Episode 39 - GenX Speaks Series: Dr. Patrick Lynch

Welcome to GenX Adulting. And today we have Julie Golden, who is the founder and host of the Big D dating show. Welcome, Julie. Thank you, thank you for having me. We're thrilled to have you. So the first question we always ask our guests is what year were you born? 1969. So you are Gen X. I am Jen X, baby. And I'm cringing at how I just said that, by the way. So I already have the first, I have the first thing I want you to lose. And where were you? No, no. There's no cringing in GenX. We own it all. Yes, exactly. So where were you born? That's Failure is funny to us. I was born in Chicago, Illinois. Yeah. Okay, so Midwest. And are your parents from there? Yes, I had to just do a quick, because of course as a GenX gal I have two sets of parents, all of them from the Midwest, yes. Okay, so your mom and dad, do know how they met? I do. My dad was a jazz pianist. He played at the Jewish country club known as Nippersink and my mom, it was like dirty dancing. My mom was there and they fell in love. I mean, it didn't stick so I don't know what they did, but they had me. ⁓ That's awesome. So he played the piano. Yeah, he actually played the Playboy Mansion in Chicago. He toured, or I guess he didn't tour with Phil Stiller. I'd been telling that story, I was wrong, but he played for her. ⁓ So he was a jazz pianist, and then my mother's father, who was a lawyer at the time, informed him that he would no longer be a jazz pianist, he would be a lawyer, and he would come work for him. So, ⁓ was he always musically inclined, through his childhood and college and everything?

So, ⁓ was he always musically inclined, through his childhood and college and everything? Yeah, he was, ⁓ he's where I get all of my creative compulsions. ⁓ My mom would disagree, which is always funny to me, but ⁓ yeah, my dad raised me on Millbrooks, Carl Reiner, Looney Tunes. He's hilarious, an actor, actor, jazz pianist. So that's definitely where I get all that stuff from. And... My mom, well that's gonna be a much larger story. She was a big deal in publishing. So impressive, mean the biggest badass woman, love her, but she thought she was funny. I'm like no mom, they were paid to laugh at your jokes, that's different. If you're the boss, you have no idea if you're funny. ⁓ Yeah. So was she a writer? Was she involved as an author? No, she actually, you know, back in the day, I'm trying to do the math, guess they split up when I was like two, so that would be, I guess, 1972, right? That's probably most people were like, hey, let's get out of here. I don't know. She was a stay at home mom at the time, which is a very strange concept to me, and that is no shade to stay at home moms. That's just, if you knew my mom, that's crazy. Yeah. Right. I don't think that was ever gonna be her path, but ⁓ she had not gone to college. She used to be embarrassed of that. I think it's one of the coolest parts of her story. ⁓ They split up, and this was back in the Don Draper divorce days, where there was no shared, I mean, there was shared custody, whatever it was like. I went with her, and I saw him when I, yeah. So essentially, mean not. Yeah, the Wild West. Yeah.

Yeah, the Wild West. Yeah. He was a great dad. I'm not saying he was negligent on his duties, but she really was a single mom and she had to make a living. So she got a job as a secretary. I can't remember the name of the place, but she worked her way up through the kind of the ad selling space of publishing. And without a college degree behind her, she ended up becoming the group publisher of Crain's Communications, like just ran the whole thing. So. Mm-hmm. Wow. Wow. Very cool. Would that have been like so through the 70s she was building her career and then in the 80s kind of took all took that over basically. Yeah. Yeah, she was the shit. She would not like it, I'm swearing. ⁓ So she was like that quintessential, that's okay, we swear. ⁓ She was like the quintessential like 80s working woman, working mom, can do it all, everything. that was your example with your mom. And then your dad, you said, gave up his ⁓ arts, his love for the arts and became a lawyer. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, you know, that was definitely back in the day when you had to grow up early. And if you had a kid, you became a responsible adult. he, I don't know if he had already gone to law school, but my mother's father was a successful lawyer at the time and said, you're gonna come work for me, kid. Did he keep working for his father-in-law after they got divorced? No, because fun story, and yes, I almost had a development deal for this. My grandfather, I don't know if he was embezzling money from clients, but the law thing didn't work out for him. I think my dad was involved with defending him at one point. He was disbarred for some kind of shady dealings and became a traveling salesman, my grandfather. So, no. you

you and then I can bury the leader, can get right into the juiciest part of this. But it's so interesting to me because it's like the arc of feminism, you know, like my mom. Anyway, my grandmother, my nanny, was totally like a fabulous stay at home Jewish mom in the suburbs in Skokie of Chicago. I remember there was just like Tab. Remember Tab? Yeah. I I can't believe I'm saying, you remember Tab on a Gen X podcast? Yeah. It's horrible. Okay, okay. yeah. Yeah. I can. No, I can I can taste it. I can taste Tab as you said it. But back then, I loved it. I did. No, I couldn't stand it. I loved it. And then they came out with one that was like with lemon. And I love that one, Yes. Yeah. Pretty much. Did she work for Tab? Your grandmother? She drank it. Okay. Yeah. Did you? I didn't get into the diet drinks till like now I'm addicted. Yeah, yeah, just rat poison in a can, it was great. Yeah. No, sorry, I just had a flashback to hanging out at the pool and there was always Tab there. No, my, so, in addition to my grandfather not being great with clients' money and all that stuff, he had started to have, ⁓ I'm just laughing because I'm like, wow, I'm just telling the whole family story. He had an affair with my uncle's friend ⁓ and left my grandmother for her. Okay. Okay. ⁓ I don't know how old she was at the time. I don't know if she was But she was young she was ran, but here's what I say with with him to the end they were soulmates, so there's something there but The the point of it. Yeah, I mean the the mistress became the wife. Yes Sorry, sorry Okay. Right. Right. Wow. So she stayed with him? ⁓ wow. ⁓ okay. Okay. So then your grandma was a stay at home mom. Did she end up going to work or did he support her still?

Okay. Right. Right. Wow. So she stayed with him? ⁓ wow. ⁓ okay. Okay. So then your grandma was a stay at home mom. Did she end up going to work or did he support her still? No, that's the fun twist that got Hollywood all excited at one point. ⁓ I'll come back to it and sell it one day. ⁓ There was this great place in Skokie called Myron and Phil's. It was a red leather booth. restaurant, just boozy, you know, broads, the cocktail waitresses. ⁓ And I guess she was there one night crying over her martini to a friend. sorry, I forgot this part. She tried to get work, but the government was garnishing her wages because of my grandfather's crimes. So she literally could not make money. She could not make an honest living. And so she's crying over her martini and this guy next to her hears it and says, hey, are you good at math? And Wow. Anyway, his name was Irv. I thought he was my uncle Irv. That was his crime name. He was a bookie for the mob and he hired her to be a bag lady and ⁓ they fell in love and she worked for him forever and they were together till she died. yeah, that yes and that That's amazing. Yeah, that's cool. That is awesome. That's actually that's very badass, actually, I think. It's a history of badass women that like did what they had to do to get done, you know Yeah, Yeah, no, that's awesome. and this was all everyone stayed in that in that Chicago area, your whole family.

Yeah, Yeah, no, that's awesome. and this was all everyone stayed in that in that Chicago area, your whole family. Yeah, my mom, my biological father and I were born in the city. And then there was, then we moved out to Mount Carroll, Illinois. There was this big movement back then of like city people moving out to the country, like to Little Town USA. And that's where they split up. And then my mom and I moved back to the city and then she met my now stepfather. Well, she squeezed another marriage in there with another guy, but whatever, that was. Mm-hmm. He was one and done, Herschel. I my mom did the same thing. She was saying your mom was married three times. So was mine. And it was they think they thought they had to write. It wasn't as easy. I know with my mom, with my second stepdad, and I don't know if you ever refer. He used to laugh because I'd be like, well, that was with my second stepdad. And then there was my third stepdad. But ⁓ I still laugh. Yeah. It's your entertainment. I know. I know. But Correct. Yep, they liked to get married back then. Yeah. Right. That's hilarious. I remember my dad had said to my mom, because they were living together and he said, well, I don't want her there if you're not married. And so she is they got married because my dad had said you can't live together and they shouldn't have gotten married. They should have just dated for a while and lived together. But I think back then women thought, well, we have to get married to these people. Right. Yeah, I mean, I think that's still part of our psyche until you get divorced and start a dating show called The Big D. But yes, uh, uh.

Right. Yeah, I mean, I think that's still part of our psyche until you get divorced and start a dating show called The Big D. But yes, uh, uh. Yeah. Yeah. For the women before us though, I think it was just automatic. You know, so I think you've got a story there. It just probably has to cycle back when Hollywood's producing stories about in Chicago again, right? They don't seem to be doing it at the moment, but that stuff will come back. You have a strike. for sure, for sure. I mean... Right. I think you're right. Yeah, thank you. I've always held on to it. It got so far, you know, it was one of those like, my ships coming at, you know, and then it just broke my heart and I'm like, this'll be, this'll be later. It's not going anywhere, you know? Yeah. I'm sure it's meant to be real quick. Can you are you able to bring your camera? So there we go. Yes. Up a little. Now go up a go up a little bit, a little bit more. A little bit, a little bit more, right? Yeah, a little bit more. There you go. That's good. That's good. Wait a little bit more. ⁓ Up. We need to see you more your face. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, we were seeing too much ceiling. Yes. The headspace, I know, I always miss headspace. ⁓ I have the worst framing here. Okay. Down? ⁓ Got it. There you are. Yes, that's good. Okay, good. Awesome. So why do you know why your parents got divorced?

There you are. Yes, that's good. Okay, good. Awesome. So why do you know why your parents got divorced? All right. I was so young. ⁓ I mean, knowing them now, they were never going to be together, you know, like. I think she was such a larger than life, fiercely independent woman that was going to take over a portion of the world. I think she was probably, if I had to guess, she was probably restless. I don't know that she was articulating that at the time, but they definitely fought a lot. I remember hearing them screaming at each other. It was not good. nope, just me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now did you have siblings? Okay. And then did your dad, was he still a lawyer after they got divorced? Did he continue down or did he go back to the arts? No, he did continue ⁓ lawyering and ⁓ actually he stayed in Mount Carroll, Illinois, this wonderful little town, a little college town when we moved back to the city and that's where he met my now stepmom, who's amazing, Patty, and she was clerking I think at the time, but she was another lawyer. So lawyers in love, yeah. But he's still, just to be clear, he's never stopped playing piano and he gigs whenever he can. ⁓ Okay. Okay. That's good. It's the happiest you'll ever see that man is on the keys. Yeah. That's awesome. That is cool. Now from the other marriages, were there other children? No, unlike you, the second husband for my mom, well, yes and no, sorry, my mom, Hershel, it was like, I don't know, she claims that he was really mean to me, I don't remember that, but there's no stepfather one and two. Like when Michael, my stepfather, entered the picture, I was seven, and it's been him, like he's still, ⁓ you know, I... Yeah

Yeah He's my dad, but my dad's my dad. You know what mean? I don't mean, I'm lucky in that way. And then my stepmom and my biological father did have two boys later. You know, I was in high school. ⁓ And the weird thing is, you know, they were babies when I was in high school, and now they're in their 30s and we are so close and we are so similar, which is so interesting to me. I mean, talk about nature nurture, like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's great. Mm-hmm. That's cool. Yeah, that's awesome. Because you weren't raised in the same home. But did you see them like every other weekend or no, you you would have been by high school. You've been doing your thing. You've been doing your thing. So that's awesome. You guys are close. No. It wasn't even that. Yeah. Yeah. I can't even explain. mean, my dad and I and my one of my brothers, Josh, it's like triplets when we're together, the same sense of humor, everything, you know? And Zach's amazing too, but he's more, I feel he's more like Patty. It's just interesting. Yeah. So I'm very. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, to have that wide of a age gap too and not grow up in the same house and be like that, it's very cool. Yeah, I can't even explain it because I also moved out to Los Angeles like pretty much as soon as I got out of college. I apparently according to my brother Josh who now lives out here, I'm the reason he came out to California. I'm like, do not put that on me. I have no idea what you were witnessing, but I was constantly having a nervous breakdown in my 20s working in Hollywood. So I don't it looked very glamorous to them, but ⁓

Yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah, of course, of course. Now, would you say your childhood was a typical Gen X childhood? Did you have some of those, how we all say we were feral and no one was watching us and we were unsupervised? Like, what would your perspective be on that for yourself? Yes. yes. All that. Well, it's so funny when you were like, tell us some memories, like by you saying that, I just remembered when we moved back to the city, so now we're in Chicago. Like this is crazy to me in hindsight, right? We're in the city. Like were there less serial killers then? I don't understand, how am I alive, you know? Yeah, I think that we they didn't know is ignorance is bliss Yeah, yeah Right, in a way. ⁓ But if I'm doing this right, I was in second or third grade and all the kids on the block, we all knew each other and we would just, you know, the classic, like out till the sun came down. I remember there was a boy older than us who in hindsight should not have been hanging out with us and he had like a kissing contest. I mean, it's crazy, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Now you think about the things we did and what we were exposed to it. We would never, ever, ever let our children do that. Raising them. Did you hang out? Well, did you hang out on like a stoop anywhere somebody stares like a random set of stairs as a kid?

Never. No. There was an intersection near us. Sorry, go on. Well, we were in the city, we moved 15 times growing up too, so that's another part of my thing. but so in the city, we were in apartment buildings, so there weren't really stoops, as I recall. It was just running around the streets and ⁓ I was just gonna say there was this intersection near us that was insane, one of those like 10 different, like we would cross that. I think I almost died once, I do remember that. Like, ⁓ kids shouldn't be crossing here. Wow. Yeah, yeah. No, no, I think that to write it in some ways Gen X became kind of helicopter parents. Like our pendulum went this way because I feel like Gen X tried to give our children the childhood that we had wanted as far as Yes. ⁓ Not that all of our childhoods were horrible, but there are certain things we probably all wanted and we tried to make sure we gave that to our kids. And as a result, know, some of our kids have then I think issues in other areas because of that, you know. Right. Yeah, yeah. You know. yeah, they're totally inept. They have no life skills. I have a whole set of that, believe me. Yes. Yeah, but we are. We're compensating and over-correcting for what, which was really parental neglect, but they didn't know any better. Yeah. They didn't. And we survived. Yeah, we did. We did. We did. But I think that all of us, to some degree, could say we have some sort of trauma, whatever it is that we could unpack. I think it's because of he's still working on that. But, you know, and now we have Gen Z and Gen Z is awesome. I love Gen Z. But there are certain things where you're like, I was doing that when I was nine. How do you not know how to do that at 22? I don't understand. You know, but that's because of us.

Yup. Well, I have a new theory, because it's so funny, it's my new theory. We did too good a job, we should pat ourselves in the back. Because my son, who's 15, no interest in getting his driver's license, like doesn't need to leave the house. Like, you you couldn't keep us inside when we were kids. But to a degree, I'm like, he doesn't hate me. He wants to be near me, you know? and how we raise them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. It's a great trade off. It's true. We have ⁓ kids in their 20s and then we have a 15 year old and they all want to hang out with us and it's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it's not like the cool parents are irresponsible. It's just like not this like black and white. I'm the boss because I said so right the generation of and kids should be Seen but not heard like that's a lot. You're not supposed to be heard as a kid Right? Yeah, yeah. We listen. Yeah. Yeah. No, we've given them a space to express themselves and we listen and it's so cool. You know, you I love that you brought that up because I will take that trade off any day. I'll teach them my skills. If if what I created was an authentic relationship with my child is a great trade off. Yeah, 100 percent. So why did you guys move 15 times? Yes, same. I agree. Can I circle back a little bit to something Brian said and then move back to the 15? Because Brian, you're saying we survived, but I think what's interesting about that is I want to compare therapy bills later in life with how much therapy our kids have and how much therapy we've had. But anyway, we'll see. But we don't know, we don't know. Okay, 15 times. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You Yeah. This is interesting. This is another time. Okay, so, well first of all, there's a bigger psychological thing I've realized now is that my parents, rather than a hobby or any existential whatever or any therapy or any like, they would just remodel houses and move and move and move, you know? Like, there's a psychological thing. But financially and economically, that was back in the day when you could just be a regular person who had a job, you got raises, you could buy a house, you could then buy a nicer house, like you could keep... Hmm. improving your life and that's over now. So they did that. We started off in a rental apartment and I remember they bought the first little teeny fixer and you know they were very, they built the deck. They knew how to do everything too. I don't know how to do anything. ⁓ So they kept doing that and then I think they just got addicted to avoiding staring into their souls you know and just looking at wallpaper instead. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's financial incentive there too. You can parlay, parlay and keep making money. So it's a great gig. Yeah. And they did. I don't want to, you're absolutely correct. They were great with money. I didn't get that part from them, but they were great with money. could, money was like rabbits for them. They could just, yeah. You Yeah. They were ahead of their time flipping. They really were. That's so funny. I didn't even think of that. Now it wouldn't be considered anything.

You Yeah. They were ahead of their time flipping. They really were. That's so funny. I didn't even think of that. Now it wouldn't be considered anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, they're. Yeah, no, but I mean, and I get what you're saying. It was probably a distraction for them, like you said, but it was also they were way ahead that, because now that you know, then flipping, you know, it's gone crazy with that's a whole thing. So but they were way ahead. So. Yes. Yes. Yes, but we moved three times in a three block radius once. That was weird. Yeah. ⁓ Did you have to change schools that much or were you able to at least go to the same school? Yeah, this is so fun. feel like this is your, I love what you've created, a safe place for kids today. No, but I mean, this was back when public school was, well, okay, wait. There was also, I feel like this is politically incorrect to say, but it was a thing that happened and I don't know what to call it. But when, so we started off in the city. And the Chicago public school system collapsed as it did in so many city public school systems. So there was this thing called white flight, I don't, I mean, it's, think it's a historical term, but basically everybody moved out to this. Correct. Yeah. So we, that's what we did. So the, the schools were excellent out there. So to answer your question, you went to your local school. There was no, you guys are in Florida, right? white people moved to the suburbs. Yeah, historically, Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know if you've got the whole magnet point, it's just like all this craziness of magnets and charters and, is your local school good? ⁓

So I don't know if you've got the whole magnet point, it's just like all this craziness of magnets and charters and, is your local school good? ⁓ We have public schools great where we are. ⁓ so what it is, is we have great public schools and then a lot the private schools are excellent. And then our public schools have, ⁓ it's kind of maybe like charter, I'm not sure, but they have programs like one of them has a pre-med program, one of them has an entrepreneurship program. And you can, if you're not zoned, you can apply to be in a lottery. ⁓ Yes, charters, yes. And if you're picked, you're like, let's say it's five miles across town or 10 miles across town, you get picked, your kid can go there. So if you're zoned, you're automatically get to go to your high school, let's say, but you can try to go to others. Is that kind of what you mean? Yes. Yes. Yeah, and I don't know if you have the magnet system, we have a version of that too, where you have to like game the system while your baby's in utero. You have to like apply it. The point is it's so broken that we're trying to create these ways to ensure a school path, but my kid hasn't been to the same school with his friends the whole time, but to answer your question, Brian, yeah, like I moved, but I still went to the same elementary school. I still have the same friends. I still went to the same high school. Like it wasn't that...

I don't know. I don't- That's that suburbia kind of smallish town, limited number of schools, right? Like in the city, there's, if you go to like Manhattan, right, there's public school one through 99. And they're in different neighborhoods and all that. And depending on where you live, that's where you go. The suburbs, like where I grew up, we had two elementary schools, one junior high and one public high school and one private. And that was where your choices. What's that? Yeah. Yes. Yeah, yeah, there really were. Yeah. Yeah. Where'd you grow up? Where did you grow up, Ryan? I grew up in a place called Sparta, New Jersey, about 50 miles west of Manhattan. So the northwest corner of New Jersey. Very rural, like farmland. Very beautiful, actually. Not what you think of Jersey. Yeah. No, we can go see Tony. He was 30 miles east, but yeah. You can visit Tony, but then you get to go back to your nice farmland, little town. All of Tony's guys now own all the McMansions where I grew up. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Right. Not like Tony Soprano. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yes. Of course, yes, yeah. That Chicago style thing, right? Once you get out, probably Chicago, metro, suburbs. Yeah. So at least when that was going on, you didn't have to change schools. You had the consistency of friendships and your schools, but that had to have caused some anxiety right as you would get settled into your bedroom again and into a routine in this home. But you probably never really totally rooted because you knew this is not going to stay. It's not permanent.

Yeah, yeah, there was a lot of that. Yeah. That makes sense on paper, and yet I swear to you, I loved when we moved. It was exciting to see where my new room was gonna be. It's weird. But I'm gonna just throw out a psychological theory here. It's not crazy, I think this is correct. No, that's great. That is cool. I remember it being very happy and exciting when we moved because they were happy. Because they liked the project. So the smell of wallpaper or paint, like things were good. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. It was kind of tied to you knew that that means everything's okay. They were good. So you guys are all good. Yeah. Now have you found as an adult? You're you fix things up or that you enjoy it when do those sense bring back a feeling of, I don't know, contentment or happiness for you? Does it trigger anything good? Yes. Yes, oddly moving. Yeah, I never thought about that till now, but yeah. Yes and no, I love moving into a new place that's totally empty. It does feel like, I mean it's a fresh start, but I also feel like a prisoner of this compulsion to look at open houses constantly, and they were always trying to suck me in. They're like, look at this house down the street. I'm like, I'm happy here, leave me alone, you know? So that constant need, man. Yes, yeah, I've licked it, yes, I don't. Yeah. Yeah. That lingers. That has lingered, it seems like. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. I don't feel good when I go into an open house. I start to hyperventilate. I'm like, no, what are we doing? This is avoidance. That's interesting. That is really interesting. Yeah. So when you were in elementary and did you call junior high or middle school where you were from?

