that's. I think my mom was
like 30 when I was born
which makes Morgan like 20
or 27 and a half. Okay so she worked for
a while and before she
had you guys once she
you know had your older brother do you
know if she was a stay-at-home mom for a
while? No she worked.
So she worked. Yeah. Well so did you guys
so she worked when you guys were little
did you guys go to daycare? Yeah and yeah
there was a couple of um
a couple like church like schools and
things like that that we would go to.
Okay. In the local area.
I remember you know it's all really fuzzy
candidly it's kind of weird
because they uh so I was eight
and they got divorced. My dad really
struggled as as an as an
accountant he just kind of like
didn't want to do this anymore and he
knew he didn't want to do it
but really struggled to like
leave that and go be um go be a financial
or planners or life
insurance guy and I think that
wrecked his ego the struggle. Okay. The
inability to provide the
struggle and then I think like
and I look back and I think that that
resulted it might as
sweetheart of a guy but but I think
he was like tough into the family unit or
at least with my mom like
you know what I mean like
there's conflict there but I think that
conflict was like because he
was having struggles dealing
with his change. He was kind of in limbo.
Yeah and there were no
settled. It's not like you talked
about things back then. I would assume.
No help. Yeah there was no
one to consult with. Oh well no
mental health was a bad word you know
talk totally. None of
that he could have had some
depression going on. Totally and he's a
you know big ADD guy you know
me. Yeah all three of us are
ADD ADHD if you will. It's working you
know and and yeah there's
not a lot of help. There was
a lot of ritalin take it. Yeah no one no
one well was he on meds for
his ADD? I don't think so.
So I feel like that was pretty pretty.
Yeah there were nothing there for the
day. Yeah yeah so he's
he's kind of he's kind of stuck and
that'll come out in different
ways and and before he could
make his shift you know it sounds like
there was a breakdown within
the marriage you know and that
makes sense and again because there now
you can talk about all
these things so easily but back
then and I think also he was Italian
right you probably need to
be the man and not talk about
your feelings and all that so that
probably all went into play. So because
it's unusual too back
then during the 70s women were women did
work obviously and I know
that but it really wasn't
prevalent it was just starting in the 70s
and so to have your mom be
working then wasn't necessary
usual. My mom did end up working because
she was a single mom and I
think that was more normal but
to have a woman married and still be
working full time that wasn't totally the
norm. She had a tough
mom an independent mom as well so even
though in New Jersey my
grandfather was the town dentist
the short-hilled dentist and James
Conklin and and it was
interesting because she was
I think a flight attendant my grandma
right but but like anyway it was just
like she was a worker
versus not stay at home for per se right
yeah and and my mom going
to college and and two good
and those things like yeah like yeah that
was always pushed like
my mom's tough cookie man.
So that that really started with your
grandmother then yeah you think that and
she was that example
and I would love to know where your
grandmother got it from because it
started somewhere you know
and it wasn't the norm it wasn't so
somewhere along the line your
grandmother made that decision.
Right there did your was your grandmother
first generation here or
were her parents because I
think you said your dad's family was
first generation right
no my dad's uh my dad's
let's say my dad's grandfather was first
generation so his father was
born here in the states okay
yeah they were they were tougher I think
I think that side of
the family was tougher
my mom's mom my grandma was Swedish yeah
I don't know it's a it's uh
it could be that it could be
that too yeah I think that's really yeah
exactly yeah it could be
that too no I think that's
really fascinating okay so um when you
were in elementary school
so that's when the divorce
happened yeah I was eight you were eight
so that's like what third
grade I think that's third grade
second third grade third grade and so
your older brother
would have been how old
10 to 10 and a half and then your younger
brother what kindergarten
okay so that's there's three in
elementary school yeah and now um they're
going to get divorced
which again was still not very
bad at all that would have been what like
you were born 76 that's
the early 80s it was just
starting that whole divorce thing um do
you have memories from that
period or um anything that
stands out during the divorce or how it
affected your family sure
there you know a couple of
fights we observed that we didn't you
know weren't great they actually the way
they told us was real
tough um they were in the middle of a
really big fight we had this uh cool
house in Miami Shores
it was funny I you know it's funny they
bought this house three
months before I was born
and sold it and I moved out after I
graduated high school so I lived in the
same home for all 18
years that's really awesome that's cool
yeah so it was funny I was
listening to a song on the way
here it was about uh you know going back
to your old home you're not
allowed to go in but you know
but um and I remember we had this
playroom downstairs and
the kitchen was upstairs the
bedrooms in the playroom were downstairs
the kitchen living
room and all the living
space was upstairs and they had this big
fight in their bedroom and
they came out into the playroom
and they're like boys were getting
divorced but it was just violent I
remember it being violent
so it was after me yelling yeah their
their energy everything
they were coming right off
a fight and they told you guys and was
that a shock yeah for all
you guys yeah for sure and
then um so you your mom and the three of
you got to stay in the house
I assume since you yeah and
moved out yeah and then uh was it the
type of custody situation
where you'd see your dad like
every other weekend yeah like Tuesdays
Tuesdays Tuesdays and then on the
weekends okay and then
we would it was interesting because he
would take one of us oh interesting
uncertain like so my dad
and I would uh like you know it was my
Wednesday and we thursday thursday
because cheers we would
sit and watch cheers okay I remember I
remember this apartment this this
apartment behind a wendy's
like near downtown that's all being it's
all beautiful condos now
right but um yeah and we
would sit there and it was great like it
was sketch getting it
like walking up to it and
and then we would sit there and we
watched cheers and we watched growing
pains and like we watched
you know I just kind of those were the
fond memories you know
what an interesting way to
approach that I mean that is really cool
actually so the week was it
the weekday he would do one on
one and then the weekends take all three
of you yeah that's so
smart because it allowed him to
stay really have that quality time with
each of you and create that
bond yeah in a way and then
you still had that time together but also
what a difference you're
coming from this wonderful home
with your mom and then going to this
different environment in your dad's
apartment so that it's
like two different worlds yeah so I think
my dad was struggling to
figure it out and I think my mom
was always like you can have whatever you
want days wise and um it
was hard for him yeah you know
a lot of our a lot of our time spent
together was like let's just
go to the mall yeah he didn't
really know how to spend time with us
yeah you know I've got a lot
of shirts that you know that
you like making them all yeah right like
a little choccy yeah right
remember that like the little
puffy yeah oh my god iron on right in
front of you yeah I had one
that said el gato because my
dad used to call me el gato yeah like run
around and called himself
el gato so that's what he he
had one like that and uh and then um he
he loved the sail and he
had the sailboat and um he had
this line the line was only admirals or
assholes sit in uh the
stairwell which is why where I stood
all the time which is why I heard that so
one christmas I get a
shirt ironed on whatever
said admiral that's awesome yeah so
that's like a core memory that's core
memory yeah do you still
have the shirts I don't I don't have that
one I've got a few from growing up
actually um I have his
polo okay so probably the one thing I
have yeah yeah that's cool I
can totally picture what you're
saying like I can picture them all and I
can the Omni mall in downtown
Miami which is I don't think
still there but but yeah so then there
was like a merry-go-round and
it was like clockwork you'd go
there and eat play it was almost like you
weren't even you know I
mean it was we overwhelmed yeah
you just didn't know what to do with
three boys three boys all
spazzy as heck yeah yeah you know
yeah so did you get to the point where
you look forward to that
like all right I'm going to see
dad we're going to the mall and I'm
getting a shirt I liked the uh
one-on-ones yeah yeah just to be
with him yeah yeah 100 you know what's
cool though is like I played a lot of
sports he showed up at
every game that's what I was going to ask
you that was my next
question he was present it just
I think the parenting part was hard for
him yeah yeah our
relationships became unbelievable
and he was my best friend as soon as we
could have a beer together
yeah yeah that makes everything
change everything changed like when I
went to college it was too
bad right like you listened
to those yeah cat stevens type songs yes
and then he passed away when
you were 25 so you were just
just just finding your groove with him
yeah yeah that's so in
elementary school you mentioned
in elementary school did you do sports
through elementary school
middle school that time yeah
so it's fair to say that uh so we love
sports like all three of us
really played but um I spent
more of my time at the fields and those
guys like I have let's say the father
figures in my life were
coaches along the way and I really
believe that those each one of them
played roles in my life
different ways maybe not all of them but
there I could name certain
coaches along the way that
just had a massive impact on my life
that's cool what's right I
would live it I would live at the
field house Miami Shores is a really cool
town that way was it
baseball uh baseball up until the
day it turned into soccer soccer until
the day you know so it was
uh as ago it goes uh football
soccer baseball okay and
that was like your year like
to the day it stopped you start the next
one yeah and I mean and I
did overlaps like one team
was finishing and I would I would go to
another I would do two
practices a day okay two different
sports as they overlapped so you
completely immerse yourself in two
immersed now uh that
obviously was for a love of sports was it
also do you think like you
said you had father figures
there do you think it was a way of coping
I think so remember my
grandfather wasn't there either
yeah my grandfather had passed before so
I never got to meet him
yeah uh so there really wasn't
a father figure my dad was there very
present but um yeah I think
it was I think it's coaches
were you able to have um more intimate
conversations with your
coaches and you were with your dad
meaning sharing emotions feelings any of
that nope so it's just more
they were solid male figures
in your life and people you could look up
to and leaders yeah yeah
I'm not shy to tell someone
what's going on in my head or you know
share with folks so I always
reach I was always kind of like
reach out and whether it be school or
sports or whatever always
found myself around good adults
that yeah you know just kind of said hey
I'll help you out and then
how about with your teammates
was it like with all of your teams was it
like a family almost yeah yeah so
big parties and you know all the same
guys I'm still very close to
so many of them now very close
so two of my like two of my best friends
I've known since I was
eight and nine years old that's
awesome were your were your sports where
you kind of in football you
had the same guys then you go to
soccer and you have the same guys then
you go to baseball very
much season after season yeah
that's how Miami Shores is yeah yeah it
was it's the best town
now that's down to grow up
was this right would you say this is the
equivalent of like a wreck
yeah oh yeah and then did you do
any travel was travel thing there at that
time um we did some
travel there were a couple of
players that just kind of decided to
focus those guys got put on a
unique they would go to other
town like go down to kendall and play
with some better teams
soccer and those guys really
escalated those guys played in college
they're really good um I did
more high school okay that's
where I my my journey got more athletic
well I think for those of
us growing up though travel
wasn't like how it is now it wasn't it
was like you said it was
those few kids and now it's almost
it's reversed it is it you know it still
takes money no matter what
like even back then a couple
of my friends that got really good at
soccer like their parents were able to
afford them having some
private lessons on the side yeah yeah I
actually I remember this window where I
had a chance to play
I'm like a tweener birthday and so a
couple of my friends were on
the older side a couple of my
friends on the younger side so I had a
choice like do you want to
play with the 12s or the 13s
I remember that being a really hard
choice and going all right
I'll play with the 12s because
I had a few more friends even though I
could play with the 13s if I
would have gone to the 13s it
my level would have escalated because
they had a better coach and
they had a better everything
when's your birthday February okay is
there well I know that
they always are changing the
the birthdays I was always so I was a
tweener too but it was August for so I
could I did the same
thing yeah yeah so in elementary middle
school was it mainly sports were you
involved in anything
any other extra curriculars like clubs in
elementary and
elementary and middle school
elementary middle theater always my
theater okay okay so when
did you get involved in theater
um fairly young I think my mom took me to
go see Phantom of the Opera I love
Phantom of the Opera
fell in love love it Brian's even been
really in Broadway it's
the very first one I've seen
yeah I saw it down in Miami did I've seen
okay so this is a funny
story yeah for one of our
anniversaries we went over the Phantom of
the Opera on Broadway I I
drug him to or dragged whatever
is to Phantom of the Opera yeah maybe I
drove and dragged right so
we want we go through the
you know the first half or whatever and
then there's the
intermission right so we get the
intermission starts where the lights go
on and he gets up to leave
and I'm like like leave for good
and I said no it's just intermission and
very loudly and his very
deep voice goes you mean
there's more and it echoed through the
whole place people turn and it turned
around and looked at us
and I was like oh that was the only time
I did that with him really but he did see
all of Phantom of the Opera I can't
believe you don't remember I do now that
you say that yeah I remember I I think
you blocked it out yeah I wasn't hooked
no you weren't as hooked as I was yeah so
you saw Phantom of the Opera my mom had
me in that stuff well actually it was
funny because I remember I mean I was
playing football either seventh eighth
grade I remember going from football
practice to it and I thought I was gonna
fall asleep like I was fighting it so
that I was fighting
it and then I was like
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
it's amazing I had been doing some simple
church like theater before that okay
whatever okay it wasn't until um until I
got in high school that I got really
immersed in it okay so what an
interesting existence for you oh yeah
because you're athletic and the jock
quote unquote yeah captain of the
football team okay cat okay okay yeah
small school don't get
me wrong okay okay so you
get to high school and you're doing high
school sports and high school theater
both of those things require a lot of
commitment on top of academics yep did
you work too no okay so that summers okay
okay my dad kind of had that statement
that it was always like you're either
gonna be in school like you're gonna do
these extracurriculars are you gonna work
those your choices yeah well those
extracurriculars especially doing theater
and academics would take up and and
athletics would take up
everything if you want to even try to get
some sleep in there somewhere it was
crazy so that's my question though is I
don't know how it was set up but I would
have pictured theater practice and
athletic practice would have been around
the same time after school it was complex
and I had some amazing teachers and
coaches that worked with me that's
amazing that is awesome yeah so cuz was
theater year-round practicing no more in
some respects but it
was more play-based to
okay so it's the real work in theater for
me at least was at the play you could
take it as a class mm-hmm and so I would
do that but then but then also when we're
in a play yeah a lot of attention so what
did you lean into in theater like were
you singing were you dancing were you you
know in high school it was all straight
plays okay I can't sing okay although
there's a funny story about that but but
I can't so anyway I did
all straight plays a really
enjoyed it I had a great teacher named
Sandy Lewis who was just absolutely
spectacular woman and and she was great
like so I'd spent so much time even my
senior year she created a class for me
and called directing and I just got to
direct her so I would go to the middle
school class then I got to direct a
middle school play it was just special it
was really cool experience growing up
that's awesome those types of teachers
and they they they hooked me up so so
what kind of plays do you remember what
place you did we didn't mash
Jekyll and Hyde yeah that one that's cool
that's one of Brian's favorite shows yeah
well doing the play was yeah yeah just a
lot of like one acts and and shoebucks
stuff very cool and that was mainly high
school yeah okay and then you were the
captain of the football team the soccer
team so it sounds like you
were a leader on the athletic
side were you also leader in the theater
side too you know I don't think so I was
courageous enough to hop into whatever
they wanted to hop into but but I wasn't
really a leader per se there were some
people that just you could tell loved it
I love it yeah but like there's some
people I have a feeling there you were
probably had some leadership qualities
because of crossing over from sports
right and you were the captain of those
teams so then you had to been somewhat of
a novelty in some ways in that we've got
this athlete coming over to theater
that's not totally common so you probably
had a natural leadership maybe not I
don't know prescribed I guess yeah I mean
I've had some teachers call it that at
this school I mean there was a guidance
counselor who who had said like there
were a couple things she's like you're
just a natural born leader yeah remember
that and it and it stayed with me you
know core memory because I
you know it's weird I I was in I was in
like a lot of the honors classes so I
would spend a lot of time with really
tacky yeah nerdy guys which is great you
know and I could I could get along with
those guys I'm fairly gregarious I can
get along with a lot of different people
and so I would hang out with them but
then I'd go to football practice and hang
it out with all my jock buddies and then
I'd go to theater and hang out with all
the theater people and I I just think
that's the way I guess for me that was
easy because I was like this is great you
just yeah who cares they're all different
but it doesn't matter
yeah and each one of them has something
special and fun and enjoyable and I loved
my jock friends for who they were yeah
and I love the theater people for who
they were and just great friends on all
sides of it but back then and I think you
I don't know about now if it's that way
and I don't know if it was like this at
your school it wasn't mine it was very
clicky yeah and there were groups and it
definitely would have taken a special
person to float the way
you did and be accepted
and not ostracized by one of the groups
or judge I I think yes and I found myself
able to break through that piece of it
but I think the deep relationships were a
little bit more on the sports side okay
you know like where so those people like
oh yeah he's like you know he's cool come
on in he's fine but then there's a gate
do you know what I mean yes so
there's a big gate like there's the wall
okay and no one's allowed in but you
cross through the wall yeah that's okay
yeah then there's another private room
and I wasn't invited into the private
room right I also made a choice in high
school I think because of this guidance
counselor you know driving me in this in
this which was we created an organization
called leaders educating about drugs lead
so I ran that in high school which is
hysterically ironic because I got it once
I got out of high school it's like what
are these things right well what
besides the leadership being inspired by
the leadership aspect of it what drew you
to focus on drugs I think that was uh you
know I think school kind of guided that
more than I was like I'm gonna be this
guy I just think I was making teachers
happy okay you know what I mean I really
do I think that's core too it was like
hey I love this teacher hey they think
this is great okay okay I'll do that and
that kept me out of a couple circles
right right now of course
people who are still like hey man he's
cool yeah except we're gonna close the
door now right like the narc is here and
it wasn't an arc like I was like listen I
don't care if you do it like I really
wasn't but you know wasn't like I don't
care if you do it like I'm cool it's not
my thing yeah but I didn't care if you
did it however it was really designed
like the the whole premise of the thing
was just to educate better yeah about
there are dangers right and
it wasn't this like full-on
Nancy Reagan like yeah it was more just
about education which I think you know
when you go to a small private school uh
drug dealers are smart right they're
businessmen they they know where the
money is so you actually have I think a
lot of it comes to the smaller private
schools more so than the best drugs are
in all private schools 100% if you're
good at business you go to where the
highest paying customers we didn't
establish that so you were in a small
private high school yeah small private
high school was your
scholarship and middle schools private as
well no so I went to public school for
elementary okay and then Catholic school
for for for three years okay and then I
jumped to the private school for like
seventh through twelve and you said you
got a scholarship yeah like the
Presbyterian Church helped out and then
there was like some scholarship money my
mom couldn't afford to send me that so I
we we were able to find money through the
church and through the school what was
the motivation of
wanting to go to that school
mom did you send mom's like let's get you
the best school we can get no just me
what what do you why are you why just you
do you know um you know I don't uh I
don't have a clear answer on it I just
think that uh I was I think my mom knew
that I I would excel you were the
overachiever out of the three yeah maybe
that's the way to say it were you people
please but my younger brother it got more
it got tricky so Miami Shore's got
a lot of people in every district and
then like what happens your choices were
Miami Shore's elementary was great
whatever I rode my bike school that's the
majority of my life right yeah ride my
bike school stop at grandma's Nana's on
the way home have a cookie you know like
doo doo doo doo my homework yeah it was
yeah it was amazing like when you really
think about it yeah it's super nice my
buddy who lives six streets down would
pick me up in his and his prelude
I was like late every time he's like dude
you're killing me he's still one of my
best buds you know it's so beautiful it's
like I know so many people from this town
who are all still really close in fact my
wife's from the town okay yeah and I know
friends whose wives are from this town
okay so I get okay Miami Shore's has that
cool vibe too that's cool yeah really
growing up in Miami Shore's there's like
a Facebook page what are it's what are
the demographics of Miami Shore's is it
is the Cuban Italian
for the most part it was
I mean primarily Irish Catholic Irish
Catholic um I think Joe Robbie I don't
know this but like Joe Robbie lived in
Miami Shores okay and then he helped
build when he was building jirabi like a
lot of construction guys from the town
yeah okay and so and he owned the
dolphins okay yeah and so anyway yeah
Irish Catholic there some Italian but but
definitely the Catholic Church was strong
like like the Catholic Church of Miami
Shore's pretty strong
church so you said though a
district for your little brother so and
so what happened was like my choice was
this new magnet program school mm-hmm and
it was tough it was it was a rough place
to go so I think that if you really look
at it like my mom's like okay let's send
him to the Catholic Church let's see then
my parents got divorced my dad was
Catholic my mom was Presbyterian yeah so
it's really funny when the divorce
happened I would go to Presbyterian
Church on Sunday with my
mom and then get in my bike
drive to the Catholic Church and put an
envelope with money into the giving box
to prove I was there to tie it yeah that
was a tie yes but to prove I was yeah
yeah yeah yeah so it was really funny
like that was my Sunday were you were you
covering for the whole family the tithing
yeah yeah yeah yeah cuz my older brother
went there too okay and then he went to
North Miami High so he ended up going to
the local high school oh wait I think
I know what you're saying so you guys
were going to school at the time at
Catholic school yeah that was oh yeah so
we are kids went to Catholic school and
yeah you have to prove you were there I
see what you're saying yeah church you
mean yeah yeah so one way or another you
were there you're gonna purchase money in
that envelope time you're golden you're
good so you would go to church so you
went to you were raised Presbyterian it
sounds like yeah so I
always joke I went from
religion by fear to religion by service
oh my god so and that was that pretty
much every Sunday yeah so you would do
that and then get on your bike and go
take care of the Catholic Church yeah
you're so interesting okay but you also
got a lot of good Catholic values at
school of course right yeah class yeah
yeah and I was so I was I was baptized
Catholic I was confirmed Presbyterian
interesting okay so you
went through the whole
your first communion Catholic yes okay so
you were baptized Catholic first
communion Catholic then reconciliation
probably during school time that's around
the same yeah you would have if you were
first communion you went through
reconciliation yeah there's our dogs that
was um yeah well see for our kids first
first communion was second grade and
and reconciliation was I think first
grade or third grade so yeah okay so you
did the first three sacraments of
Catholicism baptism yes reconciliation
communion but but then for confirmation
you didn't finish it out you went with
Presbyterian and I didn't even know they
did yeah so what are you because you
could it's like dual citizenship I guess
the way the way what am I I
believe in God yeah I pray
yeah I'm not a great churchgoer yes you
have dual citizenship and do church in
religion yeah you can you kind of dabbled
in both I think that's so fascinating
okay so um you said you were height your
high achiever it's obvious you were high
achiever were you also people-pleaser
would you say yeah totally and would you
say you walked on eggshells no okay so
you were a
people-pleaser high achiever but
you you weren't nervous about being like
that if that makes sense you weren't
walking on eggshells making sure kind of
kind of trying to read the adults before
you act to kind of yeah every now and
every now and again I would get careful
my soap like my mom like five of my mom's
good friends worked at the school okay my
dad dated the dean of students like it
every now it's like one of
my like my best friend Mike
he'll do this whole time we would be in
school and when my dad was dating the
Dean of students he'd be like Joe yeah we
can do anything like he literally he took
advantage of this idea that we walked on
water because he was like a fourth son to
my dad and he took advantage of the walk
on water not that we I mean we're good
kids like we didn't really break that
many rules yeah so broke simple right you
know like nothing kid shit kid shit yeah
and and there were you know in Miami
stores there were other kids doing
worship so yeah you know it's easy to
stay off the radar when you were in
partying no and like even my my you're so
funny like my mom used to have this rule
in high school she would be like you're
allowed to go out but you gotta wake me
up when you come home so I know that you
were in the house before yeah before
curfew and so I would go out and I'd come
home late army crawl into her bedroom and
set the clock back no way totally wake
her up she'd look at the clock got it and
then army crawl out and then army crawl
back in and reset the clock to the right
time yeah was this a digital or like yeah
yeah the red ones the brown the brown you
know talking about the wood exactly what
it was that is so Gen X I do that is so
great I remember that so much I used to
do that so often that's brilliant yeah
that really that I love that that's
genius did she know that before now set
it on this podcast yes okay I've told her
at a like a Thanksgiving dinner we've had
some fun fun stories wine yeah okay so
high school so you're busy you're busy
you're doing all these things great for
me okay your world though is it sounds
like it's pretty small there oh you're
doing all this stuff but it's a small
world you're living in super super
interesting Brian because
you know you you're in Miami yeah I had
friends going down to South Beach this is
it but my like my I was more of a home
and I don't know if you'd call it a
homebody but like I stayed in the shores
yeah sure is safe to me right I think
that I married my wife from the area like
I I do believe that one home thing I've
thought about this like because you made
someone who's been in like six homes in
their journey and they've got weird
connection issues right
like they don't you know like there's
something fragile do like I have a friend
who's had so many homes yes it just was
what it was right and they struggle to
connect whereas me I'm like this this is
perfect in fact my neighborhood and my
wife and I were looking for the place we
wanted to live the neighborhood we found
is like everyone walks their dog everyone
is like in there riding their bike
everybody weighs to each other it's a
small little microcosm of my shores and
that's like it's so hard to come by in
yes in this area of the
country South Florida yeah
well it's the reason we picked the
neighborhood we're in yeah I'm not gonna
say the name of the neighborhood on the
podcast but this neighborhood we're in is
the closest you can get to 1950s living
as far as walk the neighborhood any time
of the day it's very it's very much that
Northeast vibe if that Northeast small
town vibe sure sure so it is hard to find
down here so it sounds like you grew up
in a small town in Miami yeah absolutely
in a single house very small town and
even though though there was the chaos of
a divorce and you went through that
typical like divorce kid and there's shit
that went with that you know but you you
had the stability of your town your home
your coaches your teachers yeah your
activities and it sounds like that helped
balance out the trauma that you also
would have gone through with the divorce
because no matter what no matter how good
things are that's
still traumatic event for
I'm a child of divorce I know I'm talking
about I'm just out of like three or four
divorces I think so it's it's wonderful
you had that anchor yeah of the
functionality to go with the dysfunction
that would have just naturally resulted
from divorce yeah my brothers
weren't as active and I think
it was hard wrong yeah no that makes
sense you know by the way that might have
just been that might have just been the
way I dealt is I surround myself in
groups yeah you know and because I either
developed that over time you know team
sports is to me one of the most wonderful
things you can do to your kids like team
sports is great and you learn so much by
the way acting is team sports
absolutely it's incredible yeah I mean if
you've ever sat in a green room or gone
to the practices and the amount of
support practice trial and error things
like that that you need in teams in
acting is in credit and trust trust trust
is real trust yeah yeah I talked about
that today with my team yeah that
reference yeah acting yeah because in
acting you're also being very vulnerable
and so it's different than the kind of
trust on a sports team because that's
trust too yeah but it's very different
so it sounds like you were insulated with
these activities right that's why I
always felt like a book were tone feels
like it's 200 miles away yeah I mean I
didn't do the South Beach thing yeah much
I really didn't like oh did you go to
this and this is like I guess I'm kind of
a dork I didn't go to that many of those
things and well and you were living a
fairly responsible life for a teenager
even though you were doing the army crawl
and change in the clock but you weren't
out there the real trouble I got into is
like we egged a car you know turns out
it was an undercover cop guard yeah he
showed up at that like that kind of stuff
and so you know we are fair share of
oopses but yeah yeah but mom never really
I don't think mom ever worried yeah yeah
that's amazing that's amazing so I'm
getting towards mid end of high school
did you were you already thinking about
college and where you wanted to go I'm
not where I wanted to go too much but I
was definitely thinking about college it
was kind of like I qualified for the
Florida undergraduate scholars program I
think is what it was called
at the time so state schools were always
an option I applied to Tulane was the
only other school I don't even know why
really I've never never really thought
like how did Tulane end up in my list but
at my school they had you know pretty
good a really good actually not a pretty
good a really good college guidance
counselor who helped you through things
and maybe that's where we ended up with
it and then I got a couple of a couple
letters more than anything else of like
interest for college football but I was
just super burnt out
okay it's so weird playing being able to
play all three sports which is like the
good and the bad is like is like I was
pretty good at all of them because I
didn't focus wasn't great at any of them
okay okay and so I loved soccer but you
are either born with gifts in your feet
or you're not right it's just as that way
and I was and I was pretty darn good but
you know not necessarily like that next
level because you have to play it against
people that are just different
yeah so football was what I was best at
and and I often think like what would
happen if I would have gone to a small
school in North Carolina on a football
scholarship but ultimately I couldn't
afford Tulane that was not a there's no
happening and it was like had four or
five good friends all going to Florida
and said sign me up when I have a
question on this when today kids playing
sports have they have to specialize down
here and it drives me crazy because they
don't they can't do the
three sports they can to a
certain point but then the travel team
set in the kids who specialize come back
and just wreck everybody you know if in
rec was it like that when you were grown
up was it was it specialized were you
forced to pick something earlier doesn't
sound like it it's not like you could
play but like three sports here's reality
even though even though I didn't
specialize it was still top 10% of my
team yeah so there was half there was
half there was yeah I'm
just Netflix so there was
happy to have good eye hand coordination
fast yeah you know those types of things
and and in football I love hitting people
it was like reckless I I won't use the
nickname because it'll be you know
whatever but like I had a nickname like
it started when I was like seven years
old and stuck with me and like it was
just because I was a reckless you know
what position did you play in football I
played sort of running back receiver you
know and then but I love playing more
safety and linebacker
I was gonna say I could picture you as a
safety just coming up and popping someone
just mowing like I called like we had a
me and this other guy called the stick
them and pick them you know and he would
go get interceptions I would just read
people that's hilarious I don't know why
but like growing up playing football my
whole life and it's some great coaches
like they just said this is how you hit
people and this is and and and they said
and it's safer to do it that way and
that's all I needed to know so for me I
was always about applying the force
yeah you know yeah like the one time I
did it under 85s we had some coaches and
I hit this guy on the side as a whole
place lit up and I was like that's all
that was the only affirmation I needed
and ever since then it just you know it
was simple to me like that that was the
easy like this just go hit people it's
great and I felt protected I got pads on
yeah yeah yeah and you know it's crazy
not one injury that's amazing not even a
concussion well I don't know about that
yeah I know we don't talk about that so I
had my one game I got hit in the back and
then hit across the helmet and my jaw
dislocated like this and I'm like I come
to the sidelines and you know you're a
small school we only had like 25 kids on
the team I went I played I played
receiver or you know receiver or running
back except when the quarterback got hurt
then I played quarterback I played
full-time defense I kicked
It's a special team.
