Episode 24 - GenZ Women Series: Kierstin

[Music] Welcome to GenX Adulting and today we have Kirsten with us. Welcome. Hello, thank you for having me. We're so happy to have you today. So the first question we ask everyone is what year were you born? I was born in 1997. Okay, so you're a Gen Z's, a lineal. Okay. So do you know what's a lineal? I do not, but I would be lying if I said I didn't look up the age range before this, like the years. And I did see I was on kind of the cusp for both. Yes. Yes. So you're kind of in that micro generation that you don't relate at all to like kids that are like 14, 15, 16. Those Gen Z's, they're having a completely different childhood than you had, but you don't totally relate to the 38, 39, 40 year old millennials. Right. So you're kind of, you have a foot in each generation. You were able to experience some of your childhood without technology, without a phone, definitely without social media. And by the time that entered your world, it was probably more high school age. So you kind of got a little bit of that old-fashioned childhood before social media entered the picture. And then you got to have that social media phone experience when you were a little bit older. I always say you guys had the best of both worlds. I think so too. I remember I wasn't allowed to have like the iPhone, I think until I was maybe a sophomore in high school, but all the kids around me did. So I still had that like flip phone with the antenna. Yeah, could not relate to anyone. Everyone thought it was like a walkie talkie. Yeah. And then I remember, yeah, my sophomore year, I think Instagram had come out. Right. And it was, I mean, at the time Instagram was not what it is now. It was just more so like you follow only people, you know, like that kind of vibe.

year, I think Instagram had come out. Right. And it was, I mean, at the time Instagram was not what it is now. It was just more so like you follow only people, you know, like that kind of vibe. And you were private. Oh, I was private on Instagram and I was posting like, you know, random photos of like the beach or like random photos of like a grilled cheese I made. Like nothing crazy. And now it's so thought out that it's yes, completely different, completely different. So and then you guys got to experience Snapchat when it started. And I think were you part of Facebook when it first came out? I was. I remember I got Facebook, I think in middle school because I was in yearbook and the theme that year was Facebook themed. I had to get one because I had no idea what Facebook was. Right. And same kind of situation. It was very more relaxed. I feel like like you could post like 10, 15 statuses a day. You could change your profile picture five times a day. Like it wasn't that thought out to where it is now where it's kind of more, I feel like planned in a way. Yeah. Post on there like it was very freeing if anything. It was more spontaneous. Exactly. Nothing was thought into how it is now. And I don't think anyone your age now really is on uses Facebook. No. I'll check it sometimes more so to see what I guess like older family members who still use it. But nobody I know is posting, you know, life updates on there. It's all Instagram. So it's all Instagram. What about TikTok though? Is your age still really using TikTok? So I use it more so as just kind of like a scrolling thing. I'm not one to post to TikTok and I kind of feel like more people my age are kind of the same. Okay. I don't really see too many people

So I use it more so as just kind of like a scrolling thing. I'm not one to post to TikTok and I kind of feel like more people my age are kind of the same. Okay. I don't really see too many people posting kind of like what they do in a day or just pretty much anything. I feel like it's more my generation is just kind of like a scroller like entertainment. Exactly. Like something to do before you go to bed when you're bored. Just scroll through but most younger people that I see they use it as like they're posting. I've seen people post like a photo dump which people do more so on Instagram. So it's kind of I feel like almost shifting. Yes. That people yeah Instagram on TikTok now. I think the younger Gen Z's do those photo dumps. Yes. Yeah. What is this? Yeah. It's confusing. I'm like this is an Instagram thing but I feel like saying that I know I know and then does your age still use Snapchat? I would say a lot less. I remember when I was in college people would you know post the Snapchat stories and people would it was a lot more popular. I guess like people would use it as more of like a solid form of communication as opposed to like texting or calling people would just Snapchat. Yeah, but more so now I feel like I'll check it once a day. Snapchat like three people and then that's about it. Okay. So he's really posting. Okay. So for communication you guys are texting. Yes. Now we're back on the texting which I feel like is how it always should have been. It's like full circle. Exactly. Yeah. Used to be like texting was weird like you would Snapchat your friends or you would Snapchat just anybody and that was your form of communication. You'd type what you had to say on the Snapchat. Yeah, or even you people would use

you would Snapchat your friends or you would Snapchat just anybody and that was your form of communication. You'd type what you had to say on the Snapchat. Yeah, or even you people would use Snapchat messaging like I would communicate with people over that. Yeah. Yeah. And now it's kind of odd. Yeah. Is that an age thing because I think when you're younger maybe you wanted the privacy or the perception of privacy that your parents couldn't see it. I guess so. I feel like it could be an age thing but also I feel like at the time I was thinking it was almost like kind of cooler to be using this app as opposed to texting. Right. So I definitely gravitated more towards that but now yeah so much now would you say like especially with TikTok but with scrolling in general would you say that that has definitely diverted you away from watching. streaming services on TV. No 100%. I used to be like such a show watcher Netflix to everything and I was actually talking about this with my sister the other day. I don't watch that much TV. My sister's a huge TV watcher. So anytime she has a TV on I just kind of hop on with her and watch whatever she's watching. Yeah, but I'm never one to turn on the TV and throw something on and instead you're scrolling exactly which is so bad. Like I'm trying to divert away from that but it's just kind of like I don't know if it's like an attention span thing but I like to watch the short little. clips and then move on move on to something different. Yeah, I don't know. I think it's a kind of a movement because I know the streaming services are not thrilled about TikTok and and even you know, they've got used to Facebook and Instagram but I think TikTok has definitely affected 100 streaming

I know the streaming services are not thrilled about TikTok and and even you know, they've got used to Facebook and Instagram but I think TikTok has definitely affected 100 streaming services and they they're trying to figure it all that out. So I didn't know because I know for us at least we don't watch as much TV. We're more on social media. I watch TV outside of football season and then March Madness maybe the World Series. I don't watch TV. Yeah, and even a lot of TikTok accounts will post I guess like popular clips. Yes, certain shows like Grey's Anatomy. I watched like five clips earlier today of like a very key point in the show and I'm like, okay, I got my TV fix like I saw something interesting but absolutely and even like we don't have Hulu but I'll watch someone will put clips up of like right now. It's about that Ruby Frankie that woman who abused her kids. I the documentary about that on TikTok on TikTok. So now I'm just watching all the shorts because we don't have Hulu. I'm like, this is great and I get my fix. I'm like then after a few days. I'm like, I don't want to hear about her anymore. Exactly. You know kind of like what you said with like the fix. I'll watch like a whole documentary or a movie or TV show and like I'm not one to like sit down and be able to just sit through it like I like to get up and walk around or go do something else. But yeah, kind of like you get your like couple minute fix on TikTok and then you're like, do you binge watch anything? Binge watch. So like I said, like my sister Ashlyn, she rewatches TV shows all the time. Yeah, like old shows like I'm talking like pretty little liars vampire diaries like she'll be rewatching. So then I'll end up sitting down and watching them with her.

Yeah, like old shows like I'm talking like pretty little liars vampire diaries like she'll be rewatching. So then I'll end up sitting down and watching them with her. Yeah, but definitely older TV shows we rewatch same here like Kyle put on she even got him into vampire diaries. We were watching it now for like a week. Oh my sit down with us. He's the typical guy that like walks around and is watching as you're well, what's going on and then he's asking questions. But Dylan our youngest son is really into prison break right now. I've seen that and now Kai has gotten into it and now you've been watching. I'm off of it, but I watched it for like three or four days in a row. That's why I ask if you binge watch because I don't but sometimes you get sucked in. It's good. You should check it out. It's funny. Yeah, do not check it out. It's funny. Anyways, okay. So where were you born? I was born in Boca Raton. Okay, and in raised. All right. So you grew up in Boca. Yes, and you mentioned you have a sister and do I have a younger sister. We live together right now. Okay, planning on keeping living together. Okay, and where did your parents meet? They actually met in Boca in Meisner Park. No way. Yeah. So my both of my parents are from out of state. My dad's from Michigan. My mom's from Minnesota. Okay, they both moved down around the same time kind of like later high school years. It's funny. My mom actually went to Boca High too. No way. Yeah, I had someone show me an old yearbook. I know somebody whose parents went there and I found my mom's yearbook picture, which was super funny. That is so cool. But my dad was I guess like a bar regular at this one place in Meisner. And so is my mom's dad, my grandpa and my grandpa was like, oh my daughter's like living

was super funny. That is so cool. But my dad was I guess like a bar regular at this one place in Meisner. And so is my mom's dad, my grandpa and my grandpa was like, oh my daughter's like living with me for a little bit. He lived in Meisner too. He was like, yeah, she's like a couple floors above us like someone come get her downstairs. Like so she can be social. She's like reading a book or something. Was this after she graduated from Boca High or was she still in high school? I guess so she graduated Boca High then she kind of traveled around for college. She went to like Florida State. She was in Denver and then she went to law school in Texas. Oh, wow. This was post law school. Okay, and my dad went upstairs knocked on the door. She was very confused what this man was doing and it just kind of went from there. Now, was he older than her? Actually two years younger than her. Oh, wow. Okay, so he was a bartender or he was a regular at this bar regular at this bar. So what did he do at the time? He's always been in for the most part his family's like a big car family like they owned like a bunch of like Volkswagen dealerships and then I think this is a few years before he ended up opening like a Ford dealership and look like Okachobi very far very random, but he was always in the car business. I'm pretty sure at the time he was something with that something with cars. Yeah, okay. And then how do you know how long they dated before they got married? I think they met later like kind of later in life. Like I think they were in there like early to mid 30s at this point. Okay. I don't think they dated probably around two years. I would say two to three years. Okay. Yeah, it was definitely kind of like later. So she went to school and she was she

Okay. I don't think they dated probably around two years. I would say two to three years. Okay. Yeah, it was definitely kind of like later. So she went to school and she was she practicing law when they met? She was a probate in a state lawyer. Oh, okay. And here in Boca right in Boca the woman she works for still runs her. Law practice. I think it's it's in Meisner kind of right by Meisner. Okay, and then so they got married and then how soon were you born after they got married? I think I was born maybe two years after they got married. My mom was I think 38 at the time. Oh, okay. So later in life. She had Ashland when she was 41. Okay later in life for sure. Yeah. Wow. Wow. So that that's kind of cool though because she she did all her things exactly. She like lived her life to the fullest. She got like an amazing career, which I feel like it's like super comforting to kind of think about. Yeah. I feel like there's so much pressure to like get married have kids do all this stuff, but then I think about my mom and I'm like she was 38 when she had me. Yes. Yeah, there's no rush there. No, no, we actually had a guest on Jasmine that had a similar situation where she went to she went to school. She had her career and I think around the same ages as your mom did with you guys and she it was great. She said I did all the things. She recommends it. She recommends it. Yeah, that that work whatever works for everyone obviously, but that's you know, it worked for her. It worked for her and and it's interesting to use the word comfort because I'm sure there there is that social pressure even for your generation for sure. I remember being like 1819 meanwhile all my college roommates. We were all talking about this and we

there there is that social pressure even for your generation for sure. I remember being like 1819 meanwhile all my college roommates. We were all talking about this and we were all like we want to be engaged by 25 married 26 like first kid at 27 and now I'm 27 and I'm like, I'm nowhere near ready for that. Yeah. Yeah at the time. I feel like that's what everybody kind of wanted or thought they needed now. What about now has that adjusted for your friends as well? I think now that I think about it most of my friends are kind of same boat. Everyone's actually I feel like I can go two different ways. I have friends that are ready to get married have kids like immediately like they I feel like still feel that pressure that they haven't gotten to that point in their life, but then other side I have friends that are kind of like where I'm at now where I'm kind of like I'm not in a rush. I'm not going to force anything. It's just kind of more relaxed. Like I definitely want to live my life a little bit more, but like you said earlier like it's whatever works for you now. Do you feel that it is more accepted though now that you're out there and you're away from school and you're living the quote-unquote adult life. Are you feeling that it is more accepted to wait? Oh 100% I feel like definitely now. I feel like I'm seeing a lot more people kind of waiting for that type of thing as opposed to just kind of rushing into it. But I feel like it's definitely more accepted and I feel kind of more like an internal comfort with it than I did years ago where I was like, oh my goodness. I'm so behind you're not carrying that anxiety exactly. Yeah, that's wonderful because with my generation it was just like that's what

ago where I was like, oh my goodness. I'm so behind you're not carrying that anxiety exactly. Yeah, that's wonderful because with my generation it was just like that's what you do exactly and I feel like people looked at like their parents or like what was kind of expected in earlier years and they were like, I've got to do that. Yeah, and then you had a great example with your parents, you know, and it worked out. So your family, your parents settled here in Boca raising you and your sister. And they were both working or did your mom stay home? So when I was born my mom was continuing working, but then once she had my sister, she kind of I guess became a stay-at-home mom. She didn't really I think in the first few years she worked a little bit, but it was I guess you would say more hybrid like she would do some work from home, work in office. But then once my sister I think got a little bit older, she just went to full time. Yeah, yeah, and it's nice that with her career, she could probably do work from home a little bit and gave her that freedom and then so your little family is humming along and then was there any big life change that happened? Yes, so when I was in middle school, I think I was in sixth grade. My mom got diagnosed with breast cancer and at the time it was just stage one super early. My parents like there's nothing to be concerned about, you know, we didn't really know what cancer was. Like nobody kind of I guess gave us the rundown on what it was. I don't even think I learned about it in school at the time. Like we were super young. We were just basically told she was sick, but she was going to get better. So then she was fine, went through chemo, went through radiation, but then by the time I was in eighth grade,

We were just basically told she was sick, but she was going to get better. So then she was fine, went through chemo, went through radiation, but then by the time I was in eighth grade, I think it was halfway through eighth grade, I started noticing she was like losing her hair again and going to more doctor's appointments, but I think both my parents kind of kept us in the dark on it. And ultimately she did end up having stage four terminal and she passed away April of my eighth grade year. So your entire middle school experience, which is usually not the best experience for most kids in general, was your mom had cancer. So how did that affect those years for you? Because they're already tough. Oh, 100 percent. I mean in sixth grade when she had first been diagnosed, it definitely did take a bit of a toll on me. But again, I didn't really understand it, I guess to the fullest extent. But like you said, middle school is always rough. It was definitely rough for me because I've always been kind of more on the quiet, shy side. So I definitely struggled with that. And then I'm not one to at the time, like kind of share what's going on. So nobody really knew except a couple of close family friends that I had gone to school with. So it was kind of like going through middle school, which is being like the kind of shy, quiet kid. And then having that going on at home definitely made it super tricky. And then her passing away, I guess towards the end of my eighth grade year, I'm about to go to high school. Like definitely made it hard. Were you always shy and quiet? Always in elementary school, middle school. And then I would say high school towards the end, I became a little bit more, but nothing not like a drastic change. Like I was still very