That's interesting. That is really interesting. Yeah. So when you were in elementary and did you call junior high or middle school where you were from? Yeah. ⁓ that's interesting. I feel like it was called middle school. I don't think it was called junior high school. Yeah. ⁓ Okay, so through elementary, middle school, high school, did you play any sports or were you involved with music or arts? Well, I don't know about you guys. Wait, where'd you grow up, Okay. So we had elementary school and then a separate middle school. Is that what you guys had? And then high school? Yeah. Yeah. Oregon, Portland. Yeah, we call the junior high. I think you called it junior high. Yeah, called it. Yeah, but it was separate. Yes. Yeah. No, I mean I did, but I was not an athletic kid and sadly my son has followed suit. I... Elementary school, I think I was already like kind of a theater kid, you know, wanting to be in plays. Junior high school, all my friends dumped me and I became unpopular, so I was just trying to survive the three years there. Ugh. Middle school sucks. I think it's the worst time for people and I think it's the worst time to be a parent. Because I know I went through hell and my kids did. I saw PTSD from what my kids went through and there are kids who were mean to my kids and I could be 80 and see them in the grocery store and I'll still curse them. Our kids have gotten past it. I will never know my kids maybe have gone past. I won't. Yes. with you. ⁓ I'm absolutely with you. I know it's unhealthy. I'm absolutely with you. I despise these children. I don't see them as children. I see them as future dictators. I know exactly who they're gonna be. I don't buy any evolution for them, because I remember them, because parenting is reparenting.

here. Yes. Absolutely, 100%. Yes. No, I know. It's the worst thing is they then do it with their kids. It's just the bullies having more bullies and more bullies. So listen, when you said that about how your friends flipped and then you were just trying to get through, I hear you. It's the worst. It is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's the worst. And my son, it's so funny, because I totally take pride in being a former nerd, while a lot of people say they were a I'm like, you weren't a nerd. I can smell nerd on people. You don't have trauma on you. ⁓ But it's easier to be popular, so was hoping my son would be popular. And the moment I saw it, I'm like, first of all, it makes total sense, because he's, you know. Yeah. And he's amazing. He's like hilarious and weird and loud. I'm like, that was me. That was me. Not cool, you know? And it was great in elementary school. The kids loved it. But then it's like weird. It's like they want to... We don't do that here, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then the alpha boys, they all try to be the alpha of them all. And if you're not an asshole, you are you're screwed. That's really what it is. So and you're not raising an asshole. you know, it's going to, you know, it's the worst thing. But then what we found with our kids is then through high school gets better. And then, course, in college and, you know, and I'd rather have them be the person they are with depth. Ugh. Yes. Yes. Totally. Now. Yes, he's doing, yes. and all the wonderful things we've raised them to be, then be an asshole and be popular in middle school.

Ugh. Yes. Yes. Totally. Now. Yes, he's doing, yes. and all the wonderful things we've raised them to be, then be an asshole and be popular in middle school. ⁓ a million percent as if that's a number. Now you say I'm bad at math. And to go back to the over-correcting for our childhood, like I remember in middle school I was obviously depressed. My girlfriends all dumped me. And I remember my mom very clearly. I who knows, it so long ago. But I feel that I recall her saying, well, what did you do? Right? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a boomer thing. I think that's more common. I think it's more common. It's just like they also have a hard time complimenting us without there being a but but yeah, no, I was raised that look at it from there with the side they're coming from. How what's their outlook where ironically, Brian's parents were silent generation and he was raised and Irish Catholic Jersey. He was raised like, fuck him. Yes! Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. He was raised like, you know, I know, I know, I know. And so we raise our kids. Yeah, I'm in that mode now, though. I'm in the fuck them. Who cares? Well, he me permission to raise my kids like that because I would have done what my what how I was raised like, well, let's see what side maybe they're having a hard time. And he's like, fuck that. Yeah. You know, screw that kid. Yeah. Yeah. They're dicks. So and I think Gen X. That sounds so nice! I'm gonna start crying. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're dicks. Yeah. We have our kids backs because we felt our parents didn't have ours.

That sounds so nice! I'm gonna start crying. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're dicks. Yeah. We have our kids backs because we felt our parents didn't have ours. Yes. Yes, yes. In fact, yeah, my son reached a point, which is this dance, right, where he didn't want to tell me anything, because he knew I would come in guns blazing, you know? And I'm like, I promise I won't, you know? Because I knew at a certain point you can't, right? But. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, I don't I don't know because let me tell you a quick story. My daughter is 24 and she plays on an adult softball team and we thought there was a somebody had written something mean on the roster that was online, but we come to find out it wasn't. was like a technical thing that just sometimes goes, it was no one did anything. I called the city. I called the city. Yeah. I did. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, who has access to this app? Yes. god, yeah. I'm laughing because I knew, I love it. You're ready, you're like LFG. I want to know. Poor guy who picked up the phone. he's like, no one has access. I'm like, well, and then he explained. I'm like, thank you. And she's 24. So I don't know if it ever really ends. You know, that's the thing. I love it. Yeah. No, in fact, my mom, for all of her, what did you do? The truth is, years later, she called me ⁓ giddy and excited. I was mortified. She was a big deal executive. And she's like, you'll never guess who was just here interviewing. I'm like, who? And then she mentioned a name I'm not gonna mention. Who was my best friend. It would hurt the most. I'm like, God. She's like, I made her cry. I'm like, mom, don't tell me that. That's horrible. ⁓ no. That's She's a grown awesome.

⁓ no. That's She's a grown awesome. human! She's like, I'll never forgive her. I'm like, I just wish she hadn't blamed me back in the day. This doesn't help, yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Right, right. I almost think they did it because they just wanted to fix it. They wanted it to be done. I knew and they were mad, but they were they went about it a different way. So now what about in high school? You were in theater? I assume. Yes, they know, they know. Yeah. So yeah, so then high school, I feel like there was something else I was gonna say about my kid in middle school and I can't remember now. Oh, I was gonna say the overcorrection thing. I don't know if you've done this, but I've gotten so bad with him about protecting him from the pain from these people that I know I've done him a disservice because he does not stomach discomfort well. Whereas our generation, I feel like anything we can put up with, I can compartmentalize. Mm. anything, you know, which Yeah. Yeah. No, it's true. It's true. They feel everything. They express everything and any little blip. It's a there's no grinding through. They don't grind through. So it's acknowledging it and you know, and you're right. No, that's true. That's the same with our kids. I'm curious because I think she handles that better than I do. I wonder how you handle that. Are you? I'm abrasive, maybe for lack of a better word where it's like Mix bag. No. No. Yes. Come on, knock it off, keep going. Where she'll sit and listen. Where do you fall on that spectrum?

Mix bag. No. No. Yes. Come on, knock it off, keep going. Where she'll sit and listen. Where do you fall on that spectrum? Yeah. Yes, I... ⁓ Not good, not the good side of the spectrum. ⁓ My ex-husband, his father, was really good about being the measured disciplined one. He's got a really good sense of when to push our son and he knows it I know it. Like I just, because of my mom, who I loved, she's no longer with us by the way, who I loved, but because of what I went through, I mean, I have royally fucked up and gone the other way, so... Yeah, yeah. if he ever doesn't wanna go to school. Like I'm always, I'm way too lenient. But the flip side of that is sometimes I'll feel guilty because I'll hear my ex-husband or an ex-boyfriend's head, you know, remind my mom in my head, like you're being too soft on him. And then all of a sudden I'm like, you gotta get out of bed. Like it's like I'm schizophrenic with him, you know? Yeah, okay, yeah. Right? Yeah. And it's like all your anxiety, you're like, project. Yeah. Yeah. But are you okay? I you. Are you happy? Yeah, yeah. It's so funny. It's so true, though. It's so true. It's funny, my daughter with my 15 year old will get like that, like, because some days we don't know if he cares if we exist and other days he loves us because he's 15. Yes, yes, but do better! You're not gonna get one over on me, but are you okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. Have I said I'm sorry? Yep. But then she'll just be like, you happy? Everything okay? Like, what can I do? And he's like, I'm fine. Leave me alone. So now there's older siblings that are like overcompensating. So this poor kid. But ⁓ okay, so high school. Were you theater?

interesting. Yeah. So high school, ⁓ we were still in Evanston, Evanston ⁓ is, sorry, Evanston, Evanston, Illinois is very, it's where John Hughes is from. So 16 candles, all that stuff. That's where I grew up. ⁓ But I was the nerd. Okay, anyway, high school was less painful, as you said. So I was there freshman, sophomore year. I was on the soccer team. I have no idea why. And my only memory was I scored a goal for the other team. Like I remember that to this day. Evan, in Illinois. ⁓ okay, okay, all right I was very proud of myself. I didn't understand why nobody was getting in my way and everyone was yelling. That sounds like something that would happen in a movie. That's awesome. Now, were you in plays when you were in the Yeah, that's me. Yeah, yeah. If it's a yeah. wait, I do have another embarrassing thing. I also was in synchronized swimming. Nice. They had synchronized swimming in Chicago and in Illinois. Actually in the 80s. That's impressive. Wow. In Evanston. Yeah. It was one of those like... Yeah, yeah, it was it was ⁓ not cool. Just to be clear, it was not a cool thing to be doing. It could still do. Yes. So wait, you were a theater kid who did synchronized swimming is what you're trying to say? I couldn't get cast. Oh no. You are different for a different place. Yeah, and it actually is. yeah, the theater program at Evanston is kind of a really well known theater program. John Cusack, Jeremy Piven, like it was a very. So, ⁓ but still fuck them anyway. ⁓ And then. No, they're older, so, but but I do have some famous names coming up to hit you soon because my my mom moved us then back to the city for my junior and senior year and I don't. Okay, okay. Yeah. Were you in school with any of them? Okay. Okay.

Okay, okay. Yeah. Were you in school with any of them? Okay. Okay. She said it was to be closer to work, but I almost feel like she could see that I was socially floundering. I mean, it wasn't painful, like middle school, but I kind of just felt invisible and lost in this huge school. Did you find your people at all? Not there. Not there. I mean, I found some people, you you find someone to hang with, but it wasn't until we moved into the city and we went to a fancy private school, I guess my mom must have been doing really well at that point, ⁓ and it was called Francis Parker, and there were two big fancy private schools, Latin and Parker. And Latin was definitely more of the, it was known as the, I don't know, the... Yeah. Yeah. Francis Parker was the hippie-dippie theater school, know, and Latin was more like around the path for, I don't know. ⁓ And so at Parker, Anne H., I don't know if you remember Anne, she was in my class, so we were in Fiddler on the Roof together, yes, yeah, and yeah, sorry, then I was theater kid, yes. I thrived and flourished, and this is interesting, this is gonna get back to the overcorrection of our kids. ⁓ Right. Right. Yeah. OK. wow. That's cool. So you got it. You got parts there. Okay. At that school, it was cool to be smart and weird. then I was like, oh, it was great. I'm like, this is my place, for God knows how much a year. So I've always felt bad that I can't afford private school today compared to then. Well, I don't know what it's like in Florida, but you know what private school here is? Like 55 grand a year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, mean, we have some schools like that. We have schools like the Catholic schools or less. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah, Catholic, if you're good with Jesus, 20 grand. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, mean, we have some schools like that. We have schools like the Catholic schools or less. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah, Catholic, if you're good with Jesus, 20 grand. Yes. Yes. Right. But the other ones are what you're talking. Yeah. Okay, so his dad and I can't afford that and I've felt as I saw him being unpopular, getting bullied, it was like I feel so bad I can't put him in a private school where I feel like he would flourish but. Yeah, yeah, no, and I can see that because I do think for kids that struggle in that large public school environment, they do thrive in that smaller space. And I can I feel you because you did. Because I think it sounds to me like you ⁓ were on a totally higher level than the suburban public school. Like what you had inside of you flourished once you got into the city. Yeah. I mean, I'm glad you said it, Nicole. Yes. It's just, you know, once you got into a city, it was just more evolved, I think, probably, and there's more going on. And the school itself could cater to, you know, what your interests and talents in a better way. have a feeling there's no public school options like that where you're at. Yeah. No, you're right. So, yes, so that's where the whole magnet thing comes in. So I have done a good job as a mom, I will say. I have found the best, least bad version. He does like where he is now. I guess middle school is gonna be a shit show no matter where he went. Also, you have a 15 year old, so you know, right off of COVID going into middle school, they were just feral animals, not in a fun way, not in a drink from the hose way, you know? Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right, yeah.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right, yeah. I think they all were struggling in middle school, it was ironically, he loved theater as a kid. And then he went to middle school and it was a performing arts middle school. I thought this is gonna be great, but they were bullies. like, no, there are bullies in the performing arts program. Yes. Yes, they need to push down, isolate, create stratus of popularity. So, ⁓ totally, yes. They're all assholes at that age. I think it's the age. Yeah. It just doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's like Lord of the Flies years, I call it. Yeah. And also my son is ⁓ a cop of the world. He's like into justice and gets up in everyone's business. And I was like, where did he get this from? Like, ⁓ shit, that's me. That's me. Anyway. No. And that doesn't apply in middle school because I think snitch. Yeah, you're saying you're saying like, remember hearing that word my 15 year old and like, what do you mean? He goes, no, you can't snitch. It's like it was the biggest thing in middle school. Yeah. So yeah. But now he's in high school. Now it's the same, but now he's in high school, right? So. Yep, he was a snitch. But he also, sorry go on. Now he's in high school so he's in this, so then you go and it's all the magnet program so you go to a big school but at least they figured this part out. You're in a small school within the school. Maybe that's what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's in this humanities program, which he's such a history kid. I mean, it blows me away how he just like connects dots. And this whole program is about weaving all the topics together through the lens of history. I'm like, yes. So he's doing well. ⁓ and the other.

That's awesome. That's awesome. That's perfect. That's perfect. And then, so for you, you got into the, what you call it, liberal arts. Was it a liberal arts or performing arts? The high school. the high school? It wasn't known, it wasn't technically that, but it was, like, you would just be junior, senior year. Yeah, like, it looked like Woodstock in the hallway there. It was hilarious. ⁓ Okay, and you were there for junior, senior year? wow. then during those years, did you kind of know that you wanted to further your education and that in college? Is that what you went to school for? Yes, and if I'm ever acting too much like a producer myself, please stop me, but can I circle back and just talk about one more thing about middle school and high school? Okay. Okay, because I know you're gonna relate to this too. In hindsight, okay, so my son was diagnosed with ADHD for real. Not like I know there are kids being over-diagnosed, I get it, but it explained so much of his behavior in middle school, why... Of course. Yeah, we do all that. We do that all the time. Yeah. Right, right. He didn't stand a chance, you know what I mean? it just, and Anyway, his dad and I didn't agree about how to handle it, and then we did, and things got better. But the point of the story is, I'm realizing, that's what was, that was me in middle school. That was me, and they didn't have terms for that, so they put me in a learning disability class with criminals. Like, kids, I mean, you know, but like, trouble kids. It's just f***.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you know, that's Gen X girls were because when they did finally start diagnosing it, it was boys like the Gen X girls were ignored with ADHD because it's I think it's harder to diagnose in girls because girls are so high performing and they just I think they can mask it easier. It wasn't as odd. The boys were hyper, hyper, hyper. The girls, I think it was Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. little bit different. So, but I can't tell you how many women I've met our age that came to find out they have ADHD. ⁓ Yeah, I mean, again, I have not diagnosed it, but honestly, I don't need to. I'm watching my kid. I'm like, can I have some of that Vyvan's? I've learned ways to curb it, you know? But, and so the other, I'm sure you know this too. So he's gifted, whatever that thing is, you he tested gifted, but he's like 2E, because he's got ADHD and gifted. So again, like where does he fit? And we got him the thing, it's fine. But, ⁓ Yeah. You know. Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right. The point is, ⁓ one of the things about his type of brain, again, I don't know about you guys, it's like light bulbs about your childhood, is I started doing well junior and senior year, because suddenly they were small classes of super advanced topics that I was interested in. Like the big general stuff, was like drool, you know, and that's, it's just, yeah. Yeah, 1000%. Yes. Right. Right. that continued into college. I know for me that continued into college because I also started picking up that once I became an upperclassman, all of sudden I was like focused and this is interesting. And then I was able to carry that in through school, through college. But up until then, I was kind of just like, yeah, yeah.

Yes! ⁓ Yeah, I struggled. Yes, total struggle academically freshman, sophomore year, junior started to get interested in senior year always. Just like. Yeah, yeah. So is that what like in that? Did you know? Did you have colleges picked out where you wanted to go? Like once all of this was coming together for you? I only got into one college because my grades were not great. I got into Yeah, so it was like where do we put this delinquent? No, I'm just kidding. There was no record ⁓ No, I just yeah, my grades were so spotty. I didn't test well SAT. No, that was not ⁓ I think those should just all go away but So the only school I got into was easy to get into now it's really hard to get into which is so funny to me but it was University of Wisconsin Madison and from the earlier years in high school. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It was amazing. It was a five-star school, but it was also a five-star party school. So it kind of got looked, yes. Now it's also a extraordinarily hard school to get into, which is funny. I'm like, whew, I got in. Yeah, that's a party place. Yeah. Yeah, Madison's cool. We've been there once. We liked it. It's a cool town. It's a crazy town in many ways, right? That's kind of when it blew up when you were there. I think it blew up as a party school and a cool place to be. Yeah. I'm sure. What were you rested for? It was amazing. Yeah. Yeah, it was great. Yeah, yeah, I had my fun for sure. I was arrested twice. Well, the first time was underage drinking. Of course, the cops put us in the back of the car and took us back to our dorm and I was such a brat, I was like, don't you have something better and more important to do with your time, coppers? Poor people dealing with college assholes. Ha ha ha.

Ha ha ha. And then the second time was my senior year and we were throwing the most epic party ever. I've always thrown great parties, which is what the big... I'm not trying to get us to the Big D, but it is funny. I've been throwing hosting parties and get... I love people-pleasing. That's probably a bigger mom issue. Anyway, the cops totally screwed us. They waited outside and they caught an underage drinker coming out of a college party, of course, because it was, I don't know, a sophomore urging. So I had to go to court and my dad... Yeah, yeah. was my biological father had to come as my lawyer. He did. In fact, I don't understand. Like, I think back to that, I'm like, how was I arrested and brought to court? I don't have any, nothing happened. Like, I mean, I guess in Madison, they're like, get in line, kid, you know? There, there, it paid off. had your own lawyer. Did he get you off? Did charges drop? Yeah, good. Yeah. That's awesome. So when you first got there, I assume you were in the dorms, right? I was in the dorms, was on fraternity row, I rushed, which was weird, I went to the store, which is not me, I don't know if you can tell, but that's what I did, and I'm like, I don't. Was it like a theater? Like, did you go to different sororities and then pick which one was it? Well, that's just ruthless though. it is. But her daughter did it. The whole Greek system for girls, for boys and girls, but especially girls, was crazy. Yeah, it's all judges you on, it's just appearance or anything else.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes. And I have to say, they couldn't fire me, I quit. A few of them wanted me, but I was like, isn't, I don't think this is my, this is not my people. This is not my, no. I was a little sister. Do you remember that thing? That's the biggest scam ever. Like really, now you just have a bunch of young girls coming over to your parties? Well done guys. So I did that. Okay. So you weren't in this sorority at all or you weren't you were like, no, this isn't it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they still have it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Our daughter dropped after two years. She was like, this is enough. Yeah, yeah. It's just you're either in it or you're not. It's hard to. There's no middle ground. So you were in the dorms your first year. Did you know your roommate? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't think there...you're right. There's no middle ground. Yeah. ⁓ I was such a spoiled brat. I didn't want a roommate, so I demanded that my parents give me a single. Yeah, and they did. But here's what I'll say, I gave back to the community, I became the party room. So we would smoke a ton of weed, I would play Led Zeppelin, and I had a really nice fridge full of snacks. I made sure everybody was well fed, with the towel. The RA hated me. Nice. There you go. There you go. I don't think we didn't have that option where we went to school. You couldn't choose to be in a single. You had to have a roommate. No, but so many people dropped out. We went to a school called. Well, now it's called Southern Oregon University. But when we went, was Southern Oregon State College. I think it was like 6000 people. Yeah, roughly small in Ashland, Oregon. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Deborah, where were you? Okay, is that where you guys met? ⁓ college sweethearts!

Yeah, Deborah, where were you? Okay, is that where you guys met? ⁓ college sweethearts! Yeah, he came out there from New Jersey and went to school and I was from Portland. So it was like four and a half hours south in Oregon and yeah, we were friends. to Ashland? Being in LA, it's, I mean, it's not close, but it's closer than Florida. Yeah. I have not, should I? Yeah. Yes, cool. Actually, it's a very artsy town. have a very big they're well known for their Shakespeare Festival. Yeah. So every summer there's the Shakespeare Festival there. It's pretty cool. It's beautiful. It's an outdoor theater. 20 miles north of the California border ⁓ into Oregon. So if you're ever up that way in northern California, it's worth stopping in Ashland. It's beautiful. same. yes! That's right. Alright, I'll put it on the list. Yeah. I love it. I love Northern California. That's where my son and I both think that we should be living, just so you know. Yeah. Ugh. Okay, right. Well, I took him on a trip. Oh my God, we did like Russian River, Russian Valley, like that whole area, and then we went down the, is it Mendocino Coast? No. We love Northern. When we go to California, we go to Northern California. What do you consider Northern California though? From Mendocino County, sure. ⁓ Yeah, my god, was like Pegasus was gonna just come in off the clouds off that craggy. ⁓ so beautiful there. Yeah. Did you go to the Eel River area? Like the Eel River and like Arcata? Yeah. And what about the Redwoods? Have you checked out the Redwoods? Yeah. Remember that. Yes. I mean, it's just... That's where we're all supposed to be, right? Like, it just feels... It feels like heaven. I don't even believe in heaven. Sorry if you do, but that is heaven. That would convince me.

Yeah, totally. No, it's awesome. It's awesome up there. Yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. Now you love Ashton, you got to check it out. But where we went to college, there was no choices. You were in a dorm with a roommate. So it's nice you had that. That's cool. And that you were able to kind of have everyone come in, but then you were able to say, okay, go back to your room. Now I get my own. And then your sophomore year, were you in an apartment then? Or did you have roommates? Okay. Right. Yeah. Yeah, get out. ⁓ Yes, I'm going to sleep now. Yes. Yeah, a bunch of us girls from the dorm decided it would be a good idea to have seven girls renting a house together. it was fun until it wasn't. Yes, there was a lot of drama. There were a lot of bathrooms. It was like those crazy college houses. I don't know if it was a boarding house at one point, but it was like this, you know, but no, it was... ⁓ That sounds like fun. Yes. Yeah, that sounds crazy. How many bathrooms did was Okay. Alright. We had great parties, but at a certain point I didn't think people even wanted to come to the parties because there was always some drama that was exploding. Yes, yes. with the girls. Are you still friends with any of them? Yeah, well actually my, so my, were friends in high school but not best friends until college and she's now a very famous actress. Amy Landecker, I don't know if you know Amy, but she was in the show Transparent, I don't know if you watch Transparent. It's a great show, yeah. And then do you watch Your Honor with Bryan Cranston? I don't think so. Mm-mm. Should we? Okay, let's check it out. No, but I, everyone keeps telling me I need to watch that show. Okay. Okay. Right, right, right. Okay. Now I have to, because everyone says I got to check out that show. Yeah.

