Episode 5 - The Phases of Life

[Music] Welcome to Gen X Adulting. This is episode five. And today we are talking about stages of life. And not in some heavy psychological terms, but just how the first part of your life is mostly mapped out and scripted for us as young kids, right? And the second half of our lives and even beyond are kind of more of an open book, an unscripted experience. And... I mean, so in the beginning of your life, you go to elementary school, you go to middle school or junior high, high school, and then some people from there go on to get a job, and then some people go on to college. And then the next step, marriage, kids, raise those kids. And then you're at the second part of your life. This is the traditional way that life has been set up by our society for, at least for Americans, I can say that. Yeah. And so for us as Gen X, and probably a lot of Gen Xers can relate to this, we're both... Well, I'm 53, you'll be 53 soon. I think that we're now to the point we're raising... Our youngest is still here, we're raising him. Again, I don't know if we've touched on this yet, but we have an openness concept of our family where our kids... The nest is always open. They can always return home. Our daughter lives with us, since graduated from college last May while she's working and saving money. Our oldest son had moved in with us after graduating college, moved out and then did move back in again, and then now he's out. So we have a kind of a swinging door philosophy. Parenting never ends for us, but that said, as far as the true hands-on parenting, we're down to our youngest one who will be starting high school in the fall. And we have more time on our hands, I guess I could say, to kind of sit back. I think you and I both

we're down to our youngest one who will be starting high school in the fall. And we have more time on our hands, I guess I could say, to kind of sit back. I think you and I both sat back and thought about, "Okay, how do we want this second half of our life to go?" Because it's not mapped out. This almost feels like the third part, though, because you've got the first part you talked about, the formative years, elementary school, maybe into college. You get married, that's sort of the unscripted part in my mind. It's not like you grow up thinking, "Okay, I'll get married to have kids." You don't really know what the hell that means. What it entails, there's plenty of books on it, but none of it's... It all just happens and it becomes kind of a blur. Now, as we've gotten to the point we're at now, this is another unchartered territory, I guess, different phase. I'd say there's at least three. See, and it's funny because I view children and raising children as part of that first half outline. Granted, there's no instruction booklet for raising children, and every child is different and every way of parenting is different. But that idea of these are the steps you follow through life. Having, in general, I know there's a lot of people out there that have chosen to be childless or choosing to be childless, and a lot of people that are choosing to not get married. So I'm using generalities here, and especially for Gen X. Well, it's also more your generality or your truth in a sense. Yeah, and my generation. I'm speaking for my generation, and I think millennials kind of followed this playbook. Gen Z, they seem to be kind of changing the playbook a little bit, a little more open-minded about some things. But so we had steps we took.

and I think millennials kind of followed this playbook. Gen Z, they seem to be kind of changing the playbook a little bit, a little more open-minded about some things. But so we had steps we took. We go to school, we graduate. Some of us go to college, graduate, get married, have kids, raise our kids. And then you're, for some people, empty nesters. For us, open nesters. And you have this kind of open... What's the word? Just this open playbook or this blank page, I guess. It's very unscripted. It's completely unscripted. Yeah. And so I think it's such an interesting time where you really can sit back and either say, "Okay, I'm just going to chill and relax." And I mean, for a lot of people, most people, you're still working. And for a lot of us, we're taking care of elderly parents. But in general, there is still... There is a little bit of that more free time again, or time at least to kind of decide what you want to do, as opposed to just having this obligatory agenda that you have to follow. Yeah. I'm looking forward to when you just chill. That's a very nebulous concept. But I think where you're going is you have the kids and you grind and you're all over the place. And we're still half... We've got a half a foot in that with a soon to be high school kid. But you do have more time. So it's not like every weekend is consumed. It's not like, "Okay, Saturday, what are we doing? We're going to play baseball." Or, "We're going to play soccer." Or, "There's a dance recital." Or whatever. There is... "Okay, whoa, are weekends actually open? Okay, cool. What do we want to do?" Yeah. More so, I think that's kind of where you're going, right? Yeah. And also, yes. And even in the evenings, you're not giving young children baths anymore.

Okay, cool. What do we want to do?" Yeah. More so, I think that's kind of where you're going, right? Yeah. And also, yes. And even in the evenings, you're not giving young children baths anymore. You're not chasing them around. There's not that chaos. Chaos of raising children is done in general. I mean, we're going into high school again. That's a whole other chaos. But... And college. But that physical... And maybe I'm speaking as the mother, because I was a stay-at-home mom. So most of my time, I went to school, I went to college, I got married, I had kids. And most of my time was taking care of those children. So for me, as our last one is becoming way more independent, significantly more independent, it's allowed me to kind of look around my life and say, "Okay, wow, what do I want to do with this next half of my life?" Now I have written a book and I am a writer. I do work part-time writing, but I still am able to kind of not reinvent myself, but almost say, "Okay, well, what do you want to do now that you... When you grow up, what do you... That opportunity?" Yeah. Instead of being sad that my time of raising children is coming to an end, I'm excited because I get to kind of rediscover who I am and what I... My own thoughts and my own hopes and dreams just from myself as opposed to as a mother or a wife. I finally have some space to devote to me. So I guess, yeah, speaking as a woman and a mom, that's where I'm at. It's kind of that, "What do I want to be when I grow up?" I'm still wondering that. I still question, "What do I want to be when I grow up?" And I'm not really sure. It was interesting for the difference probably in some ways for us is you're the primary caregiver and always have been. And I'm obviously here and

And I'm not really sure. It was interesting for the difference probably in some ways for us is you're the primary caregiver and always have been. And I'm obviously here and along for the ride, but I also... I've had hobbies over the years where you might... When it's time to maybe where you might have a hobby, it's like, "Okay, I need to refuel." And where I've had hobbies. So interesting you brought that up because there's this phenomenon about asking women what their hobbies are. And for those of us who have children and a lot of women work outside the home, so you're working all day and then you're raising children, there isn't really as much of a space to have hobbies. And it's kind of like, "Well, my hobbies are that I made..." You make dinner, I got up, I went to work, I'm raising children. Like to your point where you just said, "My hobby is I got to take a bath alone." Or, "I got to sit alone quietly for an hour. That's my hobby." Or, "I was alone in the car today." You think... Is that a common theme amongst your group of girlfriends? Because I'm a serial hobbyist. You are. Right? I've been to photography, gardening, hydroponic gardening. We've always had a fish tank forever. It's been my hobby. I've had several other... whatever. I'm a serial hobbyist. You are. Yeah. Do you find... Do you think your friends are in that same camp of... They don't have hobbies, it's just chilling with a glass of wine maybe as a hobby or... And not in a bad way, but you know what I mean. Yeah. I think at least when women are in the mud, when they're in it, as I say, when they are easing the kids and holding down the house and working and doing all the things, I don't think there's time and energy for a hobby.