Punted, returned kicks,
returned punts, never
once left the field.
Wow. Never once.
Wow. And so I get hit
and I come to the sideline, I'm like,
oh my God, they're hurting.
And they're like, what?
Here, sit down.
And there was this
doctor came down off the bench
and he's like, let me look at you.
And he just ran right back into place,
smacked me on my ass and I
went right back out there.
That's hilarious.
Hilarious, my mom and I went
like the next couple of days
and I'm like, mom, I'm not really,
it's not all together, you know?
But that was it.
And like, you know?
Did you ever go to a
doctor and have it checked out?
Yeah, we did, yeah, that seems okay.
My mom was like, Jen is for God's sakes,
my grandfather was a dentist.
That's awesome.
That is so Gen X too.
No one cared, yeah.
Oh no. Get back out there.
Are you kidding, now they call an
ambulance or something.
Back then we had the smelling salts too.
Yeah, we did. The concussion.
You're like, I'm back in.
I can't see straight.
Yeah. Oh, I'm good.
Yeah, I'm good.
Yeah. Yeah.
So okay. For sure.
And I played against some
guys that played on Sundays
and they were just built bigger.
So you could throw your body at someone
and exert force until physics wins.
And I ran into a knee
once that just was like,
where am I right now?
So there's definitely a few.
I was gonna say, that
sounds like a little--
There's a few brain
cells that are no longer.
You would ring your, I got my bell.
I got your bell, yeah.
It's a whole thing, like
it's totally different.
So our son does travel across
and even playing for the school,
you have to sign all these things
and he has to watch a video
about, it's totally different.
Well, they do pre-season tests.
They do all of it.
Did you know about that?
That whole protocol for concussion?
No. Oh yeah.
You do a test in the
beginning, you answer questions.
And then if you think you've got concuss,
you have to answer the same questions.
And if your answers deviate or the
timing's off too much,
it's pretty good actually.
Smart. Yeah, it's smart.
I like that process.
No, no, it's good. Data-driven.
Yeah. 100%.
Yeah, that's what appeals to me.
This is data-driven.
Hey, data-driven stuff makes me, right?
Okay, so as far as college though,
I assume because your
grandmother and your mom
were so progressive in
that thought process,
college was discussed in your home,
it was assumed you were going to college.
Oh, 100%. Okay, so that's cool.
So, and you had a
great guidance counselor,
which is unusual even for
that time, so that's awesome.
So you ended up going to UF?
Yeah.
And did your brother and
little brother go to college too?
Older brother, no.
He actually came up to
that area and went to,
what is the
community college,
Santa Fe Community College,
and then was studying
to be a firefighter,
that didn't work out.
And then my younger brother, no.
His journey was just a little different.
Yeah. He has since,
he says in Saint Pete,
went to Saint Pete College
and got a degree, but it
wasn't like high school
and then big break.
Okay, so out of the three,
you were the traditional--
Out of the three, for four
years in and out, bye-bye.
I wondered, it just got
me thinking, is the age,
and when your parents got divorced,
your older brother
was a little bit older,
little different
experience, then you got you,
then you got the
younger one, little different.
Do you think that played in?
Totally. Yeah.
I think about that, but I,
so my younger brother
had a weird, weird thing
because my mom was like, I
don't wanna send him to that.
School we were talking
about, she sent him to Palm Beach
to live with my aunt and
uncle, her aunt and uncle,
actually, so that was
kinda like my brother's,
our great aunt and uncle.
Okay.
They took care of him for like two years
and he went to school up
there, two, three years.
And then, like poor guy, man.
The journey was
tough, he was so resilient.
He was like, he's just got
this beautiful way about him.
You know, he's like, yeah.
But, and then she moved like--
Out of the house.
Out of the house and he's,
like for his sophomore year,
he's gotta move to
like middle of nowhere,
North Tampa, like country.
Fight net. Wow.
Fight net, you know, and like that was,
I think that was hard, really hard.
You talk about like
not fitting in at all.
It's different over there.
Totally, right?
And they are immediately like harsh.
Yeah.
Harsh and pick on and all
this and like, you know,
anything that he would
do that would have been,
let's say a cool kind of
mannerism or whatever here
was just crushed there.
He ended up like two years there
and then coming back to my dad.
But like, I'm coming
back staying with my dad,
but I'm like separated
from all this because--
You were in college, right?
I'm in college.
And the weird part is you
don't have a home to go home to.
Yeah.
I don't know, I'm going
to like Newport, Ritchie.
Oh, true, true.
Middle of nowhere, West Florida.
When did she sell, was
it your freshman year?
She sold the, literally,
pack the car, pack the house,
drive to the new home,
which is because she got a
job at this school system.
Unload the home, love you, college.
Okay. Like days.
What a transition for you, so--
So I had nowhere to come home to.
But also just-- And my
dad had a one bedroom.
Yeah.
So it's not like, my dad had
this one bedroom apartment,
it was like two twin beds.
Well, what's so
interesting about that timing is,
you had a couple things going on,
because graduating from
high school is a big deal.
And then getting
ready, did you do that thing
that Florida kids do where
you go the summer session?
No. Okay.
So you had your summer
to kind of enjoy work,
being in Miami Shores,
but knowing that you're gonna be moving.
So you're having a transition of leaving
your childhood home,
your childhood friends,
everything you've known.
So those are two big things,
you're leaving and
you're going to college.
And then go to the new place,
and then continue on to Gainesville.
It's a lot going on there.
That's a lot.
My mom wanted us to come home and visit.
There's nothing here.
Well, yeah, because a lot of times also
that first Thanksgiving or freshman year,
when you come home, you get together
with all your friends from high school.
It's all about your
friends when you first came home.
Yeah. Didn't know a soul.
So that was a blow for you,
and then your little brother's going
through his own thing,
and I'm sure your older brother
was going through his own thing.
Do you think that having,
because also that stability
that you had insulated yourself with
to help you cope with everything
you'd been going
through with the divorce,
that was gone now?
So now you have this
new experience at UF.
Would you say that you then
created a whole
installation there with friends
and a life there? Yeah, totally.
I mean, it's crazy, but three of my
closest friends at UF
were from my high school.
That's awesome.
Yeah, so I-- So that
kind of came with you.
Yeah, totally.
It kind of came with you,
that comfort came with you.
So did you live with them in the dorms?
I lived with, not my first semester,
my second semester, I lived
with one of them in the dorms.
Oh, so you changed dorms mid-year?
No, I did.
I literally moved next
door, me and my roommate.
Okay. We need to get along.
We're gonna get along. It was okay.
I mean, we ended up
being fraternity brothers,
but we still didn't get along that well.
So you didn't know that. It wasn't a fun
living situation. Yeah.
You can be friends with someone,
but not be able to live with them.
Yeah, totally. You
don't know it at the time.
You don't, you don't. Well, but yeah.
So you moved in with someone
first semester. Yeah.
Didn't work out. Next door to my,
to three buds from high school,
who did a threesome in there,
and then had it like a loft put in
and like did some really cool thing.
And then two of them were like,
"Hey," and one of them's dad was like,
"Hey, I bought you a house.
"You'll go there."
And so they're like, "Later."
And my one buddy's like,
"I can't afford to pay rent or anything."
Yeah. So he's like,
"You wanna move in with me?"
And so they had this decked out.
Yeah, it was great.
That's amazing they could leave.
I know- And that was a fun
other half of the first year.
I'm sure. Like we had a great,
me and my buddy, we had a great time.
I'm sure. I'm sure.
And the fact they could leave though,
because I think at FSU, you have to live.
Maybe not anymore. I know, I know.
There used to be, well, we
went to college, you did.
No. You had to live in the dorms.
I think it was one semester.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that was the-
You had to at least
do something like that.
Okay, so you're at UF and second
semester's looking good.
Yeah, it's enjoyable. Yeah, yeah.
And then during the holidays,
you'd go home to this new town.
Yeah, summers, yeah.
And summers. Holidays for the new town.
I made one friend that lived generally,
but it was still like 40
minute drive from my mom's.
It was, it was, it was
tough. And then the summers.
Who were you staying in
Gainesville in the summer?
Staying in Gainesville for you.
My first, my freshman year summer,
I came down and I lived with my dad.
And he's like tiny
apartment in the middle of nowhere.
And that was funny, you know, that place.
And we'd play racquetball.
That was like what we would, we like,
we'd go to the racquetball courts,
we'd play a lot of racquetball,
and then I'd go hang out
with a bunch of buddies.
We'd play poker, you know,
three or four nights a week,
go out occasionally, but
no one really had any money.
Yeah. You know?
So you're kind of working, scraping
together, what have you.
But, you know, we all came
from working class families
that, you know, there wasn't extra.
So you didn't work through high school
because of the extracurriculars.
What was your first job?
A summer job being a camp
counselor was my first job.
And that was in Miami Shores?
Yeah, for the church.
Okay, and then when you
came back down that summer
and lived with your
dad, did you work then?
Yes, so I got a job at
the hospital in admissions.
What's funny is my
senior year is the funny job.
The most interesting job I think was just
before my senior year.
Okay, so I didn't share this part,
it was really interesting.
My mom, being a dental hygienist,
had realized that she could, excuse me,
when she was a teacher, she
still was a dental hygienist,
and she realized she
could, in the summers,
go to Juneau, Alaska
and get paid a ransom
to be a dental hygienist.
So she left her boys.
How old were you guys?
Maybe 18, 16, and then
she took the youngest.
So your little brother also went to
Alaska for a summer?
Yeah, to see the best.
Where did you stay then?
Can we have your house?
She left us in the house.
Way through parties.
So this is your
sophomore, your sophomore?
I think it was junior and senior.
If I try to piece together,
remember how we said I can't put the
gates to everything?
It gets me mad, to be honest.
Yeah, 16 would be
like beginning in junior,
your February.
Did you stop your
anti-drug crusade at that point
to have the parties?
Well, let's put it this way.
I was educating and being educated,
but I still really, I still did not smoke
until I got to college.
Not once, until I got to college.
And I was surrounded
by people who were like,
yeah, totally, and my
brother liked to throw the parties.
Back then, half the
kids from Miami Shores
went to one high school,
the other went to the other high school,
there were fights or fights in my lawn.
One of my best
friends, his dad came over,
he was like, oh, rah,
rah, rah, rah, like my dad.
My dad was supposed to watch us,
but my dad's 20 minutes
up, down the road, or 25.
You know, it was hysterical.
The palace.
So my buddy calls it the palace.
The palace.
You're housekeeping the palace.
Who wouldn't wanna hang out there?
It wasn't like that scene,
you see "16 Candles", the movie,
where they have the party at the house,
do you know what I'm talking about?
They were, I didn't go that bad.
Like it was controlled,
but there were a couple that were like,
wow, there's a lot of people.
We had this really cool
deck off the second floor,
with a little, like what was
supposed to be a storage shed,
which I'm sure became
like the smoker shed,
which is really breaks my heart,
because like if there's one place I'd
like to have smoked,
it would have been there.
You know, like everyone else did, right?
But you know, it was a great party house.
And yeah, so here's, this was funny.
So I started dating this girl,
like my senior year and over the summer.
We're in high school still, right?
Yeah, so this is like, I
guess this is junior to senior.
I'm dating this girl,
my mom comes home from,
this is like a little core memory,
and my mom comes home and she's over.
Wait, it was the Alaska?
Yeah, yeah, so my mom comes home from--
Did you know she was coming?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it wasn't a surprise.
I just, for the last
month and a half, two months,
she was over in my house, in my room.
Are you kidding me?
At that age to have an empty bedroom,
it's like a dream.
Yeah.
And no sneaking.
A dream and you're like, are
you out of your mind, lady?
Yeah.
Right?
Oh, well for--
For my mom?
Yeah, for sure.
Totally.
I think she really, I think she trusted
I would do the right thing, and I did.
Morgan, I have no idea,
but like me, it was like--
Why wouldn't she though?
You were like this amazing, high
achieving kid, you know, so--
That didn't break a lot
of rules and all that.
Yeah, she didn't know
about the army crawl then.
Yeah, yeah.
She did not.
Pre-army crawl.
Which still wasn't, like all I was doing
was going out and hanging out with buds.
I wasn't really doing a
ton of bad stuff, right?
She wasn't willing to not trust you
and supposedly your
dad was gonna watch you,
quote unquote.
Correct.
So yeah.
He's there for emergencies, right?
Yeah, yeah.
But I'll never forget this,
because the girl's
overhanging out and I get this, like,
Gregory!
Oh, with the full name.
What is happening, right?
And I go, what's up,
mom, what's going on?
She's like, you will not have guests
to the female persuasion in my house.
And I was like, oh, so now there's rules?
Okay, sorry.
Like, you know, like, I always want it.
The way I looked at it
is my mom had it tough.
You know, she's a single mom.
Both my brothers struggled in school.
And so she worked tirelessly to,
she's like, she's doing
the Dunlohi-Genis thing
to make enough money to make ends meet.
My dad at the time,
still struggling, right?
And she's gotta work so hard
with both of them every
day on their homework.
Yeah.
They're both experimenting with Ritalin,
you know, like the
school, you know what I mean?
Like, there's a lot going on, right?
You know, and she's
just surviving, you know?
She's, and I guess I, I don't know,
I'm like, I felt like I had to help her.
You know, and I wasn't helping.
It was just like, because I
don't really think I helped.
I just wasn't ever gonna be a burden.
No, you took that role, right?
And typically that happens,
especially in those situations
when one of the kids is
gonna take the compliant role,
the people pleasing
role and the helping role
and that you took it.
Yeah, I did not help for the homework.
I did homework on my own.
Everything was like, it was just...
No, but you know, I always say this.
Sometimes the compliant kids
are the ones you need to watch
because everyone assumes they're fine
and a lot of times they aren't.
And then there's things
that don't get dealt with
for the compliant kid,
that the compliant kid,
as they get older, face and deal with,
but the compliant kid is
bearing shit to be compliant.
And so I always tell people
check on your compliant kids
because those are the ones sometimes
that are in the most
danger mental health wise.
Wow.
So, and I'm not saying
that was your situation.
No, it's interesting,
because it's certainly been...
Well, once mom goes to
Alaska, it's party time.
Yeah, exactly,
exactly. Comes to the palace.
But it makes sense.
You know what's funny is, is like,
I didn't necessarily wanna throw parties.
I just wanted to have
little get togethers.
My brother wanted to throw parties.
You know what I mean?
I was just kinda like, we
can do anything we want.
Come hang out here.
But I just wasn't really into drugs,
barely into drinking.
I mean, I was a total
idiot drinking wise.
I'd be like, yeah, shot,
shot, shot, shot, yeah.
Throw up.
Like, how cool is that?
And then I'm laying on the
ground, like you're cool.
And then I'm wrecked
for the entire next day.
So like, I wasn't very cool that way.
I just couldn't handle my alcohol.
I didn't know how to
just, my dad would be like,
dude, it's not a race, you idiot.
You know?
He's like, what are we doing?
Right, and it was like,
right to the cliff, fall off.
So anyway, I was just mellow.
But for you, it was
also access to have girls,
or a girl over. Totally.
So that was probably
the biggest highlight
of that whole song.
I mean, sure, the little bit
of exposure to the drinking
or whatever, the people around, but...
100%.
For a teenage boy who has
a consistent girlfriend,
like having access to a bed is like, it.
That's it, right there.
So that's funny
though, but you know, listen,
you went to church every Sunday.
I'm not surprised she came.
Not when she wasn't there.
Not when she was in Alaska.
But when she showed up,
that was probably on her mind.
Like, you're going
against some things there.
What's interesting, just the sidebars,
you were more of the compliant people
pleaser for your mom,
but once it sounds like when
you were in school and sports,
you didn't have to play that role.
So it's more at the home, it seems like.
That's interesting.
And because at the
school, my mom was dialed in,
there was still some not
gonna be disruptive, right?
No, he was, yeah.
There was like a senior prank, I'm like,
I don't need to be part of that.
Yeah, I think he was
still doing that at school.
Very much, I think very much.
And high achieving,
captain, and doing all the things.
And yeah, no, I think
that went into school too.
Oh man, I had some
coaches that, you know,
that like, because they
played that father figure role,
like all I wanted to do is
make them happy and proud
and this and that, and you know what?
And then when it comes full circle,
so there's one coach, a
defensive coach in my high school
and he and I got to know
each other really well.
And unfortunately, recently passed.
And man, we would sit there,
cause I was a senior, I kind of knew,
like I was cerebral
enough that I understood
how the game was going.
So I'm like, why don't we do this?
Why don't we do this?
So we would sit and talk about it, right?
And he'd be like, why is that guy a wuss?
I'm like, I don't know.
Like, what do you want me to do?
Coaches, they're a bunch
of private school kids.
Like, you know what I mean?
Because he drives a Porsche to school,
like what are we gonna do?
Like, you want me to hit him?
I'll hit him, but it's gonna
cry and walk off the field.
And we would laugh about it
and we'd have a great time.
And then, you know, he gave a speech,
you know, like sort of the awards banquet
and these things I remember.
And, you know, it impacted me.
He goes, if you gave me 11 players,
if you gave me 11
players that were all like one,
I would take him.
And then he also said, you know,
he goes, it's not the size of the line
and the size of the fight and the line.
And yeah, I mean that, you know,
just people believing in me,
like someone believing in me meant a lot.
Yeah. Especially in high school.
Yeah, no, it makes sense.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah.
How did you balance
navigating that path through high school
in a private school
where there was probably
a lot of wealth?
Yeah, a lot of wealth.
By the way, it might
have given me some drive.
Okay, to kind of prove yourself?
No, like, holy shit.
I can live like this.
You want that? This is what's possible.
Okay. Yeah.
Okay.
So were you ever viewed,
did you ever deal with any stigma after--
The Broke Kid, Scholarship Kid?
Yes. Yeah, there was once,
I remember, and I
don't think it had to do
with Scholarship Kid, but it kind of did,
in that you had a lot
of kids who had maids
and nannies and all that.
My mom went through
this phase, she's like,
"You boys will now do your own laundry."
It was one of those.
We had like, she was
cool about certain rules,
but if she did the
laundry, you had to fold it,
and we didn't fold it, she's like,
"Now you do your own laundry."
Well, what you learn as a kid is that
if you leave your laundry wet,
for a long time, it stinks.
Yeah. And I went through a phase
where my clothes
reaped, and I remember like,
the abuse I took.
I mean, I had hand-me-downs.
Yeah.
You know, all that stuff,
and so I definitely took some abuse,
but there were also some
other kids in the school
that didn't have money
too, and it was okay,
but by the way, I also had some great
friends who had money.
Yeah.
And I just learned to
get along with them.
Right. You know, but I went to,
went to sleepovers on Indian Creek,
which is where Tom Brady and Jeff Bezos
and all those guys live now, right?
And you're like, "Okay."
So this is interesting. This is a level.