Always in elementary school, middle school. And then I would say high school towards the end, I became a little bit more, but nothing not like a drastic change. Like I was still very to myself, very quiet. Did you internalize things? Oh, definitely. Like I definitely had struggles in middle and high school that even I feel like I have a couple of close friends from high school, like maybe two or three. But they still don't even know, I guess, like the full extent of everything going on because I kind of would just go and was do you think that's genetic? Like was your mom or dad like that? My mom was very to herself. Okay. And post her passing away would have people be coming up to me and telling me, you know, she kept everything to herself. Like we had no idea. Okay. I think that kind of thing. So I definitely got that from her. So that makes sense. Then it wasn't just you and your sister. She was they were keeping it from sounds like she was very private. In general, exactly. Even yeah, towards me and my sister towards before she passed away those months leading up, like we kind of had to figure it out ourselves. Almost what was happening and we didn't find out that it was as bad as it was until a week before she passed away. Interesting. So that would have been that's traumatic. Mm-hmm. Do you think looking back at those ages you were and Ash Ashton would have been elementary school, right? I was fifth going into sixth. So another big transition. Another transition year. Oh my goodness. We're going in middle. Okay. So do you think looking back it would have helped you guys if there was more communication? I kind of go back and forth on this actually because I still to this day don't really know how that went down with

have helped you guys if there was more communication? I kind of go back and forth on this actually because I still to this day don't really know how that went down with them deciding not to tell me like there was one day I came home from school. This was probably a month before she passed away and randomly on my dresser in my childhood bedroom. There's like a stack of papers and it was her medical papers that had the diagnosis on there. It said stage for everything. And I mean at the time I kind of had a little bit of better understanding about it and I remember bringing her the papers. I was like, oh these were in my room and I asked her I was like, oh, what stage like cancer do you have? And she said one but the paper said four. So that was kind of when I started to understand like they don't want us knowing all of this. But now that I had read that I kind of had a better understanding but nobody had told me that it was terminal or like there's really no chance of her getting better. So I go back and forth because at one point it's kind of like nicer that we I guess weren't dwelling on it for months leading up to it. Like we still got to enjoy our time with her. She was kind of in and out of the hospital. We go visit her there. But then at the same time I'm like I kind of wish I knew because aside from the not dwelling on it part like I wish I could have I guess like made more memories or talk to her a little bit more. Ask her more questions like that. Right. Right. And processed it more because you probably spent I would assume a decent amount of your life after she passed processing it. And it was kind of I guess I don't want to blame this on my dad's part. So I feel like the way he processed it is

amount of your life after she passed processing it. And it was kind of I guess I don't want to blame this on my dad's part. So I feel like the way he processed it is he thought oh I have two young girls now like I've kind of got to get them through this and he thought getting us through it would be by not really talking about it. So we never went to like grief counseling. We never like as it was pretty much like after she had her celebration of life like my dad tried to have us like kind of move on from it. He was problem solving. Exactly. And he thought that was the best way to do it kind of belittle what had just happened not in a bad way but just no no. It in a sense of let's move on with life like I think I only took one day off of school. She had passed when a Saturday I was back in school on a Tuesday. It was kind of like right back into life because I guess that's what he thought would have been best. So it was almost an avoidant route. Exactly. Yes. Okay. So it with that going on and your dad saying we're just going to keep going. We're going to you know your mom passes. Your dad is like I'm blown away. I'm sorry that you took one day off of school. I'm still processing that right now. I was thinking the week that she had passed away. She passed away on a Saturday that week leading up to the Saturday was fcat testing. Oh wow. At this point we knew that she was going to eventually pass away. But she had told my dad she wanted us to still go and take the fcat. She was like my girls need to go get their education. Yeah. All these things. I went to middle school took the fcat and then I would go home after unbelievable. Honestly, so and she was already thinking ahead as a mother does you know and I know your parents definitely did what

then I would go home after unbelievable. Honestly, so and she was already thinking ahead as a mother does you know and I know your parents definitely did what they thought was right for you guys. But still there's an emotional element there that probably wasn't dealt with or acknowledged. And so did you feel a responsibility to acknowledge that for your sister and give her the space for that? I did in a way. I feel like if anything once everything happened like it definitely brought Ashlyn and I closer. I would say more so a few years past everything happening. I feel like I internalized everything. I kind of dealt with things myself in the first like two or three years after it happened. I kind of just kept to myself about everything and it was more so I guess I was battling with myself as opposed to what I wish I had done and kind of took it on like that motherly role in a way. But I would say like definitely now I feel like more of a like I mean, I know my sisters 25 now, but I still feel like that like motherly kind of instinct towards her like right. Help her with everything do whatever I can for her maternal instinct exactly. But at the time, I definitely feel like I kind of took the route where I was just dealing with it myself and kind of isolated from everyone. Did you both kind of do that? Did you both kind of go your separate spaces and and cope with your mom's passing in your own way? I feel like in a way we at the time like again like with internalizing it we never really properly coped. So I don't quite know how she I guess moved like forward from it. Because I mean, I don't know how much she remembers because she was I think 10 or 11 at the time, but I feel like we both like how we were kind of almost shown to

moved like forward from it. Because I mean, I don't know how much she remembers because she was I think 10 or 11 at the time, but I feel like we both like how we were kind of almost shown to do just to move on keep going like we both didn't know what each other were like thinking about it. They weren't one to talk about it. My dad never talked about it. So it was all very much to ourselves. Is she is she as shy as you would say you are? Are you different? I think we're different from what I know about her like high school experience her middle school experience. She was kind of had like a big friend group. She was kind of more out there like she was you know, like doing things after school like more. So I was kind of like go to school go home towards like later in high school. I tried to get like more involved with things like I was in like leadership and I did like Decca. So I was trying to get myself more out there. I was like, I'm kind of tired of being like right by myself in a way like in being like the quiet person. Right. So do you feel that with your mom's passing it compounded your shyness and your quietness for a while because you were self isolating. Definitely. That's how you were coping my when I probably chose to end in my eighth grade year after it happened. I would go days without saying a word at school. Like I would go to school. I'd set lunch like I would sit with a group of like people who were in my class, but I would never speak. Freshman's sophomore year to same thing. Like I think I had a group of friends my freshman year and I would go sit with them at lunch and I would not say it worked. I would just kind of say eat my lunch. Like I was so to myself with everything and I didn't want it.

freshman year and I would go sit with them at lunch and I would not say it worked. I would just kind of say eat my lunch. Like I was so to myself with everything and I didn't want it. I was not one to share about what was going on in my life. So nobody really knew like how much of a struggle it was. Did they even know that your mom had passed? So one of them she's still one of my good friends this day, but she had known she was there the day she passed. She came over her friend. There was a good family friend like a good friend from kindergarten, but she was one of the friends. But I feel like she also didn't really know how to what to do because I had always been super shy and super quiet, but that definitely amplified. So you were kind of functioning in your own little bubble for like a few years. And just just coping and grinding through. How long would you say you stayed in that state? I want to call it a bit of trauma, a little bit of a state of trauma. You're functioning. You're high-functioning trauma. Exactly. How long would you say you existed in that that state? I would say honestly going probably. I think halfway through college. I kind of started to realize that like dealing with this trauma and like everything from growing up. I started you know, like going to therapy. I was like therapy is not a bad thing. Like at the time after my mom had passed, I thought therapy was a bad thing just because we were never brought to a therapist. We were never given that option. Right. I mean, I think I saw like the school guidance counselor in middle school like once when I went back the day at like that Tuesday. I saw a guidance counselor but I had always kind of had this like negative stigma about it.

guidance counselor in middle school like once when I went back the day at like that Tuesday. I saw a guidance counselor but I had always kind of had this like negative stigma about it. I guess halfway through college by then I had kind of forced myself to almost do a 180. Like I forced myself to be more social which like it was a good and a bad thing. I feel like I put myself out there in good ways in bad ways. I made like a lot of great friends but then like it kind of started catching up to me like that. It was kind of an act that I was like this okay all the time. Yes, that makes sense. So then I started kind of seeking some help there which definitely really helped me because you went from internalizing everything and not sharing anything with anybody and self coping to then the exact opposite and being out there and being probably boisterous and loud and partying and all that. I mean Florida State like yes, but that's a shock to the system. Exactly. Well, there's a lot of shitty people out there too that you weren't interacting with now. You are. Exactly. Yes, big shock. Yeah, like I would go to school go home like I wasn't you know, like I had my little friend group but I wasn't making friends out of that. I wasn't like really talking to anyone and then all of a sudden none of my friends really went to Florida. None of them actually went to Florida State. So wow. It was okay. Immediate have to make new friends. So you get through high school. I'm just I have to go back. I'm shocked that your middle school did not deal help you more. Which school did you go to? It's on Estridge. The guidance counselor met with you once. It was the Tuesday after it happened. She or she didn't even pull me out of class.

Which school did you go to? It's on Estridge. The guidance counselor met with you once. It was the Tuesday after it happened. She or she didn't even pull me out of class. It was my fourth grade or fourth grade fourth period science teacher had met. She said to me that day. She was like, oh, Kirsten like the guidance counselor wants to see you during lunch. I went and talked to the guidance counselor during lunch. One of my friends, the one friend from elementary school came and sat with me during lunch in her office. And then I think that was the last time that I spoke to her. It's crazy. It's yeah, I kind of wish they did reach out and work. Like I said, I was not one to reach out or like go to the guidance counselor myself. And you were a child. Yeah, I'm just I'm blown away. I I'm I'm that you didn't have teachers even that were aware of what's going on because you are the child. And it's not up to you to tell adults what you need. The adults need to take care of what you needed at the time. That day that I did come back, my teachers did know almost all of them had said something to me when I came in because I did miss a lot like that week before I would go to the F count. Then I would go home and I wouldn't be there for school. I had one teacher tell me I didn't need to make anything up. She was like, well, that's good. Yeah, I did have a couple of teachers and one of my teachers was my mom's good friend. So she was definitely very understanding, very comforting. When I came back, that was good that I walked in the class. That day, I'm sure. Goodness. What are you doing here? I'm sure. But I feel like it definitely that's what I was wondering. Were there female? Were there women in your life in those

That day, I'm sure. Goodness. What are you doing here? I'm sure. But I feel like it definitely that's what I was wondering. Were there female? Were there women in your life in those few years after your mom passed that reached out or were there to support you at all? So we had the neighborhood I grew up in. My dad still lives there. So we have made pretty much a lot of close connections. I had some friends in the neighborhood who were good friends with my mom. So in the beginning, it was kind of like they were reaching out a lot. But as time moved on, I mean, they had their own lives like that kind of thing. I don't blame them. You know, they would check in when they could kind of thing. One of them is still like super close with Ashlyn. I to this day really like lives behind my dad, good friends with him, but it's kind of like, you know, like they have their own lives. Yeah. So it's not like they could be there all the time. But I feel like they still did make a pretty positive impact. That's good. Do you have family members, aunts or cousins or anybody that lived close at that time? So at the time, I would say more so on my dad's side. We're not super close with them. Okay. So there wasn't really any support from there. And then my mom's side, she has four brothers. One still lives in Minnesota. We don't really talk too often. And then the two other brothers, one was divorced. So we didn't really have, you know, like his wife and then the other one married. She would again, like kind of from time to time, but not super involved, but she definitely did make that effort. And then what about grandparents? So I did have my, so my mom's parents had passed away by then. I think my mom's dad passed away when I was seven and my mom's mom

definitely did make that effort. And then what about grandparents? So I did have my, so my mom's parents had passed away by then. I think my mom's dad passed away when I was seven and my mom's mom passed away before I was born. Okay. And then on my dad's side, I had my grandma and my grandpa, but my grandma, I think passed away two years later. She was extremely close with my mom. So she took it very hard. She was very, very sweet lady, but kind of around the time when my mom passed away, her health started declining. Okay. So then it was kind of more so she couldn't be as involved as she probably wanted to. Okay. So you're an island unto yourself basically and then there for your sister when needed, when you were able to be. But really you got, you were going through high school, you're getting through high school, but putting yourself out there with Decca, with leadership. Did you play sports? I did. I did not actually in middle school. I had done track and then high school. I'm just not a coordinated person. I did try. Yeah, but I was more so trying to just I guess get involved with the non athletic. Okay. I did it. Did doing leadership doing Decca, did it help you with your shyness? I think more so leadership did just because I did meet two of my still closest friends to this day. Mm-hmm. If it wasn't for doing leadership, I don't know what the rest of my I guess high school experience would have been. I don't know what I would have done. Yeah, it definitely did kind of push me out of my limit, but I still was a guest in leadership that like shy quiet girl. And just to explain for listeners who don't know what leadership is, how would you sum it up? I guess I would say it's more it's kind of like a student government, but it's

And just to explain for listeners who don't know what leadership is, how would you sum it up? I guess I would say it's more it's kind of like a student government, but it's not so much like everyone in there has like a you know, like a treasurer or vice president. It's kind of like a class you apply an interview for and then you kind of plan all the events and all the fundraisers pep rallies like all kind of the I guess like school spirit or yeah, you're very involved. Yes, and it's a large group. Yeah, there was they had like an upper and a lower like a freshman sophomore, probably 30 kids, junior, senior, probably 40 maybe. Yeah, so it isn't just like you said like six kids that hold a government position. It's it's an actual group that's very involved at the school. So yeah, I would imagine that helped it's it but you're still internalizing your soul in your bubble. You graduate you choose Florida State. You none of your friends go there. So you get there you're in the dorms your roommate. You didn't know I didn't know I ended up getting or I picked a roommate. I did the whole Facebook meeting a roommate thing because back then they were doing that. Yeah, so I was part of like the FSU class of 2019. And I had met this girl I met so I had a summer and a fall roommate both different. My summer roommate we ended up getting put in a three three. So we had a third additional room. Okay, I didn't even know if you had those. Yeah, it was a three three and then we had like the two suite mates on the other side. Okay, but we end up getting along great with our third roommate, which was good because we were kind of oh my goodness. Yeah, you and I have been talking for months right now. We have a third but it ended up working

with our third roommate, which was good because we were kind of oh my goodness. Yeah, you and I have been talking for months right now. We have a third but it ended up working out perfectly and the same thing with my fall roommate. We were in a tutu and it just ended up being great. And that's wonderful. So good friends with them. I would say my summer roommate the one that I had met over Facebook her and I are still super close. Wow, join the same sorority. We met like a third week. We were like a little trio and I'm still super close with all of them to this day. That's great again, like super great. Yeah, that's great. So you joined a sorority. I did. So that was probably another thing to help you that helped you break out of that shyness. I would assume I would say so. I feel like I still probably going through the sorority. I still had my close group of friends where I felt like I could be more I guess out there or like more vocal and kind of like I want to say like be more myself and feel more comfortable. But then when big group settings even to this day big group settings, I feel like a little bit more kind of a listener or in the background than being. Like the main, you know, the main character. Exactly. I'm more like in my friend group, like we all can have our main character moments, but in like a big group, I feel like I can be like a little side character, which honestly doesn't bother me as much as it probably used to and kind of like okay with that now. But in the sorority definitely feel like I was a side character. I did do some sort of position holding there. They had like a relay for life. I was there like contact for it. So I was still trying to put myself out there in different ways. I guess that I felt