mud, when they're in it, as I say, when they are easing the kids and holding down the house and working and doing all the things, I don't think there's time and energy for a hobby. Now, some women can pull it off. I think for some women getting involved with volunteering in school, which I did do that quite a bit when they were younger, but some women volunteering a lot in school. Now, some women exercise, like Pilates, tennis, pickleball, walking. That would be considered something that they do, going to the gym and probably going to lunch or coffee with your girlfriends. What you're describing is such a privileged lifestyle concept, frame of mind. Yes. The thought of, I'm going to go work out. A lot of people work two, three, four jobs, right? The concept of a hobby is not even really out there. I don't even think the concept of a hobby, you're right, by the way, but I don't even think the concept of a hobby, when you compare how men view hobbies and women, is the same. Because I think inherently women are holding down, whether they're working one job, no job, one job, two job, three jobs, they're holding down the crux of family life, whether they're married or a single mom, they're holding it down. You're doing that until your kids are pretty much out of the house. No matter what's going on and whatever demographic you are, there really isn't a time for hobbies. Men will just be like, "I'm going golfing on Saturday." Yeah, or fishing. Or, "I'm going fishing." They have no problem just dating it. Women aren't like, "I'm going golfing on Saturday." Like women, it would be like, "Wait, what? Who's going to watch the kids? What are you talking about? How long are you going to be gone? When are you coming back? Da da da da. What am I supposed to do?"

be like, "Wait, what? Who's going to watch the kids? What are you talking about? How long are you going to be gone? When are you coming back? Da da da da. What am I supposed to do?" Men can just say it and leave. And I think that freedom... It's a beautiful thing. Right. Yeah, it's a nice thing. So I think that freedom allows them to have quote unquote hobbies, because they just do because someone else is holding down the foundation of the home and existence. Now, I'm not saying they don't work and they don't bring in money because that holds everything down too. But I'm talking about more being present. They just kind of have no issues with just saying they're going to go do something and they do it. And women, with the way our society is, women just don't do that. And we also were so busy doing so many things. We get so tired that by the time you could go do something, most of the time you don't want to because you're tired. Yeah. And that's how it is. So I think when for women, when you get to that second half of your life, there's time. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. Two things come to mind. I do agree that it is easier for a guy to be like, hey, I'm going to go do this and whatever. And when I think of the people we know, they're probably... In a very similar situation, most of your girlfriends probably do need to stick around and take care of things. But now that you've opened it up, I think, you know, there's a lot of people that get a lot of couples that get divorced at this stage in their lives, too, right? Where it's like, all right, put up with your shit all these years and I'm done. I'm done with your shit. I'm done taking care of the house. I'm out. Yes. Yeah. It's very interesting. I know there's a ton of...

your shit all these years and I'm done. I'm done with your shit. I'm done taking care of the house. I'm out. Yes. Yeah. It's very interesting. I know there's a ton of... There's a lot of women that are done, that are just like... Oh, that's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They've had enough. Yeah. They're like, I'm done cooking for you, cleaning for you, taking care of everything for you. I'm out. Yeah. I'm going to have self-care now and take care of myself. I'm done taking care of your shit. And I think what's interesting about the Gen Z women in their 20s is a lot of them are really holding space for that time of their life to let it be okay to not be married, to not be chasing for that relationship and to let it be their time, their self-care time, their me time, where they take the chances, travel, go after the different jobs, get the massage, just do whatever they want. Have hobbies. You know, they have their... read the books, have the hobbies. Instead of having to be a placeholder until you get married, which is how my generation, Gen X, we pretty much in general, we were, okay, we're doing this until we get married. Like we're living our lives until we get married. Like once you get married is when your real life starts. Yeah. Yeah. You settle down. And then you're like, okay, now I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, where these Gen X women are like, no, this is a real part of my life. This isn't a placeholder until I get married. I am honoring this time of my life. I love it. I admire it. And I find it just inspiring. I really find them inspiring. So I think for women that are Gen X, that it sounds like a TikTok thing, where a bunch of women your age are out there posting TikTok videos on this topic, would you say?

So I think for women that are Gen X, that it sounds like a TikTok thing, where a bunch of women your age are out there posting TikTok videos on this topic, would you say? I haven't seen them. Flexing their independence or their... I'm in charge now type of thing. No, I haven't seen a lot of that on TikTok, but I have definitely seen some stuff like women have just, they're done, you know, and they want to have their own time. Like, as I was about to say, You're telling me something here? Yeah, no, not yet. Yeah, I sense it. But for Gen X women, I feel like we are just now realizing, hey, we deserve our own time too. We're more than a wife, we're more than a mother, and we're more than whatever position we hold at whatever job we're working. So do you think that perspective is unique to Gen X? But you think the boomers were like that, where they had that epiphany that, okay, the kids are out, it's time to... I'm in an openness. They probably, they define the concept of openness, right? The boomers go out. No, no, they were emptiness. They're like, get out, don't come back. Openness. That's what I mean. They define the concept of emptiness. Right. And the sign generation. You're done. That's now morphed into, we're entering that phase as a generation of Gen X. Right. So it's almost that those two generations, I wonder if the next one will be more like that or not. Millennials. Yeah, it feels like what you're saying. Maybe not. I don't know. I don't think, no, I don't think boomers. I think boomers... They're still too young to be in that phase too, but... Millennials for sure. I think boomers just kind of were like, yeah, our kids are get out. Now we're going to go do what we want to do. We're done. Like they did that traditional retired

