Episode 37 - Cheating and Your Partner Having Friends of the Opposite Sex

[Music] Welcome to GenX Adulting and today we are going to discuss cheating, boundaries in a marriage or relationship when it comes to the opposite sex. And maybe touch on adult friendships in general. Cool. So, I would like to put it out there that in our 33 years together, 33 years together, we've been, this September will be 31 married, dating 32. So 32 years together. Neither one of us have cheated on each other. Brian's smiling. Do you have a secret? Not. We have not cheated on each other. So, we do not have experience with that ourselves in our marriage. We both did cheat in relationships before we got married. We were very young, of course, in high school, college. So that'd be teenager and really early 20s. I know I did. And I think you did. I plead the fifth. Yeah, you don't. We both had experience with that, but we were young. And I think that happens a lot when you're young. There's no excuse for it. I don't, you know, and I definitely tried to raise our kids to know that it's not okay, but I think it's definitely not okay. Once you get married. And if you're in a long-term relationship, for sure. I mean, I was going to qualify if you're in like a partnership or marriage or, you know, something more than just a fling or a high school or college kind of situation. Yeah, that kind of thing. But because I think cheating does happen when you're young. It's a lack of maturity. Your frontal lobe hasn't closed. You don't have as much impulse control. You don't always make the best decisions. Usually there's alcohol involved. Yeah. So, but once you make that commitment, I mean, I know I told you before we were even married, if you cheat, that's it. I'm the type that if you cheat, there's no forgiveness.

Yeah. So, but once you make that commitment, I mean, I know I told you before we were even married, if you cheat, that's it. I'm the type that if you cheat, there's no forgiveness. We're done because I can't trust again. Once that trust is gone, trust is so important to me. And once that trust is gone, you can't get that back. And so that for me at the age of 22, I knew that that would be a game changer for me. Did you actually tell me that? Because I don't recall that because it wasn't an issue, but was that a hard rule at the time or something? It was not that it's not a hard rule. I don't mean it that way, but you actually, was that like a thing you recall telling me? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. No, because my dad had cheated. Like my dad was somebody who cheated on his spouses and probably anyone he was involved with. And so I had a huge stigma because of that. And I knew if I was good, once I got married, that was it. And if my husband cheated on me, so I was already coming into it with that suspicion, that concern. Right. So I knew I wouldn't come back from it. Yeah. I don't think anyone really does. I don't think so either. Even if you stay in the marriage, I think it's such a deep wound that I don't think it ever fully heals. And you're always suspicious and you can never trust that person again. And you cannot have a successful marriage, an authentic marriage, an authentic relationship without 100% trust. And I think a lot of that goes into where I've gone back to, you need to be best friends with your spouse or your partner. Because when you are best friends, there's just certain lines you will not cross because you were treating that person like a friend, like how you would treat your best friend. You know, it's funny you say that.

there's just certain lines you will not cross because you were treating that person like a friend, like how you would treat your best friend. You know, it's funny you say that. I meant to send you this, send you this article earlier. What some website I was on your site had mentioned, it talked about the key to long marriages and it was talking about the foundation as a friendship. Yeah. The foundation of the longer successful marriages. So here's the thing. People think that, you know, when you have that feeling of you're in love and you are feeling all those feelings and it's just so intense and it's so wonderful that that's that's what that's your person. That's your partner. That's your soulmate. But life is very long and there's a lot of things that happen in life. Eventually you lose your parents. You could have severe tragedy happen. Unexpected tragedy. You could there's could be job loss. There could be times when you don't have any money. There could be times when you have to move away from your family. So there's a lot that goes on in life. If you have dogs, you whenever you lose the dog, that's a horrendous experience. That in love feeling is not enough. It just is not enough. You need to be best friends. I can't stress that enough. You need that best friend relationship to get you through life together. And of course you love that person. And you can totally be in love with that person. I mean, you can be that can go hand in hand. You can be in love with the person, but you need to make sure you're also best friends. It can't just be being in love with the person. So I think when you are in love with the person and they're your best friend, you don't cheat. I just don't think you cheat because

It can't just be being in love with the person. So I think when you are in love with the person and they're your best friend, you don't cheat. I just don't think you cheat because cheating is one of those things that could happen in life. And you can't come back from that. And that immediately destroys a marriage and a relationship. And I think that if you wouldn't treat your best girlfriend or best guy friend that way, why would you treat your spouse that way? Why would you treat your partner that way? You need to treat your partner as good as you would treat your best girlfriend or your best guy friend. Better, better. But so many times people treat their spouse worse than they do their friends. So I think it's just very important that you have that friendship there. Because I think if you have that true friendship, that true best friendship there, you can't look the other person in the eye if you've cheated. I don't think you can. I think if you're truly best friends, you can't come back and live with yourself. And so then that brings up, okay, so why does someone cheat? Why do men cheat? If you were going to speculate on why men cheat, you've never cheated. So you're not coming at this from personal experience. But as a man, if you were to speculate, why do you think men cheat? I think there's that thing where I've read or heard that men fall in love like 10 times a day type of thing. And you know, especially when you're younger, right? If you're out and about, I don't know, I'll make up bad examples, but you go to the mall and you see a pretty girl. It's like, oh my God, I love her. And then you, you know, you're in Macy's. Then you go to Nordstrom's or whatever and you see another pretty girl. Oh my God, I'm in love with her.

It's like, oh my God, I love her. And then you, you know, you're in Macy's. Then you go to Nordstrom's or whatever and you see another pretty girl. Oh my God, I'm in love with her. I think that's normal. That's being attracted to someone. But I, you cross the line for whatever reason when you act on it and you start to be, I don't know, acting on it, right? But I don't know. I don't know why, you know, there's all those concepts or thoughts. Is it power? Is it ego? Is it, you know, low self esteem on the guy's part? Is it, you know, you're proving something, whatever it is. I don't know. I can only speculate, but because I haven't, but you know, I know I think it's ego. I think a lot of it's ego. I think that men who cheat have got to be some form of narcissist in some way because you're completely. Focusing on your immediate wants and needs over a life you've built with someone. But is it really right? I think it almost, it probably is, but at the same time, would you cheat on, say, your soulmate or your best friend type of thing, right? Right. So maybe, you know, you cheat. You're always fishing and looking for other options until you find the person that is your person. You're always your friend, your soul, you know, all the different terms you can use. So do you think that people who cheat, didn't marry the right one? A hundred percent. Yeah. Do you think that there's people that will cheat no matter what? Absolutely. That will never be able to be committed. A hundred percent. So it goes, that's why I think it's not just ego, right? There are some deep, deep rooted issues here. Probably that's driving the cheating behavior. It's lack of faithfulness. Really, it's lack of a connection. Those type of things.

