Episode 8 - Marriage

[Music] Welcome to Gen X Adulting. Today is the marriage episode. We just celebrated our 30th wedding anniversary. And so we are going to share our thoughts, opinions and experiences from being married for 30 years. It's quite an accomplishment. I feel accomplished in that because I mean, I'm assuming you do as well. Yeah, it's amazing to think we've been together 30 years and where did the time go? It goes very quickly. Yeah, it goes really fast. I mean, officially we've been together 32 years, so but married 30. So we got married young pretty much. I mean, 23. I know some people get married in their late teens, maybe 2021. But for our world, 23, right out of college, a year out of college, it was, we were the first out of all of our friends. Yep. We, after we graduated college, we drove around the country for two and a half months and then we lived together. We moved in together and sinners. Yeah. In the scheme of things, we were definitely still kids. Right. Yes. Very young kids in many ways. Yes. Yeah. So and then we got married a year later at 23. And I think there's pros and cons to getting married young. I think the pros, in my opinion, is you get more time together. Like you just said, it goes by so fast. So I'm happy we were able to start so early because it did go by so quickly. And you kind of grow up together. Yeah, definitely. And there can be cons to that. Yeah. Because there's growing pains. You know, I don't think the frontal lobe is closed until age 26. So we got married even before. That's like a scientific fact too, right? I think it is. Yeah. So, you know, we, you know what, I think the pro of that in some ways is I think if you wait too long, then it gives you too much time to analyze and create more

right? I think it is. Yeah. So, you know, we, you know what, I think the pro of that in some ways is I think if you wait too long, then it gives you too much time to analyze and create more apprehension and fear of what ifs. Where if you're kind of ignorant to the risks and to the turmoil that might be ahead of you, you just go into it blindly. And with all this optimism and hope, there is some benefit to that. Because I think if you know too much, it can kind of slow, not slow you down, but make you hesitate more because you're more nervous because you're more aware. It's kind of like when you become a parent. Well, it's an interesting concept. So you're saying the hindsight is 20, 20 might talk you out of doing it. I think it would slow you down. I think you would be more nervous or more scared to do it because of the what ifs. Like how do I know that I'm going to want to be with this person in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years? And how do I know that we're going to be able to work everything out? And how do I know that we're going to be good parents together? We're going to be able to do this whole life together. And the world is, you know, everyone thinks the world is so crazy when you're young. The world was crazy for us in the 80s and in the 90s. The world is crazy now. But so the one piece of advice I would say, do not let what's going on in the world stop you from having the hope and optimism of getting married and having children. Do not let what's going on in the world stop you from that because there's always going to be chaos going on. And you really have to insulate and look at your small world and what you want and address that and just go for it. I think the thing you just mentioned about getting married so young and just

And you really have to insulate and look at your small world and what you want and address that and just go for it. I think the thing you just mentioned about getting married so young and just jumping in and not having all the fears that in is you don't realize the commitment it takes to be with someone for as long as we've been together. Yeah, right. So if as you get older, you start to realize that I think you're like you've had some relationships, maybe some couple of years, three years, four years, whatever. And you realize that commitment level and then with that might come some baggage. Yeah, by getting married younger. It's you don't have to say that that baggage that makes sense. Yeah, well, exactly. You bring the bag. If you wait too long, you bring the baggage of your fear of it not working out. Right. So when so we got married young, I was never worried. I don't know about you. I don't think we've ever had this conversation. I was never worried about getting married young or if it was going to work out or not. I mean, I do. OK. So I do believe you know when you've met your person. If you know, you know. And I believe 100 percent, you know, if you've met your person and there's just there's no hesitation. It's like two puzzle pieces fitting together and you go for it. And I don't know if that openness to meeting that person starts to close the older you get because all of these other variables are existing in the world. To influence your open mindedness about finding your person. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, it does. It's almost like as you're a kid, you enter the world just ready to explore. Right. And it's all new and you're pure and you're innocent. The older you get, the more or less innocent you are. Right. Yeah. You're

enter the world just ready to explore. Right. And it's all new and you're pure and you're innocent. The older you get, the more or less innocent you are. Right. Yeah. You're jaded by the things going on around you. Yeah. I don't know if that's kind of where you're going. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think that the the yes, the the older you get, the more jaded you get that that you just sum that up. Yeah. So the more jaded you are, the harder it can be to be willing to be vulnerable and to open yourself up to others. You're more on guard. The more exposed you are to the world, the more guarded you are to people in general. Yeah. So I think it becomes more challenging to meet your person. Yeah. Where when you're younger, you're kind of ignorant. Yeah. And you have that that stupid love ability about you. Yeah. And so you're just more open to it. And for us, thankfully, it worked out. Yeah. Because I'm sure our parents and our family and even our friends thought we were crazy. We got married in Vegas. It was a very nice wedding. It wasn't even though I think those chapel weddings are adorable, but it was a traditional wedding in Vegas. It was a blast. I went and we ever we talked to friends, they still say it was the best party of any wedding they've been to. Yeah. So it was a wonderful wedding. But I'm sure everyone thought these two kids are nuts. Yeah. And I mean, I think now as a parent, if one of our kids had graduated from college and a year later was getting married and married in Vegas, I would be very apprehensive because I know too much now. Yeah. And that's where you have to trust the thing too. There's we got married in Vegas to keep to contain the wedding. Right? Yes. Big families. Yes. And we

I know too much now. Yeah. And that's where you have to trust the thing too. There's we got married in Vegas to keep to contain the wedding. Right? Yes. Big families. Yes. And we didn't want this huge wedding. Right. Plus we have families on the East Coast, the Midwest and on the West Coast. Yes. So Vegas is sort of that destination wedding. It was at the time we did a destination wedding before destination weddings were a thing. Yeah, probably. Well, it was a destination. I didn't know it was. That's what we were doing. Yeah. No idea. To your point, we picked it because it would change. Yes. Yes. You and I both did not want to spend the whole night greeting people. That's just how we were at the time. We wanted to just have as intimate wedding as possible. Have as much fun as possible. But I didn't want to be walking table to table all night. That's that's where we were at. Yeah. So that's why we chose that. So instead of 250 people at our wedding, we had 65 people at our wedding and it was lovely. Now. Now I would love to have a big party of 200 people. But at the time, that's not where we were mentally. And so it worked out great. But yeah, it was a destination wedding before it was actually funny. You say that because for us we wanted a small wedding. I think our parents and family were more in line with the big wedding. Fast forward 30 years. If our kids got married, we'd probably want more of the big wedding. Yes. For them and not so much the small. Yes. No. Yes. I yeah. And I think although I don't know what our parents were thinking, I think it was such a world where we were. I don't know what they were thinking. I don't remember my parents ever saying they wanted a big wedding. I don't know if yours did. I think everyone was just

such a world where we were. I don't know what they were thinking. I don't remember my parents ever saying they wanted a big wedding. I don't know if yours did. I think everyone was just kind of like what's happening. What what is going on? Well, did you go to many weddings when you were younger? Yeah, I mean, my family had my Armenian family had a decent amount of weddings that I went to. And then but before we got married. No, I think that was it. I think it was just on my Armenian side. I think that's something that's something that's really interesting. But before we got married, no, I think that was it. I think it was just on my Armenian side. I don't think on my mom's side, I had been to any. Yeah, I'd been to my mom's weddings. That's another story. The Ring girl 20 times. No, no, no. Just two times besides my obviously wasn't at my parents wedding. I mean, for us when I was a kid, when people would get married, you know, I have cousins and relatives getting married. That was a party. Yes. Yes. And it could range from trying to think if any of them were small, they were probably smaller when I was really young. They got progressively just bigger. Well, yeah. So I think you're Irish Catholic. I think that's similar to Armenian as far as partying. So the Armenian weddings are very big. And it is a party. And it goes all night. And it's dancing. And it's lovely the food. You can't top it. And it's wonderful wedding or something. It's similar to Greek wedding. It's absolutely wonderful. It's the best time. But I think to your point, Irish Catholic, big family, everyone's partying. Yeah. And on the east, northeast food is great. So I think we both had those experiences. But again, at that time at 23, we were