Millennials for sure. I think boomers just kind of were like, yeah, our kids are get out. Now we're going to go do what we want to do. We're done. Like they did that traditional retired life, you know, typically together if they're so married. I'm not saying there isn't boomer women out there that are living the life and going on girls' trips and stuff. I've seen it. There is. There's for sure. Sure. And they're loving it. They're loving not being with her, being married anymore. And I think Gen X is following suit in that a lot of women are like, you know what? I did my time and I'm going to honor myself now. I took care of everybody. And but that... You think it's the women, so sort of the women driving this more so than the men or I'm oblivious in some ways to the concept here. I think maybe. Yeah, it could be. It could be because even women, I'm married, right? I think it has to do with if they're, if the women are divorcing, that's obviously they stayed married for the children. Right. You and I have the unique experience of we were good friends for three years before we got married. That friendship is what has been the foundation of our marriage. We've been married 30 years this year. That friendship is what has gotten us through the good and the bad. And obviously we love each other very much, but it can't survive on just that love alone. There has to be that friendship. So and we've always done. We've gone to see live music together. We've done things together. We hike together. So I think you have to maintain some sort of friendship through your marriage or else once the kids are gone, you're going to look at each other and not even know who the hell you each you're going to be like, who are you?

of friendship through your marriage or else once the kids are gone, you're going to look at each other and not even know who the hell you each you're going to be like, who are you? And I'm tired of being with you. There's nothing there. So I think these women drop the weight and we're like the extra baggage and we're like, I'm done cooking for you, taking care of it. Because I think there's definitely a significant amount of men that don't appreciate the women that are in their lives. You know, I do. So these women are like, you know what, I'm going to I'm going to go do the things I always wanted to do. And I guess for me personally, I'm married. I'm happily married and I still have my youngest here, but he'll be gone soon. But I have time to kind of look around and say, OK, I can actually. What do I want? Like, what do I like? And when you've raised children for so long and held down a home and and worked and done all things, sometimes you forget what you like and what you like to do. It's hard. It's it's not that you vicariously live through your kids, but you give over so much to raising them that you kind of lose part of yourself. So it's almost like getting to know yourself again and what you like and what you want to do and taking chances. I think it's so important to keep taking chances. So with with all this being said, what's your big move? Do you have one? Well, I think you're you're listening to it right now. You know, the podcast, you know, is is one thing. This podcast is is a leap and it's exciting and it's different. It's something we can do together in this next half of our life. And so I'm really enjoying it. I think you are as well. I've significantly changed my lifestyle in the last two years, my health lifestyle.

next half of our life. And so I'm really enjoying it. I think you are as well. I've significantly changed my lifestyle in the last two years, my health lifestyle. You know, I think that's something to do a podcast on are the things that we've done over the last two years to significantly change our lifestyle because we plan on being around God willing for our grandchildren and truly growing old together. So I've changed my lifestyle and then I want to start vlogging, you know, and getting into that, you know, and I know it sounds kind of cliche because like everyone's doing this stuff, right? But for at least speaking for myself, I've never done these things before. This is as a Gen X or this is new technology to me. I'm not a technical person at all. The exact opposite of you. So even like learning technical things like that's brand new to my mind. So that's something. Yeah, it's interesting because I've always been technical. I'm actually I go to more of the analog side of things, you know, yeah, meaning developing film as opposed to being in Photoshop messing around when I'm doing photography, right? Developing black and white film. It's kind of fun, right? Hydroponic gardening or even just just gardening and landscaping, getting your your hands dirty. Yeah. I think. Yeah. Well, because your job is technical. So to balance out, yeah, your mind is also never not going. Yeah. So you need a bunch of hobbies to satisfy your highly curious person. Yeah. So you need that. You personally need that. Those are your outlets. Yeah. Whereas I'm the opposite. Like I want to just relax and do nothing because I because for 30 years I've been going, going, going, going. Yeah. And then when I could get a chance to not do anything, I didn't

Like I want to just relax and do nothing because I because for 30 years I've been going, going, going, going. Yeah. And then when I could get a chance to not do anything, I didn't want to do anything. And now I guess I feel like I actually have the energy to start to do some things. Yeah. But yeah, for you like, like, okay, so you have all these hobbies. Not now that we're not involved as much with the kids now, La Crosse season's about to start. So that's going to change our world's about to get spun upside down. But then it'll slow down again. What are some things that you're finding or planning on doing more of? Or are there any is there anything that you've made some more space for? In the second part of our life? I would say this. I I'm enjoying this. I'm just going to be fun. Yeah. You know, hopefully there's an entertainment or at least an intrigue value in it. I like the idea of the vlogging as well, because it's it's interesting to kind of capture the things you've done. And I've never kept a journal. So I don't, you know, I don't have a recorded history of my life. I have taken a ton of pictures. And so I look at pictures over time and that tells my story. Excuse me. I think I'm kind of down for some getting into more live music. You know, we actually just bought tickets to see Billy Strings in Pennsylvania. Yeah. So I mean, that's going to be kind of fun. Yeah. But expect it to be right. So, you know, that and and, you know, I as a serial hobbyist, right, I go in and out, right. I get into photography pretty big. And then I'll shift to my into gardening. And I, you know, so those two things. And we own a 1976 Volkswagen bus. And I think that's on your list of wanting to start working on that again.