There are some deep, deep rooted issues here. Probably that's driving the cheating behavior. It's lack of faithfulness. Really, it's lack of a connection. Those type of things. And that's why I say, I think there's narcissism in there. But why, if it's unhealthy, insecure, we talked about attachment styles, right? And if you're insecure, insecurely attached from day one within your primary, with your primary caregivers, maybe that kind of carries you through life in that, in that vein, in a sense. Okay. So that now we're talking about like where people come from their childhood, their trauma, their issues and all that that goes into play. So. So do you think people mask? I think people, cause I always, I see people sometimes say choose better, choose better, but don't you think everyone's putting on their best face? And do you think men in particular put on their best face and don't really show who they are until well into a relationship, until they really have gotten the person? I think that it, that is a, it depends. And I think it depends on when you get together with say your future wife. You and I got together in college. We drove around the country for a few months together. We lived together for a while. So any, you know, imperfections we had, whether they were physical, you know, a pimple or whatever, right? And then, um, blemishes to personality quirks kind of got sorted out, right? That's why I think we're both big advocates of living with someone before you get married. And that's, I think it's a semi golden role. You should definitely do that because you'll figure your shit out together. I think if you meet up with someone later in life that you don't have much history on,

role. You should definitely do that because you'll figure your shit out together. I think if you meet up with someone later in life that you don't have much history on, you know, you're going to have to be able to get a little bit of pressure around your biological clock running. That could be for both men and women, right? Women have a more defined biological clock than men. But men also have one if they want to kind of, you know, if to stay status quo, I guess, in a sense. Those are probably different. There's lack of history, lack of bonding, lack of growing up together. My parents, you know, if my dad was still alive, they would be married, I don't know, a hundred years. You know, 50, 60 years, whatever it is, they got together young. So I do think that depends on, you know, the phase of life. And there's the people who get together. It's their second or third marriage, right? And some of those are extremely successful because they've kind of figured stuff out. They've sorted through their issues. They know what they want. They're no longer marrying for some unhealthy reason. It's more a healthy connection. So, I mean, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. I just think it's really tough. I think if somebody is not being their authentic self, then they mask when they're looking for a partner. They're almost being a chameleon. They're being who they think they need to be for that person to lure them in, bait them. And I think with some personalities, they can do that for a really long time. Like, I think they can do that for a year or two. Do you, are you saying like the guy that's doing that or the woman that they're both doing it, right? I think somebody is. I'm not saying they're both necessarily doing it.

Do you, are you saying like the guy that's doing that or the woman that they're both doing it, right? I think somebody is. I'm not saying they're both necessarily doing it. I'm saying in a given situation, there could be masking going on. And that's why I think if you tell people choose better, a lot of people think they are choosing well. And then they don't realize who they married until a couple of years later. I see where you're going. And then sometimes everything might be fine because it's just the two of them, right? And so there's no huge challenges, but then you bring children into the situation. And one of the people and in that situation is probably a guy, the guy, the man. They don't like the pressures or the stresses or now she's having to give attention to the children and he doesn't get as much attention. And so then the mass comes off in that situation, but that's a new situation he was never presented with before. So you almost when you're with someone in a relationship, as life hits you with a bunch of different ups and downs and challenges, you're kind of always growing together and getting to know your partner as life goes on, because there's things that you go through that neither one of you have experienced before. So there you could be shocked. The person that you ended up with the way they handled a situation could absolutely blow your mind and affect how you view them. And one of those things, one of those things is cheating. And I think that there's people who get married and think that their partner would never ever cheat. But there has been people who've had whole other lives going on that have managed two different relationships or then on dating apps, seeing multiple people and holding down a solid relationship.

But there has been people who've had whole other lives going on that have managed two different relationships or then on dating apps, seeing multiple people and holding down a solid relationship. I cannot relate to that at all. I can barely do what I'm doing in the sense of the amount of time and the energy and the commitment to being part of a family unit. How the hell do you live a double life? That's beyond me. But I think they're not as involved. I think a lot of these people could be traveling for work or they always have to do something. They're not home. I just don't think they're home as much. I think they've set the tone right from the start. I'm only going to be home this much because it gives them freedom. There's an out. There's an out. They always have an out. They didn't start off committed in a family person right from the start so that there would always be that that freedom, if that makes sense. And then that goes back to so they aren't with the right person because if you're with the right person, you want to be home. You want to be with your children. That's your first priority. Right. So if that's and that's what brings me back to narcissism. I really do think people who cheat are narcissists because you aren't thinking about anyone but yourself. But you have everything you should be thinking about in that time of your life. You should be thinking about your spouse or your partner and the commitment you've made to them. And if you've had children, you're risking destroying an entire family. Like I always say, I hope that that sex was worth half of everything you make and your children may be never speaking to you again because that's it better be that good because that's what you have the potential to lose.

was worth half of everything you make and your children may be never speaking to you again because that's it better be that good because that's what you have the potential to lose. I mean, it better be the best thing ever. Yeah. You know, and because obviously they don't care about losing their spouse because they're willing to risk that. But you're willing to risk your children's respect and how they view you because once your children know you cheated on their mom or their dad, your children will never look at you the same way again. Ever. Yeah, probably. The respect is gone. So I don't know if that's true. I don't know if the respect is gone. It does change. Right. So, you know, this is a dynamic change, but you know, you could probably explain yourself out of most things to your children because they, you know, they kind of, they look up to you so much until it's really gone off the rails. Right? But while they're still say younger or impression impressionable, you could probably work that a little bit. I don't know. I think kids are smart and especially, you know, what if they're teenagers, middle schoolers when this happens? Well, a lot of times I think the cheating spouse will blame the other parent for whatever reason. They'll make shit up if they have to, right? Or they'll have their case. They always have their reason and the case for why. And yeah, I don't know. Okay. So let me ask you this is there's been, there's been men, I'm going to speak on with about men in this situation. There's men who say I cheated because I wasn't getting it at home. Mm hmm. I think that's insane to say, but I think that's an insane. Okay. So in my mind, what if it's like a five year drought? Okay. Okay. But in my mind, there should be therapy.

Mm hmm. I think that's insane to say, but I think that's an insane. Okay. So in my mind, what if it's like a five year drought? Okay. Okay. But in my mind, there should be therapy. Like they should be attending therapy. If you're talking a five year drought, but let's be real, that's not what it is. Okay. So guys would have every day, right? Every day, maybe multiple times a day, if they could. Let's be real. We all know that. And women aren't as interested in as men because not just because they are carrying so much and so much stress. And if a woman is stressed out and burnout, I'm sorry, it's just not at the top of her list. But biologically in general, they're not as ready to go as men are. So a man could be like, I wasn't getting it at home. Meaning for a lot of guys, it could be like, I was only getting it twice a week. But like, there's all this life going on. So but if it really mattered to him, if that was really it, then he should love her and care about her and treat her like a best friend and talk to her about it and say, look, this is really important to me. And we need to talk about this, what's going on instead of going out and cheating on her. What if they've tried that and it doesn't work out, then there's no happy medium. Okay, so if you try and try and try, and you've you've done everything, you've tried to talk to her, you've tried to go to therapy, whatever, then you you get out of the relationship or the marriage, you don't cheat. Okay, so that's where you're gonna draw the line is you just don't cheat. If it's that bad, then move on. Yes, and dissolve the marriage. You never cheat. Yeah. Okay. There's no excuse for cheating. Yeah. So if it's, but I just think that's such a cop out saying because then you're,

then move on. Yes, and dissolve the marriage. You never cheat. Yeah. Okay. There's no excuse for cheating. Yeah. So if it's, but I just think that's such a cop out saying because then you're, when you say it's because you weren't getting in at home. He's flipping it and blaming her. He's he's put accountability under her. I don't I'm not trying to take the contrarian opinion here and defend men. Yeah, no, it could be true. And what's your point? I think your answer is a good one. It's like you try you've tried to figure it out. Yeah. And if you can't then move on. Yeah, you know, and you're just not compatible and, you know, move on. And community, communicate, communicate. But here's another thing, though. I do think when you're dating and together, and if the person cheats while you're dating, that's crazy. You should not marry that person. Yeah. And if you stay with that person, and then they cheat again, it's like, come on. So and I, so I think whoever that happens to, if it's a man or a woman, you you're responsible for your reaction to that and your decision making. If you choose to marry someone who's cheated on you, then you know, there's a high chance they're going to cheat on you. Well, I agree. If there's pre marriage cheating, there should not be a marriage. Right. You just don't get married. But what about what is your thoughts on if someone cheats while in the marriage? What do you do there? I'm I my guess is you'll say counseling and see what you can work out. But well, no, no, no, I would leave. I'm done. I'm done. There's no coming back for me personally. I'm going to say my opinion. There is no coming back from cheating. There's no coming back from it. It's the ultimate betrayal. So I