big family, everyone's partying. Yeah. And on the east, northeast food is great. So I think we both had those experiences. But again, at that time at 23, we were not down to having that. Again, I would do it now. But even my wedding dress was so simple. But um, so anyways, we went we just, we drove around the country for two and a half months moved in together in October of 93. And then in May of 94, you asked me to marry you. This is a funny story. Maybe I won't share it. Okay, well, it was a camping weekend. It was a camping weekend. Yeah. But we were chilling on the side of a river and you asked me to marry you. So and that was cool. So you asked me in May of 90. I think we were skinny dipping is the salacious part you were going to, right? Yes, we were skinny dipping. So in Oregon, Oregon's a very, you can still be natural in Oregon. Yes, we were skinny. Okay. So we were skinny dipping. In a river near silver, silver falls in Oregon. And I can have it on like McCormick or something like that. Anyways, um, and then you asked me to marry you May of 94. And then we got married September of 94. It was just even a few months later, most people plan a wedding for a year. We're like, No, we just want to get married. Don't care. And it was wonderful. It was the best time again, though we were young, we were just going for it. We didn't really think about anything. Except getting married. And well, you know, you saying that makes I've thought about this, right? We've been talking about doing this, having this conversation. Yes. A little while this topic. And we with our backgrounds being so different. I've thought of how we probably approached it very differently in that I grew up where I grew up in my family. 30 years.

topic. And we with our backgrounds being so different. I've thought of how we probably approached it very differently in that I grew up where I grew up in my family. 30 years. That's table stakes. Right. My parents, my dad's passed away. But if he was still alive, they would be married close to 50 years, I think. Yeah. My aunts and uncles that I grew up with, they would all be married 5060 years. Yeah. So for me growing up, you got married. And that's what you did. Right. And it lasted forever. There was no element of no concept of say divorce, per se. Yeah. Whereas you have a very different background. And it's probably not a stable, right? We've talked about that. Right. So the motor is, you know, it's a very different concept. And so the motivations and the concept of marriage were probably different. But maybe opposites do attract because they aligned. And 30 years later, we're still married with three kids were we still like each other. Yeah, you know, yeah, we were both willing to take a risk. Yeah. For different reasons. Yeah, you were willing to risk it all. And you and your mind assumed this is forever. Yeah, like you were willing at 23 years old. I found my person. I'm ready to move on. And you were done. Like, let's do it. I was willing to take the risk of this could fall apart, because that's all I know. This could this I you know, this could be temporary, I could be devastated, heartbroken, hurt and left. But I still am going to marry this person because this is my person. So you took the risk with security. I took the risk with complete insecurity. Yeah. And it worked out. Yeah. Thank God. Well, I'm laughing because there were good conversations back then. Yeah, right. You probably had a little bit of

with complete insecurity. Yeah. And it worked out. Yeah. Thank God. Well, I'm laughing because there were good conversations back then. Yeah, right. You probably had a little bit of doubt. I had a lot of doubt. You had a lot. Not in you. Not in you. But just the institution. So I think when you are someone that come as a child of divorce, when you go to get married, you are you are truly risking it all. Yeah, because you so badly want to believe in happily ever after. And that this is forever. But you don't have never you've had no example of that. Yeah. And so it's hard to even believe in it. So when you go to get married, you're you are 100% saying, I'm going for it, even though I know there's a high probability, I'm going to be destroyed by this situation. But I love this person enough. And I have enough faith to try and to go for it. And so I think back now, it was probably kind of courageous of me to do it. Probably. Because I truly was saying, I really don't I don't part of me deep down inside probably thought there's no way this is going to work out because I just didn't ever know if it if it would I had no security in that. So I'm sure subconsciously not consciously, but subconsciously, there was always that fear for a while that okay, when is the when is the other shoe going to drop? Yeah, this is wonderful. And I think when you also grow up with a lot of instability, when things are good, you feel okay, this is only going to last so long, because something bad is about to happen. So I'm enjoying this happiness. And this, this is great. But I know something bad is going to happen. So you're kind of always on edge. You're like, you're, you're enjoying your happiness, only first to a certain level,

But I know something bad is going to happen. So you're kind of always on edge. You're like, you're, you're enjoying your happiness, only first to a certain level, because you're, you're kind of looking over your shoulder, like, okay, when's the bad thing going to come? So I think when you grow up with instability and divorce, and you get married, it's wonderful. But for I will say, I'll be honest, for the first 10 years of our marriage, I probably subconsciously was like, Okay, when is the other shoe going to drop? What this this can't be like, really how this is going to go this this is working out too well, something bad's going to happen. And it probably wasn't until the second decade of our marriage, where I was like, okay, this might be my reality, I might be getting the happily ever after. Yeah. And it was unbelievable to me. You know, I don't know if that makes sense. Because it wasn't a conscious thing. But it definitely, it was there. It was there. For sure. I do recall. Yeah. It was something was there. Yeah. Yeah. Just that, that trust. Yeah. It's that it wasn't even in you. It could have been it was just the concept of marriage. And this is something you do forever. Yes. Yeah. Well, you know, what, what changes it, though, honestly, once you have kids, then it becomes it's well, let me let me backtrack. I've always had the concept of you have your your an individual, I'm an individual. And then we come together, right? Yeah. And we have to maintain some individuality so that we stay centered and who we are as people, as individuals, right. And you can only be successful if you're okay there, and you bring it together. Right. So that's part one of marriage. Yes, then you have kids. And now it's me, you in this

right. And you can only be successful if you're okay there, and you bring it together. Right. So that's part one of marriage. Yes, then you have kids. And now it's me, you in this new little thing. You know, and that just changes. Right changes things so much, then you have another kid. And then you've got a house and oh, yeah, all of it expenses and it's a whole thing roles. So when you first no matter how old you are, when you get married, whether you're 2325 2935 40, how old you are. It's your roles, right? So it's, it's you have your individual. We I think we always said, we live our our lives. We have our individual lives, not that we're separate, but just our own person living parallel lives together. And so you have that when you're first married, you have your things, whether it's your job, your interest, your hobbies, whatever, and then you're together, then you have a child. So your roles change your parents together. Yeah. And you're separate, though, mom, dad, that's separate, and then parenting together. You know, and then it's building that life together while maintaining your own thing. And I think that can be such a challenge. Because speaking as a mom, it's I've spoken on this before, it's incredibly easy to lose yourself in being a mother, because your children truly become your entire world, whether you work outside the home or not, in general, you're consumed with that responsibility. Yeah. Women carry the emotional baggage of the entire family. A mother is only as happy as her most unhappy child. So every day, 24 seven, that's what's going on in a woman's mind, her mother's mind, heart, you know, her whole existence, right? So whether she's stayed home, mom works outside the home, she's consumed with that responsibility

her mother's mind, heart, you know, her whole existence, right? So whether she's stayed home, mom works outside the home, she's consumed with that responsibility of the family. And so I don't know. Do you disagree? I sort of do. I mean, I hear you. I do. Definitely. Or a woman will definitely handle most of the emotional load. But men do too. Dads do too, right? Yes. There's a lot of involved dads. Oh, yeah, maybe that's involved. So the difference is a shared responsibility for sure. With us. Yes, it's been a you've been very involved with the kids. And you are always have been there to when they need to talk to you. One thing I will say is I've gotten more involved over time, as I've matured and grown into this role. Right. So I do think in the instinctually, you've had that more at an earlier age, right? You definitely handled that over time, as I've kind of grown up, matured a little bit into this stuff. I can definitely take on or have taken on more of that. And I think it's probably more as the kids get have gotten older. And the problem with that is, those folks have a zinc Conference. That Cosco is a pilot, an actual Mountains. And he has bugs looking to test patients with it to get inspired, to test them, and not get guy Kelvin, b r, y, e. In general, this is in general, I know there's situations, this is not accurate, but in general, a woman's instinct as a mother is to just be all in right from the start. I know there's situations with postpartum depression and all that, so I'm not talking about that, but I'm talking about in general, when things are all going okay, a woman is, it's like a light switch. Will you guys carry the child for 10 months basically? Right, right, so it's just where, like you said,