I did do some sort of position holding there. They had like a relay for life. I was there like contact for it. So I was still trying to put myself out there in different ways. I guess that I felt like would be good for me. Well with your leadership experience, that would have made sense too. Was your sorority one that was super social? I wouldn't say it was the most social. It was definitely I would call it more of like a we were definitely more into like the kind of like philanthropy like sisterhood aspect. Like it wasn't like a big sorority on campus. Like it was definitely one of the more kind of I want to say like low key ones wasn't anything I guess what they call like talk to your right. Right. All those like sorority rankings. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was definitely more I guess the low key side. So then for sophomore year, did you move off campus? I did. I got an apartment with the one girl that I had roomed with my summer semester and then the one of the girls we met through our sororities. So it was like the three of us. I lived with them my sophomore and junior year and then our senior year we ended up moving into a townhouse and we brought in one of our other friends. Okay, so then we just did that for senior year, which was super nice. We were worried about bringing in a fourth because the three of us were so close. Yeah, it ended up working out perfect. So when during that time, were you did you make that decision to do the shift and really jump out of the like pop the bubble and jump out? Do you mean like socially or yeah, I feel like honestly like right when I got there because I had kind of given myself that pep talk leading up to going there. I wanted to be more out there. I did not want to just like I said, I

like honestly like right when I got there because I had kind of given myself that pep talk leading up to going there. I wanted to be more out there. I did not want to just like I said, I would go to school days and I would not even speak. I was kind of like I don't want to do that. I don't like that. It's not make me feel good. So I feel like going right into freshman summer. See, I kind of just jumped right at it like all my like my roommate. At the time was like, oh, like we're going out to do this. Like do you want to come and that's something I would never do. So, you know, I like why not like I'm here. I'm in college like I'm seven hours away from home. Like this is already scary enough. Like why not add a little more scary to it. So I feel like right from the get go and then definitely the first year or two, I kind of wasn't thinking about like, you know, like being quiet and like how I am really putting myself out there. And then I kind of started become a little bit more aware and I was like, okay, let's bring it back. Like I know this is FSU where like so many things are going on, but like you don't need to go be a part of everything. Right, right. I mean, how courageous of you though, because you talked yourself up. You hype, you were your own hype woman. I did. And you made that conscious decision at 18 before you started college. I'm going to change the trajectory of my life a little bit here. I'm going to challenge myself because especially if you if someone shy and they're not used to being social, being social is a skill that they need to practice repeatedly in order to find some comfort level with it. And you went right into I mean going to college is scary for everyone, let alone you're coming from, you know, such a

practice repeatedly in order to find some comfort level with it. And you went right into I mean going to college is scary for everyone, let alone you're coming from, you know, such a traumatic situation and then you self protected for years. So just to put yourself out there. Yeah, it's so courageous. I think back you were so young doing that. I know and I kind of think of it as almost it was kind of like a fake it till I make it almost. Yeah, I knew what being social was like. I know I'd seen it all my years in middle school, high school. I'm like, I know kind of what to do. It's just not doesn't feel natural. Doesn't feel comfortable, which I mean, it definitely didn't feel comfortable. Yeah, now I feel like to being 27. I'm at a point where like I'm more comfortable with it, like still in big group settings or if I don't know people, I'm definitely. Still more on the back burner. Like I kind of takes me a little bit to kind of ease into it, like ease into the conversation, like be a part of it. Definitely still more of a listener, but I definitely feel more I guess kind of like internal like okayness and happiness, like almost like a little bit of a sense of confidence in those situations now. Right. Like a social setting. We're settled with it. Yeah. And even if I'm not like the main person, the main character talking or even if I'm just like a side character, like I still feel like. Okay with it. Whereas like growing up, I was like, oh my goodness, like I'm contributing nothing to this conversation. I'm weird or like I'm awkward. Do you do you think it helped when you went to FSU that you kind of went without friends and you're went there on your own? Yes, I honestly I did think about it before I told myself I was like Kirsten.

went to FSU that you kind of went without friends and you're went there on your own? Yes, I honestly I did think about it before I told myself I was like Kirsten. Nobody really knows you at FSU like sure there are people from Boca high like going there, but nobody really knows you like because that was one thing. I guess like going into my senior year of high school. I was feeling a little bit more confident. I had my like little group of friends that like, you know, made me feel good, but I was still like everybody knows me here as like the shy girl. I can't go into a class and start automatically social there. I mean, like what is this girl doing? Right? What happens? So I kind of was like, this is the time to change. Yeah, no. Awesome. And especially for FSU because it can be Boca high 2.0. 100%. So it's such a rare opportunity you had there where at least for you it was going in like no one really knew you exactly. That's that's great. Now was there. You said that you had a point where you're like, okay, I need to rain it in a little bit. Did something happen? Was there a moment that made you go? Okay, this is getting a little crazy. Yeah, because I feel like kind of how I said like I leading up to this point. I had still never really like sought help like about like my mom's passing or like growing up kind of, you know, dealing with my struggles of being like super shy and quiet and alone. So I kind of again like when I went into FSU, I'm still so happy. You know did it went for it, but I kind of pushed to the back burner all the struggles that I did have. So then I feel like I ignored it for so long. Like I just you know doing things with friends going out tailgating like all those things that like such a

struggles that I did have. So then I feel like I ignored it for so long. Like I just you know doing things with friends going out tailgating like all those things that like such a big part of like FSU culture. Yeah, it distracted me from it. And then it got to a point where I was doing it like so much like I was just like either like going out like like exhausting my social battery. I had like none to begin with and then I was just like draining it and I got to a point where I became like super sad. Again, like kind of like reverted back like would not leave my room just kind of all hit me at once. So then I did end up like I did reach out to a few of my like good friends. I had made there and I was like, I'm not doing well. This is this is not good for me kind of things. So then I did start going to FSU's like I guess like the little therapy office they have there through the school, it was nice because that's another thing. I'm like I would think therapy so expensive. And then my friends were like we're one of my good friends this day. She actually reached out to FSU's I guess like therapy office. I don't know what I would call it, but she reached out to them for me and then they reached out to me. Wow. And then I started seeing a woman there. Did you know she was doing that that she was reaching out to them? I kind of had a feeling she never explicitly said it until I got a call and they were like, oh so and so reached out to us and it wasn't like I didn't take it in a bad way. I reached out to her after I was like, thank you because like I don't know if I would have found kind of the strength to do that myself. That's a friend. Oh no. So one of my like greatest friends. Yeah, that's a real friend.

thank you because like I don't know if I would have found kind of the strength to do that myself. That's a friend. Oh no. So one of my like greatest friends. Yeah, that's a real friend. And so then you started therapy and I started therapy probably I think I did it for about a year and a half. What grades was this at FSU? This was end of my sophomore year and then I think I did it until about midway through senior year. So for listeners, especially young women that may be in those college years struggling, you're a testament that it's okay to go to the therapy office on campus. It's so okay because I was kind of scared too. I didn't know if I was going to be seeing kind of like a grad student or like someone similar to my age. I didn't know who was going to be seeing because I'd never gone to therapy before. And was it an adult therapist? It was an adult therapist and she was super understanding. I felt comfortable. I mean the first session I was definitely very uncomfortable. I don't think I told her I guess to the extent of anything. I just kept it very surface level. I was like, I don't want this woman knowing my business. Yeah, I'm a little nervous. Like I don't feel comfortable telling her and then probably like my second or third. Like slowly opening up more and then I did. Yeah, about a year and a half. I think I saw her and then and he was towards my end of my senior year. I kind of just stopped because I was like, I'm gonna be leaving soon. Like I'm kind of feeling like I'm at a good place. Like if anything I can pick this up back and both. It had to have been life-changing. Oh my no, it's not changing. That year and a half had to have been you and probably unpacked. No, a lot. How much stuff? It had to have been so liberating.

It had to have been life-changing. Oh my no, it's not changing. That year and a half had to have been you and probably unpacked. No, a lot. How much stuff? It had to have been so liberating. It was because I mean, I had never been able at least like I would vent, to Ashland or I would sometimes vent to friends, but the friends never really knew what I was struggling with and I have a lot of them recently who have told me who have dealt with like similar things. They were like, I never understood like how impactful it was when you were going through it and now I understand what you were going through and it's there. Some of them have apologized for like, I'm sorry. I wasn't there for you more. Like I just didn't understand which is like valid. I mean, I know a lot of people don't get it at that age. No, no and and also. What advice would you give to friends or family of someone who's lost a parent? How they can approach that person because I know a lot of people are uncomfortable with that and don't know what to say. Don't know what to do and maybe you were so into yourself for those first few for a lot of years after but even now if somebody learned your mom passed like how can people what should people do? What can people say if they are at a loss on how to connect or be there for that person? I feel like it's still so tricky because I feel like at the time when my mom passed if someone asked, you know, what can I do for you? I'm like the type of person like no, it's fine. Like it's okay. Like I don't need anything. I feel like people shouldn't I guess believe like the surface level of like what they're saying. I'm trying to think I feel like obviously saying, you know, like I'm here for you. No matter what but then again, like if they're like me, I'm

surface level of like what they're saying. I'm trying to think I feel like obviously saying, you know, like I'm here for you. No matter what but then again, like if they're like me, I'm not going to reach out to someone. I'm going to be like, okay, I can take care of this myself. I guess even more so I wish I had people that kind of would bring me to like do things like invite me to kind of not be by myself all the time like invite me like the movies the beach like kind of like I don't not in a distracting way, but just kind of someone to bring me out of like my little, you know, like depression room that kind of thing to me to just do that little extra effort to be inclusive exactly and to plan something and be like, come on. We're doing this. Would you like to come and would like acts of service kind of like even if it's something as small as I made you some brownies. Yeah, you know, or I maybe it could be a random thing. I saw this candle, you know, make you feel like I guess less isolated and less alone whether you get acts of service and worth of affirmation. I feel like definitely feel nice. Yeah, just to keep that connection exactly to not let that person completely disassociate and isolate but just to keep that connection to the humanity. Exactly. You know, like you knowing other people are thinking about you and then trying to bring you in out. Maybe is yeah, just those little things and for some people that's probably easier than figuring out what to say because figuring out what to say, especially if it happens when you're young, you're surrounded by young peers. They're not going to know what to say. No, nobody knows. So no one knows but even just those small just something small like that's that's great advice.

surrounded by young peers. They're not going to know what to say. No, nobody knows. So no one knows but even just those small just something small like that's that's great advice. Honestly, that's really great advice. It's huge because I had a friend whose mom passed away when we were younger. No one dealt with it and it was I it still kind of haunts me to this day because nobody reached out like appropriately or as much as we could have no one knew what that person was going through. Yeah, it's hard because yeah, nobody around that age really has to deal with it. So it's like very valid that you know, my friends and my peers didn't know but I guess yeah, if I was to give any advice to people that age that have like a friend or family member going through that type of thing, just you know, let them know you're there make them feel included, not so isolated. And if you do see them isolating, definitely do something. Invite them out to do something coffee, lunch, like that kind of thing. Go to Whole Foods and buy a couple snacks and bring it over. You know, just something to keep them so they know they belong still so they don't completely disappear. Yeah, I do have a question. Prior to you talking to the counselors at FSU, your one friend who made the call, right? How how into it were you able to get with some of those friends that were close to you? It almost sounds like the counselor was the first person you really went kind of deep with. I have a couple friends, the two girls that I had lived with most of college, they knew that I would struggle with it. Like I would have some like days or some nights where it really affected me. But they again, like had never experienced something like that themselves. So they didn't really

Like I would have some like days or some nights where it really affected me. But they again, like had never experienced something like that themselves. So they didn't really know how to deal with it. It was kind of more so. They would be there for when I would be like very upset or very sad over it and just like super overwhelmed with it. And then I don't want to say it would go away or they would they didn't like just, you know, like brush over it. Like they were definitely there for me like in a very big way. But it was never something where I feel like they knew the full extent until when I was finally able to like talk to a therapist and I was able to open up about it more like they didn't know, I guess, how like alone in a way I felt. And how you were carrying it with you every day and it never went away. Right. That's probably what people also don't know is that it becomes your new normal and a part of your personality. And and until you had that moment where you went to therapy and really talked about it, it was that extra baggage you were always carrying up with you. So did unburdening some of that with your therapist also help you open up to the people around you about the loss of your mom? Like honestly, I feel like kind of being able to open up about it in like a professional setting with someone who, you know, knows the right questions to ask and knows how to make you feel comfortable. Like I feel like I wouldn't be able to share all of this now if I had never kind of deep dive with them because now I feel very comfortable talking about it. I'm if anything, I'm a little more open, I guess. Like now I don't feel kind of odd sharing it with people or feel like it's like a weird thing to share.

comfortable talking about it. I'm if anything, I'm a little more open, I guess. Like now I don't feel kind of odd sharing it with people or feel like it's like a weird thing to share. Like if people ask me like, oh, like what is your mom do? Like I don't feel uncomfortable expressing what happened. I was just thinking that how remarkable it must be or how remarkable it is that you're actually sharing this with us when it wasn't that long ago, right? What five, six, seven years maybe. Yeah, six years ago. I was like kind of a little weird about sharing it. But now I feel like I feel like if anything, this is what my mom would want me to do. She's like she was like the most comforting. The sweetest person ever. And I know she would. She would want this for me to feel like okay with it and not internalizing. Yeah, like making it drive me nuts. 100% speaking as a mother 100% but also it's a way for you to honor her because you probably talk about your mom more now than you ever have. Yes, because it's okay, right? And it's more definitely I guess like in a positive light than it used to be because it would be like I'd have to feel like I'd pride out of myself and it would be always be something that would just make me feel sad. But now it's something that makes me feel kind of more like light like it's kind of it's nice to talk about her because I feel like it's like the memory is still there. Do you ever get signs from her? I sometimes feel like I do like if I like think about something for a little bit and I'll like look for a sign like you know sometimes I know this is like such a common sign. I feel like people use but like a butterfly like one of my dad's my dad's college roommate's wife.

I'll like look for a sign like you know sometimes I know this is like such a common sign. I feel like people use but like a butterfly like one of my dad's my dad's college roommate's wife. She was really there for us when my mom had passed but we didn't really know her before it was kind of more so my dad was like this is your aunt like yeah gonna be there for you and she would come down often and she was here the other week and we were all laying by the pool and we were talking about my mom and then all the sudden the butterfly flew by. So like little things like that or I just kind of like if something works out for me or like if something good happens to me. I honestly am like thanks mom like I kind of like think it's like her doing. Yeah. Oh well I believe in it 100% that they're there and when you think about them or talk to them they're there. I 100% believe that I'm a big butterfly believer the Cardinals numbers Angel numbers like there's a lot of things but I I hear he's he's more of a skeptic. No, I believe I believe at 100% so what did you study at FSU? So I kind of went into college. I love still love fashion but I kind of realized I guess more post-grad it was like more of a passion than a career. So I did product development and merchandising kind of went to like FSU's little fashion school which still like I did learn a lot. It still was very fun because it was not so much just I guess fashion-based. It was also very business-based. So I it's almost like a business degree. I would say yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so then you graduate and did you move back down to Boca? I did as soon as I moved down. My dad had sold our childhood home. So I moved into an apartment with him. Yeah, he it was funny. He has his little group of friends and

I did as soon as I moved down. My dad had sold our childhood home. So I moved into an apartment with him. Yeah, he it was funny. He has his little group of friends and they're all divorced now. So they had like an open house. So it was all of them living together. We called it like the frat house. So he lived in this frat house for a few years. Then he moved back into the neighborhood. We lived in but just downsized homes. Wait wait wait. So he owned a big home with a bunch of other I assume your dad's Genex. Actually, he's a baby boomer. How old is he? He was born in 1961. So he was like right on the cusp I think but yeah, no, he's a boomer. Yeah. So so these boomer guys and maybe older Genexers, I don't know are all living together in this house and they're all divorced all divorced. It was his best friend whose son I grew up with. He had gotten divorced and my dad was like my dad just kind of once I graduated school and Ashlyn went up. He's like I want out of the house. Right. I want to sell it. His friend was like come live with us. Like come live with me. Oh my gosh. And they were just like it was just them too like mostly but they would have other like of their friends come and stay with them. Like it was a decent sized house. So that was there for like a year and then he was like, okay, like this is so you didn't live with them. So you got your own place. I got an apartment relatively close. But then he moved back into the neighborhood we grew up in but just downsized. Do you know why he went back to that neighborhood? I think it's almost a source of comfort. They my parents actually got married in that neighborhood. There's like a little park. They got married there. I mean growing up. We had all of our birthdays.

