# Episode 8 - Marriage

- Podcast: GenX Adulting Podcast
- Published: 2024-09-23T01:00:00.000Z
- Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/15797446-episode-8-marriage.mp3
- Page: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/transcripts/podcasts/genx-adulting-podcast/episodes/episode-8
- Source: https://genxadultingpodcast.com/episodes/genxadultingpodcastepisode8.html
- People: Brian Barker (host), Nicole Barker (host)

## Summary

In this episode, the hosts reflect on their 30 years of marriage, discussing the challenges and rewards of getting married young. They share insights on growing together, navigating life's ups and downs, and the importance of friendship and respect in a long-lasting relationship.

## Key takeaways

- Getting married young can lead to growing up together and creating a strong bond.
- Friendship and respect are crucial for a successful marriage.
- Navigating challenges together strengthens the relationship.
- It's important to communicate roles and responsibilities in a partnership.
- Building a life together, even from humble beginnings, is rewarding.
- Gratitude for shared experiences enhances marital satisfaction.
- Don't let societal pressures dictate your timeline for marriage and family.

## FAQ

### What are the benefits of getting married young?

Getting married young allows couples to grow up together, fostering a deep bond and shared experiences over time.

### How can couples navigate tough times in marriage?

Couples can navigate tough times by maintaining open communication, showing respect, and working together through challenges.

### What is the key to a successful long-term marriage?

The key to a successful long-term marriage is friendship and respect, which help couples weather life's ups and downs together.


## Referenced links

- [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGWvhBaJsjQ)
- [Listen on Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-8-marriage/id1764838823?i=1000670343281)
- [Listen on Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/6ZnNVaUqflUowa3IHAfC5A)
- [Listen on Buzzsprout](https://www.buzzsprout.com/2398379/episodes/15797446-episode-8-marriage)