when things are all going okay, a woman is, it's like a light switch. Will you guys carry the child for 10 months basically? Right, right, so it's just where, like you said, I think for men, they grow into it, a lot of them grow into it, and this goes back to getting married young and growing up together. So some things that were instinctual for me as a woman and as a mother, maybe it took you a little bit longer to get there as a father. No doubt. You grew up alongside your kids in some ways, if that makes sense. Whereas for me as a woman and as somebody who wanted to be a mother, like I really, really wanted to be a mother, so when I became one, I was all in, and it was the best thing ever. It is the best thing ever I've ever done in my entire life to this day. So for me, there was no hesitation, but for you, and maybe this is true for a lot of men, is it isn't just like light switch, and I think for some men it is, but it's you kind of grow up with the children and mature with the children. I wonder if that's true, I kind of flipped that to make that more about my own personal experience, but I am curious, I'm thinking about it now that I've said it, I know other people who I think are like that. Their wives are the primary caretaker, and as dads, they've grown up over time and learned how to do it. For me, us having a boy as our first, it's like, all right, cool, let's go get a ball, and we'll play catch, and we'll teach them how to hit a baseball throw a football or kick a sock, whatever, right? Go fishing, those type of things. That's how we grow into it. As crazy as that is. Yeah, no, I think that's how you bond. So, but then again, if you had waited to get married and become a father, do you think you would

That's how we grow into it. As crazy as that is. Yeah, no, I think that's how you bond. So, but then again, if you had waited to get married and become a father, do you think you would have been any more in tune to being a parent, or at 35, would you still had to figure it all out and grow up with your children as you did at 25? I think yes, but it would have been different. I probably would have been more jaded, kind of like we were talking about, right? By being pretty innocent and like, oh my gosh, look at this little creature. It's the best thing. It's funny, in my adult life, I've not cried a whole lot of times, but I've cried each time one of our kids was born, because it's just magical. It is. It's like, wow, this is amazing. It's an emotion that you do not have until you become a parent. There is an emotion that exists that a person does not have experience. Maybe they have it inside of them, but it doesn't become alive to the surface until you become a parent. And that's why people who haven't had children yet or don't have children, maybe don't understand the craziness that parents portray and how we are, it's just without thinking that we will do anything for these children, because it's an emotion that came as soon as you became a parent. I can't even find words for it, because it's beyond love. It's crazy. But as far as being more jaded when you're older, I could see that, and probably more fearful. Yeah. More fearful. I don't know. Listen, I tell people, they're in marriage. Marriage is hard. And there's bad days, there's bad weeks, there's bad months, there's bad years. And whenever I say there's bad years, some people are like, "What?" And I'm not talking about people in abusive situations.

there's bad months, there's bad years. And whenever I say there's bad years, some people are like, "What?" And I'm not talking about people in abusive situations. That's totally different. But yeah, this is marriage, and some years are gonna kinda suck. You may have a year that sucks. And sure, it doesn't mean every day sucks, but in general, that was a bad year. Does not mean you get divorced. Like, it means this is the dark time to ride through. This is when the roller coaster is crashing and you have to hold on, because it's gonna get back on track. You have to trust in that, and it will. And the ride will continue, and it will get glorious again. It's almost a call out to middle school parents. Because middle school probably is the hardest part if you have kids, really. Navigating through middle school, it's funny. Everyone talks about middle school is terrible. Yeah, for everybody. It really is. For everybody. The homework load, the other kids, not necessarily being nice to your kids, whatever it might be, it's not a fun time. No, I think that when you're raising kids, once their kids get to middle school and high school to some degree, it's such a, it's draining, right? It is. But it isn't to say that what makes a marriage difficult are the kids or what they're going through. But we're all going, it's hard for kids to realize, but your parents are living life for the first time too. I've never been 53 before. This is my first time being 53. So every day and every year is new for us. And we're learning every day as well. Also, when you're a parent, every day you're growing as a person, there is no stagnation. Because you have to grow and adjust as your children grow and adjust, as your children grow. So you're learning how

every day you're growing as a person, there is no stagnation. Because you have to grow and adjust as your children grow and adjust, as your children grow. So you're learning how to parent these children, which forces you to grow every day almost. There's really no point where you don't feel challenged. There may be days off where everything's perfect, but invariably something comes up and you have to rise to the occasion. And this is our first time doing this too. Even if you have multiple kids, we have three kids, but all three of them are different. So sure, we may be figured out how to raise our older son, but then by the time we got to our younger son, it's first of all, he's living in a totally different world than media and technology than our older son was. It's like being a different parent. And then we have a daughter, that's completely different parenting. So you're always growing and changing. And then, so then put that on top of doing it young, when you're also still growing up as a person, it can cause some strain, it can cause some challenges, but then through growth, I always feel comes, just the best things in life. And I think through the dark times and the hard times, your marriage only gets stronger. When you get through the dark times and the hard times in your marriage and you come out of it, you almost feel unstoppable as a couple. Like you're so close after going through those hard times together. So what do you think keeps that going in the sense of? So, okay, so my number one thing, if somebody asked me what is the success to a 30 year marriage? And I can speak to that right now. Friendship, friendship and respect. We were friends first. I think it's so important to be friends first, if you can,

to a 30 year marriage? And I can speak to that right now. Friendship, friendship and respect. We were friends first. I think it's so important to be friends first, if you can, or at least to create that friendship first, because from that friendship becomes respect. And it's a different respect than respecting the person you love. You're respecting this person as a good friend. That's a totally different respect. So in all of our times, like ups and downs, when we're on downs, there was just certain things we would never do to each other. We never cheated. We never cheated physically. We never cheated emotionally. I mean, we never even came close to any of that. That's just not even in the landscape of the marriage, because it's such a respect thing. I don't think either one of us could have looked the other in the eye for even a second if we had cheated because of that friendship and that respect. There are certain things we wouldn't say to each other. Now we have got, our kids can tell you, we've gotten in spats, we've gotten in full blown arguments. We've sworn in each other. I know there's people are like, I never swear. And my husband, we don't swear. And I'm like, oh God. Multiple, that's all. Multiple, yeah. But there still is a certain level in our arguing we won't go to. Yeah, I can't explain it, but because that respect and friendship is there. And it's what's gotten us through. There's times when things have felt like they are gonna, like we're just falling apart, it's chaos, but that friendship and respect has kept us getting through it. And I'm just talking about normal life stuff. Obviously there's no abuse going on here. So I'm not talking about that next level. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, I was just

us getting through it. And I'm just talking about normal life stuff. Obviously there's no abuse going on here. So I'm not talking about that next level. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, I was just trying to think of examples of say those dark times and it's, I don't think we've ever had dark, dark, dark times. We've had probably just patches like you're talking about where it's just, life's just crazy, right? Whatever it might be. It's like sleep deprivation, dealing with stuff with the kids, whatever it might be. Yeah, and even like with the economy, like throughout the last 30 years, money can put a big stress too. There's so many different things that cause stresses in a marriage and we've moved. Like that's caused stress. Yeah, when I'm talking dark, I'm not talking, I mean, there's people that have gone through some really horrible things and had to get through those things together. Very fortunate. We've been very fortunate, very blessed. So I'm definitely not trying to belittle some situations that other families have been in. But for us, what has gotten us through was that, in my opinion, we obviously love each other, but that friendship and that respect is so key to a marriage. I think it's the glue that holds it together. Yeah, probably. And I think, I don't know, you could speak to this, but you've been, you're really a family man. On Fridays, would come home, you didn't stop at a bar. You didn't golf all day every Saturday and not spend, your priority when you weren't working was spending as much time with the kids and with me as possible. And I think that has a lot to do with it. I think the involvement of a father is key in that way. I do believe that. I think, I don't, wouldn't say I've sat back and contemplated I need