This is a level.
Sometimes, and I really do believe this,
I think some people are
limited by what they see.
In fact, like, you know,
it's like your
imagination can't create it.
Even if you see it on Instagram,
whatever, like in social.
Like you can't see it, but
if you've gone into a home
that looks that beautiful, you can go,
"How do I get this?"
Yeah. Right?
Now I was always gonna do it ethically
and this, that, and the
next, but it was always like,
"How do I get the house on the hill?"
Yeah. And you see it, right?
And you're like, "Wow,
okay, so I need to work hard."
It's exposure.
Yeah, and it was always like,
once I hit a limit in
anything I was doing,
I was like, "Well, what's next?"
Like, "How do I?"
So I do think it added
some drive, for sure.
It rooted into, it rooted.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
wanted it, if you will.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so
there were pros and cons
that you dealt with some
shit for being the quote unquote
poor kid or scholarship kid,
but it also gave you that drive
and stayed with you the
rest of your life, probably.
Helps to be the
captain of the football team.
Well, yeah, that too.
Yeah, like I'm not complaining.
Like I had big friends.
Like, "You wanna mess with me?"
I'm like, "That's a really big friend,
"they're gonna beat you up."
And then at the same time,
at a small school like that,
you're a captain of the football team
and you help the team be, do great,
people wanna be your friend.
Right. So...
Yeah, you had a lot of balance in there.
Yeah, it's crazy. A
lot of different worlds.
Very blessed.
Do you ever reflect on this besides now?
Yeah, in different ways.
Most of it is just kinda like,
"Man, I'm pretty lucky."
Yeah. You know?
More than anything
else, just kinda blessed.
Like, "Oh, I was pretty blessed
"to be able to do some of that."
Without realizing that,
had I not had those things,
how hard it could have been,
that part, maybe it's making me think
more about right now.
But, you know, I was a decent athlete.
I think the thing is, is
there's plenty of people
who are decent athletes,
but they don't work hard.
Just think about it, like,
when you go from football
practice to soccer practice,
to homework, to theater,
you know, and rinse, repeat,
and oh, by the way, you gotta, you know,
you can't go mess around at break
because you gotta go do this.
Like, I was overworked.
But I had no, but it also said, like,
you know, if you want
all these things, like,
by the way, like, the more, it's funny,
the harder you work,
the more opportunities
present themselves.
That's a blessing and a curse,
because then all of a sudden you're like,
"And I still have that
blessing and curse now,"
because it's this conflict
between your values wanting something,
and it, like, let's say,
like, you wanna volunteer,
but it costs you time
away from your family.
And that conflict messes
with me as I've gotten older.
Yeah, that makes sense, yeah.
You wanna do these things,
but like, having a
child second time around,
I don't wanna miss those years,
like, I miss them with me first.
You see the trade-off, and
it creates that conflict.
That conflict, what are
my values, in a sense?
Yeah, are they, you know, like, making,
it's like, just choices.
You know, like, funny thing is,
is in high school it never felt like
there was a negative choice.
It was just, do this, do this, do this.
By the way, because it
kept me from partying,
and because I wasn't partying,
I didn't feel like I didn't have FOMO
on that side of the house.
Right? Yeah.
Because I was busy.
Yes, and in some ways also,
like we had discussed
probably also your way of coping
with what had been going on.
So you've been busy, you've been doing,
you've been, you've had this childhood,
and all this, this installation,
this little small town in Miami,
your mom sells the
house, you're now at UF.
You had kind of always
had adults around you
helping form who you are.
Now you're on your own,
in college, in a town.
There's no, your mom's
not working at the school.
She doesn't have, no,
none of your mom's friends
are working at UF.
You're kind of free,
maybe for the first time.
No eyes are on you.
It's just your experience.
How did that experience
compare to where you came from?
Big man on campus.
Big fish, small, big fish, small pond
to little fish, enormous pond was a lot.
Joined a fraternity, helped.
Gave me a sense of that, you know, group.
I mean, having a couple
friends from my high school,
and it's really funny, like my,
so if you go to
Florida and it's rush week,
so you're just kind of walking around,
and my roommate
happened to know this dude,
and he comes over, and they're like,
"Hey, let's smoke," right?
And I smoked once, maybe, like, "Okay!"
Like I was yes to
everything at that point, right?
Not everything,
that's a stupid statement.
So we smoke, this dude
becomes my best friend
in all of college.
Like we lived together, we
joined the same fraternity,
and he was like, "My guy," right?
So we became the best friends.
So it was really funny,
that happened like day one.
You know? That's awesome.
Yeah.
And I do truly like being around people.
Like I just like people,
I have this friend now,
he's like, he looked at
me one day, he's like,
"You like people?"
I'm like, "Yeah," he's like, "You don't?"
He's like, "No, I don't like
being around people at all."
I just never even like, it's so funny
to hear someone verbalize it, right?
That's me. Okay.
Right, but what's funny is, Brian,
is because I like being around people,
I'm very good with introverts.
Yeah, yeah.
Right? Yeah.
Because they're like, "I can,
I make it easy on you
to hang out with me."
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And right, like, because, you know,
some people can do it,
like it's just adapting
very much so to my surroundings.
So I would, you know, so it was,
it wasn't as hard as you think for me.
I went to school, I drank a little bit,
partied too much,
missed a bunch of classes,
lost my scholarship,
that pissed my parents off.
Yeah, yeah.
But guess what, the response to that was,
was, "Now you're gonna
take a loan out in your name."
Okay, back then a
loan was a little easier.
It was like, "Here's
an interest-free loan,
you don't start paying back
until after you graduate."
Yeah.
Okay, so it started
paying for schools and books
and stuff like that.
When did that happen?
Freshman year.
Okay, so was that second semester
when you got with your friend?
I got to see, I got to
see in theater appreciation
and lost my scholarship.
Oh no. Shit, you know.
Wow. This is hysterical.
Theater appreciation.
Because I didn't go,
and I didn't know there was,
theater appreciation,
forget the, I love this.
Yes. And it was an 800 person class,
which is the worst thing in the world.
Yeah. Because no one cares.
And then there's eight plus notes.
So you kind of read the notes,
and the guy basically
made it tricky on people.
He kind of made it very much this.
I get my classes a joke,
but I'll put Easter eggs in showing up.
I hate that. If you didn't show up,
Yeah. You were screwed.
In attendance class.
Basically in
attendance class, it's all was.
I made the mistake also of like,
I signed up for like English at 8 a.m.
Oh, jeez.
But I didn't know any better.
Yeah. That's the interesting thing.
The interesting thing
about all of this was,
because I had never
really needed my mom to help,
or my dad to help, no
one helped me pick classes.
No, like we didn't go through that.
Like she was like, "You good?"
I'm like, "I'm good."
But it wasn't making wise decisions
such as an 8 a.m. class in
college or freshman year.
English? Yeah.
I'm gonna make that a lot.
So that's one I had to drop that way.
So I went through that process.
And yeah, I mean, I paid
for it by paying it back,
with interest and the modern way of
lending money to students
and then ripping them off
in the meanest interest rate
you can, that makes tons of sense to me.
So I paid it all back and all that,
but that was the trade
off, that was the consequence.
There's this whole debate around,
should you go to college or not?
And I'm still there.
But I think what you're describing
is part of that experience in college.
It's not all academic, it's learning.
Don't schedule a class at eight.
That'll help you later in life.
Do you ever have 8 a.m. meetings today?
Yeah, right?
I try not to. Yeah, you try not to.
Unless it's, yeah.
Brian, here's interesting.
I went back to my
school to talk to seniors.
And the number one
thing I talk to them about
is invest in
relationships when you're in college.
Business world or professional world
is a lot about who
you know always, right?
But opening doors.
Who you know opens doors.
I don't necessarily think that who I know
has helped me massively.
There's people I do know
where that's worked out.
But my message to the kids was,
you're not there
necessarily to really learn
and apply the book smarts.
You'll learn some.
There's some things I've learned.
However, my favorite classes
had nothing to do with my major.
But I had said to the kids, I was like,
"Look, first and foremost,
"get outside of your comfort zone."
And I wish I would have done that.
So that's the negative of
being this people person
like to be surrounded by people.
I don't like going to a bar by myself.
Whereas you know people are like,
"I go to a bar by myself all day long."
That's not comfortable
for me, which is weird.
And I used to, when I lived in Boca,
I remember Gatsby's was
right down the street.
And I would be like, "Hey, I
couldn't go there by myself."
And so I didn't break out of my circle.
And I was challenging them.
I said, "You know, if you
break out of your circle
"and you get outside of it,
"you're gonna meet
people from all walks of life.
"And these will open
massive trees for you."
Tributaries of crazy
relationships you never knew.
That I wish I did more.
And so that's what I
encouraged them to do.
Because that's where I think,
college has that opportunity.
Really, like a massive
opportunity for them to do that.
And then the other thing is like,
"Man, your best
opportunity to explore topics
"you'd never thought to explore."
And I don't think you don't like,
we're like, "Hey, I'll do theater
appreciation in golf
"to get my credits."
Because everything was about
sort of achieving your
credits to get to graduate.
And I was four in, four out.
And I really wish I wouldn't have been.
By the way, I don't
think I coached my daughter
as well as I could have
through her college journey.
Which is funny, because I know this.
But I really don't
think I pushed her as hard.
I got her out of her
comfort zone for sure.
She went way out of Florida.
But not necessarily the way I'm talking.
Which is interesting.
So, go ahead.
Well, the question, so
you went back to your,
you spoke to seniors at your high school.
It's a very interesting thing.
Because I know you are a giving person.
And you do volunteer, you
do some things like that.
How did they receive that?
Did they?
So I really was so
grateful for being invited.
It was like I was
three years into my company
and my entrepreneurial journey.
And got invited back.
And it was a really neat experience.
It was all seniors.
We were at some
gazillionaires house on Fisher Island.
I think the guy invented the barcode.
Oh, my goodness.
Literally, right?
Someone invented that?
Right, I see.
Oh, by the way, this was a lesson for me.
I got to talking to him
for 30 minutes and realized,
I know exactly why you
invented the barcode.
There was no way you were gonna survive
in corporate America.
That wasn't an option.
And he and I reflected
on that to the students.
I go, you know, everyone
wants to be an entrepreneur.
Everyone wants to own a
company and blah, blah, blah.
Yeah, the reality is, is I'm not,
I mean, I was college, the
workforce, big corporate.
I just, my journey into entrepreneurship
is different than a lot of other people.
But there are some people
who do it out of desperation
because there's nothing else.
And that's a really core driver, right?
No other options.
Or I've done a self-assessment
and I can't live in that world.
And that opens really cool things.
Talk about getting out
of your comfort zone.
100%, right.
And that's, you know, it's funny.
Getting out of your comfort zone is like,
I feel like I'm a risk taker,
but I don't feel like I'm a risk taker.
It's so, because of
this circle of comfort
that we've talked about building.
Yes.
And when you were college,
and we talked about how
a lot of that fell away,
but you still had some of it,
because you had friends there,
and then you created
with your fraternity.
So it sounds like you
kind of approached college
a little bit similarly in high school.
You were driven.
You had an end goal.
Maybe you focused on the end
is more than the
process of getting there.
It was like, I'm graduate.
Like I got four years graduate.
This is what I need to do.
And as you're saying,
instead of getting out
of your comfort zone,
having some different life experiences
during those four years,
not be so goal focused on
what you're supposed to be doing.
Yeah.
I've often reflected that,
had I decided to go,
I was burnt out of sports.
I had said that.
But I love football.
Love it.
And should I have even explored
that's going to a small school,
staying the same path,
I'd probably be
coaching football right now,
in some respect.
I may still, in my older days,
like high school and what have you,
but if I would apply the
same level of passion drive
and intelligence to that,
I would have done it in a high level.
And so sometimes I've,
I keep asking myself,
you don't always have
to do the straight line.
My life's been very
straight line, I think,
until it gets disrupted.
And a lot of actually my risks
have been forced upon me.
Yeah.
But it's, yeah.
Yeah.
But when did that,
so you graduate from college,
did you then do the
next kind of safe choice,
like as far as what was your first job?
Yeah, so my first job was a buddy of mine
got me an interview.
Okay.
In Atlanta.
My best bud,
one of my best buds who picked me up
every day from school,
his older brother,
who had come down to
college and blah, blah, blah.
And like we became friends
and we're great friends now.
He got me a job,
ended up being more of a mentor.
And he gets me his job at
this company, he just left.
And I go on this interview
and one of the guys I'm interviewing with
gets up in the middle, starts stretching,
like literally, weird.
It's my first job interview ever.
That's awesome.
Wait, the guy that is interviewing you?
Two guys are interviewing me.
The friend who got me the job is in the,
or got me the interview
was in the, excuse me,
my best friend's brother's buddy,
who made the
connection, he's in the room.
But he starts doing all this weird shit.
And he works for them.
And he works for them.
Like some time she or something.
And the other guy goes,
and the other guy's like,
so I do this whole
interview, I think I did okay.
Yeah.
They say no.
My buddy calls him up.
You're gonna be
idiots, don't you do this.
And they end up hiring me.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, calls him up, you guys are idiots.
It's like a training ground
of inside sales reps, right?
Okay.
Top of my class, blah, blah,
blah, first to get promoted.
Let's put it this way.
If someone bets on me, I'm
gonna do a lot to make sure.
And by the way, this has driven me.
This is how I think I've been.
Even at the client
level, if the client says,
I'll go with these guys,
I'm gonna give the small guy a chance,
I will do everything
in my power to make sure
that they're rewarded for that decision.
So did great there, straight arrow.
First interview at a college.
Got the job, went to that place.
How long did you work there?
Yeah, all in all it was
about five, four, five years.
Five years?
Oh, that's a long time.
Oh, I see stuck around.
That's the same job.
So inside sales, and then I got promoted
and I moved to Louisville, Kentucky.
So you lived in Atlanta?
I was in Atlanta for two years, roughly.
And then went to Louisville?
Went to Louisville.
Okay.
And did two years there.
And that's where my
girlfriend and I got pregnant.
Okay, so you're working there.
You have your own place?
Yeah.
And you had your own
place in Atlanta, right?
No, I had a roommate.
Okay, so.
Yeah, that was great.
Like Atlanta was great, a
bunch of young professionals.
Okay.
A couple guys, I ended up meeting a guy
who I knew at Florida,
but didn't know really well.
And someone said, hey, that guy's
looking, you're looking.
Why don't you guys be roommates?
Perfect.
War besties now, it's amazing.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I love him.
That's awesome.
And he's strange, I'm
strange, it's great.
And we're having the time of our lives.
We're both doing these stupid jobs.
He's making fun of what I'm doing.
I'm making fun of what he's doing.
We're both just trying to figure it out,
go out, barely spend every,
and I made three or four friends
who I am really close with.
That's great.
That's great.
And then my buddy's older brother
is now one of my best buds.
Because now four year differences
and four, five year
differences is nothing, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so, yeah, the
friendships I made in Atlanta,
I mean, I'm very blessed.
I have a great circle
of just super cool people
that have been in my life.
And then when you get to Kentucky,
so that's your first time
ever living on your own.
Oh yeah.
And how old were you?
23.
So that's cool.
Just getting your own place, right?
Kentucky's interesting.
Louisville's interesting, right?
Like at one point I joke,
I go out to a bar,
I'm one of the only guys who doesn't have
his name on it, sure.
Why did they have
their name on their shirt?
Like, you know, like
you're like a uniform.
Oh, like a?
Yeah, like your name-cac, like a uniform.
Like, wait, you don't--
Like a blue collar job
versus a white collar job.
Oh, okay, okay, okay.
Which isn't even fair,
but it was like mentally,
I'm young and I'm stupid.
It's not fair. Okay.
By the way, Louisville's an amazing town.
It's one of our favorite cities, yeah.
We've been there, we loved it.
We loved it.
Loved it. Okay.
Big small town.
Great whiskey scene, right?
Yeah, yeah, very cool town.
Great whiskey scene, great bar scene.
Yes. Great music scene.
Great music scene.
Their blue scene is fantastic.
They had like Sunday concerts.
They are Catholic churches,
a new carnival every summer.
Summers in Louisville are amazing.
Winners, woo, cold.
Were you in downtown?
I lived in the St. Matthew's area,
which is kind of a little suburbia.
The downtown wasn't as good as it is now.
Yeah. Right?
It wasn't as-- And it's still
kind of a small downtown now.
It's a little dodgy.
Yeah, it's a little dodgy.
But it's like a small downtown.
By the way, I met a guy there
who is a lifelong friend now.
Yeah, he's amazing. I'm not surprised.
It's just kind of my journey.
So you're living in your
own place for the first time.
That's a big move.
And you work, you got this promotion.
You're working and you meet this woman.
My girlfriend from high school.
Oh, so had you guys been
dating this whole time?
No, no.
Wait, is this the one
that your mom yelled about?
No. Okay.
That was the Hooters waitress.
There's nothing
special about that at all.
You have that interesting part out.
It's part of myself.
But yeah, you know,
my kids are gonna listen to this one.
Oh, that's a good one.
They're gonna listen to this one. Yeah, so.
So when did you start
dating her in high school?
Sophomore year.
She was a year younger than I was.
So I guess I was a
junior, she was a sophomore.
You guys were like off
and on through high school?
Well, she ended up moving back to
Columbia, the country.
Oh.
So like they, her family moved back there
and then we reconnected.
In Kentucky of all places?
We were connected remotely.
Okay.
And so then even in Atlanta.
So we reconnected remotely in Atlanta.
And then we started
doing the remote dating.
It was always long distance.
Okay.
She would fly, she moved to Miami.
No, she was living in Miami working.
So when she graduated college,
she moved to Miami and started working.
Okay.
And then we were doing the
long distance thing for a while.
And then we were talking about marriage.
So it wasn't like, we
weren't talking about it.
And so.
Did she move to
Kentucky to live with you?
She moved to Kentucky,
but she like moved in.
We're like, I said,
well, why don't you move?
Like she's like, I want to be closer.
So she moves with some roommates
or gets an apartment with some roommates,
but that doesn't work.
So she's in my house 24 seven,
which when you're young, yeah.
So you had your own place, but not.
Yeah, so I had my own
place for like a year.
Okay, and then you had
your girlfriend there.
Correct.
Okay, and she's
working there too, I assume.
Yes.
In Kentucky.
Okay.
And so you guys are dating.
We're dating.
And you're talking about marriage.
Yeah, we're like, hey, and
maybe this is the kind of ring
I would like.
Okay.
That kind of stuff.
Yeah.
More like that.
I'm still 23.
Right.
Right, 24.
And then she gets pregnant.
Okay.
And, you know, so I immediately say,
well, let's go, I
gotta do the right thing.
Let's went to the, got
the justice of the peace,
come to my house and my mom flew up.
My dad was like, should I?
And, you know, like,
nah, it's no big deal.
Don't worry about it.
We'll connect.
So then, so then he, so it was like, no,
it's my mom's there and
we do a little baby altar
in my apartment, if you will.
And justice to the peace comes,
he's like an ordained
minister and he does that.
And so we get married.
What about her family?
Were they there?
Family was in Columbia.
We had him like on, like,
what was it at the time?
Aim or ICQ?
Yeah, something like that.
It's crazy, like
something, you know, to get it.
Yeah, and it's me, my mom, her, my uncle,
because my uncle lived in Louisville.
Okay.
And then my cousin, and
those were like our witnesses.
And we did a little cute
little thing and, you know,
had some wine, whatever, it was nice.
And then a couple of weeks later,
we went down to Orlando and did the parks
and we did the parks.
And so everyone, like a
couple of my buddies came,
my dad came and everyone
got to spend time with her
and get to know her or whatever.
She spent some time with
my dad and my dad was like,
yeah, yeah, that's great.
Like, he's like, I'm not feeling great,
but everything's good.
And my dad died 30 days later.
So how old were you?
I was 24.
And she was still pregnant?
Mm-hmm.
How did he pass away?
Heart attack.
So my grandfather died at 58,
a couple months before I
was born of a heart attack.
And so he, my dad died
of a heart attack at 58.
A couple months
before-- A couple months before
my daughter was born.
Your daughter was born?
Yeah. Wow.
So it was in the family.
Yeah, hereditary for sure.
Young though. Very.
And he was in Miami?
Yeah, my little,
I'm at a work thing
and I get a phone call
from a police officer
and he was in the shower
and he had a heart attack in the shower.
And my poor little brother woke up.
Was he living with him?
He was living with him and he woke up.
He went into his shower.
Just kind of moseying around.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just walked in on my father passed away.
Your poor brother, just to
add on to all the other shit
you were talking about.
Which is amazing,
because he just, his heart is so big.
He's just such a good,
floats through life with this,
you would think he'd be like,
"Rrr, rrr, rrr, no, no, he's not.
"He doesn't walk
around with this dark cloud,
"woe is me vibe at all."
I'm always like, "Dude."
Not only was your dad
young, you were young.
Extreme young. Very young.
And about to become a father.
Yeah. Yeah.
So that's a whole nother thing.
So that was--
So that had to have been
like a grenade for your family.
Just massive.
We were gonna move from
Louisville to Atlanta.
We changed our minds when we said,
"Let's go move down to South Florida."
Which I think my wife never
wanted to be in Atlanta anyway.
So she used that as an opportunity.
Hey, let's get to Miami.
So that's August 1st,
September 11th happens.
Oh, geez.
We said September, we moved.
I changed jobs.
Same company?
Same company.
Wonderful, wonderful manager.
Was an important man in my life.
Because they worked with you, right?
Because of everything going on,
they kind of set all that up
for you, that job in Miami?
They weren't that great.
Okay. Yeah, they weren't that great.
One man was good.
I was gonna say, you got one guy.
He had a role, he's
like, "You can come here."
I was leaving the company, by the way.
I was interviewing for a
role at a different company
because I was like, "I'm gonna move on."
Okay.
Big corporate, 250,000 person company.
So he had a role, I knew the guy.
He's like, "Hey, I got a
role in Fort Lauderdale.
You can come down here."
So that's great.
So I got to move.
We buy a house, change jobs.
My daughter's born all within six months.
And you're 24.
Turned 25.
25. Yeah.
25, I guess that was 25. 25.
And your mom's not
there because she's living.
And mom was super, like
she's trying to do everything.
But all the familiar stuff.
Yes, there's no
familiar, there's nothing.
It's just such a
contrast from when you left,
graduated high school,
and this life you had had,
and then you come back, and it's like
nothing is the same.
And we move out to the
middle of nowhere suburbia.
West, west, west Broward County.
And your dad's not there.
So you're having to live
down here in South Florida
without your father for the first time.
That's a whole new normal.
Was your little brother still here?
No, he was in Tampa.
He was in Tampa.
But you had the uncle, right?
And the cousins?
Yeah.
Who lived in Boca, but too far away.
I mean, now you've got your new wife,
and the daughter's born.
The baby.
The baby's born.
You've got a new job.
You're back to a
familiar geographical area,
but it's completely different.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
It's almost like--
Broward, like I don't know anyone.
Yeah, I don't think.
So, well, and she's still,
we haven't even gotten to
the birth of your daughter.
So she's still pregnant.
You've started this new
job, you've bought a house.
I mean, I bought that
house and she was born like.
And then she was born,
and now you're a father.
Yeah.
So how did becoming a
father change your life?
You know, I take it very seriously,
but then it was, I took
it as a responsibility.
And I think my wife was
struggling with a little postpartum.
That's my diagnosis, no one else's.
So it was really tough.
It was really tough.
I was opening a
territory that had been neglected
for a very long time.
And if anyone's tried to
build a business from start,
it's really hard.
It's a ton of no's.
Well, actually we
didn't even touch on that.
Huge expectations
professionally now, right?
Now I gotta earn.
You gotta earn and
you're building a territory,
starting it from scratch
or fixing a neglected one.
And it's the type, back
then sales jobs were low base.
You make your money and you're variable.
Now they've new world of,
there's more balance to it,
which is different.
And so it was really hard.
I had a good manager, he was cool dude.
He had a lot of pressure on you
because now you're a
father and a husband.
And I couldn't make the ends meet.
And it was funny because I
inherited just a little money
from my dad from life insurance.
The irony of my father
being a financial planner,
but his, the cobbler's children have no
shoes kind of thing.
Like his world.
By the way, I was the
executor of the will
because there was no
executor of the will.
So everyone's like,
you're the guy who's organized.
I'm like, I'm not organized.
You're the high achiever.