I'm done. I'm done. There's no coming back for me personally. I'm going to say my opinion. There is no coming back from cheating. There's no coming back from it. It's the ultimate betrayal. So I understand that for me for you. But you know, I mean, I think I mean, there's a lot of people that do they'll go to counseling. I don't know what they do, to be honest, because I can't even fathom it. I just don't think there you've killed all the trust in the friendship and in the marriage and in the relationship. There is no more trust. Because let me ask you this quick question. Now, I think I have a feeling I know your perspective here. But cheating. What if it's a there's I do you think there's a difference between a relationship, cheating while you're married, and you're you have this second life going on versus man, I just drank too much and woke up next to someone. And I don't know what the hell happened. What's your you know, that's a there two scenarios. I'm not saying ones, you know, either or but so you're talking about like a one night stand. Yeah, one night stand that you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like maybe you blacked out or something or you know, I mean, I feel like I couldn't come back from that. Yeah. But I could see why some people might I mean, I could see why it depends on your situation, you know, especially if financially you can't leave. For us to take finances out of it. Do you think that's a good thing's fine. Yeah, there's a couple things you know, one is choose better. I don't think that's totally fair. I think that's semi flippant. But I get it. I think if you take the finances out of it too, right? Because that is, that's harder to navigate. I'm just saying your emotional attachment to the to your

semi flippant. But I get it. I think if you take the finances out of it too, right? Because that is, that's harder to navigate. I'm just saying your emotional attachment to the to your spouse. I don't I don't think I think even when you're drunk. Well, you know, they say drunk words are true are true words, right? But I think even when you're drunk, you should I you should know to not do that. I think even I think when you're drunk, typically is when you call or text the person that you want to be with, right? That's when you actually think about the person you want to be with. So if you're drunk and do it, because if you're saying blacked out, like, they're just laying there and basically got raped by, let's say it's a guy, and a woman just like, had sex with him. I mean, that's different if he's passed out or something. But if you're talking about just like a drunk guy, I think a drunk guy would would know that he should not be doing that. Yeah, absolutely. I think a drunk guy would know and a drunk girl. Yeah, I'm sorry. I shouldn't just focus on guys. A drunk girl would know she shouldn't be doing that either. I've been a drunk girl. And I when I was a teenager, I cheated as a drunk girl. And I knew what I was doing. You know, it's not like you lose your drug. I mean, if you're roofied. Sure. Yeah, but that doesn't count. No, no, no, I think I just I think when it comes to cheating, there's just no coming back from it. But again, I know that's a very strong opinion. But I don't think it is. But I know for some people, it feels that way. But I think you're right. I think the the choose better is flippant. I think that's insulting to say to people, I think that you're taking the horrible thing that the other person did, the accountability of that

you're right. I think the the choose better is flippant. I think that's insulting to say to people, I think that you're taking the horrible thing that the other person did, the accountability of that and putting it on the victim, the person who is victimizing the situation. It's a victim shaming, shifting the blade, shifting the blade accountability. Yeah. And that can go both ways. Yeah. If it was a man who cheated, and you're telling these women choose better. And if it's a guy, a woman who cheated, and you're telling this guy choose better people mask and they, if they're not being authentic, they're masking. Well, I was gonna go back to that is that's part of the flippancy of it is people do mask. Yeah. So it's like, I thought I was choosing great. This guy. Yeah, girl was wonderful. Yeah. And all of a sudden, they're an asshole. And they can that can go on for like a year or two. And just like what I said, it can be fine if it's just the two of them. But when you bring children into it, sometimes that's what triggers people's narcissism. And, and like, how so what do you mean? There's a this says go about men. There's the men who are fine when it's the two of them. But as soon as they have children, they do not like that they're not getting as much attention anymore, because the children are taking her attention away. Or maybe they're not having sex as much anymore, because the children needs, you know, her needs and all that. So they get resentful. And they're almost pouting and having a temper tantrum. Because they're not getting the attention instead of viewing it as we're partners, we're a mom and dad, now we're a family, we're going to share this responsibility. This is a beautiful thing. Look at what we created. Let's raise this

of viewing it as we're partners, we're a mom and dad, now we're a family, we're going to share this responsibility. This is a beautiful thing. Look at what we created. Let's raise this child together. No, there's men who look at it as that's taking time away from me. And that is narcissism. And I think there's a lot of men who the women didn't know he was going to be like that, how would you until you had children? Yeah. And then the women are like, Wait a minute, I thought you were going to be this great dad, but you're just mad because you're not getting my attention anymore. And I think that happens. And you say you can't tell that woman choose better. How was she supposed to know he was going to react like that? Yeah, yeah. That's not crazy. Honestly, that's a crazy dynamic because it may it got me thinking as you were saying it, it's like, well, how the hell do you solve this at a societal level? Where you go to like, I mean, there's probably pre marriage classes, right? But do they go into this stuff? I doubt it. I don't know. And then there's there's people that naturally manipulate. You know, I think you should. Well, this goes back to what we've talked about in previous episodes. You have got to talk about how you guys see roles before you ever get married. And you really have to talk and talk and talk about it because you have to get a real feel from that person. Okay. Do they really want kids? Do they really want to raise children with me? Or are they just more into being with me? And, and the idea of having kids, because that's what you're supposed to do. Or it's the image of having kids. If that's what you want it if the woman wants that. I don't know, though, there's no guarantees. And that's probably one of the

you're supposed to do. Or it's the image of having kids. If that's what you want it if the woman wants that. I don't know, though, there's no guarantees. And that's probably one of the reasons why there is such high divorce rate. Yeah, because I think also people buy into the wedding, the fantasy of the wedding and the party and the being married and, and that, that blip, that blip of this beautiful, the engagement, and the shower and the wedding and newlyweds and all of it is a blip in marriage. It is so quick. Life is marriage. Life is marriage. That whole time that year, whatever of the planning and the fun, that's great. That's not marriage. Yeah. You have to be able to do marriage with the person. And marriage is hard. And marriage is awesome. And marriage can get ugly. And marriage is the most beautiful thing that you will ever experience. So you better make sure you're marrying your best friend. And you better make sure that you can trust that person 100%. Because it's, it's not always easy. And you can't have someone that's going to be like, uh, and then go cheat on you. Yeah. Well, I think what's interesting too, though, is it is permanent, right? If, if the very thing lines up, it's permanent. And you think about how much you've changed and evolved individually over the years, as in in within your marriage and professionally and your external family. And if you have kids, the different phases you go through and there's no, I think honestly, it's modeled behavior in my mind, right? We've talked about that where, you know, you've asked, I think, why, why is it, why don't you cheat? It's like, it's modeled behavior. My dad didn't cheat. I had uncles around. None of them cheated. My cousins,