And I think that has a lot to do with it. I think the involvement of a father is key in that way. I do believe that. I think, I don't, wouldn't say I've sat back and contemplated I need to take this seriously or anything like that. But I do think a dad's role in a family with kids is equally as important as a mom's role in 100%. 100%, yeah. I think the, I'm probably more of a social introvert as opposed to someone who goes out and wants to be out. I like being home. I'm a homebody, as you know, right? That's caused problems because I wanted to go out. There's a dark time. There's one of our challenges. I would prefer to stay home. Yep, always. Okay, so as a side note, because I'm sure there's women out there that can relate to this, but even to go out to dinner, Brian needs a two week notice and then reminders. Kind of like when you need to tell the young child to play ground, you're like 15 more minutes, 10 more minutes. That's not fair. It's true. So, and a lot, and what's funny is in our younger years, okay, so this is, I'm so glad you brought this up. This is part of growing up together. In the first 10 years of our marriage, because I crack up that I can speak in decades now, I didn't know this about you because we met in college and college is so social. And we were always at parties, always doing social things as friends, going to Grateful Dead concerts, everything was social. I had no concept that you were antisocial. And it's, and I- That's a strong word. But essentially you're an introvert and you don't wanna go out. So that's kind of antisocial. But there's a lot of people like that actually. There's a ton of people like that, but I'm social, right? And so when you're young and you're having children and there's other

But there's a lot of people like that actually. There's a ton of people like that, but I'm social, right? And so when you're young and you're having children and there's other couples with young children and you're all hanging out, it's the natural thing to get together. When we lived in New Jersey, we would get together with couples once a month for game night or go to dinner. But it was always a struggle to get you to come to get you to wanna go to the events. And we battled over that. We had numerous fights over that. Not, it would never clicked with me that I'm married to an introvert. I wasn't old enough. So you grew up in maturity, recognized that. I wasn't, yeah, I wasn't old enough and mature enough to see, to realize this. I also didn't know what introvert and extrovert were in my 20s, I had no idea. And then, and even your mom would tell stories about how when you were little, young and they would all go out to dinner and you wouldn't wanna go and you and your mom would battle over that. But then this is the thing. As soon as you get to where you're going, you're having the best time and everyone would think it's your idea in the first place. So that was that full growing up together and realizing, oh, okay, so there's this characteristic about this person. If I would have known that earlier, I would have handled things better. I personally would have handled things better. And I would have figured out a better way to communicate. But because I didn't understand, it always was a fight. Does that make sense? 100%. And if you knew this about yourself, you could have communicated it to me. I could have articulated it so much better to say, hey, I really don't like to do this because this, that, the other thing. Instead, it was like,

you could have communicated it to me. I could have articulated it so much better to say, hey, I really don't like to do this because this, that, the other thing. Instead, it was like, no, I don't wanna go. And then I-- No, I don't like Italian food on Thursdays. No, I don't like playing games with people, whatever it is, right? It's so true. So maybe that goes to getting married later in life. You probably are more self-aware. So then maybe you can communicate to someone better, hey, I've learned a lot about myself. Let me let you in on who I am. And it's straight on, the cards are on the table, where for us, we just jumped in and now we're gonna figure it all out as we're trying to tread water. That can be challenging. That can be really challenging. I would say that's a challenge of getting married. Young, you haven't figured yourself out yet. Exactly. So now you're figuring yourself out. You've got this other person who's figuring their themselves out. And now you're trying to do it together. There's a little friction there for sure. For sure, yeah, for sure. But then once you get through it, you're stronger. So I don't know if I'm accurate in this thinking, but it seems that the generations now, like Gen Z, and I don't know if the millennials were like this, but it seems like the older Gen Zs that are starting to get married or thinking about getting married, a lot of them seem to think you need to have everything before you get married. Or as soon as you get married, you should have the nice house, the two nice cars, the dog, this wonderful, perfect, beautiful life. Now, I would say in general for Gen X, we kind of knew you're gonna build a life together. You're gonna start with nothing. You're gonna start in an apartment.

this wonderful, perfect, beautiful life. Now, I would say in general for Gen X, we kind of knew you're gonna build a life together. You're gonna start with nothing. You're gonna start in an apartment. And then you're gonna live in the apartment for a while. And then eventually you'll buy your first house, but it's gonna be small, run down, probably have to work on it, live in that for a while. And then maybe you sell that and get a nicer, like you create your life together, right? And I think social media in some ways has made the Gen Z generation think that they need to have everything right away. But I'm here to say part of marriage, a huge part of marriage is building that life together, is starting with just a small amount, an apartment and very little money and building to the next step, to the next step, to the next step so that when you get to where you finally wanna be, you build that together and that's part of marriage. So you're almost going the route of, it's more about the journey than the end result. 100%. And I think that the journey of building that life together, starting in the apartment, buying your first house that's run down, eventually getting a nicer house, starting with a junky car, getting a little bit nicer car, then getting nicer. I think that journey, and I'm talking about material things, I'm aware of that. But that journey is what strengthens a marriage, it's what creates a marriage. In addition to having children, raising those children, but creating that life together is what creates the marriage. And so if you start out at the destination, then what are you creating together? What is your thing that you did together? Yeah, so I mean, I think, hey, if these kids can start out at 25, 26, 27

And so if you start out at the destination, then what are you creating together? What is your thing that you did together? Yeah, so I mean, I think, hey, if these kids can start out at 25, 26, 27 with everything, God bless them. But I just, and I have nothing against those young couples. Honestly, that's wonderful for them. But I just don't want younger people that don't have that to feel that they're failing. Do you think what you're describing is more of a divorce generation, say like an advanced divorce generation, or, right, because we talked about this, where when we were growing up, divorce has been around forever, but it really hit us at our age. Oh, there's no question, Gen X are the children of where divorce became part of society. Now that there's this maturing, right? And maybe some of the, would you say the millennials? Or the-- I was talking about the Gen Zs. I don't know what the millennials, if they-- I just wonder if that's part of the calculus there in terms of we want to get things squared away because-- Oh, the fear. The fear, that kind of thing, yeah. So maybe the misconception that, okay, if we have, let's just not get married until we both have good jobs. And until we both can buy a nice car, and then we can buy a nice house, and then let's get everything set up, all of our ducks in a row, everything's perfect, then let's get married. So that they think that's what's gonna make it so you don't get divorced. They may be misconstruing that-- Might be a wild idea too, though. I don't know if that's in play. No, I don't know. But that idea is, it's kind of missing the point of the building together to accomplish all that is what strengthens your marriage. You're gonna find more strength in building