## Transcript

[Music]
Welcome to Gen X Adulting.
Today is the marriage episode.
We just celebrated our
30th wedding anniversary.
And so we are going to share our
thoughts, opinions and experiences from
being married for 30 years.
It's quite an accomplishment. I feel
accomplished in that because I mean, I'm
assuming you do as well.
Yeah, it's amazing to think we've been
together 30 years and
where did the time go?
It goes very quickly.
Yeah, it goes really fast.
I mean, officially we've been together 32
years, so but married 30.
So we got married young pretty much. I
mean, 23. I know some people get married
in their late teens, maybe 2021.
But for our world, 23, right out of
college, a year out of college, it was,
we were the first out
of all of our friends.
Yep. We, after we graduated college, we
drove around the country for two and a
half months and then we lived together.
We moved in together and sinners.
Yeah. In the scheme of things, we were
definitely still kids. Right. Yes.
Very young kids in many ways. Yes. Yeah.
So and then we got
married a year later at 23.
And I think there's pros and cons to
getting married young.
I think the pros, in my opinion, is you
get more time together. Like you just
said, it goes by so fast.
So I'm happy we were able to start so
early because it did go by so quickly.
And you kind of grow up together. Yeah,
definitely. And there
can be cons to that.
Yeah. Because there's growing pains. You
know, I don't think the frontal lobe is
closed until age 26.
So we got married even before. That's
like a scientific fact too,
right? I think it is. Yeah.
So, you know, we, you know what, I think
the pro of that in some ways is I think
if you wait too long,
then it gives you too much time to
analyze and create more
apprehension and fear of what ifs.
Where if you're kind of ignorant to the
risks and to the turmoil
that might be ahead of you,
you just go into it blindly. And with all
this optimism and hope,
there is some benefit to that.
Because I think if you know too much, it
can kind of slow, not slow you down,
but make you hesitate more because you're
more nervous because you're more aware.
It's kind of like when you become a
parent. Well, it's an
interesting concept.
So you're saying the hindsight is 20, 20
might talk you out of doing it.
I think it would slow you down. I think
you would be more nervous or more scared
to do it because of the what ifs.
Like how do I know that I'm going to want
to be with this person in
10 years, 20 years, 30 years?
And how do I know that we're going to be
able to work everything out?
And how do I know that we're going to be
good parents together?
We're going to be able to
do this whole life together.
And the world is, you know, everyone
thinks the world is so
crazy when you're young.
The world was crazy for us in the 80s and
in the 90s. The world is crazy now.
But so the one piece of advice I would
say, do not let what's going on in the
world stop you from having the hope and
optimism of getting
married and having children.
Do not let what's going on in the world
stop you from that because there's always
going to be chaos going on.
And you really have to insulate and look
at your small world and what you want and
address that and just go for it.
I think the thing you just mentioned
about getting married so young and just
jumping in and not having all the fears
that in is you don't realize the
commitment it takes to be with someone
for as long as we've been together.
Yeah, right. So if as you get older, you
start to realize that I think you're like
you've had some relationships, maybe some
couple of years, three
years, four years, whatever.
And you realize that commitment level and
then with that might come some baggage.
Yeah, by getting married younger. It's
you don't have to say that
that baggage that makes sense.
Yeah, well, exactly. You bring the bag.
If you wait too long, you bring the
baggage of your fear of
it not working out. Right.
So when so we got married young, I was
never worried. I don't know about you. I
don't think we've ever
had this conversation.
I was never worried about getting married
young or if it was going to work out or
not. I mean, I do. OK.
So I do believe you know
when you've met your person.
If you know, you know. And I believe 100
percent, you know, if you've met your
person and there's just
there's no hesitation.
It's like two puzzle pieces fitting
together and you go for it. And I don't
know if that openness to meeting that
person starts to close the older you get
because all of these other variables are
existing in the world.
To influence your open mindedness about
finding your person. Does that make
sense? Yeah. Yeah, it does.
It's almost like as you're a kid, you
enter the world just ready to explore.
Right. And it's all new and you're pure
and you're innocent.
The older you get, the more or less
innocent you are. Right. Yeah. You're
jaded by the things
going on around you. Yeah.
I don't know if that's kind of where
you're going. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I
think that the the yes, the the older you
get, the more jaded you get
that that you just sum that up.
Yeah. So the more jaded you are, the
harder it can be to be willing to be
vulnerable and to open yourself up to
others. You're more on guard.
The more exposed you are to the world,
the more guarded you are to people in
general. Yeah. So I think it becomes more
challenging to meet your person. Yeah.
Where when you're younger, you're kind of
ignorant. Yeah. And you have that that
stupid love ability about you. Yeah. And
so you're just more open to it. And for
us, thankfully, it worked out.
Yeah. Because I'm sure our parents and
our family and even our friends thought
we were crazy. We got married in Vegas.
It was a very nice wedding. It wasn't
even though I think those chapel weddings
are adorable, but it was a traditional
wedding in Vegas. It was a blast.
I went and we ever we talked to friends,
they still say it was the best party of
any wedding they've been to. Yeah. So it
was a wonderful wedding. But I'm sure
everyone thought these two kids are nuts.
Yeah. And I mean, I think now as a
parent, if one of our kids had graduated
from college and a year later was getting
married and married in Vegas, I would be
very apprehensive because
I know too much now. Yeah.
And that's where you have to trust the
thing too. There's we got married in
Vegas to keep to contain the wedding.
Right? Yes. Big families. Yes. And we
didn't want this huge wedding. Right.
Plus we have families on the East Coast,
the Midwest and on the West Coast. Yes.
So Vegas is sort of that destination
wedding. It was at the time we did a
destination wedding before destination
weddings were a thing. Yeah, probably.
Well, it was a destination. I didn't know
it was. That's what we were doing. Yeah.
No idea. To your point, we picked it
because it would change. Yes. Yes. You
and I both did not want to spend the
whole night greeting people. That's just
how we were at the time. We wanted to
just have as intimate wedding as
possible. Have as much fun as possible.
But I didn't want to be walking table to
table all night. That's that's where we
were at. Yeah. So that's why we chose
that. So instead of 250 people at our
wedding, we had 65 people at our wedding
and it was lovely. Now. Now I would love
to have a big party of 200 people.
But at the time, that's not where we were
mentally. And so it worked out great. But
yeah, it was a destination wedding before
it was actually funny. You say that
because for us we wanted a small wedding.
I think our parents and family were more
in line with the big wedding. Fast
forward 30 years. If our kids got
married, we'd probably want more of the
big wedding. Yes. For them and not so
much the small. Yes. No. Yes. I yeah. And
I think although I don't know what our
parents were thinking, I think it was
such a world where we were.
I don't know what they were thinking. I
don't remember my parents ever saying
they wanted a big wedding. I don't know
if yours did. I think everyone was just
kind of like what's happening. What what
is going on? Well, did you go to many
weddings when you were younger? Yeah, I
mean, my family had my Armenian family
had a decent amount of weddings that I
went to. And then but before we got
married. No, I think that was it. I think
it was just on my Armenian side. I think that's something that's something that's really interesting.
But before we got married, no, I think that was it. I think it was just on my Armenian side. I don't think on my mom's
side, I had been to any. Yeah, I'd been
to my mom's weddings. That's another
story. The Ring girl 20 times. No, no,
no. Just two times besides my obviously
wasn't at my parents wedding. I mean, for
us when I was a kid, when people would
get married, you know, I have cousins and
relatives getting married.
That was a party. Yes. Yes.
And it could range from trying to think
if any of them were small, they were
probably smaller when I was really young.
They got progressively just bigger. Well,
yeah. So I think you're Irish Catholic. I
think that's similar to Armenian as far
as partying. So the Armenian weddings are
very big. And it is a party. And it goes
all night. And it's dancing. And it's
lovely the food. You can't top it. And
it's wonderful wedding or something. It's
similar to Greek wedding. It's absolutely
wonderful. It's the best time. But I
think to your point, Irish Catholic,
big family, everyone's partying. Yeah.
And on the east, northeast food is great.
So I think we both had those experiences.
But again, at that time at 23, we were
not down to having that. Again, I would
do it now. But even my wedding dress was
so simple. But um, so anyways, we went we
just, we drove around the country for two
and a half months moved in together in
October of 93. And then in May of 94, you
asked me to marry you. This is a funny
story. Maybe I won't share it. Okay,
well, it was a camping weekend. It was a
camping weekend. Yeah. But we were
chilling on the side of a river and you
asked me to marry you. So and that was
cool. So you asked me in May of 90. I
think we were skinny dipping is the
salacious part you were going to, right?
Yes, we were skinny dipping. So in
Oregon, Oregon's a very, you can still be
natural in Oregon. Yes, we were skinny.
Okay. So we were skinny dipping.
In a river near silver, silver falls in
Oregon. And I can have it on like
McCormick or something like that.
Anyways, um, and then you asked me to
marry you May of 94. And then we got