You're the high achiever.
Correct, so it's not always
fun to be the high achiever.
And for some reason in our family,
we like to say,
please be the high achiever
and then judge you as you do it.
Lovely, and that
happened to my dad when my mom,
when my grandma passed too.
He was judged as he
did it, which is funny.
Yeah, I think that happens.
Heavy as the crown, they say, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, and I remember so distinctively
walking the dog once
because the marriage was hard.
It wasn't working.
It was just, you know, unfortunately,
it was just nothing but
stress all along the way.
And there wasn't a ton of support.
And I remember looking at the sky,
like, dude, where are you?
Not God, dad, dad.
Where, like, I need you now.
You know?
Yeah.
You're dealing with a lot there.
You're dealing with not
having a father at 25,
which no one expects.
Hello?
Like, never in your wildest dreams.
He was so excited to be a granddad.
Like, he was out all over the moon.
And he was gonna have
granddaughter, you had three boys.
And just to go back, you had finally,
once you hit an old enough age
to drink, you know, hang out.
That's when your
relationship really started.
For 30 days, it was a really cool window.
Was it only that long?
It was only that long to talk about
what was gonna be possible.
Yeah.
30 days.
What a tease, man.
What a terrible joke, tease.
So.
And our last, one of our last,
I'm pretty sure our last
conversation was he was telling me
I should buy life insurance.
And I go, dad, I don't wanna
talk about death right now.
Yeah.
Like, dude.
I'll figure it out.
But I don't wanna deal with this now.
He's like, you need to do this.
You know, my dad was always sort of,
he's not trying to sell me anything.
He's like, this is responsible.
What is something that happens to you?
You know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I remember buying life insurance,
like, right after he passed.
Because I was like, I need it.
Yeah.
You know?
It's such a cruel joke, right?
You're giving a
window into what could be,
and then it's snatched from you.
And you're so young,
and at the same time,
and you're still a child,
you're still your
father's child at that time.
We're always our parents' child.
So you're your father's
child, and you lose him,
but now you're someone's father,
and have to be that to that child.
And also a husband.
That is an insane tornado of everything.
What would you say your
biggest coping mechanism
was during that time?
That's funny.
I mean, you know, work
was part of it, you know?
Because I had no choice.
I mean, yes.
Ultimately, I don't
ever run from a fight.
That's never been me.
So unfortunately, that leads
you to deal with things later.
Yeah.
Right?
So just push it down.
Denial.
Maybe that's a little nice Gen X,
or just push those feelings down.
You're not allowed to have those.
Oh yeah.
So there was a lot of that.
Buddy of mine got me
involved in a softball team.
Just a way to take my mind off of it.
Yeah, I don't know that I
coped as much as I just dealt.
Avoided.
Avoided, yeah, just operated, right?
Like I put blinders
on and said, you know,
execute, you know, like
you can't not make ends meet.
I think it got real,
then there was a divorce.
So how long were you guys together?
Like 18 months.
It almost was destined to not, to fail.
It started with just so much.
And anyone in a normal
situation would struggle,
but you guys were so young.
And even though you'd
been talking about marriage,
it kind of happened so quickly.
There wasn't a lot of preparation.
Wasn't natural per se.
Correct, for it.
It was for the reaction too.
Right, and then.
But it's a testament to you
being a good person too, though.
You're trying to do the right thing.
And doing the right
thing isn't always easy.
And then you get more
curve balls thrown at you,
and it's like, this is really not easy.
Under such extenuating circumstances.
I mean, it's, and even though, you know,
your mom was there being supportive,
she's not living close to you.
So it's not like she's the grandma
that could just come over and help.
You know what I mean?
You guys didn't have that, even that
person that comes in,
I'll take the baby,
you guys take a break.
I think I've learned
a little bit of that.
My mom's really good at
dealing with the situation
without emotion, just operating.
Like she, when my dad
passed, like, even though,
I mean, to give you an
idea of like, you know,
they really loved each other.
They just had a really tough time,
and they got divorced, but like,
like we did thanks, we did a,
just before he passed,
the year before he passed,
we all did Thanksgiving
and Christmas together.
They were still friends.
Yeah, like, you know, there was a respect
that got developed,
redeveloped over time.
And that was really beautiful to see.
And when my dad passed,
like, she was really a rock
for the three of us.
Like she moved it, but
then she talked to me
about how like, then it
came crashing down on her.
My dad's passing didn't
come crashing down on me until,
like really like to
deal with it, it was funny,
like one, honestly, it was years later
and my buddies about, my
buddy had to write a eulogy
for his grandma's passing.
And he goes, you know, can I see yours?
Cause I spoke at my dad's
and I like got three sentences
into it, ran out the
house for about an hour
and just basically sat
on a, outside of the back
of my house crying for,
It finally hit you.
Yeah, I just couldn't, couldn't not cry.
How long from the time
your dad had passed to that?
Four years, maybe.
Okay, so you had buried and,
Buried, yeah.
Avoided and was in, and were in denial.
I've reflected on a
lot of the harder things
that have happened in my life.
And I feel like, I feel like,
God does that to certain
people who can handle it
so that they can help others through it.
And like even when my
friends got divorced,
buddy of mine was going through it,
I was there to help him through it,
like, hey dude, this is
how this goes, you know?
And it was tough.
Not long after my dad
passed a couple of years later,
you know, one of my
good buds, his dad passed.
And like, you know, to be there for him,
you know, that makes me
feel really good, you know?
Yeah, you're giving back
from your own experience
and your own agony.
What's the point of it
if you can't help others?
Yeah, you're finding meaning behind it.
Yeah, that helps me heal.
Right, which is, and that
comes from your beliefs,
from your two places,
two beliefs, your religion.
Right?
You got double.
Right, lots of good, lots of good.
Yeah, but that faith
helps you find that meaning,
you know, and I actually
think that's a beautiful thing.
And I'm not surprised
that it took you that,
I think, I don't know if
men in general do that,
but I think all men I've known
who've gone through a
significant loss like that
avoid dealing with it
for a very long time.
And the men I'm talking
about are Gen X, two age,
and so I think that also
goes back to Gen X boys
not being given space to understand,
identify their emotions, express them.
And then they grow up to be these men
who still don't have
that emotional development
because it wasn't given to them
because they're included in this.
But I think then when life hits,
they don't necessarily have the tools
to even start processing.
And because I think
the younger generation,
the men in the younger
generations are way more fluent
in being able to identify, not in
general, in general,
even to just identify
what you're feeling,
identify it and give it a word.
So I think that's very
typical for our generation
the way you coped with it.
But then you were able to find good in it
in how you gave back to others.
And not everyone can do that.
So that's very commendable that you found
that silver lining there.
So you guys divorced after 18 months.
Do you stay living close to each other?
She moved back to Bogota, Colombia.
With the baby?
Yes, that was a tough decision at first.
I was so young and stupid.
I was like, well, she's a girl.
She needs to be with her mom.
There was probably
some selfishness there.
You know what, I don't
think it was selfish.
There was some fear there.
I don't think I can do this.
Really didn't.
I'm like, I don't, like if it was a boy,
I probably would have
been like, all right,
smack him in the head.
Let's figure it out.
As a girl, I was scared.
Did you say not even 18 months old?
Yeah.
And at first it was okay
because at first it was great.
She would spend months
at a time with each of us.
So she'd be in Colombia for a month,
fly back to me with a nanny.
Oh, okay. From Colombia.
Okay. Yeah.
And I would have her
for months at a time.
That sounds pretty ideal. It was amazing.
It was amazing. Vocalizing to men.
It was like, what?
So my buddy, my buddy
teased me all the time.
He's like, dude, no,
no, it's fake parenting.
But like, he teased me all the time,
like fake parenting, bro.
Like, yeah, well, but
yeah, that was great.
Where it really sucked
is when school saved.
Because then it went
from, I had her all the time
and our relationship was
really great in those first
like zero to five, zero to six.
Like really great. With your daughter.
Yeah, really great.
And then when she started going to
school, it was like,
it was like, all of a
sudden it really went down,
not downhill, that's not the
right word, it just separated.
It became harder to do.
I would fly to Colombia to be with her.
You didn't even have a weekend.
So I would go months without her.
And there was no FaceTime,
there was no any of that.
Like, what six, seven or eight year old
wants to talk on the phone?
How are you?
Good.
Good, good.
Yeah, so was it like,
would she come spend summers
with you? Yes.
And then like every other Christmas?
All that, yeah.
So that's, and a lot of
times, especially the Christmas,
I mean, it takes a
while just to get caught up
and get comfortable
with each other again.
So I'm sure in the
summers, you had that time,
but Christmas is probably right as you
guys found your groove.
She's going back to Colombia.
Yeah, you know, they were tricky times.
I tried to make it to
Colombia a couple of times a year.
So does she have dual citizenship?
That's cool.
Is she fluent in Spanish and English?
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
So did that go on for
her from kindergarten
to time she was 18?
Was she doing that?
No, because things that
happened in her world,
in her mom's world, and
we had made the decision,
it was better for her.
My now wife and I were,
had made the decision.
We were dating for a while.
We had the decision,
let's move in together.
And at the same time we
decided to move in together,
her mom had some stuff going on that was,
like it'd be better if she was with you.
How old was she?
12.
Okay, so middle school.
So you guys got a girl
right as she was going
into middle school.
And I feel bad for her.
I mean, like everything she knew,
she was living in one city.
Her mom's like, we're
moving to a new city.
They moved to that new city and
immediately is like,
hey, this isn't working out.
You need to go with your dad.
And so she just got ripped from
everything she knew.
And I know that was hard.
Now the amazing thing
is she got brought into
a very stable situation
except her dad's a lunatic
and yells and screams a
lot, did not handle having
two middle school slash
high schoolers and that.
Like I did not handle that.
But now you're, were
you also newly married?
We were at the time not even engaged.
We just said, let's move in
together and see if this works.
Middle school is hard
for almost every girl.
And I think for a lot of
boys under any circumstance,
I always say it sucks.
It's the worst.
It's the worst.
Let alone what your
daughter was walking into
being in America now permanently,
being with her father
and his girlfriend now.
And also a place that speaks only English
like she was coming from,
even though she knows it.
It's such a culture.
Big culture difference.
So I can't even imagine
what she went through.
I mean, I really can.
And also what you guys were going through
because you're not only helping guide who
through middle school shit,
but also cultural stuff too.
Well, yeah.
So they parent different than we parent.
There's a nanny there.
There was a grandma there.
My daughter knew how to get a
yes, some way, shape or form.
My wife is really black and white.
She comes from a very
strong, multi-generational
military background.
So that's another shock.
Oh yeah.
Well, by the way, I feel,
I also feel really bad for my oldest who,
my oldest was, it was
just her and her mom.
Not that her dad wasn't around, but it
was her and her mom.
I was gonna ask you that.
So you said you had two middle schoolers.
No, a high school and a
middle schooler, right?
Yeah, it roughly
works out to high school.
She's about four years older.
So her wife now had her, a child too.
Correct, that's what I'm referring to.
So I just call her my oldest.
Yeah, she's your oldest.
She's my oldest, she's amazing.
So your oldest is there
and had been her and her mom.
Her and her mom.
And her mom has to make this choice.
Like, hey, we're
gonna move in with dummy.
Yeah, this guy.
With this dude.
Just ignore his
temper in his weird manner.
Just ignore his temper,
which on the move in day,
like South Florida movers,
or maybe it's everywhere,
but they like close the
door and they're like,
you owe us more money.
Yeah, yeah.
And I do not handle someone
shaking me down well at all.
And I'm, and we're losing.
By the way, those two,
there's no up and down.
They're as even killed as there is.
And I am like, I won't kill everyone
in this fucking four hour front.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lucy did.
And they're just like,
what's happening, right?
The shock value is massive.
What have you got?
100%.
She's like, life was great.
It was just me and mom.
Like I had her all to myself.
Now I gotta share her.
And I'm like, oh, funny story.
Not only do you have to share her,
here comes a wrecking ball.
And I don't mean that the wrong way.
I gotta come in like that.
I mean like the song, like just.
Yes, yes.
A lot Latin.
Yes.
Right?
Yes.
Big personality, highly emotional.
What the hell just happened to me?
But the way I deal with it is, ah.
And like, by the way, every
time she used to come home,
my wife wasn't living with me.
And so she's used to, I
get to sleep in dad's bed.
Oh.
Kind of things too, right?
So like it's all really wonky.
So they both, like your
oldest doesn't get as much time
with her mom and now your daughter
who's come from Columbia
doesn't get to sleep in dad's bed.
So that.
A theme adventure.
That's another tornado.
Yeah, not even, I
think I'm wrong on that.
I think it's like 10 and
14, you know what I mean?
Or 11 and 15, like right.
So, but it's all that, those tough ages.
56, nine, oh, they're the worst.
One being ripped away
from her mom and like,
but like the relationship
there is a little bit more
cheerleader best friend.
My wife is a little bit
more like the boss, right?
Like these are the rules
pick up after you're still like,
very like, by the way, the most
supporting and loving person
in the world and her
daughters are blessed to have her
because they know it,
but that's the boss.
Right.
You know what I'm saying?
It's just such a different.
And there are rules.
She had no rules to all rules.
She runs a tight ship.
That's how this one is.
Nicole runs a tight ship here.
The one goes from no rules to all rules.
And this, and my oldest goes from like,
peace, love and happiness to mad chaos.
So my poor girls, so they
can have anything they want.
What do you guys need?
How can dad help?
Okay, so to go back a little bit though,
after your divorce, did
you stay living there?
No, no, I sold that house and got my
finances restabilized.
I'd been losing, you know,
like it was in all this debt.
I tell you the scariest debt is the
scariest thing to me.
It's never.
But you learn that like
you come out of it, you know?
Nothing's finite.
I needed to learn that.
I was like, I'm never
getting out of this debt.
It takes me $50 just to buy lunch.
Yeah.
You know, how am I ever gonna do it?
And then you just learn
that you believe in yourself
and it works out, but we work hard.
But yeah, I moved to close to downtown
and had a little fun.
So you got your own place.
Got my own place.
Got a part, now were you
experiencing the downtown Miami
that you didn't experience?
That's at Fort Lauderdale, but yes.
Oh, down at Fort Lauderdale, Las Olas.
Little bit, had a little fun.
Yeah, had some fun.
And then like a year
later, I moved up to here.
So.
Up to Boca.
Up to Boca.
Yeah.
So were you in the same
company during all this time?
When you moved to downtown?
No, I, well, I moved to downtown
and then I jumped
from like AT&T to Nortel.
All sales though.
Sales.
Okay.
Yeah.
I'm good with people.
To Nortel.
And then that was like, it was tough.
It was like a sinking
ship and then realized it.
And then I got
recruited to go over to Cisco.
Okay.
And this is my sort of
stupid brain, I think.
It was like, oh, my
territory is gonna be Boca North.
So I should move that way.
Like it matters, right?
But like, that's what I felt, you know?
I felt like I had to be in market.
I get hired, my boss
quits one week later.
That was awesome.
I didn't even have a laptop.
And literally my boss quits and literally
whoever replaces him
is like, what are you
bringing in this week?
I'm gonna get on a laptop.
I don't even know what
you're talking about.
It was culture shock for me.
Like, what are you, you know?
Yeah.
But screw it, man.
You know, just put my
backpack on and went to it
and immediately started earning.
That's when I met JD.
Okay.
So how long did you work for Cisco?
Six years.
And doing sales?
Yeah.
And so you were there at
a decent time then, right?
Cause if Nortel, they got rid of Nortel.
A lot of the big voice push.
A lot of big voice push.
Yeah, voice was big.
The pics was, you
know, the pics was there.
You know, like a couple of keys.
Cisco blew up at that time.
But it was hard, man.
Like my first experience there was,
it was a big team meeting.
That's how I met JD.
Big team meeting.
And like, I'm sitting there talking,
like they introduced me
and different things.
They're tell us a little bit about Nortel
and this and that.
JD's like, come here, young pup.
So like, you're talking
about like an eight layer,
like eight desk deep type thing.
And handsome is in the back corner.
Like as cool as the other
side of the pillow, right?
Like real cool back there.
And he grabs me and he's like,
come to the hotel, pick me up, literally.
And he's like, I'm going
to put you under my wing.
Like he right from there, grab
me and put me under his wing.
JD did.
JD did.
Yeah.
And you know.
That was a blessing.
Blessing.
That's who he is.
Yeah, yeah.
Everything.
That's an intro.
Just for our listeners,
we have an episode with JD.
We highly suggest you go
listen to JD's episode.
So in that sense, JD
was a mentor for you,
but your roles, not that they've
completely reversed,
but you guys are tight now.
You guys are friends.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah, like I said,
but my wife fell so in love with JD.
She's like, that man is all love.
And she said, do you mind
if I ask him to marry us?
And so she reached out to him and said,
I'd like you to be our officiant.
And she's amazing in that way.
She's done it five times.
She's married five different people.
And that has been passed forward.
So JD now is married,
I think three couples
and his son and two others.
So your wife has
married like five people.
Yeah.
And then now JD is--
Since she's done it, she was like,
all you have to do is
become a justice to the peace
and we can--
That's wonderful.
Isn't it?
It is, it really is.
It really is to be there for that moment
for people's or
beginning their life together.
Through all these years of,
I mean, even starting in Atlanta,
all the way through until
JD took you under his wing
and you're this young
salesman in the corporate world.
Yeah, so this culture
shock was interesting
because we all go to dinner.
Okay.
And this was like, oh yeah, you know,
it was torture.
We all go to dinner and this,
because we're out, we're like bossless
and this woman comes down
and we all go to this really big dinner,
we're drinking a ton of
wine and she goes, yay.
And she stands up on the
table and says, wine commits.
And this was so funny.
I love this.
She goes, she would point at someone.
He'd be like, 800,000.
You, 500,000.
You, 700,000.
And everyone's going around
and she's literally writing it down.
And they get to me and meanwhile,
like I'm there on the
job, like two weeks.
I'm like, I don't know.
200, they're like, boo, loser.
What is happening right now, right?
You use culture shock for me.
I was like, I don't think it
was a great first experience.
Most people, when they go to
work for a company like that,
their first experience is
like, you go to corporate,
you get the ha ha, the
ra ra, John Chambers,
high fives you, you
know, all these things.
I listened to JD's podcast.
He was like, this is the
greatest place in the world.
I didn't get that experience.
I went straight into you suck
because you didn't say a big enough,
because you didn't take big,
you know, big enough number.
And I think that is why I wasn't there
more than six years.
And why I ended up on
the journey I wanted.
Cause I was like, that's
not, this isn't who I am.
Different markets too though, right?
Cause JD was up in New York
and the financials
are there and all that.
But not when I met him.
When I met him, he was
covering South Florida,
a part of South Florida,
Collier, Naples, all that.
You know what I mean?
But yes, like his journey.
His indoctrination was there.
Think about it.
He spent all that
time with John Chambers.
He had given me time with a powerful,
Pretty remarkable guy.
Totally.
Could you imagine being in the room?
I just want to hear what he says.
That's how you talk to people.
You know there's an O'Rara.
Right.
And I think that's what
JD went through up there.
That's what I mean.
His experience was way different.
He did that.
He talks about a situation like that.
Well, JD coaches me on that too.
Like he'll say that was
a John Chambers moment.
That's cool.
What do you mean?
Like if I do something that is about
motivating the team,
about providing direction,
he'll reach out to me and
he's like, you've grown.
That's awesome.
And his affirmation means a lot.
That's awesome.
He's shared that.
His admiration or acknowledgement
of your professional and personal growth.
And maybe I'm talking at a school here,
but he's like, I'll tell you Greg,
he's really just grown or
matured or whatever it is.
So he's a huge fan.
Oh, definitely.
Definitely.
Through all those years,
and you had so many
different experiences,
it sounds like with different companies,
different positions,
but you were still
pretty young doing all this.
Is there something you wish you would
have done differently
during those years?
Or if you could go back,
is there a different way
you would have
approached things professionally?
I mean, if I were to
do anything different,
it would have been not go
to Atlanta from college.
It would have been to
go to a bigger market.
That would have been more and be more
technical or something.
I mean, I only had, I
mean, path of least resistance.
Like ultimately a
friend got me an interview.
That's how I got into tech.
I am not a pure computer technical guy.
I fell in love with it
because I find it super interesting.
And even when I went
to work at this company,
I grabbed this guy
who's now a great friend,
and I go, "Hey man, he is."
He's a wonderful surfer,
dude, the Atlanta surfer.
And he, I go, "Can you show
me what the hell this is?"
And he walked me into the data center.
He's like, "This is what this is.
This is what this is."
Thank you.
And then I was like, "Oh, cool."
Like this actually, I
understand it's power.
I really do.
I understand what it does.
And it does, if you
really think about it,
like we live in the
operations of IT world
and operations, I had
a CIO, I respect a lot,
said the other day,
which is kind of
loosely saying it is like,
"It's the engine."
And if the engine
doesn't work, nothing works.
Because it's not
sexy, but it's the engine.
And I think people overlook that.
So I really fell in love with that.
I'm like, "So this is
cool that we can do this.
And that enables this
person who's here to work
and be safe, be secure."
And I just find it interesting.
But I've had something like,
dude, if you went into
New York and big finance,
this could have been your journey
or that could have been your journey.
So maybe just not
taking the easiest path.
Like I said, I think my world is like,
I've stayed an easy path
until something else disrupts it.
But from that other
disruption comes new growth.
Maybe that's just the universe, like,
"Okay, cool, dude,
you're gonna go this way
until I knock you off your rocker
because that's what you
need for your growth."
Were you able to keep a growth mindset
through all those
years working in corporate
or do you think it affected--
Yeah, no, so in corporate, I remember,
I've got a boss who's a great dude.
I remember sitting down with him, I go,
"When do you think?"
He couldn't answer the question.
We had this great
philosophical conversation
that led us to a great relationship now
and we get to work together still.
But it was just like, man,
we work at this frenetic pace
that you put us
through, 8,000 TPS reports,
what did you do for me yesterday?
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Like, when do you sit back and go,
oh, how do I get better?
And I think, and then these
two guys who own this company,
they were recruiting me to
leave Cisco and join them.
And they sat me down and they go,
"What are you doing at Cisco?
Your personality isn't built for that."
You're like, "You should
be on the partner side.
This, that, and the next."
It was a sales pitch, a little bit.
They're trying to
recruit me, but it's great
because it made me go, "You're right."
And then I left.
Okay, so that was the
catalyst to get you to leave?
It was a bit of the catalyst.
It was a bit of the, I was like,
"I don't want to work here anymore."
But the real, that
was the potential side.
The negative side was back then,
in corporate America's model
is they shuffle the
accounts a lot, right, Brian?
Oh yeah.
And I had done a project
with a guy in Palm Beach
and it was like one of
the largest IT projects
his company has ever done.
And I looked at it and I go,
"This man is trusting
me that this will work."
Because that's the reality.
I mean, there were no one else.
In this particular, in many cases,
I am often the only person
that needs to be in the room.
And I was like, "This
is how this is gonna work
and this, that, and the
next," and blah, blah, blah.
And he trusted me that I
would make sure it works.
And that happened at the
end of Cisco's fiscal year.
And two weeks later, they're like,
"Not your account anymore.
Go here."
And I'm like, "No."
They're like, "Excuse me?"
I'm like, "No."
They're like, "No, this
person's gonna manage it."
I'm like, "I mean, she could
get all the credit if you want,
but I'm not leaving that man."
And that's when I was
like, "This isn't for me."
Yeah.
I'm the type of person when the work
starts after the order.
That's who I am.
And I just had to
say, I had to honor that.
Like, I have to be on
that side of the house.
I can't be on the side of the house
where you close the deal and you move on.
You're not the transactional type.
You're the relationship guy.
You're the relationship guy.
And I wanna do right by people.
Everything is a level of trust.
And what we often miss
in my industry is that
most sellers don't
realize how much work it is
after you sell something.
It'll take the time to
understand what Brian has to do
after he places the work.
And how hard that is.
And how if it doesn't work together,
if it doesn't work well,
like that's when the work really begins.
And by the way, I like work.
I wanna be there.
That's where the value is.
Yeah.
Right?
That's where the real value is.
And so I love that.
I appreciate it more.
And that's when I kinda started to look.
So just before I ask my
next question, I'm curious.
It sounds, I'm not sure
when I think the answer
to this is gonna be,
but have you ever had imposter syndrome?
Oh yeah.
I have it all the time.