But that idea is, it's kind of missing the point of the building together to accomplish all that is what strengthens your marriage. You're gonna find more strength in building that dream together than just making sure the dream is sitting there when you get home from the wedding or the reception. Like you get home from your honeymoon, you go to your perfect life. That's not gonna guarantee you that you're not gonna get divorced. And there's so much to be said. Or not even divorced, just be happy. Or be happy. There's so much to be said for going through trials and tribulations together. It's what strengthens a relationship. It's what tells you, it's what clues you in on, oh, we're happy in this moment, we're content, things are good. If things are great all the time on the surface, then you don't have-- But it's your mind wander a bit. Yeah, yeah, I think, yes, you're not grounded. I think the meat and potatoes of marriage, going through working your ass off together in every aspect and just struggling. We sacrificed a lot at times, a lot, to get to where we are now. But that struggling is what has sustained us and gotten us to 30 years of marriage. It's a share, it's more like a sense of shared accomplishment. Yes. And it's almost as simple as if you painted your house or cleaning your house. There's a sense of accomplishment. Yes. It's sort of the same concept. Yeah, it is, it's a sense of accomplishment. And then as a result, you appreciate your life. Yeah, yeah. So gratitude, I can't overstate this enough. Gratitude is so imperative in a marriage. It's really recognizing, looking around and really appreciating what you have, like what you've done, what you've built, whether you're just starting off in the apartment,

It's really recognizing, looking around and really appreciating what you have, like what you've done, what you've built, whether you're just starting off in the apartment, you're in the apartment, you guys are doing it together. Those are gonna be some of the best years of your life. Only can afford a 16. Some of my fondest memories when we lived in that little felony flats. Oh my gosh. Place in Portland, Southeast Portland, right off of 82nd Ave. Anyone familiar with Gary knows it's called Felony Flats. We lived next to him, but that guy, he was a meth dealer. And we brought Nathan home to that little house. We had Mocha, we had a little three foot high fence. And I remember coming home for work, Mocha would hop the fence, then would hop back over. That was our jam for a while. Yeah, and one of the-- It was fun. And it was fun. And one of the reasons we lived in, I mean, when I tell you this house was the size of a normal bedroom, the whole house. Yeah, literally. The kitchen was the size of a coat closet and I'm not exaggerating. The bathroom was the same. But one of the reasons we did that though, is because you and I, and we've talked about this in other episodes, we had discussed before getting married that I wanted to be a stay at home mom. My reasons were because I wanted that because I didn't have that growing up. You wanted me to be a stay at home mom because that's what you had growing up. We established that before getting married. Again, I can't stress that enough to have that conversation. But in order for me to be a stay at home mom at 25, or I turned 26 right before having Nathan, we had to live in felony flats in a house the size of a normal bedroom next to a meth dealer. Now it was safe, I will say that.

or I turned 26 right before having Nathan, we had to live in felony flats in a house the size of a normal bedroom next to a meth dealer. Now it was safe, I will say that. I did not feel unsafe. He was a smart meth dealer because he made sure to take care of us. He didn't make the meth there either. I could say that because that's dangerous. He was a very, he was a shady dude, but he was a nice. I think he thought we were this cute little family. He's probably happy there's normal people living next to him. But I think the rent, and I think it was $500 a month, 450 a month, something very low, but it allowed. And it was two miles from where I was working. It was two miles. I think you biked to work at one point. Because we had one car. So we, when I say sacrifice, so we made the decision. We wanted me home with Nathan, our older son. So we needed to downgrade our living situation. And that was the sacrifice, right? But not everybody needs to do that. Some people are comfortable with the two people working and a child in daycare. There were choices. That's fine too. We did make choices too, where we could have lived closer to family and had an easier life and had connections with jobs or whatever, right? Right. But we chose to be where we wanted to be and figured it out from there. Yes. So there's choices that were made. It's true. And they were fine. Yeah. No regrets actually. Like I said, I think we both look back on them fondly, really. Oh my gosh. When you can only afford like a six pack and a pizza on a Friday and that's your big night out. Like, and you're not even going out. Having it at home. But those are some of the best times. And yeah, I would say from the start, we always blazed our own trail. Are you kidding?

Like, and you're not even going out. Having it at home. But those are some of the best times. And yeah, I would say from the start, we always blazed our own trail. Are you kidding? Like we told our family at 23, we're getting married in Vegas, whether you like it or not. So yeah, we are definitely that couple that does what is right for us. We've talked about this in other episodes. We've always tried to recognize what's going to be best for us, what's gonna serve us. Not in a selfish way, but as far as knowing boundaries and all of that to keep things for mental health. And there was stuff going on. It was better for us to not be living near certain situations. But again, it's okay to have those years where you don't have everything. That's the point. That's the point. But again, hey, if you've struggled at the age of 25, 26, 27, wonderful. There's nothing wrong with that. That's amazing. But this is for young people that maybe are still building their lives and are thinking, I'm not gonna be able to afford to buy a house. Now again, in this economy right now, it's so unusual, no one can. But under normal circumstances, if you're feeling it, how am I gonna do this? How am I gonna do this American dream? How am I going to buy a house? And there may be young men that are thinking, I want my wife to stay home, but how am I going to afford that? So it is attainable. It's just, there's gonna be some struggle in that. And your outside image, you can't worry about that. You can't sometimes worry about what kind of car you're driving or where you're living while you're building the dream, you need to remember what your end game is. And that you will get there. So I don't know. I mean, that's, again, we went through a lot of that.

while you're building the dream, you need to remember what your end game is. And that you will get there. So I don't know. I mean, that's, again, we went through a lot of that. Not going without certain things so that we could have a certain lifestyle with the kids. But again, that's what was important to us. There may be people that don't want kids, get married. You know, and that's a whole different lifestyle. So it doesn't mean that marriage is any easier either. You still have to work together as a couple, put in the time, you listen to your partner. And it's hard though. But I think as you start young, if you do get married young, you are growing up together and you're also figuring out who you are. And there's a lot of, again, that's a great thing at times, but that can be a challenging thing. But I wouldn't change anything. No, I couldn't imagine doing it any differently, quite frankly. I don't know how, there's just no regrets in my mind. How that playbook would have worked out differently if we did it some other way. Right, there's no regret, no doubts, nothing like that. Yeah, no. I mean, I think there is that feeling when you meet your person of a meant to be feeling. You know, you're from New Jersey, I'm from Oregon. Yeah. Where are the chances? So I think that there's, I don't know. I think you know when you meet your person, but I think it's important to trust in how you're feeling and not talk yourself out of something because of outside influences, whether it's the world, whether it's family, whether it's friends. If you know this is your person, then just trust in that and do life together. Go do life together, because I'm here to tell you life goes fast. 30 years does not feel like 30 years.

If you know this is your person, then just trust in that and do life together. Go do life together, because I'm here to tell you life goes fast. 30 years does not feel like 30 years. No, not at all. And I pray we have 30 more together. Yeah. So, and that's gonna go fast. So if you've met your person, go for it, do it. I think the thing too, though, is once you hit a certain age, maybe it's like 40 or something, I don't know, but life starts to speed up for sure. It speeds up so much. We're in our low fifties now. That seemed impossible five years ago. Yeah, when you're 25, you think 50 is old. And I'm here to also say when you're 50, you still feel 25. Like you're more mature and you have more life experience, but you don't feel like an old person, like you think old people feel like us. I'm honestly still trying to figure out what I'll do when I grow up. Yeah, it's so true. Just not, you know. It's so true. You know, so I think don't hesitate so much. I think it's hard, you know, people need to just say, "Okay, you know what, let's just do it. "Let's just do life together." What if it's right though? I don't, yeah, if we could be coming across here like, "Yeah, go get married," you know, in your 20s, it's not the message at all. It's only if it seems right and you think you found your person, but I wouldn't rush into this just to rush into it to check a box. Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not. No, that's not what I mean at all. No, I know. What I mean is if you're in your 20s or your 30s and you meet your person, go do life together. Don't feel like, "Okay, we can't start until we own our home "or until we have two nice cars "or until we live where we wanna live." That will all happen. Just go get married and start doing life together.