And then I'll shift to my into gardening. And I, you know, so those two things. And we own a 1976 Volkswagen bus. And I think that's on your list of wanting to start working on that again. Because if you own a Volkswagen bus, you're never not working on it. But you've taken a significant break from that. Yeah, I have. It's been a couple of years. It's been quite a while. Yeah. So and that'd be fun to drive that around again. Yeah, totally. You know, no, I think it's I think it's an important part of, okay, so speaking, we've been married for 30 years and we did all these things. In the timeline, it was supposed to be done, I guess. Now we're in the second part of our life. And it's like, okay, so we get to kind of figure out how our relationship continues in the second part of our life. It's still centered around our children and hopefully someday grandchildren. But we get to kind of come full circle and do things like you're saying we're going to go up to Pennsylvania to see Billy Strings just the two of us. That's unusual. Usually we have the kids with us when we do any traveling. So we're coming full circle to do things together again. And I think that's important as you get to that phase where your kids are leaving that you kind of get that relationship of just the two of you maintain that again and do new and exciting things. You know, and and I think as you get older, trying new things also forces your brain to continue to think and grow. That that helps with Alzheimer's dimension, all of that. Yeah, yeah, definitely. To not get in a rut where you're just, okay, now the kids are gone. We're going to just sit and watch TV and not do anything. I think it's important to stay active so that your everything in your brain keeps going and

okay, now the kids are gone. We're going to just sit and watch TV and not do anything. I think it's important to stay active so that your everything in your brain keeps going and stay strong. It's like exercising that too. Well, it's funny you say that when I was in college, I worked for a retired couple who from Southern California to Southern Oregon and helped them build out their their property, right? We were putting in we built a barn built pigeon to, you know, things like that. And I used to think and he the guy I worked for retired early. I think he retired either 50 or 55 years old. And I used to think he would get up every day at like 5 30 or so and start and he was worth millions of dollars. And I used to think, you know, why, why doesn't he why isn't he just chilling? Yeah, you know, as you get older, it's like, you just don't chill. Your mind never stops. And it kept him going. It kept him young and in shape. I think now more than ever at our age, it's so important to keep moving, keep going, because it's what it's what helps you continue to go and to live and stay and stay up with everything. Even even professionally speaking, too, though, it's not a hobby, but it's there's a balancing act. But the technology today that I work within, right, it's, you know, this all this stuff was going on in the cloud with with with Microsoft Azure and Amazon's AWS and Google's cloud and AI. It's all really interesting stuff. Yeah. And so that that too is very thought provoking. And I guess my hobby in some ways there is I'm I own at least 10 different raspberry pies. Yeah, yes. You know, so I've had a lot of fun with those. But, you know, it's bringing what's going on in the world at a larger technological level and playing with it at home.

Yeah, yes. You know, so I've had a lot of fun with those. But, you know, it's bringing what's going on in the world at a larger technological level and playing with it at home. IOT, right, IOT is the Internet of Things and things like a remote controllable doorknob. I, you know, I think that stuff's cool. Right. The video cameras in the house and not in the house, but outside the property, being able to automate the sprinkler system or things like that. You know, I think that's kind of fun stuff. Yeah, no. So I think for you professionally and thankfully with technology always changing, it has continued to challenge you. Yeah. So it's interesting because you can completely reinvent yourself at our age. I would say you have to. Yeah, we talk we did this once before, but professional advice. Yeah. Continue to reinvent yourself, especially as you get older and there's kids coming up behind you that are, quite frankly, smarter. At least they're more in tune with things like AI and the cloud services and stuff like that. They grew up on phones. You have to continue to reinvent yourself and learn stuff and find fun in the new stuff. Yeah, I think it's imperative. The founder of Girl Scouts started Girl Scouts, I think, at the age of 52 or something. I think Sam Walton didn't open Walmart until he was maybe in his 50s. Yeah, which is crazy. It is. There's this idea that if you haven't, you know, I feel like especially for kids, there's this pressure on them to you need to know what you want to do before you go to college. And then while you're in college, you need to focus on that major and graduate with that. And then you go into that line of work and that's what you do. And I think it's so important that to

And then while you're in college, you need to focus on that major and graduate with that. And then you go into that line of work and that's what you do. And I think it's so important that to understand that it's a fluid thing. You're always growing up. Yeah, we're we're in our 50s. Well, the best is yet to come. And the best is always yet to come. We're in our 50s. And I still feel like we are still growing up. I know that younger people look at us that like people our age. And then we have it figured out and we have the answers. We do not. We are literally figuring it out as we go along. Most people older than you are figuring it out as they're going along. And so it never changes. So never, never feel pressure to be like, okay, I'm going to be this. I'm going to be this for the rest of my life. Because everything ebbs and flows and you have to be open to that change that growth. And other things may interest you and you should always go for it. As much as you can, obviously, if you're the breadwinner, you need to work your job. If you're the one that brings in health insurance, you need to work your job. If you're working three jobs, you have to keep working those. But if you can, make some space for other hopes and dreams in there. It's not like you get to this finish sign when your kids are raised and you get a medal. And you did it. Like life is still continuing. Well, what's the, I think it's the John Lennon quote, life is happening while you're busy making other plans. Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. And it's so true. And so you get to that. And I think a lot of people, I'm talking about people who have children. A lot of people raise their kids and then

busy making other plans. And it's so true. And so you get to that. And I think a lot of people, I'm talking about people who have children. A lot of people raise their kids and then are kind of like, well, now what do I do? Especially women. But what this was my life now, what do I do now? And it's this emptiness. And so I think it's understanding to whatever you want to do, like, it's your time. And challenge yourself and reinvent yourself. And I wonder sometimes this whole idea of mapping out our lives up until really age 50 or whatever is because life expectancy was so different, even a hundred years ago. You know, I mean, we're living now so much longer. No, it's a wild concept, right? Because it's not far fetched for us to think we'll make it to say 85. Another 30, 35 years. Yeah. And that seems far more reasonable now than I don't know if you even think about it, say 10 years ago. But yeah, I mean, no, I, well, 50 used to seem old, but now 50 feels like 40. Totally. I can't even tell the younger people how much 50 does not feel old. It just does not at all before you know it, you'll be 50. Yeah. You're like, wow, we're those people. Yeah, totally. You know, but I think life expectancy has changed. And so there is truly a second act. Yeah. God willing, right? Not for everybody. I mean, my God, look what happened with your dad and my dad, right? They died way earlier than they should have. So life does happen in those situations. And that's why you should live every day to the fullest if you can. But in general, there is this whole other part of life that happens. And I don't, I just think it's fascinating to kind of wake up one day and look around and think, oh, okay, so I can really take a breath