that where, you know, you've asked, I think, why, why is it, why don't you cheat? It's like, it's modeled behavior. My dad didn't cheat. I had uncles around. None of them cheated. My cousins, they're all still married. So I think that helps quite a bit. It's modeled behavior. Look at my upbringing, though. Like my dad did cheat. Yeah. And, but it made me so serious about, I'm not, I'm not going to cheat. And my husband better not cheat. Yeah. So I think it could be modeled behavior, but also if there's that bad behavior, it'll either that person may model that bad behavior or do the exact opposite because of the trauma it caused them. So, I mean, I just think that, well, here's a point. So, cause you said something interesting there. You said it's permanent. That's such a great marriage is permanent. It's supposed to be marriage is permanent. And it is supposed to be. So if you want to be married, not everyone wants to be married and that's so fine. But if you want to be married, it's permanent. Well, I think too, the worst talking marriage, but there's people who have life partnerships that don't get married to your point. And I think that's perfectly fine. It feels like it's more common now. And that's all good. Yeah. And it's, but those, the dynamics of those, I wonder if they're different at all. I don't think so. It feels like, you know, it's not like, Oh, we're, we have this open marriage, this open relationship. No, I don't think they do. There's open marriages too. Right. But those lifelong partnerships, the same rules probably apply. I would think so. I would think they just don't feel they, it's not important to them to take that next step, but they have just as much of a authentic, permanent

rules probably apply. I would think so. I would think they just don't feel they, it's not important to them to take that next step, but they have just as much of a authentic, permanent relationship as people who are married. But when you look at them, I think if you really, if people start to understand or really view it, that this is a permanent decision you're making. This is a lifelong commitment. You're going to do all kinds of things together. You really do need to make sure you're okay. Like if obviously you should be marrying your best friend and you love your best friend and you're in love with your best friend, but let's look at the sexual part of it. I think for women, women are more okay, sexually committing to one person for the rest of their life. I think for men, some men, that permanence, they could struggle with that knowing that they're not going to have sex with any other women for the rest of their life. That's a huge decision. I would assume for a guy, am I wrong? Am I wrong? Like, do you know what I mean? Yeah, I don't. I do, but I don't know. Pondering that though. Like pondering that as a guy. Do you think that guys understand that when they're getting married? Or do they think, do you think some guys think, well, what I would say is I think, like I'm saying is marriages and people evolve over time. And that's something you can look back on. It's something I could look back on now that we've been together for so long. And it's something you think about when you first get into it, but it doesn't totally resonate or sink in. Right. So this is the, I guess, an interesting concept here, but at the beginning of the marriage, you have to have a decent sex life. Should be pretty robust because that's

in. Right. So this is the, I guess, an interesting concept here, but at the beginning of the marriage, you have to have a decent sex life. Should be pretty robust because that's about as good as it's ever going to get. And so if that's a, that's maybe the tip off. If it's, if, if there's a drought in the beginning, it may not be, there's a compatibility issue probably. For sure. It will never, ever get better than say the first five to 10 years or something. And a lot of that's because there isn't as much stress, responsibility, life, money, family bills, all of that, the stress of it. So that time, yeah, you should be pretty much like, Oh, rabbits. Yes. Okay. But that still doesn't go back to my question of, do you think that when men get married, they're consciously like, okay with, they're truly okay in their soul. This is the only woman I'm going to have sex with for the rest of my life. I don't know. I, I don't know if it really sinks in or not, or yeah. Yeah. They're fine. You know what I mean? It's like, if you think about it and you still jump in and, and you know, like if you know, you know, right? If it's the, if it's the one that's, if she's the one or he's the one, they're the one. Okay. So it's fine. And then, but you don't necessarily, you, none of us are, I mean, we got married as kids, right? Most people, we got married as kids. Right. And I don't know. I think of, you know, I've reached the age now where if you're under 30, I think you're a kid. Right. So I'm totally skewed, I guess, but we did get married at 23. It was very young. Yeah. We were, we were young. We were very, we have grown up together. I just wonder if, and the, if, if some men haven't truly contemplated that, that when you're making this decision to

Yeah. We were, we were young. We were very, we have grown up together. I just wonder if, and the, if, if some men haven't truly contemplated that, that when you're making this decision to commit to your wife, you're committing that she's the only one you're going to have sex with for the rest of your life. And I wonder if subconsciously some men keep that little out like, wow, there could always maybe be a moment in the future. Yeah. I think we all do hold on to like, there may be something may happen. Who knows? Right. As rational as that is. It's like, who knows? Right. Right. That something could happen. Yeah. And, and so then you could have sex with other people. I'm 35 years in and it's like, I don't know. Is this it? Okay. If it is, it is. If not. And yet you haven't cheated. Yeah. Yeah. But then like, would you say the reason you haven't other than model behavior? What would you say is the number one reason you haven't cheated? Uh, I, I think it's, uh, um, I think it's the model behavior. I think it's just, it is what it is. Like I don't, you know, I just wouldn't do that. I don't, I don't have an interest in it. I wouldn't want to do that to you. You know, it's start, it's an okay. Here's the, uh, I'm trying to ponder this wall and answering it, but I think you start out with, I wouldn't do that to you because we're friends. We're, we're buddies, right? You're my girl and we're buddies and we've chosen to take this life on together, right? And then you get into it and it's like, well, now I've got kids and I wouldn't disrespect their mom to, you know, I just wouldn't disrespect their mom. I wouldn't want them to ever look down upon you because I'm an asshole and treat you like shit. That I think goes a long ways. But it's just not a

to, you know, I just wouldn't disrespect their mom. I wouldn't want them to ever look down upon you because I'm an asshole and treat you like shit. That I think goes a long ways. But it's just not a thing. Does that make sense? That makes sense. And I think that's very interesting. What you said, you wouldn't want them to look down upon me because of the way you would be disrespecting me by doing that. I've never thought about that before. Cause I would more think you wouldn't want them to look down on you for doing that, but you're right. Kids do their respect for their parent can also, they, they have that modeled behavior. And if the father is treating the mom horribly, sometimes the children cross those lines too, because that's what's going on in the home. There's, I don't think the kids should ever have to come to the rescue of one of their parents. From one of their parents. Now that's not to say they won't pick sides if you're fighting. If we get into a good one, they may pick sides. Yeah. And that that's just natural. Yeah. But to, I don't know if I don't know where I'm going with that, but I don't know if that makes sense. If to kind of, you would have, you'd be setting the tone. Yeah. Yeah. This is, I don't respect your mom enough to not cheat on her. So you're almost setting the tone of, why do I have to respect her either? Yeah. Now I think it could flip. I think in certain situations, the kids can become more protective of the mother. Yeah. And, and I do think the kids have issues with the father when they do that either way. But yeah, I hadn't thought about that before. Well, let me ask you this. We're talking about men cheating. Why do women cheat? It's, I don't know if it's quite a 50 50 split here, but women cheat on men too.