until we own our home "or until we have two nice cars "or until we live where we wanna live." That will all happen. Just go get married and start doing life together. Just do it. And it will all work out. If you've met your person, you're gonna do it. It's gonna happen together. You don't need to have all the ducks in the room. I think it's the same for having kids too, right? Yes. There's definitely been a dip in seeing young kids lately. I think that's COVID related. I think it's economically the economy, inflation, COVID, a new generation. But I've started to see babies again. Yeah. And I have at least a couple. Yes. Not newborns, but having kids again. Well, there's also been a whole new shift with a lot of women who are choosing not to have children. A lot of women are choosing not to get married. They don't want to... I think they view it as just taking care of a man, unfortunately. And I think there are men that have led them to believe that. I think there's men in society that have led them to believe that. So it's valid how they're feeling. But it's unfortunate because there is such positivity in friendship and marriage and partnership. And there is so many joys in being a parent. But I think that a lot... There's the jaded you talked about. I think there's a lot of jaded young women who are like, "Screw that. I'm doing what I want to do. I'm not taking care of a man. I don't want to be a mother. It's too much." And I get it, but I think there's been a shift. Right? You think it's women making that decision and not men? Or you think it's 50-50? Or women are just saying, "No, I'm not doing it." I can only speak to women. Like, okay, so there's two things going on. So like I've spoken about before,

and not men? Or you think it's 50-50? Or women are just saying, "No, I'm not doing it." I can only speak to women. Like, okay, so there's two things going on. So like I've spoken about before, the Gen Z women are honoring their... Especially their 20s decade is their self-care decade. And it's not a placeholder for marriage. And I think that's phenomenal. But then there's also young women that are like, "I don't want to get married at all." Like, I'm not even... This isn't even a self-care decade. This is like how my life's going to be. So I can speak to that. If I had to guess on why young men... I don't think in general, young men are going through a whole, "I don't want to get married." But I definitely think there's young men that are thinking, "How am I going to buy a house? How am I going to support my family?" Especially in this economy right now, and how things have been going. I don't know a future generation, if the Boomers and probably Gen X to some degree have made it easy on them as far as buying homes. I mean, the Boomers are holding on to their homes. Where in the past... They're about to move on though. But in the past, the older people would sell their house and go into retirement living, right? It's not happening as much anymore. So those homes are not being relinquished. Well, they're not just... It's not even just that. A lot of the Boomer homes are big and beautiful, right? A lot of Boomers are sitting on McMansions that are very expensive. So they're not necessarily your entry-level housing. So there's a huge economic pressure there. What's going on with the housing market? It's a whole nother conversation, but I definitely think it is in the minds of the young men. I'm sure it is. But I feel like

economic pressure there. What's going on with the housing market? It's a whole nother conversation, but I definitely think it is in the minds of the young men. I'm sure it is. But I feel like there's more of a hesitation that the slowdown in marriage and having children, I think is more on the young women. So I hope that changes. I think they're looking for more equality in their partnerships. I really do. I think that they don't really like the traditional roles as much or what they perceive of what that means. I'm sure a lot of them would be fine being a stay-at-home mom if they felt they had the same level of respect and appreciation for doing that. So that's like a whole thing going on. And then even like working, why should I work and then come home and take care of everything at home and the kids, they wanna make sure that whoever they marry is going to be there for everything. So they're making sure that before they get married. When you say be there for everything, what does that even mean? Sharing housework. Shared or take care of it all? No, no. They want 50-50, they want you to help with the housework, have childcare, like watching the children take care of the children. Let me ask you, do you think that works? Because that's not how we've been straight up. I don't do various things and you don't do various things in my start a fight. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You have roles, there's functional roles that make sense that are shared responsibilities that keep things moving forward. So if you're asking what do I think are the key to successes and roles, I can speak to our situation like you just said and I'll say it straight out. You take care of everything outside of the house, like the yard, everything like that, you fix everything.

I can speak to our situation like you just said and I'll say it straight out. You take care of everything outside of the house, like the yard, everything like that, you fix everything. You take care of all technology. You take care of just pretty much all of the-- The man things. The man things, I was trying not to say that. You take care of if the cars have issues. If it's mine or you'll take care of it, if not, we take it somewhere. But I take care of the domestic stuff. I've taken care of the cooking, the cleaning, the grocery shopping, the errands, the pet, taking the pets to the vet, all the kids' schedules. That is what I've taken care of. But I am a stay-at-home mom. So I'm not doing that on top of working outside the home. I think that's different. So if you have a woman who's working eight hours outside the home, No, that's where it becomes a challenge. Then he should be helping with half of all that stuff. Too many women are coming home after working all day and nothing's been done in the house. No one's planning dinner except them. The, I've been having to figure out what this family's having for dinner. This is a big thing. For 30 years, I've been figuring out what everyone is going to eat for dinner. And a lot of times for lunch and breakfast, women are tired of that. And I can't imagine working all day and then coming home and having to figure out what everyone's having for dinner night after night. Women are burnt on that. I'll tell you that right now. But I think a lot of it is because they're working two jobs. Women are working outside the home and women are working, doing the job of a stay-at-home mom when they get home at night and on the weekends. It's too much to expect of women. It's not fair.

Women are working outside the home and women are working, doing the job of a stay-at-home mom when they get home at night and on the weekends. It's too much to expect of women. It's not fair. And so I do understand why young women are saying, hey, before I get married, if I'm working, you better be helping me with half because I'm not doing what I've seen my mom, my aunt, my friends' moms go through. They've witnessed the stress of that on women. And they're like, I am not going to be that person. So I will not commit to you until we have this conversation. Really, it's a fascinating thing because it's an evolutionary thing. Back in the 50s to the last millennium, or the last century, it's just this evolutionary thing. Women have started to work outside of the home. And now that pushes an additional responsibility onto the traditional roles that men and women have played. Well, what happened was in the 80s, all the women was go to work, working women. It's all celebrated. That's all great. You have your choices and that is great. Go do what you need to do. But there was not that relationship switch of, let's talk about this first, okay, how is-- Unintended consequences. Completely unintended consequences. Women working outside the home, as a society, we didn't also say, okay, now that women are working outside the home, you need to have a conversation as partners. How is everything domestically gonna change? Nothing domestically changed. It was still all on the women. You get to be the strong woman working outside the home, but guess what? You come home and you're still doing all the same stuff that a woman was doing. I think it's just now, really in the last 10 years, where that conversation's happening of, okay, I don't wanna

You come home and you're still doing all the same stuff that a woman was doing. I think it's just now, really in the last 10 years, where that conversation's happening of, okay, I don't wanna come home and do everything that a stay-at-home mom does. And if I'm going to, then I want my husband to make enough money so I can be a stay-at-home mom. There's a lot of young women that are like, I'll take care of all that, but I wanna be a stay-at-home mom. It's almost like you can't have both. For too long, men have had both. They've had those stay-at-home mom who works outside the home. It's been a, women going into the workforce, it was wonderful for women, but it was really great for men because they got an extra income and they still have their wife or girlfriend, whatever, doing the same stuff that the women who stayed home did. It's funny you say that because I think back in the day, men were probably bitching that women are in the workforce taking their jobs. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, there's no winning right here, but I think now there's another shift. And again, it's these Gen Z women and these younger millennial women, I love them. But I think they're saying, okay, we are having this conversation, it's part of having the conversation of the roles. This is the new role conversation. You and I had it back in 1993 about, I wanna be a stay-at-home mom, you wanted your wife to be a stay-at-home mom, it all worked out. The new conversation is, okay, if I'm gonna work, you're gonna do 50-50 at home. You're gonna take care of the kid. There's no, I'm gonna go golfing and we're just assuming I get my Saturday free. No, no, no, this is 50-50. Or you're gonna make enough money and I'll stay home and take care of everything.