part of life that happens. And I don't, I just think it's fascinating to kind of wake up one day and look around and think, oh, okay, so I can really take a breath and look and think, what do I want to do? What do I want to do with this time? And I think it's important to give back to as much as you can. Oh, I was just about to say that I was waiting for you to pause, but that's a big thing, right? You reach a point where you have some wisdom you can impart on others just through your experience. And so those opportunities are out there, mentorships. Really, mentorships are volunteering, right? A lot of volunteering happens. You see a lot of older folks in various charities organizing things that are good. Yeah. That is a huge thing. It is when you give back. And I do find interestingly with friendships, the older I've gotten, the more, the more quality friendships matter to me versus quantity. And the less time and patience I have for inauthenticity in a friendship is I have so much time set aside for these friendships, my, especially my women friends, I cherish them. I cherish them. They are so important to me and vital, but my patience and time for what I will put up with every year I get older, it diminishes what I'll put up with. It's really changed. That has changed a lot. Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. And that's the ruffles feathers too. Yeah. That causes some drama and it is, you know, you have that takes some courage to be able to say, this doesn't serve me anymore, or this is toxic to me. And I don't have to put up with it anymore. I can end this. I can stop this person from having access to my life. It's okay. I do think that's part of more of the unscripted aspect of things, right? It's off script to not put up with

I can end this. I can stop this person from having access to my life. It's okay. I do think that's part of more of the unscripted aspect of things, right? It's off script to not put up with bullshit to a point depends on what your early script was. I think our kids are probably scripted to not put up, not have the same tolerance probably as we did. But the world's changed in that sense. That's I yeah, like I say, I think that's part of that unscripted aspect. Well, I think that when you get to a point in your life that you will not put up with certain things from people, you know, people don't like that. And it can offend some people. It can cause some people to talk behind your back, all that stupid high school stuff. But I think it's important to do it because you almost don't realize how toxic the situation was. Until you have removed yourself from it, or you remove that person from your life. And to your point, we raised our kids to have that skill as much as they can. I wasn't raised like that. But as you're raising children, you also have a pretty wide group of friends. And then as, as they get older, you're able to kind of narrow it down to the quality friendships that you gain there. You don't have to be everybody's friend. Yeah. And that, and some people are offended by that or find it rude, but it's healthy. At least I can speak for myself. It's healthier to, it's okay to say no. It's okay to say this doesn't serve me in my life. It was there for a season, but now it's okay to let it go. Letting people go is so healthy and so okay. I think, I think it's Alex or Gozi. I haven't watched his podcast in a little while, but he was, he's talked about that. How he's had friends over the years and he's more about probably business, right?

I haven't watched his podcast in a little while, but he was, he's talked about that. How he's had friends over the years and he's more about probably business, right? And he's one of those guys who's more about how to succeed, how to make money. Very interesting. I've checked him out. Maybe we'll put a link in or something on the bottom of like the podcast or on YouTube or something. He talks about that. He's like, you only have so much time in your life and he focuses on his quality relationships and then we'll allocate, allocate in this sort of that mechanical sense of it, but make sure to spend an hour a month or an hour every two months or an hour, a quarter, whatever it is with those primary context, the people he gets the most out of the rest. They're done. They're gone. And it's not a callous thing. It's just a matter of, look, there's only so much time in our lives that you want to derive value out of the relationships you have. Yes. And I think that as the more time you put towards your quote unquote hobbies or the space you've set aside for yourself, that in addition to the time you give to your family, to your work, there it's right. You're right. Only 24 hours in a day. There's only so much time. And I feel like through the last 30 years raising kids, I've, I've made lots of acquaintances, friends, been running around crazy because the kids do all these different things, but it gets to the point where you're like, okay, there has to be some balance here. And it's healthy to say, this is who I'm going to give my quality time to. Yeah. And it, and just because I'm not maybe your friend anymore, maybe we're just acquaintances or we don't even talk anymore. Doesn't mean I wish you ill will.

Yeah. And it, and just because I'm not maybe your friend anymore, maybe we're just acquaintances or we don't even talk anymore. Doesn't mean I wish you ill will. It just means we were in each other's lives for that time, but it's okay to move on. It's okay to move on. It's okay to let people go, especially if those people are toxic or abusive, you have to let them go. You have to let them go. If you're going to grow at all, you have to make space for what is for you. And if you don't cut out what isn't for you, what is for you will never come. You have to create that space. Yeah. But I don't even think it's as callous as how that could sound, right? It just happens. There's only 24 hours in a day and it's filled mostly with commitments that are non-negotiable. You need to sleep. So there goes, let's say, you know, six to eight hours. Hopefully. If you're lucky. Yeah. You might, if you're working, that's at least, you know, eight to 10 hours. Um, so there goes most of your day. If you have kids, there's some stuff going on there, whether it's homework or activities or whatever. So there's not a, you got to eat. Yeah. You know, so before you know it, your, your day is pretty well consumed. Yeah. But you know, what's interesting is women will always make time to meet up with other women or talk with other women. We'll find time for that. So yes, all those things. But still that time you spend with other women is a finite resource. It is. So you have to choose carefully. Yes. I, I, yeah. Speaking as a woman, so vital, especially at this point in my life, like I said, I'm only spending time with, with women who are going to, who are kind of in the same. Fill your cup. Fill my cup. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Cause you also, I think when she reached

life, like I said, I'm only spending time with, with women who are going to, who are kind of in the same. Fill your cup. Fill my cup. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Cause you also, I think when she reached our, reach our age, you kind of face your mortality more and time, how much time you have left, just by redundant, is really in your staring you in the face. And so you don't really want to give up any more precious time to anyone undeserving. Totally agree. You know, hell yeah. Like I've never thought of my mortality until maybe even just recently. Yeah. Honestly, it's weird. It's like you, something goes on. There's a light and it's like, well, shit, I don't really have that much time. Yeah. So I don't want to sleep really, right? I don't want to sleep in till, you know, past eight. Right. That's like sleeping in. Right. Um, I don't want to necessarily go to bed and it's not this fear, right? It's just the, and it's, it's not a FOMO. It's, it's just a weird thing. It's like, okay, I'm in this second, third phase of my life. It's not as, you know, what do I want to do? I want to maximize this. Yeah. You want to use every minute of it. Yeah. Of quality time. You want it. So you know that there's only so much time left. So you want to honor, honor it. You want to honor all the time you have left. Yeah. And I've never felt that way before. Me neither. So like you said, I, it was right after I turned 50. And that's when we made the big lifestyle changes. You know, I, at least I did. But when I turned 50 is when I, I made the decision to, it was a big health kit, health decision for us. We made a lot of health decisions because we realized you can't keep doing some of the things you're doing when you're in your thirties and