She's married to Bradley Whitford, but I don't want to just be like, she's married to Bradley Whitford. No, she's a very accomplished actress. So we were, yeah. Yeah. So we were best friends throughout the four years ⁓ and we had lots of fights, but yes, she's my sister. Yes. Yeah. And you guys are still friends. That's cool. So then junior year, did you guys ditch the house? No more seven girls in the house. Yeah, I don't know if you guys went through this, but I feel like, so sophomore year is when the whole like deadhead revival thing happened, like the fake deadhead. Yeah, but you know what I mean? was, you were deadheads. You are deadheads. we went through it. We're deadheads. We are deadheads. I don't know. Can you see the cassettes? I don't know if he can see them. Probably not. No, but I don't see like a tapestry, paisley tapestry behind you. don't... Of course you did, yes. Okay. We had that at one point in our lives. So yeah, we joined in that hard. We've probably seen over a hundred dead concerts. So if you combine Jerry Garcia and all that, but we that would have been like our sophomore year in high school when we started going to say it started earlier. Yeah. Or before college. Like we were that would have been one eighty. We were born in seventy one. Yeah. Okay. are we the same age? ⁓ okay, right, so that makes sense, yeah. You were like a Jew. You were senior. were a sophomore. guess. Yeah. Well, it did start in earnest then they really came out with a what was it? Touch of Grey in 1986, which then just blew up.

You were like a Jew. You were senior. were a sophomore. guess. Yeah. Well, it did start in earnest then they really came out with a what was it? Touch of Grey in 1986, which then just blew up. Yeah You know what? my god. You were right because now I'm flashing back to my ex-boyfriend who was so cool in high school and he had all these tie-dye shirts he was selling. He was so entrepreneurial and I was such a dork and I wasn't cool around him. You're right. It was high school where it started. Maybe that's why I hate the dead. Yeah, it started in high school and... maybe. Hey, listen, now, a lot of people don't like the dead. ⁓ It's an acquired taste. It's an acquired... and I think... I blame the mushrooms that didn't work the first time I went. think that, yeah. There you go. You gotta try them again. No, no, yeah. Did you ever go to a show? I did, so sophomore year, our house got divided very quickly into hardcore deadheads and that. And I remember these people would bring people back from the concerts to live off our food and our money. And they had names that were not real and they were down on capitalism, but they were not down against using our money. And I just remember that when I would hear the bells on the ankles, I was like, shit. Yeah ⁓ that's Yeah, that's hilarious. No. Yes, I'm dying. I wore those. I wore those belts on that's the goal. And you know. Yeah, probably. No, but it was all hypocrisy, right? Because we all came from like families with money, usually. We weren't struggling and or like trustafarian kids. And everyone was like, no, you know, rebelled against that. was all just so we have a listener who said it was pick me. We were like the first pick me. I don't know if you've heard that term pick me.

You rent our house! Yes. Exactly. Now. Yeah. ⁓ huh. That's hilarious. pick me? Yeah, pick me? Yeah, I'm a pick me girl for my son. Actually, that's what I joke about. Yeah, I'm like right here, love me. Yeah, I mean, like a pick pick me girl. Yeah, there you go. So yeah, yeah, exactly. Madison was like, well, they used to have the 420 fest in Madison, right? The big smokers. Yeah, they started there. massive. Oh, Harvestfest, yeah. Here's the thing, I was in a weird position. I was a hippie who hated the dead. I liked Crosby, Stills, and Nash. That was my jam. So I was a hippie. I think it was the people that I came encounter with kind of killed it for me. But also, you have to admit, it is, and I'm music nerd, like I love music, but it is a jam band. You have to like jam bands. And the drugs do help. And for whatever reason, mine did not work when I went to that one concert and there was like, Yes. ⁓ same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Huge storm and we were sleeping in mud and I was like, so I don't, I don't know. But I wanna be clear, I totally respect them and I get it. No, but I do. The music's good. It's just, it comes with such a price tag. And I don't, I'm not a jam band. Ugh. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ no, no, no. I get it. Trust me. Yeah. Yeah. No, but you have to like Jam Band. have to like the people. I'm with you, though. The people I love the music. I feel like I was going to church and then it all ended. But the people were driving me crazy there at the end. 100 percent. Yeah. And it still happens. We go see Dead Cover Band. There's one place in our town and our our kids are dead heads. So we go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so cute!

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so cute! It's yeah, it's It's we love that. Right. But they're still like as adults, like asshole deadheads, like everyone's trying to be like, I'm more deadhead than you. It's like, stop. But they were like that then, you know. Yeah. I'm so glad you said that. That's what it was. When those people with the ankle bracelets chiming around. There was a holier than thou, some kind of spiritual superiority. And I'm like, what? And I just, it was bullshit. And so it is unfortunate because I don't think I've ever, because I'll find myself singing some of the songs. I'm like, fuck, it's a good song. I'm like, just let it in. Yes. ⁓ Yes. ⁓ It was such bullshit. No, but it makes sense. makes it. Yeah, he called him the users, but it was just like just pseudo just fakeness. And it was all this clout crap. And you could never be hippie enough or hardcore enough or deadhead enough. it was was dumb. Trust me. I get it. And in Ashland, which was such a hippie town, it was like everyone's competing to be the most like granola that you can. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. They're like meme girls. They're granola meme girls. I'm like, I know you people. I went to middle school with you. You just have armpit hair now. That's the only thing. So between that, Yes. Yeah. Yes. You're right. Who smells funny with bells on your ankle. Yeah. Yes. That's hilarious. I love that. it. We agree with everything you're saying. What's funny is we really love the music. Like, we really love the music. But no, the scene, you know, and sometimes you see them like we weren't really into fish. Yes, and he was eating all my food.

Yes, and he was eating all my food. We saw fish, this is an interesting story, I think, at our school there was a... What was it like? It's called the Brit Ballroom. The Brit Ballroom, it's like the size of like a cafeteria in a middle school with a stage. And we saw fish there and there was only a hundred of us. It was when fish first started. And that was the only time we've seen fish. We're like, it's never gonna get better than this. Everyone was on mushrooms. And ⁓ they were just on this like stage where you would put on a play in middle school. Yeah. Mm-hmm. wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. and there was a keg and it was cool. So we're like great. We never got into the fish scene and I know there's a whole asshole scene there. think everywhere every scene. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So but yeah, that makes sense because you had that going on in your house and then you had an ex-boyfriend that was into it. So the dead has a lot of negative connotations for you. There's assholes everywhere, exactly. I'm have to rewire. I mean, it does help that John Mayer, even though he's a total slut, but I mean, get that all these professional, why they're drawn to it. I will revisit it, I will wear a mustache and a wig so nobody knows. Like, you hate the dead. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's a cash engine, right? It's a cash engine for these guys now. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. But you know, it also was going on. ⁓ I mean, this was more. Yeah, this was when we were when we were in college was grunge was also taking over. Yeah. Yeah. Did you hop on that early when it came out? Because we missed it. We got it later. Yeah.

yeah, the Sphere in Vegas. Have you guys done that? Yeah. That was me. I was like, yes. It just wasn't... Yeah, yeah, no. I loved it. It was like, it was a great reaction to all that dead stuff too, you know? To me, the Grateful Dead movement was toxic positivity. It was oppressive. And this was just angry and like mud honey and just badass and the stoogey, like all that stuff. I was so into it. And I remember when... Yeah, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Nirvana happened. was like, what is this? You know, that was right out of college. Yeah. Yeah, yes, I'll never forget hearing them. Yeah, well, they were the authentic to the fake positivity or the toxic positivity. They were the authenticity and it was so refreshing. Yeah. No, it was all of that whole scene and that movie Singles. always I tell my kids Singles and Reality Bites are the two movies if you really want to know what it was like for us in our early 20s, mid 20s. That was it. ⁓ Yes. Yes. Yes, exactly. It was, yeah. yeah! Thousand percent. Yeah. my god, reality bites. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, those those two movies. that music and what's funny is I feel like kids now are really looking at the whole grunge scene in the 90s, like how we looked at the 60s and the music from the 60s. I know because I feel like that was 10 years ago. Which is crazy to me, yeah. Why don't, exactly. I know how crazy it was when he like, that was 50 years ago. You're like, no.

Which is crazy to me, yeah. Why don't, exactly. I know how crazy it was when he like, that was 50 years ago. You're like, no. No, there's no way. but I mean, and think about it, when we were in college, and we were doing all these things, going to concerts, whatever, there were no cell phones. It was more like, meet me at the that one light post, you know, in an hour, and you were hoping you'd find your people or anything social you wanted to do. If you weren't home with the landline, you're just like hoping you're going to meet, run into your friends that spot in Aity, and they don't have that now. loved it. Yeah. No, and they have no need to leave the house ever between video games and cell phones. Yeah, no, I'm so grateful that we had that time where we could be fully present and there were those moments of where everything just kind of came together. It just worked out. just worked out. it was just... And we lived to tell about it. Yeah, it was the universe. The universe would just instead of you'd have to work at it, plan it, text about it. And no one had 24-7 access to you, you know, which they do now. And I think that time, I don't know about for you, but... Yes! Yes. No, just happened. That was when raves were starting too, right? And for us, I think it was like our junior year college. I feel like that was right out of college that they started. Yeah, yeah, like train spotting and all that stuff was at my 20s. Yeah, but the rave culture and San Francisco, warehouse raves. I was already an adult way too soon, so I didn't go to any of that stuff. What are you calling it? Yeah. Yeah, no, we didn't go but I know ecstasy was starting then like up until then it had just been pot and

What are you calling it? Yeah. Yeah, no, we didn't go but I know ecstasy was starting then like up until then it had just been pot and ⁓ We got into the ecstasy my junior year. We used to have ecstasy parties at our house. ⁓ Again, with the girls. Yes, yes. ⁓ There were a lot of drugs. I I only ever wanted to do hippie drugs. To this day, I've never done cocaine. I'm like, I'm good, I'm really hyper. Yeah, yeah. Just weed, shrooms, and LSD once. I felt nothing, thank God. And I'm like, I'm too scared of LSD. That's not. Okay. At the house with the girls? That's Madison. Madison was a little ahead of the curve in many ways. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Same. We haven't either. And then, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I have been tripping your ass off and didn't know it. I'm sober. And then for us, we smoke cigarettes and now it's vaping. And I would trade it. I would rather see kids smoking cigarettes and vaping. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I might have, yeah! Yeah, exactly. yeah, yeah. Yeah, then crystallize their lungs. By the way, I don't know about you guys, but I I love smoking. It's the greatest thing in the world. And I ⁓ obviously quit it because I want to live. But ⁓ I've told my son, like, smoking. know, I'm just every time I see a smoker and like, if he only knew. My stepdad just found some old photo album. I have no idea where this came from. Somebody put an album together of me from college. I am smoking in every photo, you know? No, that's funny. It was so accepted. could smoke in restaurants still. You could smoke in bars, airplanes. You could still do that then. Even in like in the early 90s, you could still do that. What'd you smoke? Camel light?

If you saw that... Airplanes. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I did some camelites, marlboro lights, um, what was it, an American spirit came out, you know? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Ridiculous. yeah. yeah. Trying to go natural and healthy, The drum roll your own so you're really healthy. ⁓ yeah, we did that too. are rough on They double as rolling joints. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you do any study abroad programs? Yes. Yeah. I did, ⁓ and I have to say what's so sick about nicotine is I'm salivating. So for anybody watching or listening, it is a highly addictive drug. Okay, all right, I some gum. Here, I'll just gnaw on this pizza crust. ⁓ Yeah, so when the house finally exploded and then Amy and I with the one, we still had a sorority girl in the group, Maria, it was so funny. I don't know what she liked about us, but. ⁓ Yeah. It is. It is. Yeah. the three of us ended up getting like a really posh, I don't know why, these developers built these like nice condos, you know? And then it was like we had a reaction to all that, so we moved in there and still kept doing ecstasy. But anyway, so yeah, I went to Italy abroad back when people could afford to do that. And it was amazing. Yeah. Did they go with you? Well, Amy and I had a very codependent relationship where I would pull back quite a bit and I'm like, how much do I talk about this? We had a lot of conflict. I think she would agree with that. So I was like, I'm going to Sienna. You can't go to Sienna. So she went to Florence. Could we be any more basic bougie bitches? So we were both in Italy at the same time, but we in different cities. And I'm like, I'm having my experience. You have yours. So we saw each

No way. Okay. That's actually really healthy communication at that age with a friend. A lot of young women struggle with communicating with their friends. A lot of women would struggle communicating with their friends. So the fact that you guys could do that, it's pretty evolved. Yeah. That's true. You're right. I will... Yes. We are. We have... We are... Say it again? Yeah, we didn't go together. We've had our... You know the movie Beaches? Like, we've had our moments. But we will... Like, when the times are really tough, if we really need a hand, I call her. She calls me. Like, nobody knows me better. Nobody knows her better. Like, it's... Yeah, take that. And you're still friends today. Yeah. That's pretty good. Probably because you didn't go together. Probably because you didn't go to Italy together. Yeah, right. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, at a certain point with an adult friendship like that, I think we all hit these crossroads like, well, what are we doing? Are we splitting up? And we had a very clear moment in my 30s, in our 30s, and ⁓ we both decided, I don't know if we articulated it, but it's like, we're, this is, come on. Anyway, so yeah, she was in, yeah. I, Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Were you alone? Where you went? Did you do this all on your own? No, did, it was a program, so I lived with a family and there was a group of us and so of course there were horrible dynamics within the group. Groups suck, that's really what it comes down to. It is impossible to have a healthy group. ⁓ Yeah, I got pregnant there, that was fun. ⁓ Yeah, I was very, from an Italian, my American boyfriend was not real happy. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. No way. From an Italian? An Italian person? Wow.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. No way. From an Italian? An Italian person? Wow. I was a very busy girl. had a lot of fun in college and I was very fertile and very stupid and you know what's so funny when you're older and I don't know about you guys but I'm trying to do the math. I I waited till the last possible biological moment to have my son so I was dancing on the edge of oh maybe I waited too long you know and then you have to time it and when I'm re-ovulating and well you have a fifth but back then it was like pregnant pregnant. Right. Right. And it's like, ooh, it's such bad luck. No, you're ovulating. The body is designed to make you horny and irresponsible in that moment. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. And you were in Italy. So just it's like, it's a trifecta. You weren't going to that battle. And the ecstasy is the love drug, right? Yes. yeah. Yeah, it was bound to happen. Yes. Interestingly enough though, I feel like the ecstasy is a cuddle drug. I don't feel like it's a sex drug. That's, yeah. Yeah. And I'd love to blame it on the ecstasy, Brian, but it was just me. Yeah. ⁓ ⁓ Interesting. That would make sense. That would make sense. So, ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Did you come home when you found out you were pregnant? No, I, the man I was involved with there was in love with me and wanted me to stay in with the baby and marry him. And I'm like, I have to get home and graduate and I'm gonna make movies. I'm a film major. Like, no, no, bro. ⁓ So I did have an abortion there and ⁓ I had had one here in the States. It was traumatic. And so. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. If you can believe it, actually have a comedy set around this, which is very funny, but I will not tell you the funny version now, obviously. I thought, I am so screwed. I'm pregnant in Italy? Like, Italy? The most conservative? I don't wanna say it was the best experience of my life, but they treated me like, it was just interesting. It was like, it was so human, or humane, and I don't know, they put you under, I don't know, does anybody, Yeah. watches this or listens this, wants to hear this, I have no idea. ⁓ ⁓ it's cool. No, I think that there's women that ⁓ this would resonate with. Okay, so it was like crazy how nice they were to me as opposed to here where the guy was like, why is she crying? I'll never forget that, the guy that did it here, you So. Yeah. my gosh. my gosh. No, it's I... That's amazing they put you under. That's wonderful. and kept you there all day in a hospital room. Yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing. I've talked in my I did my story on one of our episodes and I did share I also had an abortion ⁓ when I was 22, not Brian, other boyfriend. And ⁓ I will say the doctor was nice, but it was it was incredibly rushed, sterile. did go to a doctor's office, but it was just very like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK, you did it and then you went home. I looking back now as a 54 year old, I shouldn't have just gone home and life shouldn't just like continued on the way that hospital stay would have been amazing just to have that moment, you know, because it's not a positive experience no matter what. It's not like something that you're like, yeah, I get to go do this. So the fact that they made this as they were gentle with you and as you said, humane and honored. No. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

No. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. your experience for you is amazing. know, yeah. Yeah. Because there's always I mean, I don't know about you, but even being pro choice and all that there's still some shame to what you're like for me. I wasn't like, I wasn't proud of what I was doing, right? I was I was actually mad at myself. And like, how did I get myself in like, and I know how I did. Yeah, it was it was a shock to me, you know. So. Of course, no. Yeah, you feel stupid. Yes. Yeah. But you feel stupid. you don't need more people making you feel that way. So it sounds like they didn't make the situation any worse and actually help make it a little bit better for you. So that's really cool. thousand percent and yeah I was just like where am I this is bizarre so Yeah. Did your parents know? Like, did you reach out to your parents? No, that's a fun story. So I got back from Italy. Well, actually first then my American boyfriend came to visit me and I thought I could just pretend this didn't happen. And of course I broke down in tears and like, I have to tell you something. So that was fun. So that was a love triangle. We traveled through Southern Italy together fighting and crying and having sex. And then we had to go back to Siena because I owed a paper to get my 16 credits and then. Yeah. Did you guys stay together? ⁓ My then boyfriend was so upset, he came to the window, he's like, Julia! Like it was so crazy, it was very dramatic, it was very dramatic. You couldn't wish for more out of a trip to Italy, frankly. mean, it's, it's, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely sounds memorable. And did the Italian guy disappear or was he also chasing you?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely sounds memorable. And did the Italian guy disappear or was he also chasing you? He wanted to stay in touch and it's funny, my mother, that's the only man she's ever met. They came to visit me and that she loved. It was so interesting. I don't know what it was about Bob. Just gonna call him Bob. ⁓ There must have been something about him. He was lovely, he was a lovely guy. but you know, I have avoidant attachment, like 20, like this isn't happening, bro. Like, you have no idea where I've been raised. But he was very sweet and we stayed in touch over the years. And then once I got married and had a kid and he was Facebook Messenger, mirroring to me, I'm like, no, I think we need to, yeah. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, be done with that. So then when did you when you got back, did you share with your parents? Yeah, so I went to the gynecologist with my mom, a twofer, I don't know, like she was seeing her, and then I went in, and this is so crazy. We went and had lunch afterwards, and she said, so why didn't you tell me that you had an abortion in Italy? I'm like, what? The doctor told you? Like, that's illegal. Did the doctor tell her? Wow. And you weren't underage or anything. You were an adult. Was HIPAA a thing then? I don't remember. I don't know. That's crazy. HIPAA didn't roll around until the early 2000s. Yeah. So I don't know. It maybe wasn't illegal. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes! So crazy. No, yeah. I'm pretty sure. I don't know. We don't remember anything. Yeah. Yeah, it was crazy. It wasn't illegal. All right, well it was super shitty. So I had to assure my mom it was okay. And like, let me tell about the 20 other ones. Just kidding, I'm joking. It's a joke.

Yeah. It could be like, but there could be 20 more, there's not. Don't you feel better about that? Okay, so. No, exactly, exactly. I mean, knowing my mom, she was probably relieved, frankly, because I think she looks at her life as having a kid so young and derailed so much for her. anyway. Right. Right. So yeah, I could see that. I could see both sides of that. So that was your junior year when all this went on. Yeah. Junior year abroad, then came back senior year, and I really sound like I was a troublemaker. I really wasn't. I was pretty middle of the road Madison, Wisconsin gal. ⁓ But anyway, yeah. I was Jen Axe, exactly, we can just say that. You were Gen X. we remember that like we were crazy as we were 30 when we were 10. And we just took that energy and vibe through high school through college. And once we were out, we just like we're chaos like Tasmanian Devil. like doing all the things and not thinking at all, because that's how we were raised. Yes. Yes. Yes, yes. How about, yes, how about age 14, I'm in bars, I don't know about you guys, like bars, age 14. I looked like an adult, had my fake ID, like kids don't look older now. Yeah. Yeah. We had like in our town, they would have warehouses and they would have like teen clubs and we'd go to that. But everyone was drinking and smoking clove cigarettes. You remember clove cigarettes? Oh, Yeah. And so it's like, I just can't even picture my kids doing. I was I think I was 13. Everything you've described so far sounds totally normal to me. Yeah, we're all like, yeah. never let any of my kids do it. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. yeah. Yeah. Gross. Yeah. No, no, my... Yeah. Okay, good. No, exactly! And I don't need my son to know any of this. Whoops! No. Does he know anything? If he watches, will he be like, my God, mom.

Does he know anything? If he watches, will he be like, my God, mom. ⁓ I'm... it's fine. I mean... He is old enough. I mean, I don't have him come to comedy shows, you know? ⁓ He's old enough. Yeah. Yeah. It's as needed at the age appropriate time, knowledge at the age appropriate. It's not like she's going to be like, look at this episode I did. You know, she'll share it when you feel he's ready. So. forward to the abortion story. You'll like that. And how it was. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Well see, I would want him to know that. I would want him to know that, you know? There's like this feminist in me that's like... Anyway, I feel like I don't have a problem sharing facts about my life with him, but by the time I'm on stage doing it, it's so... I think it would be very upsetting to see your parent... It doesn't make sense, do you know what I mean? Like, why is she making fun of this painful experience about... Yeah. ⁓ Right. herself. just also half my yeah half my stuff is about him so that he can't see that. Yeah. It's nuanced and they have to be. Yeah, they have to be with the right age to get all that. So then your senior year you were in Madison, back in Madison. Yep, back in Madison and, Yeah. yeah, we had another epic. Just... It was bad, man. I don't it's really crazy what we've been through. I remember our biggest fight was I have always loved to cook and serve people food and... whatever, and Did you live with Amy again? And I made this incredible meal for her. And to this day, when I get mad at my son when he's not eating, I remember this fight when she wasn't coming out of her room. And I'm like, you get out here and eat this meal now! It was so crazy. We were like an old married couple.

you my, was it just the two of you that year? Or did you have other people? Okay. Yes, and I was full into the film world at that point. She had become a theater person, so we were in different ⁓ worlds. They didn't have a film major, but they had com arts, so yes, I was a film head my whole plan. I made horrible 16 millimeter films, and she was my muse. She was always in them, and they really were horrible. ⁓ Was that your major? And yeah, screenwriting, all that stuff. And then my big plan was I was gonna move to New York and be this guerrilla filmmaker and I moved to LA. We'll be back after the break. Sorry, just kidding. Now, why did you decide to to LA? So you graduated, you moved to LA. Why did you decide to move to LA? ⁓ so I graduated, I started working in Chicago as a PA. Also, by the way, back then, do you remember getting out of college and you had to find a job? There was no like internet, like I opened the yellow pages and looked under film. I, how did any of us do anything? Yep. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. No. Yeah. If you left your market where your parents maybe had some connections, you were on your own. Yeah. Classified ads, yellow pages, hit the street. Classified. I remember that. Circling the jobs. Walking into these businesses and be like, can I fill out an application? Just going to the next business. Yeah. And they wait for them to call your landline and leave a message on your answering machine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. answering machine. If they wouldn't. Yes. Yeah, it's crazy. You know what's crazy, and I know this is a nonlinear moment, but I don't know about your kids, my son is obsessed with the 80s and I don't know why.