married September of 94. It was just even
a few months later, most people plan a
wedding for a year. We're like, No, we
just want to get married. Don't care. And
it was wonderful. It was the best time
again, though we were young, we were just
going for it. We didn't
really think about anything.
Except getting married. And well, you
know, you saying that makes I've thought
about this, right? We've been talking
about doing this, having this
conversation. Yes. A little while this
topic. And we with our backgrounds being
so different. I've thought of how we
probably approached it very differently
in that I grew up where I grew up in my
family. 30 years.
That's table stakes. Right.
My parents, my dad's passed away. But if
he was still alive, they would be married
close to 50 years, I think. Yeah. My
aunts and uncles that I grew up with,
they would all be married 5060 years.
Yeah. So for me growing up, you got
married. And that's what you did. Right.
And it lasted forever. There was no
element of no concept of say divorce, per
se. Yeah. Whereas you have a very
different background. And it's probably
not a stable, right? We've talked about
that. Right. So the motor is, you know, it's a very different
concept. And so the motivations and the
concept of marriage were probably
different. But maybe opposites do attract
because they aligned. And 30 years later,
we're still married with three kids were
we still like each other. Yeah, you know,
yeah, we were both willing to take a
risk. Yeah. For different reasons. Yeah,
you were willing to risk it all. And you
and your mind assumed this is forever.
Yeah, like you were willing at 23 years
old. I found my person. I'm ready to move
on. And you were
done. Like, let's do it. I
was willing to take the risk of this
could fall apart, because that's all I
know. This could this I you know, this
could be temporary, I could be
devastated, heartbroken, hurt and left.
But I still am going to marry this person
because this is my person. So you took
the risk with security. I took the risk
with complete insecurity. Yeah. And it
worked out. Yeah. Thank God.
Well, I'm laughing because there were
good conversations back then. Yeah,
right. You probably had a little bit of
doubt. I had a lot of doubt. You had a
lot. Not in you. Not in you. But just the
institution. So I think when you are
someone that come as a child of divorce,
when you go to get married, you are you
are truly risking it all. Yeah, because
you so badly want to believe in happily
ever after. And that this is forever. But
you don't have never you've had no
example of that. Yeah.
And so it's hard to even believe in it.
So when you go to get married, you're you
are 100% saying, I'm going for it, even
though I know there's a high probability,
I'm going to be destroyed by this
situation. But I love this person enough.
And I have enough faith to try and to go
for it. And so I think back now, it was
probably kind of courageous of me to do
it. Probably. Because I truly was saying,
I really don't I don't part of me deep
down inside probably thought there's no
way this is going to work out because I
just didn't ever know if it if it would I
had no security in that. So I'm sure
subconsciously not consciously, but
subconsciously, there was always that
fear for a while that okay, when is the
when is the other shoe going to drop?
Yeah, this is wonderful. And I think when
you also grow up with a lot of
instability, when things
are good, you feel okay, this is only
going to last so long, because something
bad is about to happen. So I'm enjoying
this happiness. And this, this is great.
But I know something bad is going to
happen. So you're kind of always on edge.
You're like, you're, you're enjoying your
happiness, only first to a certain level,
because you're, you're kind of looking
over your shoulder, like, okay, when's
the bad thing going to come? So I think
when you grow up with instability and
divorce, and you get
married, it's wonderful. But for
I will say, I'll be honest, for the first
10 years of our marriage, I probably
subconsciously was like, Okay, when is
the other shoe going to drop? What this
this can't be like, really how this is
going to go this this is working out too
well, something bad's going to happen.
And it probably wasn't until the second
decade of our marriage, where I was like,
okay, this might be my reality, I might
be getting the happily ever after. Yeah.
And it was unbelievable to me. You know,
I don't know if that makes sense. Because
it wasn't a conscious
thing. But it definitely, it was there.
It was there. For sure. I do recall.
Yeah. It was something was there. Yeah.
Yeah. Just that, that trust. Yeah. It's
that it wasn't even in you. It could have
been it was just the concept of marriage.
And this is something you do forever.
Yes. Yeah. Well, you know, what, what
changes it, though, honestly, once you
have kids, then it becomes it's
well, let me let me backtrack. I've
always had the concept of you have your
your an individual, I'm an individual.
And then we come together, right? Yeah.
And we have to maintain some
individuality so that we stay centered
and who we are as people, as individuals,
right. And you can only be successful if
you're okay there, and you bring it
together. Right. So that's part one of
marriage. Yes, then you have kids. And
now it's me, you in this
new little thing. You know,
and that just changes. Right changes
things so much, then you have another
kid. And then you've got a house and oh,
yeah, all of it expenses and it's a whole
thing roles. So when you first no matter
how old you are, when you get married,
whether you're 2325 2935 40, how old you
are. It's your roles, right? So it's,
it's you have your individual. We I think
we always said, we live
our our lives. We have our
individual lives, not that we're
separate, but just our own person living
parallel lives together. And so you have
that when you're first married, you have
your things, whether it's your job, your
interest, your hobbies, whatever, and
then you're together, then you have a
child. So your roles change your parents
together. Yeah. And you're separate,
though, mom, dad, that's separate, and
then parenting together. You know, and
then it's building that
life together while maintaining
your own thing. And I think that can be
such a challenge. Because speaking as a
mom, it's I've spoken on this before,
it's incredibly easy to lose yourself in
being a mother, because your children
truly become your entire world, whether
you work outside the home or not, in
general, you're consumed with that
responsibility. Yeah. Women carry the
emotional baggage of the entire family.
A mother is only as happy as her most
unhappy child. So every day, 24 seven,
that's what's going on in a woman's mind,
her mother's mind, heart, you know, her
whole existence, right? So whether she's
stayed home, mom works outside the home,
she's consumed with that responsibility
of the family. And so I don't know.
Do you disagree? I sort of do. I mean, I
hear you. I do. Definitely. Or a woman
will definitely handle most of the
emotional load. But men do too. Dads do
too, right? Yes. There's a lot of
involved dads. Oh, yeah, maybe that's
involved. So the difference is a shared
responsibility for sure. With us. Yes,
it's been a you've been very involved
with the kids. And you are always have
been there to when
they need to talk to you.
One thing I will say is I've gotten more
involved over time, as I've matured and
grown into this role. Right. So I do
think in the instinctually, you've had
that more at an earlier age, right? You
definitely handled that over time, as
I've kind of grown up, matured a little
bit into this stuff. I can definitely
take on or have taken on more of that.
And I think it's probably more as the
kids get have gotten older. And the
problem with that is,
those folks have a
zinc Conference. That Cosco is a pilot, an actual Mountains. And he has bugs looking to test patients with it to get inspired, to test them,
and not get guy Kelvin, b
r,
y,
e. In general, this is in general, I know there's situations, this is not accurate, but in general,
a woman's instinct as a
mother is to just be all in
right from the start.
I know there's situations
with postpartum depression
and all that, so I'm
not talking about that,
but I'm talking about in general,
when things are all
going okay, a woman is,
it's like a light switch.
Will you guys carry the
child for 10 months basically?
Right, right, so it's
just where, like you said,
I think for men, they grow into it,
a lot of them grow into it,
and this goes back to
getting married young
and growing up together.
So some things that were
instinctual for me as a woman
and as a mother, maybe it
took you a little bit longer
to get there as a father.
No doubt.
You grew up alongside
your kids in some ways,
if that makes sense.
Whereas for me as a woman and as somebody
who wanted to be a mother,
like I really, really
wanted to be a mother,
so when I became one, I was all in,
and it was the best thing ever.
It is the best thing ever
I've ever done in my entire life
to this day.
So for me, there was no hesitation,
but for you, and maybe
this is true for a lot of men,
is it isn't just like light switch,
and I think for some men it is,
but it's you kind of
grow up with the children
and mature with the children.
I wonder if that's true,
I kind of flipped that to make that more
about my own personal experience,
but I am curious, I'm thinking about it
now that I've said it,
I know other people who
I think are like that.
Their wives are the primary caretaker,
and as dads, they've grown up over time
and learned how to do it.
For me, us having a boy as our first,
it's like, all right,
cool, let's go get a ball,
and we'll play catch,
and we'll teach them
how to hit a baseball
throw a football or kick
a sock, whatever, right?
Go fishing, those type of things.
That's how we grow into it.
As crazy as that is.
Yeah, no, I think that's how you bond.
So, but then again, if you
had waited to get married
and become a father,
do you think you would
have been any more in tune
to being a parent, or at 35,
would you still had to figure it all out
and grow up with your
children as you did at 25?
I think yes, but it
would have been different.
I probably would have been more jaded,
kind of like we were
talking about, right?
By being pretty
innocent and like, oh my gosh,
look at this little creature.
It's the best thing.
It's funny, in my adult life,