health decision for us. We made a lot of health decisions because we realized you can't keep doing some of the things you're doing when you're in your thirties and twenties, thirties and forties. Expect to live to 85, 90, 95. It's just not going to happen. Yeah. And it was really looking at ourselves in the mirror and saying, okay, do you want to be an active grandparent? Do you want to be together at 85? You know, so it's not only that, but like, I don't want to be confined to a wheelchair. Yeah. I don't want to be confined to taking meds every day that makes that regulate my body. I want to be able to move around. Want to be able to do stuff. You want to be active. You want to be active. Yeah. You need to be, honestly, health is the only thing you have. It is the end of the day. It's your health. Yes. So you've, you know, And as you're young, you can do more wear and tear on your body and still bounce back. But I'm sure people in their forties are getting a clue as to what we're talking about, especially women. They start hitting perimenopause in their forties and that's a whole ravaging thing. So it's just, it's a lot that starts happening. But I just think for the second half, I mean, it's just, that is the theme. It's honoring the time. Honoring the time. One of my younger coworkers went to the doctor because his foot hurt. And I'm like, well, I started asking questions, but you know, what are the symptoms? Well, you know, it just hurts in the morning or something. I was like, dude, welcome to getting old. That's like, that's what I call Monday. Yes. Not just the foot, it's the elbow or the back or whatever. Oh, yeah. Just by moving around, it'll cure itself. I think that's the main thing is to stay active, stay moving, use

Yes. Not just the foot, it's the elbow or the back or whatever. Oh, yeah. Just by moving around, it'll cure itself. I think that's the main thing is to stay active, stay moving, use your mind, use your brain, and take risks, take challenges. Um, don't be scared. Don't be fearful because this is it. Yeah. Well, this is even this alone, right? We're doing this podcast. People know us. You put yourself out there. Yeah. Touch on some topics that will open us up for some hate. Yeah. Some people may agree. Others will not agree. Yeah. Some people will be nice. Some people will be completely horrendous. Yeah. And, you know, you just open yourself up. But it's in that sense, it's kind of fun. It's new. It's different. I've always been camera shy. Yeah. I don't like to be in the spotlight. I'm just not about that. You're not about that at all. You don't even like to leave the house really. I would not that bad. But yeah, well, need a two week notice before we go to dinner or something. But I just saw a quote from Jerry Seinfeld. He said, no matter it was, I'm not quoting literally, but, or verbatim, but he said, what you're doing, just focus on that and work your hardest on that. Don't worry about what anyone else is doing, what anyone's saying, anyone else's opinions. He's like, just pick your thing and work on that thing. And that's all that matters and you'll be fine. And just the rest of it, it just doesn't matter. He's like, none of that matters. Has nothing to do with anything. You just work on what you want to do. And it's true. You can't worry about what that's another thing. I don't care what other. I guess this is part of also the second half of my life. I don't care what anyone thinks about me.

And it's true. You can't worry about what that's another thing. I don't care what other. I guess this is part of also the second half of my life. I don't care what anyone thinks about me. I haven't though for a long time. And I think that's part of that's a Gen X thing. But even Gen Xers at times have cared what people think about them. But that part of me that's Gen X is like raging now. Like I really don't care what anyone I'm, I'm a kind, courteous person. I'm a nice person, thoughtful, all that. So I'm not out there being a jerk, but I don't care about people's judgments. I really don't. Now it's an interesting thing because when you come across people who do, it's there's friction. Absolute friction in that, that situation. Yeah. Like what's an example of that? Like hypothetically, doesn't have to be a real one. Yeah. That's the thing. I don't want to offend anyone. Yeah. It's just a tough one. I can't, I can't even think of one because it's, it would be more personal. I'm just thinking more like in the, in, in our small world around what people's interests are versus our interests, the weight they put into those interests, the pressure they put on their kids and what they think is important. At the end of the day, it's, it's not, you know, there, everything that your kids are going through now when they're 12, 13, 14, they're formative. It definitely has an impact. But I can guarantee you it's not the, it's not the most important thing in the world. Right. Feel like it. And, you know, um, but it's just not. And it's important to honor it for those kids. Cause to them, it feels like everything, whatever they're going through. But I guess that's probably, maybe that's a good example would be just that we're not

honor it for those kids. Cause to them, it feels like everything, whatever they're going through. But I guess that's probably, maybe that's a good example would be just that we're not living vicariously through our kids. We're living with them. And then we take an interest in what they're doing. We enjoy the music they like. We go to music with them. And, but, and they're a reflection of us, but we're not living through them. So sports would be one thing, right? It's not like, you know, we're not looking for our kids to become professional athletes and never have. So there's the difference because there are parents like that. Right. And yeah, and, and, or singing or whatever it might be. Right. And, and we're not saying that if you're wanting your kid to be a professional athlete or singer or actor, whatever, you're not vicariously living through them. We're not saying that you are vicariously living through your kids. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just for us, that's not our thing. But I think, you know, it's, I think if you're going to chase those dreams, you can't care what others think. But I think in so many ways you have to, it's just like this weird thing. What do you mean? Like for people to chase those dreams of wanting to be a professional athlete or wanting to be famous in anything, you have to care what others think because they're judging you on your skills and performance. And then you have to not care what they think in order to chase that dream or else your insecurities would paralyze you and you would never chase the dream. It's an interesting war. In that sense, I think you're getting into bouncing back from failure or having short term memory. Yes. I was thinking more of the parents who think that they're on the field.