I think it's almost a source of comfort. They my parents actually got married in that neighborhood. There's like a little park. They got married there. I mean growing up. We had all of our birthdays. My mom's service was in that same part. Okay. And then like I said earlier like some of the neighbors that were really like great family friends. They're still in there. So I think it was kind of like a source of comfort. Yeah. Which Ashlyn and I were super excited about him moving back there because at the same time we do feel sad that you know, we don't live with him and he's by himself and we want because we can't be there as much as we would love to all the time. Right. So it's kind of nice to know he has a sense of community where he is. Absolutely. Absolutely. So what was your first job out of school? So I worked as an event coordinator at this one jewelry store was Kendra Scott. Yeah. So I was an event coordinator there for I think about almost two years. I think I quit a little while after COVID. Did you enjoy that? I did it was I guess I mean, I don't want to call it like a big girl job. It still really wasn't at that point. It was just kind of like I graduated and I need to like get a job right now. Yeah, but I met some like great girls working through there. Obviously, I liked fashion. So I love jewelry. I love the discount. Yeah, but it was nice for a little bit and it was fun because I was working on like the event side. They do a lot of like give back events and like just special events in the community. So I got to like meet a lot of like important like fun people got to do a lot of you know, kind of like self-fulfilling things that I knew were like good like giving back to the community. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

important like fun people got to do a lot of you know, kind of like self-fulfilling things that I knew were like good like giving back to the community. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was more so I guess just kind of like a good feeling type of job that kind of goes in line with leadership and then what you did in your sorority and then now now you applied it here. So it was probably good for was it good for networking as well. It was I definitely met a lot of people. People who you know, had their own charities have their own I guess like galas start a lot of startup businesses, which was good. So definitely did meet a lot of people through the community, which I do think about, you know from time to time the fun special things they would do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then where did you go from there? So then I kind of quit almost on a whim. So the one thing I hated about that job was I had like a very very awful manager and it kind of just I reached my wits end and I was kind of. I was like, I'm ready to stand up for myself and I'm ready for quit. So I sent in my two weeks had no idea what I wanted to do for a little while and then I had a friend who I was kind of like I still no idea what I wanted to do. I was like, I don't know if I want to go like a nine to five row. I don't know if I want to, you know, go get a master's. I had no idea what I wanted and she was like, oh, like if you want to come work with me at Hooters, it's good money. Like it's the easiest job ever and I was like, okay, like why not? Yeah, started there. I think I was there about two and a half maybe three years. It was one of those jobs where I was like, oh, I'll be here for four months and then right. So how would you describe to someone what it's like to work at

and a half maybe three years. It was one of those jobs where I was like, oh, I'll be here for four months and then right. So how would you describe to someone what it's like to work at Hooters because I mean there's a lot of assumptions. Oh for sure. Yeah. What's the reality? So I would say definitely like the assumptions that there are weird people that come in there like there are weird people. Yeah, but I would say more so the store I worked at being in Boca. It was more on the nicer side. Like I did deal with a lot of families. Okay, as opposed to like the one random guy who could come in by himself type of thing. Yeah, which I mean is definitely very different than I expected. I expected to be there for four months have to put up with a lot of random things and like just suck it up. Yeah, and then I went there and there was actually like normal families or normal people that would come in which I found like extremely shocking, right? But we were I guess like a franchise store and I guess when you compare franchise to corporate, corporate is very different. Oh, and you know in what way it's like the uniforms like we had just our normal white orange shorts tights like they were like it gave to wear like crop tops like they had a different type of shorts that were like they look like a diaper shorts. Oh my goodness. And I guess they would just get in general very different clientele as opposed like my manager was very much so gearing towards like families or like college students like he did not care for the old men who would come in by themselves like on a random Tuesday, right? Right, right wanted. He was very good about making sure we were all comfortable and he wanted to kind of gear the clientele towards nicer people.

a random Tuesday, right? Right, right wanted. He was very good about making sure we were all comfortable and he wanted to kind of gear the clientele towards nicer people. That's wonderful. Yeah, it's definitely different than I thought it would be. We've done some how many birthday parties have we done a few we've Nathan had one there when he was in eighth grade and Dylan I think had a couple you you were part of the one of those parties server. You are server. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, so I've always but I never thought of it that it's an because it's in Boca because of the way your manager ran it. We felt comfortable going there. Yeah, it was a family place. Yeah, it was a family place. And so I never once because I would have some friends be like or family be like Hooters and I'm like, it's not like that. That's what that's exactly what I would tell people when I would tell them I work there. They give me a look. I'm like, no, I swear like it's not what you're thinking. It's not it's not as I guess everyone assumes where it's kind of like, oh like a trashy year like weird kind of place to go or work at or very sexual exactly that you like. I mean, yeah, there would be people that would come in and I could immediately tell off the bat. I'm like these people are going to be a problem like they're going to say some weird things, but it was more so my mindset whenever I would go into work was kind of I'm in a costume. I'm playing a character like I'm here to make my money. I'm here to leave like I never mixed. I guess my personal life and working there like I kind of would just show up clock out go home. Yeah, that's great. Never got caught up in that. Did you ever run into where men made passes at you or like inappropriate inappropriately touched you?

would just show up clock out go home. Yeah, that's great. Never got caught up in that. Did you ever run into where men made passes at you or like inappropriate inappropriately touched you? No one's ever touched me. I know there were girls that would have someone try to inappropriately touch them, but then like a manager would get involved like immediately we would call the police if needed. There was a couple times. I think while I was there with the police had to be called just if someone was like rowdy or if someone was being like way like crossing lines being weird, but I would have like the men that would say kind of something inappropriate and I would just kind of like brush it off, but I would kind of say something back in a way that would just shut it down immediately. So they knew that I wasn't gonna yeah, entertain it. I guess yeah, yeah, yeah, because I mean everyone has their ways of making money there. Some people will entertain it and you know, they'd probably make more money. I'm kind of like I'm not entertaining this like I don't even care if you tip me $0. Right, right, right. I'm not gonna partake in this kind of banter back and forth. Like I don't know you like that. Yeah, you know what amazes me is the men that think they have a chance. Oh, yeah. No, that's the thing a lot of men that go in there because there's regulars there like there's a lot. Yeah, two sides them either. They're actually very nice people and like I tell they're not creeps like it's just a good spot for them and their friends to get together and then there's the regulars where they walk in the door and I'm like, oh my goodness. Like what a great start to my shift. Like this is gonna go bad. Yeah, and they genuinely think that you

then there's the regulars where they walk in the door and I'm like, oh my goodness. Like what a great start to my shift. Like this is gonna go bad. Yeah, and they genuinely think that you know, we like that that we want to be their friends that this is normal and I'm like as soon as I clock out if I saw you in public like I don't know you yeah, yeah, they would think that you know, this is the place where all their friends work and all these things and I'm like, I can't imagine. Why they would like how their brain works to think they have life. They have all the audacity. Exactly. They do. They're the same men that hit on girls that are 20 years younger than them at the gym. Oh, yeah, and it's just like why do you think you have a chance with this girl? No, honestly, I would have again like older men where like I was like very nice. Like I would like try and be very bubbly and I guess like some men would take it as a way of like me like oh my god, she's being so nice. Yeah, like she wants to go on a date with me. She wants me exactly. They would think that and then they would get to that point. They were like, what are you doing after this? I would love to see her drink and I'm like, where are you getting this like me being interested from but they would take just kindness for oh my god, she wants to marry me right now. Yeah, yeah, I honestly sometimes I think about if women only had half the delusion as middle-aged men, we could be even 10 times more successful in life. We really need to be more delusional like these guys because it's mind-blowing that they truly think that this girl is going to want me or I have a chance and I will never understand it. And delusional in what way? What do you mean?

it's mind-blowing that they truly think that this girl is going to want me or I have a chance and I will never understand it. And delusional in what way? What do you mean? What I just said that they think they look at a beautiful young girl and think I have a chance with her and when zero but are you saying that you can go in there and like Cougar mode to a young guy? No, no, I'm saying if that was no, no, I'm saying if we had delusional if we were as half as delusional as middle-aged men when they're looking at younger women, we could you know, do every dream we have just to be like half the empowerment of delusional. Yes, like that confidence. They have. Yes, that confidence. Yes, if we had that delusional, yes, throw a couple beers in maybe a couple cocktails and it's on right now round a Buffalo shrimp like they're ready. Buffalo shrimp at a Foster's. Oh my gosh. It really blows my mind and I'm sure you saw your fair share of that. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, like I said, I kind of tried to I mean, I was a nice person while I worked there. So a lot of people mistook it to them when some older men or even men my age would do it too, which I found also very strange. Yes, I would have to you know, divert that immediately. Like I would I would I had a boyfriend the entire time. I worked there even if I didn't I would write everybody. I had of course. I was a constant relationship for those three years like no matter what. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, did you ever encounter while working there women who would get really jealous or snippy with you? Yes, so I would make sure if I was ever serving a couple, I would always try and focus on the woman. It's like the last thing I want is this woman thinking I'm trying to steal her man, right?

Yes, so I would make sure if I was ever serving a couple, I would always try and focus on the woman. It's like the last thing I want is this woman thinking I'm trying to steal her man, right? Which is always a time where I'm like this man is you know, like I don't want this man, but they would always it's almost they would sometimes have that self of like delusion almost to like yes, we're in this restaurant and the waitress is going to flirt with my man and like she's going to steal him or something like that. Like there were always I think I encountered it a few times, but once I started focusing on the woman, I never really had a problem, but other girls I would work with like the women would be so rude like so caddy like so snippy because they would ask like their boyfriend or their husband a question. It's like we're like just forget about our outfits. Like we're servers. Yeah, yeah, yeah what we're doing here, but a lot of women. Would take it like very wrongly just and it's there they walked into the restaurant themselves. No one like no one is ready to go. Well, they're there. They have their own delusion because they think everyone wants their man. And it's like no one wants your man except you. I'm like you can keep your man like your guys are great together. Like I'm just clocked into work right now. Like that's all I'm trying to do. I'm just trying to serve you your food. Like let's not make it tricky. Yeah, exactly. Did you ever get hit on by women? I feel like there were a couple instances where like some women would come in and they were like always like super like fun like chatty like loud women and they were just like like anyone who walked by like if I would drop food off, they'd be like, oh my god, like you are gorgeous.

like always like super like fun like chatty like loud women and they were just like like anyone who walked by like if I would drop food off, they'd be like, oh my god, like you are gorgeous. Like well, like he was more like uplifting because I know they're not trying to be weird or right creepy like they would do it in the water. Maybe it's hard to know. It's so hard to know if I mean then there's the women that obviously like women, but then there's ones you don't know. Right. Yeah, like it's almost the women who like liked women would go about it in like such a more almost respectful way. Yeah, like the men like just for example, what was it? There's this one line that I would get so many times. It was like such an inappropriate line, but I would get it from like 15 year olds. They were like, oh, can I get a chicken breast like hold the chicken. God, they would do lines like that and it would come from high school or so. I would look at them and I would be like, where's your mother? Where did you learn that out of the repertoire guys? Yeah, insane, but you mean middle-aged men would say this as well. I feel like I did hear it from like one or two middle-aged men. I just would kind of look at them and walk away. It's like it's the delusion we were talking about. Absolutely. Absolutely. Do you have one? Do you have any story that's really bad? I'm trying to think so there is one. I guess I can tell this story. There was one regular he's been since banned, but I guess he was kind of one of those that would get like banned and unbanned all the time, but he would come in every Friday night and he would be coming. I think he had been going in since that store open. So early 2000s every Friday night. It's been there that long.

he would come in every Friday night and he would be coming. I think he had been going in since that store open. So early 2000s every Friday night. It's been there that long. I think it was it was in one location. I think for 10 years and then move to where it is now for 10 years. Yeah, same GM. So he had been coming in for I guess like 20 plus years every Friday night. He was definitely like very like socially awkward, but like my manager would use that as an excuse for him to be able to still be coming in but like he would walk in the door and we would all like run until the hostess do not do not citizens like not do not do not and there was a point where he would park. So when we would have to come into work, we'd have to park in a certain location. Yeah, just so it's like safer than like having to part like in front of the restaurant and seeing people seeing what cars we drive. He would park where we were parking. No, and when we would all walk to our cars, he would be sitting that's predatory behavior. Awful and mind manager be like, oh, he's not a threat. He's not a threat, but we would hear all these stories about things. He would do things. He would say and once you started kind of like I almost want to say like again, like how I said I was like a very nice person like I could definitely tell he was a little odd like probably had some like problems like something like that. So at first I was like kind of like very surface level. I was like I would just kind of smile take his order leave but then other girls started kind of getting a little more like I want to say snippy but like kind of like like stop accepting like like more profession like just kept it dry kept it like a dry almost with a kind of like a sense of

getting a little more like I want to say snippy but like kind of like like stop accepting like like more profession like just kept it dry kept it like a dry almost with a kind of like a sense of like being like kind of like back off in a way. Yeah, you can't like setting some boundaries exactly and like he would take it the wrong way. So then he would say like, oh, I don't want to sit with that girl. So then it became like a smaller amount of girls. He would oh my god. Oh my gosh, and I think it finally got to a point where he like did something like inappropriate. I think in like the bathroom or something and then my manager is like, okay, like you're done, but it was like more so a sense like he would get banned and unbanned and banned and unbanned like constantly and that happened with like a lot of regulars there. They would get banned for like a month and then they and then they were allowed back. And then yeah, how is that even a thing to get banned from a restaurant or a barn? You've got to try I feel like and I'm like some effort in yeah, I'm like obviously your band like they would be like shocked. Well, would would he get banned from saying things? It was just I think they did more of a banning thing with like you can't come in but it would be more so like like there was one guy who got banned a few months before I quit and then the last month I was there. He started coming in. So I think it's more so like they kind of forget or stop carrying that your band scenario. But why were they banned like are they is it because they're saying inappropriate things or they touching there was never that I encountered any touching while I was there. It was more so saying inappropriate things. Okay, like there's the one

saying inappropriate things or they touching there was never that I encountered any touching while I was there. It was more so saying inappropriate things. Okay, like there's the one guy that I just mentioned that would get banned and then like a month before I came or a month before I quit. He was like back. He said something like an argument with one of the girls like the girls said something. He said something like smart back like clever, but like a creep. Yeah, exactly. Probably he's a creep and they know like very very the fact that he was parking where you guys Park. So weird that's crazy. Point where like we we would tell like hey, yeah, he's parking where we're parking like we see him sitting in his car. There was one time where like a girl dropped her keys in the parking lot and he got out of his car to help her. But luckily like we had really good kitchen staff and they all like ran the guy like they ran at him. They're like, what are you doing? Like so then after that, you know, they started, you know, watching us walk to our cars and he like wasn't allowed to park there. I think like the week he got banned. I saw his car there. That's crazy. So were the men that worked at Hooters naturally protective of you guys? I think so. They were like, I mean, I feel like any restaurant like the kitchen staff is always going to be like a little flirty like especially working at Hooters. But when it came down to it, if there was any problem going on in a restaurant, like the managers were like pretty good at it too. But like the kitchen staff was always like running from the kitchen. Like they were they were out there to protect us. That's awesome. Very nice. That's awesome. Are you still friends with anybody that you worked with

like running from the kitchen. Like they were they were out there to protect us. That's awesome. Very nice. That's awesome. Are you still friends with anybody that you worked with there? I am. I mean, I like I said how I kind of like would go to work clock in the clock out kind of thing. Like I never had like a like a group there like a friendship group. But like I was always like very nice. Like I would have good conversation with all the girls I work there. Like I don't have like I never had any problems with anyone. So like if I like see them like out about or like I see them posting on Instagram, I'm always like commenting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I definitely like it's like a very good group of girls that work there, which I was scared walking in. I'm like, oh my god, like working on a Hooters. These girls are going to mean or they're going to be like they're they're just going to be miserable. But no, everyone was so nice and supportive of each other. That's great to hear. I was I was shocked, but they're all so kind. Yeah, because you'd wonder does it get catty? Does it get competitive? But the fact that you support each other, that's awesome. At least yeah, like my experience like personally like everyone there was like so kind to me, which was so nice. Well, I think about you know, the shy girl. Would you ever have thought she'd be working at Hooters? No way. That's why I feel like from like what I was like growing up to now. It's definitely like a 180 like yeah, the Hooters thing. That was very out of left field for me. Yeah, I feel like I still had that like little itch to like do things that were like very very out of my comfort zone. Yeah. Okay, so you worked at Hooters for three and a half years.