I thought you were gonna say no.
All the time.
Because everything you've
taught from captain of soccer,
captain of football, doing the play,
everything you've done,
you just tackle it.
And it made me think,
and I know we've
talked about some of that,
was maybe coping and all that,
but I thought you were gonna say no.
I really did think you were gonna say no.
So I answered it wrong.
I said it all the time.
I mean all the time now.
Okay.
So what I mean by that is,
so I'll explain.
So it's funny,
because when I left Cisco,
it was a path.
Someone offered me something.
Someone came to me and
they were a small company
and they said, "Hey,
we'll give you X percent
of my business to come join me."
I was like, "Holy shit, this is great."
Yeah, so you were gonna be part owner
of a business
basically? Correct, correct.
Of a partner.
And I was like, "I wanna take that."
Yeah. You know?
And so I do it.
And I leave.
And then I go back to
one of my Cisco buddies,
who's in channels,
and he goes to me, he
goes, "I don't get it."
He goes, "You guys, this many employees,
you do about this much in revenue.
How do you make any money?"
And I was like, "Oh shit, I
didn't ask that question."
I just took the job.
Yeah.
I never asked the guy, "How you doing?"
His wife was an MBA.
So I was like, "We gotta be great."
Yeah. She's an MBA.
Turns out she was a
scientist who also got an MBA.
Oh.
(laughing)
Didn't ask that question.
Greg is sometimes very much like,
"Oh, cool, go.
Looks great."
That's the confidence.
I'll figure it out when I get there.
And that was really my decision.
I was like, "If I screw this up,
I'll go back to Cisco."
Or like, "These guys are high-end.
One of these companies will hire me back.
I'm pretty good at what, I'm pretty good
at this selling thing."
At that point, I had
established that I knew.
I knew how to do it.
You had a safety net.
And then you begin to
compare yourself to others.
Okay.
We've been in a room
together, this person and I.
I can do this job with
some of the best, so I'm good.
And that gave me
confidence to take risks.
And I was reading this
book called "Right Risk"
about a, it was written by
the guy who jumped off of a
high dive into a, like threw
a ring of fire into a pool.
And it was just about calculating risk.
So I'm like, "I can do this.
This is not that risky."
And so I got there
and the market crashed.
Like two weeks later.
So what--
What was that?
2008?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like two weeks later.
Okay.
Shit.
And all tech spending kind of dried up.
Yeah, everything dried up.
Yeah.
You know?
And it was like, "Uh oh."
Yeah.
Yeah.
And my buddy had just said,
"How do you guys make any money?"
Right?
Yeah.
And oh, by the way, like,
and I went from making all
a lot of money to no money.
Now my dad--
And you left Cisco.
Like you had left Cisco.
Left Cisco. And my dad had always instilled in me
a great deal of saving.
Even had mentors who would say,
"If you can't live on
your base, you know,
you're spending too much, right?
In sales."
And so I had saved a lot.
And I had a 401(k) from
the day I started at work,
even though I barely made any money
because dad
foreshoved that down my throat.
And so at one point I
was like 31 years old
and said to myself, like,
"I have a 401(k) in a retirement
and none of my friends do."
So I've got a head start.
I could stop putting
money into those things.
I'm fairly analytical
and mathematical guys.
I was like, "Oh, wait a minute.
I'm doing a little."
I knew how compounding worked.
And I'm like, "I'm gonna be okay."
But that scared me.
Like market crash, how you
guys gonna make any money?
Like that was a real, "You are an idiot."
And so I literally took
almost no money in salary
so that we could keep
employees for several months.
I'm like, "All right, don't pay me."
Because I talked to
the guy and he's like,
"Yeah, we got some problems."
I'm like, "Don't pay me."
Put it like in arrears
and make sure these guys are all paid
because we have to keep the talent.
What did you do?
What was the company?
It's that same thing I do now.
Which explain?
Let's call it a Cisco reseller partner.
Okay.
A company that brings
solutions to companies
like hospitals and
schools and enterprises.
And we will sell them the product.
We will design a solution for them.
We'll sell them the product
and we'll help them in the implementation
in areas that they need.
And then we may manage it for them.
So the full suite of services.
So that's what you were
doing when you became a partner.
You're gonna come be my VP of sales.
Okay, okay.
With no sales guys.
Okay.
Working for a super,
now that we understand how autism works
and as for like a very on
that side of the spectrum,
brilliant engineer, but
like not a people person.
Right.
And--
How long did you go where
you weren't taking a salary?
About three and a half months.
I was like, dude, I need something.
And then I sold some
shit and revenue came in.
Yeah.
And he had some weird practices
and I was like,
that's not gonna work, man.
He was like, no, they
have to pay us first
before we do them.
I'm like, that's not gonna work.
I'm like, I'm calling on big boys.
Like you don't go to big boys and say,
yeah, this is how this works.
You give me the money, then I buy it.
They're like next.
All the big boys back
then were going from,
I'll pay you in 30 days to
can I pay you in 120 days?
Everybody's stretching.
Yeah, everyone stretches.
Those were tough days.
And so I was like, well,
let's go build a relationship
with a creditor or the distributor.
You just figure it out.
Yeah.
You know?
And so everything started to get better,
but he and I had conflicts, you know?
Tough engineer,
literally just didn't understand
the way it all works
and would get in my stuff.
And one time he's like, I
just watched you get out,
negotiated, you're terrible.
I'm like, dude, stop
listening to my phone call.
What are we doing here?
Yeah. You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Just didn't understand it.
There was no trust.
None. They're not.
I didn't think you trusted anyone.
Right, right.
Zero trust. Yeah, yeah.
You know, come to find out,
I didn't know this, he was adopted.
Come to find out that
the reason the company was
in his wife's name is
because he had filed
for bankruptcy twice already,
so we don't have any credit.
And yeah, so he's a pilot,
and we fly to a couple
of different projects,
and he's telling me all
these different things,
and I'm getting to know him,
and I'm trying to work through it,
but we're bumping heads.
I'm like, shit, what am
I gonna do about this?
And anyway, we're working it out,
but I'm not really
ready to leave or anything.
I'm like, I just gotta figure this out.
And he's like, hey, let's,
I had landed a tiger direct at the time.
And he's like, let's go to Chicago,
check out one of the warehouses,
and from there we'll fly to
Colorado, we'll go skiing.
Wanna do that, and we'll
work on the relationship.
And my wife, my
girlfriend, now wife, had an event,
and she was like, it was
this really awesome event
that her company was
sponsoring, this big charity event.
She's like, I'm like, I can't, dude.
I really didn't want to.
I didn't want to, because it was like,
I don't wanna sit on a plane with you.
And so he took one of
our other engineers,
they flew to Chicago, did the job,
and then they were
supposed to fly off the next day,
but he wanted to get there.
He's like, let's fly at the night
so we could ski in the morning,
and they decided to leave at like 11 p.m.
They left and at 1,000
feet didn't check in,
and he lost an engine in the plane.
No. And he died.
Both of them? Both of them died, yeah.
Oh my goodness. Pretty true.
Wow.
So now I get a phone
call at five in the morning
from his uncle who was working for us,
and he's like, we lost him.
And...
Also, that's an experience for you,
because that's a near-death experience.
Yeah, totally.
Someone was looking over at my,
dad was watching out for me for sure.
That's a whole thing. No question.
Wow. No question.
I mean, I've done a
bunch of stupid shit that,
oh, I almost died right there.
Well, that's Gen X.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, boy, I've done like, hey, I
shouldn't have jumped
off of that, how did I do that?
How did I dive off of
that platform 60 feet
and not break my back?
Someone's looking out
for me every now and again.
For sure. I'm starting to think,
maybe I should make
better decisions, but...
It was the bike rides to Tithe.
It was the tithing. It's the tithing.
It was the tithing.
It's totally the tithing.
It was the commitment.
But no, but honestly, that's literally
a near-death experience.
There's no question. No question.
I should have been on that plane.
Yeah, so what happens?
Or, and sometimes I
think, had I been there,
I'd have been like, no,
we're going to dinner.
We've had a long day.
I'm not getting on this.
Let's just go to dinner and relax.
Like, dude, we can have
just as good a time here.
You know? I'm sure you--
Do you torment yourself
with that kind of shit?
I was just about to say,
have you flipped that coin
in your head a lot?
No longer, but sure.
For a while. For a long while.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
So are you now in charge of the,
like after that happened,
then were you in charge?
Everyone's looking at me.
What do we do?
High achiever.
What do we do?
I'm like fudge. Fix it.
What do we do?
I'm like, I don't know.
I don't know what to do.
We buried two people.
We attended two funerals.
And I remember going to
lunch after the second funeral
and literally one person
said, so okay, Greg, what's next?
Like someone wanted to know,
cause like, oh, we're going to get paid.
And I, part of me was like, oh, that's,
but the truth is I had no, like,
just like a glimmer of
ill will for the question.
And it was more like, I was like,
I was a little upset
because I had to answer it.
But not, I didn't
disrespect the guy for asking.
I'm like, you got to
take care of your family.
Of course you want to know where your
next paycheck's coming.
You like working here.
You just don't want to.
And so we held it together.
His wife was in charge.
His father comes out of retirement,
middle management at American Express.
And he's like, I'll take over.
You gonna do what?
(laughs)
And I have no, at this
point, like 32 years old.
I don't know about legal.
I don't know, like, I'm
just like, what do I do?
And you know, we're talking about the guy
with the one finger type
in click, click, click.
He has been retired
for a while, you know?
I'll take over.
And you know, the one
thing I know how to do
is pick up the phone,
move the business forward,
execute on what we've promised.
So it was just really
hard work for a little while.
And then I asked them if I could buy it.
How long between the plane crash
and you buying the company?
I didn't buy the company.
Oh, okay.
I asked them about it.
Yes. Oh, okay.
Because they made it
clear they were gonna sell it.
So I said, well, if you're gonna sell it,
I'd like to buy it.
I know everything about it.
I think I can make a fair offer.
And five, six months
to answer your question.
Okay.
But they were the ones
who said we're gonna sell.
And unfortunately, a
business broker got involved
and promised the world and set a price
that I was unwilling to pay
because I knew the financials.
I'm like, I'm sorry, sir,
dad, it's not worth that.
And I felt bad because, you know,
they'd come to me with some
like weird, I'm like, okay,
but you can only buy
75% but you can't do this.
And you're like all
these kinds of wonky rules.
And it was a first
time for them, you know?
And I felt bad for his
wife because she's grieving.
I'm like, you need this,
like you have two kids,
like you guys need to go deal.
Like I've been through some of this,
like you need to go deal.
And they didn't, you know, they were
like, nope, heads down.
And they're like,
cool, you should go grieve.
And I think they had a
lot of trust in the father
to do things, but it wasn't like he,
someone had put a bug in his ear
and what he thought it could be worth.
And I was like, I'm not gonna pay that.
And they're like, I
think you need to leave.
Wow. Oh, wow.
So they brought in a broker
to come value the business.
The broker overvalued
it and you were like,
and then they started playing games.
Yeah, I don't even think the
broker did a real valuation.
Yeah.
I think the broker took some bad,
some relatively miscellaneous data.
Yeah.
And like we knew, like we
knew how the books worked
really well, like I
knew how the books work.
I knew how the books work, so.
And then they asked you to leave.
They asked me to leave.
And unfortunately said,
and I don't see your name
on any of this paperwork.
So your name wasn't on anything?
Greg did a lot of this on a handshake.
I don't know why I refer to
myself in the third person.
That sounds stupid, but the, yeah,
I just, I did this on handshakes.
Well, you were also young.
By the way, there's only a couple,
like I was even like a really,
like a year into this
journey with this guy.
So we just like, hey,
let's, we'll get to it.
We'll get to it.
Yeah, yeah.
We'll get to it.
It wasn't that I was foolish and said,
oh, I'll just handshake this.
We just got to work.
Yeah, yeah.
And we were working and,
you know, and like, okay,
like we could do this and, you know,
we'll go settle it down.
That was a stupid thing
to do in retrospect, but.
But you were young too.
Honestly, honestly, it worked out.
You know a lot of 31
year olds dealing with this?
Yeah, no, no, no.
But it worked out
because the
entanglement for you was far less.
You could probably walk away.
I'm sure we're gonna get
there in a two minutes,
but you could just, you could leave
and not have any strings attached.
Correct.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So.
Only guilt.
Only if you have, if
you're willing to take that on.
Guilt because honestly,
I'm looking at a single mom.
Yeah.
With who's dealing with a lot.
And I just was like,
man, this is so hard on her.
What happened to the company?
They sold it.
You know, they really
wanted to keep the name,
which I understand the
pride piece, you know.
But they, so they sold it to this,
these guys who had a
small company down in Miami
and it cratered in less than a year.
Oh, that's horrible.
I mean, I was the engine.
They just didn't
recognize, they, you know.
Yeah.
They didn't recognize it.
Yeah.
And I was like, you know, the reality is,
is in a small business,
especially a startup like that,
I was sales guy, project
manager, service delivery leader.
Like the only thing I didn't
do is the actual engineering.
Yeah.
You know, but I still
put the people in positions
to be like, hey, you need to go here.
This guy needs this.
You need this and this and that.
Well, that's that
disruption you talked about
and then would trigger or ignite or spark
the growth mindset.
So you had this
disruption, you leave Cisco,
you leave that linear path.
Yeah.
And then talk about
the exact opposite path.
Like it's all over.
It's like, ah, it's like
a scribble page of a path,
but I'm sure it challenged you.
You were super uncomfortable.
You had to get creative.
You know, you had to get scrappy
and then you go through
this whole emotional thing
with this near death
experience and then this guilt
and this wife with this
mom with these two kids.
So what an experience.
And you're still so young in your life
going through all that.
But during this time,
you also met your current wife, right?
Yeah, so we had started
dating while I worked there.
How did you meet her?
Oh, okay.
So, well, the way it
works is that we connected
on Facebook and it
happens to be that her name
and my mom's name are the same.
Oh, wow.
So I'm an Oedipus complex, clearly.
And so at the time my mom had joined
this singles sailing club.
Cool.
Exciting, right?
Like I was like, great
mom, great way to meet people.
Sailing, singles.
Was she still over on the West Coast?
Yes.
Yes.
And so that's cool.
Yeah.
I'm like, good for you mom.
And at the same time, my wife
had started a clothing company.
Oh, cool.
The clothing company
was called Real Naughty.
Spelled R-E-E-L-N-A-U-T-I.
Which I think is brilliant by the way.
I still think there's possibility there.
She's like, ah, fizzled.
And I'm like, man, that name is so money.
Anyway, trying to give
it to our old friend.
I hope I assume you own the domain.
Yeah, I think we own the trademark.
I think she owns the domain.
No, she owns the domain
because she still gets an email.
Good.
So get an email.
Double check before we put this on.
So I get an email.
(laughing)
Hey everybody, I'm getting off Facebook.
You can find me at this email.
To which I reply, mom, what
the hell is this organization
you joined, but that
I can't believe this.
This is terrible, blah, blah, blah.
To which I get a reply, not your mother.
(laughing)
That is quite a first impression.
Yeah, I mean, we, so here's what's funny.
Like we're from the same hometown.
Our parents worked together.
Oh my gosh.
We hooked up and the part she loves more
than anything else is that
she's shown our daughters
and our daughters love it.
She has a yearbook and
there I am with a big circle
of me and the word asshole.
Wait, when did you guys hook up?
I mean, we kissed her so,
you know, back in eighth grade
or you know what I mean?
So you guys went to
middle school together.
Or actually, let me rephrase.
I tried and she shot me down.
I'm sorry, honey.
I'm not clear about that.
So was she at the public school with you
or the private school?
The Catholic.
The Catholic school.
Okay, so you knew her,
but then weren't in contact
with her at all. Not really.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Until you thought she
was your mom on Facebook.
Yeah, until I got that email.
And then I go, I'm so sorry.
Can I buy you a glass of
wine to say, you know, sorry.
Oh, that was your, so that
was like, let me take you out.
I'm sorry. Let me take you out
for the last one, I'm so sorry.
I think I had known, I think I had known
that she had a child as well.
Wait, were you guys Facebook friends
because of knowing each
other back in middle school?
I mean, back then, like
Facebook was just starting.
Like you just connected.
Okay, so that makes sense.
It was just like, you
know, one degree of separation.
Okay, so when you were-
We still have a big
same circle of friends.
Okay, so when you responded
back, she knew who you were.
You weren't just this guy.
Okay, okay, so you take her out.
And like I said, our
parents worked together.
Like we know each other's history.
Right, okay, see, so you were vetted.
Yeah, I was vetted.
So when you asked her out.
As an asshole.
So why did she have-
I often tell, I tell them
the version I tell my daughters
is that your mom's been
chasing me the whole time.
Yeah, yeah.
All right, so we're clear.
Wait, did you ever get an answer
why she wrote asshole
next to your picture?
You know what?
It's so funny, we all
just laugh about it.
And I probably go, well,
the answer is because I was.
So, but I wonder what
triggered her to do that act.
Cause you know, that's something.
Great question.
And I will go ask her that this evening.
You did something.
Cause a girl doesn't
just do that randomly.
There's that's a result of something.
You did something.
Don't stir the pot here.
We got a good thing going here.
Thank you.
That's wonderful.
I'm going to chase that.
I don't know.
(laughing)
Okay, so-
The girls are gonna love this.
So you guys go out and was that it?
From that-
We got swine and we kind
of just started talking
and realized like similar journeys.
I was so impressed with like,
she was 21, but she had her daughter.
She had her daughter.
And she just rolled up her
sleeves and said, I got this.
Did she marry the father?
No.
Okay.
She just made it.
She tried to make it work,
but she also made a decision.
She's like, this isn't the guy for me.
Yeah.
She was so courageous.
She was like, I'll do this on my own.
Was she in college at the time?
No.
Had she been?
She was like, no.
Her journey was different.
She didn't go straight to college.
She was a little, at one point she'd like
bounced around and
traveled and went to fish shows.
Nice.
She's a hippie.
I call her a rich hippie
now, but she's a hippie.
You know what I mean?
She wears the fancy clothes, but they
still look hippie-ish.
Yes.
Isn't that great?
You know where dad has, right?
Yeah, totally.
Like she would love this.
Say no more.
I understand exactly.
But you know what I mean?
But now the clothes are
nicer and they're softer
and they feel better.
Oh yeah.
Listen, good hippie
clothes are not cheap.
She used to make her own clothes
like why she was on the road.
Nice.
She left.
In high school she left.
As soon as she was like, I gotta do me.
And so I had just so much respect.
It reminded me of my mom,
which is like that tough,
I'm gonna figure this out.
I just had such so much respect for that,
and so that endeared me to her.
And then we just got to know each other.
And we had just these really
interesting things in common.
It's like she's a thespian, our love for
theater is the same.
Like one of our, like
our second or third date,
she took me to a
hurricanes football game.
Nice, nice.
And like, and her is so funny.
Like went to this game,
she's got this friend who's like,
who are you?
I don't like you.
Like always protect me.
You're the answer.
I don't like you.
Who are you?
What are you trying to do with my friend?
And I'm like, you're crazy.
And she's like, and they were so funny.
You tailgating everybody
gets tuned up is so funny
because her brother's really protective.
Like he's several years younger than her,
but like is tough.
Marine, tough dude.
And we get hammered and he and his buddy
are trying to kick my ass.
Like, not like trying to,
but like male wrestle me.
Yeah.
And they're so drunk.
They're running at me and I'm like,
oh, lay like a bullfight.
They would fall on the ground.
It was like, this is hysterical.
You know, like it was
just, and it was fun.
It was, and it was, it was family.
You know, it was like,
it was, it was always,
for Jody, it's always about family.
And I love that about it.
She brought that, like
that into your world.
And it made me realize,
I didn't even know that,
like I didn't know what I, what it is,
like what I wanted, but like to me,
family is so important.
She comes from an amazing family.
Not that mine isn't, but
like they're big, strong,
you know, they've got
their own issues for sure.
Everyone does, but
like big, strong family
and care very much about that.
Like old Irish Catholic, you know.
Well, she accepted your daughter too.
She did. As her own.
She did very much so.
It's really cool.
And inspired me to be the same.
She knew you had a daughter too.
Oh yeah.
You guys bonded over that.
First date was the whole thing.
Like, hey, what is the
thing with parenting?
Yada, yada.
So how long did you guys
date before you got engaged?
I get this answer wrong.
You know, I'm in so much trouble.
Can I just say a couple of years?
Sure. Okay, great.
Sure, sure, sure.
And you guys, did you live together
before you got married?
Yeah, so we did like,
we did like a year of dating and then a
year living together.
I always say people should live together
before they get married.
But that year of living
together was with her daughter.
Yeah, very tumultuous.
And then your daughter.
So if you can get through
that, you can handle marriage.
The two of you, like
that was a great test.
It's like, if we can
do this, we can do it.
And what's so funny is
we still had a lot of fun
because the girls were
old enough, we could leave.
So our dating experience was fun
because we were living together.
We were living in East Fort Lauderdale.
We rented this home in
East Fort Lauderdale.
So she and I would go
out for date night a lot
and we'd have fun and like, I'd come home
and scare the kids.
I had like this skull
mask and I would like,
I'd call the girls and be like,
"Hey, we're gonna be about 30 minutes.
You guys good?"
And then I would immediately-
Oh man. Yeah.
That's hilarious. Yeah, it's great.
I got Halloween's big.
So was there school in
East Fort Lauderdale?
I went to Heritage.
Oh, okay. Yeah.
Okay. And that's why we ended up,
we ended up moving.
It was like when we, then we were like,
okay, well this doesn't work for us.
Yeah.
So we moved west to
Plantation because Jodi's like,
"I just don't want my
daughter driving on I-95."
Like, I don't wanna have to drive all the
way out to Plantation.
And then when she's old enough to drive,
I don't want her on 595 all the time.
Like she's always, she
puts the girls first always.
Like there's, it's
never, you're not even,
it's not even a discussion.
The girls first always.
She puts everyone.
Sometimes I wish she was more selfish.
I'm like, "Be more
selfish, you're allowed to."
You know, you always put everyone else
in your needs, but that's who she is.
And so yeah, we moved to Plantation
and then we finally bought our home
that we were in
Plantation for about 10 years.
Okay. Yeah.
And what did she do for a
living during those years?
She's in marketing.
She worked for a construction company
and ran their marketing group.
Okay.
And then when
everything kind of fell apart
with that company and you left.
She was there.
She was there supporting you.
You had that. 100%.
And it makes me feel
like that's the first time,
because you've had a lot of those moments
where things have just,
(imitates explosion)
Yeah.
And it's the first time
you had a partner there
to a rock supporting you.
So that's really nice.
You can do this.
Yeah, that you had that.
You had that.
Like if you don't, I got you.
You know, type things.
Were you guys married yet or just stayed?
So you weren't, were
you guys living together
when all that happened?
Okay.
And then, yeah, a lot of steps together.
You had that. So much going on.
And then living together
and then the two girls.
You guys went through a lot
even before getting married.
It's interesting.
I remember you said that she's,
comes from this military family
and is very black and white,
but yet that's such a
contrast to a fish head.
Yeah.
Oh, trust me.
But if you meld them,
it's a great combination.
If you meld that, those
two aspects of a personality,
it's very balanced.
You know?
Yeah, she's, yeah, because
as an example, during COVID,
she's like, let's just take off.
And we drove, she was
like, let's go to Maine.
And we just, let's grab the girls.
Let's grab, not the girls,
because the other two were in college.
And she's like, screw it.
Well, if you don't have to be anywhere,
let's just go up there.
And we stayed in
their family home in Maine
for like almost two months.
During COVID was great.
That's awesome.
Yeah, super.
And it was her idea, like, let's just go.
Yeah, yeah.
And she got that, you
know, that sort of peace, love,
happiness vibe about her.
Yeah, sometimes when things are in order
and organized and have a system,
it actually creates the
space to be spontaneous
and adventurous because
everything's kind of taken care of.
So now you can bounce
off that strong foundation
and go have some fun.
So that's why it's a nice little balance.
So where'd you guys get married?
Isla Marotta.
Nice.
Yeah.
And then had you taken
your next step professionally
before you guys got married?
Or were you still in limbo?
No, no.
Before I think I had, yeah, no.
So I had started the company.
The company you own now.
Own today, yeah.
So how long from the time you stopped
at that other company to
you starting your new company?
How much time?
30 days.
Okay, so you went for it.
All right, for it, yeah.