I've not cried a whole lot of times,
but I've cried each time
one of our kids was born,
because it's just magical.
It is.
It's like, wow, this is amazing.
It's an emotion that you do not have
until you become a parent.
There is an emotion that exists
that a person does not have experience.
Maybe they have it inside of them,
but it doesn't become
alive to the surface
until you become a parent.
And that's why people who
haven't had children yet
or don't have children,
maybe don't understand the
craziness that parents portray
and how we are, it's
just without thinking
that we will do
anything for these children,
because it's an emotion that came
as soon as you became a parent.
I can't even find words for it,
because it's beyond love.
It's crazy.
But as far as being more
jaded when you're older,
I could see that, and
probably more fearful.
Yeah.
More fearful.
I don't know.
Listen, I tell
people, they're in marriage.
Marriage is hard.
And there's bad days, there's bad weeks,
there's bad months, there's bad years.
And whenever I say there's bad years,
some people are like, "What?"
And I'm not talking about
people in abusive situations.
That's totally different.
But yeah, this is marriage,
and some years are gonna kinda suck.
You may have a year that sucks.
And sure, it doesn't
mean every day sucks,
but in general, that was a bad year.
Does not mean you get divorced.
Like, it means this is the
dark time to ride through.
This is when the
roller coaster is crashing
and you have to hold on,
because it's gonna get back on track.
You have to trust in that, and it will.
And the ride will continue,
and it will get glorious again.
It's almost a call out
to middle school parents.
Because middle school
probably is the hardest part
if you have kids, really.
Navigating through
middle school, it's funny.
Everyone talks about
middle school is terrible.
Yeah, for everybody.
It really is.
For everybody.
The homework load, the other kids,
not necessarily being nice to your kids,
whatever it might be,
it's not a fun time.
No, I think that when
you're raising kids,
once their kids get to middle school
and high school to
some degree, it's such a,
it's draining, right?
It is.
But it isn't to say that
what makes a marriage difficult
are the kids or what
they're going through.
But we're all going, it's
hard for kids to realize,
but your parents are living
life for the first time too.
I've never been 53 before.
This is my first time being 53.
So every day and
every year is new for us.
And we're learning every day as well.
Also, when you're a parent,
every day you're growing as a person,
there is no stagnation.
Because you have to grow and adjust
as your children grow and
adjust, as your children grow.
So you're learning how
to parent these children,
which forces you to
grow every day almost.
There's really no point
where you don't feel challenged.
There may be days off
where everything's perfect,
but invariably something comes up
and you have to rise to the occasion.
And this is our first
time doing this too.
Even if you have multiple
kids, we have three kids,
but all three of them are different.
So sure, we may be figured out how to
raise our older son,
but then by the time we
got to our younger son,
it's first of all, he's living in a
totally different world
than media and
technology than our older son was.
It's like being a different parent.
And then we have a daughter,
that's completely different parenting.
So you're always growing and changing.
And then, so then put that
on top of doing it young,
when you're also still
growing up as a person,
it can cause some strain,
it can cause some challenges,
but then through
growth, I always feel comes,
just the best things in life.
And I think through the
dark times and the hard times,
your marriage only gets stronger.
When you get through the dark times
and the hard times in your
marriage and you come out of it,
you almost feel unstoppable as a couple.
Like you're so close after going through
those hard times together.
So what do you think keeps
that going in the sense of?
So, okay, so my number one thing,
if somebody asked me what is the success
to a 30 year marriage?
And I can speak to that right now.
Friendship, friendship and respect.
We were friends first.
I think it's so important to
be friends first, if you can,
or at least to create
that friendship first,
because from that
friendship becomes respect.
And it's a different respect
than respecting the person you love.
You're respecting this
person as a good friend.
That's a totally different respect.
So in all of our
times, like ups and downs,
when we're on downs,
there was just certain things
we would never do to each other.
We never cheated.
We never cheated physically.
We never cheated emotionally.
I mean, we never even
came close to any of that.
That's just not even in the
landscape of the marriage,
because it's such a respect thing.
I don't think either one of
us could have looked the other
in the eye for even a
second if we had cheated
because of that
friendship and that respect.
There are certain things we
wouldn't say to each other.
Now we have got, our kids can tell you,
we've gotten in spats, we've gotten in
full blown arguments.
We've sworn in each other.
I know there's people
are like, I never swear.
And my husband, we don't swear.
And I'm like, oh God.
Multiple, that's all. Multiple, yeah.
But there still is a
certain level in our arguing
we won't go to.
Yeah, I can't explain it,
but because that respect
and friendship is there.
And it's what's gotten us through.
There's times when things
have felt like they are gonna,
like we're just
falling apart, it's chaos,
but that friendship and respect has kept
us getting through it.
And I'm just talking
about normal life stuff.
Obviously there's no abuse going on here.
So I'm not talking about that next level.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, no, I was just
trying to think of examples
of say those dark times and it's,
I don't think we've ever
had dark, dark, dark times.
We've had probably just patches like
you're talking about
where it's just,
life's just crazy, right?
Whatever it might be.
It's like sleep deprivation,
dealing with stuff with the kids,
whatever it might be.
Yeah, and even like with the economy,
like throughout the last 30 years,
money can put a big stress too.
There's so many different things
that cause stresses in a
marriage and we've moved.
Like that's caused stress.
Yeah, when I'm talking
dark, I'm not talking,
I mean, there's people
that have gone through
some really horrible things
and had to get through
those things together.
Very fortunate.
We've been very fortunate, very blessed.
So I'm definitely not trying
to belittle some situations
that other families have been in.
But for us, what has
gotten us through was that,
in my opinion, we
obviously love each other,
but that friendship and that respect is
so key to a marriage.
I think it's the glue
that holds it together.
Yeah, probably.
And I think, I don't
know, you could speak to this,
but you've been,
you're really a family man.
On Fridays, would come
home, you didn't stop at a bar.
You didn't golf all day
every Saturday and not spend,
your priority when you weren't working
was spending as much time with the kids
and with me as possible.
And I think that has a lot to do with it.
I think the involvement of
a father is key in that way.
I do believe that.
I think, I don't,
wouldn't say I've sat back
and contemplated I need
to take this seriously
or anything like that.
But I do think a dad's
role in a family with kids
is equally as important
as a mom's role in 100%.
100%, yeah.
I think the, I'm probably
more of a social introvert
as opposed to someone who
goes out and wants to be out.
I like being home.
I'm a homebody, as you know, right?
That's caused problems
because I wanted to go out.
There's a dark time.
There's one of our challenges.
I would prefer to stay home.
Yep, always.
Okay, so as a side note,
because I'm sure there's women out there
that can relate to this,
but even to go out to dinner,
Brian needs a two week
notice and then reminders.
Kind of like when you
need to tell the young child
to play ground, you're
like 15 more minutes,
10 more minutes.
That's not fair.
It's true.
So, and a lot, and what's
funny is in our younger years,
okay, so this is, I'm so
glad you brought this up.
This is part of growing up together.
In the first 10 years of our marriage,
because I crack up that I
can speak in decades now,
I didn't know this about
you because we met in college
and college is so social.
And we were always at parties,
always doing social things as friends,
going to Grateful Dead concerts,
everything was social.
I had no concept that
you were antisocial.
And it's, and I-
That's a strong word.
But essentially you're an introvert
and you don't wanna go out.
So that's kind of antisocial.
But there's a lot of
people like that actually.
There's a ton of people like
that, but I'm social, right?
And so when you're young
and you're having children
and there's other
couples with young children
and you're all hanging out,
it's the natural thing to get together.
When we lived in New Jersey,
we would get together
with couples once a month
for game night or go to dinner.
But it was always a
struggle to get you to come
to get you to wanna go to the events.
And we battled over that.
We had numerous fights over that.
Not, it would never clicked with me
that I'm married to an introvert.
I wasn't old enough.
So you grew up in
maturity, recognized that.
I wasn't, yeah, I wasn't old enough
and mature enough to
see, to realize this.
I also didn't know what
introvert and extrovert were
in my 20s, I had no idea.
And then, and even your
mom would tell stories
about how when you were little, young
and they would all go out to dinner
and you wouldn't wanna go
and you and your mom
would battle over that.
But then this is the thing.
As soon as you get to where you're going,
you're having the best time
and everyone would think it's your idea
in the first place.
So that was that full growing up together
and realizing, oh, okay, so
there's this characteristic
about this person.
If I would have known that earlier,
I would have handled things better.
I personally would have
handled things better.
And I would have figured out
a better way to communicate.
But because I didn't
understand, it always was a fight.
Does that make sense?
100%.
And if you knew this about yourself,
you could have communicated it to me.
I could have articulated
it so much better to say,