If they wouldn't. Yes. Yeah, it's crazy. You know what's crazy, and I know this is a nonlinear moment, but I don't know about your kids, my son is obsessed with the 80s and I don't know why. Yeah, I think that's a thing right now. A lot of kids, yeah, the 80s and the 90s. They think that time was like magical and nothing bad was happening. They romanticized it. Yeah. Well, we were all having fun, but we probably were so used to blocking out any risks. We were like, it's all fine. Everything's fine. Let's just go. Is it? It's so funny. It was a pretty good time, wasn't it? I don't know. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I don't know if we blocked it out as much as we just it wasn't there or we didn't care our parents weren't in heads like we are true true with our kids Yes, I mean my son believes there is danger around every corner because I told him that was the case. Yeah. It's so funny because I think Gen Xers have anxiety from the parental neglect, but our kids have anxiety that we've put in them of fear. So we both have anxiety, but for two different reasons. You know, so. yeah. Totally. My son is probably six feet tall, 160 pounds, and he's still terrified he's gonna be kidnapped and trafficked. I have a whole bit about it. And it's all because I told him when he was, I was just, how do I get him to not leave my side, you know? Yeah, yeah. Oh, we told our kids that I can't go to the bathroom. Like you guys are a hot commodity on the streets. Listen, they could get a lot of money for you. So just remember that. Unfortunately, that there's some truth to it. There is that. Well, that's you know, so you didn't go straight to LA. You went to Chicago after you graduated.

Yeah. Yes. So I went back to Chicago, know, live with my folks, they were on vacation, I opened up the yellow pages, like film, film, I don't even know how, but I found the first production in Chicago, and I will say this about Gen X, like we get shit done. I was like, I will figure this out. So I found a production, I called them, just cold call, I went in, I was like, you gotta hire me, you know, and they hired me as an. Wow. That's awesome. an intern and then they got in trouble and they're like, we have to pay you. like, you don't have to. And like, no, we have to pay you. I'm like, okay. So I started off working for $250 a week as a locations assistant. I thought, this is amazing. You know, this is crazy that I'm getting paid to be on a movie set. And I'm pausing because I'm trying to figure out how much of the next part I want to tell you. So I'm going to tell you a shorter version. Okay. Well, this is the, uh, Yeah. Okay. So as much as I'm ⁓ love avoidant, I also fall in love really quickly. That might be the thing. So I've had a lot of relationships. I don't know if that was important. Okay, I'm on a movie set and I've fell in love with this guy. We moved in together. I moved in quickly with people. was like, let's, probably because, yes, I'm like, what's the big deal? Let's just get in place together. That's hilarious. my God. Yes. The moving. The moving. It's just moving. what you do. You move every... a deck and do some wallpaper. Yeah, you just, yeah. You should have been like, can you wallpaper? I'm kind of into that. That is hilarious. never, that's why I was like, yeah, what's the big deal? Let's cohabitate. ⁓ Lord. Yeah. Yeah.

That is hilarious. never, that's why I was like, yeah, what's the big deal? Let's cohabitate. ⁓ Lord. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so ⁓ hopefully you know this about me by now from the time you've been on the phone. If anything I'm saying feels too in the weeds or boring, you can just cut me off because I can get lost in the next chunk of details. just, okay. So I... Now go for it. My mom was a very big deal in Chicago at the time and she's like trying to help me out with her connections and the only connection she had was with like this insurance guy. I'm like, this is my Hollywood connection? I am so screwed. But what I didn't realize is he insured and bonded all the films in Hollywood. Like it was actually a big, I just didn't even know about that role. Cool. And then he introduced me to this like real estate mogul in town again. I'm like, I'm not gonna get anywhere but it turns out he was financing movies in Hollywood. So we became fast friends. He used to fly me around in his private jet and yeah, anyway, sure. Yeah, yeah, no, I was 21. Yep, was a little crazy and yeah. That's nice. So what were you in like your early 20s being or was this in your 20s on a private jet? Nice. So you're living with the new guy and flying on a private jet. Yeah, I can't imagine that was fun for New Guy, because Jet Guy was very rich, very handsome, and single. that was, I did, but not in the way you would suspect. ⁓ did you move in with them or no? ⁓

Yeah, I can't imagine that was fun for New Guy, because Jet Guy was very rich, very handsome, and single. that was, I did, but not in the way you would suspect. ⁓ did you move in with them or no? ⁓ So ⁓ he kept trying to, he got me a job as a PA in some movie and I went off and did that and then finally he's like, well if you want to come out to LA, you can be my assistant, you can live in the guest house on my estate and you can work for me. I was like, let's go. So my poor boyfriend at the time drove with me out to LA. I still feel bad about, ⁓ yeah. And no, he just drove with me. Yeah. Nice. Yes. No way. Wait, he moved too? The boyfriend moved? my gosh, how nice. He still has some artwork of my mother's. She was very pissed about that. Because I never went back to Chicago, so whatever was in that apartment was gone. ⁓ So I did. I lived in the guest house on this estate. It was crazy. And I worked for him at this company as an assistant. ⁓ Right. What should I say about him? He was a very challenging boss. Do ever see like Swimming with Sharks? Kevin Spacey? No. Well, any cliche you have about Hollywood. I began my journey in all of that toxicity. So yeah, I was an assistant and then... No. Okay. Okay. I got bumped up ridiculously fast. We started a new company and all of a sudden I was a very fancy executive. I was, I think I was 22 or 23. Yeah, I mean, it's a young town. Like they don't like you older with experience here. They like their executives really young. But anyway, we were starting this whole... And how old were you? Wow. Yeah.

And how old were you? Wow. Yeah. I mean, here, I'm looking away and I'm skirting the issue. Something did happen between us, I will just say that. And I was so naive at the time, I thought, oh, he's gonna be my boyfriend. I didn't understand. I thought I was like, Maria from The Sound of Music. No, turns out no, I was gonna be a secret. So I I cut that off immediately before, you know, and then, but I did work for him for quite some time. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And then did you have to move out of the guest house, I assume, when you cut that off? So did you move into alone then, into a place out there? I did, yes. Yes. Yeah, then I got a little studio out in the hills ⁓ in Beachwood Canyon and I was happy because it was a new place. I was like, new place, yay! Exactly. ⁓ New place! Hey, there's a theme. So this would have been during the, what, the mid 90s? It was right after the riots I moved out to LA. I remember that because there was a store on Melrose. It was called Great Balls of Fire. ⁓ obviously somebody thought it was funny and it had burned to the ground. It was like half burned. And that is burned in my memory, you know? wow. Yeah, okay. Yeah, Yeah. That was the heart of the riots too, think that area, right? Melrose area. Yes, yes. And then OJ happened right after. that's when I, yeah, that was wild. ⁓ I was there, man, I was there. And then we had our first earthquake. And I was like, hell no, I'm leaving LA, and I didn't. And they say if you get through your first earthquake, do they have earthquakes in Portland?

wow. You were there in the heyday of all that. Yeah. No, I don't think we well, nothing. I think when we were when I lived up there, too, at the time, there were they would happen, but they were like in the middle of the night and they were minor. Yeah, you didn't feel like what you guys went. No, no, Or like San Francisco. What was it? The 90s? Yeah, there was the big one. That was yeah. In the 80s. Yeah. Yeah. No, we didn't have that. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was wow. You had a lot happen. Okay. Okay, yeah. Right. Yeah. So this was the Northridge? Does Northridge earthquake mean anything to you? Okay. So I was there for that. was... Yeah, and I stayed. You a lot. A lot. That's the good thing about being Gen X. We've all had a lot. ⁓ Exactly. ⁓ Well, the good thing is I thought I had... Anyway. Do I legally... No, I can say whatever I want. Okay. Yeah. ⁓ True, true. And as long as you just keep moving, you're I remember you can sleep on it. You can sleep on it too. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think it's interesting because I think I wrote about this. This was the pre-MeToo movement time. know, this was... I find this an interesting period of my life because I was raised by this incredibly... Yeah. know, ball-busting feminist mother, but she had also come up in the kind of Don Draper madman time. So I can only imagine what she had to put up with as she was coming up, you know? So on the one hand, she taught me never to rely on a man for anything. So I just was like, great. And I married men with no money my whole life. And she's like, that's not what I meant. Like you said, never rely on men with money. But she'd been so burdened from my grandfather and all that stuff. So, so. Yeah. Yeah. you Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. you Yeah. I don't know, was, I think we were like a misinformed feminist generation where we were taught, know, don't look vulnerable, don't be shrill, don't cry, don't get upset, you look hysterical. So you just shoved everything down. And... Definitely. Anyway, so this is all to say when I wanted to raise he'd be like come to my house at 10 o'clock at night and I wouldn't go, you know, was a lot of stuff like that. And then at one point I'm like, he hadn't done that in a while and I thought, oh, I've aged out. This is fantastic. I think I was 26 or 27. I was like, yes. And you had moved down to other assistant types. Anyway. Yeah. my god. But then we had a meeting at the Four Seasons and afterwards, and I was like his executive vice president at that point, and he lunged for me for a kiss and I was like, what are you doing? And I looked for another job the next day. So I left soon after that. And then I, was that the worst experience I had? Wow. Yeah. Was that the worst? Were there any other situations that you came across like that? That was the worst sexual harassment, right? I guess it's vague because we were involved. You all know how that would go down if I ever said anything. I didn't want to. I just wanted to get away from him. ⁓ But then as I progressed in Hollywood, I experienced other forms of discrimination, which even now as I say it, I'm like, I feel like I'm whining. But it was bad. It was bad. Yeah. Well, what just because. ⁓

Yeah. Well, what just because. ⁓ Like there were things like this said to me. I usually just pull these two out and then the picture is painted. ⁓ There was a director I was working for. I think I was executive vice president of production at the time. I sent notes on his cut and I wasn't there when he said it so I don't know if he actually said it but it almost doesn't matter but supposedly or allegedly he got the notes in a fax machine paper coming out and was so upset he started to jump up and down and say I'm gonna chop her head off and ⁓ I Yeah. I should just do the trigger warning. I'm so used to this. ⁓ I'm gonna chop her head off and fuck her dead corpse. ⁓ Yeah. And the craziest part about that, it was told to me by my boss at the time, who thought it was so funny, and then kept telling that story in front of people with me at the table, and I just had to laugh about it, you know? And it's crazy! What the hell? That was okay! It is, it is. Yes. my god. It's crazy. It's actually trauma. It's trauma. And it's repeated exposure to trauma. And we can go talk about the patriarchy and all that, but it's just the way women have been treated and even through the Gen X women. And the Gen X women, I think, just grinded through, just compartmentalized, took it, took it. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yep. And I think it's another reason, like with our children, especially we have a daughter is the Gen Z women do not put up with shit. yes, and I, I think it's because the Gen X women had to. And we were like, no, we're changing this. guess what we're going to give you? The Gen Z women have fun with that. You know, because something had to change. Yes. Yeah. Is it still like that? Do you think or, or has me to.

Yes. Yes. Which I love. Yes. Thousand percent. Yep. Yep. Yeah. No, I mean, thank God for the Me Too movement, you know? I don't know, at any time. No, no, it really, revolutionized things. Because of social media, you you could get canceled very fast now. Sorry, go on. Yeah, cool. Well, and that was that was. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was that the Me Too movement. Wasn't that a lot of Gen X? Would you say women? Was it Ashley Judd, Gen X? She started it. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Rose McGowan, she's Gen X. So I think I think the Gen X women spurts finally were like, fuck this. We're done. Yeah, they're the ones. They broke. Yeah. Yeah. If I had stayed as an executive, I would have been with them. I... I mean, what was... The other story I usually tell is, we were in a boardroom meeting and I laughed at some man's expense who was like 20 years older than me. He's like, you think that's funny, you stupid fucking bitch? And everybody laughed about it. Like, if that happened today, you'd get fired. And... Yes! Yes! Yeah, I can't even imagine that I work in a corporate environment and that that's just not happening. No dude is walked out. Yeah. Exactly! Oh no, was all very like, and then the other, this is, this is a little more on the funny side, this is a little more on the Austin Power side, but at the time I was trying to disentangle myself, I think I can say that safely, legally from the company, and trying to figure out what leverage I had to get out of the company and protect myself, um, and at the same time, I had, um, Yeah.

Yeah. The head of the company was really good friends with a very famous musician. And this is not going where you think it is. That's what's funny about this story. Musician's fine. Innocent, whatever. I will tell you when we're not on this call who it was. ⁓ Okay. ⁓ But anyway, really the head of the company had such a secret fantasy of being a rock star that like he forced all the employees to rehearse in a fake band with him after work with, yes, to perform at the holiday party. This is a funny and charming story until we get to the next part. I was very busy. I was executive vice president of production. I was also trying to figure out some pretty big pieces going on at the company, if you catch my drift. ⁓ No. ⁓ No. my god. Yes. And he was pressuring me to come rehearse and I'm like, I'm not doing it. He's like, come on, you just, I'm sorry, it's so bad that it's funny. All you have to do is you'll have a tambourine and you just shake your boobies. ⁓ my god. ⁓ my god. And he has no idea what he's saying. Like, it's totally fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. None. Yeah. It was in the hallway. It was in the hallway. It was just funny. Just having a laugh. And yeah. Yes. Thank God. Thank God all of that has changed, you know, and it is and it isn't just in the work area because talking about social media, you know, you can be filmed anywhere now. Yeah. And so everyone is can be held accountable. you know, and so everyone does suck for kids, though I do feel bad for our kids. You know, it was nice to be able to smoke if you wanted to. Right. And back. You could get in trouble underage smoking or whatever. Yeah. Now it's Right. Yeah, agreed. Thousand percent, yeah. Yeah. it's... It keeps you out of college maybe. Yeah.

Right. Yeah, agreed. Thousand percent, yeah. Yeah. it's... It keeps you out of college maybe. Yeah. No, it's horrible. They have no idea when they're posting stuff. shouldn't, like... ⁓ No, no. And like I know that they say that Gen Z doesn't dance. You we all dance when we would go out, we dance and the millennials danced, but they don't dance when they go to bars and stuff. They just kind of, although I know my daughter and her friends well, but it's because they're like, we don't care, but it's not a group thing where everyone's doing it. And I think a lot of it's due to they don't want to get filmed and get it. So it makes them more inhibited, you know. So that part's bad. Yeah. ⁓ interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Uhhh, and mocked. Yeah. Eww. It's very sad. Yeah. Yeah. Like everything, I guess. It's good and bad. you can't, it stops some people from maybe outwardly doing completely inappropriate things because they might get filmed. But then the younger generation, it also can make them more inhibited. but thank God. So now in the industry, would you say is completely different than when you first were there in your 20s? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah? yeah, I mean, well, I'm out of that game, you know, but absolutely. So I went from that to being a screenwriter, which I didn't experience any of that, which was lovely. ⁓ And then don't know, it... And then... Okay.

Okay. Then I moved into reality TV and that was when I returned to the corporate world and I hadn't been in it for so long and that's when I was suddenly like, you're saying, Brian, like, I'm like, whoa, like there's, there are rules and paperwork. If anything, I'm worried. I'm going to joke around too much. You know, like it was, but yes, I had never met an H that is so funny. I'm just realizing we never had HR. You couldn't have had it back then. Right, right, right. There's the HR. Yeah. Yeah. And most people think HR is there for you. They're there for the company. They're to make sure execs don't do stupid shit, illegal shit, discriminatory things. Protect the company. When you were a screenwriter, did you sell any of your stuff? Right. Yes. Yep. Yep. I did, I sold features and pilots and you have not seen any of them because none of them got made. And ⁓ you can actually make a kind of decent living selling things and not having them made. But at a certain point if you don't get things made then they show you the door. ⁓ But it was during this period, sorry go on. that you were I was just saying that you were paid for what you wrote. I was paid for what I wrote, it was amazing, it felt amazing. I was sad and frustrated when it didn't take, you know? Like it didn't have the traction to really, but at the end I was always like, most people don't even get this. Like, this is good, you know? So, it was great. That's cool. Yeah. It must be interesting though to create something and there's no outlet for the production of it. So it kind of just exists, right?

That's cool. Yeah. It must be interesting though to create something and there's no outlet for the production of it. So it kind of just exists, right? Well that's my stand-up comedy, not to jump right to that, but it exists immediately. There's no notes? Well the notes are the audience. I mean yeah, there's the gatekeepers and whatever. This could be another five hour podcast on comedy, but I would just say yes. This comedy for me is a massive... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. sigh of relief after years of being an executive, after years of being a screenwriter, of years of being a reality TV producer. Like, it's just so pure. So what got you there into comedy? well let's see, reality, but I feel like was there something in reality? There were some shenanigans in reality TV still, I just wanna be clear. It's not perfect out there, I just wanna, I just. Did you work on any reality shows that that we know or that. that you would know? ⁓ Maybe. I did a lot of food stuff. Do you guys watch food stuff? Like American barbecue showdown? No? No, I think the closest would be ⁓ the chef one. I can't remember where they battle. They have to make stuff really fast. I don't even know the name of it. Yeah. Something. OK, but you did stuff like cooking stuff. Oh yeah. Yeah, I can't remember what that's called. Samurai? I don't know. Yeah. I did Docs. I did whatever. I mean was my third leg in the business and it was a fallback plan. A place to get paid to tell stories without healthcare and a decent wage. It's a great world. So yeah. Okay. Did you travel? Was it all in LA?

Okay. Did you travel? Was it all in LA? Sometimes I came up through post which means ⁓ Like writers basically get thrown into the post pile, you know, meaning ⁓ production side goes out and shoots the thing and then they hand the footage to post and I see you are musicians or musician musicians Okay. We attempt, none of us really do any of it well. We own enough instruments to have a band, but no one can play any of them. And they're not just for show. It's not for lack of trying. tried. Just completely suck. Yeah. None of us are artistic. Yeah. Yeah. They look, it looks good though. I find that hard to believe. Yeah. That could be that could be viral. The band that sucks. I like that. They look awesome. You have a beautiful setup. I did not even compliment you. I love the setup, the depth of field behind you, the plant, the, it's very nice. Yeah. thank you. Thank you. That means a lot because I know you have a lot of experience in this world. So thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, no, it's gorgeous. Do you like mine? The broken ceiling head fan that's missing a thing? It's very classy. good, yeah. Thank you for protecting me. We can't see that anymore because you moved. But I like, I like the kitties though. I love whenever they walk by. I love that.

We can't see that anymore because you moved. But I like, I like the kitties though. I love whenever they walk by. I love that. I know, and the little tail goes by. ⁓ So yeah, in post, it's almost like you're given a bunch of... musical notes and you make a song out of it. So they shoot something and then we take all of it and you build a script with scenes and words. And it's really interesting work. If they paid better and they had health insurance and it was unionized, it'd be a great job. But it was created as a union busting work alternative. So it will, in my opinion, will never, well now the whole town's over. I don't know how much of that you know about, but so, okay. So yes. Okay. Yeah. So how long did you do that, the reality? longer than I anticipated. I remember when I went into my first day and I felt like a failure, like I didn't hack it as a writer, you know, it was very embarrassing and they brought me my little cubbyhole. I'm like, cubbyhole? Like, it's come to this? You know, it was so demoralizing and my name was on it. I was like, whoa, whoa, you don't, you don't, I'm not, this is temporary. And the woman who brought me to the cubbyhole said, sure, and just walked away. wow. my gosh. Again, that could be in a movie. For real. my You're in a really, really tough industry, right? Just hyper competitive and just, it's crazy, really. I know. She was right. Yeah, it's... Yes. It is. I mean, on the one hand, I'm crazy that I stayed this long. On the other hand, I guess it's impressive that I found new ways to reinvent myself. I don't know. But, ⁓

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense though with your theme like starting over, starting over, starting over. So ⁓ it's all the moving. It's persistent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And determination. Let's be real. ⁓ yeah! my god, it's all the moving! ⁓ my god. Yes. Yeah. Do I have to pay you at the end of this? This is better than any therapist I've ever met. that's funny. So when you were done with reality TV, were you in your 30s by that point? No, no, I didn't start that until, so I had my son at 40, because I started, we started trying to have him at 36, and I'm always like this crazy old lady in the house who's like, you kids better freeze your eggs, you know, I'm like, what are you waiting for? Like, we're not even in a relationship. I'm like, I don't care. No, it's mostly the people, my friends who are married and they're young, I'm like, what are you, just, if you want them, just get on with it, trust me. So. Yeah. You Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I don't have any regrets because I don't have anything in my bucket list, like, so there's that. But obviously miscarriages, miscarriages, whatever. So by the time I finally had my kid 40 and I was still writing, and then, um, but I was running out of money, we were doing a short sale on our house, and the writer's strike had happened, and I had married a writer, it was like, not good. So, I was an early adopter of online dating, I'm glad you ask. Back, back when it was like, weird. Right, yeah. How did you meet your ex-husband? Which one? ⁓ I was on an app that I didn't realize was like a super sexual app. I thought it was just for interesting people. It was called nerve.com You I even heard of that, I don't even know.