There's no, I'm gonna go golfing and we're just assuming I get my Saturday free. No, no, no, this is 50-50. Or you're gonna make enough money and I'll stay home and take care of everything. So it's just, they're way more assertive about it. I love it, but what concerns me is, are the young men gonna rise to the occasion? Because we still need people to get married and have children to keep our society going. You want your society to function at a level where everyone can continue to do what the previous generation did, right? That's part of your culture. But when you've got these various constructs that are making it harder for young people to get together to afford things, to have a decent lifestyle, that's where all this other stuff comes into play. I think this is one of the hardest times in history for young Americans to even attempt to get the American dream. It's hands down. It's a simple economic thing though. It's supply and demand. And there's not enough supply of things, goods and services and homes and whatever, and there's more demand. So the price has gone up. And you're right, it's very difficult. It's extremely difficult. So you have a lot of stuff going on. You have the head going on, which is huge. And then you have a shift in how the young women, their expectations of marriage. I mean, you definitely still have young women who are very traditional. And there's a whole segment of that. And that's where everything exists. But there is definitely a new shift. And I think it's great. I just think, keep everything in perspective. So if you do meet someone and he's like, hey, yeah, I will, we've had this conversation and I'll do this, then go for it. Like don't keep analyzing it. Have your conversation. If this all fits, go for it.

hey, yeah, I will, we've had this conversation and I'll do this, then go for it. Like don't keep analyzing it. Have your conversation. If this all fits, go for it. But if you continue to wait and be like, well, let's just make sure, let's do one more year. You know how I feel about, I've said this, that if a guy doesn't, a guy knows within a year. And if he doesn't make his move in three years, what's happening? Like he needs to make his move. Because life's happening. Like let's move on with this. It's an interesting thing. I'm happy for these young girls that are, you know, protecting themselves, I guess, or looking out for themselves a little bit better. I think that's a great thing. They don't wanna be someone's maid. Yeah. They're like, I'm not gonna just have children and cook for you and clean your house and cook for you. I wanna be a valued partner in this marriage. And I think it's amazing. Well, it's an interesting thing because again, evolutionarily speaking, there used to be male and female roles, hunters and gatherers, those types of things, right? Society's changed and you have to continue to evolve that. And there's no reason for a young woman to not embrace that and look out for herself. Yes, that's exactly what it is. But I think it went through watching, I think the Gen Z women are raised by Gen X and general women. And so they've watched, okay, so the Gen Z women have been raised by Gen X women. So they've watched the Gen X women that have gone to work and come home exhausted and stressed and then dealing with cleaning the house, cooking and all the responsibilities. And I think they've thought, I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna look, I don't wanna feel exhausted. I don't wanna look as stressed out as my

cooking and all the responsibilities. And I think they've thought, I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna look, I don't wanna feel exhausted. I don't wanna look as stressed out as my mom or my aunt looks. I want more out of life. I want more than that. That's not the role I wanna play. And so they're kind of redefining their role. They still want a partner and they still wanna get married in general. But they're saying, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah. Like, it's great, you wanna marry me and you wanna give me a ring and all that. But I have some things to say to you first. Well, it's not just I have some things to say to you, but I have certain needs that I want to be met. Exactly. And I'm not just willing to sacrifice all those. Yeah. It was kind of just this craziness. Like women went back to work and then they've just been like treading water for a few decades. Well, society figured all that out. And then the daycare institutions popped up and everyone just was kind of like figuring it all out. And I think this generation is saying, okay, everybody stop. This is chaos. Things need to change. And I think it's wonderful. And they're not saying, they're not saying meaning things have to change. I don't wanna get married. They're saying before I get married, I need a little bit more order to this or else I'm gonna be burned out by the time I'm 40 because I've been killing myself at work and at home. Yeah. A lot of them wanna live their soft life. Like a soft life is where every day doesn't feel like a struggle. Every day you're not killing yourself for something. They want it to be a little easier on them and that's shared responsibility. Or that's my husband is going to go to work and I'm gonna take care of things at home.

killing yourself for something. They want it to be a little easier on them and that's shared responsibility. Or that's my husband is going to go to work and I'm gonna take care of things at home. And that's not easy either. I've lived that for 30 years. A lot of women will tell you who've been home going to work was easier. But it's at home, it never ends 24 seven. There's no end. It's everyone has access to you 24 seven. That's a totally different ball game. But you at least have that one job. So it's not two. You're not going to work and doing that job. You have one job. So some of the responsibility is taken off of women a little bit and shared. Yeah. So I think it's good. I mean, I see that more now with just folks I work with and people I know that we know out and about, right? Through our kids activities that work two jobs and they do share things probably. Yeah. You know? Yeah. We just happen to live a very traditional life but that's what we wanted. And even at the age of 22, we communicated that before even getting engaged. That's what's worked for us. It doesn't mean we think this is what everyone should do. Figure out what works for you, both of you. And then go for it. Once you've had, once you figured out, do it. And you can probably speak to carrying the financial load. You know, like I've carried the emotional load of this family and the domestic load and keeping the home front down. And the home front is so important. The home front is the foundation that the entire family bounces off of every day. I can't say how much I value women and men, there's men too, that create a successful home front everyone can bounce off of and be successful when they leave the house. But you've carried the financial load

I value women and men, there's men too, that create a successful home front everyone can bounce off of and be successful when they leave the house. But you've carried the financial load so that I can be home doing the home front. And that's a whole different stress that I think isn't discussed what men go through. Yeah. Because it can keep you up at night. Tell you the truth, I don't even know if I'm prepared to talk about it right now. Cause it's just a fascinating thing, right? When you're the primary breadwinner, you've got to continue to hustle. You've got to continue to probably compromise, compromise on many fronts. You've got to keep your eye on what's going on in the macro and micro economic environments of your life, right? The broader economy, the trends, all that stuff, right? We all become small economists in a sense. We all joke that we're all meteorologists when it comes to the weather, you become somewhat of an economist in your local life. You've got to figure out how to pay for college. Do you want your kids to go to private school or do they go into public school? All that stuff, right? So. How much does Costco cost? Yeah, I know it's crazy. Yeah, it's because you also have, if you're in a situation where the woman is doing the grocery shopping, your girlfriend, partner, wife is going and buying food every week and that fluctuates. And it fluctuates on how much did you spend this week on? How much is it gonna cost? Everyone needs new shoes. Everyone needs new clothes. The lights need to be on. The water bill needs to be paid. I'm the, I've become my dad, right? I walk around the house and I'm the guy who turns off every freaking light switch in the house. Well now actually we've got smart bulbs.

I'm the, I've become my dad, right? I walk around the house and I'm the guy who turns off every freaking light switch in the house. Well now actually we've got smart bulbs. So I can do it from my phone. Yeah. Very well worth the investment. But it's so true because you're paying that bill. Hell yeah. And so it probably almost starts to feel offensive. It is, it does get offensive. Cause you start to look at, offensive, I don't know, it might be too strong. I'm saying loosely, loosely. But it's like, okay, I need new sneakers and new sneakers today are two to $300. Well, it depends on which ones you're buying. Yeah. You're talking about your child, right? Yeah, not me. I'm looking, you know. Your child is coming to you. I'm in the boomer generation of New Balance. You know, side note on New Balance, it sucks cause New Balance were quite affordable for guys my age. Now they're back in, it's like, wait, what? I paid 30 bucks last year for that. Dad's shoes. Yeah. Yeah, your dad's shoes. No, but okay, so if you have a young, in certain ages, kids think that they need to have $200, $300 shoes. Well, it's not just that, but it's the lights are on, water's running, the door's open and we wanna go on vacation. Yeah. You know, it's like, all this stuff is related. Yes. You know, and it's not, it's just what makes it so offensive, I think, is that inflation is out of control and nothing is cheap anymore. So everything's expensive. So it's like... There's no break. There's just no break, yeah. There's just, and it's, you know. It doesn't matter what's going on. We're very, very fortunate. Yes. But there is no break, everything is offensively expensive. Nothing's cheap. Nothing's really cheap anymore. No. Even gumballs, right? How much is a gumball?