Yeah, I feel like I still had that like little itch to like do things that were like very very out of my comfort zone. Yeah. Okay, so you worked at Hooters for three and a half years. I think about I think about three, maybe a little longer. Okay. Did you ever were you ever in one of their calendars? It was I was in their calendar twice. Wow. I think the first year the first year I was there in the second year. Okay. Did you ever have anyone ask you for an autograph? Yeah, so we would have calendar signing events. Oh, wow. People would come bring their calendars and we would sign them and there was I think both years we had to like I think it was like FAU Homecoming or something like we would go walk on the field with sashes. It was interesting. It was very interesting. Like we had a sash that would say like Calendar Girl, but we would have signing events like at the store like Calendar Girl signing. They would give us like Sharpies that said like Hooters Calendar Girl and we would walk around and sign our pictures. So what was the average age of the people the men that would bring their calendars? It was it was normally older men. Really? Yeah, I was hoping you weren't going to say I was hoping it was like 13 year olds. I mean there was like the people like there was like times when like a father would be there with his son and you'd be like I'm going to buy my son a calendar and like we would sign it for the son like his son was too scared to ask for one. Like the dad would be like the one to be like give us a calendar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but um, yeah, I would say for the signing events like mostly older, but then you know, we have to sell them like especially for in them. They're like you have to sell.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but um, yeah, I would say for the signing events like mostly older, but then you know, we have to sell them like especially for in them. They're like you have to sell. Yeah, so like we would have to go up to every customer like women men like everyone and be like, oh do you want a calendar which like I would always feel weird doing something like if I was sitting in a restaurant, I wouldn't want someone coming up to me to sell me a calendar like right by one in one. I would ask kind of thing, right? But um, yeah, I would say for the signing events. It was sadly like older man. And yeah, that's I was hoping you were going to say 15 year old. Yeah, I wish and then you guys got to go to like you said FAU homecoming events and so were you kind of like a little celebrity in Boca with you? Did you feel that way as a Hooters girl or no? No, I feel like I I mean sometimes I'll think about it. I'm like, yeah, like that is like I guess what you would call like a face your restaurant. But I feel like it was at the time. I was working there. Like I didn't feel anything like crazy like the calendar thing like I was just in like the Florida like they had like a Florida pullout thing. So I was just on that. So it wasn't like international or anything. So it was like kind of like on a smaller scale, but I never felt like anything crazy was coming from now. Did anything lead from that? Did it lead to any additional modeling gigs or so I'm the job. I'm at now. I do is it's like I would call it. I guess like event staff and modeling. So it's like bartending brand ambassador modeling serving. They found me I think through Hooters in a way like I think they had found a couple girls that like it was again social media.

So it's like bartending brand ambassador modeling serving. They found me I think through Hooters in a way like I think they had found a couple girls that like it was again social media. They like reached out to me through they had probably seen that I had worked there and they reached out to me and then I started working that job and that's still the job. I'm currently working. So I would say that job definitely came from it. So you left Hooters to go do this job full-time because I probably about two years. I did both jobs, but it was kind of getting to the point where I was working like six days a week. Like okay, I was working way too much and then I think in December I decided to stick with the one event job as opposed to Hooters just because I feel like more can kind of come of it. It's like nice that it's something different all the time. So what do you do? Like how do you describe what this is? So I guess again, like I would call it I guess event staff. Like if you're having an event like a gala, we do a lot of like charity events. I'm doing one this weekend like a big one in Miami. We work hard rock Formula One Beach Club. So like a lot of cool events, but then again, like it's always something different. Like I bartended like a kid's birthday party in Jupiter and like the parents like love it. I've done modeling for different restaurants in Boca for their like Instagram and Fort Lauderdale. I'm trying to think like brand ambassadors like I've worked a lot of trade shows. I worked over the weekend some Fort Lauderdale has some like Supercar Saturday. Like I was like trade show model for that. So it's always always something to see you're traveling. It's pretty much anywhere from I would say Jupiter, but now I guess Stewart.

Supercar Saturday. Like I was like trade show model for that. So it's always always something to see you're traveling. It's pretty much anywhere from I would say Jupiter, but now I guess Stewart. So I was in Stewart for like a an event twice. I think two weeks ago. It's anywhere technically from Stewart to Miami, but they do do across the US and International now to like back in November. I was unable to go just because of timing, but I was offered to go to Qatar or Formula One. Wow, I had to pass on it, which I still am so sad about but a few months before I got to go to Texas for like one of their endurance races at Circuit of America like the big track they have there in Austin. Like we have girls that are getting flown out by some one of the girls for stagecoach and like Coachella like I'm already booked for Formula One in May like it's it's like fun things which like is exciting. It's no it's so cool. I mean and the fact that you could end up traveling doing this even further internationally or domestically. I mean the opportunities. It's it's amazing and the people that you meet. I'm sure it's a wide variety of people, right? It's definitely a wide variety. I've never had really a bad experience with anyone. I've met like client wise and kind of the same thoughts that I had going into Hooters. I was like, oh my goodness. Like all these girls are models. All these girls are gorgeous like I'm going to feel like an outcaster. I'm going to feel like they're not going to be nice girls. But when I had my interview to start there the company is run by like a woman and her mother and they said straight up to They're like we do not hire like mean girls. We do not hire girls that we think would cause issues like anything like that.

by like a woman and her mother and they said straight up to They're like we do not hire like mean girls. We do not hire girls that we think would cause issues like anything like that. Of course, I was like, okay, like I feel like everybody says that but everyone I work with is like the sweetest I get along with everyone. That's amazing again, like a big comforting thing after my first few shifts. I was like, wow, okay, like this this could work out women supporting women exactly. And it's funny. We have like men to like little like barbacks or like men bartenders male models like and everyone supportive everyone is so nice, which is like so great. Have you met any celebrities? Are you allowed to tell us? I mean, I've definitely worked some events in Miami that are like like Art Basel. So I've definitely seen a lot down there. And then when I worked Formula One my first year, it was actually a brand trip whose tables I had so I saw a lot of tik-tokers and Instagrammers, which is super cool. Cause I was like I had been with the company for like two months. So I didn't expect to be like in charge of a whole brand table. And yeah, yeah huge thing and there was like every I noticed or recognize everybody else. Like oh my goodness, like a little nervous here. Yeah, yeah. I'm out of my league. Yeah. Have you found that your social media presence has grown since taking this position? I think honestly once I started Hooters because my manager back at Hooters was very into the social media like for his for the Hooters page. So like he would have us doing a lot of videos. So I started getting like a following. I want to see a following like it's not that many but like I can write followers from that and then this job as well.

us doing a lot of videos. So I started getting like a following. I want to see a following like it's not that many but like I can write followers from that and then this job as well. I did gain like some following from people just because you know, they'll post on their social media and then like part of the thing is like we post when we work because I mean we work in such cool places like it's like oh my god, how can I not post about this? Yeah. Yeah. So then definitely from that I feel like you gain a sense of a following I guess. Yeah. Yeah for sure. So again, you're using what you learned in leadership to what you learned in your sorority to what you learned with the event sales Kendra Scott, the event planning and even Hooters like dealing with people talking you're still using even a degree. Well and and it's tying in with your degree. It's all tied in together to to this job circle. It's full circle and it all ties into your evolution with being shy to now be more outgoing. It's really amazing. No, it's because yeah, like high school middle school me like if I told them what I had been doing like now like or just in the past year or two, they'd be like, oh my god, like yeah, what do you mean? Like how does that happen? She'd be very proud of you. So and very excited, you know, knowing it's all going to be okay. Exactly. You know, so so do you get a lot of like DM like at Hooters? You were dealing with men face to face. Do you get a lot of inappropriate DMS? I do from time to time. I would not recently. I feel like since like but Hooters like a lot of them had stopped but I would get DMS like there was one time where a man like photoshopped himself like on an Instagram photo of mine with me like very very weird.

lot of them had stopped but I would get DMS like there was one time where a man like photoshopped himself like on an Instagram photo of mine with me like very very weird. I have a scroll to show you a screenshot later, but it was just like I opened it. I was like, what is this like? So on like you would send odd things but I like I never answer them. Like I don't think I if I don't know you like I'm not answering. Yeah, even people I know because again like kind of doing that like evolution, I guess from like how I was in like high school middle school and even like the first few years of college to now like I'll have people kind of like almost like circle back and they'll send me a message. I'm like we never spoke like years ago. Why do you feel the confidence to send me this message now? Like we're like I know what's going on. Yeah, like that kind of thing. Some people have all the audacity and they don't think you're going to catch on. It's like I know what you're doing exactly like now that I you know, I'm not super shy and like yeah, it's not coming from a place. It's a great you're not super shy. So are you more confident than now? Yes, I would say so like like I don't think high school me would have had the confidence to do like the job. I'm doing now. I don't think I have the confidence to like come on here and share all these things about me and even just like confidence about like I guess like just even as something as simple as like how I dress like in middle school. I would go and like a sweatpants and a big teacher every day like would not put effort into like my hair my makeup which like you don't like necessarily need to do but like it makes you know, like it makes me feel like pretty sometimes and now it's like I feel the

like would not put effort into like my hair my makeup which like you don't like necessarily need to do but like it makes you know, like it makes me feel like pretty sometimes and now it's like I feel the confidence to kind of like look at my best and put my best foot out there. Yeah, you don't mind. So now you don't mind being seen or as maybe before. Yes. Yeah, I feel like that's a good way to put it. You're not making yourself small anymore. No longer invisible. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, more comfortable kind of I guess. Yeah being seen. Yeah, you're not dimming your light. So in all of this journey that you've been on have you had any relationships dated anyone? Yes, so I did I would say it have two one definitely more serious than the other relationships. But um both were just like big big learning lessons. I would say what did you why what did you learn from them? So one of them I knew from high school, but we again, I was very quiet very invisible like we did not interact but I knew of him in high school and we dated pretty much immediately after I got back from FSU. We had met jumped right into it. We dated I think almost two years broke up very like abruptly like it was not my doing it was his doing got together like two months later. Did like it hit the family. It was like disastrous. I was not okay for a while and then flash forward three years. I got back together with him. I was like, oh he's changed. Yeah, this is gonna be great was not great in what you know, sense whatsoever. So it's kind of I guess like a learning in that relationship kind of like they really really don't change. No, no, it's it's never it never works going back again. It doesn't and a lot of times they they can sense when you're starting to move on also and that's when

really really don't change. No, no, it's it's never it never works going back again. It doesn't and a lot of times they they can sense when you're starting to move on also and that's when they suddenly appear it's like a superpower. They have I don't know what it is and they put their best face forward and then then the veil is lifted in and they're the same person. No, that's what I think too is kind of like like you said like a veil is lifted like in the beginning. They have this mask on like to get you back to that point. You're kind of like really deep in it and then they're like, oop. Yeah, just kidding. What was the main issue would you say? I would say almost I don't want to say I would say communication was a big one, but I feel like also what he didn't want a relationship almost at certain points. Like I felt like I was kind of a like a bother almost like it was like kind of like he wanted to live his life and if it was ever something like to do with me that like didn't work for him. It was like the end of the world like all my fault like that kind of thing. He was he never prioritized you know more of a convenience. Yes, I would say more convenience. Usually guys like that are narcissists. Yeah, like I feel like he was definitely like narcissist and then I would say he had that like I guess avoidant attachment style which made me have a very anxious one. Yep, and it was kind of like I thought like I was not so I was like is my the problem like am I the reason? For all of this and it wasn't until being removed from the relationship probably a couple months like probably back in like November December. I finally kind of saw the light and I was like like I had been out of the relationship for like maybe three or four

like probably back in like November December. I finally kind of saw the light and I was like like I had been out of the relationship for like maybe three or four months at this point like thinking like oh, I'm like such an issue like I like made him break with me. Yeah, he were probably ghastly. Oh, yeah, and then I kind of like looked back to it and I was like wait a minute. I was just asking for the bare minimum and it was kind of again, this is like embarrassing on my end when he was breaking up with me. I was kind of making it like you don't even have like he lived kind of like an hour away. I was like, oh you don't even have to like come up and see me if you're busy like I'll ask for less like that's embarrassing on my part. I think about that now and I cringe. I'm like, you're so what are you doing? Like right right disgusting, but it was kind of like I just thought there was like no world without that man. Yeah, so I was like willing to literally settle for below below bare minimum. Yeah, but I think women have to go through those relationships to learn what they will and will not tolerate and you have to learn that before you get married. Oh for sure because so many women don't and then they marry that guy and then you bring children into that. It's a whole thing. It's a whole issue. So it's good. I always tell Hi, I'm my daughter that these are stepping stones leading you to who you're supposed to be with and you need to learn from each one right because it's leading you in the right direction and I think recognizing when you're being gaslit for women is huge. Yeah, huge definitely in the moments. I had no idea that I was being gaslit. I was kind of like it was almost like I thought that's how a relationship was supposed to be.