So did you kind of already know?
It was a mall again.
Okay.
It was a mall again.
Okay.
You know what a mall again is?
No.
In golf terms.
Golf, you hit a bad shot.
Okay.
And you just put another one down
and you hit a second one.
Okay, okay.
You forget about that one.
I was waiting for him to
kind of maybe explain that.
I'm glad you said something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Thanks, Brian.
We take a few of them, don't we?
I never take them when I'm golfing.
Yes, because you're very good.
Yes.
He can tell when I don't know something,
but usually I ask, but
I thought he was maybe
gonna explain.
Yeah, no.
Okay.
Yeah, so I quickly said I can do this.
Okay.
And if I don't, I don't.
And I went and got, you
know, I have a business partner.
He and I worked on it together.
I said, let's go with
the financing worked out
so we can make a transaction.
And let's find a couple very
key, very important people,
two really amazing
dudes who are brilliant.
And I loved, you know, loved every minute
working with those guys.
And yeah, we brought
them on and said start,
and we got one account,
we got a second account.
What's the name of your company?
Grayson Technologies.
Okay, and that was
what, like 15 years ago?
15 and a half, yeah.
It's been that long?
Yeah.
Wow, congrats.
Thank you.
That's awesome. That's amazing.
It really is amazing.
I mean, you think about it.
Like if you think about
what brought you to that point,
but I'm still wondering
where's the imposter syndrome?
Cause it doesn't sound like
there's any imposter syndrome.
When I'm by myself, you know, there,
I want, you know, we live in
an industry of very big boys,
billion dollar companies,
multi-billion dollar companies.
You see growth all around you,
whether it be real fake,
LinkedIn or what, you know,
you see it all around you.
And so every now and again,
you know, I go, am I, you know,
am I good enough?
Yeah.
I'll ask myself and then I'm on boards
and I'll sit in boards with
some really big time folks.
That gives me the
occasional imposter syndrome.
I'm like, do I know shit?
Or, you know, but do
you know what's funny is
I go through some of it and
then I also spend some time
with some big hitters and you go,
they don't know what
they're doing either.
I mean, we do, but we also don't.
And I was, I thought you guys
would get a kick out of this.
I was texting a buddy of mine.
I was a part of an organization
that brings entrepreneurs together.
And then within that you
get into these small circles.
It's called entrepreneurs organization
and you get into this
forum and my forum mates,
you get really close to these guys.
And I've gotten super
close with my forum mates.
And I was texting one of
them who is now one of,
he's like my brother
and he's my little bro.
And I text him like, oh man, you ever
have one of those days
where you just want to kill everybody?
You know, and we're joking, right?
You're just like everything, like every
person in your path,
you just want to have,
it's just, it's agitated.
Confrontation, he goes, like Tuesdays?
I go, it's very funny.
I go, Tuesdays tend to be tougher.
And we were joking and he goes, and then,
you know, I'll read it to
you because it was just,
it was just so right, you know?
And I, man, it's so accurate.
And he goes, he wrote,
I'm sorry for the delay.
No, you're fine.
He goes, because I said to him like, man,
and you know, you're
having one of these things
and you're working on your planning.
It tends to pop up when
you're working on your planning
because when you're
working on your planning,
you do start to talk about your rewards.
What do you want to fix?
When you say what do you want to fix,
you're admitting that
these things are wrong.
And it's really funny
because I think everyone thinks
that CEOs and
entrepreneurs have it figured out.
And we don't, right?
And we have some things figured out.
I mean, we're not,
you know, making it up.
But like, you want to fix rewards?
And I go, and I go, yeah, man.
And I'm like, and I said to him, I go,
yeah, this planning and he's really like,
well, how the fuck is
this still a problem?
And he replies, and then I go with,
how did I let it get this way?
Which is followed by
why do I fucking suck?
Which is followed by I hate myself.
Which is followed by a
long joint and a long walk.
And it's interesting
because I think what people don't,
sorry, I think what
people don't realize is,
especially
entrepreneurs and business owners,
you do blame yourself.
You're like, I'm responsible for
everything, no matter what.
And so if someone's
failing, it's my fault.
It's ultimately always my fault.
That's what the captain of the team
is supposed to think about, right?
It's like, I'm
responsible for everyone's success.
And they're accountable
to what they need to do.
I believe that like, hey, your
professionals go be it.
But the reality is, is, you know,
I always first say to
myself, like, did I fail them?
Am I not coaching them right?
Am I not holding them accountable?
Am I not doing this?
Mike Krzyzewski talks
about this a lot in his book,
where one of his coaches
would come up to him and say,
something to the effect of
like, hey, coach that player.
He just doesn't have it.
And he'll be like, did you coach him?
Yeah, I coached him.
Where did you coach him?
How did you coach him?
What was going on in his
life when you coached them?
And it made me think like,
oh, that's interesting in that
to connect to someone,
there's a lot more going on.
And oftentimes we say,
well, I told them what to do.
They didn't get it.
And that's their fault.
Bullshit.
I don't believe that at all.
Because I really feel
like you have to understand
where someone's at in the journey,
because if you're a good coach,
you're gonna figure out
a way to crack that nut.
In some way, shape or
form, if you're a good coach,
you're gonna improve that
person in some way, shape or form.
And you may not get
what you want, ultimately.
And of course, there's always that,
like someone may not want
it, someone may not get it,
someone may not have passion for it.
So there's reasons why
someone may not work out.
But I think we often,
we often don't reflect,
or not a lot of people
think about it that way,
but I do think a lot
of entrepreneurs think
the way me and my friend do,
where it's like, you blame yourself if
you're not connected,
if you're not getting
the best out of people.
It's almost like you
guys take imposter syndrome
and then lead it to,
that leads to self-awareness,
which leads to accountability.
You guys use it as a positive tool
to then look inward on yourselves,
and how can you do better for
the people that work for you
or for what you're responsible for?
But it doesn't derail
you, it doesn't stop you,
it doesn't make you
question yourself so much,
you lose confidence and you give up,
it actually motivates you to do better.
Not at first it didn't.
So when JD says, "I've grown,"
the truth is, at first it's very lonely.
So that person that I'm referring to
wrote that text,
he and I are 15 years
into our journeys each.
I remember when he and I
talked about joining this forum
and I told him about my business,
he's like, "Damn, can
I come work for you?"
And now he kills me,
his business is amazing.
But for several years there,
there was a window
where I got, you're lonely.
There's no one you can,
when things aren't going well,
there's no one you can really talk to.
That's why you have these organizations,
that's why they exist really.
And so people often talk
about how lonely it is at the top
and what I did not have
strong emotional intelligence
and did not have great awareness.
And I had crazy teenage
daughters in the house
and there's a lot going on, right?
And I definitely had a period where I
didn't handle it well
and I was disruptive.
And it stalled us and it
rubbed people wrong way.
And I candidly, I hurt a good
relationship in my life
because of that, right?
Because of the poor way I handled things,
like one of my best
friends who became a friend
instead of one of my best friends
just because of the way I treated him.
And I had to learn from
that and it was therapy.
Like I'm a big fan, big fan
of just any type of therapy.
I've met with four or
five different kinds
at different times in my life,
just because I feel like
therapy is a really cool way
to just vent without judgment.
And I think that's just
therapeutic in and of itself.
But I definitely met
someone along the way
who's like, let's break
down your personality.
So I started doing personality tests.
And they're like, you understand,
this is your fight or flight
and that's why you're acting this way.
And for me, when
someone started showing me
the way the puzzle was put together,
it made it very easy for me to go, cool,
I don't have to do that again.
And I started thinking
and reading a little bit
about stoicism and
really just kind of trying
to be less emotional, more thoughtful
about the things I do.
And I'm still an Italian
crazy man who will be passionate,
sometimes a little
impatient and every now and again,
but the loneliness is
like the, why do I suck?
I hate myself.
That's a glimmer, that
used to be long and hurtful.
And when you're hurt,
you have a fight response
or a fight or flight response.
For me, my response was
like, I'm gonna be combative.
Many people get distant and then their
businesses will fail
because they run away from them.
They'll just ignore them,
pluck their head in their sand.
So it took me a while
to learn how to be better
at dealing with it.
But when I get into a dark
place about anything going on,
I just remind myself that I am so lucky
to have this stress.
So many people would trade me to be like,
I'd love to know what that looks like.
It sucks, but they'd love
to know what it looks like,
to have the journey and to learn from it.
And so it helps me
snap out of my dark place
to remind myself that it's pretty cool.
That's such a great
perspective to think about
when you're really under stress,
because as a result of something
that you're working hard on,
that so many people would love to have
this kind of stress.
That's such a great perspective.
That is such a great perspective.
And I mean, the growth, the
growth you've gone through,
when you do have those moments,
and like you said, it's
almost like a snapshot now.
It doesn't take you down where
for a super long length of time.
But are those moments
also positive for you
because it shows you how far you've come?
Yeah, those are pretty neat.
Like I share something.
So I had a moment today, this
is a really neat thing for me.
So my daughter's helping
the business out a little bit
from a recruiting perspective.
It's her background
while she's doing her MBA.
But she gets invited to
company events, if you will.
We had a big all hands today.
And I try to tell the team how we did,
what we're working on,
and really try to connect
the dots on some motivation.
And she called me right after.
She's literally tearing up.
She's like, that was
one of the coolest things.
She got to see dad at work.
Now, I don't know if my
employees thought it was as cool,
but for her to see it for the first time,
that was really nice.
That's awesome.
Yeah, it was really cool experience.
And so, yeah, like how do you else
to introduce the kids to work, right?
That's not always the easiest thing.
I think sometimes I think we often think
what we do is boring, right?
Like try to tell the
story about building networks.
Yeah, yeah.
Right, not so cool.
Yeah, let me show you my whiteboard.
You understand this packet.
Yeah, like no.
So, right.
So, yeah, and so that's a great moment.
Yeah, and those are the
little things that help.
Also, like I've seen some
people leave the organization
and grow and be better.
That, not always is
everyone gonna recognize
the skills they've developed.
I don't need the credit,
but like when I see
someone else be successful,
I think that I've
taught them some of that.
And like, that's what I really hope
for the people around me,
that they're all growing
in some way, shape or form.
That's the hardest thing.
And what's really hard
is like, I wanna grow.
Bigger, so that I have more
responsibility to offer people.
So, whenever I'm not
growing as fast as I want,
part of it is like, I
wanna be able to offer more
to the team so that they
can continue to grow, right?
And there's like only some,
sometimes there's limitations in that
because like revenue is revenue.
And if you can't just give
over a whole bunch of people
a bunch of jobs, if
there's no money around
and that kind of stuff.
And so sometimes they have to leave
to go find their other journey.
But I hope that over time,
the people that have been
through the organization
have grown and will use
something that they learned
in some way, shape or
form in another place.
I'm sure their experience at your company
has been pivotal to the
trajectory of their life.
There's no question about it.
And I think your intent with your company
is so authentic and positive
that you're wanting to
grow it so you can give more
to the people that work for you.
That's your intent.
I mean, that's just such a,
that there's, I'm not
surprised you're successful
and that you've lasted this long
because of the authenticity
and because of your intent.
So many companies, so many CEOs,
you can't necessarily say that about.
So I think that says a
lot for where you are.
I have a question though.
How does this tie back
to imposter syndrome?
Yeah, so I think the imposter syndrome
is when we're not growing.
Do you think that's a,
you've grown your business.
I know people that
you've developed people.
I've seen them go from,
I've seen their growth, right?
I think you've made a lot
of people a lot of money.
I think you've developed or deployed
some really killer solutions, right?
So for all intents and
purposes, you've made it
and you continue to make
it, you continue to evolve.
I just wonder if that's an expectation
you're putting on yourself
to not necessarily accept
that you've done some really cool shit.
That's a thousand.
Like the, like, my wife talks about,
like you're not fair to yourself.
You're, what's that?
Your own worst enemy.
Not your own worst enemy,
but your harshest critic.
Harshest critic, yeah.
I had a friend, a friend of hers really
touched me one time.
I was really having a tough, tough,
tough, tough go of it
for several months and shit
some friends in from London.
And it's her best friend
and they live in London
her husband is this is really surreal.
You'd love this dude.
He's like, "Hey, oh,
it's really important."
You know, you'd be one
of those and I'm like,
"Okay, you sound really smart."
Right?
Like, but he is brilliant.
But he's brilliant and he's gone
through some life experiences.
And what's really funny is, is I'm like,
"You guys go down to the keys.
I'll meet you there.
I got you to do blah, blah, blah."
And I'm like, "Rush, rush, rush, rush,
rush, rush, rush, rush."
And I drive down and I leave the
suitcases at the house
hour and a half.
Two hour drive.
"Budge, and I'm like,
"I'm just gonna turn around
and I'll just deal with it.
And I'm gonna drive two
hours and two hours, you know,
eight to 10, 10 to midnight."
You know, I'm just gonna deal with it.
And I remember Mark
talking to me and Mark's like,
"Be kind to yourself, mate."
He's like, "You're not
being kind to yourself.
You got a lot going on."
And he's giving me this whole thing.
And I was like, "I've kept that."
A lot anytime I'm being really hard.
And I get a lot of people
that know me really well.
No, I kicked my own butt a lot.
So maybe I'm calling
it imposter syndrome,
but sometimes you wonder if, you know,
like people are like,
"You're an entrepreneur."
I'm like, "I started one business."
You know what I mean?
Like I had a desperation
because this guy passed.
Yeah, but again, you're 15 years in.
Yeah, yeah.
You got taking stock in that.
Yeah.
You just gotta do it sometimes
because we are a harshest critic,
but also I always say
like to remind myself,
treat yourself, do
onto yourself the advice
you would give to your best friend.
So what would I say if
I was my best friend,
what would I, how would I treat myself?
And what advice would I give myself?
I need to treat myself as good
as I would treat my best friend.
That's hard.
Because we give to our
friends and to our family
and then don't even
think about ourselves.
No, we never think about ourselves.
No.
I get mad at my wife because I'm like,
you don't think about yourself.
Like she could literally reverse it.
Exactly.
In many respects, who do you?
Absolutely.
Which is funny about my
buddy's text back to me
because it's just so
raw and honest, right?
He's just like, "And
then I'm like, practice.
When am I practice that?"
And then I go smoke a joint, take a walk.
And I'm like, "Yes."
He's right though.
He's right.
He's right.
Because you just go
through the emotional ladder,
bang, bang, bang, bang,
and then you take a moment.
And sometimes, by the way, walking,
we talked about that like, wow.
It's huge.
Wish I'd have realized that was amazing.
I know, it's huge.
I work out, but
walking, for me, it's blinkist.
Like I do those little micro learning.
And it even helped me today.
Like I listened to this
thing called the science
of leadership and I just
kind of went through it.
And I was like, "Oh,
that's really interesting."
And I pivoted a large
part of my presentation today
based on what I learned on my walk
at six thirty in the morning.
Yeah, no, walking's insane.
I think we mention it
in almost every episode
somehow walking comes up.
It's such a gift.
So you sent two off to college?
Yeah.
And that happened a
few years apart, right?
They're four years apart?
Yeah.
So you get one off,
another one through high school,
another one off to college.
So then are you empty nesters?
Were you empty nesters or?
Never empty nesters,
we have a 10 year old.
Okay, so.
Yeah, we skipped that part.
Yeah, I know.
In between there, there was another.
Yeah, yeah, so then, so let's,
so you guys get married,
you've got your middle school,
you're going to high
school, you're humming along.
Right, we've got a year
later, a year and a half later.
A year and a half later.
So we decided, we looked at
each other and we're like,
"Should we have a kid?"
And I'm like, "I don't
know, life's pretty good
"and we're gonna be empty nesters
"in like three or four years."
And should we, should we not?
Or it was like five years,
"Should we, should we not?
"Should we, should we not?"
In my head, I'm like,
"Why don't we get married
"if I'm not gonna have a job?"
And so we're like, "All right, let's."
Practice. Let's practice.
It turns out we're
both very fertile people.
He's like, "A day
later, she's like a bride."
Right?
That's a good problem.
Right, it is a good
problem, we're very blessed.
And, you know, Presley
was born, healthy, happy,
absolutely unified the family.
At the time, the
girls weren't that close,
but having a sister that they share, oof.
Yeah. Oof, my little.
And she is, she's just
the most perfect blend
of the two of us.
She is as sweet and nice as the,
like anyone, like just so sweet and nice.
Absolute kook, hysterical.
And the kids at school rip her apart
because they all
wanna spend time with her.
So like, she's the best.
And we have just been
like, and by the way,
like when the girls were
young and Presley was young,
we had built in babysitters.
So actually the first like
three, four, five years of,
Jodie and I were, we
were just great parents.
Yeah, yeah. We were like,
we went out on dates all the time.
Right now, they both went to school,
we're like, shit, not as easy.
Now it's expensive, I gotta buy,
I get a babysitter. Babies are expensive.
They are, they are. What a racket.
How wonderful though, honestly,
because I always say, cause we have a,
we have a bonus baby.
So, and our oldest and
him are 13 years apart
and our daughter and
him are 10 years apart.
But I always say, I didn't know our
family wasn't complete
until we had him.
And then our family's complete.
But for you guys, what a beautiful,
unifying experience.
Like you said, for the girls,
and I'm sure Presley's
the most parented child
out of the whole family,
cause all of you, all of you.
The other girl like, what?
Yeah. I was like,
your favorite.
Yeah. I'm like, well.
Don't tell anyone.
Yeah. So.
We get into that too.
Have they, cause are they
both out of college now?
Yes, one's in, one's engaged.
Oh, congratulations.
Yeah, the oldest is engaged, so exciting.
That's exciting. I know.
And super dude.
That's awesome. Super dude.
That's awesome.
So happy.
The other one is in Madrid.
Wow.
And with another super dude.
Nice. And doing a master's program.
Oh, that's awesome.
And she's thriving.
And so we are Pinterest.
We're so blessed right now.
Now where does your older one live?
North Carolina.
Okay.
And so how often do you
guys all get together?
We try to do once a year, all five of us.
Not as often, the short
answer is not as often as we want.
Yeah.
With the middle moving to Madrid,
that's gonna make
things super complicated.
Although in November,
we're going to see her.
Oh, exciting.
Yeah, she just got
there a couple months ago.
So we'll go there and we're gonna meet
the boyfriend's family.
Is he from there?
Yeah, so he was an exchange student
at Indiana University where she went
and that's how they met.
Okay. Senior year.
And so they fell in love.
Then they did a
little long distance stuff.
So last Christmas, we all went to,
we've got a home in the
North Carolina mountains.
We all went to North Carolina mountains
and we hung out and it was amazing.
That's wonderful. Like it was amazing.
It was the oldest and her
fiance, that's where he asked her.
On the deck of the home.
So you guys were there?
Right there.
It's like homework.
It really was.
That's awesome. It really was.
He was so nervous.
He was like, "This
thing burned in my pocket."
Did he ask permission?
He did.
And I said, "You asked the wrong person."
(laughing)
Because he asked me anyway, he's like,
"Greg, I wanna do this."
And I was like, "What?"
And I told Jodi and
then somewhat Jodi's like,
"He is supposed to ask me."
And I go, "You're absolutely right."
He is and then I called him, I'm like,
"Yo, dude."
He's like, "You're right."
So he fixed that.
Wonderful.
And then we had a big family reunion.
We did a big family reunion,
like 25 of us or so recently in Maine.
And they asked me to
officiate the wedding.
Oh, wonderful. Cool.
Will it be your first one?
Yeah, I gotta go do some stuff, don't I?
Jeez, I didn't think about that.
What are they getting married?
Call Jodi.
When?
They don't have a date.
June, July, next year or something.
They haven't landed on
the exact same date yet.
You have some time.
I do.
To pull together.
So that's lovely.
Yeah, it's really great.
So I mean, it's just,
but you guys are also
actively parenting a 10-year-old.
I know, we're gonna be, we joke.
We'll be grandparents
and have like a teenager.
Yeah, but then the
teenager will have a baby
to hang when she sees her.
So it's so interesting.
I wonder how this is gonna go.
Like when my wife's oldest
has the first grandchild,
I'm like, I keep saying to myself,
like, am I ever gonna,
like Jodi's gonna be on
a plane gone, thank you.
They're gonna be there, right?
So it's gonna be really
interesting on how this all works.
Yeah.
Press and I, like our
relationship's amazing.
Like we do a lot of cool stuff together.
So we're, you know, it's gonna be great.
Like, I mean, it'll be a blessing.
We'll figure it out.
You will.
But we're trying to do
like a vacation individually
with each kid.
And then we try to do one everywhere.
That kind of goes back to
how your dad approached things
with you and your brothers.
I guess so.
Yeah.
Yeah, I didn't think about that.
That's really neat.
Kind of a full circle moment.
Yeah, totally.
I never had to piece that together.
Yeah, that's really cool.
Is Presley involved in
any sports or theater?
Yeah, so both.
She's not the best athlete in that.
Like it just doesn't,
the eye hand coordination,
all those things don't
come in supernaturally.
She tries so hard.
She's a better runner,
she's a great swimmer.
Got her in golf, just some running.
We're working on some volleyball.
She does love to sing.
And she was in the school play
and she keeps, is in the choir now
and she's working on that.
So she really loves that.
She's got a little bit
of a theater bug to her.
That's cool.
Which is really cool.
Maybe you'll be running
lines with her in a couple years.
Yeah, totally.
Like, let me tell you what, we drive,
every time we're in the cars,
she's like, "Can we
put on Kids Bop Radio?"
And she just, she sings
every song in the place.
That's awesome.
Everyone just felt them out.
That's awesome.
Yeah, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
Well, I think that's amazing, honestly.
I did wanna ask you for
the younger generation,
for the Gen Zs that are
just getting out of college
or in their mid-20s and are just
beginning this journey
and trying to figure things out.
What's a piece of advice you'd give them?
I mean, one, I think that,
I think that there's, you have to realize
that real life is not
about instant gratification.
And they live in a world where,
the social media is
instant dopamine drips, right?
But the really
important things take forever.
They take a long time,
but they matter more.
And those are
relationships and real relationships.
And like, I mean, I am
the most blessed person
on relationships.
My circle of friends is incredible.
And when I put them together, like it's,
like our wedding was magic.
It was two and a, it was
three days of just straight love,
like everybody.
And so I don't think they
have as deep relationships
as they could.
And I wish they would invest more
in deep, good relationships,
cause that's real.
And I think they have to understand like,
especially in my sales world,
I see these things where like,
the gamification of the whole thing to,
you know, like these companies are smart
and they're hiring these younger people
and they're just like
running them like this.
And people have no idea.
They don't take time to understand
what someone else's life is
like, was really like, right?
Like job to do transaction, move on.
They don't necessarily
know what the other person
on the other side of that
transaction has to deal with.
And professionally, I think
the people that will invest
in that and
understanding that are going to be
more successful than their peers
because that's what will last.
And not only that,
it'll make them better,
professionally, cause they'll be more,
they'll like, it's way
easier to work with a person
if you understand what they're doing.
And you can, you know,
they're not gonna volunteer it.
Yes. You have to really dig in.
Authenticity, it sounds
like, being truly authentic.
Yeah. But like really,
like you have to, yes.
But I mean, I think that some people
think they're authentic
because like you ask
them about themselves
and they're very open.
But to me, it's like, you have to
actually think about
like really about the other,
what is the other person going through?
You really have to stop
thinking about yourself
and be like, what does
this mean to someone else?
And I think they have
to trust that that works.
You know, I don't think
they trust that that works
cause it's not instant.
But you know, if you really care about
what someone else is going through,
eventually, like it
does come back in space.
And my life journey has
been a lot of that reward,
you know, the doing the right thing,
ultimately coming
back eventually over time
and, you know, pinch me
because I'm very blessed.
But I also did the right thing
and worked my tail off
and went through some lumps together.
When do you think, cause
I totally agree with you.
And I feel like I do that more now
than I've ever done that before,
where I do try to put
myself in someone else's mindset
to think about it.
What did they do?
So from the time they woke up,
time did they go, you know,
almost get to that level.
You need some level of
emotional intelligence
that would get there, right?
So that's gotta be a
newer concept for you,
don't you think, as opposed to
when you first started, obviously.
I wish.
You know, I wish someone
taught me that a long time ago.
Do you think it's teachable
or it's just
self-learned through experience?
So I think it's teachable,
but whether or not you're ready,
I think it has to do with whether or not
you're ready to receive it.