thought about that before. Well, let me ask you this. We're talking about men cheating. Why do women cheat? It's, I don't know if it's quite a 50 50 split here, but women cheat on men too. And, and it's an issue. So I think in my, my opinion is I think when women cheat, they cheat emotionally first. I think that there's something going on in the relationship that they're not getting from their partner. Maybe he's been an avoidant once, once in many years. Maybe he is disconnected emotionally from her. Maybe he hasn't given her attention in years. He's not treating her like she's his best friend. He's not seeing her. She feels completely ignored. So I think that in certain situations, if the right guy comes along and sees her and is, you know, friendly and fills that emotional void, I think that's what gets women way before a physical cheating situation. I think it's an emotional cheating situation. I take issue with that because the one thing you didn't say is female narcissism, right? We're saying men are narcissists, but women can be too. Yes, absolutely. And then everything you just said, all those reasons for why the woman, the woman cheats versus the man, why can't they apply to the men as well? They can. Okay. They can. No, that can be, that can go both ways where the woman ignores the man and doesn't acknowledge anything that he has been doing. Doesn't, you know, make him feel valuable or all the things men want to feel from their partner. It can go both ways. And there are female narcissists who will cheat and don't give a crap at all. But in general, in general, I think men cheat physically and women cheat emotionally. So I think that if she is not getting her emotional needs met, and we're talking over time, because

all. But in general, in general, I think men cheat physically and women cheat emotionally. So I think that if she is not getting her emotional needs met, and we're talking over time, because a woman typically will hang in there for years trying to get that. But eventually there's like nothing there. And if the right situation swoops in, and another guy gives her that attention, then that leads to a physical cheating. Yeah. But typically she's emotionally cheated first, because typically women lead with their heart. Um, but men, I think are much easier to cheat physically. And I think there's men who love their partner, love their wives, truly love their family, and can go cheat and feel nothing for the women they're cheating with. It's to them, it's truly a physical act. And maybe don't even really have a lot of guilt over it, because their emotions are still tied to their partner. But it's still so messed up because you're, you're completely disrespecting your partner, your friend by cheating on her. So you think you're giving her what she deserves emotionally, but you're still completely lying to her and betraying her. So it's very interesting. But I mean, in general, I think women cheat to answer your question, because their emotional needs are not getting met. Yeah, they're being ignored. I just wonder too, though, I really feel like for a men too, it's, you know, there's got to be something deep rooted there that is not met emotionally as well. To drive them in, it could be narcissism, it could be that simple, but it, and it just could be a biological thing, right? Where you like to hunt and, you know, well, what type of thing? I don't know. What's that saying men like the strange? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And they want something new. Yep. And

to hunt and, you know, well, what type of thing? I don't know. What's that saying men like the strange? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And they want something new. Yep. And there's some men that I think get married. And I think there's men who get married that don't want to get married, you know, and so, but I think there's men that get married. And after a while, they're like, no, I want to have sex with someone else. I do think there's situations like that. Yeah. And those guys should not have gotten married. Those guys should be lifelong bachelors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you never know what situation family wise or whatever. Okay. So let me ask you this. If in a relationship, like we're talking a long-term relationship and especially in a marriage, do you think that your partner should be have best friends that are the opposite sex? No, no, I think that's silly. Yeah. So you don't think that there's ever a time where the wife can have a best friend who's a guy or the husband or the guy can have a best friend who's a girl. Do you think there's ever a situation where that's acceptable? To me, no, no, but I can wrap my head around that being a thing. But for me personally, no, no, because your best friend should be your partner. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I kind of, you know, I feel like I've either seen this in movies like Hallmark or something, or, you know, you read about, I don't know. It feels like it exists. And I don't know if it's completely terrible and wrong or not, you know, but at the same time, it's not my thing. If you're talking about a Hallmark movie, the best friend, if it's the best friend, usually they end up to get no, I don't think there's ever a situation where the partner, like the husband should have a best

the best friend, if it's the best friend, usually they end up to get no, I don't think there's ever a situation where the partner, like the husband should have a best friend who's a woman and the wife should have a best friend who's a guy. What if it's, what if one of them is gay? So the woman has a best friend who's a man who's gay. I think that's fine. Yeah. Right. I think that's totally fine. Yeah. Cause you, there's no threat there. Yeah. You removed the threat. Truly platonic. Because if you're, if you're that close with the opposite sex, it's, there's a high chance it's going to grow into something. Yeah. And also I go back, whatever you're getting from that person, you should be getting from your spouse. I think, I think your spouse should be your best friend. So, okay. So what about, what about just having friends that are the opposite sex? Do you maybe like go out with and do things with, no, I don't think that works either. I've thought about this, right? Cause we, we talked about this a little bit the other day, the only opposite sex friends that I have are coworkers and their work friends. It is truly a professional friendship and they're, I have pretty good friends, you know, female friends that I've worked with for years that I respect. But it's, it's wonderful thing because there's a natural boundary. Yeah. So it's a wonderful thing. It protects everybody. And, and I would say that you've had friends because of parents of our kids friends. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like you've, when it's couples, that's different. Yeah. And usually it's because it's the kids friends, parents and all that. I'm good with that, but there's no sidebar like, Hey, let's go get ice cream together. Yeah. No. Well, you know, that's not out.

because it's the kids friends, parents and all that. I'm good with that, but there's no sidebar like, Hey, let's go get ice cream together. Yeah. No. Well, you know, that's not out. And even in that situation, boundaries should always be held. A hundred percent. In those situations, when you have couples hanging out, it's very easy for boundaries to get across. I'm big on that. And I know some people are gonna be like, Oh my God, you know, you're threatened or it's not that it's a respect thing. And I do believe that whatever you're getting or need should be from your partner. You and your partner should be friends. So you should not need to be friends with the opposite sex. Now you can be friendly. And, but it's not like they're your friend. You're going to go do things with them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing things with your partner or a couple situation or work people. Yeah. But I don't think there's ever, you know, like if a guy says, excuse me, Oh, well, she's just my best friend. It's like, no, no, that's a red flag in my eye. No, there's no, no way. No, I agree. To me, that's not a thing. No, just not a thing. I think that's asking for trouble. Yeah. So I think once you get together and you're in a serious relationship or you're in a marriage, that privilege, I guess, of having friends of the opposite sex, like close friends of the opposite sex, where you do things with them, I think that that needs to be let go because your best friend is your, is your spouse. I think that happens early on before you get married. That stuff should get sorted out. Yeah. But I don't know if it always does. Yeah, maybe not. So, but that goes to how hard do you think it is for once you're an adult to make friends? I have no friends, so I have no idea. It

it always does. Yeah, maybe not. So, but that goes to how hard do you think it is for once you're an adult to make friends? I have no friends, so I have no idea. It must be really hard. Oh, you mean of the opposite sex? No, in general, in general, like, do you think that it's like, it's mainly when you have kids, it's mainly parents of your, your kids friends? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think you have work friends. Yeah. Like I have a group, good group of guys I work with that I, you know, I really like. And yeah, and as we, some, you know, other people, if they've moved away to other companies to stay in touch and I think that's all good. I don't, I don't, once a woman leaves though, I, that to me, I don't have any female coworker friends who've moved on to other things that I've stayed in touch with. So just the guys, just the guys. Yeah. So I think as you're going through life, you, your friends are work and like friends from college or high school. Yep. Yep. And then parents of your kids friends. Yep. I think that's it, right? Yeah. No, I was going to add that. Yeah. It's like your coworkers, your friends of the, your kids parents or the parents of your kids friends. Yeah. And then it is your high school and college friends that you've chosen to stay in touch with and social media has helped significantly with that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, honestly, I think they're your best friends still. Cause there's at least for me. And it's not like I see them, right? We're 3000 miles away from most people we know. Um, maybe not that far, 2000 miles, but I, if, when you see them again, it's like, it's like an old glove and it just fits and you just slide right in and it's all good. The ones you've chosen to keep in your life. Yeah. Not just, not the