hey, I really don't like to do this
because this, that, the other thing.
Instead, it was like,
no, I don't wanna go.
And then I--
No, I don't like
Italian food on Thursdays.
No, I don't like
playing games with people,
whatever it is, right?
It's so true.
So maybe that goes to
getting married later in life.
You probably are more self-aware.
So then maybe you can
communicate to someone better,
hey, I've learned a lot about myself.
Let me let you in on who I am.
And it's straight on,
the cards are on the table,
where for us, we just jumped in
and now we're gonna figure it all out
as we're trying to tread water.
That can be challenging.
That can be really challenging.
I would say that's a
challenge of getting married.
Young, you haven't
figured yourself out yet.
Exactly.
So now you're figuring yourself out.
You've got this other
person who's figuring
their themselves out.
And now you're trying to do it together.
There's a little friction there for sure.
For sure, yeah, for sure.
But then once you get through it,
you're stronger.
So I don't know if I'm
accurate in this thinking,
but it seems that the generations now,
like Gen Z, and I don't
know if the millennials
were like this, but it
seems like the older Gen Zs
that are starting to get married
or thinking about getting married,
a lot of them seem to
think you need to have
everything before you get married.
Or as soon as you get married,
you should have the nice house,
the two nice cars, the dog,
this wonderful, perfect, beautiful life.
Now, I would say in general for Gen X,
we kind of knew you're
gonna build a life together.
You're gonna start with nothing.
You're gonna start in an apartment.
And then you're gonna live in the
apartment for a while.
And then eventually
you'll buy your first house,
but it's gonna be small, run down,
probably have to work on it,
live in that for a while.
And then maybe you
sell that and get a nicer,
like you create your
life together, right?
And I think social media in some ways
has made the Gen Z generation think
that they need to have
everything right away.
But I'm here to say part of marriage,
a huge part of marriage is
building that life together,
is starting with just a small amount,
an apartment and very little money
and building to the next step,
to the next step, to the next step
so that when you get to
where you finally wanna be,
you build that together
and that's part of marriage.
So you're almost going the route of,
it's more about the
journey than the end result.
100%.
And I think that the journey of building
that life together,
starting in the apartment,
buying your first house that's run down,
eventually getting a nicer house,
starting with a junky car,
getting a little bit nicer car,
then getting nicer.
I think that journey,
and I'm talking about material things,
I'm aware of that.
But that journey is what
strengthens a marriage,
it's what creates a marriage.
In addition to having
children, raising those children,
but creating that life together
is what creates the marriage.
And so if you start
out at the destination,
then what are you creating together?
What is your thing that you did together?
Yeah, so I mean, I think, hey,
if these kids can start out at 25, 26, 27
with everything, God bless them.
But I just, and I have nothing against
those young couples.
Honestly, that's wonderful for them.
But I just don't want younger people
that don't have that to
feel that they're failing.
Do you think what you're describing
is more of a divorce generation,
say like an advanced divorce generation,
or, right, because we talked about this,
where when we were growing up,
divorce has been around forever,
but it really hit us at our age.
Oh, there's no question,
Gen X are the children of where divorce
became part of society.
Now that there's this maturing, right?
And maybe some of the,
would you say the millennials?
Or the--
I was talking about the Gen Zs.
I don't know what the
millennials, if they--
I just wonder if that's
part of the calculus there
in terms of we want to get
things squared away because--
Oh, the fear.
The fear, that kind of thing, yeah.
So maybe the misconception that, okay,
if we have, let's just not get married
until we both have good jobs.
And until we both can buy a nice car,
and then we can buy a nice house,
and then let's get everything set up,
all of our ducks in a
row, everything's perfect,
then let's get married.
So that they think
that's what's gonna make it
so you don't get divorced.
They may be misconstruing that--
Might be a wild idea too, though.
I don't know if that's in play.
No, I don't know.
But that idea is, it's
kind of missing the point
of the building
together to accomplish all that
is what strengthens your marriage.
You're gonna find
more strength in building
that dream together than just making sure
the dream is sitting
there when you get home
from the wedding or the reception.
Like you get home from your honeymoon,
you go to your perfect life.
That's not gonna guarantee you
that you're not gonna get divorced.
And there's so much to be said.
Or not even divorced, just be happy.
Or be happy.
There's so much to be
said for going through trials
and tribulations together.
It's what strengthens a relationship.
It's what tells you,
it's what clues you in on,
oh, we're happy in this
moment, we're content,
things are good.
If things are great all
the time on the surface,
then you don't have--
But it's your mind wander a bit.
Yeah, yeah, I think,
yes, you're not grounded.
I think the meat and
potatoes of marriage,
going through working
your ass off together
in every aspect and just struggling.
We sacrificed a lot at times, a lot,
to get to where we are now.
But that struggling is
what has sustained us
and gotten us to 30 years of marriage.
It's a share, it's more like a sense
of shared accomplishment.
Yes.
And it's almost as simple
as if you painted your house
or cleaning your house.
There's a sense of accomplishment.
Yes.
It's sort of the same concept.
Yeah, it is, it's a
sense of accomplishment.
And then as a result,
you appreciate your life.
Yeah, yeah.
So gratitude, I can't
overstate this enough.
Gratitude is so imperative in a marriage.
It's really recognizing, looking around
and really appreciating what you have,
like what you've done, what you've built,
whether you're just
starting off in the apartment,
you're in the apartment, you
guys are doing it together.
Those are gonna be some of
the best years of your life.
Only can afford a 16.
Some of my fondest memories
when we lived in that
little felony flats.
Oh my gosh.
Place in Portland, Southeast Portland,
right off of 82nd Ave.
Anyone familiar with Gary knows it's
called Felony Flats.
We lived next to him, but
that guy, he was a meth dealer.
And we brought Nathan
home to that little house.
We had Mocha, we had a
little three foot high fence.
And I remember coming home for work,
Mocha would hop the fence,
then would hop back over.
That was our jam for a while.
Yeah, and one of the--
It was fun.
And it was fun.
And one of the reasons we lived in,
I mean, when I tell you
this house was the size
of a normal bedroom, the whole house.
Yeah, literally.
The kitchen was the size of a coat closet
and I'm not exaggerating.
The bathroom was the same.
But one of the
reasons we did that though,
is because you and I,
and we've talked about this
in other episodes, we had discussed
before getting married
that I wanted to be a stay at home mom.
My reasons were because I wanted that
because I didn't have that growing up.
You wanted me to be a stay at home mom
because that's what you had growing up.
We established that
before getting married.
Again, I can't stress that
enough to have that conversation.
But in order for me to be
a stay at home mom at 25,
or I turned 26 right
before having Nathan,
we had to live in felony flats in a house
the size of a normal
bedroom next to a meth dealer.
Now it was safe, I will say that.
I did not feel unsafe.
He was a smart meth dealer
because he made sure to take care of us.
He didn't make the meth there either.
I could say that
because that's dangerous.
He was a very, he was a
shady dude, but he was a nice.
I think he thought we
were this cute little family.
He's probably happy there's
normal people living next to him.
But I think the rent, and I
think it was $500 a month,
450 a month, something
very low, but it allowed.
And it was two miles
from where I was working.
It was two miles.
I think you biked to work at one point.
Because we had one car.
So we, when I say
sacrifice, so we made the decision.
We wanted me home with
Nathan, our older son.
So we needed to
downgrade our living situation.
And that was the sacrifice, right?
But not everybody needs to do that.
Some people are comfortable
with the two people working
and a child in daycare.
There were choices.
That's fine too.
We did make choices too,
where we could have
lived closer to family
and had an easier
life and had connections
with jobs or whatever, right?
Right.
But we chose to be where we wanted to be
and figured it out from there.
Yes.
So there's choices that were made.
It's true.
And they were fine.
Yeah.
No regrets actually.
Like I said, I think we
both look back on them fondly,
really.
Oh my gosh.
When you can only afford like a six pack
and a pizza on a Friday and
that's your big night out.
Like, and you're not even going out.
Having it at home.
But those are some of the best times.
And yeah, I would say from the start,
we always blazed our own trail.
Are you kidding?
Like we told our family at 23,
we're getting married in
Vegas, whether you like it or not.
So yeah, we are definitely that couple
that does what is right for us.
We've talked about
this in other episodes.
We've always tried to
recognize what's going to be best
for us, what's gonna serve us.
Not in a selfish way, but
as far as knowing boundaries
and all of that to keep
things for mental health.
And there was stuff going on.
It was better for us to
not be living near certain
situations.
But again, it's okay to
have those years where
you don't have everything.
That's the point.
That's the point.
But again, hey, if you've
struggled at the age of 25,
26, 27, wonderful.
There's nothing wrong with that.
That's amazing.
But this is for young people
that maybe are still building
their lives and are
thinking, I'm not gonna be able
to afford to buy a house.
Now again, in this economy right now,
it's so unusual, no one can.
But under normal
circumstances, if you're feeling it,
how am I gonna do this?
How am I gonna do this American dream?
How am I going to buy a house?