Yeah, huge definitely in the moments. I had no idea that I was being gaslit. I was kind of like it was almost like I thought that's how a relationship was supposed to be. I thought it was normal. I thought it would be a phase, but then I'm like we're on a like combined like of all the times we've like been together and like broke it up like combined like four years of being together at this point. I feel like yeah, and I'm like nothing nothing has changed but still in me. I'm like he could be better. He like once we figure this out or once, you know, and they know it's settled and they know they're not going to change and they know that you'll do anything to keep you they know I like they play it. Is that the pattern this I'm asking more for you that that the avoidant leads to anxiety which leads to maybe doubling down your effort to have them not be avoidant. Is that the sort of the cycle? So the avoidant typically triggers an anxious attachment or if you're anxious or if you're prone to maybe being having anxious attachment, they will definitely trigger it even stronger. Okay, but then what happens is with the anxious attachment, they're trying harder with the person which then makes the avoidant more avoidant. Yes. So the more the anxious attachment person tries the more avoidant person pulls away. So it's this horrible cycle and the anxious attachment person is just keeps trying and trying and trying and giving away more and more and more of themselves. Well, and what's cool for you what made me ask and think about it is we have this whole dialogue going on with some of our previous guests and listeners where women are kind of learning that as Gen X later and now they're walking away and they're done. It's good.

whole dialogue going on with some of our previous guests and listeners where women are kind of learning that as Gen X later and now they're walking away and they're done. It's good. You've got it now at your age. You'd avoid it. You know, your generation there. They're 10 million times further along than we were. Yeah, first of all, a lot of this information wasn't available to us. The internet wasn't available to us. So it was a lot easier to gaslight us because we were like, I don't know, you know, but it you guys are on it. Yeah. Yeah. The secret's out and and guys are being held accountable, but and correct me if I'm wrong. I are the guys in your generation more prone to want a situation ship than a relationship. I feel like in my experience, I would say yes because I feel like a lot of people my age, it's just more convenient for them than to because I feel like it's more so like kind of how we talked about earlier like in the past like people around my age, like it's time to like get married have kids like settle down like now. I feel like a lot more people are pushing that off. So they're kind of looking for more of those no strings attached like super casual and I feel like a lot of people like I think it's just more more common. Is that a is that a male and female thing like a girls your age is also saying I really want to be attached. I'd rather keep it kind of casual or is that you think that's more the guys I would say honestly more guys because I feel like with me. I'm kind of like how I said earlier, like I'm not in a rush. Like I'm kind of more of like if it happens it happens, but like I'm not gonna like actively seek it if it finds me then it finds me kind of thing. But I feel like a lot of guys are out there like with my

happens it happens, but like I'm not gonna like actively seek it if it finds me then it finds me kind of thing. But I feel like a lot of guys are out there like with my experiences like that. I hear from my friends because like I have friends that are like actively trying to find their husband. They're like out there looking and they'll like find a guy and then they'll be let on for months and then turns out he doesn't want anything serious type of thing. Yeah, like a lot of the girlfriends that I have. I feel like if they're dating they're dating for a purpose. If they're not dating there like how I said if it finds them it finds them if it doesn't you know, they're fine with it. So what advice like what I try to understand is how for the women in your generation. Why are they putting up with that for so long? Like why are they not? Do they not have their demand say and I say demand that sounds aggressive. Do they not have their standards set yet and they're in the process of figuring it out and with each time the guy doesn't follow through then they then they raise their standards more because I feel like a lot of times they're giving guys too much leeway instead of being like now. This is a red flag or this isn't this crosses it or this is not I deserve more. I want more right. You you're not going to meet me like even by the second day. They're like no, I feel like these guys are getting so many chances and why do you why do you think that is so I definitely gave that one ex-boyfriend like multiple chances after like you should not have gotten them like I'm talking like chances after like being unfaithful like being disrespectful like the whole nine yards and I'm trying to like put myself back in that headspace of like why I did that.

talking like chances after like being unfaithful like being disrespectful like the whole nine yards and I'm trying to like put myself back in that headspace of like why I did that. Yeah, think about it a lot. I'll be sitting and I'm like Kirsten. I cannot believe you put up with this. I cannot believe you excuse this because it got to the point where it would almost like I don't know if I was just so deep in it and I was like, this is what I meant to be doing like I meant to like marry this person like I would put up with so much and then I would almost let him again like back to the gas lighting. Yeah, my fault. Yeah, like it would be my fault. He did this like it would be my fault. He cheated. It would be my fault. Like it was almost like my fault. I caught him like in a yeah, yeah, and so then it just again like I was at such a low point with all this stuff that like I would just like take it. I'm like, yeah, like I guess it was my fault. Yeah, I guess like this is on me like I had such a low. I don't want to say self-esteem because it wasn't self-esteem. It was just like a low or just like a bad perspective on love and a bad perspective on how a relationship should be and it got to the point where like Ashlyn or like some of my friends would be like Kirsten. This isn't normal and then I would kind of be like, all right. Well, I'm not going to tell my sister or my friends anything he does because they're just going to tell me Kirsten. This isn't normal right in my head like because I still held this guy on such like a high standard and like a pedestal. So I didn't want my friends or my family to hate him. Yeah, they spoke negatively. I'm like, no, but like I would again like shift blame on me

like a high standard and like a pedestal. So I didn't want my friends or my family to hate him. Yeah, they spoke negatively. I'm like, no, but like I would again like shift blame on me when I really shouldn't have I'm like, oh, well, no, like I did this like I got upset. He was out until four in the morning and they're like, that's a valid like what do you mean? Yes. Yes. Yes, that kind of thing. Yeah, and trust me women my age did that too and I've done that. So that's the thing women do you get so far into it and it's almost like an addiction to the potential right you're waiting for that. I've been in it so long. I can't give up now like I can almost see he's going to change I'm in too deep. Yeah, I'm in too deep and it's going to happen. But I almost wonder if situations situationship culture did not exist for us. So either you were dating or you weren't yeah, and dating wasn't as big of a the word dating. Didn't hold as much weight as I feel like for the younger generations when they say they're dating. It's like almost like engaged like they view it like hold on. Yeah, we can't say we're dating yet. Whereas we would just be like, okay, we're dating now after like a couple weeks and then if you break up you break up but there wasn't a situation ship like if you're with someone you're with you're with them and I almost wonder if I think this is a situation ship culture has hurt the women in your generation definitely and it's allowed these men to kind of get whatever they want. It blows me away. No, he's like I'm in the wrong generation. No, blows me away. No, but it's definitely true because there are so many situation, situationships like situations that I've like seen or like been a part of where it's like, it's like I

No, blows me away. No, but it's definitely true because there are so many situation, situationships like situations that I've like seen or like been a part of where it's like, it's like I think they like that like no strings attached thing. Yes, and like you said they get away with it with no consequences because they were never officially dating. So it's like I can do whatever I want. There's no label, no labels like that. I think they get like a sense of comfort and like power from yes, the word labels that wasn't a thing. It was just we never even thought about it like that and we were just like oh, it's at my boyfriend my girlfriend where I think the younger Gen Z put such weight on this label and it's like but I think and some young women might get mad at me, but I think it's it's on the women to change it because yeah, because the guys will keep taking advantage of it. I agree and it's almost like and and and young women may not date for a while until women stop. It's a it's a it won't change exactly if that makes sense kind of like I said how I like I think back about how I acted in that relationship. I'm like, oh my god, like it like what like stand up here soon. Like what are you doing? So now I feel like I'm at that point where I'm like, that's not something I would accept again. And so that kind of I guess would break the cycle with me that kind of behavior because now I'm like no matter how deep I am in a relationship now. I'm like, I'm not going to accept the disrespect that I used to. Yes, I feel like if you know, which like sucks that you have to go through it to get to that point. Yeah, you know, it made me like a stronger person in that time. 100% and again, you learned it young. I mean, there are women that

have to go through it to get to that point. Yeah, you know, it made me like a stronger person in that time. 100% and again, you learned it young. I mean, there are women that hold on for 10-15 years and they give away their baby ears and I and I know people have also written in about me saying that but I'm sorry if you have children you have to be conscious during your baby years of who you're with. Yeah, like what you have to like, you know, I don't want to say put up with but in a way put up with like what you're willing to have your kid go through with you as well. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a great way to think about it. I hadn't thought about it that way. Whatever you're signing up for if you have children, you're in it together. Yeah. Yeah, that's and and and young women do need to think about what kind of father is this person going to be and I know it sounds like uncomfortable and everything especially when dating is such a heavy label, but as dating for purpose, you hit a point where and like you said it could be any time. It doesn't mean like next year, but still also valuing your time and energy and who you're giving it to and not everyone should have not everyone deserves access to you. Right and it's kind of like if you're in the position like man or woman where you don't want a relationship and maybe you want like a situation ship or just like whatever like it's kind of important to be open. Yes, both sides about that. Like if you're both in agreement, like this is a situation ship beautiful. It's great lovely, but like if someone's not on the same page and that's like, yes dangerous territory and it's up to young women to voice what they want. Yeah and not it's you know, it's say I'm I'm not comfortable

not on the same page and that's like, yes dangerous territory and it's up to young women to voice what they want. Yeah and not it's you know, it's say I'm I'm not comfortable with the situation ship. So if that's what this is, let's not I can't do this, you know, and so but it's it's hard and that's why I feel like too like with women having to vocalize like they're not okay with the situation ship. I feel like women will start, you know, seeing a guy and it will be months down the road and they're just waiting for the like let's be exclusive or like let's be boyfriend and girlfriend. They're just waiting and then it gets the point where it's like a year later and they're like, oh, I never wanted something serious. So what's the time then? It sounds like there needs to be a time frame like women need to be like, okay by two months or three months thinking two to three months like but they need to do that for themselves. And after two to three months, it's almost like saying, okay, I want to label exactly like no label no mean like I'm out. Yes. Oh, I like that. No label. No me. There you go. I like that. No, but it's true. I think there should be a movement. Yeah, let's announce it now. Well, the movement starts right here right now two to three months girls and then you need no label. No me. That's it. That's it. Where were you? I don't even know what I was going to say. I don't know if I should even tell the whole situation ship is fascinating to me. That's a new generational thing. I think I don't know. It's been going on at least for 10 years now. Yeah, I would say right. Yeah, I feel like college. I would hear about it more. I don't know about high school. Yeah, I don't know towards the beginning of my college years

least for 10 years now. Yeah, I would say right. Yeah, I feel like college. I would hear about it more. I don't know about high school. Yeah, I don't know towards the beginning of my college years where the first heard situation. Yeah. Yeah. I mean for us we miss that you miss it. I wouldn't have been a good one with that. There's no way I would have been like a month. No label. No me. Well, here's here's the thought I had was one of the things you talked about is how your generation communicates more openly with one another as compared to say our generation and so I mean is that even a is that a thing or is that something you're starting to learn now where you kind of do have to you're saying two to three months, but do you communicate that I don't know if you do it right off the rip, right? It's like maybe it's like two three weeks in or how do you know there's some mechanism. There's an event that happens where you maybe start to communicate. It's probably awkward to bring it up right off the door. I think like on the dating app. It's not like by by the 90th day. We're having this, you know, you're on board on your calendar. I expire at 90 days. Yeah. There you go. It expiration date. Pink. I know I'm like the dating apps now. They have like most of them have like a section that says like looking for short-term looking for long-term looking for like life partners. So I mean, I guess they made it like a but again like who's going to put like looking for short-term dating app? Like I feel like that's just like automatically like everyone's going to be like, oh, he's all the guys are going to say whatever they think the girls want to hear exactly. So it's like because I agree. I haven't been put in that position in a while where it's

all the guys are going to say whatever they think the girls want to hear exactly. So it's like because I agree. I haven't been put in that position in a while where it's like it's time to have the conversation. Yeah, so I don't really know. Like in my head. I'm like if I'm dating someone for like two like two to three months, like we said, I feel like I would at least bring up like an exclusivity thing. Yes, because I know when you first started. You're dating people like you're going to you know, like date around. It's not like you go on a date with like the first person you match with on hinge and you're like, this is my man. Right. This is my husband. I'm not even going to give anyone a second look like, you know, it's like normal for you to you know, go on a couple first dates and send me to seconds. I'll meet the thirds, but I feel like if I'm like seeing someone consecutively for like two to three months and I feel like I'm at that point where I'm like, I am only seeing this man. Like I've filtered through the rest like this is this is my then I would kind of bring up at least exclusivity hoping it would lead to a conversation about maybe, you know, putting a label on it like that kind of thing. And I would assume if it was that guy and he had that potential that you see him that way. He would want to say I want you exclusive. Like I don't want you. Yeah, I don't want you out there. So I mean, I would I would love it if men actually had this conversation before the women had to have this conversation. It feels like our back in our day was 30 days, right? By a couple weeks or so, you're kind of exclusive or so, but by 30 by day 30, it was like yeah, starting to pick up. Yeah, do you feel like you guys like in since it was like a

By a couple weeks or so, you're kind of exclusive or so, but by 30 by day 30, it was like yeah, starting to pick up. Yeah, do you feel like you guys like in since it was like a smaller time frame that I'm saying now you would see each other more often in those 30 days like or it was just kind of like no, you know, we had we had we had less access because we didn't have technology or social media. So we might see each other maybe before after school maybe in passing and then on the weekends would go on dates like actual date, right go get food, you know, or go to a movie or go to a party. Right. Like that was very common usually in a field somewhere, but I feel like it almost feels like it but it could be me but I feel like we maybe jumped into it as in our generation kind of got into it a little bit. If you found a person you like and they liked you you had that great attraction and infatuation type of thing and you went into it, you know, what I think it is, you know, it's on and everybody else is kind of doing the same thing. What it is. There was no there might be something better out there. So I'm going to put this person here, but I want to keep open for other options and I think that's social media and I think that's technology because you like that person. There was not a hesitation online shopping. There was no shopping apps and it was like I like this guy. I'm going to date him and if it doesn't work out, we'll break up in three months and then maybe I'll date somebody else. But there was I was not I had no access other than the guys in my high school. I had no other access options. You think about it keeping up with the Jones's was for your parents, but now with social media and the prescriptive,

no access other than the guys in my high school. I had no other access options. You think about it keeping up with the Jones's was for your parents, but now with social media and the prescriptive, you know, Instagram posts and people traveling all over the world and you feel like you're missing out. We didn't have that. There was no there was no comparison. Now. Yeah, I think social media definitely. Yeah, ruined the like classic dating and like that, you know, meeting someone out like now it's like you send them an Instagram DM. You mean him on hinge. I think more people meet people on online dating than like in real life now probably will go out to like a bar and they're like scared to yeah, like I'm just going to go swipe on hinge later. Like I'm not going to go talk to someone and that serves men more than women because men have access to look at women online and kind of like pick and choose. Yeah, it's like a variety almost like I don't want to say degrading because I've definitely been on like the dating apps before but I feel like in some senses like I feel like a little odd being on them because I'm like all these people are looking at me right now like not in a sense where I'm like, oh, I don't want to be seen but I'm like all these people are looking at me judging like whether they're like I want to match with this girl. Oh, no, like I don't like no, it's it's the anxious. It's giving people access to to women. It's giving men access to women and they haven't earned it. Men should earn acts. Everyone should your friends to everyone should earn access but men certainly should earn access to women. But these dating apps and social media have given access to women freely to men. I think that's part of it.