⁓ I was on an app that I didn't realize was like a super sexual app. I thought it was just for interesting people. It was called nerve.com You I even heard of that, I don't even know. It's gone. It's gone. It shared an engine or whatever with the onion and other smarty pants. So I thought it was like, this is where the smarty pants go. Yeah. And I couldn't understand why I was getting so many dick pics. I'm like, what is wrong with this app? that's awesome. The Babylon B. Yeah. Sony fans now. Or that other one. There's another one now that's just for hooking up, but I can't remember what it's called. Maybe it might be. Yes, and that's not to... ⁓ Tinder? Tinder's actually become more of relationship thing now. think there's so much online porn, I don't even think hooking up is happening anymore. It's just all, everything's over. That's the end of the podcast, yeah. I was at the beginning, yes. I ⁓ met my first real... Yeah, I don't even know. Yeah. Yeah, I know. So, but so you you were like at the beginning of that whole. OK. Yeah, I had two big relationships. All my relationships are from the internet. Even this show is from the internet, so I guess I have to thank it. You guys are from the internet for me. Yeah, so we met there, and that's not to suggest he was on there for that reason. Well, maybe he was, I don't know. No, I don't think so. Anyway, it was very sweet, and we fell in love, whatever. What was this question? ⁓ How we met, yeah, that, we met there. ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ How you guys met? And so how long from the time you guys met when you got married?

Yeah. ⁓ How you guys met? And so how long from the time you guys met when you got married? Not long. Yeah, not long. I was 35, so was like, chop chop. Yeah, he's also, he likes to be married. He's a guy that likes to be, you know, he likes, he was, yes. And so he was not one of these like commitment-phobe dudes and. So within a year. Was he married before you? Okay. I'd always gone in threes like asshole asshole nice guy asshole asshole nice guy so he was like the nice guy after two assholes and and he was really nice and Yeah, so we got married and very fast and then of course started to try and have the babies very fast and This is what I try and explain to young people if you're listening Miscarriages take a long time you have to recover and then you have to wait and as the years go by it's like then I had an Yeah. How long, I actually never had a miscarriage. I know, know, I know. I do feel very, very lucky. But how long do you have to wait after you had one to try again? you're so lucky. Yeah. I don't remember the exact time, it was a, it feels like it was a couple months or something. it, your body has to recover. I don't recall. The real time suck though was ⁓ they thought the reason I was having so many miscarriages ⁓ was because of fibroid tumors. That's a sexy topic brought to you by fibroid tumors. okay. Were yours pain? You know about them. How many? Yeah. I've had them. Yeah. I know about them. He knows about them. do. Yeah. Yeah. I feel cultured. Did you have painful ones? Were you like bleeding and stuff?

Yeah. I've had them. Yeah. I know about them. He knows about them. do. Yeah. Yeah. I feel cultured. Did you have painful ones? Were you like bleeding and stuff? No, mine weren't bad at all. No, I was bleeding so bad. This was in, I think this started in my mid 40s. I was bleeding so bad I became anemic and it was my cramping was like labor pains and it was affecting my life. Like it got to the point where I couldn't go and participate in things with them because I was laying in bed and I ended up having a hysterectomy. Wow. Right. Yeah. I did, but I'd already had my kids. did. I kept my ovaries, ⁓ but it freed me from the bleeding and everything. yeah. So you, but you had, sounds like that was affecting your fertility. Okay. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Right. my God. Yeah. I didn't have any symptoms. I had no symptoms. They did an ultrasound and they're like, have, like most of your uterine cavity is blocked. like, wow. So they did the surgery and that took almost a year to recover from that. That was a big, and then they removed the tumors and it was like a C-section on steroids, you know? Did you have C-section or vaginal birth? wow. Okay, because they went in and removed them, right? Wow. No, it was with the robot. And yeah, it was a whole thing. I only have like four little cuts that are maybe half an inch on my stomach. You wouldn't even know. And so they and then they removed everything vaginally, I think it was with a robot. No, it was very it was done in laparoscopic. Yeah, it was 2020. I had it done. wow. Yeah, more laparoscopic. Yeah. Yes. Yep, there was something about mine where they were positioned, I don't know. it was a... Yeah. That was... And you know, when you don't leave with a baby after that, that's not a fun recovery. That was...

So they had to cut you like a C-section? Jeez. ⁓ yeah. Because you were in the hospital, what, like three, four days? I don't even know if it's that long, right? They like to kick you out and get the bed back. But it was, yeah. But that was the first surgery. the recovery was intense. So the C-section was actually nothing when I went back in. Like, those child's play. But I also had a baby who was crying non-stop. ⁓ That's true. That's true. then the recovery. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Right. So once you had the surgery and you recovered, then did you get pregnant? Yeah. Yep, and it was full term immediately. So it was amazing. I'm surprised. How long did it take you trying and having miscarriage before they finally did the ultrasound? I mean, they may have done it, I can't remember. They may have thought it was a theory. It wasn't like 100%, you know? Because I got pregnant right away, as we've established. So I was getting pregnant, but just losing it every, I I had three miscarriages, and after that, that's when. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I wonder if they would have done the ultrasound and taken care of the fibroid sooner. If that was I don't know. Yeah, that blows me away. That blows me away. That just blows me away that to your point, how the hell do you not piece it together? He's always surprised that women's health care is ignored. I'm always like, dude, that's just what we go through all the time with everything. I've been shit on to for my responses. I don't know. Yeah. Then they did that like... What was that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah It's being totally ignorant. I get it. That blows me away though. Well, what's amazing is you're just saying this and I'm like, yeah, why didn't he do it? I've never even thought of that. I just kind of assumed, yeah.

Well, what's amazing is you're just saying this and I'm like, yeah, why didn't he do it? I've never even thought of that. I just kind of assumed, yeah. Yeah, because you're a woman. If it was a fibroid blocking the man's penis, they would have started to believe that. Yeah, I've resisted. It's because you're a woman. I'm starting to believe it. I'm telling you, it's crazy. Don't even get me started on perimenopause and how no one talked to Gen X. We didn't know anything. And all of a sudden we're in perimenopause and we're having depression and brain fog and gain 20 pounds. And I feel like we're going crazy. But God forbid anyone told you that can start at age 35. because none of our mothers talked about it. So there's so many women that are being treated for anxiety and depression that probably are in perimenopause and could use some hormone replacement therapy. So that's one thing I'm big on is Gen X women need to talk about it so that the younger women are prepared because we weren't. Yeah. Yeah, plus insurance companies. Yeah Well, you will be happy to know I talk about my menopause on stage to people in their 20s and I talk about, I do not, that's a really crude joke. I'm just, sometimes I end up having like, cause I do the creams, the compound creams, and sometimes I'll have them on my clothing and I'll have to say, this is not what you think it is. This is not a Monica Lewinsky situation. It is the opposite. Nice. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's not this is a splooge testosterone cream. No. Yes. Yes. Wouldn't it be exciting if it was but let me tell you. Yeah, no. That's great. You talk about it. That's great. You talk about

my god, yeah, no, that is not top of mind. I do, yeah, I love it. And I also talk about how... how we're all just sacks of chemicals and the way I know this is, because I overdid it one day with my testosterone, and I wanted to have sex with everything. I'd never had that urge before. It was unc- I was like edging all day and it was so uncomfortable though that the woman in me went out. Like the woman was like, no, we don't like this, must stop this, you know? Yes, yeah, we're- Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Balance back out, balance back up. Well, you know, they say to only do it in the morning because it can keep you awake. the testosterone at night, really? You don't do it later in the day or at night because it gives you like with men. That's why they have a not just the sex drive, but just that like not aggressiveness. But you know what I mean? Like just that. It's because it gives you that. So they say do it in the morning. That's what I was told. And I asked why. And she said because it might keep you awake at night. The. So yeah, I do that. I do the patch. Do you do the estrogen patch? I do the patch. Right. Yeah, yeah. The oomph, the male oomph. Well that's, I didn't know that. No, I'd been doing ⁓ these compound creams. I think I got caught up with a very expensive Beverly Hills witch doctor and got completely like grandma Nigerian-princed into this guy. And now I'm stuck with him and his magical creams. ⁓ But he's retiring and I am literally looking for somebody to like... save me. I don't want to not have them, so I think I might do the patch. So, but finding... Sorry, you go. Yeah. No, no. Well, I'll tell you, I know I was going to say I get it through my OB. The OBs will do it.

Yeah. No, no. Well, I'll tell you, I know I was going to say I get it through my OB. The OBs will do it. I need a new OB, that's the problem. And I am auditioning them right now, which is so fun. It's so fun finding somebody new to take care of my lady parts. ⁓ Brian, are you enjoying this part? Yeah. Yeah. Well, because also so. I mean, it's amazing. So so many obese, though, this is another complaint are just there's so few obese focus on midlife for women. It's all still babies, babies. And so there's just those random ones that will focus on perimenopause, menopause, hormones, know, hysterectomies, all the things we like, not just you don't just get a hysterectomy midlife. I know younger women do, too, but. Yeah. they need more obese to focus on that because there's all of us Gen X ladies are in our midlife and we don't need to be on the floor with the babies or we're like being rushed in for 15 minutes because your doctor is seeing so many pregnant women and they only have so much time. So now I actually see a nurse practitioner in the practice and she can do all the same things the OB can. So look into that and nurse practitioner in the medical Interesting. Yeah. group or whatever, you know what mean? Okay, see, that's so funny. I just rejected somebody because I was sent to this office and then they were gonna meet with me. I'm like, wait, it's just the nurse? No shade to nurses, but maybe it... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now the nurse practitioner is great. She can order all the same stuff. She prescribed the testosterone cream. I have an estrogen patch and I take progesterone at night in a pill form and that will knock you out. You will fall asleep. It's like a natural sleeping pill.

Well, I really like to not have these mysterious white stains all over my clothing. That would be nice. Yeah, you at least have a little bit just the testosterone do in the morning it absorbs and then it has to be good for the bit right little stain. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's a great bit. And you know what's funny about it? I'm always fascinated. I can't believe how many young men want to hear about menopause. I'm like, really? They find it really funny. I don't know what that is. I don't know if it's because they're kids of Gen Xers. I don't know. But I'm always sh- Great. ⁓ Listen, however you're getting the information out, you're doing the work. Keep doing it. I even had this idea to embarrass them in a fun way where I would lean out with my microphone and tell me what you think menopause is. And they actually knew! I'm like, what? I love that. That gives me hope. That's awesome. That's awesome. That's true. You'll have to let us know and now that you're taking it on tour, which we're going to get to if you find the men in other parts of the country are as attuned as in LA. But so how long were you and your ex-husband together? Yeah. Yeah, but it is LA. It is LA. So this is the land of... Yes. I don't think they will be. I don't think they will be. We were together all in ten years. And ⁓ yeah. Yes. Yes. Our son was seven. And I have to say, as a child of divorce, it was a bummer. Like, I didn't want this, you know. And I think we all... Well, you guys... Kudos, bro. Are your parents together?

and then you co-parented. His would still be his dad had passed away in 2007, but they would have still been married. So he comes from like this perfect family, leave it to Beaver traditional background. And I came from psychotic, three divorces on both parents remarried. Yeah, no, no half half siblings, step siblings, all the craziness. So what's ironic is that we both wanted the same thing because I didn't have it and he did. Right, sorry, you told me that. Sorry, yes. Yes. So as far as raising kids. You broke the cycle. What do you think the secret is that you were able to break the cycle? ⁓ Determination and we were best friends for three years before we got together and that friendship When life gets ugly and shitty No matter what we still were best friends. Even if I wanted to kill him in his sleep I didn't because he was my best friend. I survived a couple of times He survived but and there's times you hate each other, you know through the years, but it was that friendship It was the friendship Yeah. I'm with you. I don't want to blame my mother in this or the misguided feminism, but it's interesting. I feel like I was my most me in college and I could see had I had the emotional wherewithal or... parenting if I had grown up I don't know if I could have had a lasting relationship with somebody I met in college do you know what I mean like there's a Familiarity that I think you guys have with each other when it's right that is so wonderful, and I've been looking for my whole life. You know

Yeah, always tell my kids know this, but I think it's so important to have friendship, like true friendship, like where you treat each other as best friends. You treat your best friend so well, typically, right? Like you would never do really horrible things to your best friend. And so I always say you should be treating your spouse as well as you would treat your cherished best friend or better. And that's always my advice is to try to find that that friendship. So what's funny is I dated his best friend through, not best friend, very good friend through college. So it allowed us to become platonic friends through college. And then right before we graduated, we realized we love each other. Yeah, absolutely. He was not happy about that. ⁓ Yeah, he was, that was nice. Your friend was the warm-up act and then you came in and you... dear. Was there a crossover? There was some... No, but what's funny is when you have a group of friends in college, like half of them think there was. So they turned on us and the other half don't. even when like Facebook came back, came around and we all kind of reconnected with people we knew. And that group still, I think they treated us like they didn't believe us. think it was shocking to us. It shocking. By then we had children. Exactly. Yeah. It was very strange. It was like, so it was a big deal because Sure, yeah, yeah. Yeah. How many years exactly? That's crazy. my boyfriend and I were like the couple in the friend group and then so then it was a big big traumatic thing at the end of our college years together I guess for everybody I don't know so I guess yeah you never know and then you know one day one of our shorts from the podcast is going to come up on Facebook and be a jump scare for them like there they are

Sure. Apparently a lifelong scar. They're all in therapy talking about you guys still. How could they do that to us? Exactly. Yeah, they're... happy marriage. Why I oughta... It is so funny to me now as an adult who's, as I like to say, seen some shit. That's our age, you know, we've seen some shit. The idea being upset about like cheating with a boyfriend or something like that, it's not... that's not cheating. Yeah, that's... that's... yeah. So... so that is funny that these... yeah, sorry. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not at all, not at all. It's so funny. So you guys, when you separated though, you were, it was amicable and you've been able to co-parent together and everything's good. We had a tough time in the beginning and yeah. I think he was, yeah, he was very hurt and I still feel horrible about it to this day. I never wanted to hurt him. It's... really heard when one person wants the thing and the other doesn't. ⁓ But I think he would probably agree at this point. I don't know that we were really, really the right people for each other, you know? ⁓ but I also have no regrets. I know it sounds cliche, but we have this beautiful son together and it has been eight years and we are very good co-parents now. But it was a challenge at first, you know? yeah. ⁓ Yeah. I'm sure. You know what's weird is I know people who, and nothing even interesting happened. There's no cheating, you know what mean? I know people with the craziest, toxic stories and they are best friends with their, I think it almost helps to have like a bad guy, like something to point to. I don't know what that is. I'm like, you forgave them? That's cool, but like, it's just interesting. Yes, and they triangulate. They're like, that.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's almost like they trauma bonded or something. Yeah. person but Yeah. Yeah. So they couldn't totally separate because they're trauma bonded. But for you guys, there wasn't that trauma. So you just kind of can drift stuff. You just kind of drifted. So but I'm glad that now you guys have found some even. Yes! Yeah. Yeah. Now it's good, yeah. And our kid's amazing, and he's a great dad, and yeah. I mean, I don't recommend divorce. It's not fun. That's good. No, I know. I know. No, it's amazing how many Gen Xers have divorced or are divorcing now midlife. Yeah, well, I hope so. Just kidding. I'm not here to celebrate. I am not here to dance on the grave of divorce. I just want to be clear. Well, we've talked about just the whole also Gen X, we've talked about Gen X men, emotional development, communication, but I think so many of us as children grinded through, grinded through, our emotions were not acknowledged, discussed, we didn't know how to identify what we were feeling, and then we got married. And so it's a wonder that any of them have survived any of the marriages because we right now we say we grew up together. And that's when I say determination, because there were times when Yeah. Yeah. because of not having that preparation of how to communicate it was just almost like we're going to communicate. I don't know how, but we got to figure this out. No one taught us. So, but it's not easy at all.

No, and for listener viewers who just heard me say I'm not here to dance on Divorce is Grace, I just want to be clear, I was talking about my business, of the big D, like if divorce stops, I don't have a show. But I was joking, I just want to put that in context. Now I'm gonna come back to what you were saying, because the little voice, the publicist in my head was like, you need to button that one up. No, was gonna say there was this one book that I do recommend to couples who are struggling. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. it just brings clarity and I think it's called Hold Me Tight and we did all the therapy, we tried, like that's the other thing I think. It's not like, what if we, like we really tried, you know? ⁓ But that book had this one metaphor, this one thing in there and anytime I have friends who are struggling and wondering, I mean this image and I feel like couples like you, it's a very easy answer and it's just are you both on the dance floor? If you're both on the dance floor, you can accomplish anything. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. But when somebody's left the dance floor. Yeah. That's a great analogy. is. It is. Even even if you're fighting on the dance floor, you're both there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. You are engaged, you are invested. It's, I get chills thinking about it because I knew I had left the dance floor. It's so true. You hope you both have to commit to trying to make it work and figure it out and be committed to it. It's to her point, though, it's, you know, I mean, I feel very lucky. think we both do. You know, you do work at it and you have to evolve, especially guys, right? Gen X guys that were fairly obtuse, I think. And you just have to, I don't know, somehow you evolve. And I think maybe it's through kids. You had said something earlier where ⁓

Yeah. Of course. Yeah. I think you've learned about yourself. It was the ADHD thing, Yeah, your son, and you're like, oh my gosh, I see myself in him. You kind of see yourself in your kids, and that helps, I think, kind of keep it all together. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but... Well, I think us coming from school, from when we were young, and having such history, and we are so vetted, like, we don't have to explain anything about our past to each other. That does help. So to your point... ADHD, yeah. No it does. Yeah. when you said you could have seen yourself in a long-term relationship from college. mean, yeah. It makes sense. It does make sense. you're in that space room. Yeah, my two, yeah, and my two of my best friends out here, I love when people are like, who's really happily married? Like, I know happily married people. I'm not anti-marriage. Like, I'm pro-marrying the right person. But... Yeah. Yeah. These two friends of mine are both college sweethearts as well, or two couples. And I know that that's not, but they're supposed to be together, you know, they're both on the dance floor. it, yeah, yeah, not mine, not mine. It is trademarked, hold me tight, great book. It's a whole workshop. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, Yeah, exactly. love that metaphor. Yeah, I do too. I remember that. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, Yeah, exactly. love that metaphor. Yeah, I do too. I remember that. Yeah. But I will tell you, kind of funny, sad, mostly funny note about the American boyfriend that came to Italy. He was the one for me that got away. And I regret it. We didn't really know each other. But in my mind, over the years, always became if only, if only. So I did that thing that everyone does on Facebook, right? I found him. And I'm like, this is gonna be the thing. And I wrote him. And all I said, I'm just clearly fishing, right? And I'm like, how's it going or something? Mm-hmm. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. He said, Julie, you never change. And that was the last I heard from him. I'm the fuck does that mean? ⁓ my god! my god! That's crazy! I forget about being hurt. I need to know what's in the box, you know I mean? Like, what did you mean by that? I mean, you're probably right, but can you explain that to me? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. my gosh. That's too much. That's too much. OK. So when did you get into comedy? Like, were you still were you still married or was this supposed to? Okay, so. No, in fact, my ex-husband was into comedy, I think right before our son was born. So I used to go around to see him performing and, OK. So he was you said he was a writer, too, right? Yeah, I mean he was trying out comedy, you know what I mean? hadn't... Yeah, so I just remember being exhausted and not wanting to go to these late shows anymore every time I went to go see him perform. But anyway, I... Okay.

Okay. I don't know, I've always been funny my whole life, I would see him, I would see other people doing comedy, I'm like, I should do that, and then it's just the years, I don't know about you guys, it's just like, as soon you have a kid, I mean, I don't know where it went, but then... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We split up and it wasn't even then. I kept filling the void, an unfortunate metaphor, with boyfriends when I left the marriage. ⁓ And I really wasn't finding myself. I was avoiding the pain of the divorce. There's no good way to do it. I'm not shaming anybody who does it. There's no way through but through and time. And then when the time had gotten to a good place ⁓ and reality TV had shit the bed, which again, I don't know how much of this you know. Hollywood is like over, do you know about this? Okay. ⁓ Now I feel I've read a little bit about it. I'd be curious of what your yeah, what what is that? Well, I mean there's the reality side and there's the scripted side and the shortest version is streaming didn't work. Right? So it's like there too many streamers. Like how many, you know what I mean, how many, do you even care about any shows anymore? Like there are so many good shows that you almost don't care about them, right? So it ate itself and they claimed they weren't making money. ⁓ Yeah. Yep. Yes. I imagine they weren't, but then again, the writer's strike was like, are making money, they're not paying us enough. So I don't want to get into that side necessarily. I'm sure they're not getting paid enough writers, but I think the business model was not working and there was a bubble basically. And so it affected both scripted and unscripted and all the networks started to merge and companies were getting slashed. Like David Zaslov was brought in to take over

Mm-hmm. Warner discovery and just kind of he made HBO Max and the whole thinking of that was I think he said you'll be able to find anything from succession to Dr. Pimplehopper like ⁓ no but it was Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember the number of how much debt he had to clear, but it became clear pretty quickly. It was like, you know, the producers, like it was easier to, even if a movie or TV show was done, it was easier for them not to put it out and to take the loss to recoup money. So it was just, I don't know if you're Game of Thrones fans, but it was like red wedding. Okay, it was a red wedding in town, like just massive layoffs. So many people have left town. Writers' rooms have shrunk. ⁓ Everybody thought reality, Hmm. Yes. Okay. would then balloon because of scripted, but it didn't because we're all basically at the same teat, if you will, of ⁓ the streamers. it just, the business doesn't work anymore, the business model. And so as it rebirths itself, there've been so many financial casualties for almost everyone I know. ⁓ And that was a very lofty way of saying everyone I know is out of work. So work started to slow down, yeah. Wow. Well, it's just going to say a lot of it's left LA too, right? It's moved on to other areas. Yeah. then there's that as well, yes. Because there's been no tax incentives. I think I just read that maybe it's back. I don't know, I think the whole business is just gonna become peer-to-peer YouTube. Like you look at how our kids consume material. I just don't even think we can conceive of what it's gonna look like in the end, but it's...

Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah. I think that, so like social media, like Tik Tok has taken a huge chunk. Like I know for myself, I'll just go on Tik Tok at night and not watch TV. And I know a lot of people like that, that won't even turn on the TV. a YouTuber. Yeah. So I, I think that reality TV, I guess, quote unquote, where it's actually people like regular people, you know what I mean? Watching regular people. I think that's taken a chunk out of things. I could be wrong, but I, Yeah. Yeah. No, I think you're right. I make that worse or better? I'm trying. Okay. There's an ad. No, you're good. No, you're fine. for Jimmy Fallon, was like three billion views. It's all about who's watching it, the monologue the next day and the bits the next day. yeah, mean, everything's changed for all of us. But I watched my son and I was like, oh, 28 days later, maybe you're old enough to see that now. He's like, I saw it. I said, where? said, YouTube. like, what? When did you? Okay, well, that's a great movie you need to see. but. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think for people not in the business, like, but there's so much stuff. But if you notice, there really isn't anymore. Like lot of stuff stopped being, like we're watching Brooklyn Nine-Nine right now, know, like old seasons of it. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of people are watching like older shows. Yes, because that is by design. That's how Netflix is like, hey, you might like this series. Because they're trying to avoid making other series. ⁓ So it's a pretty... yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I have a question for you. Have you ⁓ have you ever done any like made your own film like a short film? You mentioned the 16 millimeter back in the day. Technology is pretty good these days.

Yeah, no, my... You know, Brian, I agree and I kick myself all the time because there is no excuse to not make my own thing. ⁓ No, no, no, but it is true. I mean, now more than ever, you can make an entire movie on your phone, you know? So you're reminding me of a goal that I dropped and I'm going to get back to it tomorrow. So you just saw my entire soul disappearing from my body. Well, time, other things, you know. Yeah. Well, I'm in the same boat. I want to do something. have no background or anything in it, but I would love to because it is sort of accessible. I don't have a theme. That's my problem. I know all the technical attributes of it. Pre, post, everything, but I don't have a story. If that makes sense. Yeah, like I'd love to make a film, like a short film, five, 10 minute type of thing. I don't really have a theme though. It'll come. Yeah. What is it? You mean you want to direct a film? Yes. Got it. Well, to answer your question, yes, writing is horrible and painful and nobody likes it. And that is why I am not directing a movie right now. But it is in my mind to just finally sit down and do it. ⁓ If you do it, you have to let us know. Come back and tell us. Yeah, come on and talk about it. That would be awesome. So because of what was going on in Hollywood, did that lead you to comedy? Okay. Oh, of course, you'll be the first one I'll complain to. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah, well that and my mom was dying. So, it's always so strange. I love when I meet guys online and they're like, you're a comic. How'd you get into that? Like, don't, it's not good. Like, nobody becomes a comic because of like a good story. You're not gonna like this. They're like, that's not sexy. Okay, no, it's not. My mom died. ⁓ Okay, she, yeah, she, ⁓ okay, so.

Right. Yeah. How did your mom die lead to that? Shh, I don't know. Well, okay. I do know about you, Nicole, but not you, Brian. I had a complicated relationship with my mom. Anyone? Anyone? Malignant narcissism, for one? Hello? I mean, yeah, I think we both have tapped into that a little bit. you have? I thought you came from the perfect family, Brian. Yeah, everything looks good from the outside, ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I'll keep it at that. have a yeah. No, think it is a generation. I think it's a generational thing. Copy that. Okay. And maybe it's just that generation. Say it again, Bray. Yeah, I mean, I think part of it was like these women had to break free of under the thumb of like Don Draper's. You just call this whole episode Don Draper. ⁓ And it's like that whole Virginia slam. You've come a long way, baby. So it's like, I think they had to become selfish to rebirth the concept of being a woman, maybe. I don't know. mean, yeah. So. Yeah, so what was I saying? Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. about your mom when she's done. Yeah, so she never stood a chance. I don't know about your mom, but it's like, I have a whole thing about this too. It's like, there was no time for gentle parenting then. Like, they were surviving. And she was a child of trauma. you know, it just, I have forgiven her for every whatever, you know, because I'm just so aware of what she lived through. And, uh, Right. Yeah. Yeah. And we wouldn't be this way had we not had that, you know? So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, I wish I did that. Woulda, shoulda, coulda. Anyway, ⁓ so yes, so we were very close, very codependent, but also, well, I moved 3,000 miles, she's in Chicago, I'm in LA, like, you know, there's stuff. And...

Yeah. Yeah. Now there's pros and cons. Definitely pros and cons. Then she got sick and you know, it's very hard to show up and care for somebody that you have to protect yourself around if that makes sense. So she had cancer. was, I can't remember the name of it, CUPS, which is cancer of unknown origin. 15 % of all cancers are considered cancers. They can't figure it out. And then like 7%, they finally just go into and they just look at where the tumors are and they just treat it as if. So she basically was treated Yeah, yeah. Wow. or like has metastasized Correct. Yeah. already and they're not sure where the source is. Okay, that makes sense. So that was about a year and a half of her going through that and I just had to show up and be there but not really be there, you know? Like gray rocking. Are you guys, do ever talk about gray rocking on your show? Mm-hmm. No, what's gray rock rocking? So gray rocking is, I don't know, it's one of the eight million trends they talk about online today, but it's, if you have somebody like that in your life, but you don't wanna not be in their lives, it's a way to show up and be there, but not really be there. I don't know, it's hard to... Yeah, yes. So you kind of have a protective boundary around you and you don't really emotionally and mentally connect to what like you don't empathize completely and put yourself in their shoes and connecting completely immerse yourself in the experience, but you're there physically. Yeah, but you try and be there. You're still pleasant to be around. You don't engage. You don't take the bait, really, is the layman's term, terms, debt.

Yeah, but you try and be there. You're still pleasant to be around. You don't engage. You don't take the bait, really, is the layman's term, terms, debt. Yeah. Right. Okay. Okay. We did. You could explain it better than I'll just butcher it. But we did. We've talked about that where children who have this, you relationship. talked. Well, what we talked about was a lot of Gen Xers are having to care for their elder parents. And a lot of those elder parents are the source of their childhood trauma. And if you haven't had a chance yet to totally resolve your childhood trauma, or even if you have, it can re-trigger, even if you've gone through all the healing work, you can still be re-triggered right back into that space again. Or if you haven't dealt with it or impacted, you're right back in that space when you were 10 years old. And so the struggle of having to care for this person that caused you pain. A lot of gen X is going through that right now. Yes! That's so interesting and also I think that's how I found you. I think I saw maybe a clip of you talking about that because you said that I just got chills. I'm like, right! Yes! Yes! Was that it? That have been the short that you reached out to us. resonated for a lot of people. Yeah, it's a lot of people our age. Because you feel less alone. You feel, you feel guilty. You know, your parents sick and you're angry at them.

Because you feel less alone. You feel, you feel guilty. You know, your parents sick and you're angry at them. Yeah, that's what it was. think a lot of guilt and people were like, my gosh, I'm not alone. And a lot of people said, I thought I was the only one that felt this way. And then there's tens of thousands of people that are like, no, I feel this way, too. There's a lot of people, too, though, where that were like, fuck them. I don't care. It caused me trauma. I'm no contact for the last 10 years. They can die alone. At least half the people. Very interesting. Extremely visceral. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder how those people are doing, because I found... I was in a horribly toxic relationship with this guy who gave me tons of material, he's in my first set, so this is the other question. So the other thing is I was in a bad relationship romantically, great sex of course, great sex, bad people, always a great combination. Anyway, ⁓ Thank Yeah. He was hot. so, ⁓ and I've come a long way because I can see those guitars I'm not having, I'm not triggered. He was a guitarist. I'm fine, I'm totally fine. Yeah. So, yeah, exactly. then, yeah, yeah, exactly. Then she lost it. ⁓ And so I'm with him, she's sick, and he said, actually, this was before she even got sick, because he knew about her. You ⁓ okay. There you go. Just don't rub too much your patch on there and the cream. Yeah.

You ⁓ okay. There you go. Just don't rub too much your patch on there and the cream. Yeah. He said, I'm really worried about you, that you're gonna lose your mom and you're not gonna have forgiven her and you'll never be able to forgive yourself and I want you to do this for you. And if that was the reason that fool came into my life, great, you know, cause I did start working on it and I did start, it was maybe less gray rocking. I was able to actually be there, but I was still, you know, the dangler fish, you know, the light, was not gonna, you know. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then she got sick and I remember calling him, crying, and like, oh my god, my mom has cancer. And he was like, what? I said, but I'm so glad that you, I'm just remembering this now. I said, I'm so glad you had me on this path because when she told me I was able to cry, I was so sad about losing her. So I actually was in a really good emotional position with my mom when it started, but. Yeah. you know, then things would happen. So I guess it's too late to say long story short, I had avoided getting super engaged with her and anything, but this fight was so important, because this is what led to comedy. So I was with her, and I guess every Gen X parent who talked about this will love this story. She's on her deathbed, I it took a while, but she was still on the bed that she would soon be, know, whatever. Right, okay, and she says to me out of nowhere, I don't know what I did so wrong when you were a little child. Like basically I thought, my gosh, she's apologizing to me for everything she ever did wrong, it's happening. And then she finished the thought and said, for you to have such horrible taste in men. And I had broken up with. Right. Yeah. my goodness. my gosh.

Right. Yeah. my goodness. my gosh. Guitar man who I knew was bad and have so much shame around that ⁓ I said, you know mom don't do this don't do that and she just was and and I think you know, it's a familiar She was excited probably on some subconscious level, you know, and then we're just yelling each other like don't do this stuff like go in the other room and I said I'm sobbing uncontrollably and And my stepdad comes in he's like, why are you crying? Yeah. ⁓ man. And I said it, and he said, you know your mom, she's always been emotionally distant with you. That is the first time I had ever heard that before. Yeah. I'm like, what? You never said that before? Anyway, I had it in my mind. like, well, I've been with her for a long time through this sickness, and this is... ⁓ my gosh. Wow. Wow. ⁓ Probably the last time I'm gonna see her, because I can't, this this cut deep, you know, and I have to protect myself. And I had seen this comedy teacher, shout out, right? Leslie Wolf, amazing comedy teacher. If you ever wanna take stand-up comedy, it's all on Zoom, you can do it, it's incredible, it's therapy, it's amazing. Okay, there, I had to say that, because... Leslie Wolf, can also probably send the links. Yeah. links you want to anyone will put it in the description.

Leslie Wolf, can also probably send the links. Yeah. links you want to anyone will put it in the description. Okay. Yeah, I recommend everyone do this. I don't care if you don't want to be a comic. It's an amazing experience. ⁓ So she, I'd been seeing her workshops, her showcases with friends of mine over the years. I'm going to do that. And all of sudden 10 years goes by and I see that she's one is starting the next day. And I'm like, I'm doing this, you know, my truth. I'm going to burn everything to the ground. Everyone's going to know, you know? And, and then I got home and I calmed down and I, I called her and I was like, yeah, I'm not doing this. I haven't worked in a while. I don't have the money for this. And I'm really raw with my, you know, I can't do this. I don't even think I mentioned my mom. And she said, I know this is gonna sound... Suspicious, right? Like she's looking to close the deal. It wasn't, I swear to you. She called me back, she said, I will give you a deal on this. I can tell you need this class. And she was right. And I started that night and I did burn it down on that first Zoom call with everyone and they're all laughing and crying. Like, this is gold, this is incredible, you're so lucky. I'm I'm so lucky, that's what a comic says. And then my mom went into hospice the following Monday and I was like, oh shit, I have to start a whole new set. So I drove out there and I already, it was like rebooted us, you know? And I was like, okay, I'm here again. anyway, it was just this weird blessing. I mean, I don't like the word blessing, but I started to rewrite everything and realize that I am more than the stories of me and my mom. everything I wrote had nothing to do with her in the beginning. Yeah.

Yeah. to do with her, but nothing to do with her. And I was able to show up and be like emotionally vulnerable with her and be with her and forgive her. I'm going to start crying thinking about like compassion because I had this thing and I was just telling to friends about this. said, because you, you finally felt heard and seen. Like I'd always had this fantasy of a jury hearing me as a child. Like, can you believe what I'm putting up with? You know? And then I finally had it on that zoom call, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. you And they're like, they're just like, yes, you know, and they were all, they were very disappointed when I dropped that set. I'm like, yeah, that's not happening. I can't get disinherited. ⁓ But after someone sees this, I probably will be. Anyway, yeah. You are validated. Yeah. It's awesome. You were validated. Like you said, the child in you was finally seen and acknowledged and validated. And not by her. That's where we all go wrong, right? We cannot wait for them. We can only forgive them once we stop, you know? Right. Yeah. You went and found your own closer. Yes. Yes. But did it come from your stepfather saying those words? No, it came from the Zoom call where she... No, but I mean, it was the catalyst, him kind of acknowledging and validating it, right? Your mom's always been emotionally distant. Where the hell have you been, He put words to... That's what I'm saying. Like you were probably always wondering, what is it? What is it? And then he put the words to what it was. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I think it was. Yes. Yeah. I didn't feel crazy in that moment. I thought he was coming in to shame me about tears, which he was a little bit, because that generation, they're like, we don't cry around here. What are you doing? Just quiet. Shut that down. know? ⁓ Bury it. So it was a shock that he said that. I was like, what? You're right. Yeah. was... Yes! Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, bury it, bury it. It's almost like you were gaslit. I think a lot of Gen Xers were gaslit through their childhood. You're not feeling that way. They were made fun of for being dramatic or all that stuff when ⁓ we were gaslit for all of our lives. And then finally when we're not and we're validated and we don't feel crazy, like we're not crazy, it's like, wow, I'm not crazy. Totally. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and that's what that was for you. You had that closure. So then from there, did you just, like, how did you decide, okay, I'm going to do standup in comedy? Yeah, that's what happened. Yeah, you're right. That's what it was. Yeah, it was a four-week class and my secret plan was I'm not performing. I'm just gonna do the classes. This woman's crazy if she thinks I'm getting on stage. I'm just gonna do these classes and be done with this. And then, it's four weeks and then you perform right away. And that's one of the things I love about her class. You go on the main stage at Flapper's, a really good club here in Burbank. So you don't have time to like, you know, you're getting shoved out of the plane. It's an incredible growth thing that happens. And she really works with you on your personal story. It's not like set up punch, set up punch. And so it's very therapeutic, her class. But as the performance time was getting closer, I was like, I think I am doing this? shit. Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓ But I didn't tell my parents. I didn't tell them for months. And it felt so empowering that I had this secret life out there, you know? But anyway, I showed up that night and Leslie was there and she's like, this is crazy. You should be working all the time. You're a natural. And ⁓ she's like, trust me, you're gonna be addicted the moment you do this. And she was right. Like my foot hit the stage. It was like, just like electricity and light and. Yeah. It was amazing and I was completely hooked. If they had a cane, they probably would have had to pull me off stage, you know, because I totally ran the light. I was like, and another thing! And yeah, was like, okay, when do I go again? And it just has been nonstop since. And I think it is the Gen X thing, you know? It's like, all right, we're gonna do this. We're gonna crack this nut. don't even, it's insane, but I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So when was that? My two-year comedy anniversary will be this October. So how old were you when you went on that stage? I was 53. So I think that's such a great example of we're never done, Gen X especially. We are always going to live life and tackle it no matter how old we are. There is no, well, I'm in my 50s, I'm in my 60s, I'm in my 70s. I think Gen X is going to go down fighting and living and taking on new experiences and challenging ourselves. I think a lot of it does come from the grind of our childhood. ⁓ No. Yep. And that's the pro of how we were raised because I don't think any other generation is aged like we are. And I think you're such a beautiful example of that. god, thank you. Can you guys adopt me? Is that weird? No? No, honestly though, because, you know, when we were raised,

god, thank you. Can you guys adopt me? Is that weird? No? No, honestly though, because, you know, when we were raised, That's so beautiful what you said, by the way. I just want to stop and say that you guys are amazing. Thank you. No, it's true. think when we were growing up, we thought by the time you hit 50, like it's done. Like it's done. We just now you go into all your older years. And but no, that's where Gen X is actually probably starting to live their biggest dreams. And I think we should we should be an inspiration for the younger generations to say because some of these younger generations think your 30s is old. And I keep saying, you guys don't even know. You don't know anything yet. Yeah. with. ⁓ But just wait till you have, I found 50 very liberating, but I think you're just such a great example of what GenX is doing. I look what you've done in two years. I think it's remarkable. You've reinvented your entire life again, but this time it's a hundred percent on your terms and it's coming from such a place of you're really standing in a healthy place on your two feet, a solid foundation. Thank you. I feel that... Yeah. Yes. and you probably are your most authentic self, I would say. Yeah. It's awesome. you feel reinvigorated in a sense? Yeah. Yes. All that. It's so interesting. my god. When I hear... I am never bored. I am never depressed anymore. I might get anxious, but I know... I do have a lot of friends who have not found this thing, whatever it is for them, and I feel bad for them because I don't, you know, but I just... I can do this to the grave. I'll be doing this in Singer Citizens Home. You know what mean? Like, it is... Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's awesome.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's awesome. incredible and you can be broke and you can do it, you can do this, nobody can stop you from doing comedy. It's amazing. And I do want to say the young thing is hilarious because I'm friends with so many young comics and it's so funny when they get up there like, just turned 30, I'm really feeling my age. the ones I kind of have to give a little slack to, it's like I'm turning 40 and I'm like, I know you think it's old, it's not, but it is, it's the beginning of old. Like your body's changing for sure, your eggs are dead or whatever, you know. Yeah. No. Yes. Especially if you're a woman. Yeah, if you're a woman, the perimenopause and menopause and all that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. But the 30 year olds, I'm like, you're a zygote. Like you are not, but they don't know. They don't know and I don't know how to help them. Like one of my closest friends is 30 and I'm like, dude, you're so good. Like you're fine. Just it's cool, man. You've got this. Yeah, they don't know. They don't know. No. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think what's hard for them with social media is there's so much FOMO and so much comparison and comparisons that the joy and I think that when they all think they're supposed to be doing that and even when they accomplish something, then then in an hour they could see somebody doing something better and they're like, ⁓ but my thing isn't as good as that now I got it. They're always having to chase and probably never feel Yes.

Yes. satisfied or content with their accomplishments because social media and most of that's fake. Most of it's not real. Performing and it's performative. But I don't think they they still understand that fully. And I guess, yeah, we can all, you know, it's it's we all have to take a moment, remind ourselves that it's performative. But I think for the younger generations, I really feel bad for them because I think it takes a lot longer for them to feel like I'm sucked into it, yeah. Yes. I do too. proud of what they're doing. Yeah, and is there any joy in anything if it's not being recorded and posted? Like, that's so awful to me. That's what I'm, my son, actually, here's the good news. My son, not on social media, thank God, he's always complaining that I'm filming too much. ⁓ But that's new, that's from this comedy thing, like it was not me before, you know? But I do have to be careful, because I'm like, can I, no, mom, you know? He's like, yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, yeah, I a question. I have a clarifying clarifying question, I guess. So that first night you went out, you went out by yourself and did stand up in front of a crowd. Yeah. Yes. Sorry, yes and, before you think I'm super badass, it's a class, you're friends with all your classmates, it is the warmest audience, but it was terrifying, I was shitting myself, yes, but I had friends there, I had my friend Amy there. I mean that, in fact, if you had to... it was the scariest day of my life, I just wanna be clear, and I was... Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, but that's still pretty. That's some pressure. There's some. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. evacuated from the airport at 9-11. So this was scarier than that. This was like, I'm going to die. Okay, cool. I'm dying tonight. This is fun.

evacuated from the airport at 9-11. So this was scarier than that. This was like, I'm going to die. Okay, cool. I'm dying tonight. This is fun. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you're hoping for laughs, right? That's the whole game. You're hoping that people, resonates and people laugh and clap at the end. Yes, I think that first time though, you're just like, you're like, am I gonna remember anything? Am I gonna be shaking so hard they'll see how nervous I am? Am I gonna embarrass myself in front of everyone? And it was probably the best set of my life that will ever happen. That first set, if you have a great first set, you'll never be that. Get through it. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah, yeah. I didn't know other comics at that point. You know what mean? I didn't have anything to compare it to. And it is, you know, they call it a hot room. It's a warm room. Like, everybody's there to support you and laugh. So it was incredible. But yeah, I was terrified. I recommend it for everyone. Say that again. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you have an experience? What about your first experience when it wasn't the warm room and you're out there now? yeah, yeah, yeah, the bombing, yeah, that was horrible. ⁓ That early on you think, well, I'm delusional, I should never do this again, know, all or nothing thinking. And then I've, well, I would say I've been fortunate enough, but again, the Gen X, I'm very good at finding mentors and finding people and researching it, you know, so I actually reached out to... ⁓ Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. So I had some people that I had kind of befriended, you know, and they hooked me up with this comic and it was this very established comic. And it's funny, I had just gone out the night before and bombed and I was doing so well before that. I was, I went in with a whole new set I hadn't even tried out in a mic. I didn't know. And it doesn't work like that, you know? And I'd only been doing it a couple of months and I completely was like, ⁓ I don't know, maybe this is too in the weeds, but I mentioned it her. She's like, what are you doing doing a new set? You just started. No, you gotta just get used to the stage. gotta just do your set. Maybe add a new little nugget within your set, but you need to know where to get back on. And if you bomb this early on, you're gonna get in your head, think I'm not funny, and you're not gonna know where to get back on. I said, oh my God, that's what happened. So you start to learn, oh, this is part of it. And I met this... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And now it's not fun to bomb, but I feel like it's not even bombing now. I look at it more as, ⁓ I didn't communicate correctly with the crowd. What went wrong? How much of that was them? How much of that was me? What jokes need to get better? So the longer I do it, and my friends, I very good friends, we have a support system, you where we talk each other off the I suck ledge. ⁓ Also, it's a drug, so then you go back and have an amazing set the next night, you're like, I am God! You know, so it's like, it's crazy.

Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But what growth? mean, I always say as we get older, we should always we should try to always be making ourselves feel uncomfortable because I think through that comes growth and it keeps our brains on it keeps our brains growing and strong and it keeps us on our toes. And so what you're doing, it's almost like every night. you are experiencing some form of growth because you don't know what your crowd is going to be. You don't know what's going to come your way. So you're you're just having such this beautifully fluid growing experience every night. You go out there. It's awesome. So cool. Yes. Yeah. It's truly magical. Yeah, I get so excited as I take the stage. It's like, this is my happy place, you know? Yeah. That's amazing. did you do stand up? So when did you create the Big D dating show? how long did you just do stand up? Real quick, tell us what is the Big D dating show? Well, yeah. Yes. yes, it is not what you think, but I did name it that to get men to laugh when I gave them flyers on the street, and it does work. ⁓ Yes, you are, it's okay, and I love that about you. Yeah, I don't think they think that, Brian, I'm gonna be honest. No, I'm just kidding. I'm totally joking. We're simple. Everybody thinks we're complex. We're real simple. Yeah. I agree. So it's called The Big D and the D is for divorce and it is a comedy matchmaking show for divorced singles. ⁓ and

We're simple. Everybody thinks we're complex. We're real simple. Yeah. I agree. So it's called The Big D and the D is for divorce and it is a comedy matchmaking show for divorced singles. ⁓ and The way the show works is I have a panel of comics ⁓ and myself as the host. then for about a month I cast, and by cast I mean find real people, not actors or actresses. I find three men, three women. Ideally they're all divorced, gotta stay on brand. ⁓ But also, because I started this as a single divorced mom, I just felt like as I was swiping on the apps, I was always looking very clearly for ⁓ a divorced parent. What if I just created a place where that was who showed up, you know? And also there are all these like... I don't know how much of this you guys know, so if I'm telling you something you know, whatever, but there are a lot of... dating comedy shows in LA, but they're for the kids. They're young and it's very much like, and I love talking to people my age, it's like The Gong Show. You know, that's such a good analogy and when that gets lost on my 30 year old friend, Steven Cha, I'm just gonna say this so I can clip this out to him, it bums me out, Steven, because it's a really good reference. Okay, anyway, he now mentions The Gong Show. ⁓ Mm. Okay, yes. Yeah. It's concious, legendary. is. Deep cut. But you know, it's like mean-spirited, put freaks on stage, laugh at them. Like, I never liked that even as a kid. I'm like, this is making me sad. So there's a lot of that comedy out here. And I actually got roped into doing one for a friend of mine. And it's a very successful comedy show. It is no shade to his show. But as soon as I watched the video after I said yes, I was like, no. And I'm like, you know, and I did it and it was fine. But I remember thinking.

Yeah. There's gotta be a version of this for us. And that's actually really heartfelt and taps into my love of interviewing people from when I was a reality producer and comedy. And I've always matched me. I've always connected people. Malcolm Gladwell talks about connectors. I love connecting folks. Anyway, I've been doing comedy for a year ⁓ and I'd already been producing another show with a friend of mine. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Basically, it's so crowded in LA as comics. It's almost impossible to get into the big three, you know, you have to get past So you kind of have to produce shows to ensure that you get stage time once a month and then you ingratiate yourself or endear yourself with other comics and they put you on your it's a community building thing and You get your reps in like the only way you get better is rep rep rep Yeah, yeah. And ⁓ so I'd already kind of gotten my producing chops. Like I wasn't scared of that anymore, but it was pretty crazy a year into doing this. ⁓ Westside Comedy Theater, great place, Santa Monica, shout out. ⁓ They put a little ad up that said, got a new show idea? And is this Gen X? I love trying to sell things. I just love being ballsy and go, what about this? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, and you can't even cash that check, but you're just like, how about this? Yeah. Yeah. Fake it till you make it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, and you can't even cash that check, but you're just like, how about this? Yeah. Yeah. Fake it till you make it. Yeah. Right! And so I was like, well, how about a divorced man making show? You know, I literally just said what it is here. And he wrote back, he's like, I love it. Can you have it ready in a month up on its feet? I was like, but I said, sure, because I'm not going to fail. Yeah. So I hyperventilated my way through up until opening night and I got LA Times to do an article on it and it was sold out and it was incredible. And it was. Wow. Yeah. See you in four weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. It was next level. really was all my favorite things in one and I knew there was something like you could feel it in the room, you know? I'm sure a lot of what you guys feel doing your podcast. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Like, it's just connection. It's incredible. Yes. Yeah, it is. It's the best. Yeah. No, it's why we love doing this. We love it. Yeah. Well, good. I'm glad. I'm glad you are feeling that because we genuinely... sound corny, but it's just an honor for us to sit here and have this kind of conversation with you. And you share so much with us. It's really fucking cool, actually. Absolutely. Yeah. I can tell. Yeah. Yeah. I feel the same way about you guys. I guess I have to start listening to Grateful Dead now. ⁓ There you go. So you can do it in the privacy of your home. You'll be fine. So yeah, was really in the private, I would, Touch of Grey. mean, it's a good fucking song, I get it. Okay. ⁓ And if you listen to the studio version, they don't jam. It's quick.

So yeah, was really in the private, I would, Touch of Grey. mean, it's a good fucking song, I get it. Okay. ⁓ And if you listen to the studio version, they don't jam. It's quick. I think, you know what, it might be my ADHD. It might be the problem with the jam band. Honestly, it's like, when are they gonna go to the next one? Okay. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, so that's what happened and I was like, I gotta do it again. And I've been doing it for the last seven months and it's been amazing. And now I'm taking it on the road, which I... Yeah. I'll send you some shows to start with. Yeah. We'll send you some quick shows. Yeah. No, they won't be quick. They'll be good. ⁓ That's so cool. I kind of knew I'd have to see if it really had legs, you if I could really scale this thing up, I knew I'd have to leave LA. Because also if you have it every month, I'm noticing a lot of people are like, when's the next one? Like, ⁓ this is the one I need you to buy tickets for right now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So how do you do that on the road, though? I mean, how do you vet people? Are you advertising like in Chicago? Did you? OK. Yes, yes, I'm basically figuring it out on the fly. Very Gen X, I guess. No, I don't know about you guys, but the whole social media ad marketing thing, I mean, I'm trying. Nobody knows is what I'm learning, but... ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I'll put up, I'll boost the ads, target people, ⁓ and then I'll try and make clips go viral. Hasn't quite happened yet. ⁓ But I reached out to the clubs, and again, just balls to the wall. like, I can sell out your club. I really thought I could in Chicago, because I'm from Chicago. I'm like, I got this. And now I'm like, no, this is harder. This is harder than I thought. ⁓ But anyway. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So from Chicago, so it was, I thought maybe a little easier to spread the word there, and that I knew locking in press would be huge, so I got the Chicago Tribune to do a story, and that's coming out Sunday, which I wish was coming out before three days for the show, but it's fine. It's gonna be a nice splashy piece, Sunday paper, online Monday, ⁓ so that'll hopefully get us over the ticket hump a little bit. ⁓ And then I find the men on, sorry, go on. Good. Yeah. You already have your contestants? Yes, yes, that's the very first thing I do. Until I have them, I can't sleep at night, because those are the... This, for you guys, is what I do with them. Until I have this, I don't have a show. I have to find the comics, which is a little harder to do, because that's not my community, but I asked all my friends here, I'm like, all who do you guys like in Chicago? So I was able to find comics, locked them in. I'm yeah, I don't think about that now. And then I find the men on Hinge. Right. Yeah. Yeah. which is a very complicated transaction, as you can imagine. ⁓ But I have my poster up there and I always approach them first. I worked on a non-offensive flattering ⁓ opening intro with ChatGPT. I'm like, help me make these men feel okay. I don't know if it did, but anyway. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Most half of them are like this sounds like a hoot I want to talk to you some of them are like what's the big idea? This is catfishing. I'm like, it's not look up the definition of catfish. This is not catfishing That's me. I'm single Shoot your shot come to the show like you don't even live in Chicago. Like you got me. I mean, there's no Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Here's my Instagram, here's a website. ⁓ are you just using this to find men? Like, yes, I'm literally using this to find men. Again, you figured it out. Yeah. Yeah. I'm embarrassed for that. It's not catfish. It's the absolute opposite of catfishing. It's remarkable. They don't know what to do with that. Yeah, total transparency. ⁓ I know, and they, I know. But I do want to say so many of are cool about it, and I love when I meet those guys. That's awesome. That's awesome. Were you going to say something, No, no, I just, I mean, I get it. I'm from Gen X. I don't trust anything. So maybe that's what's in play here. But if, mean, if you have a website, Instagram page, whatever it's like, yeah, ⁓ she's very elaborate. Yeah, it felt like he had. Well, and I'm also like, and I don't say, I think you're hot, I wanna do you, I don't start, like, I'm literally like, would you like to be a bachelor on the dating show I'm bringing to Chicago? Like, I'm very clear about it. And the funniest thing that I'll see over and over again, it's funny to me is when the next comment is, so you don't wanna date me. Like, it's always the next line, like, it's literally... Yeah. Yeah. my god. That one is fine. Yes, yes, yes, definitely. And then, yeah, so that's a funny one. This is one guy was like, this is pathetic, as if I'd ever spend money to come to some show to meet someone. like, you're literally on a show called Hinge. What are you talking about? But honestly, then the men that find it fun and funny, it's so cool. It just makes me feel better about the human race. And then I... This is why we're still married. This is easier. Yes, yes, yeah. Yeah.

This is why we're still married. This is easier. Yes, yes, yeah. Yeah. I get on the Zoom with them, I always gotta get them on the Zoom, then they're fine, you know? And then they're like, okay. Every time they get on the Zoom with me, they're like, okay. I'm like, yeah, it's just, this is it, just me. I'm one of you, I'm not here to embarrass you. If you are easy to embarrass, I don't even want you on stage. I don't want a roastable man. Please tell me now, are you roastable? Because I don't want you up there. ⁓ So yeah, also there's just a men in Chicago hat, by the way, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's probably nice to have a whole new demographic there and kind of fresh and Midwest is totally different than LA. you're in Chicago on the 2nd or July 3rd. Sorry, July 3rd. What's the venue? Yes. Yes. Yes. July 3rd, yeah. Yep, and then it's Zany's, which I don't know if you had one of the big chains, so was happy to get that. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, they're all over, and there's one in Nashville. ⁓ So Zany's, Rosemont, I was hoping for downtown, it's fine. ⁓ Okay. That's awesome. I feel like I've heard of zanies. I've heard of zanies. Yeah. Why am I saying that out loud? I'm shitting on my own show. No, I just want to make sure nobody's like, I don't want to drive all the way out to Rosemont. So yeah, it's in Rosemont. ⁓ saying three women three the women were harder to find because I don't live in Chicago anymore so in LA it's like hey who do you know I don't know I just find them easier here and then the men are harder to find here because I don't know why something's in the water in LA but I find them but it's a lot harder my god the men in Chicago are fabulous I had to cut men Mmm. Yeah. Are the women more suspicious of...

Mmm. Yeah. Are the women more suspicious of... No, I just don't even know how to get to them. I think the problem really was I just didn't have the press. I was really hoping this article would come out a week ago. It's like a bat signal, you know? ⁓ So it's just grassroots. I do. I just locked the last one in yesterday. That's how nerve-racking this was. I was like, and I didn't even know what she looked like and what she would sound like. I'm on the Zoom and she comes out and I'm like, okay, okay. And then she starts talking like, yes, yes, because I need to Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have the women for Chicago? OK. Wow. Nice job. That's awesome. You We with them. We need to become friends. And then it's really nice on stage, you know? And she was lovely. ⁓ And I don't know, it's like you just know when you know. But I'm also, sorry, I'm matching them up as I'm talking to them, and that's what some people don't understand. So I'm not like rejecting a person. I'm trying to put three in three people on stage that a couple different combinations could make sense, age-wise, interest-wise. You know, it's like a dinner party I'm putting together. yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. You're trying to create chemistry. Have you had any love connections that have lasted more than, say, that night? Yes, more than that night, but nothing big, big time yet. ⁓ Yes, yes. No, but there definitely been, there was one show where there was a very popular, sorry, it's my, okay, thank you. Yeah, that's why I preface that or included that. Yeah. As your cat. Yeah. He or she just dipped down the hallway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that's why I preface that or included that. Yeah. As your cat. Yeah. He or she just dipped down the hallway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. did you just see her? That's her here? Yeah, I was like, is that a person? ⁓ Okay, good. So, ⁓ yeah, so we do the show, there's a single mingle at the beginning, and when you walk in, I say, are you single? And they get all freaked out. like, I'm single too, I just wanna put this lei on you. And then they're like, ⁓ I'm lei'd, so it's a funny joke. But it was just the cheapest thing at Party City. That was it, now I'm stuck with this. Yeah. Yeah. That loosens everybody up, they have drinks. So the whole audience is supposed to be single. That's kind of what I, that's the best show, right? And then they sit down and then there's a single mingle afterwards. And then the people that come up on stage, I just bring them up from the audience and it's very exciting for the audience. Like, ooh, who's it gonna be? You know, and you just lean forward and everyone loves getting to know them on stage. so we interview them for five minutes, the comics, hopefully you don't get too, you know, and we say, don't, these are normal people. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. be nice to them, you know, but they have to be funny too, so it's like a weird balance and and then we Right. Right, right. Don't make them look so bad that the other, like the girl doesn't want the guy because you roasted the hell out of the guy. Yeah. Yes. Yes, and honestly, it's usually not the comics fault. I think the men get most nervous and then I have to step in and say, I think what he meant to say about his ex-wife was, Yeah.

Yes. Yes, and honestly, it's usually not the comics fault. I think the men get most nervous and then I have to step in and say, I think what he meant to say about his ex-wife was, Yeah. But anyway, then we pair them together. They have a five minute date on stage. I have a stack of ⁓ cards, like a game night you have at home, and they get through as many of those as possible in five minutes. Bring them all up on stage, and then the audience votes for their favorite couple. It's not like gym class when you weren't picked. Everyone's applauding for everyone. then one couple tends to get, yeah. Yeah. Right, right, right. It's almost like you took your background in reality television and put it into this show. You combined your comedic talent with your reality television experience and created this show, seems. Yes. That's exactly what I did. Yes. That is absolutely correct. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, because I can picture everything you just said and there's so many things I'm like, I kept thinking this could be a reality show. I can picture people laughing their asses off the whole time. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is like that. It's so cool because there are comedy sets throughout too. So I'm like worst-case scenario because everyone you want to spend money on a night out I want to make sure it's good for you, too Yeah. At least you've come home and you've seen comedy, but it's always more than that. It is always more than that. There's an authenticity and a vulnerability in that chair and the comics. I get chills talking about it because I didn't know if it were... it's magic. It's just... it's the special sauce and everybody is laughing so hard. It's really funny. I mean... Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. How long is the set or how long are people there?

Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. How long is the set or how long are people there? It is a long show and nobody has any sense of it. I cannot make the show shorter. It is quite frustrating to me as I watch the clock, but ⁓ it's supposed to be an hour and a half show with a half hour pre and post mingle, but the show always ends up, well, you know, we talk, you said people don't realize the time, though it's the same thing. I don't know where it's almost two hours. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. But that means it's going well, though, because people don't realize. Nobody is restless, they all get frustrated when the dates end. I'm like, nope, that's it, your time's up, sorry. And you know, like, you don't actually get to see them have a real date. ⁓ But yeah, at the end of, then I'm going to Dallas ⁓ to Mic Drop Comedy, which is another comedy chain. ⁓ Yeah. Where are you going after Chicago? Cause you're going to have another date. Okay. So I picked Chicago because I'm from Chicago, so that just seemed like a good, like I'm pilot testing this. I don't know if it's gonna work. I mean, I kinda think it is, because of the people I'm talking to already. They're like, I love that you're doing it. Like, they love it. So it's just about getting the word out, you know? But the people I talk to are like, this is incredible. Thank you for doing this. Nothing like this exists out there. Those are the things you wanna hear, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes. So Dallas, we haven't really had an open conversation about politics, but I think we've shared similar things enough for you to understand that I was a little nervous going into Texas. I'll just say that. And I really need to connect with these people to be on stage, so I'm like, what am I walking into? And I have to tell you, I have put no money into the Dallas show. I was told by a comic, this is why I picked Dallas. Yeah. . that Dallas is known as the big D for divorce. had no idea. So I'm like, all right, then here I go. ⁓ I didn't know that either. Yeah, right. So I posted the ad, I boosted it, that's all I did, and all these women started applying on the website, and I was like, what is happening? And I have a question on there, like, what are your deal breakers? What are your political or religious leanings that are important to you? And they're all just like, no MAGA, no MAGA. Every woman was like, yes, I was shocked. And I got on the phone with all them, like, so I'm confused. When I think Texas, you know, Mm-hmm. Yeah. the women are saying that? wow. Yeah, yeah. So they say they have a hard time finding men who aren't conservative, and that's what they're looking for. And I'm like, all right, well, I'm going in. And so I've been going into Hinge, and I've actually found lots of wonderful men so far. Apparently, Dallas itself is pretty blue and progressive or whatever. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I was just about to say that I think the city. I think this Dallas is the city. There's transplants there to have some diversity of thought.

Mm-hmm. I was just about to say that I think the city. I think this Dallas is the city. There's transplants there to have some diversity of thought. That's what it is. It's so interesting. And there's so many Chicagoans there. But they're all very anxious about sharing their political opinions with me, which I was on the phone with this one woman. And they're gorgeous, these women. I mean, I don't know what is happening there. It's like just cheekbones. She said, yeah, it's really challenging here. It's a lot of competition. If you're not beautiful, you can buy it. I'm like, OK, well, I guess that's Dallas. Gorgeous woman. We're talking. Southern Belle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I said, well, what about your, you know, is there anything you want to tell me? Like political, whatever. And I just kind of looked down. I don't want anyone to feel on the spot. They don't have to answer me. And she kind of looked down and was like, well, I don't want you to hate me. Like, uh-oh, why would I? I really can't. I can't be with those people with red hats. And I'm like, ⁓ OK. But she was worried. So I think for them. Yeah. Right. living there at least I am getting the impression that they don't feel comfortable sharing that opinion. Right. Yeah. It's probably the opposite of like if somebody was in LA, conservative, they're nervous to say that. So again, or if you're in Portland, conservative, you're nervous to say you're conservative. So now you're in Dallas and they're nervous to say that they're liberal. So it just depends on where you are. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it totally depends on where, where you are on, you know, the flip. Yes. That's exactly what it is. Yes. Yes. Yeah, and I find it fascinating. This is amazing to me finding, Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Yes. That's exactly what it is. Yes. Yes. Yeah, and I find it fascinating. This is amazing to me finding, Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And then there's places it's all mixed What is the what's the setup of the theater? Like, because we have a place here in Boca. It's called the Boca Black Box. I would check it out. It's but I don't know if it's the right it's the right size, I would think. But I don't know if it's the right layout. They have seats and. Well, how many people how big is your audience usually? cool. Well that's the scary part about Dallas and Chicago. I'm jumping from a 79 seat theater to a 250 seat theater. Well, yeah. Well, I mean, it's only cool if have more than 30 people show up. But I'm going with it, man. It's fine. We're just. Wow, that is so cool. That is so cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I am trying to be cool with the fact that like, of course Julie, you're gonna take it to any town. This is about spreading the word. Like, this is why you're doing But it's hard, because I'm such a perfectionist. I mean, I'm not a perfectionist, you know what I mean? Is that like a thing too? Yeah. I don't wanna fail. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, yeah. At least with Dallas, have enough, you have more time for like, you know, where Chicago, like how long have you had to, you don't have as much advertising, right? Sunday is going to be the first time on the. ⁓ Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's brutal. It's brutal. But it's already moving. It's moving. I... It'll be fine. It'll be fine. There's a lot of people there. If you're going to the Tribune, 250 seats or 270? If that does, that should do it because that's what did it for ⁓ our first show here. There's something about somebody reading it in the, I don't know.

If that does, that should do it because that's what did it for ⁓ our first show here. There's something about somebody reading it in the, I don't know. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And it's such a new concept that nobody's done that I think if you saw that and read about it, you'd be like, oh my I'm going to go check this out. It's not it's new. It's different. And people are always open to something new coming into their area because they're sick of all the same stuff. So, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if at least I think Chicago for it will definitely you'll be good. I think Dallas, it's sounding just from what you're saying. You got all these women that were I think Dallas, the word is going to spread. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it sounds like. Men and women are both applying and ⁓ I'm surprised. I thought the men were really gonna get aggressive with me on the hinge, but they have not. I've only gotten a couple. Well, I didn't see, I'm like, okay. just, know. Do you wanna talk to me or not? Like I don't, it's cool, it's cool, man. It's not for you. Like let's move on, you know? Like. Just one night, yes. And. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. They were good. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just one night, right? In each. So then are you going to continue on in different cities, different towns? Not, I mean, yes, but not yet. I was like, let me just try these two. I foolishly decided to have one tomorrow here in LA, because I got really cocky off the last show, because Kathy Griffin was on it, it was sold out, and I'm like, yeah. That was crazy, it was amazing. ⁓ A friend of mine, a comic, was like, hey, a girlfriend of mine wants to be on your Big D show. I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever. And she said, it's Kathy Griffin. I'm like, what? Yes, of course.

Okay. wow. That's all that. Yeah. That's cool. It was so crazy, but she wanted to be a bachelorette. And like, that's even cooler. And so she was. And to answer your question, Brian, she really liked this guy. He likes her. They're gonna go out. I don't know what's gonna happen, but I... Yeah. She was amazing. Yeah. And I met her in the back, ⁓ the green room. And I was worried. I was like... my gosh. Yeah, you know, that's cool. That is so awesome. That is so awes- Was that the first time you'd met her? this isn't like a celebrity thing, what's it gonna be like, is she gonna be cool? She was totally cool, she hung out in the green room and I went back, I could tell, she got there late so I went back there to say hi to her and my friend said, this is Julie, she created the show and Cathy put her arm around me, we took a picture and she's like, you did? You are a badass, no women ever produced comedy back when I was coming up. And I just thought if my mom could hear that, that would have been like, yeah. ⁓ my god. Yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah, that was incredible. Think about where you were two years ago when you first started this. Yeah. Take Kathy Griffin putting her arm around you telling you about, mean, that's. That's my surreal. It was... That was... that was... Yeah. Yeah. That was... You know, there's so few moments in life where you stop and go, ⁓ Yeah, that's one of them. I was in the moment. I was like, my god. It was... And such a sign to keep going with this. You know, that this is something, you know, and to keep going with it. That's very cool. You know, because she's been in the game forever.

And such a sign to keep going with this. You know, that this is something, you know, and to keep going with it. That's very cool. You know, because she's been in the game forever. Yeah. Yes, yeah, it was very cool. yeah, no, she loved it, she put nice things on her website about it. Like everyone that's done the show, every comic is like, this is different. Like the audience, why are they so happy? I'm like, because we're telling them stuff they want to hear. Like this, know exactly who this crowd is. You know, usually you have to go in and... That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. You have to do little sleuthing work, you burn a lot of time at the top, like do they want your sex jokes, they want your mom jokes, what is this group, you know? I know exactly, I walk out and I'm like, are there any divorced people in audience? They're like, woo! You know, they don't have to feel bad about themselves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's so true. Gosh, what do you think most of your ⁓ demographic is Gen X? That's the target, because I always say we're not the Golden Bachelor, we're not the Bachelorette. I mean, as of now, the show is definitely an extension of me, like who I connect with. So yeah, like 50 to 55 is kind of that sweet spot. But I've also had, I say the age range is 40 to 60. I've had younger folks on there as well. Yeah. Mm-hmm. because if they've been divorced, you know, but I make sure if I have somebody younger than I have somebody younger. Like I don't, I try not to have crazy ages all over the map because actually people don't want that. You will be happy to know when I ask men who they're, and I'm like, there's no judgment. I swear you can be honest with me. They don't want the young ones. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ They want their age.

Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ They want their age. their age or like around their age I don't know that whole I mean I think there are like some gross guys out there that are like I want to be with the Yeah, that's our neighborhood. What? That's a South Florida thing. That's ⁓ the age disparity is pretty. yeah. Is that an L.A. thing too? We've definitely got a sugar daddy. What do they call the girls? The sugar. Yeah. Yeah. We in South Florida, you see that a lot. The white age. Yeah. Yeah. Sugar Daddy, Sugar Baby. That's huge here. I'm not saying it's not huge here, but for this show, these are people you would know. You know what mean? Like, you would be at the show. So I think, much like me, all these people, if I think about it, are looking for somebody they could have been in college with. They're looking for something that feels like home, that feels familiar, and yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, that makes sense. You know, it's just you really have created this space for Gen Xers that have had a divorce to come and really try to find somebody or at least be around people that can relate to them. They don't have to explain certain things probably. And it resonates with them. And I'm sure as funny as it is. Yes, yes. There's also that joy that ⁓ people are feeling off your audience. They can probably relax and just be themselves. It's an outlet. It's an outlet. That's awesome. That's cool.

Yes, yes. There's also that joy that ⁓ people are feeling off your audience. They can probably relax and just be themselves. It's an outlet. It's an outlet. That's awesome. That's cool. it is. Yeah, nobody's walking out to them going, how could you be single? It's like, that is the stupidest question on the planet. and I can't even, everybody in that audience is basically choosing to be single at this point too. There's a very interesting shift happening, dating with intention of what do I want? Cause I don't really need anything now. Like these are very, the people that are drawn to the show are very content people who have typically done the work. They feel kind of whole. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I don't know how many of there'd be, but there's a lot of them. That's what I'm trying to figure out, you know? like that's a gold mine because there's so many people out there that are not like that. So that's a gold mine right there. That's huge. Right, yeah. So the question is do I start digging into the other groups to keep the show going? I don't know. That's after I sell the rights. Well, so are mom jokes still being told? They don't seem to be told. I grew up on mom jokes. jokes. Mom jokes. Are they still? OK. or what? Oh no, there's a lot. Yeah, we have a, in fact, great question because it's Gen X mom jokes now. So it's very edgy humor. It's all about, I mean, my set has changed because I didn't like it. It was very much like, kids today, you know, I'm like, I don't know. You know, part of that, to me it's more interesting, what have I done to contribute to this? So I used to this joke about like, Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. It wasn't a joke. My son threatened to run away when we were having a fight once. And at first I was terrified and also I'm like, no, I'm my mother. I'm going 3,000 miles away. It's happening again. He hates me. I failed. And then I realized it's absolutely ludicrous. He's not going anywhere ⁓ because he has no life skills. But then I added this line later and now I like the joke. I didn't like it before. Now I added a line where it's like, because we haven't given them any. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You added the self-deprecating humor to it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so many Gen Xers can relate to that. In fact, I would think most Gen X parents can relate to that. This didn't happen out of nowhere, you know? Exactly, exactly. And I notice you go, They all can. I see a lot of this in the audience when I do it. Yes. Yeah. that's... Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And this is to me is the best... If you could thread this needle out there, because I've definitely played to conservative crowds and my very first time I bombed big time and it was horrible. It was in New Mexico at a casino. Everybody was married. It was total Trump country. And I... Yes. Like we all know we did it. I knew not to do my divorce material. Like I have my like, I'm a divorce mom having sex or not having sex. Like I have all those jokes. And then I have the kids today and me raising him. And I was so, it was my first 30 minute feature spot. And I was so nervous I wouldn't have enough material if I didn't do the divorce stuff. And I knew not to do it. I knew it. But I got up there and I'm like, anybody divorced in here? it was like, no. It was just dead silence. And, ⁓ Right. Was there anyone? god.

Right. Was there anyone? god. And I feel like all they heard from that point forward was just, whore, whore, whore, whore, whore, know? Like they were not having it. And as soon as I started talking about mom stuff, they warmed up and they were laughing. ⁓ So my point is, I do find that the mom stuff, I try not to like throw away my jokes. I try and find a way to tell them in a way that can appeal to anybody. Right. Right. without sacrificing my point of view or my belief system. It's hard to do, but it's really satisfying when you do. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure. And that's another ⁓ moment of growth and uncomfortableness. Yeah. Yeah. And when you do it, you're you're probably like, know, you're you're pulled off. Yeah, yeah. That's cool. Do you think he'll come out to Florida ever? Huge! my god, yes. Cause I really, I'm not... ⁓ it's huge! Yeah. I mean, yeah, sure. Yeah. If you do, have to let us know. We'd love to come see it. We'll be the married couple. anywhere in the South, because we, you know, we go up. We all over the. We love the road trip. So we'll drive up to Georgia, the Carolinas, Tennessee. Like Texas is too big. It's too big. It takes us six hours to get out of Florida heading to Texas. And then you're like another. So that one. But we'll drive pretty far. So. my god. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously we're we're going to keep an eye on everything you're but he doesn't like to fly anymore and stand flying anymore. But. That's crazy. It's crazy. But so not even just Florida, but if you come anywhere else in the south other than Texas, we we want to come for real. The Boka Black Box is a really cool venue.

Noah. Well now who can blame you? No, I'm going to, because also, is some place in... There are a couple of clubs I was told, should really check it out there. I don't know if it was, I can't remember the name. There are all these names. They're all the silliest names. Like McCabs, corn on the comedy, or I don't know. you know. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Boca Black Box is cool. And if you ever ⁓ are told anything around in South Florida, we can always, you can reach out to us if you ever want to know more about it and we can look into it too. have divorced friends. Yeah. Yeah. So. All right. ⁓ we do. Yeah, we have divorced We do have divorced friends. Yeah, collaboration, as the kids say. That reaction is exactly why started the show. always say, you marrieds never think about us, so we have to think about ourselves. You're like, I do have a bunch of divorced friends. We're just, I know, yes. Yeah, they're so cute, yeah. They're crazy independent lifestyle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We do. We do. cute. Yeah. Those kids. Yeah. No, we do. We do. We totally do. So, OK. They would be pretty good. They would be great. They have personalities. ⁓ yes. And they're very pretty. Yeah. I I'm good. This is how I'm picking where I take the show. I have to have a foothold in somewhere. So to know you guys will be amazing. Like done. Yeah. Yeah. Anything we can do to help. So and we know some men, too. So but OK, so. All right, yeah, we know men, dwarfs, men, dwarfs, women. doesn't want the husband and the previous wife. no, but we know some that aren't connected. Yeah. So yeah, no. Well, if you ever want to come to South Florida, we can help. Yeah, for sure. I'm just so impressed with the.

You said all the magic words. You know divorce people. Yes. Yeah, no I love it, I love it. Consider it as soon as I get through July. what you've created in such a short amount of time. Like tackling this new adventure in your life with comedy and where you are now with it, creating something so unique and different, it's so impressive, so cool. ⁓ Thank you. I love it. I think if you do something... sounds so cheesy, brrrr, but I think you guys can relate. If you love what you're doing, it just kind of starts growing like you guys. People smell it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And again, I think. Yeah, yes, because it's authentic. Yeah, because it's authentic. You're not pretending it's not fake. And you're coming from a good place. That's also it, too. It's coming from a good place. I just think it's really cool how you just took kind of a leap of faith and and it worked. And now it's resonating and it's building a life of its own. You don't have it figured out. You don't have a master plan, but it's coming together and it's resonating with people. Yeah. Yes. Yes. I mean, that it gives me kind of goosebumps to think that you're in the studio or the theater. I can picture people laughing their asses off, having a good time. And then you're almost like, I can't believe this is happening. That's really cool. Congratulations. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ It, it, it, thank you. That is exactly the feeling. Like it is torture leading up to it. And then as soon as I take this stage, well, there's also something when I take the stage, like, well, it's going to be what it's going to be. Like at that point, you just, you know, but once it starts, yes, it is. Yes.

Yeah, it's a leap of faith. And yeah, if it works, takes courage, and it's very Gen X of you to just go for it. So yeah, absolutely. So listen, the last question I always ask our guests is, where do see yourself in five years? Right? Yeah. Well, first of all, have to say, I'm embarrassed to say, I don't like that I'm gonna be older in five years. I don't know if you feel that way. Like I like that I'm reinventing age, but I'm like, slow down. I like what I'm doing now. Yeah. Yeah. But that being said, where I wanna be, ⁓ I want to just, I wanna be a professional comic. I want this to be my livelihood. I want this show to be a success. I want... I know, I know, it's going too fast. me performing to be a success, I just want to be able to do comedy. ⁓ And I feel like I don't even... If this thing grows and keeps growing, I'm not even sure what it really will be. I feel like it's got weird potential. I know that sounds strange, but I don't even know what it's gonna look like, you know? I mean, it could be in other countries. It could be ⁓ a board game that you play at home. It could be a reality TV show. just, so many a friend of mine was like, this should be a reality TV show. I'm like, you go sell it. I am tired of reality TV, so. Yeah. Yeah. Sure, if somebody comes and dumps the money truck, I am all for it. yeah, I just want to see it keep growing in the community and people and... I think that's been the coolest part about this is this developing community. Like I lost a bachelorette yesterday for the show tomorrow. I could not sleep last night. That was not the testosterone. That was me going, what have I done? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Lay off the cream.

Mm-hmm. Lay off the cream. And then I woke up in the morning and I remembered all these different, like the people I've gotten to know through this show, it's crazy. I'm like, I need to ask them. Maybe they know somebody, maybe they don't. You know, it was just like, it was like the Avengers came together because they all love the show so much. So they're telling people, you know, and then people trust me. Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like you're creating a Gen X cultural movement, again, by creating this space. it would be and I think it will tumbleweed or snowball. And because word of mouth, everyone talking because it's unique, it's different. No one's ever seen it before. And I think our generation could use something like that. And we're always up for something new. Yeah. So we're not scared of that. So I wouldn't be surprised if it does expand and evolve and change. Yes. Well, right back at you. We'll be ⁓ writing our dreams together, so. But you guys have been hugely successful. You've got incredible numbers. How long have you had the podcast? W-w-w-w-w- ⁓ I think less than a year. So I think August, the end of August is when we up the studio around started setting it up in March. And then our first video out, think, in August, end of August. That'll be our first our one year is at the end of August. So it's been awesome. We just again are so honored that people will share their life story with us. We cherish that. ⁓ here you are telling me how, look at you guys. That's incredible. That's amazing.

⁓ here you are telling me how, look at you guys. That's incredible. That's amazing. and what we've been able to experience through learning about people and what they've gone through. then also our goal was honestly, if just one person feels seen and less alone by something they hear from another person's life story, then that's the whole point. It's just, especially, I mean, men too, definitely men, but especially women because Yeah. Yes. Yeah. There's so many women that go through so many things, especially around our age. And it's not talked about enough, but men too. I know some of our shorts sometimes get people mad. It sounds like I'm always ragging on the men. And I don't mean it that way. we just it's a way we're trying to help people feel connected by sharing stories, you know. And then sometimes Brian and I will talk about topics that we feel people, not just our age, but that people would like to hear. Yes. the male and female conversation about and neither one is bashing the other. We're just truly having a discussion about it. Almost like if you were sitting here just listening to us talk about something. So that was kind of the concept. that. It's beautiful and it's why I responded to you. was like, it was like strumming a pain with your fingers. It really was. So I think we actually have the same goal, agenda if you will. Hearing you talk about what you want, I'm thinking that's kind what we want to do. And in some ways, I don't think you're trying to steer it in a specific direction you're seeing where it goes with some semblance of a core value. And I think we've got this core value of just being authentic, really, right? And then we'll see where it goes. And that's been the exciting part. And it kind of sounds like you're sort of doing the same thing.

Yeah. Yes. Exactly. Same, because it's such a, I think at our age too, I don't know about you guys, but there is like a Buddhist detachment that we all start to accept. Like, I'm not forcing anything into anything. I'm not forcing a guy to get on the phone with me. I'm not forcing a reluctant person to be in the show. I'm not forcing a club, it's happening, okay. I like this thing, and it's growing, and it's opening up to me, and I try and just stay in that mentality. it's. Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. much as I'm like, wonder if it started comedy 20 years ago. I wasn't even myself 20 years ago. You know what I mean? Like I have the... Yeah. Right. Yeah. Now you had you have to be where you were for it to happen. You had to get to that place for it to happen the way it's happening. And the way I view it is if you're creating something and it's coming from a good, positive, genuine, authentic place and you create whatever it is, the art that you're creating, and then you put it out there, it's no longer your responsibility anymore because it now belongs to whoever receives it. And however they receive it doesn't have anything to do with you anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. because you just, know where the source is positive and good intention. And so it takes off the pressure because you're proud of what you're putting out there. It doesn't really matter. It's great if people receive and it resonates, but the process was the satisfaction. Does that make sense?

Yeah. totally. I mean, the part nobody sees in the show is when I have my initial talk with people and I always say, it's usually worth the man. I don't know why that is, but I think because I know that you guys are not taught to emote as much, right? You're shamed and just suppressing your feelings. So I always take a moment and say, the way, just let me begin by saying I'm so sorry for your loss because it doesn't matter who left. It's a death and I'm really sorry. And they always stop and go, thank you. Because nobody wants to talk about divorce except divorce people. It's depressing. I don't know. It's like, and yeah, I wish this had existed. Something like this had existed when I first got out. It's a very lonely process. So when I see somebody's eyes light up a little bit and I tell them it gets better and they say thank you, it's like, it's a great feeling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I love that you do that with the men because you're so right. No, I mean, that's girls too, but the boys really did not get any ⁓ attention when it came to emotional development. None. So and then there are these men now and they've gone through a lot of pain themselves. So it's awesome that you recognize that. We were guided to push it all in. She was talking about it. So press it. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, like Homer Simpson, shove it down. Yeah, shove it down. Well, listen, Julie, we can't thank you enough for coming on and sharing your story and talking about the big D dating show. I'm so excited to watch the progress of that. I hope you come to Florida so we can even if you came to Tampa, we would drive to see you. would drive in Florida to see you. ⁓ We will be there and we will help you find people.

No. How about this? I'm coming to Florida. It's happening. There. That's the Gen X way. We're not gonna, yeah. We're making this happen. Yes. All right, that sounds good. if anyone for our listeners, if you're in Chicago, July 3, the Big D dating show will be there. We were we're going to link ⁓ Julie's socials and the Big D dating show information in the description of the podcast. ⁓ if they want to like, let's say they as soon as they hear this, they want to where do they go to get tickets? ⁓ They can either go to my website ⁓ the big D dating show.com But that will probably annoy them because that just takes you to Zanies Rosemont So if they just go to Zanies Rosemont directly to the seller that's they're selling the tickets themselves So Zanies Rosemont is who's selling yeah, yeah Mike drop it's called Mike drop comedy and it's they have to ⁓ Okay. ⁓ Zanies Rosemont in Chicago and then in Dallas. What's the name of the? They have two clubs there. This one's in Plano, Texas, which I've been told is part of the Dallas-Fort Worth-Plano area. It's all kind of one area. Yes, exactly. Yeah. it's yeah, it's urban sprawl. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy there. So Mike dropped comedy in Plano, Texas and go straight there or go to your website for that. Okay. Yeah, mic drop. The website's good if they wanna know more about the show, see some videos on the show, ⁓ kind of see how it works, but if you just wanna go straight to the tickets, go right to the club. That's July 17th, and I do not have that cast yet, although I do have lots of lovely women, and I do have two men. God, that's almost cast. But the casting goes on up until the show, because if I suddenly see an interesting match, And when is Dallas? When yeah when's Dallas. So hit me up, y'all. Yeah. Yeah.

And when is Dallas? When yeah when's Dallas. So hit me up, y'all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, if anyone's interested. Yeah, July 17th. And if any of our listeners have any comments, questions, ⁓ especially about the Big D dating show, we will get the answers from Julie for you ⁓ or Julie herself will answer them for you. But please don't hesitate to leave any comments or any questions or any experiences you have yourself if you want to share about if you're divorced and. You're in the dating world and you'd like to share those experiences. We would love to hear that too. So again, thank you, Julie, for joining us. And we look forward to having you back in the future so we can hear more about what the Big D Dating Show is doing. And thank you to our listeners. We'll see you next time. Bye. I can't wait. I one bonus thing. wait, we have a bonus. We've got time. Yes, no, no, we can edit it. What's the bonus? Okay, the bonus thing is I forgot I did this other thing. If you're starting your own business, and I don't know where you guys are with this, you gotta get sponsors. ⁓ Anyway, I this incredible clothing rental company that just came on board to sponsor me. It's called Arm War Style. It's a very hard word for me to say. It's like Rent the Runway. I don't know if you're familiar with that company. But these are these, they're... No, I know what you're the concept. Yeah. Yes.

No, I know what you're the concept. Yeah. Yes. They're rental clothing companies, which is good for the environment and on your packet book. So you pay a monthly subscription or you can just do it be one and done and you get like six different looks sent to you. So they're gonna start sending me looks, but more importantly at the shows, I'm giving away a free glow up unlimited membership to Armoire. If you use the big D, I can't remember what it is. Oh, I'm screwing this up. We'll put it on the post somewhere. Yeah, we're giving away one month unlimited memberships at the shows. It's going to be done through raffle. It's like a $250 value. ⁓ And then also, if you just want to check out Armoire and sign up for it, you can get up to a 50 % discount and some other bonus items if you just put the Big D dating show. I did my first. Yes. All right. That's awesome. Okay, and we'll include that in the description. Yeah, so it's, what's it called again? Armour? ⁓ armoire style. Armour style. Yeah, we have something like that in Florida and I can't remember the name of it, but I know exactly what you're talking about. Armour style and we will attach the information for Armour. I can't, I can never say that. Armour. No, that's awesome. They're doing that though. So, we'll get the promo code. We'll get the promo code. So anything else? Because we can edit. No, we got it all? Okay. All right. So. Yeah. That's a very hard word to say. Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. No, that's it. No, that's it. Yeah. I think that's it. Yeah.

Yeah. That's a very hard word to say. Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. No, that's it. No, that's it. Yeah. I think that's it. Yeah. Again, any of our listeners... on one minute once we're wrapped up here. we'll wrap it up. So thank you again, Julie, for joining us. And again, any of our listeners want to leave any comments or questions, please do. We love to hear from you. And we will see you next time. Bye. We can talk. I'm going to cut this out. I'm just trying to find my mouth. Usually I'm not allowed to talk. Oh, wait. I need to keep this on. I'm so used to taking it off because the person's in the studio. And then we talk. But I have to stay connected. Can you get the thing? Yeah, I'll figure it out. OK. How do you feel that went? okay. That's hilarious. ⁓ You guys, this was so fun. my God, it was amazing. I seriously like the, there's nothing like talking to people in your generation. That's why what you're doing is so special and what I'm doing is so special. is so, that was so amazing. I made crazy connections through talking with you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's awesome. It's almost like we're hearing each other, like we're giving a voice to each other and we're listening to each other to validate each other. you know, from where we came from, we're like, wait, what was your dream? Tell me about your dream. You know, and somebody wants to listen and talk and know it's awesome. It's awesome. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And I love that you guys, because I also feel like there's so much hack stuff out there with like, Gen X, you know, it's like, I don't want to hear about the that you drink. Like, I don't want to hear about that. That's not interesting. What's it?

I know. I know. Now, Gen X, they've gotten, they've taken it's almost become a parody of ourselves where it's like drink from the garden hose and we have a chip on our shoulder and don't fuck with Gen X. But it's like, okay, like that's sure that's funny. But there's a whole other side to us. And that's what I think is finally getting shown. Yeah. And then there's it's funny because then you'll see Gen X just come on under some of our posts and they're like, we don't talk about trauma. Gen X just deals with it. And it's like, come on. Yeah. But I think you're right. Like, I think that whole perception. Also, the younger generations won't approach us if we keep saying we're assholes. We don't want to talk to you. Ew. Yeah. ⁓ No, I feel like the same people that say, we don't talk about our emotions, like you gotta be hard, know? Non-binary, these kids today, I hate all that stuff and I don't know who's the majority of Gen X are, I hope it's us, you know? But I don't know. Yeah. I hope so. It's not a flex. It's not a flex to live within, you know, to not grow and to not try to heal and not try to evolve. That's not a flex. And I think that's what's for so many. It's like, we don't need to do that. It's like, no, we obviously do, because a lot of us have had some issues. No. Yeah, rigidity is nothing to be proud of. it's the grind. think our ability to grind it out. I think we're incredibly powerful survivors, but we're survivors. Like, you have to unpack that.

No. Yeah, rigidity is nothing to be proud of. it's the grind. think our ability to grind it out. I think we're incredibly powerful survivors, but we're survivors. Like, you have to unpack that. No, no, so. Yeah, and after a while, it's you don't want to be in fight or flight anymore. You don't want to have your nervous system always ready because that's how we've been since we were little. We've just what's next? Because you couldn't trust in the situation, the environment. So we've been in fight or flight, always getting through. It's OK if at this point in our life we kind of go downshift and are like, what do we want to do? And it's OK if we give that to ourselves. Right. Yeah. And I just think, I'm proud of us because the whole where I feel like we're at a point in our lives where the grind talent that what we got from the grinding when it meets like our healing journey or we've resolved some stuff and we're actually authentically putting our dreams as a priority. If you meld those two together, it's like you can't miss. Do you know what I mean? You can't miss. Yeah, totally. No, and that's what I love, all the friendships I have with some young people in this comedy world. I think the reason they like leaning on me is, well, I guess they have Gen X moms too. It's very weird. The 30 year olds, I guess they have older Gen X. But I'm like, re-parenting a lot of the kids out here, because I'm the parent that they didn't have that I didn't have, you know.

Yeah. Yeah, think the like some of the millennials because 30s millennial, I think they had boomers. Some of them, a lot of the millennials had boomer. The majority of millennials had boomer parents and then the younger millennials like that had older Gen X or middle, know, middle Gen X and some of them even had boomers. So I think the most of us our age are Gen Z. Like we have, we are the Gen Z parents. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's not that GenX, some of them did have millennials, but ⁓ most of