And there may be young
men that are thinking,
I want my wife to stay
home, but how am I going
to afford that?
So it is attainable.
It's just, there's gonna
be some struggle in that.
And your outside image,
you can't worry about that.
You can't sometimes
worry about what kind of car
you're driving or where you're living
while you're building
the dream, you need to
remember what your end game is.
And that you will get there.
So I don't know.
I mean, that's, again, we
went through a lot of that.
Not going without certain
things so that we could have
a certain lifestyle with the kids.
But again, that's
what was important to us.
There may be people that
don't want kids, get married.
You know, and that's a
whole different lifestyle.
So it doesn't mean that
marriage is any easier either.
You still have to work
together as a couple,
put in the time, you
listen to your partner.
And it's hard though.
But I think as you start young,
if you do get married young,
you are growing up together
and you're also figuring out who you are.
And there's a lot of, again, that's a
great thing at times,
but that can be a challenging thing.
But I wouldn't change anything.
No, I couldn't imagine
doing it any differently,
quite frankly.
I don't know how, there's
just no regrets in my mind.
How that playbook would
have worked out differently
if we did it some other way.
Right, there's no regret,
no doubts, nothing like that.
Yeah, no.
I mean, I think there is that feeling
when you meet your person
of a meant to be feeling.
You know, you're from New
Jersey, I'm from Oregon.
Yeah. Where are the chances?
So I think that there's, I don't know.
I think you know when
you meet your person,
but I think it's important to trust
in how you're feeling and not talk
yourself out of something
because of outside
influences, whether it's the world,
whether it's family,
whether it's friends.
If you know this is your person,
then just trust in
that and do life together.
Go do life together,
because I'm here to
tell you life goes fast.
30 years does not feel like 30 years.
No, not at all.
And I pray we have 30 more together.
Yeah.
So, and that's gonna go fast.
So if you've met your
person, go for it, do it.
I think the thing too, though,
is once you hit a certain age,
maybe it's like 40 or
something, I don't know,
but life starts to speed up for sure.
It speeds up so much.
We're in our low fifties now.
That seemed impossible five years ago.
Yeah, when you're 25,
you think 50 is old.
And I'm here to also say when you're 50,
you still feel 25.
Like you're more mature and
you have more life experience,
but you don't feel like an old person,
like you think old people feel like us.
I'm honestly still trying to figure out
what I'll do when I grow up.
Yeah, it's so true.
Just not, you know.
It's so true.
You know, so I think
don't hesitate so much.
I think it's hard, you
know, people need to just say,
"Okay, you know what, let's just do it.
"Let's just do life together."
What if it's right though?
I don't, yeah, if we could
be coming across here like,
"Yeah, go get married,"
you know, in your 20s,
it's not the message at all.
It's only if it seems right
and you think you found your person,
but I wouldn't rush into this
just to rush into it to check a box.
Oh, absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
No, that's not what I mean at all.
No, I know.
What I mean is if you're
in your 20s or your 30s
and you meet your
person, go do life together.
Don't feel like, "Okay, we can't start
until we own our home
"or until we have two nice cars
"or until we live where we wanna live."
That will all happen.
Just go get married and
start doing life together.
Just do it.
And it will all work out.
If you've met your
person, you're gonna do it.
It's gonna happen together.
You don't need to have
all the ducks in the room.
I think it's the same
for having kids too, right?
Yes.
There's definitely been a dip
in seeing young kids lately.
I think that's COVID related.
I think it's economically
the economy, inflation, COVID,
a new generation.
But I've started to see babies again.
Yeah.
And I have at least a couple.
Yes.
Not newborns, but having kids again.
Well, there's also been a whole new shift
with a lot of women who are
choosing not to have children.
A lot of women are
choosing not to get married.
They don't want to...
I think they view it as
just taking care of a man,
unfortunately.
And I think there are men that have led
them to believe that.
I think there's men in society
that have led them to believe that.
So it's valid how they're feeling.
But it's unfortunate
because there is such positivity
in friendship and
marriage and partnership.
And there is so many
joys in being a parent.
But I think that a lot...
There's the jaded you talked about.
I think there's a lot
of jaded young women
who are like, "Screw that.
I'm doing what I want to do.
I'm not taking care of a man.
I don't want to be a mother.
It's too much."
And I get it, but I
think there's been a shift.
Right?
You think it's women making that decision
and not men?
Or you think it's 50-50?
Or women are just
saying, "No, I'm not doing it."
I can only speak to women.
Like, okay, so
there's two things going on.
So like I've spoken about before,
the Gen Z women are honoring their...
Especially their 20s decade
is their self-care decade.
And it's not a placeholder for marriage.
And I think that's phenomenal.
But then there's also
young women that are like,
"I don't want to get married at all."
Like, I'm not even...
This isn't even a self-care decade.
This is like how my life's going to be.
So I can speak to that.
If I had to guess on why young men...
I don't think in general,
young men are going through a whole,
"I don't want to get married."
But I definitely think
there's young men that are thinking,
"How am I going to buy a house?
How am I going to support my family?"
Especially in this economy right now,
and how things have been going.
I don't know a future generation,
if the Boomers and
probably Gen X to some degree
have made it easy on
them as far as buying homes.
I mean, the Boomers are
holding on to their homes.
Where in the past...
They're about to move on though.
But in the past,
the older people would sell their house
and go into retirement living, right?
It's not happening as much anymore.
So those homes are
not being relinquished.
Well, they're not just...
It's not even just that.
A lot of the Boomer homes
are big and beautiful, right?
A lot of Boomers are
sitting on McMansions
that are very expensive.
So they're not necessarily your
entry-level housing.
So there's a huge
economic pressure there.
What's going on with the housing market?
It's a whole nother conversation,
but I definitely think it is
in the minds of the young men.
I'm sure it is.
But I feel like
there's more of a hesitation
that the slowdown in
marriage and having children,
I think is more on the young women.
So I hope that changes.
I think they're looking for more equality
in their partnerships.
I really do.
I think that they don't really like
the traditional roles as much
or what they perceive of what that means.
I'm sure a lot of them would be fine
being a stay-at-home mom
if they felt they had
the same level of respect
and appreciation for doing that.
So that's like a whole thing going on.
And then even like
working, why should I work
and then come home and take
care of everything at home
and the kids, they wanna make
sure that whoever they marry
is going to be there for everything.
So they're making sure
that before they get married.
When you say be there for everything,
what does that even mean?
Sharing housework.
Shared or take care of it all?
No, no.
They want 50-50, they want
you to help with the housework,
have childcare,
like watching the children
take care of the children.
Let me ask you, do you think that works?
Because that's not how
we've been straight up.
I don't do various things
and you don't do various
things in my start a fight.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
You have roles, there's
functional roles that make sense
that are shared responsibilities
that keep things moving forward.
So if you're asking what do I think
are the key to successes and roles,
I can speak to our
situation like you just said
and I'll say it straight out.
You take care of
everything outside of the house,
like the yard, everything
like that, you fix everything.
You take care of all technology.
You take care of just
pretty much all of the--
The man things.
The man things, I was
trying not to say that.
You take care of if the cars have issues.
If it's mine or you'll take care of it,
if not, we take it somewhere.
But I take care of the domestic stuff.
I've taken care of the
cooking, the cleaning,
the grocery shopping, the errands,
the pet, taking the pets to the vet,
all the kids' schedules.
That is what I've taken care of.
But I am a stay-at-home mom.
So I'm not doing that on top
of working outside the home.
I think that's different.
So if you have a woman
who's working eight hours
outside the home,
No, that's where it becomes a challenge.
Then he should be helping
with half of all that stuff.
Too many women are coming
home after working all day
and nothing's been done in the house.
No one's planning dinner except them.
The, I've been having to figure out
what this family's having for dinner.
This is a big thing.
For 30 years, I've been figuring out
what everyone is going to eat for dinner.
And a lot of times
for lunch and breakfast,
women are tired of that.
And I can't imagine working all day
and then coming home
and having to figure out
what everyone's having for
dinner night after night.
Women are burnt on that.
I'll tell you that right now.
But I think a lot of it is because
they're working two jobs.
Women are working outside the home
and women are working, doing
the job of a stay-at-home mom
when they get home at
night and on the weekends.
It's too much to expect of women.
It's not fair.
And so I do understand
why young women are saying,
hey, before I get
married, if I'm working,
you better be helping me with half
because I'm not doing what
I've seen my mom, my aunt,
my friends' moms go through.
They've witnessed the
stress of that on women.
And they're like, I am
not going to be that person.
So I will not commit to you
until we have this conversation.
Really, it's a fascinating thing
because it's an evolutionary thing.
Back in the 50s to the last millennium,
or the last century, it's
just this evolutionary thing.
Women have started to
work outside of the home.