So I think it's
teachable because by the way,
it was taught to me,
but I happened to be
in a position in which
if I didn't start learning about it,
I was in real trouble.
Yeah.
And so I was ready to receive it.
And you know, the
person I work with on that,
she always, she's like,
damn, I love working with you
because I can give you a
concept and you just bite it.
Like, I got this.
And it's really funny, right?
You know, you get a little older
and so many of us wanna talk about like,
well, my childhood was really hard.
And that's why the
truth of the matter is,
you know, at some point you go,
all right, my childhood was hard.
That triggers this part in me,
but I don't have to do that.
That's a choice.
Yes.
You know, we all wanna blame something.
We're really quick to
blame why I am the way I am,
but we never remember that acting away,
it's a choice.
Every day we are filled
with choices, you know?
And so I think that is
what we try to coach people on
is like, you're still making a choice.
And I've coached like each
one of my team, you know,
I try to spend as much time
as I can with individuals.
That's hard to get to everyone, right?
Yeah.
It's interesting, one of our clients,
the CIO posted something the
other day about being on a,
you know, a pilot being
really upset with all of like
yelling and screaming at
the people on the carrier,
be like, my plane wasn't
ready the way I wanted to
and the admiral or
the captain of the ship
made him work with
each of those individuals.
And when you see what they have to go
through in the trenches
and makes you a better leader,
you can really understand
what they're going through.
And I can do better at that in spades
even though I still
try to do a lot of it,
like to really understand
what they're going through.
I don't think a lot of people do that.
And I think that's big.
But also, you know, a friend of mine
who's very
successful, he has this saying,
because people are like, oh man,
I wish I had what you have.
They take it, take all of it.
Take my whole journey.
Take the really, you know,
take the really hard stuff.
You can't have all the good stuff.
You gotta take all of it.
I think that's a really
interesting perspective.
Yeah. Yes.
So many people, they just want the good
and they don't understand
what it takes to get here.
That ties back to when
you were talking about
the younger generation
and that dopamine hit
and that instant gratification.
And understanding that there's a journey
that got to that reward.
They say you just see the
tip of the iceberg, right?
It's that old cliche.
There's so much you're not seeing.
But it sounds to me like to sum up
what you're talking
about, a lot of it's empathy,
putting yourself in your client's shoes.
Yeah, yeah. And integrity.
Integrity and empathy.
The combination of those two things,
making the right
decisions, doing the right thing.
But then applying
empathy, those two together.
Yeah, I think that's a
lost skill right now,
customer empathy.
Yeah. Yeah, oh God, I think.
It's unfortunate.
I've run into people
professionally that have zero.
Zero.
I was in a conversation the other day
where some manufacturer
representative came over to my rep
and they were like, "Hey, can we get,
"you think the customer could sign this
contract this month?"
And my rep's like,
"No, I don't think so."
The decision maker's traveling.
Oh, well, can't someone else sign it?
Yeah. No, the decision maker's traveling.
Well, do you think we can contact them?
Like, no, they're on vacation in Europe.
We'll be like, "Well, listen,
"I told my boss I'd
bring it in this month.
"So like, can we just
get someone else to do it?
"Like, can you call his boss?"
Like, "Dude, like, are you,
what the hell's going on?"
Right, and it took
everything I had not to be like,
"You need to get the
hell out of here, pal.
"Like, we're not
working with you ever again."
I was so upset.
It made me so mad,
because I'm like, "Dude, like,
"do you not understand?
"Like, you know, like, you want to just
break all the rules?"
No, empathy matters. That's just stupid.
Well, yeah, it was in part stupid.
It's beyond just stupid.
And there's some bad
coaching, unfortunately.
Do you think so?
There are companies that
reward that, right, Brian?
Maybe they're just not, you know,
we're just not one of those.
Do you think, though, that's inherent
to the compensation
plan of most companies
in the industry now?
Is it just gone?
I don't think it's, I think it's the
measurement as well.
I think it's hard to say
it's just the compensation.
I think it has a lot to
do with the measurement.
Like, okay, so think about it.
You're an up and
coming technology company.
You've been given a ton
of money by private equity.
Well, they want to return for that money.
And what they want you to do
is deploy that money to grow.
It's the only way, the
only reason they're giving you
the money is they want to see you grow.
So then they hire growth-oriented folks.
And if you hire the wrong ones,
like, you can hire some great,
there are great leaders out there who
know how to be like,
"Hey, this is high value.
Let's position it as high value.
We can go in.
Here's where you position it."
There are other people
who, you know, got the job
and they're a little over their skis.
You know, I was over my skis younger.
A little more on top of them now,
but that they're over their skis.
And so they're just like whiplash,
like by any means necessary.
And that does, that will exist.
By the way, I don't think that's new.
I think there's always
been companies that exist
only by whiplash.
And they look for people that, you know,
will work within that model, right?
But you know, you imagine that,
I left a little bit
because I didn't like that model
all that mattered was this one.
That's just never gonna be,
like I was never okay
with that, you know?
Yeah, and that ties back to your intent
and you play the long
game with your clients.
That's what I was gonna say.
The reason you've been
doing this for so long
and growing and doing well is you're
playing the long game.
It's much different than
next month or this month.
100%.
Yeah.
But the--
It's more rewarding.
It's an investment.
It is. It is.
We tell our reps when
they join us, we go,
own your own business.
So you own a business.
We want you to invest in that business.
This is how that investment pays off.
And I think my most
successful people have
grabbed onto that and they really,
that is who they are culturally.
They're long-term people and, excuse me,
the more we can find long-term people
that think like that,
that wanna grow and build,
they're gonna be successful.
That makes sense.
That's such a great approach.
You know what's interesting?
What I've realized is you
interview all these people
and you're looking for,
they show you success.
Like look at my WT, look
at my W2, look at this.
But what you have to
realize is the way in which
they are successful
has to align with the way
you wanna be successful.
That's really hard actually.
And we've failed plenty of times.
Well, especially in tech.
Especially in tech, right?
Because they're smart
people, but they've gotta fit in.
And it's the big trick is
to building the right teams
so they become high-performing teams,
but they're also
content or happy or get along.
And there's some sense of reward.
Because it's easy to find smart people,
but to have smart people
meld together is tough.
It's the real trick.
It's like the gold mine when you,
it's almost like you're the maestro.
What's that for a
symphony, the conductor?
The conductor.
And when your
symphony all comes together,
it's like a gold mine
for you in every way,
not just the payback for the company.
Yeah, I think it's a
gold mine for the employees.
Honestly, when they're,
and when I let it get off and I say I,
because like when it gets off the tracks,
it's my responsibility.
You know, you can see that you're like,
oh, we're not nearly as aligned.
It's not the right word,
but it's not as smooth.
It's interesting that you,
it feels like I could see
where you could get into a funk.
Oh yeah.
And then, so how do you deal with that?
And how do you deal with it now,
say compared to 10 years ago?
The way I dealt with it
today, since it's top of mine,
is I tried to share a lot today about
a little bit of what it
takes in the form of courage
for each person to do their job.
That, you know, the
sales rep has to have courage
to risk the relationship they have, okay?
Which is very fragile, always, right?
It's like, think about how
gold that relationship is.
And then that
person's gonna trust my rep.
One of my reps says, we can do this.
Yeah.
Right, because I really
coach more on services
than anything else.
Like, as long as we think services,
the rest of the, all
the product stuff happens.
You know what I mean?
Because that's where the value is.
Product is easy.
It is, and there are plenty of companies
that just do product,
and there are some people
that only value product.
100%.
Right?
Yeah.
Purchasing people often, only value,
they think of it as a
skew, but, you know.
So anyway, coaching them, it was like,
look, the sales rep has to have courage
that the rest of us are gonna do the job
they promised them that we would do.
The solution
architects have to have courage
that their estimate is accurate,
that they've heard the customer,
they understand the needs,
and they understand what
this job's gonna look like,
and they get it from both sides,
both the customer and internally,
because if I say it's 100
hours and it ends up 200,
everybody's mad.
And so they have to have a lot
of courage to take that risk.
And then I go, and the delivery team
has to have courage, right?
Because we're going into the firefight,
and sometimes implementing stuff
that is relatively new to market.
It's like, not all the
playbook's been written already.
You know?
That's a real thing.
Like, technology hits the street,
someone's got to
install it the first time.
And we have this lab,
and they can practice
as much as you want,
but you still have to
show up on game time.
And I talked a little bit
about my acting and all that,
but I talked about that courage.
This fear right here,
that thing in your gut,
that's a great thing.
Butterflies represent that you care.
That's what butterflies really,
you have butterflies
because you want to do great.
So you're nervous.
And we talked a little bit about,
you know, we really want to do great.
Everybody's, and so what I
was trying to talk about today,
and I don't know if I landed it,
was just that really
high performing teams
are accountable to each other.
And the reason they're
accountable to each other
is that you trust that
that person's going to be able
to do their job, and that they're aligned
that you're trying to do yours well,
and they're trying to do yours well.
And we're all aligned.
What we're trying to do is create
a really awesome customer experience.
And if we're all aligned
on that, we have that trust,
then the courage becomes easier
because once you have that trust,
that we're all
swimming in and looking out
for the same thing, courage is easy.
And then everyone else can do that.
And everyone can do their
job with greater courage.
That's where growth comes from.
And that was kind of the message today.
That's a great message.
You know. It's a great message.
You're the captain of a team again.
No, it's where I belong.
You know, it really is.
I am rewarded every day.
I do love to be the captain of the team.
I have no problem.
I played goalkeeper.
My mom hated, it was really funny,
because my mom said to me all the time,
she's like, "I really worry.
I don't want you to be the goalkeeper,
the pitcher, or the quarterback."
I remember talking about
this, and I'm like, "Why?"
She's like, "Because if you fail,
like if you guys lose,
it's all your fault."
I was like, "I can handle that."
I was like, "I guess
kind of felt like, yeah,
but I also can be the hero."
Yeah.
You know? Yeah.
And I like being the hero.
Yeah.
And it's worth the risk to you.
It is. To be the hero.
But it sucks.
Because as a CEO and entrepreneur,
there's definitely failures.
Like you just don't get them all right.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
But one of your greatest talents,
and you've alluded to this,
is your skill at relationship building.
And I just listened
to you apply it again,
talking to your team.
You create a relationship,
not just with your clients,
but with your team,
with each one of them.
You're doing that.
And again, playing the long game,
putting the
investment into your people is,
I think probably one of the main reasons
you're so successful.
And it's that
relationship talent you have
to connect with people.
It's really, it's been fascinating to
listen to your story
and see it present itself
in almost every aspect of your life.
So here's a lesson I didn't learn
until the downside of
relationship building.
Was that I cared so
much about the people,
because like, you know,
we've talked a little bit
about like these lifelong
relationships that I have.
And so at work, I wasn't as clear
because I was worried about
hurting feelings, downside.
Cause I work with certain people.
I've worked with some people
for over 15 years, you know?
In your, sometimes you can't deliver,
not that you can't,
but like I screwed up
delivering bad news.
And, or just call it
constructive criticism.
And one guy taught me
something, you know him,
but he said, I'd rather you just tell me
I'm doing a bad job.
And unfortunately it was the
tail end of our relationship.
And I love this guy who's superb.
He was superb, but he
needed change, right?
But I failed him
because I wasn't direct enough
about where he was messing up
earlier in our relationship.
Like I should have been direct.
I was like, that's not acceptable.
You're better than that.
This isn't working.
Instead I was like, Hey, do
you think we could maybe try to,
I don't know how you feeling all this.
And I let our relationship get in the way
of clearly communicating.
And what I learned was to
show respect to the relationship
was to communicate clearly with them.
And that, again, oops,
you know, like, all right,
write that one down in the journal.
That's great advice though.
And have boundaries.
Yeah, like, you know, many people,
especially
professionally would prefer, you know,
non-emotional, very important, but clear,
like this isn't working, right?
Some people won't respond
well to it, unfortunately,
because it still hurts to hear
that you're not doing something, right?
Such a tough, tough dynamic, man.
When you're managing people
and over time
personal relationships evolve
and you do care.
You do. You do care.
And that's a tough one.
That's a tough one.
And you're like, hey, I
know that you're working
12 hour days killing yourself for us,
but you're doing it wrong.
And because you're doing it wrong,
it's resulting in 12 hour days.
And the thing that broke my
heart about that whole thing
is like, I feel like it came off.
I think he feels like I didn't appreciate
all the blood, sweat and tears
like if I could tell, I
mean, I have told him,
like the appreciation for
the blood, sweat and tears,
unbelievable what he gave.
But that hit its limit.
So we had to re-event and get better at
the way we do things
because I didn't want
them working 12 hour.
Like I really don't want,
I want you home in front of your kids
and I want you at the ball game.
And I give all my,
every one of my, you know,
on my team knows, like make
that window for your family.
Those are finite moments.
Like I will argue, I
think that's our culture.
In some respects,
other cultures are like,
I don't care about all that.
Like just go drive when?
No, mine is like, make
sure you have that time,
but get your job done at different hours,
but make sure you put
that priority in your life.
And it was killing me to watch how hard
that guy was working.
And then you could see it
impact his relationships
with others because, you know,
when you're pushed to
the limit and someone is,
like just created more work for you,
you know, you're going
to snap sooner or later.
It's a work.
And I knew it.
I knew it, I knew it.
I just didn't communicate clearly
that we need to fix this
earlier in the process.
Sounds like he was burning out.
A little bit.
Yeah.
And by the way, like there
was a point where I was burning
out and I wasn't there for him either,
to give him the coaching.
And by the way, he
said, I'll pick up the baton
and he deserves a lot of
credit for that, you know?
Yeah.
It's hard sometimes to
tell people to work smarter
and not harder.
Yeah.
That's a tough one.
Well, because--
How do you communicate
that without it coming
across the wrong way?
That's just, that's tough because
everybody's different.
Yeah, I don't know.
We'll want to write a
book on it because it's hard.
It's really hard.
I think also we have to show.
What do you mean?
I think they, I think
what I learned was I wish
I would have said, okay,
either I'm going to do it
or you're going to do it,
but we're going to go find
outside help of someone who has done it.
Because see, I knew it was wrong.
I didn't necessarily
know how to do it right.
I knew what was right, but I
didn't know how to say like,
this is how we're going to fix this,
this is how we're going to fix this,
this is how we're going to fix it, right?
And so what's funny
is after it broke down,
I had to go out for
external help to come fix
what was broken.
And I'm like, shit, man,
why didn't I just go find
that external help
first and coach him and say,
let me go find that.
And I wish I would have
pushed harder and been clearer.
Because sometimes too,
you bring in outside help
and they're like, oh,
you're judging me or you're--
No, that's the
landmine right there, right?
Massive landmine.
And so I also realized that
I have to be massively clear
about the why, but you
know, it's funny, right?
Like I'm a solver, so I'm solving.
And then I've solved and I'm
like, look, I found this guy
to fix this problem.
And they're like, what problem?
Yeah.
And so it's one of the
hardest things Brian is
how long that journey has to be.
You want it to be a one
hour conversation like this,
this, this, you got it,
cool, we're ready to go.
But it has to be like, hey, meeting one.
This is what we're
seeing and this is the result.
Hey, meeting two, I
think we need to get better
here, here, here.
Hey, meeting three, would it be valuable
if we could find an outsider to help us?
Hey, meeting four, okay, let's interview
a few of these guys.
Okay, meeting five, you
know, like it's a journey
to do it right.
That level of patience is hard.
It almost--
In our frenetic pace
solved right now world.
Yeah.
It's super hard to slow down.
Yeah.
But that is where the real magic,
I think that's what the
better leaders have figured out.
Well, I think it also almost sounds like
if someone's not positioned for success,
that's almost where that may be started.
I don't know the background on this one,
but if they're not
positioned and set up for success,
then it just, it's hard.
You almost have to cut it out,
stop it sooner and
reposition that person.
By the way, like, you know,
there is success on
this part of the journey
and then we hit
something and we have to reinvent
what success looks like.
Well, no--
And that's really hard,
you're like, wait a minute,
you told me to be a welder,
I'm the best welder in the world,
now you're telling me
welding isn't important?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think--
That's tough, right?
That's tough, yeah.
Like you just told me to do this
for the last five, eight years.
Yeah.
And you thanked me along the way.
Yeah.
And you paid me well
and you celebrated it
and now you're telling
me I'm doing it wrong?
Yeah.
I'm like, that's not what
I mean, I don't mean wrong,
but it does come off as wrong.
Right.
You know, it's a fascinating thing
because I think you
would agree with this.
One of the things I tell my folks,
I'm a people manager too,
and I'm constantly saying we
have to reinvent ourselves.
You have to reinvent yourself.
Maybe you have done this to your point.
You've been welding
for the last five years.
It's time to become a plumber.
You can still weld,
but you need to now become a plumber
and now you need to become an electrician
because the market shifted the,
especially with AI, right?
Technology's moving fast.
You've got to be able to pivot
and continue to reinvent yourself.
If you embrace it, it's fun.
So Carly Dweck, do you
know who Carly Dweck?
Is it Carly Dweck?
I don't think that's her name.
Dweck is her lesson.
Growth mindset.
She writes this book, Growth Mindset.
You talked about it
earlier, Growth Mindset.
Yeah.
Massively powerful thing
that we all need to think more about
because the idea of a sort
of a static mindset, right?
Like this is who I am
versus I'm always learning.
I'm always on a journey.
That helped me a lot.
Like listening to
this, there was a master.
I subscribed to Masterclass.
There was a Masterclass.
I was like, "Oh, look, Steve Young."
This is how simple my brain is.
Football player I like, go, right?
Still a Neanderthal
at the end of the day.
He's a smart dude.
Smart dude, right?
And he tells a story
about how he was at BYU
and he's like, "Oh, wait a minute.
I'm like one of the best
quarterbacks in the country
and I get to BYU and I'm
number five on the depth chart.
What the hell?"
And he could have stayed there and said,
you know, this is who
I am, blah, blah, blah.
But he goes to see Steve, not McMahon.
Yeah, McMahon.
And he sees something
about the way he throws, right?
And he looks at it
and he's like, "Oh man."
So he goes, "For the next
year, all I did was change
and work on the way I
threw to create more zip."
And once I created that,
I went from five to one.
And it was just all about
life being a massive journey,
always learning,
always this growth mindset.
And that to me, I think is how do we
instill that in people
as early as possible?
Yeah, very true.
Just be ready for failure, right?
And not scared of it.
No, not scared of
it's part of the journey.
It is.
It's all like failure is a gift.
It's part of the learning.
It's how you gauge success.
Yeah.
You know, and also it's a
motivator and you learn,
like you just said, I
think so many of us Gen Xers
that are in our midlife
are really starting to lean
into growth mindset
because as we're going
to this next stage of our
life, we're not going quietly.
We wanna continue to tackle
life and get uncomfortable
and grow and change.
And I so wish somebody
would have talked to me
about growth mindset when I was 25.
And I think it'd be
such a gift to pass on
to the younger generation
and help them understand
you can get so much more
out of life with that mindset.
It's not even optional
at this point though.
There are none of those
traditional jobs and roles.
They're growing up on a
growth mindset, I think,
because technology moves fast.
But in order for kids today to survive,
not even thrive, but just survive,
you have to continue to adapt.
I feel like the world's changed enough
since when we were younger.
There's no, I'm gonna go
get a job at the Ford plant
or I'm gonna become an IBM
rep for 30 years and retire.
Like we grew up, I
remember growing up like,
oh, go get a job at IBM.
I don't think that exists anymore.
Maybe it does, maybe it
doesn't, I don't know.
But there's still people
that are in regular jobs.
Yeah, I think they're regular jobs.
They're regular jobs.
They don't last as well.
Yeah, but I mean--
That's what I mean, yeah.
Yeah, but just what I'm saying is--
You're gonna grow at some point.
To not settle, to not settle.
Because it's gonna get disrupted.
Yeah, but I mean,
there's people that get a job
and it can be even a job
as like a server, right?
And they can get kind of
stuck into this is who I am,
this is what I'm doing.
But if you have that
growth mindset right earlier,
then you really could expand
and see where could I
go in my life, you know?
So it isn't just the technical world.
There's a whole other
world out there too,
and it's personally too
in your personal life.
Like that's how marriages can get--
Maybe that's what I'm
trying to describe is--
You need to have that
growth mindset in your marriage,
in your relationship with your children,
like constantly be challenging yourself
and how you think of things
and expanding and expanding.
You're touching on where
I'm probably implying is,
in order to be, have any
contentness or satisfaction,
you have to continue to evolve
and you have to continue
or else you will get stuck
in a rut.
Yes.
So it's not optional.
Isn't it great to have
that wisdom that we have now?
Yes, yeah, because I never had that.
So I think you're both right.
All right, Brian's saying
like survival might depend on it.
In some respects, you're saying that.
Mental, emotional,
financial wellbeing depends on you.
But you know that now.
We knew it, we knew it.
The three of us knew it,
whether we knew it or not.
None of us ever settled.
Not in every aspect of
our lives, I wouldn't say.
And so it's something I
think that needs to be
at front of mind though.
And I'm just saying if Gen
Z can get that in their head
sooner than we did,
they're gonna be way ahead of us.
Not everyone likes learning
because the only
version of learning they know
is traditional learning.
Yeah.
And that didn't work for them.
And so then what happens
is they write off learning
because they only, like,
I don't like zucchini, but
the truth is my wife can bake it
a certain way or fry it.
And I'm like, "Oh, what,
what a good, I could eat that."
But if I've only had
it broiled, you know,
and it was every time, I'm like, I'm not.
So I think that's where we're,
what we are struggling with
a little bit as a culture.
And we went, we're
going with some full circle,
is college important?
Yeah.
Is that we're very standard
in the way we teach still.
My daughter right now is
talking about this program
in Madrid that she signed up for.
And she was choosing which of these MBA
programs she wanted.
And she chose this one.
I pushed her early to
try to adopt some chat GPT
in her life, you know?
And, and she, I'm like, "Look at this.
And what if we did this on a prompt?"
And it really, fortunately
for me, like she bit hard
and she used it in a recruiting world.
And like all her other peers were like,
"How did you get all
that information for it?"
Fastened, she's like, "Don't know."
You know, not like you're
supposed to share sweetheart.
You know, she's like, "Yeah, I know,
but they're not being that nice."
I was like, "Cool."
I was like, "I can handle that."
So anyway, we were joking about it,
but she chose this program that is being,
that was created, this
college, if you will, in Madrid,
that was created by like
the former head of Google
in Latin America and in Spain, excuse me.
And the former head of like Salesforce.
Okay, and they created
this technical digital first
sort of curriculum.
Her roommate is at the
traditional MBA program,
book, lecture, book, lecture, read, test.
This is practice.
Okay, here's the scenario.
Okay, this is the company we're running.
Okay, how are we gonna do this?
And she is just like thriving.
She wasn't great at traditional learning.
Yeah. She just wasn't.
And she's really a bright girl,
but not great at traditional learning.
And my oldest, not great at
traditional learning at all,
but really kind of like
has this natural leadership
Pied Piper thing where she
makes good street decisions
all the time.
She's cool as the
other side of the pillow.
Everyone wants to be around her.
And so I'm like, I'm trying
to, she's my new challenge.
I'm like, let's talk
about how chat GPT works.
Let's talk about how AI in general works
and how it can augment all
this education that you needed,
that you didn't get, that
you're not gonna remember.
Cause like you, traditional learning
didn't work for you,
but it's at your fingertips, right?
And hey, by the way, if
you don't wanna read it all,
it'll talk to you.
It'll feed it to you
however you wanna be fed.
And I'm really trying to get both of them
to have a positive relationship with AI,
because if they don't, I
do believe that someone else
will learn to use it to
accelerate themselves faster.
But you do have to have a want to learn.
And I want to get
better and want to improve.
And that is that growth mindset.
And I don't think we teach it.
We don't. No.
I don't think we teach it.
I don't think we really talk about it
until you're later in
your professional life.
And actually I'm gonna take that away.
Like I'm gonna actually
just start talking about
that phrase with my kids.
Even my 10 year old.
You know, like every
little failure is like,
what did we learn today?
Tell me something that,
like I'm gonna really
change the way I talk to you.
Like what went really bad today?
It was the worst part of your day.
Okay, cool.
What did you learn from that?
Yeah. Because that's what it is, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
The journey.
It's like, what does
the journey teach you?
That's so true.
You know, and now we can
augment that journey so fast.
What's interesting, our
youngest had some kids over
a couple of weeks ago and
I was talking to this kid.