if, when you see them again, it's like, it's like an old glove and it just fits and you just slide right in and it's all good. The ones you've chosen to keep in your life. Yeah. Not just, not the acquaintances and stuff, but like the actual real friends. Yeah. Yeah. And then maybe if you do stuff like belong to like a tennis team or golfing, you know, those people become friends, but I do think that friendships as you're an adult friendships are situational. And to your point, the ones you made that you choose to stay in touch with from high school or college, or maybe your twenties years, those are ones that were truly made and based in friendship, but then the others you meet either through work or through your kids. Well, think about that, right? So people that you're friends with, and I'm not even saying best friends, just people you would consider friends, maybe they're Facebook friends. And if you happen to go to their city, you hook up. Right. If they happen to be down here, you see each other, hook up, hook up, hook up. But where I'm going with that is you know, their parents, you know, when, so some of the people I know, I knew their parents, I know their brothers and sisters might've gone to a family barbecue. So I know their uncles are weird, uncle, weird, aunt type of thing, their grandparents. It's just, you know, yeah, that's a, a permanence that just last decades. But then it makes me wonder, like, there are people who are huge extroverts and wherever they go, they talk to people. They, if they're at a restaurant, if they're at a bar, if they're traveling, whatever they're doing, their past time is talking to people and like making friends. So I don't, I think that part of that is also if you're an extrovert or an introvert,

traveling, whatever they're doing, their past time is talking to people and like making friends. So I don't, I think that part of that is also if you're an extrovert or an introvert, and how settled you are with the people in your life. And I think if you're introverted, you're fine with your like circle, little, your small circle, the people that you trust, and your family, you know, your family, whoever you choose. But I think if you're an extrovert, you're constantly collecting people. Yeah, maybe. And I think that might be the difference. Because, and there's that neither way is right or wrong. It's just, there are people that are always making new friends, making new friends, making new friends. And then there's people that I think that can cause them anxiety. Yeah. And they're like, No, I know these people. And I trust these people. And I vetted these people. I only have so much time in my life. These are the people I'm choosing to give my time to. And that works for them. Yeah. But for the extroverts, they're like, wherever we go, we're gonna make friends. Yeah. And so part of me wonders if it's like, making friends as adults, it really depends on your fear, an extrovert or an introvert. I think that 1000% does. Yeah. Yeah. And then if you're a couple and you're both introverts, yeah, then you're like, No, we're good. Yeah. And so it works. And if you're both extroverts, I mean, I know you're an introvert. Like one of your biggest nightmares is if we is going on a cruise, you would never want to go on a cruise. It will never happen in my lifetime. Because you you're afraid you don't want to talk to people and you don't want to have to run into the same people night after night. You don't want to make friends. It's an

lifetime. Because you you're afraid you don't want to talk to people and you don't want to have to run into the same people night after night. You don't want to make friends. It's an interesting thing because, you know, we were we did that boat thing. And I did a lot of talking with the captain when you went out with the boys. Yeah, yeah. You had a boys weekend this past weekend with our sons. I did a lot of talking with the captain in the first mate. And so you could say I was an extrovert. Right. Right. Well, okay, you're an interesting introvert. I probably am. Because you have no desire to really spend time with anyone. But you're, you're like, when you're out in the yard working, you talk to everyone, you waved everyone. And in like in a situation where if you're in a small setting, a small group of people, you will be one of the more extroverted people. But you don't seek that out. No. But if it happens, you're very friendly and very open. But only if it's like, it perfectly falls in your lap. I wouldn't say that. But just to be clear on the waving to everybody, my theory, my, my, my thought there is if they're looking, if I'm outside and they're looking at me, I'm gonna wave. Yeah. But force the issue. Yeah, it's kind of funny. Yeah. Because then they'll either look away or they'll wave. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then we become friends. But you've been the first to say you would be fine living on a bunch of property. And it was just you and me and the kids and dogs. And you wouldn't need to associate with anyone else. Correct. I need women in my life. Yeah, I cherish the women in my life. I think women should have women friends. I'm a huge girls girl. Super pro women. And but I'm talking like my quality friends. I'm not

need women in my life. Yeah, I cherish the women in my life. I think women should have women friends. I'm a huge girls girl. Super pro women. And but I'm talking like my quality friends. I'm not the type where I want like 30 female friends or women friends. I have my group. I trust them. And that's my girls that I need. I need that for balance. And I think all all women should have at least one female best friend. And I'm not just talking where we live here. I have, I have friends from the past from college from that I've known through the years. And I cherish them. And I stay in touch with them. So I don't think I could go and live on a bunch of property, unless I can still have my, you know, once or twice a month night out with my girls. And then I'd be fine. Yeah, but I have I have to have that I couldn't be somewhere where I can't I don't have access to go spend time with the women in my life. Yeah. So but I know you don't really feel that need. Well, it is different as you're talking through that I I'm on the phone quite a bit, right? I work from home. Yes. And I'm on the phone most of the day, nearly all of the day. Yeah, one after another. And, and I do start my day with talking to the same people pretty much every day. And I like it, I, you know, I get a lot out of that. So I don't know if I'm a total introvert. And I it's an interesting concept, because do I when Friday night rolls around, if we don't leave the house until never, I'm good. Right? I don't even need to go to Home Depot or Lowe's or anything. I'm good. But I do get fulfillment, you know, however passive or active it is in just my daily life, interacting with people. Yeah, I think that your social battery is burnt by Friday. Because you've been on the phone talking

you know, however passive or active it is in just my daily life, interacting with people. Yeah, I think that your social battery is burnt by Friday. Because you've been on the phone talking with people. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, but you also are not big on going out to dinner. I don't know. You've always hated it. Yeah, you've always pushed back. It's not anything going out. It's not something you enjoy your idea of being home is, whereas through the years, by the time Friday would come, I had been home with the kids and I wanted to get out. Yeah. And you'd been out at work. Yeah. And you wanted to stay home. And I'm sure that happens to couples. Oh, yeah. Where we have opposite needs by the time Friday comes. Yeah. And at that point, there was some battle there was battling the I always said I'd have to do like a PowerPoint presentation two weeks before I'd want to go out just to get you. So but I think that is interesting, you know, just how friendships ebb and flow, but I still go back to no matter what. I don't think that anyone should be again, my opinion. I don't think anyone should be close with the opposite sex. I just think it's it's inappropriate. I just I think it's dangerous, you know, yeah, too many opportunities for maybe some unintended consequences or misunderstandings, boundaries getting crossed. You know, I think that is part of marriage is protecting it. Right. Yeah. And if you cherish it, then you don't want to expose it to any risk. And it's not a thing like of trust. It's just that. So what what what are you not getting from your partner that you think you need from this other person? And I'm not talking about acquaintance stuff like we went out to dinner with couples. I'm talking about like,