We're very, very fortunate. Yes. But there is no break, everything is offensively expensive. Nothing's cheap. Nothing's really cheap anymore. No. Even gumballs, right? How much is a gumball? Like a buck probably or something? I don't know. Well, I mean a pack of gum. If they make them anymore. But no, you don't get a break. That's a whole nother thing. We've never experienced in our 30 years of marriage what we've gone through the last three years for our budget with pricing for food, gas. We've never experienced it. It's just exponential on all fronts. No, since 1994, we have never had this experience. And I can say from the person who's been doing all of the grocery shopping, all of it for 32 years. And I can tell you right now, I've never experienced something like this before. As a result, yeah, everybody's, they don't say checkbooks, but everyone's tightening up their money because everything is so expensive. You know, it's funny, and this is such a boomer statement. So take it with a grain of salt. I remember buying gas for 79 cents a gallon. Yeah. And my dad gave me his credit card. It was the shell card. I could go and buy a tank of gas for eight bucks or nine bucks, right? And now, wow. I forget it. Yeah, I don't even, it's like, what are we, you know? I don't know. It changes every day. I think we paid 379 last night. Yeah, no, it changes every day. We're in Florida. I can't imagine what is in Oregon, where they get taxed so much. Costco used to be like, you'd go drop 200 bucks, 250 bucks, and I'd be like, what the hell did you spend? Now it's five, $600. And it's like, what? It's the same stuff. It's the same stuff. I'm not buying anything. I mean, once in a while at Costco, I might get a pillow. But no, you know what I mean.

Now it's five, $600. And it's like, what? It's the same stuff. It's the same stuff. I'm not buying anything. I mean, once in a while at Costco, I might get a pillow. But no, you know what I mean. In general, it's the same stuff. Okay, so then bring that down to a lower, like Publix, you know, a Target, Walmart. It's all double, tripled. And that is where people are just getting killed. Because you still have to feed your family. You have to, people need to eat. So for breadwinners, men or women, breadwinners going through this. And it could be both partners or one partner. Talk about stress. So the stress of making sure that as these prices go up, your family still gets what they need. It's gotta be astronomical at times. Yeah. You know, and it can affect, if you don't take care of yourself, it can affect your health, your mental health, your physical health. I think that's why so many people right now are feeling just the way they are. Because I think it's affecting them mentally and physically. It's just too much. It's too much stress. I think what it is, it's just relentless. It's relentless. And it's compounding and it's relentless because maybe two people need to work. Then you do wanna have kids. And now two people have to share in that child rearing, right? And all the costs and the scheduling, everybody's over scheduled too. No matter what it is, whether it's kids activities or your own interest, whatever it is, there's always something going on. It's never just a constant noise in a sense. No, it's true. But I think then you throw on how expensive everything is. Yeah, yeah. And it's just, but I think relentless is a great word for it. And I'm sure coming from it, from the financial aspect of it, it feels more relentless now than ever

expensive everything is. Yeah, yeah. And it's just, but I think relentless is a great word for it. And I'm sure coming from it, from the financial aspect of it, it feels more relentless now than ever and figuring stuff out. Yeah. Yeah. Being the person that's responsible for that. Yeah, it's just, we've outsourced most of America, right? If you call AT&T, cause your internet connection's down, it is not someone sitting in Portland, Oregon where I got my career started, right? I started in outsourced tech support for US West. That was based in Portland, Oregon, Beaverton, Oregon. It was all American workers. When you call anybody now, it's offshore. And the reason it's that way is for inexpensive labor. That's part of what's happening. So it's really got an impact on young people. If you do wanna think about getting married, if you do wanna think about starting a family, all of those things, it's just relentless. Yeah, and I think that's part of why right now feels crazier than probably ever. Even though, like I said, when we were in the 80s and 90s, it was crazy. There was wars, there was a lot going on and we still made the leap and got married and had the hope and wanted to create a family. And I still encourage people to do that today cause I know it feels crazy. I think your underlying message is still on point. And that's if you find your person, there's always gonna be stuff going on and you can still proceed to move forward. Live your life. It's always been a challenge. It's never been necessarily peaches and rainbows or whatever for everybody, but it just kind of is what it is and you just move forward. Yeah, so even though right now is crazy and expensive and nuts, if you found your person,

or whatever for everybody, but it just kind of is what it is and you just move forward. Yeah, so even though right now is crazy and expensive and nuts, if you found your person, just keep working on it together, things will get better and you will do it. It always feels hard. It's hard building a life together, but it's so rewarding and that's where you build the marriage and that's where you find the joy. And so even in these times, I encourage people obviously have your conversation about your roles, but then put your noses to the grindstone and start working on that life together. And don't be ashamed if you're starting off in a small little teeny tiny house or apartment somewhere, that's how it's supposed to go. That's really the first step in building this life together. You do not need to have all the things. All right, so I have a question. Is there anything you would do differently or really, is there anything you would do differently? No, I would have. I'm glad I got married as young as I did. I'm glad we had children starting pretty much within a couple of years of getting married. Um, you know, I think actually the only thing that I would have done more of is go to continue to see live music a lot more. We did see a lot of live music. We took the kids to live music. I would have kept going to festivals probably more, just you and me, that's it. The thing I would do different is through all the chaos, I would have tried to get away more just the two of us. We did not do that. We were so close with a family union tied together and it's wonderful, but I probably would have tried to go away once a year, just the two of us, even if it was to see a concert, like a music festival or something,

family union tied together and it's wonderful, but I probably would have tried to go away once a year, just the two of us, even if it was to see a concert, like a music festival or something, like where we spend a couple nights away. So that's the only thing, but there's nothing bad that we didn't do that, but looking back, now that we're doing it again, I'm like, I wish you would have kept doing this, but life got crazy. Once your kids are in sports, it's so hard to get away. And all of our kids have been in sports, but I probably would do that. I would say try to get away a little bit, just the two of you a little more, that would be my advice. What about you? Actually, I think that's a great answer because I was thinking I don't know what I would do differently. We should have stayed more in touch with our musical roots and attended live music far more often than we have. Yeah. You know, it was that one time, I think it was, what was it, like 2000, or whatever it was, we went to Gathering of the Vibes for the 10 year, it's 2005, the 10 year anniversary of Jerry Garcia celebration at Gathering of the Vibes. That was amazing. It was. And I remember thinking, oh, we should have been doing this more. There's people still doing this. Yeah, it wasn't concerts, because we kept doing that. It was more going away, and just the two of us. But again, it's challenging, it's hard, it's expensive, even if it's once every three years. Doesn't should be once a year, but we should have pulled ourselves out more and gone and done stuff like that. Other than that, no, I have zero regrets. I don't even regret that, but I have no regrets, and I think it's been a wonderful 30 years. And like I said, I'm looking forward to the next 30 years.

Other than that, no, I have zero regrets. I don't even regret that, but I have no regrets, and I think it's been a wonderful 30 years. And like I said, I'm looking forward to the next 30 years. The only other thing I wish I would have done is invested in Microsoft, Apple, and Oracle. Those three stocks have done, you know. I'm sure you're not the only one that feels that way. No, but I would say it's been a great 30 years. And marriage is a wonderful thing, and being a parent is a wonderful thing. It can be, but you have to work at it. But it takes work. You have to grow, get the growing change, and have some humility, and be willing to accept it. Just change, grow up. Grow up. If you wanna have an authentic, close relationship with your partner, if you really wanna be close, then you do, it takes work. And there's gonna be bad times. It does not mean you get divorced. It doesn't, because it's gonna get good again. We're here to say that. I hope. You hope, you hope. Anyways, thank you for listening, and we encourage all questions, comments, anything, if you wanna share any of your own experiences. We've got a budding fan base. We really appreciate it, and love the comments we get. And yeah, it's cool. Yeah, so thank you for all the support so far. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. (upbeat music)