to everyone should earn access but men certainly should earn access to women. But these dating apps and social media have given access to women freely to men. I think that's part of it. It's a little scary because I was it I think like a month ago. I had downloaded hinge. I think I had it for maybe 48 hours. I was like I this is this is too much like I don't like this and I talked to a lot of women have the same thing. They're like, yep downloaded it for two hours and I was like nope, like no doing this. I don't think it really serves women. It's more of a man. It serves more more. It's more for men. Exactly. You know, it's unfortunate but I do feel a turn. I feel like more and more of your generation once old-school organic meetups. I would hope so. I mean, that's what I want to do like yeah organic like I don't want to because I did when I downloaded hinge for those like 48 hours. I think I went on two dates from there and first of all, like I struggle with my height being six foot like I never like I want to feel small and these both of these men had said they were 6 4 I get there. I'm I level with them. So they didn't lie about an inch. They let about four inches. Whoa, that's so common like I could say I've heard everyone always tells me they're like if they say, you know, they're six foot there 511. Yeah, I'm like 6 4 like it could be 6 2. They could be 6 3 but 6 6 even I level with me. I was like what like they got I didn't work. You asked without heels right? Yeah, I'm like I wore my like zero platform shoes, but like I just and then like those two dates like I immediately like got like different vibes in person than I did online and I was kind of like a little tricky. It's like multiple personalities exactly. I was like online.

two dates like I immediately like got like different vibes in person than I did online and I was kind of like a little tricky. It's like multiple personalities exactly. I was like online. You seem so nice so bubbly and now I'm here and you're giving me the same vibe as like an FSU frat boy like immaturity level like this isn't what I was thinking it was going to be. Yeah, yeah, and I almost wonder if girls your age are going to start looking more for men in the early 30s. You know, I think I was heading there. I think I'm heading in that direction. Yeah, because I like seeing or I was speaking with Ashlyn and her boyfriend and her and her boyfriend have been together three years like they make me believe in love like they are like the perfect couple like and when I was dating my ex she was dating her boyfriend Josh and like I would in my head compare like I would see Ashlyn say something to Josh and then I would say something to my boyfriend and he would like freak out at me, but then Ashlyn's boyfriend was like I'm like like yeah, like so well. I'm like like I would always like compare it but then I see like how great their relationship is. I'm like, I know there's something out there. Then like I see how happy they are. Yeah, but they had the conversation with me a few days ago. They were like Kirsten like I think you need to look for like like early to mid 30s. Yeah, you might be right. I think I think by then a lot of men have have evolved have matured and are ready for a relationship, you know, and not everybody I know I'm generalizing but I think in general a lot of women do better with a man that's a few years older just because everything kind of meets. Yes, you know at that when you meet your person, I always

generalizing but I think in general a lot of women do better with a man that's a few years older just because everything kind of meets. Yes, you know at that when you meet your person, I always tell my daughter you're not supposed to feel confused. And if you feel confused, it's not right, right? You're not you don't have any of those feelings. It should fit like a puzzle piece, right? And it should not be hard and you should have no doubt that he's so down and he's so into you. Yes, that's it. I see a lot of that online girls will be like, oh you don't want to come on too strong and you it's almost like they're saying that girls should almost I don't want to fake who they are but put on like a persona like that. They aren't who they really are just to get past like the first few dates and then show who you are like I'm like, I want to be authentic right from the start. 100% like you don't want to say that because you're going to seem crazy. I'm like you could say that and not be crazy if that's like the right person for you that like understands and embraces that. Yeah, that's that means that's not the right person. You're trying to figure you're gracing them with your presence. That should be the attitude. It shouldn't be I need to adjust myself for him. He's lucky. I'm here. I'm giving him access to me. I'm going to be my authentic self. And if that doesn't work, he's not the right one for me. I'm not trying to be the right one for him. Right and that mindset needs to change is that with the slight less aggression. How you describe that. Yeah, so I'm coming from a mama bear. Yeah, but that that's the shift that young women need to make is if he does if I am not if I'm too much for him or if this isn't working for him. He's not working.

Yeah, but that that's the shift that young women need to make is if he does if I am not if I'm too much for him or if this isn't working for him. He's not working. This isn't right for me exactly because it's way is wasting your time. And you don't want to put on a fake persona your whole life of being something you're not only live once exactly. You need to be who you are. Yeah, you don't want to tone yourself down just because you're too much for me. Also, if you change yourself, what if that is your guy, but you're not being yourself. You made me miss him exactly. So then you think you're being away. You think you're supposed to be and then off your guy goes and he was your guy, but you weren't yourself, right? You were acting like someone else. So you have to you have to believe in yourself enough to be yourself and then whoever is your person is lucky. They found you and you're lucky that you found them, but it's real because marriage and life is hard enough. You don't you have to be real right from the start. So I hope I hope I hope that that authenticity really takes over in the dating world. I hope that there's a swinging of the pendulum the other way because you guys don't even get that first impression, right? And it's seen them on social media. You see their photos that you already know. There's no like I don't know anything about this person like you you do your research. Yeah, it's kind of hard not to sometimes. Yeah, there's really. Yeah, there's really no like I want to call them blind dates, but I would almost call them blind dates now. Like if I went on a date with someone like I know their name. I know what they look like. So it's not really blind, but I don't know anything about them.

call them blind dates now. Like if I went on a date with someone like I know their name. I know what they look like. So it's not really blind, but I don't know anything about them. Like yeah, I don't think people experience that these days. Like yeah, no, not knowing anything and you almost wonder would they be comfortable with that? Just with that weird them out like because then you have a safety issue. It's hard out there. No, there's like two different extremes. It's like you want to like kind of go on a date with someone you don't know just because you know, you don't want to make any presumptions. You don't want to go into it like having already like thoughts like you want to go in a clean slate and you also don't want to go on a date with like a serial killer. Yes. You don't know what you're walking into. Yes. No, it's tough. It's almost like you need your girls just to go to the restaurant at the same time. No, actually. And if it's that type of situation just because now I think there's guys that don't have social media because they are sick of it, but then the girls are like, oh my god, he doesn't have social media. I can't go out with him. He's like, no, it's a tough situation for young men too. I was thinking you have to use mentioned earlier. Girls are going to drive the change and I think you know, you drive the demands, but the guys have to grow the fuck up to at the same time. Absolutely. There's this meeting in the middle. I think men have young men have gotten a little spoiled here. I think they've gotten a little extra access that isn't necessarily deserved. They've gotten away with too much. It's time to rain it in girls. I do think it'll come back because you can't inauthentic living is hard.

access that isn't necessarily deserved. They've gotten away with too much. It's time to rain it in girls. I do think it'll come back because you can't inauthentic living is hard. It's it's too time-consuming and ain't draining and it's just exhausting. So who doesn't want to be around real people and say they're real be yourself. They're match. Yeah, you want to be able to be yourself now since your mom's past since she passed did your relationship with your father strengthen during those years? Is he someone that you could talk to about like relationships with guys or any of this stuff? So once my mom passed so I guess I should preface with growing up like my mom was to stay at home mom and my dad worked. He had like a car dealership out in Okeechobee. So it was kind of like we would wake up. He'd be gone. Sometimes he'd be home for dinner. We were not very close growing up like or yeah, the car dealership was not physical car dealership was very far. So he was you know gone a lot. You know, we see him on weekends family vacations, whatever, but we were always very much closer with our mom. We did everything with our mom. Obviously we like loved our dad, but we didn't have like the best relationship with him. And so we kind of felt like once our mom died, it was kind of like he was like, oh my god, like I have two daughters now like by myself like both going into critical times in their life and like I said earlier how we never, you know, got to like talk about it with a professional or even with him like he brushed it under the rug a lot, which like I think he kind of regrets doing now more so but in his mind, he was kind of like I have to like in his mind be like the best dad, but like in his mind being the

like I think he kind of regrets doing now more so but in his mind, he was kind of like I have to like in his mind be like the best dad, but like in his mind being the best dad was kind of being like a yes, sir, like not yes, sir. Like a yes, yes daughters. I guess like whatever you want kind of which like we definitely took advantage of which like I mean, I appreciate like he was trying to give us everything in the world, but emotionally he lacked like a lot on that. Like this is acts of love. Exactly. Was giving you guys whatever you wanted. And so like we, you know, grew up with that like mindset like oh like like we were very fortunate with what he would give us, but like we would always tell him like like emotionally like we did not have a good relationship with him like at all like we were it was like Ashland against him. And so we that like also like added to like a lot of like issues growing up and like kind of like I don't want to say trauma, but it was like traumatizing at certain points. Like they were just no one got along and so it was like a very hostile household like he had his own demons because he's same way like he didn't deal with my mom's passing like he did not take it well at all. And it just I think I did not have a good relationship with him until I got out of college and we both live separately. He lived in those little frat house. I lived in my apartment. Now we have like a super good relationship like I do what I can for him like he's getting older. He has like his health problems. I take him as doctors appointments like Ashland. I are like very good with him now. Like yes, he has his moments where we're kind of like okay, like you need alone time for a little bit like we're going to leave by growing up did

I are like very good with him now. Like yes, he has his moments where we're kind of like okay, like you need alone time for a little bit like we're going to leave by growing up did not have a good relationship. And I guess like now like circling back to what you said, like do you feel like comfortable like talking to him about like relationships or anything like not so much like we again, I don't have to say this in like a nice way because again, love love my dad, but like sometimes I feel like that like father-daughter relationship is not there and sometimes I feel like we're more like like family members like not that specific relationship like sometimes I feel like if anything I'll parent him like that kind of thing. So it's it's a little tricky. Yeah, definitely improved like drastically though. Did you guys ever have a moment post you going to therapy and everything where you did discuss your mom's passing or that time have you had that moment? No, like there's a lot like I mean we'll talk about our mom like we have like a Memorial tree for her in our old neighborhood like every like Mother's Day or birthday or like your anniversary of her passing like we'll go bring flowers like you know, we're able to talk about her in a way where like nobody gets like upset or emotional but like I still have not been able to have conversations with him about like, you know, like why did we not tell Ash and I what we're going on or like why did we not like seek help like that kind of thing like if anything I feel like we just got super isolated with him like there was a time where like yes, we had like other women in our life that would like, you know step in but again they have their own lives, right? So just be the three of us

him like there was a time where like yes, we had like other women in our life that would like, you know step in but again they have their own lives, right? So just be the three of us and like it was like if we get pretty intense from time to time but now I feel like even I said something the other day like growing up. I were talking about this earlier. I had a fear in me instilled by him about like the highway like I did not drive the highway until a week ago. Really? I drove on it. I learned this earlier. Yeah, I drove on the highway. I think once when I had a driving instructor and then the other time was on accident like the road on Palmetto was closed in the only way was to get on the highway almost cried. But then I started driving on it a week ago, but this fear was instilled with me from him and Ashley made a comment the other day because before I just decided, you know what? Like I'm just going to do it. I was going to go see a behavioral therapist to try and like talk me out of this irrational fear. I was having that was like specializing in fears that were like instilled in you by your parents. So Ashley made a comment to him the other day. She was like, oh, Kirsten's going to go see a behavioral therapist to like unlearn that fear that you know, like instilled her from she was like 10 and I think that kind of like made him like think a little bit about like the repercussions of like, I mean, I know like that's not like a big thing, but no, no, it is I guess it is just kind of like as the concept of like how things that were we dealt with as kids still affect us to this day. Yeah, even Ashland said she was like it looked like a light went on his head like oh my god, like my daughter's having

of like how things that were we dealt with as kids still affect us to this day. Yeah, even Ashland said she was like it looked like a light went on his head like oh my god, like my daughter's having to go to therapy because I instilled this silly feel like fear in her. Yeah, but I feel like if anything like thinking about it, I'm assuming he kind of started to think about it a little more like how everything that we went through as kids were still dealing with right from his actions. Does he know you went to therapy at FSU? He does. Yes. Okay. So you guys still have a lot to unpack with him. Yeah, and it's like I don't know if we'll I mean, I hope we'll get to that point where we can but I feel like it's like very tricky. What's what do you think? So I'll do you back from just saying hitting it head-on be like a dad make it back make a you guys all cry together or something, you know, it breaks the ice type of thing. Is there anything holding you back from that? I don't know. I feel like because I still don't really know like where his head was at with everything because there was like a lot of like there was a lot of moving parts. I feel like that we still don't know the full extent of but we would hear bits and pieces from like family members about how he was dealing with it. And then obviously what we would see was not good coping from him which like was not good not fun for Ashlyn. I go through and I feel like bringing that up like it's a little scary because I don't want to relive that like those moments, but then also it's like again, like we have such a better relationship now and I feel like as I've grown up. I become more like empathetic and like more kind of like seeing other people side. So like at the time, I'm

a better relationship now and I feel like as I've grown up. I become more like empathetic and like more kind of like seeing other people side. So like at the time, I'm like, oh my god, like my dad is dealing with this so awful like he's an awful person like blah blah blah, but now I'm like, oh my goodness, like my dad literally went from you know, like he was not like a stay-at-home dad. Like he was a worker like he worked hard to all of a sudden being in charge of like two girls like right at crucial ages having no idea what to do, right? So like I empathize with him with that now because I'm it's tricky. It's hard. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It may get to the point where you find closure on your own. That's what I think like we're at a really good place now. I'm kind of like I almost like part of me is like I don't want to un-dig it and he seems like kind of like he seems he's better now. He's good now. Yeah, I don't know if I want to hash all that out again, but I feel like there will be a day at some some point in my life where we do talk about it. It's just I've never found the time to bring it up and I feel like if I have in a slight way, it's always kind of once again like brushed under the rug, right? I think two things come to mind and I'm not looking to rock the apple cart here for you guys, but number one, you're the child. So I think you're as a parent. I'd say this as a parent if my kids ever wanted to know anything for me, go ahead and ask. Yeah, and I think you hold on to that right as the child to ask him whatever you want. Mm-hmm. Again, I'm not looking out the you know, rock the apple cart here, but then at the same time, I wonder too though how you experienced it when you were younger and people didn't necessarily ask you.

you know, rock the apple cart here, but then at the same time, I wonder too though how you experienced it when you were younger and people didn't necessarily ask you. I wonder if you went there and got past the first surface, you know, rejection, right? You got into it a little bit if he would open up and now the floodgates are open and you guys are all kind of talking through just just food for thought. I don't know. I've never I just like thought about it that way because yeah, like how we mentioned earlier how like nobody would really like asked me. I'm like, I don't know if many people would ask like have asked him. I guess like he was yeah, kind of the frontier of that movement of like we're just brushing this under the rug. Like this is that like yeah, whatever. So maybe that is like a good perspective. I would have done it. I would have totally brushed it under the rug. I probably haven't even considered my dad died fairly abruptly very short-term illness that was quick 90 days right 120 days. Nice, you know, she got to bury that shit. He's an avoidant. But what's interesting is what you were expressing is empathy for your dad earlier that you found that empathy now that you can you're older and all that maybe maybe a bridge to it whenever if you ever feel the need would be coming from a place of empathy. And you know, I can't imagine how it was for you pretty much what you just said coming from the space and this time that how to have been just and then that could be an opener right to see you know, send the olive branch the olive branch. But as far as for what you need again, I think you could probably find a lot of that within yourself as your maturing growing and reflecting. Exactly, you know, and

But as far as for what you need again, I think you could probably find a lot of that within yourself as your maturing growing and reflecting. Exactly, you know, and that's the most important thing is because some so many things because I've had my own things with my with my dad and before he passed and even with my mom who lives with us some things you get to a point where you're like, what am I looking for and can they can what they say or what they do resolve it or do I need to resolve it with them myself? And then when I realized I need to resolve this with them myself because it really doesn't matter what they say or do, you know, there's really nothing they can say or do right because it's like certain things that you'll like be looking for like, what do I need like joining answers from them or myself? It's like it's so like at least for me, it's so far in the past. I'm like I already like done with like it's forgotten. They're not forgotten, but like it's like not affecting me. Well, you feel you feel a lot on your own through the therapy and through that. So you kind of took control of your own healing journey. So, you know, I have a feeling with you guys. It's going to naturally present itself. It could be five, ten years from now, but by that point, you know, whenever it does, I feel like you're going to be so okay with what however the conversation goes because you have will have resolved so much within yourself that you're coming from a place that has so much healing. Right. If that makes sense. No, yeah, because I know more healing. There was a point where it was just like when things were not that great. It was just all like anger towards him and I feel like I don't really feel like sure