your partner that you think you need from this other person? And I'm not talking about acquaintance stuff like we went out to dinner with couples. I'm talking about like, where you're on the phone talking to someone for like an hour. Why do you need to talk to someone of the opposite sex on the phone? Yeah. If it's not work related, it doesn't make any sense to me. I cannot think of a scenario where that's remotely appropriate or I'm not even approved. Right. I'm yeah, you know, but no, there's not some I don't know, hard, you know, died in the world type of hardcore person here. No, it's totally inappropriate. No, you shouldn't be meeting someone for coffee to talk with them. No, that unless it's like work related or school related. But no, that that's that is that's what I'm talking about. Those boundaries have to be set. So well, if you think about that, right. So here's probably why I'm not into it. When you when you think about that, when you first start to get get together with someone, those are the things you do. You maybe go get coffee. You maybe go get dinner. Maybe you go get a drink. Maybe you go for a walk. Right. Those are the activities. Yeah. That you are part of the courtship or courting phase. Yeah. Right. And then over time, that continues to evolve and stuff. So if you're doing that, you're getting some juvenile romantic fee. You know, I'm saying it. Yes, there's something happening there that's not completely altruistic. And that other person could feed a part of your ego, that it could then open the door of comparing. Well, this person makes me feel this way, where your partner could be exhausted from life, and isn't going to look at you and be like, Oh, you're so wonderful, because maybe they just got done with

this person makes me feel this way, where your partner could be exhausted from life, and isn't going to look at you and be like, Oh, you're so wonderful, because maybe they just got done with a meeting for two hours or cleaning the bathroom, or who knows what's going on. So you it's not fair to compare this fresh perspective to somebody that you're doing life with. Yeah. Because when you're married, you're doing life. Yeah, it's a fluid, active thing that requires work. And it's awesome. But it's, it's not some, it's something you have to honor and cherish. And I think that's probably in the vows. But I mean, for real, you have it's just setting those boundaries as part of that. And that brings us back to you just never cheat. You just can't cheat. Yeah, it's just, it's not going to come back. It's not worth it. And I will go back, make sure if you're going to do that, that that experience is worth your money, and your time with your children. Because that's what you're training, and you're losing your partner. So that experience better be that valuable, bringing you that much joy. Because you literally are losing your partner, access to your children, and at least half your money. I actually think your other perspective is probably a little better in that. Just move on. If you're gonna cheat, just move on. Yeah, you know, just move on. Oh, yeah, no. And the relationship. Yeah. Yeah. But there's too many people that want both. Yeah, but they want they want the they want, let's speak for men. They want the wife at home, that's taking care of their children or the wife, not necessarily at home, but the wife and the mother of their children. And they want to still be able to go and get some on the side. There's a

that's taking care of their children or the wife, not necessarily at home, but the wife and the mother of their children. And they want to still be able to go and get some on the side. There's a lot of men like that. Yeah. There's a lot of men that want both. And I think it amazes me that they have the energy to pull all of it off. Well, there is the concept of marrying a virgin. And, you know, protecting that, that I don't know what the right word would be. But, you know, almost putting that person on a pedestal while you're out doing your debauchery. Yes. Right. That is a thing. Oh, I think there's men who have that. Yeah. It's called the Madonna complex. Why what's the Madonna? It's like the Virgin Mary type complex, you know, where she's just pure. She's the mother and the wife. Yeah. But you're going to go do all your other stuff. No, I think there's a there's definitely that still goes on for sure. Yeah. And that might that might maybe will end in our generation. I don't know if the younger generations men subscribe to that at all, but I know men in our generation for sure. It's an interesting thing just to tie it back to a generational podcast. The what's the millennials? Yeah. I wonder if that's as big of a thing. This is more of a boomer thing that got gets, you know, isn't as prolific in the Gen X. The Madonna complex. No, no, no. The just men cheating or women cheating the, the, you know, you mean like are the millennials cheating? Yeah. I wonder if there's a statistical variance between the generations on and how that all pans out. I don't know. I mean, I know that somebody is a listener. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know just from what I researched with the whole dating apps thing. I think there's a lot of really sketchy

out. I don't know. I mean, I know that somebody is a listener. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know just from what I researched with the whole dating apps thing. I think there's a lot of really sketchy stuff that goes on, but I don't know if once they get married and settle down and commit, if there's cheating, cheating on it, because you're right. I mean, in Gen X, there's definitely is a lot of cheating. You know, it's funny too. You, you know, I, everybody, I don't know too many guys that cheat in my world. It's just not a thing. I don't think men tell each other when they cheat. I just think that I'm pretty confident that guys, at least the guys I work with, right. And we've talked about, well, yeah, they're right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So their it, okay. So yeah, there's women that I've seen on social media that say, where are the guys that are going to be loyal? Where are the guys that aren't going to cheat? Where are the guys that are going to be good husbands and good fathers? And it's the nerds. It's the nerds. So you're calling me a nerd. Yes. Get out of here. No, it's the nerds. It's the nerds. The nerds are the ones that are going to be loyal husbands, wonderful fathers, good providers, because a lot of them are in it. Um, and that's, you know, I'm not saying that the other guys aren't those things either, but a nerd is pretty reliable. You know, you can, you can trust the nerd. Although there is that risk of the nice guy nerd who seems like a great guy and then he ends up being psychotic or crazy or mean or thinks he's this big high value man. And, you know, it's like nothing like you thought, but in general, nerds are pretty safe bet to marry. I'm dying because I don't consider myself a nerd, but I get the reference because I

nothing like you thought, but in general, nerds are pretty safe bet to marry. I'm dying because I don't consider myself a nerd, but I get the reference because I am into nerdy shit. Oh yeah. But the best is getting called a bet of a beta male the other day. Oh yeah. I'm still laughing. Oh yes. I know. That's pretty funny. No, but that is, that is where you'll, you know, you find a lot of that, that loyalties. I forgot that we were talking about that, but yeah, I don't know. I'm not a nerd. I'm a Leo. So, you know, you're a weird combo because you were an athlete, but then you act, but you were a closet nerd. Yeah. You were taking apart clocks when you were young, trying to figure out how they worked, but you also were the quarterback on the football team. So it's like, you kind of had this weird combo, I guess, but I would say those, those are the safe bet. So I mean, I don't know. I think we started with cheating. Um, we went all over the place, but I think people just before they enter into full commitment need to make sure you can handle it. Make sure you can handle what you're getting into because it's a full commitment of your mind, your heart, and your body and your wallet and your wallet. What was the other thing we were talking about? You know, what's funny is, um, speaking of nerds, you got guys like, uh, what's the name? Bezos. Yeah. He's getting married soon. Uh, Zuckerberg from Facebook, right? He's a nerdy guy. And I don't know what his wife is or anything about her, but he's, he's got a wife and everything. Yeah. Some kids, um, you know, the chief nerd finally got divorced, Bill Gates. Yeah. Right. Um, so it's kind of interesting. Yeah. No, they all, I think nerds find their, their partners, their spouses. Yeah. You