And now that pushes an
additional responsibility
onto the traditional roles
that men and women have played.
Well, what happened was in the 80s,
all the women was go
to work, working women.
It's all celebrated.
That's all great.
You have your choices and that is great.
Go do what you need to do.
But there was not that
relationship switch of,
let's talk about this
first, okay, how is--
Unintended consequences.
Completely unintended consequences.
Women working outside
the home, as a society,
we didn't also say, okay,
now that women are
working outside the home,
you need to have a
conversation as partners.
How is everything
domestically gonna change?
Nothing domestically changed.
It was still all on the women.
You get to be the strong
woman working outside the home,
but guess what?
You come home and you're
still doing all the same stuff
that a woman was doing.
I think it's just now,
really in the last 10 years,
where that conversation's happening of,
okay, I don't wanna
come home and do everything
that a stay-at-home mom does.
And if I'm going to,
then I want my
husband to make enough money
so I can be a stay-at-home mom.
There's a lot of
young women that are like,
I'll take care of all that,
but I wanna be a stay-at-home mom.
It's almost like you can't have both.
For too long, men have had both.
They've had those stay-at-home mom
who works outside the home.
It's been a, women
going into the workforce,
it was wonderful for women,
but it was really great for men
because they got an extra income
and they still have their wife or
girlfriend, whatever,
doing the same stuff that
the women who stayed home did.
It's funny you say that
because I think back in the day,
men were probably bitching that women
are in the workforce taking their jobs.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, no, there's no winning right here,
but I think now there's another shift.
And again, it's these Gen Z women
and these younger
millennial women, I love them.
But I think they're saying, okay,
we are having this conversation,
it's part of having the
conversation of the roles.
This is the new role conversation.
You and I had it back in 1993 about,
I wanna be a stay-at-home mom,
you wanted your wife to
be a stay-at-home mom,
it all worked out.
The new conversation is,
okay, if I'm gonna work,
you're gonna do 50-50 at home.
You're gonna take care of the kid.
There's no, I'm gonna go golfing
and we're just assuming
I get my Saturday free.
No, no, no, this is 50-50.
Or you're gonna make enough money
and I'll stay home and
take care of everything.
So it's just, they're way
more assertive about it.
I love it, but what concerns me is,
are the young men
gonna rise to the occasion?
Because we still need
people to get married
and have children to
keep our society going.
You want your society
to function at a level
where everyone can continue to do
what the previous generation did, right?
That's part of your culture.
But when you've got
these various constructs
that are making it
harder for young people
to get together to afford things,
to have a decent lifestyle,
that's where all this
other stuff comes into play.
I think this is one of
the hardest times in history
for young Americans to even attempt
to get the American dream.
It's hands down.
It's a simple economic thing though.
It's supply and demand.
And there's not enough supply of things,
goods and services
and homes and whatever,
and there's more demand.
So the price has gone up.
And you're right, it's very difficult.
It's extremely difficult.
So you have a lot of stuff going on.
You have the head
going on, which is huge.
And then you have a
shift in how the young women,
their expectations of marriage.
I mean, you definitely
still have young women
who are very traditional.
And there's a whole segment of that.
And that's where everything exists.
But there is definitely a new shift.
And I think it's great.
I just think, keep
everything in perspective.
So if you do meet someone and he's like,
hey, yeah, I will,
we've had this conversation
and I'll do this, then go for it.
Like don't keep analyzing it.
Have your conversation.
If this all fits, go for it.
But if you continue to wait and be like,
well, let's just make
sure, let's do one more year.
You know how I feel
about, I've said this,
that if a guy doesn't, a
guy knows within a year.
And if he doesn't make
his move in three years,
what's happening?
Like he needs to make his move.
Because life's happening.
Like let's move on with this.
It's an interesting thing.
I'm happy for these young girls that are,
you know, protecting themselves, I guess,
or looking out for
themselves a little bit better.
I think that's a great thing.
They don't wanna be someone's maid.
Yeah.
They're like, I'm not
gonna just have children
and cook for you and clean
your house and cook for you.
I wanna be a valued
partner in this marriage.
And I think it's amazing.
Well, it's an
interesting thing because again,
evolutionarily
speaking, there used to be male
and female roles, hunters and gatherers,
those types of things, right?
Society's changed and you have to
continue to evolve that.
And there's no reason for a
young woman to not embrace that
and look out for herself.
Yes, that's exactly what it is.
But I think it went through watching,
I think the Gen Z
women are raised by Gen X
and general women.
And so they've watched,
okay, so the Gen Z women
have been raised by Gen X women.
So they've watched the Gen X
women that have gone to work
and come home exhausted and stressed
and then dealing with cleaning the house,
cooking and all the responsibilities.
And I think they've
thought, I don't wanna do that.
I don't wanna look, I
don't wanna feel exhausted.
I don't wanna look as stressed out as my
mom or my aunt looks.
I want more out of life.
I want more than that.
That's not the role I wanna play.
And so they're kind of
redefining their role.
They still want a partner
and they still wanna
get married in general.
But they're saying,
wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Yeah.
Like, it's great, you wanna marry me
and you wanna give me
a ring and all that.
But I have some
things to say to you first.
Well, it's not just I have
some things to say to you,
but I have certain
needs that I want to be met.
Exactly.
And I'm not just willing
to sacrifice all those.
Yeah.
It was kind of just this craziness.
Like women went back to work
and then they've just
been like treading water
for a few decades.
Well, society figured all that out.
And then the daycare
institutions popped up
and everyone just was kind of like
figuring it all out.
And I think this generation is saying,
okay, everybody stop.
This is chaos.
Things need to change.
And I think it's wonderful.
And they're not saying,
they're not saying
meaning things have to change.
I don't wanna get married.
They're saying before I get married,
I need a little bit more order to this
or else I'm gonna be
burned out by the time I'm 40
because I've been killing
myself at work and at home.
Yeah.
A lot of them wanna live their soft life.
Like a soft life is where every day
doesn't feel like a struggle.
Every day you're not
killing yourself for something.
They want it to be a
little easier on them
and that's shared responsibility.
Or that's my husband
is going to go to work
and I'm gonna take
care of things at home.
And that's not easy either.
I've lived that for 30 years.
A lot of women will tell you
who've been home
going to work was easier.
But it's at home, it never ends 24 seven.
There's no end.
It's everyone has access to you 24 seven.
That's a totally different ball game.
But you at least have that one job.
So it's not two.
You're not going to
work and doing that job.
You have one job.
So some of the
responsibility is taken off of women
a little bit and shared.
Yeah.
So I think it's good.
I mean, I see that more now
with just folks I work with
and people I know that we
know out and about, right?
Through our kids
activities that work two jobs
and they do share things probably.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
We just happen to live
a very traditional life
but that's what we wanted.
And even at the age of 22,
we communicated that
before even getting engaged.
That's what's worked for us.
It doesn't mean we think
this is what everyone should do.
Figure out what works
for you, both of you.
And then go for it.
Once you've had, once
you figured out, do it.
And you can probably speak to
carrying the financial load.
You know, like I've
carried the emotional load
of this family and the domestic load
and keeping the home front down.
And the home front is so important.
The home front is the
foundation that the entire family
bounces off of every day.
I can't say how much
I value women and men,
there's men too, that
create a successful home front
everyone can bounce
off of and be successful
when they leave the house.
But you've carried the financial load
so that I can be home
doing the home front.
And that's a whole different stress
that I think isn't
discussed what men go through.
Yeah.
Because it can keep you up at night.
Tell you the truth, I don't even know
if I'm prepared to
talk about it right now.
Cause it's just a
fascinating thing, right?
When you're the primary breadwinner,
you've got to continue to hustle.
You've got to continue
to probably compromise,
compromise on many fronts.
You've got to keep your
eye on what's going on
in the macro and micro
economic environments
of your life, right?
The broader economy, the
trends, all that stuff, right?
We all become small
economists in a sense.
We all joke that we're all meteorologists
when it comes to the weather,
you become somewhat of an
economist in your local life.
You've got to figure out
how to pay for college.
Do you want your kids
to go to private school
or do they go into public school?
All that stuff, right?
So.
How much does Costco cost?
Yeah, I know it's crazy.
Yeah, it's because you also have,
if you're in a situation where the woman
is doing the grocery shopping,
your girlfriend, partner, wife
is going and buying food
every week and that fluctuates.
And it fluctuates on how
much did you spend this week on?
How much is it gonna cost?
Everyone needs new shoes.
Everyone needs new clothes.
The lights need to be on.
The water bill needs to be paid.
I'm the, I've become my dad, right?
I walk around the house and I'm the guy
who turns off every
freaking light switch in the house.
Well now actually we've got smart bulbs.
So I can do it from my phone.
Yeah.
Very well worth the investment.