It's an interesting war. In that sense, I think you're getting into bouncing back from failure or having short term memory. Yes. I was thinking more of the parents who think that they're on the field. More so than the athlete or singer chasing it. Professional athletes and singers are totally from a different mold. Yes. You know, I was looking at the Caitlin Clark recently in her workout. It's insane. Yeah. It's why she's so good. Yeah. It's amazing the dedication she puts into it, the reps of taking a jump shot. It's amazing. Kobe, right? I don't know if you know this. I'm sure you do. You've heard us talk about it. But Kobe gets the games when he was still playing, right? Gets the games before everybody. And when the game's over, win or lose, he's there for like another hour or two. Guy's an animal. Yeah. And you know, that's cool. It takes a certain mindset. Yeah. It does. No. Yeah. If you're, yes. And so if you're talking about parents who are in the thick of it, like in elementary school, middle school, even high school and kind of vicariously living through their kids. Yeah. Yeah. That's not it. That's not it. Like that's all going to end and your kids go to college or they get a job. And then, you know, you have to keep living your life. Yeah. You know, so it's, but it's so easy to fall into the trap of all that. There's so much FOMO and everything. But I do think that's part of, you know, you were saying it's the best part of your scripted piece from, you know, high school or elementary school and having kids. To me, that part becomes unscripted because sure, on a, at a kind of at the macro level or the theme level, yeah, you're parenting, you've got kids, you're doing all this stuff, but you have to maintain some sense of

because sure, on a, at a kind of at the macro level or the theme level, yeah, you're parenting, you've got kids, you're doing all this stuff, but you have to maintain some sense of self-identity through all that. Yes. Right. And that's, that's a big piece, but in order to maintain your own self-identity, you have to be able to, you don't just follow along with the herd. Yes. But that's challenging. And that's where you're talking about causing friction. That causes friction. Yes. Yes. For sure. There's times we haven't followed along with the herd. I'd say most of our life would spend, it's not been a frictionless existence in that sense. No, because we, when something is no longer serving us, we, we move on from it. Yeah. We do. And, or if it's not serving our children, we don't, we have no problem with that. The other piece too, though, I think we talked about this in one of our episodes. You might know when I mentioned the topic, but we were younger parents, so we were automatically had some friction because we didn't, weren't five, 10 years younger than the people we were hanging out with. And now we become somewhat of the older parents. And so there's slight friction there. It's an interesting concept and friction is not conflict. It's just in incongruence of ideas or actions. Yeah. And there you go. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But I think it's, I do think it's hard to walk away from certain things and to be the only one maybe that walks away from something or makes a different decision than others. You know, that, oh, a hundred percent, you know, that that's not easy, but it definitely is more rewarding. And like I said, it's made space for what was supposed to come, come into our lives. You have to make that space.

you know, that that's not easy, but it definitely is more rewarding. And like I said, it's made space for what was supposed to come, come into our lives. You have to make that space. If you hold onto the staleness, the new stuff will not come. You're not on your authentic journey. If you're holding on to something, be just because of the fear of letting it go, whether it's an experience, whether it's a job, whether it's a hobby, whether it's friends, whether it's a relationship. And I think getting into our fifties and into this phase of our life, at least for me, it's been easier to make that space and let the staleness go. Yeah. I'm not worried about it anymore at all. I wasn't too worried to begin with, but now I don't, I'm not worried at all about it. You know, another thing on the career front, I remember, you know, we talked about this, I think in episode two or three, some of the career moves I had made, right? That was episode one, I think. I don't know. Whatever. I remember being at a job and leaving and people were like, what are you leaving here? Well, it's like, we're not making any money guys. Right. And then go into this next gig and then leaving again. And it's like, well, why are you doing it? We're making okay money, but you know, I've got a family. I'm not here to no offense, but we'll be friends. We can be friends, but not here. And so a lot of people get comfortable and they're not willing to change. And that's part of their script, right? In some ways what you're talking about or this, this topic in many ways is they, they get on their path, they're on script and the thought of being off the script is very intimidating and very fear inducing. Yeah. I feel like we've never been on a script. I feel like we've always

get on their path, they're on script and the thought of being off the script is very intimidating and very fear inducing. Yeah. I feel like we've never been on a script. I feel like we've always been off script in that sense. Well, it's interesting because I feel we have been on a script because we both went to the same schooling all the way through. Then we got married. Then we had kids. We raised our kids. So for you though, to be, where was I going to go with this? Your background you've talked about is how chaotic it was, right? My childhood. Your childhood is way more chaotic than mine. Yes. So it's, this is interesting actually because yours was so chaotic and you kind of got on a script of parenting and wifeing and raising kids. Yes. Whereas I was on a script. Mine was tight. I was, you know, there are a lot of order in my life as a young guy to becoming more the breadwinner. That's completely off script. So now the answers are never right there. It's like, here's what's next. Here's what's next. It's like, what's next? Right. So we flip flops. We did flip flop. Yeah. Yeah. Because even though I was following a loose script, because I went to elementary school, middle school, high school, college, that is part of the script, right? It was a very loose, chaotic script because my life, my childhood was just crazy. Yeah. So then once I got into being married and motherhood, that became a very welcoming script for me. I liked having the script. I liked the predictability. I liked that every day was kind of, even though it was crazy raising kids and all that, there was like consistency to it. And I loved all of that. So where you had that consistency growing up, and then now you're the breadwinner and not knowing what

raising kids and all that, there was like consistency to it. And I loved all of that. So where you had that consistency growing up, and then now you're the breadwinner and not knowing what is going to come next. You're right. We flip flop completely. Another thing you were talking about change and how people in their scripts are fearful of change. They like their script to be a certain way and they don't deviate off the script at all. They kind of follow that script. And then when they get to that quote unquote, end of the marathon, when their kids are raised and they're kind of looking at each other, that may be why some, a lot of marriages do end at that point because there is no, the road ended for them because they were following a script so tightly and now there's no script and they have no tools on how to move forward. You know, whereas you're saying like we would continue to challenge ourselves or walk away from toxic situations or not be part of the herd, even through those years where we were on a technical script, we kept exercising those skills of walking away and leaving things that were no longer serving us and embracing change, even though it was scary at times, not being fearful. So we were constantly still changing within our script. So then once we got to the, are getting to the point now where that part of our life is ending, it doesn't scare us because we've been kind of taking those leaps and bounds a little bit here, a little bit there during the time of raising our kids. But if, but if you stick, if you hold onto your security blankets through living this first half of your life script and you don't take those chances, then when you get to that end of when you're raising your kids and you're kind of looking at each