finally got divorced, Bill Gates. Yeah. Right. Um, so it's kind of interesting. Yeah. No, they all, I think nerds find their, their partners, their spouses. Yeah. You know, you know, but you know how you said, um, you don't know any guys who cheat. And I said, they're not going to tell you that they cheated. Like, I don't think that's something guys bring to each other about. Is it when you wouldn't know? Cause you said you don't have any friends that, no, I don't think they tell each other, not that I'm aware of, but you might get the, I've definitely been around guys that are like, that are married and there's a, there's a pretty woman there, a hot girl. Yeah. And they're like, Oh, you know, that kind of thing is like, but that's not, that's not cheating. That's not cheating, but they may cheat. That might be the type. What I'm saying is the guys that, that I know I don't, I wouldn't do that. Okay. I might, I don't think so, but I'm not doing that. Like, Oh, look at that type of thing. Right. Yes. You know what I mean? It's almost a projection a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I could, I see what you're saying. Like that could be intuitive of other things. Yeah. So there's this trend going around right now where women are sharing voice memos or voice mails that their exes, ex-boyfriends have sent them or sharing recordings of their ex going off on them. Like they've turned their phone on during the argument. And these men are saying the most horrendous, abusive, disgusting, threatening things to these women, horrible. And, and they're just normal men. Okay. And then there's men coming on, making videos saying, where are you girls finding these guys? And the women are saying, they're your friends. And I do think that

normal men. Okay. And then there's men coming on, making videos saying, where are you girls finding these guys? And the women are saying, they're your friends. And I do think that there's a whole aspect of men that other men don't see. I think that ugliness that is inside some men that they only project onto women because they feel stronger, they feel powerful or whatever. They're being abusive. They only share that part of themselves with the women in their life, but the men in their life never, ever see that side to them. And it's just, it could be your best friend. And you would never know that he's a horrible person to his girlfriend or his wife. And so it's been very interesting to see this trend expose a lot of that and the shock value on men with it. Cause they're almost acting like these are the exception. They're like, they're making the up type of thing. No, they're more like, these aren't normal guys. Like these, these, this isn't how guys are. And women are saying, no, this is how guys are. This is how, how not how all men are. But there are a lot of men like this. You just don't, they don't do this around you. Cause you would tell them to stop. You would go off on them. They're, you know, they would never feel safe being like that around their peers. They would be judged. It's kind of funny because I, I, you know, as you're saying that I think men are extremely fragile, very fragile and very weak and very, you know, just sensitive. And it cracks me up again. The guy who called me a beta male, because I was, I commented that I could never do some of the things that you've been through. Like the hysterectomy and that kind of stuff that just makes me queasy. But I think I'm an alpha male to be able to admit that.

never do some of the things that you've been through. Like the hysterectomy and that kind of stuff that just makes me queasy. But I think I'm an alpha male to be able to admit that. I don't want that happening to me. I'm good at, you know, he was referencing a sore shoulder. I have sore bones. My knees hurt at times, but that's not an internal thing. That's crazy. Yeah. So my, my point is, I think men are mentally, at least emotionally, probably underdeveloped in many, many aspects. So when some, when a woman maybe rejects them or, you know, doesn't go along for the ride, they go nuts. Doesn't do what they wanted. Yeah, maybe that's, you know, it's, I don't, I don't know if it's a, it's not a compliance power play per se. It's just, you bruised their ego and they don't have the capacity to deal with it and cope with it and move on. And it's like a deep low or something. And so it's just being like, okay, whatever, you know, you're crazy or whatever. She didn't like my shit and she called me on it. Okay. I'm moving on. Yeah. Or avoiding or avoiding. Yeah. Which is abusive as well. I'm sorry. But no, it, it also, though, I think there's a lot of anger management is, I think there's a lot of anger issues with a lot of men and not just throwing this on men, but I'm sorry, the, the violent outbursts, the aggressiveness and this trend is about men that are normal, regular guys and then are getting exposed. Is there a flip side of guys doing the same because girls do this girls can go crazy. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not yet. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. But it's, it is, it's disturbing. Like if you listen next, I'll actually send you one. If you heard it. Yeah. It's, it's not, it's not just normal. It's like really disturbing. So it's,

it is, it's disturbing. Like if you listen next, I'll actually send you one. If you heard it. Yeah. It's, it's not, it's not just normal. It's like really disturbing. So it's, it's been very interesting. And that's, that brings me back to, I don't think men share that dark side of themselves with each other. So you guys don't totally know what you're each capable of when it comes to how you are with women. I think you, that's private, right? So I think you guys, you don't totally know. Yeah, probably not. How deep it can go. I think it's, I think it goes both ways though, because I don't think it's not necessarily masculine or cool to have your buddies know that maybe you're whispering, I love you. I love you. I'll see you later. You know, that kind of thing, right? When you're hanging up the phone and it's the opposite would be, I don't know, you better watch it when I get home or what I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He is right. But the two extremes, the two extremes, it's just not something we're sharing. We're down the middle here. So wait, when men are together, do they ever talk about or share how they feel about the women in their life with each other or do they keep that private? I don't know if we share what we think about our wives, you know, it's because there's a common understanding if you're married and you're not out bitching about the wife, you're, you probably like her. Yeah. Right. If someone's complaining, though, I don't know if I've come across that in years. Maybe I've been in situations where people I've worked with are known their wives are fairly controlling in a sense, or that's at least the perception. And it's like, well, when you come in home, why aren't you home? You know, you don't do that to me.

their wives are fairly controlling in a sense, or that's at least the perception. And it's like, well, when you come in home, why aren't you home? You know, you don't do that to me. So it's not an issue. Yeah. But there's people like that where, you know, it's, but the flip side is girls night out. I'm all for it. Go have fun. I'd prefer you to be home semi early so you don't wake me up. But I've come home at two in the morning before, just to be clear. Not in years though. Oh, not in years. But there's guys who don't like their wives. Oh, yes. I know. And there's women who don't like their guys going. Yeah. So there's, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's probably where it gets exposed. I would say, but as women, we still share, but not like super deep. I think you reach a point in your marriage probably where you do keep some things private. I would say most things. You keep most things private. Like we keep pretty much everything private. But so yeah, I think the longer you're together and the older you get, unless it's an abusive situation, extreme situation, even with women, I think we still keep most things, you know, unless there's something serious going on. But with your closest girlfriends, you still may share, you know, a decent amount. So but I don't know if men I don't, I don't know. I don't maybe there is groups of men who do talk and share about all that type of stuff. But it probably just depends on the people. Yeah, it definitely not the nerds. Yeah. No, we're talking computers, sports and weather. Again, this is why you should end up with a nerd. Then he'll make a hydroponic garden and talk to you about that for hours. Yeah. But yeah, I think that that probably covers all of our little thoughts and ramblings on cheating.

Then he'll make a hydroponic garden and talk to you about that for hours. Yeah. But yeah, I think that that probably covers all of our little thoughts and ramblings on cheating. On boundaries in relationships and marriage when it comes to being friends with the opposite sex. Adult friendships in general, you know. And again, cheating is a no. You know, the last thing I will say is I think this is it's not a sense of a sensitive of a topic for us. But it's just it's a sensitive topic. It's pretty serious, right? And it's devastating. When you're in that situation, I don't think we're making light of it. It's just something. Yeah. Yeah. No, cheating is devastating to everyone. It's like throwing a bomb into the relationship. And if you have a family into the family, it just there's just so many casualties that happen. It goes everywhere. And you just can't return back to normal. So it's heartbreaking. I heartbreaks for the people who've had to go through that honestly. So yeah, it's one of the reasons I wanted to talk about it. You know, share, share. So yeah, again, we would love to hear from you. And we have some exciting guests coming up. Over the next couple months, we're going to be having a lot of of really cool episodes. So keep your eyes out on that one. That'll be just boom, boom, boom coming up. So we will see you next time. Bye.