But it's so true because
you're paying that bill.
Hell yeah.
And so it probably almost
starts to feel offensive.
It is, it does get offensive.
Cause you start to look at,
offensive, I don't know,
it might be too strong.
I'm saying loosely, loosely.
But it's like, okay, I need new sneakers
and new sneakers today are two to $300.
Well, it depends on
which ones you're buying.
Yeah.
You're talking about your child, right?
Yeah, not me.
I'm looking, you know.
Your child is coming to you.
I'm in the boomer
generation of New Balance.
You know, side note on New Balance,
it sucks cause New
Balance were quite affordable
for guys my age.
Now they're back in,
it's like, wait, what?
I paid 30 bucks last year for that.
Dad's shoes.
Yeah.
Yeah, your dad's shoes.
No, but okay, so if you have a young,
in certain ages, kids think
that they need to have $200,
$300 shoes.
Well, it's not just that,
but it's the lights
are on, water's running,
the door's open and we
wanna go on vacation.
Yeah.
You know, it's like,
all this stuff is related.
Yes.
You know, and it's not,
it's just what makes it
so offensive, I think,
is that inflation is out of control
and nothing is cheap anymore.
So everything's expensive.
So it's like...
There's no break.
There's just no break, yeah.
There's just, and it's, you know.
It doesn't matter what's going on.
We're very, very fortunate.
Yes.
But there is no break,
everything is offensively expensive.
Nothing's cheap.
Nothing's really cheap anymore.
No.
Even gumballs, right?
How much is a gumball?
Like a buck probably or something?
I don't know.
Well, I mean a pack of gum.
If they make them anymore.
But no, you don't get a break.
That's a whole nother thing.
We've never experienced
in our 30 years of marriage
what we've gone
through the last three years
for our budget with
pricing for food, gas.
We've never experienced it.
It's just exponential on all fronts.
No, since 1994, we have
never had this experience.
And I can say from the person
who's been doing all
of the grocery shopping,
all of it for 32 years.
And I can tell you right now,
I've never experienced
something like this before.
As a result, yeah, everybody's,
they don't say checkbooks,
but everyone's tightening up their money
because everything is so expensive.
You know, it's funny,
and this is such a boomer statement.
So take it with a grain of salt.
I remember buying gas
for 79 cents a gallon.
Yeah.
And my dad gave me his credit card.
It was the shell card.
I could go and buy a
tank of gas for eight bucks
or nine bucks, right?
And now, wow.
I forget it.
Yeah, I don't even, it's
like, what are we, you know?
I don't know.
It changes every day.
I think we paid 379 last night.
Yeah, no, it changes every day.
We're in Florida.
I can't imagine what is in Oregon,
where they get taxed so much.
Costco used to be like,
you'd go drop 200 bucks,
250 bucks, and I'd be like,
what the hell did you spend?
Now it's five, $600.
And it's like, what?
It's the same stuff.
It's the same stuff.
I'm not buying anything.
I mean, once in a while at
Costco, I might get a pillow.
But no, you know what I mean.
In general, it's the same stuff.
Okay, so then bring that
down to a lower, like Publix,
you know, a Target, Walmart.
It's all double, tripled.
And that is where people
are just getting killed.
Because you still
have to feed your family.
You have to, people need to eat.
So for breadwinners, men or women,
breadwinners going through this.
And it could be both
partners or one partner.
Talk about stress.
So the stress of making sure
that as these prices go up,
your family still gets what they need.
It's gotta be astronomical at times.
Yeah.
You know, and it can affect,
if you don't take care of yourself,
it can affect your
health, your mental health,
your physical health.
I think that's why so many
people right now are feeling
just the way they are.
Because I think it's affecting them
mentally and physically.
It's just too much.
It's too much stress.
I think what it is, it's just relentless.
It's relentless.
And it's compounding and it's relentless
because maybe two people need to work.
Then you do wanna have kids.
And now two people have to
share in that child rearing,
right?
And all the costs and the scheduling,
everybody's over scheduled too.
No matter what it is,
whether it's kids
activities or your own interest,
whatever it is, there's
always something going on.
It's never just a
constant noise in a sense.
No, it's true.
But I think then you throw on how
expensive everything is.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's just, but I think relentless
is a great word for it.
And I'm sure coming from it,
from the financial aspect of it,
it feels more relentless now than ever
and figuring stuff out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Being the person
that's responsible for that.
Yeah, it's just, we've
outsourced most of America, right?
If you call AT&T,
cause your internet connection's down,
it is not someone
sitting in Portland, Oregon
where I got my career started, right?
I started in outsourced
tech support for US West.
That was based in Portland,
Oregon, Beaverton, Oregon.
It was all American workers.
When you call anybody now, it's offshore.
And the reason it's that
way is for inexpensive labor.
That's part of what's happening.
So it's really got an
impact on young people.
If you do wanna think
about getting married,
if you do wanna think
about starting a family,
all of those things,
it's just relentless.
Yeah, and I think
that's part of why right now
feels crazier than probably ever.
Even though, like I said,
when we were in the 80s and 90s,
it was crazy.
There was wars, there was a lot going on
and we still made the leap and got
married and had the hope
and wanted to create a family.
And I still encourage
people to do that today
cause I know it feels crazy.
I think your underlying
message is still on point.
And that's if you find your person,
there's always gonna be stuff going on
and you can still
proceed to move forward.
Live your life.
It's always been a challenge.
It's never been
necessarily peaches and rainbows
or whatever for everybody,
but it just kind of is what it
is and you just move forward.
Yeah, so even though right
now is crazy and expensive
and nuts, if you found your person,
just keep working on it together,
things will get
better and you will do it.
It always feels hard.
It's hard building a life together,
but it's so rewarding and that's where
you build the marriage
and that's where you find the joy.
And so even in these times,
I encourage people
obviously have your conversation
about your roles,
but then put your noses to the grindstone
and start working on that life together.
And don't be ashamed
if you're starting off
in a small little teeny tiny house or
apartment somewhere,
that's how it's supposed to go.
That's really the first step
in building this life together.
You do not need to have all the things.
All right, so I have a question.
Is there anything you
would do differently
or really, is there
anything you would do differently?
No, I would have.
I'm glad I got married as young as I did.
I'm glad we had
children starting pretty much
within a couple of
years of getting married.
Um, you know, I think
actually the only thing
that I would have done
more of is go to continue
to see live music a lot more.
We did see a lot of live music.
We took the kids to live music.
I would have kept going
to festivals probably more,
just you and me, that's it.
The thing I would do
different is through all the chaos,
I would have tried to get
away more just the two of us.
We did not do that.
We were so close with a
family union tied together
and it's wonderful, but I
probably would have tried
to go away once a
year, just the two of us,
even if it was to see a concert,
like a music festival or something,
like where we spend a couple nights away.
So that's the only
thing, but there's nothing bad
that we didn't do that, but looking back,
now that we're doing it again, I'm like,
I wish you would have kept
doing this, but life got crazy.
Once your kids are in
sports, it's so hard to get away.
And all of our kids have been in sports,
but I probably would do that.
I would say try to get away a little bit,
just the two of you a little
more, that would be my advice.
What about you?
Actually, I think that's a great answer
because I was thinking I don't know
what I would do differently.
We should have stayed more in
touch with our musical roots
and attended live music
far more often than we have.
Yeah.
You know, it was that
one time, I think it was,
what was it, like
2000, or whatever it was,
we went to Gathering of
the Vibes for the 10 year,
it's 2005, the 10 year
anniversary of Jerry Garcia
celebration at Gathering of the Vibes.
That was amazing.
It was.
And I remember thinking,
oh, we should have been doing this more.
There's people still doing this.
Yeah, it wasn't concerts,
because we kept doing that.
It was more going away,
and just the two of us.
But again, it's
challenging, it's hard, it's expensive,
even if it's once every three years.
Doesn't should be once a year,
but we should have
pulled ourselves out more
and gone and done stuff like that.
Other than that, no, I have zero regrets.
I don't even regret
that, but I have no regrets,
and I think it's been
a wonderful 30 years.
And like I said, I'm looking
forward to the next 30 years.
The only other thing I
wish I would have done
is invested in
Microsoft, Apple, and Oracle.
Those three stocks have done, you know.
I'm sure you're not the
only one that feels that way.
No, but I would say
it's been a great 30 years.
And marriage is a wonderful thing,
and being a parent is a wonderful thing.
It can be, but you have to work at it.
But it takes work.
You have to grow, get the growing change,
and have some humility,
and be willing to accept it.
Just change, grow up.
Grow up.
If you wanna have an
authentic, close relationship
with your partner, if
you really wanna be close,
then you do, it takes work.
And there's gonna be bad times.
It does not mean you get divorced.
It doesn't, because
it's gonna get good again.
We're here to say that.
I hope.
You hope, you hope.
Anyways, thank you for listening,
and we encourage all
questions, comments, anything,
if you wanna share any
of your own experiences.
We've got a budding fan base.
We really appreciate it,
and love the comments we get.
And yeah, it's cool.
Yeah, so thank you for
all the support so far.
We'll see you next time.
Bye.
Bye.
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