blankets through living this first half of your life script and you don't take those chances, then when you get to that end of when you're raising your kids and you're kind of looking at each other, that could be really scary because what do you do now? It's almost like, what do we do now? Yeah. And that could be very overwhelming. Yeah. Especially if you haven't maintained a friendship. I can't imagine settling down per se. And maybe that's not an apparent thing. We probably look like we have settled down. I don't plan on this being our last house. I think you might. I know I probably don't. I love this house. Yeah. And I love being here, but at some point it's just not going to work just because it's crazier. It's awesome. It's awesome. We're in South Florida. Everybody knows that by now. But to your point, if you keep changing, if you stay dynamic, I think, and keep changing the script in sense or keep writing the script, right? You know, for me, I grew up on the East coast, went to the West coast. We moved to the Midwest back to the West coast, back to the East coast. And then now we're in Southeast. That's different. It's just different. And you too, though, you grew up on the West coast when, you know, when Midwest West East, you know, so it's just different. No, I think we've always kind of, we've tweaked things. We keep tweaking things, you know, even as we, like you said, we've traveled, we've moved. Well, we've moved. I wouldn't say we're huge. We drove around the country for two and a half months after college, but we're not like world travelers or anything. And we've traveled for lacrosse, but we've moved a lot. But even so in other situations, whether it's interpersonal relationships, friendships, we've tweaked them.

travelers or anything. And we've traveled for lacrosse, but we've moved a lot. But even so in other situations, whether it's interpersonal relationships, friendships, we've tweaked them. We keep tweaking and changing things. I think it's great to those like, we've met some really cool people. Oh yeah. It's wild because I think we both know people from our high school hometowns that are still there. Yeah. We also know people who are out and about and not there. Right. And then by moving, we've met people that, you know, especially in South Florida, no one that we know really, there's only a few natives, right? Most people are from other parts of the country or world. So you meet a lot of really cool, dynamic, interesting people. Even up in New Jersey, you know, we we've known that is one thing when you have kids and you're raising them by default, you get to know other parents and you really get to know some awesome people, kind people, you know, every most people want the same thing. We just want the best for our kids. That really is it. You will meet some toxic people through it. And even their intentions are they want the best for their kids. Just the way they're going about it isn't doesn't jive with me. But so we all want that, right? But there are some really awesome people out there. I cherish the people we've met along our journey, you know, and I would welcome running into a lot of them in the future. I would hope I would. And I think that's that's such a gift from having kids as you get to know all these parents. And in there, I mean, in there, I will say I have some of my best friends and I cherish them. So but I think it's important as you're going in that journey to not get too settled in to what you're doing and

say I have some of my best friends and I cherish them. So but I think it's important as you're going in that journey to not get too settled in to what you're doing and to not be afraid of change. Don't be afraid of change and to take risks for your family and to always have your kids back. It's hard to have your kids back sometimes. A lot of people don't don't like confrontation and a lot of people don't want to be the bad guy. Yeah. But no one is going to have your kids back except you. Yeah. So if it means you might lose a friend or two, you still need to have your kids back. That is your job as a parent. Yeah. 100 percent. I stand by that. Yeah. You know, it's very important. You know, it's an interesting one because we've, you know, count the number of conflicts I've had in my adult life and probably one hand. They've probably all been related to something in that front with your kids, defending your kids, standing up for your kids. Yeah. You don't have to always make it right for other people's kids. If it's at the cost of your own kid. Yeah. And that's a, you know, that's honestly some serious advice for younger parents, I guess. Yeah. I think it's a great call. You have to protect your kids. And it can make you don't who will. Exactly. It can, it can make things uncomfortable, but in the, you will see looking back, it was all for the right reasons and things are better from it. Things are always better from it. It's just in the moment, it can feel super uncomfortable and scary. But as a result of us continuing to change and take on new things when we could here and there, I think by the time we got to this phase in our life, we were kind of ready to say, okay, and look what we did. I mean, like we're trying all these new

could here and there, I think by the time we got to this phase in our life, we were kind of ready to say, okay, and look what we did. I mean, like we're trying all these new things and we really didn't hesitate too long. In fact, I'm like always thinking of what's something else we can do. Yeah. You know, it's, I find it, I'm hoping and I'm confident that this next half of our life is going to be exciting and fun. And I'm excited. Like I'm really excited about it, no matter what we do. Yeah. I think life's always an adventure. So you have to treat it that way. Yeah. But I, I personally, I guess as a mom, finally have some time to breathe and look around and say, okay, yeah, I can't, I can do that. I can go. It needs to be mowed and there's some weeds in the flower beds. Yeah. But no, I can say, oh yeah, I can go on that hike on Sunday. And I know there's moms that have been doing that as they raise kids and God bless them. I just, I wasn't one of those. I was always busy with my kids and I will say I did not carve out probably as much time as I should have as a mom. So that's some advice I'd give if you can. But now that I can, I'm taking full advantage of it whenever I can. I'm claiming some of my own space. I think we did good when we were on script, but I'm excited to be off script now in this next phase of our life and kind of just write our own screenplay in a way that's unique. Yeah. You're talking like we're retired. I know. I got to go to work Monday. I know. I know. Well, that's, that's a whole nother, whole nother part of our life. So, so yeah. Those are our thoughts about the first half and the second half of what we had going on in our lives in the past and what we're looking forward to. Yeah. All right.

So, so yeah. Those are our thoughts about the first half and the second half of what we had going on in our lives in the past and what we're looking forward to. Yeah. All right. If anyone can relate, share comments or questions or we'd love to hear from you. I would love to hear others point of view on this. Yeah. In the, in the context of, did you follow a script? Are you coming out of that script? Have you always been kind of a little over all over the place and then just having it evolve? I think there's an element for everybody to both. Yeah. They'd be curious, you know, get some perspective on that. And people who choose not to have children, they have a totally different script. People who are single their whole life have a totally different script. Yeah. I'd love to hear those scripts because I only know our script or, and others who are like us, you know, and there's single moms and single dads who have a, completely different script. So, you know, I would love to hear about, about what people have gone through in their own journey. So, yep. Cool. Okay. We'll see you next time. All right. We're out. Take care. Bye.