There was a point where it was just like when things were not that great. It was just all like anger towards him and I feel like I don't really feel like sure like if I think about it long enough, like I'll probably get upset about something, but like just that a quick thought. It's just more so like yeah, that all sucks that Ashley and I had to go through all this like post my mom passing away and like having to deal with like how my dad like handled things and it's not like we didn't have anyone to kind of like protect us or stand up for us. Like that was my mom and now we don't have her. So it's kind of like how I'm on the front line here like against my dad like me being like 13. Yeah, and it was yeah bad for a while then I moved away and then when I came back again had a rocky moments, but like I would say within the past actually like probably two years like it's been like the best it's been probably in my entire life on this earth. Yeah, cool. And so much of that could be coming from your own healing journey. You know, because did you find you were a people pleaser? During these years. Oh, yeah before your mom passed or did it really kick in after I would say even before my mom passed because I feel like in a way my mom was kind of a people pleaser too. She did not like I mean again, like I was so young like it's sad, but like my memories of her like are kind of diminishing right, but I know she was like very well liked by people like she's sweetheart. I feel like she could be a people pleaser when I think back to like certain things like I'm definitely like I am my mom like I am exactly like her like carbon copy like looks attitude everything. But I feel like she was a people pleaser and I kind of took that in myself and

definitely like I am my mom like I am exactly like her like carbon copy like looks attitude everything. But I feel like she was a people pleaser and I kind of took that in myself and then honestly though after she passed I feel like I took it on even more because I kind of I was sensing I feel like that approval like I would get that approval from my mom and then things were not great with my dad. So I wasn't getting that like approval like, you know, good job Kirsten from him. So it was like I was getting it wherever I could get it. Like I was wanting people to like me. I was wanting to seem like, you know, a good person which like I was but like I was you know, wanted to have validation. Yeah, I wanted the validation that like I was you were missing that parental approval. Yeah, you were getting it from outside sources by now has have you adjusted that are you as much of a people pleaser anymore? I would say not so much anymore. Cuz I feel like I used to be like an extreme like it was like bad. Yes, like I still do like approval from people now, but I feel like I'm much more confident in setting boundaries like if there's something I don't want to do I'm gonna say no, like I'm not doing that excellent and not so much as I want to be feel like this person like likes me or I want to feel like a good person and I feel like also like on top of that. I would kind of overextend myself like I would back when I was working my two jobs like I would always say yes to like oh, can you pick up the shift? Can you do this? Can you do that? And I would like spread myself so thin that I was like, oh my god, like I feel like I'm about to have a mental breakdown. Yeah, and so I was like, okay, like going into this year. I was like, I need to do more

myself so thin that I was like, oh my god, like I feel like I'm about to have a mental breakdown. Yeah, and so I was like, okay, like going into this year. I was like, I need to do more things that are like going to be good for me. So that started with setting boundaries and kind of focusing more on what's good for me and not so much. What's that person gonna like or what's gonna make that person approve me like yeah, no, so yeah, but setting boundaries is self-care. Mm-hmm. You were reclaiming your energy. Exactly. So it can happen at any age. There you go. Any age. Any age. This is your year reclaiming your energy because you were giving it all away. All away. And you were depleted. Exactly. Yeah. What's driving that for you though? I mean, it's awesome. What's driving? Is there a big change or? I honestly, I feel like quitting Hooters was like big for me because that was taking a lot of my time and I mean every year like when it's a new year, everyone comes up with resolutions and they never do them. Yeah, and I was kind of like, okay, like I want to actually kind of focus in like I want to grow this year because I feel like the past few years. I've just been going through the motions. I've been going to work doing all this. I was like, I've made a big change in my life before kind of like that big shift of you know, not being so like shy client reserved like who I am now. I was like I can make more changes. I can do some other big change big shift for the better. So I was like, okay, like boundaries doing more things for myself like I'm planning on doing like hopefully a big career I'm trying to either go back to school or jump into like the corporate 9 to 5 like I'm waiting to hear back from school, but if I don't get in I'm

hopefully a big career I'm trying to either go back to school or jump into like the corporate 9 to 5 like I'm waiting to hear back from school, but if I don't get in I'm just not going to let that kill my spirit and I'm just going to keep going. Yeah, so so what what where did you apply? Do you want to share where you are? So I'm hopefully going back to school to do diagnostic sonography. So like ultrasound. Oh cool. I want to do vascular ultrasound. So like heart. I don't want to do like babies and all that. I wanted to something different but the only thing is the programs I applied to they're very very very selective. It's like they accept 10 people a year. Wow. And so I knew going into that that there's a chance I don't get in and if I don't it's not the end of the world. Right. I'll just find something new. Yeah. Yeah. Trust it in the path. Exactly. Because I feel like the job I do work now is something I could do on the weekends if I wanted to but I want more structure because I feel like more structure will lead to kind of like a happier balanced life than me working like a Monday Friday Saturday Sunday like very random and then I think it's like a Tuesday like yeah, I kind of want that structure some predictability. Yes. So when will you find out how she find out in two two to three weeks? It was the but again like I'm I mean it's not going to be the end of the world. No and if for some reason if hope I'm not even want to put this out there, but if it doesn't go the way you want to I don't think it means you should not continue chasing that exactly you know, so myself because it is kind of like a little unfortunate. They only do like one admission cycle a year. Yeah, like if anything next

continue chasing that exactly you know, so myself because it is kind of like a little unfortunate. They only do like one admission cycle a year. Yeah, like if anything next year if I'm like haven't found something I truly want to do then that's that but I've kind of also like started separating I guess work from passions or like things I enjoy so I'm like if I end up working in something that I'm not super passionate about like I have my passions that I like on the side that aren't work. So they don't feel like work if that makes sense. Yeah, it doesn't. It's really interesting you said that because I know that for a lot of Gen Z's I think they start out wanting to do what they love and it's a requirement and both. I'm only going to do this if I love it or if I'm passionate about it and then sometimes it's better and it's more balanced if work is work and your passions are separate from that. Exactly. No, I'm a lot of times work if you're successful at work, it gives you the funds to go more after your passions. Yes, exactly. Yeah to not have them tied together. I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend chasing your passions for work because to that point you it's hard to separate like I love to garden. I wouldn't want a job that's related to gardening or else I wouldn't do it at home. It kind of changes it. Yeah, like you can love what you do but loving what you do and having your dreams and passions that's a little more balanced if that makes sense. I see people that go into a career in their passion and years later, they're like, I'm not even passionate about this anymore. I hate it. It's just I wake up in the morning. I dread it. So I'm kind of like being learning from like seeing it around that, you know, kind of keep keep it separate.

this anymore. I hate it. It's just I wake up in the morning. I dread it. So I'm kind of like being learning from like seeing it around that, you know, kind of keep keep it separate. So that's why I'm like if I don't get into this program and I do ultimately have to find a job, that's not necessarily like my cup of tea or what I'd see myself in then I'm like, okay with it. If it's you know, yeah, is it both? Yeah, interesting the plan and the path and everything that there's so much so much of this is faith, you know, and what what it's supposed to be for you. So before I ask my final question, I always check with him because I don't look at him and he's like I had another question. I'm curious what got you over the hump to get on the highway and drive. Oh, okay. So I it was one of my goals this year like New Year's resolutions. I was like because for my one job driving from like anywhere from Stewart to Miami true back roads. It could be a two-hour back road drive, but a 50-minute highway drive and I had to go to Stewart for a job. This was probably two weeks ago and I took my back roads there two hours and then the next morning I had to be in Palm Beach at 7 a.m. for a golf tournament. So I was like I want to get home early just so I can get some sleep because I'm gonna have to you know, wake up early to take my back roads and I was got in my car. I went typed in the address to home and it said two hours no highway and then this time it said like it was like 45 or 50 highway. I was like, oh my goodness. So I called my sister Ashlyn. I was like Ashlyn like I think I'm gonna do it and she's been like my biggest supporter with this. She's like Pearson. Yes, like she was like the perfect time. It's like 10 o'clock on

I was like Ashlyn like I think I'm gonna do it and she's been like my biggest supporter with this. She's like Pearson. Yes, like she was like the perfect time. It's like 10 o'clock on like a Wednesday night. Like nobody's gonna be out like just get on the road. Yeah, so she talks me through the merge as soon as I get on and I'm like in a safe lane. She's like, okay, like I'm gonna hang up now like listen to music like she's like put on some powerful songs like something and get you in like a good like yeah, like you're gonna take it on and doing it. So I did that and then I took it the next morning to Palm Beach. Nice awesome. And now I'm I haven't done like a rush hour thing yet, but I'm working in Miami on Saturday and I'm trying to hype myself up to maybe yeah try that or Ashlyn will drive. I do have one other question too. That's amazing. You should be so proud of yourself. No, it's also huge stuff for me huge. Actually, I have two questions. One is just and I'll ask them both one. What do you have another New Year's resolution that you have in mind and then the second question is I think when Ashlyn was on with the with you know, I am Vanessa. She had mentioned that there was a period where you guys weren't as close you weren't enemies or anything right, but you weren't as close but now you're like super close. Yes, so I'm curious more about that. If you're willing to yeah, so I think starting with the Ashlyn one the time when we were not super closed was the first I think few years after my mom had died kind of how I said earlier that I kind of just instead of immediately jumping in and being closer with Ashlyn taking on that like kind of role of I don't want to say like the motherly role, but like kind of

that I kind of just instead of immediately jumping in and being closer with Ashlyn taking on that like kind of role of I don't want to say like the motherly role, but like kind of like looking after her more like I was just so by myself like then that like there was Ashlyn like we were all kind of like in our own little I want to say bubbles. So we weren't super close like and it was also like our age like the age we were at like I was going to high school. She was middle school. I was just kind of like in my own thing and then there was Ashlyn and then like I said earlier Ashlyn was like very much more social had a lot more friends. So like she was always kind of doing that. So we weren't super closed. I think it was like obviously we would kind of like band together when like we needed to like, you know, like against like my dad or like when we like were kind of like that was your common bond. Exactly. Like that was the common bond like we both like supported ourselves like each other through that type of thing, but I don't think we got super close until I want to say probably I was in maybe my senior year of college because then she had started freshman year. So we were at the same school. I don't same situation at Boca High. I was a senior when she was a freshman, but I don't think we were very close. It was funny because you're talking about this the other day we're trying to like I feel like a lot of my childhood like I blocked out. So Ashlyn brought that up. She was like, you know, like we weren't that close like in our like my high school years. I was like, what do you mean? Like it's in my head Ashlyn. I have been like best friends forever. Like yeah, like how we are now and then she kind of started talking about it.

I was like, what do you mean? Like it's in my head Ashlyn. I have been like best friends forever. Like yeah, like how we are now and then she kind of started talking about it. I was like, oh my god, you're right. Like we really were not that close like Intel probably I was like a senior in college and you were a freshman and you had gone through therapy too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then I mean immediately after Ashlyn was done with FSU we moved in together and we've been living with each other ever since and it's awesome. You probably were just separable disassociated a lot. Oh for sure. During those years where she wasn't she was younger and it's sad. It's like I'll think about it. I'm like, oh my god, like it's me sad to think that I was not like there for her like you were surviving. Yeah, you were you were trying to get a girl. You were treading water. Yeah, you were in fight or flight. You were a drama. Yeah, I mean you did it and you made it and you were in leadership even during that crazy time who would have thought so yeah, I mean no the fact that you did life during that time. That's all you needed to do right on it that that young girl just needed to do life and get to then FSU and then look at everything you did for you and that's the main thing and it's still all worked out beautifully because you guys do have this beautiful friendship in addition to your sisterhood. So it's cool. And what was your other question? Do you have another New Year's resolution or is I mean, she's named a lot already. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of goals already moves this year big. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So my last question is always where do you see yourself in five years? I hope. I hope that I'm in like deep enough into some sort of career

moves this year big. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So my last question is always where do you see yourself in five years? I hope. I hope that I'm in like deep enough into some sort of career whatever I end up in whether it's being you know, like a medical whether it's working a nine-to-five somewhere like I hope I'm like in a career that again like nothing doesn't have to be a passion but something that I at least feel like happy about and not like miserable at I guess like I want to be at a good point career wise where I'm you know, like able to enjoy life like I can still you know, like travel and do all these things and not feel like I'm suffocating living like a paycheck to paycheck type of job. Let's see five years. I would be 32. I if I am not married and I don't have kids by 32, I won't feel super discouraged. So I'm not super concerned about that. I would hope to at least own an apartment or a house. I would love a house, but I don't know about this. Yeah, this area is crazy. Area like I I've always said I've never moved from Boca just because I love it here so much. So like I probably have to weigh some options when it comes to if I was able to buy a house. Yeah, moving a little expensive here. So crazy. Yeah, but but you don't know where you'll be. I don't know where I'll be. So, you know, I think those are great goals. Those are wonderful goals. So yeah, and I have no doubt you're going to accomplish them because you really look back at everything you've accomplished under such stressful circumstances and what would have really stopped a lot of people in their tracks you fought through and and did what you needed to do and you have such self-awareness and you just have have you searched for healing

really stopped a lot of people in their tracks you fought through and and did what you needed to do and you have such self-awareness and you just have have you searched for healing for yourself and that's an amazing thing at your age to already have accomplished that and to not have buried it or fallen into destructive coping mechanisms for years and years and years. So you just should be so proud of yourself to be a 27 and you have accomplished what you have just for yourself even and your mom would be beyond proud of you. I'm going to say that I'm going to say that for her because it's amazing what you've done. Honestly, so and I again, I have no doubt you're going to accomplish what you set your mind to not just this year, but your five-year goal for sure. So and I'm sure you would agree with you. Yeah, I totally you're doing awesome. Really happy for you proud of you. I agree your your mom would feel the same way. 100% and and I know your dad is proud of you. Yeah, you know, he's a boomer. So he may not say it. He's worse than me. Yeah, they're worse than these guys like they're not known for much of sharing anything. So anything you get from him is probably a big deal. But thank you so much for honoring us with your story and sharing everything and I know we have listeners that some of what you said will resonate with them and I have no doubt you will have especially some young women hope who maybe are in a dark place especially during those college years. There's a lot of and your 20s your 20s are not easy. People don't realize it's not supposed to be easy. No one has it figured out. No, no, it's not. It's not supposed to be easy. It's a roller coaster and there's things that are supposed to

People don't realize it's not supposed to be easy. No one has it figured out. No, no, it's not. It's not supposed to be easy. It's a roller coaster and there's things that are supposed to happen to your during your 20s to help you really figure out your life. So and you're doing it beautifully. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Our pleasure our pleasure and we can't wait to have you back in the future and see where you're at. Yes, love to come back and check in. Definitely. There you go. So thank you to our listeners as well as always if you have any comments or questions, please leave them. We love to read everything and again, thank you Kirsten for being our guest today and we'll see you next time. Bye.