It was just fascinating.
Honestly, he's probably 14, 15 years old.
And we were just
shooting the shit about football
or something and we had a question.
Question came up.
He got on his phone, topped on chat GPT.
I think it was and was like, blah, blah.
And he's like, oh
yeah, that's the answer.
And it happened like four times.
It's like, this kid's
he's kind of dialed in.
They use it though, especially that age.
They use it.
Well, the problem is the formal education
kind of where you're going in some ways,
they're not embracing it.
They're still saying
you need to read the book
and you need to test.
And we did it as a parent
and I'm technically interested and savvy.
Our youngest said to write a paper.
He's like, let me just do it in chat GPT.
And we were like, no, no, you can't.
The teachers don't want you to.
But so he threw out the topic
and he's over there
struggling to write it.
And I'm like, write me, hop on chat GPT,
write me a standard, what is it?
Four paragraph paper
on the following topic
with these two main points.
30 seconds, 10 to five
seconds later, right?
It's done.
He's over there brighten away.
But I do think you're spot on
that they don't need to learn it all
traditionally at all.
Cause it's right there.
It's easily askable.
Yeah.
You don't write it.
It's Google on steroids.
It's like when we were going to school
and they said, you're
not gonna have a calculator
in your pocket and we all
have a calculator in our,
you know what I mean?
Or, you know, telling us that--
There's a balance here.
No, there is a balance.
There's a balance for sure.
But I think that there
has to be an evolution.
It's like, why did we do square dancing?
Why do we play the recorder?
It's like, there's so
many things that we did
that we don't even apply now.
And I think it'd be good
if they could look ahead
and start implementing some of this stuff
instead of wasting time.
Agreed.
Brian said something.
And if you remove one word,
it's a totally different answer.
So you said they don't
need to learn traditionally
or they didn't say they don't need their,
like they're not being taught to learn.
They don't need to learn traditionally.
And I think the problem is,
is that they need to learn.
Yes, absolutely.
And so the problem with chat GPT is it
gives you an answer.
Right. Yeah.
You didn't do any thinking.
Yes.
Yeah. Right?
Yeah. You prompt it.
You maybe, that's some of it,
but you're gonna believe what it says.
Yes.
Because you haven't
been taught how to learn.
We did the recorder a little bit to learn
how music works.
Yes. Right?
I don't need it, but
I learned how to learn
in that process.
So I'm in this art. It's the learning.
It's the learning.
Oh, I think that's the
scariest part of chat GPT
in education.
For me, it is that it's
too easy for the student
to get the answer.
They don't have to think.
And if critical thinking goes away,
Yeah.
That's scary.
Because we, like the amount of,
even if hallucinations get better
and the answers get
closer and blah, blah, blah,
you still have to think critically
about what you're solving for,
or you'll be misled.
And I would-- Because the answer,
like it's gonna give you the answer
it's being told to give you.
Yeah. Right?
And I do think that like,
whether it's learning
what prompt engineering is,
but I think the brain
does need to develop
a skill for learning.
Learning, the learning
to exercise the learning.
The learning how to learn.
Yeah, there has to be a
way to develop these too.
Since we're dissecting it.
I would amend it too,
you do have to learn
and you do have to have
critical thinking skills.
Highly, highly important.
What I mean by not having to learn,
I don't know if you
have to learn everything,
little nook and
cranny about world history.
No, that's a bad example
because I think history is critical.
But there are certain things
you just don't need to know.
And because it's easy to just get it
and it's easy to have
it at your fingertips,
but you do have to be
able to connect dots.
And you have to have
that critical thinking.
You have to be able to learn how to take
this bit of information
and match it up with this
and then make decisions.
But I don't know if you have
to learn every little thing
that you're taught in school
just because that's how it's always been.
You could argue school's too long.
Yeah. Right?
They squeeze a lot in.
They do, yeah.
They could replace a lot of traditional,
to your point, it's a really tough time.
Maybe the curriculum changes.
Maybe that's where you're going.
That's where I'm going.
Like, hey, could you
imagine if an eight hour day
is replaced with four hours of,
we've figured out what we
think we want you to learn
and four hours of
practical critical thinking.
Yeah. Yeah.
Lab. Yeah.
I mean, let's put it this way.
You never learned science
just by reading science.
Right. Yeah.
At least for me. Yeah.
My greatest growth always
came in practicing science.
In the physics lab. Yeah.
It's like one of my favorite classes
because I get blushed and shit up.
A microscope, looking at shit in water.
Yeah. Yeah.
Totally. Connects the dots.
The best, right?
And so what a wonderful
opportunity to spend less time
with eyes on a book and
more time in practice.
I would really hope our education system
gets in front of that a little bit.
Yeah. Right?
Or the curriculum changes a
little bit where you're like,
okay, cool, let's embrace
that we can get this answer
quickly out of AI.
And this is how we would get it.
Yeah. Let's teach you
how to get it. Yeah.
However, now let's go
into a lab and make this,
give you a practical scenario
in which you go ebb and flow
into AI for the
solution, whatever that may be.
Yeah. Right?
Because the problem is is
traditional education is read,
test. Yeah.
Read, test, paper.
Well, test and paper are easy.
Well, read, memorize.
Read, memorize. Not necessarily learn,
but memorize. Right?
Regurgitate. Yeah.
Test. 100%.
Right?
Right on paper.
And so I can regurgitate easier now.
I could do all my homework. Yeah.
So regurgitation, it doesn't
prove that I've learned it.
It doesn't, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's the
interesting thing, right?
Like at the end of the day,
test and the paper are proof.
Proof that you did the
work and by doing the work,
I hoped you learned. Right.
But doing the work has become easy.
Here's an example. So
now what are you actually,
now what are you actually
trying to, how do you judge?
Traditionally, that's how we judge
whether or not someone was learning.
Yeah. Right?
Like we have to rethink
whether or not someone got it.
Yeah. How do you know
someone got it? Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. How many times have you
faced the challenge in your
business and you're over there,
your engineers are doing things
and you just hop on
chat GPT and it's like,
"Hey, chat GPT says do this,
why aren't you doing that?"
You know, and because it's quick, right?
It's quick and it's at your
fingertips, it's dangerous.
They're like, "Oh,
come on, dude, shut up.
Leave us alone."
But that's the reality of
the new dynamic for now.
For sure. For now.
For sure, I'm trying to encourage them.
You know, it's funny,
do you make it a mandate?
Do you encourage it?
Do you give it a reward?
I try to lead by
example, like I'm using it like,
"Hey, let me tell you what it taught me.
Let me tell you how I applied it."
You know, it's funny, right?
You just never have enough time
for all the good ideas you have,
I think is a very real thing. Yeah.
But I try to encourage like,
"Hey, is it like, hey, what
if we tried to use chat GPT
to get us 80% of the way there?"
Like, "Hey, there's not
enough time in a day."
Got it.
I'm really asking a lot of you,
but if we could save you 30% of your day,
how much of a reward is that?
And so someone posed this to me,
CIO I was meeting with and he goes,
"You know, we figured
out already theoretically
how to use chat, use AI
to save 30% of your day,
40% of your day,
because you put all these
processes in your head."
The question is, what
do you do with the 40%?
Because what we don't know is,
does my employee play
video games with the 40%?
Or do they use the
40% to do other things?
That's a challenge for you
as a business owner to say,
I just freed up, you
now have 60% of your time,
or 40% of your time
back, what are you gonna do?
What are you gonna do?
And you've got to figure-
I can't track it per
se, I could, but I'm not,
like, isn't that crazy?
Like what are you gonna
do with your other 40%?
So have you gotten
into agentic AI at all?
We don't have any
agentic AI running internally
to solve problems.
It's really funny because
it's one of those pet projects
where I'm like, I need to
go find a guy like Brian
who could go execute it for me.
Like I don't have those guys, right?
So I don't have a big IT department.
Have you looked into like,
have you seen Microsoft's whole concept
of the frontier organization?
No, no, I have not as a whole, really.
Oh my God, it's not, it's
talking about using agentic AI.
So today, the most common thing is,
I'm gonna go to chat,
GBT, I'm gonna write a prompt
and I'm gonna get an answer.
Correct.
The next version, which
they're kind of pushing
and it's really fascinating,
is to now start to
embed agents into your team.
Oh, so-
And then now make
most of your team agents.
Now it's, and you
know, that scares people.
It's right, you know,
it's like, well, shit,
I'm gonna be out of a job.
And the whole selling point is no,
you're gonna get time
back to do other things.
Now we go back two minutes.
What do you fill your time with?
So it's really fascinating.
If all your job is to provide information
when people ask it, then
yes, that job is going away.
I can get information without you.
I mean, look, you know, I
think just my fear on that side
is like, there's a lot
of lawyers and accountants
and what have you that are only five
years out of the job
for us with a lot of
debt going, oh, shit.
Okay, that part of the
generation scares me.
Like, those are our kids, right?
Where like they did all this
study and they did all this
and they took jobs that
might be easily replaceable.
I have seen, I haven't
seen it as articulated
as the Microsoft front
end, the way you described it,
but I've seen already in action, like,
hey, I created this,
where I went into Microsoft,
I forgot the studio and
they're like, make me a bot
that does this, this and this.
It's a copilot studio.
Yeah, copilot studio.
Super powerful, yeah.
I've seen that in action,
I think that's powerful.
And then check out this part.
So we live in a zero trust world, right?
Oh yeah, yeah. Brian
and I are geeking it out.
So how do you know who that bot is?
I'll tell you.
And that bot has access to what?
All my HR data?
So could I just ask that bot to give me,
hey, can you give me a
Brian Barker salary, please?
Yeah, you know what's.
You know what I mean?
Like, how do you secure the identity?
How do you identify and
secure this new agentic AI world?
Which is a real heck of a problem
because like it's really easy
now in this zero trust world
to say, I know who Brian
is and I'm an MFAM to death.
And he'll always tell me who he is,
because that's the
only, but if he's a bot,
uh-oh, how do I give
that bot a personality?
It's fascinating.
I work with a guy who's super smart
and he's always been like,
I don't like to use elevated privileges.
I trust myself, but
now I'm developing bots
and I've got God-like
powers across our ecosystem.
I gotta figure this out.
And so it's kind of
touching on what you're saying.
There is that
nefarious part of the agents
because they do learn.
That's the whole frontier concept.
They learn, now they
start making decisions.
Imagine like, hey, I've
learned, I ran into a roadblock.
Could you help me get
around this roadblock?
Sure, I'll help you get
around this roadblock.
But that, that, that, that, you're like.
I'll tell you.
Every now and again, you do have to go,
this terminated your thing.
That's the possibility.
No, that's just about the same.
That's a possibility.
I'll tell you one of
the most powerful things
that I've come across so
far is the whole vibe coding.
Right, so you go into VS Code,
you can choose whether
you wanna use Claude,
chat, GBT, co-pilot, and you say,
write me a script that does this.
Write me a script that does that.
So where I've used this,
I'm not a coder by trade.
I'm a noodler, but you can see my
Raspberry Pi's there.
Now I've got it down.
When we upload a YouTube video,
I can go and press one button.
I used to have to go,
we upload the video.
I create a webpage and
do all this shit, right?
Takes me a half an hour to an hour.
Now I press a button,
it's done in 30 seconds.
I got my webpage updated,
my episode page updated.
It's all pushed out and it's flawless.
And I'm done, I'm literally,
I bet it takes me longer to log in
than it does for it
to run the whole script
and update it all.
It's amazing.
He's very excited when that happened.
Well, that he should be,
but now can you imagine this?
Like we just had this
wonderful conversation.
Yet we could throw a
large, you could write a book.
You could sit there and be like,
I'm gonna write this whole story.
Yeah.
And I'm gonna send
that over to Google's LM
and say, make this a podcast.
It's happening.
And I've watched it, I've literally.
Most content, not
most, but a lot of content.
And you're like, oh my God,
like I've taken a
training thing and I'm like,
you know what, as this example,
I'd like to know more
about what Office Depot's doing
in X, Y, and Z, public documents.
Put it into Google and I'm like,
hey, do this to me for a
podcast and I'll be driving it back.
Hey, did you guys hear
about what Office Depot's doing?
Oh man, yeah, totally.
Well, tell me more about it.
Okay, so it's like, it's
really cool, blah, blah, blah.
And it just sounds so, yeah, authentic.
And you're like, oh, and by the way,
I enjoyed learning it
that way while I was driving
versus having to read
this boring document
about corporate blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, uh-oh.
There's a couple of moments.
You know, the other thing
my older son's looking into
is developing agents to make, say you've
got a thousand bucks,
you wanna just play in the market.
Develop an agent that
you say, hey, go and,
based on this criteria,
whether it's earnings per share,
whatever, right, the
multiple, go and buy these stocks.
I want you to be semi-aggressive.
Here's a thousand bucks, go grow it.
And that's what's
trading is becoming, right?
That's been going on for a while.
500%.
Yeah.
But now anybody cross you with it.
I get gags at my desk that are incredible doing,
wanting that, wanting to do that at,
not wanting, doing that at scale.
Scale, 100%, yeah.
I think with all of this though,
what's also going to happen
is real is going to become
a hot commodity and
real organic experiences
and old school stuff.
I think people are, it's
gonna go so far one way
that people are going
to crave no technology
and crave just face-to-face human contact
because AI is gonna take over everything
that everyone's gonna lose trust.
And what I'm listening to,
is this real or is this AI?
What I'm watching, is
this real or is this AI?
What I'm being told is
that a real person or AI.
And I think that the lack of
trust is gonna leave people
to search out more of
a human interaction.
Agree 100%.
I think ultimately if
you just look at generally,
the generation after the generation
always wants to do different.
Oh, you guys ruined the internet.
And oh, you guys ruined it.
So I think that the
Gen Z, terrible at that.
Gen Z, they're the ones in their 20s.
Okay, so I think that
they're so in social
and all of that, that my 10 year old,
that generation's gonna
fight it in a weird way.
Alpha. Yeah.
Because they're like, "Ah,
the old people do it this way.
So we're gonna do something different."
Yeah. Right?
And that you always sort of have to fight
the generation above you.
You're always gonna
do something different.
You do, yeah.
And I think that's gonna happen.
How it happens, I have no idea.
I don't know because
we've never had technology
like this before to mess around with.
But I think that it'll become something
that humans wanna protect.
I think humans will want to
protect the human experience.
Yeah.
And I think that
technology is going to start
to feel more like a threat
than an aid at some point
in certain situations.
So, and before I ask my last question,
do you have any more questions?
I do.
(laughing)
It's semi-nebulous, but what does
leadership mean to you?
Hmm.
You know, I think,
when I think of leadership, I think of
getting others to achieve more
than they thought they could achieve.
By bringing them
together, by not bringing,
that doesn't necessarily
need to be brought together.
Getting others to achieve more
than what they think their limits are.
That's the way I define it.
You know, and I think that it's important
that empathy and care find their way.
They're gonna have to
have their way into that.
Because I do think leadership does,
the best leadership is
gonna come from a good place.
You know?
That's how I look at it.
Yeah, and admittedly, it's a question
I don't like to answer myself.
Because it could
change data, not day to day.
But you know what I'm saying?
I do.
You wanna choose your words carefully
as a true leader that you are.
So you wanna choose your words carefully
because it's a tough
question, it's a big question.
It is.
It means different
things to different people
and it means different
things at different times
and at different situations.
So I think that's a great answer.
This format helped me
with that a little bit
in that connecting back to coaching,
directing, being in an
organization, whatever it may be.
I think a lot of that
is a willingness to say,
I want something, we all want something,
there's something out there.
We all take the lead
and create safety for others
so they can get there, right?
And push, because occasionally it's push
and occasionally it's
courage to be in front
and occasionally it's the
courage to be in the back.
And so to your point, I
do think it changes daily.
Yeah.
And maybe the best answer
is it's doing what is needed
at the time it is
needed to help others grow.
Maybe that's how I would rewrite it.
That's great, that's a
great way to sum it up.
I think courage is heavily involved.
Yeah.
Courage is heavily
involved to be a leader.
Yeah.
And like you said, obviously to lead
but to have the courage and
self-awareness and humility
to know when not to.
Yeah.
And to let your people go
and let give them their opportunity
and creating that space.
So it's a great answer.
I have one last comment
that you can ask yours.
Just going back to the
whole imposter syndrome concept.
I don't think you need to feel it.
I think you should be proud of what
you've accomplished.
I've known you for, I don't
know how long, 10, 12 years,
something like that.
I'm proud of what you've done.
I'm proud of what
I've seen you accomplish.
And I think you can be and should be.
So I don't think you,
you can probably give
yourself some grace, I guess,
if you will.
Don't take your foot off the pedal
because I think it's
what makes you successful.
But I don't think you need
to feel like an imposter.
I appreciate that.
That makes sense.
It does.
It does.
This has been wildly beneficial to me.
Oh, good.
Yeah, because I don't talk
like, you know, sort of this.
About these topics and subjects
and don't dive into the
past as often as I might.
But sometimes it, you
know, every now and again,
there's just a little
bit of reminder out there.
You're entitled to that.
Yeah, that's-
Cause you give it to everyone else.
You're entitled to that space too,
to honor yourself in your journey
and to take appreciation and stock of it.
You're entitled to it
just as much as everyone else
in your life that you love.
So my last question is,
where do you see yourself in five years?
Five years is tricky because it's blurry.
Cause the, you know, and I think about
this a decent amount.
I don't have a finite
date for the business.
I could still be leading the business.
I could have moved on to something else.
The business could be
part of something bigger
and I have a role within that bigger.
Eventually, I think these,
the reason five years is tough is
because I look at it a
little bit more as like,
as Presley gets closer to graduating.
So as she goes off to
college, theoretically,
I think that there will be
a little bit more freedom.
I mean, they're gonna have
the right people in place
that give me that freedom at the business
or we will have joined someone else.
And, you know, there
will be leaders running it
in some way, shape or form,
whether they're running
it in its current form
or in another form.
I love to work.
I love to think.
I love to give
advice, which is hysterical.
I see myself in
consulting in some respect
or coaching high
school football, you know?
I got a bunch of buddies that are like,
you're an idiot if you don't
do some high school football.
And it's really funny, a
lot of people are like,
you're the boss, you have
any, you can make the time
or you can do this, you can do that.
And I'm like, now I don't
really look at it that way.
Like I feel like I'm the leader
and I'm gonna show
you that I'm gonna work
just as hard as you guys.
And so my life has a frenetic pace today.
But yeah, as Presley gets older,
I'll probably have grandkids in two
different countries.
And I'm gonna need some
flexibility at some point
to make sure I keep this family together.
And that matters to me.
It matters to me a lot.
My wife's grandmother,
Gammer, had a license plate.
It was like 23 and all.
And she was just like, you
talk about the matriarch, okay?
She's the wife of a four star general.
Wow.
And she just has a matriarch vibe.
And I tell Jodi all the time, I'm like,
I gotta make you Gammer.
Because then you think like
the legacy of the unit stays.
Yes.
And she really, like,
that's a big thing for her.
You know, she wants that.
She wants to be Gammer.
And I'm like, we can make that happen.
Because then I can sleep well at night
knowing generations of our
family will stay together.
Like that's the desire.
You're passing that on.
I'm trying to.
Yeah, you're passing that on.
I think that's the third or fourth time
that you've talked about
coaching high school football.
Yeah, I know, it's kind of funny, right?
I think that's something that you're--
I gotta be near it.
I gotta do something.
You're manifesting it.
Yeah, and I think I gotta be,
young people need as
much help as they can get.
Yeah, for sure.
And coaching high school football
is not about coaching
high school football.
Right, right.
It's about sitting on the side.
It's about developing a young man.
And you know that because
you had that experience.
It's made me who I am.
So I need to make it full circle.
You should start with
a flag football team.
Young little kids.
I've already coached, actually.
I coached my niece's
soccer team here in Boca.
It was one of the most
wonderful experiences
just watching those girls.
We won a championship.
Was it Team Boca?
Travel?
It wasn't the travel.
It was the Optimus one.
Saber, yeah.
I won the McCormick
Cup or whatever that was.
Nice.
Whatever that was.
Our daughter played that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't
remember the exact name,
but her team won it once and
she had a shirt or something.
My cousin's husband got me involved.
He's like, "I need help."
And then he ended up
like, "You just coach."
And Nina and I was so wonderful.
That's awesome.
I've coached forever
with my oldest, Nathan.
And I'm like, "I gotta stop."
So him and Dylan and Nathan both coach.
They coach a basketball team.
We're always been doing that.
Well, I think that's a great vision.
And I can't wait to hear
from Brian as the years go on
and see where you are
and what you're doing.
And when you become a grandpa,
are you gonna be called grandpa?
Have you decided?
I have not.
I choose not to have that conversation
in any way, shape or form.
I turn 50 next year.
Oh, that's a big one.
That's a big one.
I still think I'm 35.
So we all.
It's all downhill.
So we all.
We won't use that word grandpa at all.
I am cool, dad.
Well, yeah.
I mean, I don't think Jen,
I think Gen X has
made being a grandparent
the coolest ever.
So, cause we all are
just living our lives
in the coolest schools we are,
but we just happen to be grandparents.
So that's how it goes.
But Greg, thank you so
much for sharing your story
and your wisdom and your advice.
I know there's so many listeners
that this is gonna resonate with
and they've learned things from you.
I mean, some of the
knowledge you've imparted
is just invaluable.
So thank you for all of that.
And again, for being
so open and trusting us
with your story.
We've really enjoyed it.
You're welcome, but thank you guys.
This has been absolutely fantastic.
I'm so glad Brian asked me to do it.
Yeah.
Yeah, very cool.
It's been great.
I'm glad you said yes.
Hell yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And again, I'm just watching your journey
and how it all has tied together
and led you to where you are.
It's a puzzle that
just makes perfect sense.
And I know the next five, 10 years
are gonna go that way for you.
Even if there's ups and
downs, it's all gonna fit.
So I'm excited.
I'm excited to,
and I know you two
are gonna stay in touch.
Yes, sure.
Relationship building here.
Totally.
This relationship is solid.
Well, we've had, yeah.
Like I said, 75% BS about
random things, 25% work.
Yeah.
Like I said, when you come to town
and I hear he's going to lunch,
I'm like, good, I get
like three or four hours.
So myself.
Well, I will say this,
like he doesn't go to lunch.
So the fact that he goes to lunch with me
makes me feel pretty good.
Yeah, let me tell you something.
He doesn't go to lunch.
He's not a meeting guy.
So yeah.
I don't like people.
I have a very, very short list.
Yes, and you're on it.
You and JD are on it.
Absolutely.
He says no to everything.
So, but again, thank you so much.
And for our listeners, we welcome any
comments or questions.
And I do want to just say
your company one more time.
Sure, it's Grayson Technologies.
Grayson Technologies.
In Fort Lauderdale, Florida,
offices all throughout the state.
So anyone's interested
in Grayson Technologies.
I can vouch as well.
Yes, yes.
That's how we've known
each other for so long.
Very satisfied, I guess customer,
evolved into friendship and they kill it.
I hate to put you out there too much
because I don't want it to, you know.
By the way, he's not
alone in that statement.
They're like, I don't really
want to give you a referral
because I don't want to
not have you when I need you.
And I'm like, that's not how it works.
Trust me, you gotta just trust that we
know we're doing it.
And it isn't how it works
I've seen you guys grow,
I've seen you guys scale,
I've seen you guys just kill it, so.
Everyone needs, you
know, it's ebbs and flows.
There are times of the
year or of multi years
where you're like, I
just kind of don't need
what you have right now
because your journey
doesn't need it at that time.
Your technical, your
company's technical journey.
And so that's what's cool.
Someone joked like, if we do our jobs
really, really well,
you don't need us that much.
That's the reality.
If we're really good and we
do what we're supposed to do,
you'll keep us around, but
you don't always need us.
And that's our kind of--
I do think when you were
talking about the courage
to go out and sell,
the courage to deliver,
I would, you know, I mean,
you guys are a trusted advisor
to myself and my
teams and it's just huge.
And I think it's a huge
thing in the marketplace.
So you're not just bullshitting here.
You're walking the walk, I guess, right?
And it's a great thing you've built.
It's cool.
It's authentic.
It's authentic.
It is.
It is.
So again, Grayson Technologies,
I'll say it one more time, but that's it.
And as always listeners,
if you have any comments
or questions for Brian and I,
please feel free to leave them
and we will see you next time.
Bye.
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